4:06 pm September 28, 2011, by David O'Brien
Lee in S GA
September 29th, 20118:42 am
Well at least i can sit back, relax and just pull for whomever the Yankees and Phillies are playing throughout the playoffs. To see both of them elminated before making iteto the W.S. would just about save the rest of the season for me.
September 29th, 20118:45 am
the braves gave up a bigger lead than the sox. The only reason it is not considered worse is because we never led our division. But if it had not been for the phillies being ahead of us then our epic debacle would be the talk of town.
It really should be considered one of the worst failures ever.
So the wrap up. Disappointed in the Braves. But they are a young team. And hopefully they’ll be in the thick of it year in, year out.
Disappointed Pujols finished an RBI and a point shy for his 11th straight 100 RBI and .300+ average season.
Super excited for my dirtbag Longoria for disposing of both the Yankees and the BoSox in a swing of the bat. (i know the yanks are in the post season, but they lost that game).
September 29th, 20118:46 am
How did Jurrjens do in his instructional start? Will he be available next week for..
September 29th, 20118:49 am
It was a pleasure doing battle with you guys this season.
I was actually relieved last night when it was finally over…the torture can finally stop now. Should be a fun offseason though. Braves should be one of the busier teams on the trade market.
Most opinions expressed today on the blog are irrational emotionally driven opinions from unqualified individuals. Engaging in conversation with these individuals could be detrimental to ones health…. proceed with extreme caution. Reader discretion is advised!!!
September 29th, 20118:50 am
CB – I have typed numerous serious posts. Just didn’t hit “submit comment.”
FRankie – Yeah, he should be available for trade.
September 29th, 20118:52 am
afan…”the braves gave up a bigger lead than the sox.”
Not true. The Red Sox had a 9 game lead. The Braves had a 8.5 game lead. Yes, they were up by 10.5 over the Cardinals at one point, but the Giants were 8.5 back at the time. So in the record books, it will go down as a 8.5 game lead squandered. Not that it matters, but national media is talking more about the Red Sox than the Braves, at least we have that to console us Braves fans.
September 29th, 20118:54 am
well we would think that the braves would be busy this off season but all we ever hear is about how great the players we have are… GO figure….
September 29th, 20118:56 am
Good Morning everyone. How’s everyone on this beautiful morning?
September 29th, 20118:57 am
Lemke’s – Yep, those massive crashes tend to get more media attention after spending $162 million to accomplish it.
September 29th, 20118:58 am
Lew- Braves luck. JJ, could have dealt him for the sky but now he’s a Brave for awhile.
September 29th, 20118:59 am
Lemke: I can agree with that.
1. Chipper, the offense cost this team a lot more than Craig Kimbrel did. Still only put 3 on the board last night. I understand that they were in a position to win the game,. but Kimbrel and Venters performed like that because they were having to constantly pitch becase our offense couldn’t score enough runs and we were always playing in close games.
2. Buster Olney on Mike & Mike in the morning, when asked about the Braves and questions heading into the offseason, brought up Derek Lowe and how they may just let him go given his terrible September performance. And of course, said that many in the organization are questioning whether Jason Heyward will ever develop. And perhaps it’s time to cash in on him because of his youth, and trade him this winter.
September 29th, 20119:00 am
Well, it looks like we’re going to see what the front office is all about this off season. There will be some serious questions needing answers.
September 29th, 20119:01 am
So who do you guys think will be gone next year?
September 29th, 20119:02 am
Even though Braves lost, I have a great B-Day gift with my Rays winning
It’s a tough loss, but this is a very talented team, with a lot of young players that I know will bounce back. I don’t think Fredi can be blamed for this collapse. I think it squarely falls on the hitters of this team. Not the bullpen. Not the starting rotation except for one pitcher. Every hitter except for Freeman and Chipper, underachieved. That’s the bottom line.
September 29th, 20119:04 am
Frankie – I don’t know. With Lowe’s untradeability, the need for more salary room and Hanson’s injury, I could make a case for it going either way with Jurrjens.
