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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
5,810 comments Add your comment
McFann O O o
October 8th, 2011
4:55 pm
abwright I thought the east was the bomb this year?
Oh, we bombed all right…
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2011
4:56 pm
Frustrated for the fans in Atlanta but think how the Phils feel after winning 102 games and not sitting at home
That’s a good point…if I had to pick, I don’t really know which one is worse.
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
4:59 pm
Are you serious jeffrey?
89 Wins and a historic September collapse.
A smooth ML best 102 win season, NL east title and a playoff series loss.
I’d go for the 2nd option every time.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:00 pm
Phillies have added Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt, Hunter Pence and finished worse and worse from 2009-2011. Ah, the postseason. Crap. Shoot.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:01 pm
jeffrey d, put me down for the Phils way to go out.
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2011
5:02 pm
A smooth ML best 102 win season, NL east title and a playoff series loss.
I’d go for the 2nd option every time
But it’s the same results…Braves and Phils are both sitting at home right now. I understand that 102 wins is quote the accomplishment, but higher hopes hurts more when you fail.
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2011
5:04 pm
I think that’s why so many people “ballgame!” games on here. If you set your hopes/expectations low, you don’t have as far to fall.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:05 pm
2011 International League Top 20 Prospects
2. JULIO TEHERAN RHP, GWINNETT BRAVES
After moving their top prospect through three levels in 2010, the Braves let Teheran polish his game in the IL, with a couple of one-game detours to Atlanta in May. The youngest player in Triple-A on Opening Day, he ran away with league leadership in wins (15) and finished runner-up in ERA (2.55).
The lanky Teheran gets nice downward plane on his pitches. His fastball typically sits at 94-95 mph, running as high as 97, and he commands it well to both sides of the plate. His plus changeup is his best secondary pitch because while his curveball has gotten sharper, it remains inconsistent.
“He mixes his pitches very well, throws quality strikes,” Syracuse manager Randy Knorr said. “He just knows how to pitch.”
A tremendous competitor, Teheran has outstanding poise and an advanced approach to setting up hitters, trusting his secondary pitches enough to throw them early in the count. As dominating as he was at times, he’s not a finished product and seemed to wear down slightly as the season progressed, posting a 4.04 ERA in the second half.
8. MIKE MINOR LHP, GWINNETT BRAVES
The seventh overall pick in the 2009 draft, Minor rocketed through the minors and reached Atlanta barely a year after signing. The Braves summoned him four times this season, and with each recall his progress was notable, particularly with his breaking pitches.
Minor’s lively 91-93 mph fastball and his changeup give him two plus pitches, and he can add and subtract from them to keep hitters off balance. He learned during his big league trials that get-me-over breaking balls weren’t going to cut it, so he dedicated himself to refining his curveball and slider. He generally does a good job of throwing strikes.
“Those third and fourth pitches are now better, crisper,” Brundage said. “He has more of a plan where he wants to throw those pitches.”
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
5:10 pm
If you set your hopes/expectations low, you don’t have as far to fall.
This looks a bit like a quote from Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes)
So the secret to good self-esteem is to lower your expectations to the point where they’re already met?
To which I am going to reply with another Calvin Quote:
That’s the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn’t good enough for me! I demand euphoria!
But in all seriousness – the expectation is not set high because of what I feel, but because of what the FO and lineup does.If I were Philly fan, when the FO goes and gets me 3 aces, I cant help but expect a good result. Arent Playoffs like a minimum expectation one can have for a good team (not the Pirates or the Royals)?
abwright
October 8th, 2011
5:11 pm
Braves’ FO seems aware of the fan anger and disappointment. I tend to agree that they will make changes just to make changes.
They don’t have the scratch to make wholesale changes. They have to make a move at SS, and I doubt they go with the rookie and hope.
I wouldn’t be shocked to see a move in the outfield (LF or RF). Probably a trade.
