10:59 pm August 28, 2011, by David O'Brien
Bay Area Steve
August 29th, 20112:50 am
I just assumed Brett was better; noles; you’re sayin’ it’s close, and 10’s even ahead?
I think reading Posnanski the last couple years (thanks DOB), and because the pinetar incident might be the best video ever, I just assumed Brett was better. Baseball-reference, here I come. (And, I’m not checking defense; I’m gonna assume fairly even guys defensively. Brett was probably better early, but switched to first late…)
August 29th, 20112:52 am
And, I’ll now go back and check the last page.
I can’t believe y’all post stuff that you expect the rest of us to read, yet can’t extend an (as noles called it) five-second courtesy to check the previous page…
But, that’s what this place has become. Carry on, Shaun…
August 29th, 20112:59 am
OK, so I’m struggling to find career 3B numbers, all-time. Thought it’d be so easy, even an Anders could do it… What I did find:
Transactions: June 4, 1990: Drafted by the Atlanta Braves in the 1st round (1st pick) of the 1990 amateur draft. Player signed June 4, 1990.
How sweet is that? That’s the whole thing, right there. Drafted. Signed. Hall of Fame.
August 29th, 20113:00 am
I think it’s close and Brett is just ahead. JMO BAS
Bay Area Steve: We kept Shaun off the ifrst page amazing……..
August 29th, 20113:01 am
Beautiful post earlier about the grandparents. I wish you were around more, but I’ll damn sure take the once-a-month gems…
Not having Shuan on the first page is funny……..
August 29th, 20113:02 am
Well every one! Have a good one,and night all,and peace……………………………
August 29th, 20113:04 am
I’m growing frustrated; I can’t compare 3B career numbers. Gotta be a piece of cake. What am I doin’ wrong? Find me a link, kind sir, is what I’m sayin’…
Ward, indeed we did. And, sorry for not believing in you, before. I was wrong. I’m a convert, sir. I truly appreciate your innocence, and your unbridled enthusiasm. Go Braves!
August 29th, 20113:10 am
BAS, what’s up my guy
August 29th, 20113:12 am
some will say that ARod is the greatest of all time . I think FanGraphs talked about that
August 29th, 20113:17 am
I’ve given up finding my usuals: slash/offensive WAR/ops+ (I mean, I’m clearly far too busy to look them up individually; I want this stuff in 10Paul, easy-to-read table format), and have tried The Google Machine. First thing up was the fangraphs article.
I’ve made a personal decision to not include ARod. I’ve no idea if this is right, and have put virtually no thought into it, but I’m excluding him…
August 29th, 20113:18 am
halfway down the page is a list of links. I did not try them all.
August 29th, 20113:19 am
5 years, 50MM….no conversation on the matter…first year eats up his last arb eligible year…so only paying him thru 32 year old season….
For all the folks who think we need a 3b, well, we have a 3b if we need one in Prado for the short-term, and hopefully Salcedo projects there by 2015….meaning we only need a 3b for 2013 and 2014….
There should be more available quality LFers than 3b, so having the flex of Prads is a tremendous boon, when shopping…of course, if there is a better 3b available, we can leave Prads in LF…we are in fantastic shape.
So, no let’s not save this money, let’s spend the McLouth and KK saves on arb increases, and hopefully move Lowe to some team who will eat $5MM of his salary, so that we can give that to Bourn.
And then in winter of 2012, we can go spend Chip’s and the full Lowe salaries on a new LF/3b and more increases.
My blood-alcohol-content, stizz. Any other questions? ‘Cause I frickin’ nailed that one. Too easy…
How ’bout you tell me you’re old enough to remember MacGyver.
August 29th, 20113:20 am
you omitting ARod cause of the PEDs tie?
August 29th, 20113:21 am
And then in winter of 2012, we can go spend Chip’s and the full Lowe salaries on a new LF/3b and more increases….chuck
I am not convinced that Chipper will not be back in 2013 to finish the contract.
August 29th, 20113:22 am
Thank you, nolie. Very kind of you, sir. I will now go a clickin’…
And, for the record: Brett’s numbers (in my head) are gettin’ a well-earned 1% inflation for the pinetar thing. I mean, the umps didn’t even enforce the rule properly…
August 29th, 20113:25 am
Noliee: He only vests at 9MM on the option if he makes it into 123 games, which is by no means guaranteed….
McGyver was on Fairly Legal last year, well Anderson was.
Hardly recognized him. Looks old and heavy.
August 29th, 20113:27 am
I’d love Chip to return as Hitting Coach/Designated PH for 2013….that would be sweet…
yeah I know Chuck, just saying it is not guaranteed that he will leave after 2012, though it might be likely.
unless of course the Mayans were right, and then we won’t hafta worry about his salary at all
August 29th, 20113:28 am
No, nolie, re: your 3:20.
I’ve given up trying to judge who was clean and who was dirty. I’m tired of the whole thing. I don’t like it, but the best guys are the best guys whatever happened. You only played against whites, you only played on amphetamines, you only played on Astroturf, I’ve come to not care.
(I think I do have some sort of Rafael Palmeiro rule, though. I can’t quite pinpoint it, and I think it has a lot to do with that ridiculous gold-glove, but regardless, I don’t want that cat in the Hall.)
