11:00 pm October 6, 2011, by David O'Brien
October 9th, 20111:45 am
How do you think the Braves are going to afford Quentin, Ward?
Ward High Hopes back
October 9th, 20111:48 am
Contract extensions,and some tinkering here,and there.What else? They can do it,and I believe Wren, has more money than he’s leading on.Good question Big Jake……..
October 9th, 20111:52 am
Bourn’s salary makes it hard to get a guy like Quentin.
I wouldn’t be overly surprised if our starting 8 is the same ones that we finished with.
And I’d do it in this order: Bourn/Chipper/Freeman/Uggla/Mac/Prado/Heyward/Gonzo
October 9th, 20111:55 am
Let’s, just see what Wren can do. I’m going to be patient,and wait?
October 9th, 20112:00 am
I’ll be back later…….
October 9th, 20112:02 am
We had plenty of power. I do not see that a bopper like Quentin is our biggest need. Plus I agree with DS1 that the line up will not change all that much.
October 9th, 20112:35 am
If we can’t get a Reyes? I like Marco Scutaro-.299 average,OBP.358,Slug.423,and OPS.781…..Not bad at all. That would be great pick up. Could do some hit,and run…..
October 9th, 20112:40 am
I like this idea a whole lot. He can bunt runners over,and bunt to get on. Did we ever see agon do that? Iwould talke a contact hitter way over agon.
October 9th, 20112:45 am
Well it’s bee cool,and talk tomorrow. Starting to misspell again……..peace out……
October 9th, 20113:23 am
October 9th, 20114:30 am
October 9th, 20114:56 am
Scutaro has had two decent years, the rest of the time he was a well below average hitter.
and although he is pretty versatile he is not a particularly good shortstop.
There is also an option in his current contract IIRC.
oh yeah .....
October 9th, 20117:28 am
Freedom Of Speech my friend. In the Constitution,and leave it,as that.
What the hell does that have to do with freedom of speech? ESPN ain’t the government. Say whatever the hell you like, but your boss can always tell you to get the hell out whenever you say wacky stuff that hurts their business. Was it an overreaction by ESPN? Yeah, sure, but you can’t go around saying crazy crap like that without worrying about losing your job if a consumer hears you and complains to your boss. Has anyone ever taken Hank Williams, Jr. seriously anyway? Not like he’s ever been a deep thinker or lyricist. He makes fun, tough, bold, braggadocious, crowd pleasing party music that most folks love. He is who he is. Never been one to show much complexity of thought like his daddy. Always sold out trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Or maybe he always was the lowest common denominator intellectually and was just keeping it real. The reality is ESPN didn’t can him because of the comments. This song had long ago become tired schtick that needed to be replaced. ESPN had been trying for years to find a way to get rid of it or replace it. He finally said the dumb thing he needed to say to justify ESPN to wag their finger, and express all types of holier than thou faux outrage. In reality, ESPN was thanking the heavens that Hank, Jr. did them a huge favor with his stupid mind and mouth, and allowed them to do what they’ve been itching to do for a long time.
Go a Go Go Marlins
October 9th, 20117:51 am
Cf Bonafacio, Lf Morrison, Ss Ramirez, 1b Fielder, Rf Stanton, 3b Sanchez, C Buck, 2b Infante
October 9th, 20117:54 am
Even if the Marlins do get a player like Votto or Fielder, they have a lot of questions with Hanley and Johnson. I don’t see them going far without those two playing/pitching like their normal selves.
October 9th, 20118:05 am
Neftali Feliz hit 101 mph on the stadium gun last night……
October 9th, 20118:10 am
In 2013, assuming the Braves pick up the options for Huddy and Mac, the Braves have a guaranteed 34.2 million owed to Uggla, McCann, and Hudson. In terms of arbitration eligible players:
Third year arbitration: Jurrjens, Prado and O’Flaherty
Second year arbitration: Medlen
First year arbitration: Hanson, Heyward, Venters, Conrad, Martinez
October 9th, 20118:28 am
I previously said the D-Backs would be one of those teams that are on the way down, but wow, they probably have the best and deepest pool of pitching prospects in the majors: Bauer, Skaggs, Bradley, Parker, Holmberg.