The bullpen actually looks pretty good, so I doubt that a veteran like Sherrill or Linebrink get signed.
I look for a rotation of Hudson, Hanson (if healthy), Jurrjens (if healthy), Beachy, and Medlen.
I think Minor will go in an off-season trade to bring back an OF as soon as the health of JJ and Hanson is certain.
Otherwise, Delgado, Minor, Teheran lie in wait in AAA until someone on the starting five has an injury.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
5:14 pm
Better to make the playoffs and lose that not make them
UKUGA
October 8th, 2011
5:16 pm
Wren has commented in the past that you look for young guys to become consistently productive (not his exact words, but that sentiment) in years 3-4. With Heyward only beginning year 3, and Freeman essentially in year 2, I doubt he flips the switch on Pastornicky next year, especially with the reality that Chipper will miss a lot of games (It’s a given) and McCann lacking the ability to carry a team for an entire season (he has to sit out some, too, just b/c of the position he plays).
One thing we might be missing in all of this, is just how bad our lead-off production was the first 6 weeks, or so, of the season. With Bourn in the line-up from day 1, we won’t have all the questions marks, and should get better than fair production out of that spot in the line-up much more quickly than we did in 2011.
carney johnson
October 8th, 2011
5:17 pm
i just read that letter from schuerholz. i’d believe it more if they took the one obvious step to make this a better team and hire francona. not doing that just makes it seem like more of the same thing: words.
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2011
5:20 pm
I don’t know if hiring Francona is the “obvious” move….he just led his team to an even bigger collapse than Fredi
bravesfaninNashville
October 8th, 2011
5:27 pm
I like Franks comments about getting more athletic and faster as a team. I also love the comments about becoming tough outs. I couldn’t stand watching Chipper and Heyward stand and watch strike three come right down the middle and not even try to swing at it. I want to see a smart, scrappy team that never gives up and finds a way to beat you no matter what.
carney johnson
October 8th, 2011
5:32 pm
even wren called francona “one of the most respected managers in the game.” it comes down to this: would you rather have francona or fredi? i mean, let’s say we cut fredi some slack for the september collapse. a year ago, before we hired fredi, would you have rather had francona or fredi? it’s simple; obvious even.
abwright
October 8th, 2011
5:32 pm
“I want to see a … scrappy team that never gives up”
I couldn’t put my finger on it all year. That’s what the Braves were missing. They weren’t scrappy enough.
I’m pretty sure they were gritty enough, just not scrappy.
Can they lure Ryan Freel out of retirement?
abwright
October 8th, 2011
5:34 pm
McFann O O o, October 8th, 2011, 4:55 pm … “Oh, we bombed all right…”
And then we got bombed.
Lew
October 8th, 2011
5:39 pm
Bitched out yet again by a douchey moron who can’t see that he lacks any semblance of sense.
.Imagine going through life referring to yourself as Luke Warm. Barely Tepid is closer to the truth
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:49 pm
I’ll take first round exits. I just want to make it back there with some semblance of a healthy roster. See if we can win it all.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:51 pm
Matt (Scranton): What do you think of Julio Teheran’s ceiling-is he an ace or a very good #2? Is it time to worry about a K rate lower than most top pitchers?
BA’s James Bailey: I’m going to go with a very good #2 guy, but that’s using a definition of ace = elite #1 starter, of which not every team has one, so there are fewer than 30 true #1 starters in the majors. For the first half of the season he was phenomenal. I think he wore down a little in the second half, and at his size, durability may be a factor. But he was just 20 years old all season, and in the first half he was nearly untouchable in a league stocked with plenty of hitters who have spent significant time on big league rosters. His fastball and changeup are his two best pitches right now. The curve just isn’t consistent enough yet, though it has gotten better. I think if/when that becomes sharp enough to use as a chase pitch, his strikeout rate could climb. He knows what he’s doing out there, he just needs to keep working on a couple things.