September 29th, 20119:05 am
I loved seeing the fire in Bourn when he was called out at third. The announcers say it was because he came off the bag, well just because he comes off the bag doesn’t automatically mean he’s out, they still have to tag him. And, contrary to what they were saying, the third baseman never put a tag on him after coming off the bag before he got back on the base. You still must tag him with the hand that holds the ball.
Also loved the image of Hudson getting fired up in the dugout on that double play.
P-Town Brave ©
All I can do is shake my head….
I mean I am right with Dan Uggla….I was a bit choked up over all of this and I wasnt even playing….
Down with the ship til the bitter end….
And while I’d like to look at things positively, this team proved over that last month that it has as many holes in it as swiss cheese, and thats why they couldn’t win the Wild Card.
Personally, I don’t even know where they’ll start, but I am very intrigued as to what goes on.
September 29th, 20119:07 am
Transplant – The problem is that the questions that need to be answered – Can Prado and Heyward come back, can Mac stay healthy enough to make it through the entire season, can Chipper put up the same numbers again, can Hanson come back and can Freeman maintain are questions that the front office really can’t answer.
No one significant will be gone and no one significant will be added.
I expect a offseason full of complaining about the lack of moves made.
Lew, I hate to say it but the only true value we have for trade besides our young guns is probably Hudson.
September 29th, 20119:12 am
Going forward, trying to use what the Braves have in place to teach this team how NOT to choke is like getting driving lessons from someone who has wrecked 3 cars in the last 3 months.
First let me say that watching the games last night was the most incredible baseball has been in, well, too long to remember. Unfortunately the Braves were on the short end in one of them. While “The Choke” will be remembered as easily as Sid Bream’s Slide at least it didn’t catch any of us by surprise. We were resigned to our fate. As I mentioned over the last week or so, playoffs or not, this is not a championship team. Championship aspirations, yes, team…no.
So where do we go from here? Not sure but I feel confident of the following. Parrish will not be retained. Ditto just about any pitcher tagged as middle relief except Vavaro. Not sure Roger will make it back. If it was my decision I would can him for the tirade and black eye he gave the organization early on. The pitching went south. If you are firing Parrish because the hitting went bad you got to fire Roger for the pitching regardless of injuries. Nobody will miss either coach. Fredi will be back. He seems more like a college coach to me though. The stage this year seemed a little big for him. Taking over for Bobby and having it end like this may have been cruel but he will learn from it.
As for the players, no question Gonzalez is gone. The Pastor will probably take over or we will acquire someone for SS. Conrad certainly is gone. Hate it really but this year sealed his fate. Wilson won’t return. Hinske is questionable. Constanza definitely back. Ross back.
Frank Wren said his pitching is in place for 2012 with the young studs we have plus what will be coming up. His words. I read this as Lowe is 100% gone and JJ ain’t far behind. JJ may be back but definitely not Lowe unless he is pitching in Mississippi. With Hudson, Hanson, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, and Teheran there is absolutely no place for Lowe. Eat a bunch of money and get rid of him. No other option except Mississippi.
Rock on……DOB and Carroll, thanks very much for a phenomenal blog effort again this year! Wish the ending was different.
I dont know who would risk on Hanson. They guy could be hurt bad.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. a go!)
September 29th, 20119:13 am
Dear Larry Parrish, nice knowing ya. Now get to work on that resume…….
September 29th, 20119:14 am
“No one significant will be gone and no one significant will be added.
I expect a offseason full of complaining about the lack of moves made.”
And the fans will continue to support the system. The people on the blog that make excuses for the team will continue to make excuses and the ones on the blog who complain no matter what will continue to complain no matter what.
Next year, the Braves will be more of the same.
September 29th, 20119:15 am
Not going to mourn all day here and time to move on. Will say though, can anybody who watched the game be at all surprised by the outcome? Freeman double and not advancing, Pence gunning Uggla. No way did you think everyday Jonny was going to get them 1,2,3 and of course Kimmie. Absolutely inevitable that outcome happens.