With all the young pitchers in the pipeline, I think it would be a mistake to re-up Hudson. Cutting loose Hudson saves budget and puts a younger arm in the rotation.
The Braves already have two high priced older players in decline: Lowe and Chipper.
Barring a poor 2013, I can’t imagine the Braves parting ways with McCann.
October 9th, 20118:32 am
Read an evaluation on our 2011 draft class the other day saying that a lot will depend on how RHP J.R. Graham turns out. Reliever in college, but the Braves moved him to starter. Short kid, but big arm strength.
October 9th, 20118:34 am
It’s beyond beautiful that the almighty Phils fell to the resurgent Cards. Again, as bad as the Braves’ Big Stumble was, Wren, Gonzalez, and company should thank their lucky stars that the Red Sox took a dive and that the Phils superior pitching staff couldn’t handle the Cards.
The northeast media is all over the Red Sox tanking and Philly’s fall. The Braves aren’t quite the story anymore in light of the those two franchises crashing.
October 9th, 20118:40 am
With all the young pitchers in the pipeline, I think it would be a mistake to re-up Hudson. Cutting loose Hudson saves budget and puts a younger arm in the rotation.
Unless he bombs in 2012, I can’t see why we wouldn’t pick that option up. Need some veteran depth and a pitcher that can go into the 7th/8th innings. I’d rather pick up his option and trade Jurrjens off of a solid 30 start year(hopefully). I hope they work out a two year deal after 2012 for Huddy if he repeats or close to repeats his 2011.
He’d have to really, really bomb for that option not to be picked up. I see the Braves working out a long term deal with him after 2012.
October 9th, 20118:45 am
Ryan Braun says Jose Reyes is more likely to be a Brewer than Prince Fielder in 2012. Wow. Why do these things come out during their run for the World Series? Oh well.
October 9th, 20118:49 am
Hudson turns 38 in 2013. Tim keeps himself in good shape, so maybe he’ll still be on his game. But most players are starting to decline in the their late thirties. Again, with the young talent coming along, I think Wren looks at making space for them in the rotation rather than possibly excluding one of them for an aging, high priced vet like Hudson.
Jurrjens. Tradeable, as you say, Efrim, IF he avoids yet another season of injuries. I’m not so sure. But hope Jurrjens gives the Braves 30 solid starts next season.
Concerned about Hanson. Used to discount criticism of his delivery and its potential for arm/shoulder trouble. I’m not doing so anymore. Hanson needs to find a way to modify his delivery without compromising his effectiveness. If not, then I think he’s going to have more shoulder/arm trouble ahead.
October 9th, 20119:20 am
Braves need a new strength and conditioning coach and to bring back Leo and Camp Leo if they want to stay healthy and win.
October 9th, 20119:39 am
Efrim – You might want to check that – Jurrjens and Prado are only second year arbitration eligible.
October 9th, 20119:40 am
Excuse me – missed the 2013 comment. It’s still early. Might need surgery for brain stiffness.
October 9th, 20119:44 am
all of you with so much faith in frank- he keeps the worst manager in braves history- and then- rumor has it he is out searching the garbage dumps to replace sherrill linebrink and proctor– with hoffman- arthur rhodes turns 42 jamie moyer– like 46- wren say he can get them on the cheap- and maybe bring back smoltz– for the pen- as far a s a hitter jermaine dye– ss– barry larkin and he syas next year if the pen needs help in september- he will still refuse to add to the roster with the likes of gearrin, ascenciso– like he did this year and if he has some bats in the minors again next year he will refuse to bring up the likes of ramirez, gattrell, and gomez like he did this year
Newspaper headline up here in New England this weekend about the Red Sox collapse – “Sox Lose!, Sox Lose!, Sox Lose!
October 9th, 20119:50 am
No douibt the braves were done in by a lack of minor league hitters
billmaier – KInda incoherent post Dude.
October 9th, 20119:52 am
All I can say is that the Phillies should have been more concerned with the Cardinals playing a 163rd game, than playing so hard for 13 innings to beat the Braves! Careful what you wish for!
October 9th, 20119:56 am
I agree about Huddy and McCann, I see the Braves trying to work a extension out with McCann before picking up the 13 mil option tho. We still have a whole season to go before this comes up so anything can happen
October 9th, 20119:59 am
10 more wins. Right
In the bag
October 9th, 201110:06 am
@Robert….. 100% correct about “Careful what you wish for!”….