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
5:53 pm
Can they lure Ryan Freel out of retirement?
Check with his agent, DS1.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:53 pm
Keith (Manchester, CT): Thanks for the chat, James. How concerned are you about reports that Teheran’s curveball isn’t developing? Is his future in the pen? Does he start 2012 back in Triple A ?
BA’s James Bailey: Not that concerned given his age and maturity. If he can’t figure it out he could go to the pen, but I’d be reluctant to start viewing a 20-year-old with his stuff as a reliever when a little patience might reward you with a frontline starter. He could wind up back in Triple-A, given their depth. Minor and Delgado are fighting for spots too. They won’t have 3 openings.
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
5:55 pm
“He mixes his pitches very well, throws quality strikes,” Syracuse manager Randy Knorr said. “He just knows how to pitch.”
A tremendous competitor, Teheran has outstanding poise and an advanced approach to setting up hitters, trusting his secondary pitches enough to throw them early in the count.
He knows what he’s doing out there, he just needs to keep working on a couple things.
He knows what he’s doing out there, he just needs to keep working on a couple things.
Multiple comments from folks who think he is an intelligent pitcher. Good to hear.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
5:59 pm
I’m still not sure it makes sense for the Reds to trade Joey Votto. But if they decide to move him, I think it makes sense for the Marlins, Nationals, and Blue Jays to have interest. Given their new found payroll flexibility. Imagine a Stanton/Votto 3-4 in the Marlins order. Or Bautista/Votto.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:02 pm
I could care less if people don’t think he is an ace. I’ll take a strong #2. That’d make the Braves have like 3 strong #2’s and a #1 in my opinion. Provided they are all healthy.
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
6:04 pm
How concerned are you about reports that Teheran’s curveball isn’t developing? Is his future in the pen? Does he start 2012 back in Triple A ?
The reason some young prospects can’t throw 3 or 4 pitches is that they never needed more than 2 to dominate whatever level they were playing in. Especially guys with a mid 90’s fastball with good movement. They may have only been throwing two pitches their entire life up to a year or two ago.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:05 pm
I’d love for the Braves to have some payroll flexibility after 2012. As much as I like Michael Bourn as a player, I’d probably pass on an expensive extension even if the Braves don’t have a replacement in the minors.
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
6:05 pm
That’d make the Braves have like 3 strong #2’s and a #1 in my opinion.
I’m assuming that a healthy Hanson is the #1.
Who are the 3 #2s? JJ, Teheran, and.. (Delgado/Beachy).
Zenman
October 8th, 2011
6:07 pm
Calvin & Hobbes, what a treasure! You have inspired me to open one of the many books I have on this rain filled day in Fl.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:08 pm
I’m assuming that a healthy Hanson is the #1.
Who are the 3 #2s? JJ, Teheran, and.. (Delgado/Beachy).
Hudson. Him, Jair and Teheran – #2’s, Hanson – #1.. But that’s Teheran’s ceiling, whereas the others are already there. I think Hanson’s loss in the rotation is huge. Interested to see another full year from Beachy. If he can maintain those strikeout rates, he’s got quite a higher ceiling, imo.
Doc Holliday (Freeman our go to guy)
October 8th, 2011
6:11 pm
Efrim,
Cards are 6-2 against Cards last 8 games………If you are the best, you win when it counts, if not, you are just very good.
Being the best might involve more than just number of wins, I think.
Cards have showed just that, heart, spirit, hunger, showing up when it counts, Phillies in the other hand, just ran out of gas. Look at their record for the last 3 weeks including NLDS.
8-12 to end the season……..then 2-3 in the NLDS
10-15 last 25 games, thats .400 winning percentage last 25 games played………..best team?
They deflated just like Braves and Redsox did.