Oh well, will see what happens next year. EOF outstanding year! Venters and Kimbrel great years and FF very encouraging freshman season and build the lineup around this guy starting next season. Uggla should be more consistent and love the guy’s character, glad he is on the team. Prado and B Mac need to rebound and feel horrible for Prado. Lost and absolutely no confidence but the guy will bounce back, he’s a good hitter. Learned a new position as well we tend to forget. B Mac, wow tough end. Play Rossy more next season to keep this guy fresh next September. Heyward, need him and jury is out. Not sure about AGon but won’t be disappointed to see him back. Bourn, good pickup excited to see him all year and he had a great game yesterday, good to see.
Chipper, hall of famer. He can help this team next season in a totally different role. Freeman is the man and Chipper can contribute but bat him 6th. Quit talking especially about why he rather hit third in the lineup and accept your role next season. He can help this team and still a really good hitter, not the guy though anymore. Make the transition starting today. Pitching looks solid. Fredi gets a C-, had to overwork Venters and Kimbrel early or they lose many games and yesterday probably is a meaningless game. Did a better job in the second half with the bullpen. Beachy as your #2 guy, kindof tough with the injuries down the stretch. He blew it will Prado at 2 and maybe Constanza hitting at that slot a couple of games but whatever. Get them next season. Oh yeah, scapegoat will be Parrish and he will be gone.
Take care Brave fans.
It is embarrasing to be a Braves fan today.
Someone in the organization will have to pay the price. And it will probably be Larry Parrish-”hitting” coach. That’s OK with me.
The offense went from a high OBP team in 2010 to one of the worst in 2011. No hitters, except AGon, hit well in September.
Final slash lines for the 2011 season(regulars):
C Brian McCann .270/.351/.466, 124 OPS+ in 527 plate appearances
1B Freddie Freeman .282/.346/.448, 118 OPS+ in 635 plate appearances
2B Dan Uggla .233/.311/.453, 109 OPS+ in 672 plate appearances
SS Alex Gonzalez .241/.270/.372, 76 OPS+ in 593 plate appearances
3B Chipper Jones .275/.344/.470, 123 OPS+ in 512 plate appearances
LF Martin Prado .260/.302/.385, 89 OPS+ in 590 plate appearances
CF Michael Bourn .294/.349/.386, 104 OPS+ in 722 plate appearances
RF Jason Heyward .227/.319/.389, 95 OPS+ in 454 plate appearances
Mid Town Joe
September 29th, 20119:16 am
Wow. The good news the Braves didn’t have to kiss their sister.
September 29th, 20119:17 am
A Bomb GONZALEZ: “Danny got, what, 35 home runs , did something no [second baseman] had ever done before.”
Uh….Fredo….. ever hear of DAVEY JOHNSON?
freddi could have been refering to the hitting streak.
veer So where are Fredi’s answer as to why they pitched to Pence with martinez on deck?
Didn’t any reporter had the balls to ask that question?
linebrink answered that one.
jeff r The Braves sputtered last September and collapsed this September. Dumb luck, or is something more structurally wrong with the Braves?”
i honestly think being a young team has a lot to do with it. braves are quite young at almost every position.
After a 13 inning game, they would have been toast in St Louis tonight.
it would have really helped out bullpen to have had Medlen for the whole year. Medlen is solid!
September 29th, 20119:18 am
I still like this team going into next season. Moves I’d like to see…
- Trade Lowe for whatever you can and pay whatever part of his salary you need to get him off the roster.
- Trade Jurrjens, hopefully for someone impactful that can play left field.
- Sign Bourn to a long-tem deal. You don’t come across guys with his skill set very often.
- Stay on the 1-year deal with Prado. Let’s see how he follows up this season before considering a long term deal.
- Send Larry Parrish on his merry way. I don’t even know what this guy looks like, which should tell us all something.
- And now the tricky one…I’d like to see Chipper become a player-coach next year. Ask him to opt out of his current contract, sign a less expensive one-year deal as a utility player and hire him as the new hitting coach.
- McCann, Prado and Heyward all had terrible seasons, but these guys are all good ball players and should bounce back next year. As I mentioned, it’s time for Prado to be the regular third baseman. I have a thought that part of his offensive woes may have been related to playing outfield.