Phillies thought they were a shoe-in to beat Cards.. Got that a s s punked in short series…
No matter what some so called experts say (pompous bloggers, know-it-alls) they collapsed and choked….. No situational hitting, swinging for the fenses,etc. …..
Congrads to the “Dawgs” for surviving a tough environment in Knoxville last night…
Still have the SEC East in sight …….
Predict a win in JAX, Lamecocks get punked again….
Congrads to Clemson for impressive run in ACC ….
fsu ‘CrimoNOLES’ show they are what we thought they were .. OVER-RATED and outta here.
October 9th, 201110:12 am
Robert & correct in the same sentence?
Take it to the bank
October 9th, 201110:15 am
Lew, no prob. Medlen is the guy I’m not sure about. Almost positive he will qualify for Super 2 and Hanson won’t. At least it looks that way based on their service time.
October 9th, 201110:21 am
Yep the phillies should have channelled satchel paige and pulled their outfielders off the field
No sure it would have changed the outcome
Robert, good post. I am so happy the Phils got beat. Not so easy to win in the playoffs. They have gotten better talent wise, and are losing earlier in the playoffs.
October 9th, 201110:24 am
I’d love to see Hudson retire as a Brave. Probably have to get him through 2014 for that to happen. I believe that’s his age 39 year old season. All depends on his performance, obviously.
October 9th, 201110:46 am
Efrim -= If Medlen were to qualify for Super Two, wouldn’t it have happened prior to the 2011 season?
October 9th, 201110:48 am
Or if not, how can you be a Super Two after having missed an entire season?
October 9th, 201110:49 am
Did you catch Dawgs/Vol game?
October 9th, 201110:52 am
Have to wait and see, but I’ll keep guessing Wren’s had enough exposure to older, higher priced players whose performances don’t well reflect their lucrative contracts (yes, Chipper and, most assuredly, Lowe).
Hudson moves into the danger zone in his late thirties (as I mentioned earlier, most players do). Why take a rotation slot from a younger, talented, less expensive hurler for Hudson? Veteran experience is nice to have but not at too high a price (and not just in terms of dollars).
In theory, by 2013, Hanson and/or Jurrjens provide the veteran experience that the rotation may benefit from. Stay tuned.
October 9th, 201110:54 am
bat masterson yep boscan the only choice of the bench with runners on in the one run loss to l.a–
October 9th, 201110:56 am
IVAN – That I did. Nioce to a. actually get to see a Dawgs game and b. See them win one, too.
Hope those two Freshmen Crowell and Mitchell are OK. They both looked like the real deal, though at times it looked like a Rastafarian party – especially when they were getting penalized on every play.
October 9th, 201111:03 am
Anyone here know why I might not be able to get to the second step downloading adobe. Says error 1719. Thanks.
October 9th, 201111:11 am
I think time spend on DL is counted as service time still.
Brave New World
October 9th, 201111:12 am
Last few lines from article in Philadelphia Inquirer today: “Where do they go from here? That’s the hardest part. In the movie The Verdict, Paul Newman said, “This is the case, there are no other cases.” For the Phillies, this was the year. There may not be any better years. The pitching staff will continue to make them a contender, but age and injuries are wearing them down.
Polanco is on dead batteries. Even if surgery puts his insides back together, it may take him half a season to get back to full strength – just as it did for Ibanez, who had the same surgery.
Will Utley be any healthier?
Will Jimmy Rollins even be signed?
Will Ryan Madson be back?
Left field will be a platoon with Mayberry and Domonic Brown. Will that be enough to stimulate the offense?
There is one tradable player on the whole team, and the Phils may need to pull the trigger on Victorino to bring a couple of players in return. Maybe we’ll have a better focus next week, when we’re not so sick.
Let’s do the Phils a favor and take Victorino off their hands for Lowe and Chipper. Victorino is the type of player the Braves need and we get rid of almost $30 million in payroll. Chipper can platoon with “DL soulmate” Polanco, and Lowe can take Oswalt’s or Madsen’s place.
October 9th, 201111:14 am
It’s amazing how your computer will run fine and as soon as your warranty is about to expire, your start having problems.