Doc Holliday (Freeman our go to guy)
October 8th, 2011
6:15 pm
Phillies played better than .500 baseball against every team they played but:
1. SEA 1-2
2. WAS 8-10
3. Yeah, the CARDS 3-6
So it might not be just luck. Including NLDS Cards were 9-5 against PHI, not intimidating, but Id say domination.
nolie
October 8th, 2011
6:17 pm
whatever you need to think to make you feel better TnB
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:17 pm
Cards are 6-2 against Cards last 8 games………If you are the best, you win when it counts, if not, you are just very good.
Anything can happen in a 5 or 7 game series. It is not indicative of the best team, in my opinion. How could it be? We play 162 game seasons.
How about treating it like the English Premier league in European Football. Everyone in two leagues no divisions playing balanced schedules for 162 games. That’ll show you who the best team is. Large sample sizes. Playoffs are for the fans. Fun to do it that way.
Doc Holliday (Freeman our go to guy)
October 8th, 2011
6:18 pm
Phillies were 12-6 against Braves and FLA and 11-7 against NY, interestingly the NATS won the season series, impressive.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:19 pm
Aliens on AMC. Good stuff.
IVAN ...
October 8th, 2011
6:20 pm
.
Doc Holliday (Freeman our go to guy)
October 8th, 2011
6:20 pm
Efrim,
Cards showed during the season and in the playoffs that they are the better between the 2………They played 14 games and Cards dominated.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:23 pm
Then why did the Phillies win 12 more games than them in the larger sample of the regular season? Were the Tigers better than the Yankees? Yankees crushed them during the season, if I recall correctly.
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
6:26 pm
How about treating it like the English Premier league in European Football.
If that’s the case it needs to be spiced up like in football, where they allow for relegation and promotion. Plus the winners, runners up etc have UCL berths to play for. That cant work in baseball, because you’ll end up with too many teams playing meaningless games in September.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
6:30 pm
Bring back the reserve clause.
No divisions
NL winner V AL winner in the World Series
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
6:37 pm
Who is the heavyweight chanpion?
What happened to boxing?
Bring back Ali
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
6:39 pm
Snotboogie, I think the way they do it is the most fair. 38 games. 2 games each vs. the other 19 teams in the league. Balanced schedule. Just my opinion.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
October 8th, 2011
6:40 pm
Speaking of “Aliens,” there’s a brief cast reunion video on the Entertainment Weekly website:
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/10/07/aliens-reunion-newt/
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
6:40 pm
Wow – Joe Pa about to get his 2nd win in 10 attempts against Ferentz’s Iowa.
Good stuff.
Couch Tater
October 8th, 2011
6:42 pm
How about treating it like the English Premier league in European Football. Everyone in two leagues no divisions playing balanced schedules for 162 games. That’ll show you who the best team is
Ha! NL vs. AL in the 7 game Word Series for the whole Enchilada.
I like it! Call Fox and Bud! Just like 1968, Bob Gibson vs. Mickey Lolich.
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
6:42 pm
Efrim
Totallly agree that it’s fair. I like the system a lot because it doesnt leave too much room for debate – the other extreme from NCAA Football.
Just commenting on its compatibility with baseball.
IVAN ...
October 8th, 2011
6:44 pm
fsu (ranked #22?) gets their a s s punked by lil ‘Wake Friggin Forest’ ????
Are you f-in kidding me? ? ?
flow-rida gayturds another joke.
And Tek escapes a defeat with Merry-Land …………
Congrads to the Clemson Tigers who keep showing they are not a fluke …….
35-30 Demon Deacons……. The ‘Criminoles’…. they are what we thought they were……
PALP, BABY……….. LMAO.
Snotboogie
October 8th, 2011
6:46 pm
Iowa scored an average of 38 pts per game till today and were held to a FG.
Sweet.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
6:46 pm
There ya go, mickey lolich 3 wins in the 68 series.
IVAN ...