- Opening day rotation of Hudson, Hanson, Beachy, Minor and Delgado
- Bullpen of Medlen, Martinez, Vizcaino, O’Flaherty, Venters, Kimbrel plus one.
2012 will be a very good season.
Dadgum……I don’t know about Gonzo. While I love his defense and solid offense, his age next season (35) and recent injury problems have me on the fence. However, quality major league short stops don’t grow on tree’s. So maybe Gonzo gets a one or two year contract extension, maybe.
September 29th, 20119:19 am
wow. it says a lot about our pitching when no one on our team hit above 300. For that matter most on our team didnt bat over 250
September 29th, 20119:20 am
About how I feel this morning, courtesy of Gondee…
I’m pretty sure I’m past denial, that was the immediate jaw-dropping moment that lasted for several innings last night, and several minutes of stunned glaring immediately after the game was over. Anger was pretty easy to get to, and I’m probably still a little angry. The Red Sox helped me get past bargaining pretty quickly, and while I sympathize with the “Nation,” I really appreciate that the Braves are not alone in this collapse.
I currently find myself in the midst of the fourth stage of grief, depression. Really I’ve been waffling between the first four stages for the past couple of weeks, as the Braves showed us the slowest most painful way to rip off a gigantic band aid.
We all saw this happening, in our worst fears of this season we saw it coming to this. The shots of the stunned Braves players sitting on the bench after the game, trying to piece together what had happened. I kept thinking of the post game quotes for the past two weeks, and the recycled optimism that was so pervasive among all the players and coaches. “Just got to take care of business.” Clearly that’s easier said than done.
There will be plenty of people who assign blame, but I’m too depressed right now to assign blame to any player or coach. A collapse like this is a team effort, just as the Cardinals rise was a team effort that can’t be attributed to any one player. I blame circumstance more than anything. The team’s best two starting pitchers were lost to injury for much of the last half of the season, and half of the starting lineup in the last month of the season probably should have gone on the DL, but played through their injuries.
This will be tough for a few days, and I’m not going to sugar coat any problems, and I don’t expect anyone else to. I’m just not ready to deal with those problems yet.
Acceptance will get here eventually, but it’s going to be an angry acceptance. Now I know how Mets fans must feel. Yuck.
September 29th, 20119:21 am
2012 will be no different unless we get some hitters.
I just woke up this morning and I had this horrible nightmare that the Braves blew an 8.5 game lead and lost the WC. It was just a bad dream, right….?
September 29th, 20119:22 am
Lemke’s Knuckler Trade Jurrjens, hopefully for someone impactful that can play left field.
Been reading this kind of ignorance for three years running…….keep it up!
“Buster Olney on Mike & Mike in the morning, when asked about the Braves and questions heading into the offseason, brought up Derek Lowe and how they may just let him go given his terrible September performance. And of course, said that many in the organization are questioning whether Jason Heyward will ever develop. And perhaps it’s time to cash in on him because of his youth, and trade him this winter.”
Many on the blog have been questioning if Heyward would ever develop all season! Good to hear that some of the so called “experts” are questioning it as well!
Preach it brother!!!
My first order of business would be to fire Fredi. I mean, I like the guy personally but someone has to be held accountable and that usually starts with the coach.
September 29th, 20119:24 am
50 years from now my grand children will ask me where was I at during nuclear meltdown Wednesday? I will tell them the tale of watching 3 different heart attack inducing ballgames. I will tell them that a little part of me died when Scott Linebrink was left in to face Hunter Pence. I will tell them I was crushed when Freddie hit into a game ending double play. This wasn’t supposed to happen I will remind them; the Braves were supposed to be the 2nd best club in the National League and were to make noise in the 2011 post season. I will say all the right things, it was team loss that night; no need to point fingers, but I will never forget yelling at my TV begging and pleading to Fredi as if it was really going to make a difference to please take Linebrink out of the game. I will tell them about the Baltimore and Red Sox game that fallowed the Braves’ epic nuclear meltdown. I will be honest and say a little part of me felt better when millions of Boston fans shared my pain of missing out on the post season after the Orioles and Rays came back in stunning fashion. I will tell my grandchildren that it was the most wild and thrilling night in baseball. Forget about being a fan of one team, the perfect storm came together last night and I consider myself lucky having witnessing baseball nirvana that will never be matched again. To the winning teams, they felt the highest of highs after a win, and to the losing teams, they felt the lowest of lows; no emotion inbetween. Now we are left wondering what if and how did this happen? This wasn’t supposed to happen.