October 9th, 201111:15 am
Brave New World
That last part your being sarcastic right? lol
October 9th, 201111:25 am
It is considered service time, but does damned little to boost the performance that qualifies you as a Super Two. Besides – Medlen was brought up early enough in 09 (Hanson wasn’t) that he had two years in after the 2010 season.
I just don’t see how he would qualify.
October 9th, 201111:30 am
Today has probably been the friendliest that I have viewed the blog in a while. Have a good day and keep it going.
October 9th, 201111:31 am
I dont know much about it.
October 9th, 201111:33 am
VaBRaves – It’s one of those topics like Options that are so convoluted, hardly anyone understands them. I really don’t know either – at least past knowing that time on the DL DOES count as service time.
October 9th, 201111:37 am
Team seems to be better than last couple, multiple flags on drive (3rd and 57?) was comical but almost scary…
Funny, when Richt first came to UGA, dreadlocks were no longer than edge of helmet..
They have made a drastic improvement on personal foul penalties which is good..
Defense looks good, Crowell likes to come out of game frequently, Malcom Mitchell hopefully will get past hammy soon….
Let’s hope trip to Jacksonville is a good one….
October 9th, 201111:39 am
I like the idea of the Braves finding a real LF that is a force at the plate and moving Prado to his best role which is Super Sub. He will get plenty of playing time spelling Chipper, Uggla, Freeman and the new LF. He’s great insurance in case of an DL stint for any of those 4 positions and even protects us incase Heyward needs a day off against a tough lefty. It would be great to get a SS that is really talented defensively but also someone who handles the bat well and can at least advance runners and draw walks as a tough out. With the right hitting coach this team should hit much better than last year. I think we need to trade JJ and/or Hanson as soon as they re-establish any trade value once they show they’re healthy. They’re both Boras clients and future health risks I say we get as much as we can for them and move on. Maybe we can get a young 3B, SS or OF prospect in return for each. Medlin will be a huge lift next year and Beachy and Minor will be better from this years experience. Delgado is real and Teheran and Vizcaino are real close to being ready.
October 9th, 201111:44 am
Speaking on McCann’s option year: he has the same agent as Chipper and has the same loyalty. I would think his option will be restructered and extended.
What will they do with Hudson?
Does anyone think Brandon Hicks will get a shot at the SS job?
October 9th, 201111:47 am
Also not to be negative because I’m a huge BMac fan. But are his eyes ok? He seemed to be squinting in every at bat at the end of the season. He also had a lot of passed balls that touched his glove. He seemed to almost never square up pitches that were center cut that he used to hit 10 rows deep in the bleachers. He was fouling them off or hitting weak fly balls like he was JUST missing them. Makes me wonder if he was seeing the ball clearly or struggling with vision issues again. Could his weight be contributing to the vision issues?
October 9th, 201111:49 am
VaBravesFan October 9th, 2011 11:15 am Brave New World
VABravesFan: Yeah, sure.
October 9th, 201111:57 am
“Could his weight be contributing to the vision issues?”
Okay, that’s new.
October 9th, 201112:00 pm
Whi is it that McCann does not try to go the other way. It seemed he used to when he first came up.
Is David Ross signed for this coming season?
October 9th, 201112:06 pm
In 2013 Wren may not be here. Hopefully Liberty won’t and Hudson can stay or go with no ill effect.
Fredi may not get fired this winter (he really should with Francona sitting there for the taking) but I don’t see him getting extended. Fredi is a rebound manager similar to a rebound relationship.
You fill a void with something familiar until you get your head screwed on properly and realize the person who left you was not good for you. Then the rebound person gets the broom.
I think both Wren and Fredi play out their contracts or get canned at the end of year 2 barring an NLCS appearance and or win.
JS says almost nothing (in his role) but this letter, however placating, has more meaning for people who work below JS than ATL fans IMHO.
Similar to Del Rio in Jacksonville it can be construed as – if this (under performance/collapse) happens again I will remove the root cause.
After all JS hand picked Wren and I don’t think he is feeling really jazzed about the results even if he advised Wren on some of his earlier moves. I think this is 100% Wren’s team and they are not getting it done.
The Braves are a corporation more than a ball club at this point and that is what happens. Two bad fiscal years (so to speak) and heads role.