October 8th, 2011
6:47 pm
———————-:D———————
ncgary
October 8th, 2011
6:48 pm
i miss braves baseball in october
but i do have a busy october so dont have to waste a lot of time
watching
theres always next year
or is it?
lol
Kat
October 8th, 2011
6:53 pm
Heading out to see Wanda Sykes.. if I can’t watch post season Braves ball than seeing a stand up show is the next best thing.
Couch Tater
October 8th, 2011
6:53 pm
There ya go, mickey lolich 3 wins in the 68 series
…and, 3 hits in 13 PA’s with 2 RBI’s. Ain’t no DH in baseball!
oops! RBI ALERT!
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
6:53 pm
The dawgs playing to save richt’s job again today.
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
6:53 pm
Still an ass I see, Ivan.
You sure aren’t impressing anybody with your silly vendetta.
Any number of bloggers have said so.
What are you, about 15 emotionally?
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
6:55 pm
Yeah I’m all for getting rid if the DH. Either you are a baseball player or you arre not
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
6:58 pm
Have fun, Kat
Wanda sykes is a funny woman
Kat
October 8th, 2011
7:00 pm
Bat M..
I saw her in 2004 so it’s been a while.. I’m excited for a night of laughs.
bravo_fan fifty-three
October 8th, 2011
7:01 pm
howard out till may or june
Couch Tater
October 8th, 2011
7:02 pm
Kat – Be sure video Wanda’s responses to your heckling.
bravo_fan fifty-three
October 8th, 2011
7:04 pm
Bayou bengals ate some Gator tail today wow GO DAWGS
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:04 pm
Can georgia play a complete game anymore? Good football for 60 minutes?
I’ll believe it when I see it
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
7:04 pm
Yup, I hear ya SB. I like that they add Champions League for that tournament format.
We make the September 2007 Mets look like 1927 Yankees
October 8th, 2011
7:04 pm
It’s been 16 years since we won a World Series, 15 years since we last won a World Series game, 12 years since we were last in a World Series, 10 years since we last won a playoff series, 6 years since our last division title…and one playoff appearance (Wild Card in 2010) the last 6 years.
We have pretty much regressed as a franchise. We were lucky to make the playoffs in 2010, because San Diego had their own collapse in September of 2010. The Cardinals made us pay for our tendency to choke in September this year.
I see nothing changing when it comes to 2012. Fredo Gonzalez is a Booby Cox clone….he’ll do nothing to change our “business like, robotic, playing the same whether we have won 10 in a row or lost 10 in a row, lack of a sense of urgency” approach…as well as do nothing to hold individual players accountable for their lack of production and deliver in crunch time (wait, my bad….there is no difference between an at-bat in the first inning…..and an at-bat in the bottom of the 9th inning with the game on the line…because playing with a sense of urgency is fictitious nonsense).
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:07 pm
Itook no satisfaction in seeing howard falling and getting up trying to run. he has had ankle problems for a couple of years now, right?
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
7:08 pm
mickey lolich 3 wins in the 68 series.
I couldn’t remember what year was Denny McLain’s career year, but it was 1968. He was 31 – 6 with 28 complete games and 336 IP.
Do you think he would come talk to our starters this spring and tell them what it’s like to pitch into the 6th inning?
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
7:08 pm
I believe in Wren, but I have serious doubts about Gonzalez.
I wish they had dropped him too.
IVAN ...
October 8th, 2011
7:09 pm
@ BravefaninBC (or who ever you are at the moment)……..
An ass? Silly vendetta? Whatever.. Glad you come to the front as spokesman(or woman) of the group with your opine…
15 emotionally? ….
DON’T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MOST HERE, YOU SEEM TO BE AN EXCEPTION ……
Have a great day , what’s left…. hat.
IVAN ...
October 8th, 2011
7:10 pm
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
7:10 pm
Do you think he would come talk to our starters this spring and tell them what it’s like to pitch into the 6th inning? @Key Largo
Didn’t he just get arrested again lately?