September 29th, 20119:25 am
Another Braves season comes to a close, thanks to many of you bloggers who keep it interesting on there daily.
Can’t even speak right now, this season among all of our end of year failures….this one seems to sting the most. It was right there in their face for an entire month and all I heard out of their quotes was filler. Nobody took control, nobody said anything to stir the pot. Same old Braves tippin hats as others win exciting baseball games. This team needs a new heart-beat that can perform in any situation. A new leader, new identity.
Looks like we’ll have a very young pitching rotation for a few years so hopefully that comes with finding some new.
Seeing Freeman fall off pace was disappointing but the kids going to be a stud. Kimbrel should bounch back but closers are such odd delicate humans…as much as they SAY he brought them here, that’s on a closer to finish the job.
Main concern, we need Mac back to his old self or this team has way too many issues in the heart of the order. Uggla and Freeman are strike out machines. Mac and Chip have to just be solid and stay healthy.
As for Prado….sorry but he’s just not a LF……and he looked every bit the part of a utility player again. His struggles puzzle me the most.
Exact opposite of last year…..our bench saved us last season. This year, I don’t recall Hinske or Conrad doing much of anything…..Jack Wilson was the worst pick up i’ve ever seen. Then again I hadn’t even heard of the guy before we pick him up and he’s playing in the biggest game of the year bootin balls? GET HIM OUT.
I won’t get started on Lowe. He’s not worth the effort of typing. Although fitting on the largest stage we have Linebrink in the game. I didn’t even realize he was still an option he’s been avoided so much lately. Can anyone pitch 2 innings anymore?
I can’t see us dumping our skipper…just not the Braves way, they’ll lay blame on a batting coach. Whoopy Doo.
Sad day, embarassing moment as a fan. Might as well box up everything with a Braves logo cause I sure as hell won’t be caught dead wearing any of it this off season.
Here’s hoping we bring in a pulse this winter. They sure need it.
Have a great off-season!
September 29th, 20119:26 am
September 29th, 2011
Yes it will, Parrish won’t return and an epic collapse like this one won’t repeat itself. 2012 will be different, how different? only time will tell but we won’t see another 2011.
September 29th, 20119:27 am
Enter your comments here
September 29th, 20119:28 am
The injuries to Hanson and Jurrjens seemingly aren’t getting enough attention.
September 29th, 20119:29 am
Many on the blog have been questioning if Heyward would ever develop all season! Good to hear that some of the so called “experts” are questioning it as well!
Which is why nobody listens to the SO CALLED EXPERTS….Heyward is going nowhere.
September 29th, 20119:30 am
Whoop (September 29th, 2011 12:43 am): “I do know Prado’s not an everyday player and that 2010 was a fluke.”
Sems to me that your “literacy” and ability to operate a computer are much bigger flukes than Prado’s 2010 season. Billions to one, in my estimation.
Does your Mom boot it up for you?
Lowe Down Dirty Shame
Nobody is going to give the Braves squat for Lowe. If the Braves release him, they have to eat 15 mil.
Here is what I would do. He used to pitch out of the pen and knows the drill. I would tell Lowe that he needs to prepare himself to go hard for an inning out of the pen because that will be his role next year. Middle relief. Moylan is out for next year and surely Linebrink won’t be resigned. The fact is you need bodies in the pen and everyone isn’t going to be “Oventbrel.”
Who knows, if Lowe is only throwing a couple of his pitches and throws hard and only for an inning, he may just be effective from the pen, especially if he knows that’s his role and prepares for it in the off season. He’s been there, done that.
The Braves are gonna have to pay him, may as well try him in that role. What’s the worst that could happen? He turns into Scott Proctor?