October 9th, 201112:09 pm
Could his weight be a vision issue? Not unless he’s diabetic and having diabetic retinopathy.
And his weight is really not an issue. I’d bet that he’s not even overweight. Wish that’s all the fatter I was.
October 9th, 201112:11 pm
I think it’s about time that everyone realized that any difficulties McCann had at the end of the season were a direct result of that oblique injury. It was further around towards his back and made following through on both his swing and his throws much more difficult. It’s the reason he wasn’t centering pitches and the reason his throws all sailed on him.
And the oblique had nothing to do with his weight.
October 9th, 201112:14 pm
But they haven’t had two bad fiscal years, or even one for that matter.
October 9th, 201112:15 pm
And as to Francona – Didn’t his team just collapse just like the Braves did – only with twice the payroll?
October 9th, 201112:16 pm
You’re no fun Lew
October 9th, 201112:20 pm
Bat – Just keeping it real.
Re: Francona – How did he fail with the team they put together? And how could he NOT be successful with a team that has spent well in excess of a billion dollars since he became manager – of a team that was innings away from a World Championship to begin with?
October 9th, 201112:35 pm
Just how badly will the falcons embarrass the packers tonight?
October 9th, 201112:44 pm
More than the effeminate men in your favorite beer commercials.
October 9th, 201112:48 pm
Make that innings away from going to the World Series.
McFann O O o
October 9th, 201112:49 pm
Music Man on TCM!!!
October 9th, 201112:50 pm
That’s right. It’s going to be the Falcons
versus the Packers
October 9th, 201112:51 pm
Gee, thanks for pointing that out. Not like VJ doesn’t watch it every time it’s on!
October 9th, 201112:52 pm
Gonna make ‘em cry, huh, jeffrey.
Woildn’t surprise me if the pack forfeited
October 9th, 201112:59 pm
By the way, Greinke 11-0 this season at Miller Park.
Oh, you’re welcome! I figgered you’d be wanting to know…
October 9th, 20111:00 pm
Bravo Nam: Thanks.
October 9th, 20111:15 pm
Jaguars v Bengals
Man, it just does not get much better that this
October 9th, 20111:24 pm
Latest Mastodon album The Hunter is no Leviathan (nor Blood Mountain), but it is still a great hard rock album. I highly recommend it for you metal-head/hard rock types. Its probably a bit more accessible than their older stuff.
October 9th, 20111:29 pm
I guess it depends on if Medlen accrued service time this past season. He was at 1.137 prior to the start of this season. So if he accrued it fully, he’d be at 2.137 and therefore possibly eligible for Super 2. Here is the rule:
(2) The top 17 percent of players with at least 2 but less than 3 years of Major League service. These are known as “Super 2” players. To qualify as a Super 2, a player must have accumulated at least 86 days of service in the previous year. Historically, the cutoff point for Super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service, though the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days in years past.
October 9th, 20111:30 pm
Nice play, AJ
October 9th, 20111:41 pm
Buster Olney Blog
Can the Reds afford to keep Joey Votto?
And market value for an MVP-caliber first baseman like Votto just keeps going up: Ryan Howard will be making $25 million a year for the next five seasons; Mark Teixeira makes $22.5 million annually; Adrian Gonzalez $22 million; and soon enough, Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder will join that salary neighborhood. Votto will make $9.5 million next season, $17 million in 2013 and then after that, he will cost the Reds something in the range of $22-27 million a year.
Cincinnati had a payroll of $73 million in 2009, $77 million in 2010 and $80 million last year, so Votto’s 2014 salary — after his next big deal — would probably represent something in the range of 30 percent of the Reds’ entire budget.
The math is stark. The math is almost impossible. Maybe that’s why executives with other teams are getting the distinct impression that the Reds will be very open to offers for Votto, in the way that the Kansas City Royals were open to offers for Zack Greinke early last fall.
“They’re not going to be out there shopping him, like they’re going to dump him,” said one high-ranking NL executive. “But they will listen. I don’t think they think they can keep him.”
It’s worth reviewing just how great of a player Votto is right now. He won the NL MVP in 2010, and in 2011, with pitchers working to him like he was a Barry Bonds clone, Votto didn’t hit for the same power this year. But he still managed to accumulate a .416 on-base percentage and a .531 slugging percentage, for a .947 OPS. He continues to be one of the sport’s elite offensive players. And he’s an excellent first baseman.