They might have to take the team to go see him.
bravo_fan fifty-three
October 8th, 2011
7:11 pm
Snapped achilles out till maybe june thats tough on him
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
7:13 pm
I am hardly the only blogger who has said that you are and idiot my friend.
We can’t all be the same person.
Unlike you, not everybody switches names all the time.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:13 pm
Keylargo__
Maybe, is mclain out of prison?
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
7:19 pm
BFinBC – I haven’t heard of anything new but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. Can you imagine how much Boras could get for McLain coming off of a 31 win season though?
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
7:22 pm
BFinBC – I’d bet there aren’t 10 pitchers in baseball that have won 31 games in the last TWO years.
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
7:24 pm
31 wins and 28 Complete games? You are right, Boras would think he was in heaven.
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
7:25 pm
Here’s the latest on McLain’s legal problems.
http://www.freep.com/article/20111004/NEWS01/110040401/Charges-against-Tigers-great-Denny-McLain-dropped
Couch Tater
October 8th, 2011
7:25 pm
Bummer.
DETROIT — Louisiana authorities on Monday dropped a bid to extradite former Detroit Tigers star Denny McLain, major league baseball’s last 30-game winner, for trial in a dispute over a scrap metal sale. – October 3, 2011, AP
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7056334/louisiana-drops-bid-extradite-ex-tiger-denny-mclain
Couch Tater
October 8th, 2011
7:26 pm
Key – I copied more, so technically I won.
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
7:28 pm
OK, I concede.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
7:29 pm
Phillies would play John Mayberry Jr. at first base if they lost Howard. Dom Brown in LF. Still be a really good team. Although if they lose Rollins and play that Galvis kid at SS, the losses of both Howard and Rollins would leave that offense pretty vulnerable.
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
7:30 pm
It looks like Denny lucked out this time so I guess we could invite him to talk to the team.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:39 pm
Those “un-manly” commercials are really stupid. If I drank that beer I wouild quit on general priciple
Bring back spuds mckenzie
T for Texas
October 8th, 2011
7:40 pm
If this continues, [Howard] is going to be swinging like A.Gonz by the end of his contract with the Phils.
And then the only thing the Phillies can take solace in is how many runs he saves with his glove.
T for Texas
October 8th, 2011
7:42 pm
Hey, how about those Longhorns today?
Couch Tater, I wish I had seen your earlier post about the Musburger drinking game, coulda used that one today.
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
7:46 pm
carney johnson
October 8th, 2011
7:46 pm
auburn has two number fives in this game. a linebacker, holland, and a running back, dyer. is that legal?
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:49 pm
Nice line on howard, T.
How did the longhorns do?
I have not been keeping up today
T for Texas
October 8th, 2011
7:51 pm
OU 55 Texas 17, Bat. Texas has 53 Sophomores and Freshman on squad.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:51 pm
Good grief murray.
Couch Tater
October 8th, 2011
7:52 pm
T – I post that when the Sooners made it to 33. I figgered you needed a smile or a shot.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2011
7:53 pm
Yikes T.
I guess the kids are getting some experience.
T for Texas
October 8th, 2011
7:53 pm
‘preciate it, Tater.
keylargo
October 8th, 2011
7:58 pm
Bat
Do you remember all the Miller Lite commercials with ex athletes from the 70’s? Here’s one with Boog Powell and an umpire named Jim Honochik.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8c6Ir2okLY
T for Texas
October 8th, 2011
7:58 pm
Boy the college football ranking system is flawed. Texas certainly not 11th best team in the country.
Efrim
October 8th, 2011
8:00 pm
Matt Gelb has a pretty solid article on the Phillies after the loss:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/A-postmortem-stream-of-consciousness.html
BraveFaninBC
October 8th, 2011
8:04 pm
I can’t get to that link Efrim
T for Texas
October 8th, 2011
8:10 pm
Cole Hamels is a free agent this offseason?