Shaun, those injuries didn’t cost us the game. It’s been the offense all season. No matter how you spin it, injuries to our pitching staff didn’t do this… the young guys did great in filling in.
September 29th, 20119:32 am
it was a good run up until this month. While there are problems that will be addressed, I look forward to the 2012 Braves! We have a great group of young guys and they are not going to want to experience the feeling they felt last night again. What a crazy night in baseball last night! It should have never had come to last night. I don’t think they would have had a chance tonight after playing last night. I can’t wait to jump on the Diamondbacks bandwagon! Can’t wait for spring training!!
September 29th, 20119:33 am
September 29th, 2011
The blame game is just getting under way, when in fact….injuries are part of the game and the finger pointing toward Roger McDowell is unwarranted.
Interesting that Fredi refused to answer why he chose to pitch to Pence and not Martinez
The problem with Lowe out of the pen is that he gets shelled early now….then he somewhat settles in.
I still say the best way to run him out of town is to stick him out there on his off days and leave him to dry. Literally make him suffer through all 9 innings no matter what it’s doing to his ERA. Either way the Braves take his starts as an off day……..so let him pitch till his arm falls off.
September 29th, 20119:34 am
“Heyward is going nowhere.”
You’re right on two counts. The Braves are not going to trade Heyward until he proves he isn’t going to live up to the hype. They did the same with Francouer. They kept him until he had no value, just like the will with Heyward.
You’re right as well on the statement…. “Heyward is going nowhere.”
He really isn’t.
we have several pitchers for next year. somebody is gone. we all hope lowe is one of them.
heyward could be traded but could also be a good bench guy to learn more. But i just dont see him becoming what they thought. the guy has an ugly swing and just does not put forth the effort.
the ball he supposedly lost in the lights. did you see Hudsons face in the replay. I think heyward was loafing.
September 29th, 20119:35 am
Miscalculations…..I am most confident that I am light years closer to being a baseball expert than Mike & Mike. No great expert but closer. Having said that, I am most confident that the Braves have no vision of trading Heyward in the near future. Now, if he bats another .230 or something next year then all bets are off. They aren’t trading a guy coming off a sophomore slump but you can rest assured Parrish will be fired because of it in particular. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Parrish fired by Friday. Hell, I’d do it today. Why wait.
September 29th, 20119:36 am
The only thing good that came out of this Fish Bisch stays and George leaves.
“No one significant will be gone and no one significant will be added.
I expect a offseason full of complaining about the lack of moves made.” – Crazy
This, because it’s the Braves Way. They’ll continue to run Heyward, Mac, Parrish, Fredi and others back out there and expect different results. Some call that insanity.
Jack Wilson was the worst pick up i’ve ever seen. Then again I hadn’t even heard of the guy before we pick him up and he’s playing in the biggest game of the year bootin balls?
Because you have never heard of him, it automatically means he’s horrible.
Actually Jack Wilson is a fine defensive shortstop. Not the same as he was a few years ago but still very good. Plus the only reason he’s playing is because Alex Gonzalez got hurt.
September 29th, 20119:38 am
If Buster Olney’s report is true, it’s scary that there are people in the Braves’ organization that don’t understand the limitations of judging players with an over-reliance on batting average.
Frank doesn’t have the stones to do such a thing
“The problem with Lowe out of the pen is that he gets shelled early now….then he somewhat settles in.”
Fols, you are right. It may not work with Lowe. Just saying if you have to pay him, I would give it a shot. Besides, a pitchers approach preparing to go deep into games and preparing to only go one inning is usually different. I was just thinking preparing to go one might allow him to work harder with more intensity.
But in the end you could be right. It could be an utter failure.
September 29th, 20119:39 am
And its scary that you think a .230 batting average is good anywhere on this planet….
Big Nate McLouth fan huh?
September 29th, 20119:40 am
Where are all of the bright-eyed & bushy-tailed “defenders” this morning?
Besides conspicuously absent.
Braves ended up 10th in runs scored in the NL at 3.95 runs per game.