If the Reds don’t believe they can pay him, then history tells us that the best window to deal him will come between now and July 31, 2012. If they wait, his trade value will drop significantly, as it did with Fielder as he neared free agency.
The Reds have a first baseman in waiting in Yonder Alonso, and if Cincinnati can get two or three really good prospects from one of the teams for which Votto would be a fit (Seattle Mariners, Toronto Blue Jays, Florida Marlins, San Francisco Giants, Los Angeles Dodgers, Los Angeles Angels), now could be the best time to move.
It will be excruciating for Reds to trade Votto, an excellent home-grown player who really cares about getting better. But as a business decision, it’s a no-brainer.
October 9th, 20111:47 pm
Emmylou Harris does great cover of this as title cut on her fine new CD, but Ron Sexsmith original is even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK0qyDespPc
Remember when they had kickoff returns in the nfl.
Yep, those were the days
October 9th, 20111:49 pm
DOB, what are your thoughts on the new Wilco album?
October 9th, 20111:50 pm
I think Toronto makes a lot of sense. Votto is a Toronto native and they have a Top 5 farm system and can offer the Reds a lot for Votto.
October 9th, 20112:02 pm
DOB: once more, thanks for the stellar work this season. Just don’t ever think you’re giving us too much info, or your new blogs are too long. For those of us out of the ATL market, reading about the team is like giving water to a parched desert-dweller.
Ok, back to catching up on the comments. I stayed away since the debacle but am emotionally stable enough to read once again.
October 9th, 20112:05 pm
Now that FIRE LARRY PARRISH has had Christmas come early for him this year, does anyone know what his new name is for the next season? How ’bout ‘cha, FLP, come in…….come in……..
October 9th, 20112:15 pm
“In 2013, assuming the Braves pick up the options for Huddy and Mac, the Braves have a guaranteed 34.2 million owed to Uggla, McCann, and Hudson. In terms of arbitration eligible players:
Third year arbitration: Jurrjens, Prado and O’Flaherty
Second year arbitration: Medlen
First year arbitration: Hanson, Heyward, Venters, Conrad, Martinez” EFRIM
And if Chipper retires and they don’t re-up Bourn, they’d have holes either 3B or LF, CF, and SS.
October 9th, 20112:27 pm
Braves 1B prospect Joe Terdoslavich is 5-for-8 w/ 2 doubles, 1 BB after two games in Ariz. Fall League
October 9th, 20112:50 pm
DOB, what are your thoughts on the new Wilco album? GoBraves123
Really like it a lot. My favorite of theirs since Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.
October 9th, 20112:51 pm
Good stuff. Going to be interesting to see him, Simmons and Cunningham in Double-A next year.
October 9th, 20113:01 pm
It’s okay to have to fill two holes going into 2013. Especially with their pitching depth if it holds up health wise. They could end up trading Jurrjens or Prado, or both. Maybe one of the Latin Trio or Minor. Who knows? But they’ll have plenty of flexibility and like I’ve been saying, it’s okay to have two holes in a lineup going into an offseason. That’s what free agency and the trade season is for.
Possible 2013 lineup: 3B Prado, RF Heyward, C McCann, 2B Uggla, 1B Freeman, LF, CF, SS Pastornicky. SP Hudson, SP Hanson, SP Beachy, SP Minor, SP Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino. RP Kimbrel, RP Venters, RP EOF, RP Medlen, etc.
October 9th, 20113:02 pm
Buffalo Bills 28 – Phi Eagles 7.
When they called it a “Dream Team”, did they consider the alternate meaning?
October 9th, 20113:03 pm
Braves catcher Brian McCann nominated for Hank Aaron Award
Even as he encountered struggles this year, Brian McCann seemed to be the one who provided the big contribution when the Braves needed it the most. Because of this, he has been chosen as Atlanta’s nominee for this year’s Hank Aaron Award.
October 9th, 20113:10 pm
No, but they’re setting themselves up for the mosts overused headline since “Brave New World”
October 9th, 20113:11 pm
i’m glad that turd sandwich guy is doing well.
October 9th, 20113:12 pm
Disaster initial five games. Might cost Andy Reid his job at the end of the season if they don’t make the playoffs.
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