13th in batting average
14th in on base percentage
10th in slugging percentage
Irrational suggestions about what the Braves should do this offseason on day’s like today are prime examples why some people pick up garbage and clean office buildings for a living and others work in ML front offices.
What? And leave the tool shed empty?
September 29th, 20119:41 am
Disappointed last night, sad this morning. If I had opportunity to speak to any of the players in person I would say thanks for a great season, for giving it your all. And I would clap, give a standing ovation. No booing from this fan.
September 29th, 20119:42 am
Congrats, CB – I see you edged jd out for the title.
September 29th, 20119:43 am
Ease, we still have plenty of those to choose from.
September 29th, 20119:44 am
And of course, said that many in the organization are questioning whether Jason Heyward will ever develop. And perhaps it’s time to cash in on him because of his youth, and trade him this winter.
hmmmm, suppose they’re all racists then, right? Only a racist could ponder such a question.
I think it’s a good sign the team is looking at him and maybe planning a contingency. I hope Heyward comes back next year and carries on like we all initially expected him to. But I think what would be the worst for this team would be the front office not having any plan in the event he doesn’t. It’d be like, well, the rest of the outfield.
Alright since you don’t like the Braves way make a logical suggestion of a realistic significant move the Braves should consider this off-season.
I don’t consider firing Larry Parrish a significant move if that’s one of your suggestions.
I said this back in August when Constanza was getting playing time, and also when Matt Diaz was traded for. Jason Heyward has a short leash in this organization. When you perform as well as he did as a rookie, and then follow it up with a stinker, people are going to question whether the player will ever develop and reach his lofty expectations.
Deep down, I don’t believe they trade him. But I absolutely believe that they are questioning whether he’ll ever develop and reach his expectations. With the hole in his swing low and in the size of NYC, I think it’s fine if people within the org/ are concerned whether it will be corrected. However, I agree that it’s a little sad that the people who drafted him, saw him rake in the minors, and post a .393 OBP in his rookie year, can’t take a breath and realize that there is more potential in him than anyone else on the Braves roster, imo.
September 29th, 20119:45 am
P-Town, no, I don’t think a .230 batting average is necessarily good or necessarily bad. It all depends on the on-base and slugging of said player or team. Batting average only takes into account hits in non-walk, non-sac plate appearances. It ignores walks. It ignores total bases. And, if you want to go further, it ignores ballpark and the run value of walks and each type of hit. But I wouldn’t be surprised if a few don’t want to go further…you know, the not so intellectually curious types.
Shaun what has Wilson done for the Braves?
What i’m saying is there has got to be more capable guys to step in. Phillies took the majority of their starters out and had a squad more to our level.
Wilson blew his chance here, provided nothing with a bat and booted a ball. Nice fill in job.
That’s what i’m saying, last year guys came in and gave us hints of energy. We had big at-bats off the bench, and this year our bench was probably one of our biggest failures yet benches don’t get the attention when pointing fingers.
Why would you say that? When did I ever bring that up?
What some don’t understand is that we have already changed the hitting coach, and not only did that NOT fix the problem, but it in fact made it worse….
Unless these primadonnas decide to listen to the coach, it doesn’t really make a difference…
What needs to be changed is the philosophy….and I said it before and I’ll say it again….
You absolutely CAN NOT do that by going w/ a transitional guy that was the exact same mold as the previous regime….
And to finish, no this may not be Chipper’s fault as he had an above average year, BUT I just don’t see this club doing much until he is out the door, as they are not only hamstrung by his contract, but hamstrung by the fact that he can’t play 1/4 of the games, and is hurt in 1/2 of the others he plays in.
September 29th, 20119:46 am
Shaun – And it’s about time you realize they didn’t sign Heyward or bring him up at age 2 to have him draw walks.
September 29th, 20119:47 am
“Miscalculations…..I am most confident that I am light years closer to being a baseball expert than Mike & Mike. No great expert but closer. Having said that, I am most confident that the Braves have no vision of trading Heyward in the near future. ”
Actually Buster Olney said it and he IS a baseball expert. He said it on Mike & Mike.
I don’t think the Braves will move Heyward. They have too much invested in him (see the saga of Francouer) , but it’s good to know that some who are actually IN the Braves organization are not just assuming (like some here on the blog do) that all you have to do is put Heyward on the field and he’s going to turn water into wine!
So Crazy, what exactly is irrational about firing McDowell or Parrish? Hell, I could have made a great case for firing both of them in-season.
Rock on…..even this blog fired Tomahawkin and Lentz!
I sencond that…..for all you crying about canning a hitting coach……..I roll my eyes at you.
This came down to capable players not performing. This is not an EASY fix. If they want to change something they have to move pieces. That’s always a double sided butter knife!
We complain that the new guy sucks, we complain the old guy is doing well. For whatever reason, they throw on a Braves jersey and get an allergic reaction to the post-season.
September 29th, 20119:48 am
P-T, I agree but I think it should be done.
I think it’s a good sign the team is looking at him and maybe planning a contingency. I hope Heyward comes back next year and carries on like we all initially expected him to. But I think what would be the worst for this team would be the front office not having any plan in the event he doesn’t.
I think they have already put plans in place, which is exactly what I eluded to when Diaz was traded for, and before that, when Constanza was playing in front of him. I believe he has the shortest of short leashes vs. LHP next year, and perhaps just in general.
September 29th, 20119:50 am
Whoop (September 29th, 2011 12:45 am): “As much as people ripped Hanley Ramirez, it looks like he was right.”
Well, let’s see how good ol’ HanRam fares under Ozzie, an even more stringent task-master than Fredi ever was in FL.
Man did you nail that…..when you hand pluck a manager the way the Braves did, just shows you they were still being managed by Bobby after he left. They obviously let him have a huge say in the position, didn’t want to step on the icon. Now we have the same old, same old.
September 29th, 20119:52 am
Heyward has slugged .427 in over 1,000 plate appearances since the start of the 2010 season. I think people in the front office probably expected a bit more there. At least .450ish, no?
TennesseePaul, I think they made a very poor decision early on when they decided not to demote Heyward. I think that was very poor management. It was basically a lost year for him.
So, now that the season is over, what does everyone think was the turning point to the Braves downfall? Was it a certain injury, a game, a play?
To me, it was a few things, like when Tommy and JJ went down, but I think the actual turning point was when we got swept for the first time all year by the stinking Phillies. Up to that point, we had not gotten swept in a 3 game series. We finished September by getting swept 3 times.
Or, maybe they are leaning heavily on OBP and view his .319 as rather unimpressive as well.
Or, maybe they are leaning heavily on SLG and view his .389 as rather unimpressive as well.
Or, maybe they are leaning heavily on wOBA and view his .316 as rather unimpressive as well.
Or, maybe they are leaning heavily on his isolated discipline and view his .092 as rather unimpressive as well.
Or, maybe they are leaning heavily on his walk rate and view his 1 walk every 10 plate appearances as rather unimpressive as well.
Or, maybe they couple all of his statistical results with their own scouting over view and have come view him as rather unimpressive.
The kid took a step back in every area of his game this season. I’m not shocked at all that people in the organization noticed this and have questions about him. I only hope he works his tail all off in the off-season and improves his game.
September 29th, 20119:55 am
TennesseePaul, of course they should have a contingency plan with all players.
I don’t think everyone who questions whether Heyward will develop more so than other players are racist. Most of them are just misguided about baseball, over-relying on batting average and not taking account everything. They are just taking into account hype versus what they view as performance and production.
You would never think, from fan commentary, that Heyward outperformed every Braves outfielder that got significant playing time in 2011. Granted, that’s not saying all that much. But it’s laughable that he’s one of the major players in the blame game.
After rolling through San Fran and Arizona to build that lead……….
That Friday night blown save by Kimbrel really stands out. Especially because it ended up being the team that passed us by. I think the Braves were still in disbelief that it could happen.
Not only did the kid blow it but it seems to ruin him for the rest of the year so it’s only fitting it ended with another blown save.
(NOT BLAMING KIMBREL ON THE SEASON…..that belongs to the bats) but it sure turned things around.
September 29th, 20119:56 am
Right now, the player with the greatest value is Hudson.
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