I just think, if you’re talking all-time 3B, the guy should’ve come up a 3B, and stayed a 3B. (Notice I have a two-year LF exemption. Clearly I make this stuff up as I go…)
August 29th, 20113:31 am
Well you said finish the contract, and the only way he can do that is if he finds his way into 123 games in 2012…in which case he ramps up beginning at $9MM all the way to $13MM if he plays 140-some games…this will be difficult for him…he is just too injury prone…he’s only played above 140 once since 2002, and that was in 2009 and he hit miserably by his standards at .264….
What i don’t wanna have happen is him not vest but still feel like returning…hopefully if his 2012 is injury-marred he finally walks away gracefully.
August 29th, 20113:33 am
me too chuck, but I kinda doubt that will happen b4 his kids grow up some.
He is already tired of life on the team away from his fam for 14mil. a coach’s salary is unlikely gonna tempt him.
August 29th, 20113:34 am
Pretty good breakdown on ESPN Sweetspot RE: The Greatest 3B of all-time…
The writer had it: Schmidt, Chip, Mathews, Brett, Boggs, Brooksie….
I can’t disagree with that…though anyone could be 3rd on the list behind Michael Jack and Chip….
August 29th, 20113:36 am
Well you said finish the contract…chuck
yes I did say that, and I was aware of what that entailed.
If he plays about like this year he can make it if he wants to.
If he goes on the DL more than once, he prolly won’t.
I was about 2 or 3 when the show first aired so I don’t know too much about it.
Only 90’s shows that I’ve seen alot of is Martin and Parent Hood.
August 29th, 20113:37 am
Well, there’s a reason that career 3b list is kinda short….it’s a brutal position physically….that’s why some special love needs to be given to Brooksie…he stayed healthy there for a lot of years and was by far the best of the group in the field….his bat probably took the brunt of the beating, but he held up his end there (am saying this as a DC native with love for the O’s as my AL club)….
What’s funny is alot of people say Boggs could have been a 30 HR hitter had he wanted to…same with Brett…they opted to play a different type of game.
August 29th, 20113:38 am
Correction, I was around 2 years old when it ended in 92.
August 29th, 20113:39 am
Tired being away from his family on the team….now he just wants to be away from them on his hunting ranch in remote Texas
August 29th, 20113:40 am
Is Chipper really second? I don’t know who wrote that, but I bet you would have to look long and hard to find many non-Braves folks who would buy it.
August 29th, 20113:41 am
I’m sure the fam would spend summers with him there.
gotta teach then kids to provide their own food in case the money runs out…….
I don’t know why we even wasted each other’s time talkin’ TV. I’m a MacGyver/A-team/LA Law guy from way back. I’m not sayin’ I’m right, I’m sayin’ that I’ve no business in a serious My Wife discussion with a guy that has no ‘I love it when a deal comes together’ frame of reference.
And, don’t doubt I can drop ‘Cosby Show’ and ‘Home Improvement’ knowledge in the same post…
August 29th, 20113:44 am
how ’bout All In The Family and The Jeffersons knowledge too?
Can’t fault me for that my man. Couldn’t exactly tell my mom when to shoot me out.
I do know good TV today however. I could talk your head off with some serious Parks and Recreation/The Wire talk.
Shark Tank is becoming a favorite of mine as well.
August 29th, 20113:45 am
Schoenfield…wrote it this very evening in fact…ESPN….
As a switch hitter, he’s top 5 all time probably….combining his glove, the fact he spent time in LF for a superior 3b…i don’t know…if you factor in his production and extrapolate over the missed games, you get a more accurate portrait of what his potential is/was…
Mathews kinda had inflated #s as a young player due to Korea and had the benefit of playing in a lineup with Hank…Robinson anchored a perennial 90 game winner’s D, but had the benefit of playing with Belanger (above avg glove to his left) and a HOF pitching staff that could control the contact off the bat…Brett i actually might like behind Schmidt more than Chip…
Boggs had a tremendous park factor to his advantage with the Fenway wall….but there’s never been a better bunter in the modern era, and he was a great baserunner, though slow…
All these guys have their pluses and minuses….but Chip has identical #s from both sides of plate (consistency is scary), and has been an MVP, and a winner unparalleled.
August 29th, 20113:46 am
Toss in Family Matters..
August 29th, 20113:47 am
(After a car drives up a ramp and does the patented flip after an intense shootout)
Guido: You OK, Rocky?
Rocky: I’m OK Guido….
Nobody ever died on the A-Team in spite of awesome M-16 battles and pinpoint Army explosives tactics…
August 29th, 20114:04 am
I’m omitting A-Fraud from the discussion because he isn’t a career 3B. By career I mean played the majority of their career their. He played 10 years at SS. That is the same reason I wouldn’t consider Ripken one of the best 3Bs ever.
He also used, so that has to be a downgrade…
Robin Of The Hood
August 29th, 20114:16 am
money will be there with Nate and D Lowe (he’s gone man…no way you keep him when Julio T, Dellgado or Minor could all win 10 games ATLEAST next year)….When you can win the same amount of games for 13-14 million less
August 29th, 20114:18 am
Good player who helps us win games. But paying someone boras money when you are not the yanks or bosox is stupid. Very few teams have copious amounts of money to throw around and overpay for players. Don’t we have some speedsters in the minors?
I would be happy with Georgie taking over the leadoff spot when Bourn leaves for his boras money. Same with Hanson, once he hits free agency its; goodbye and see ya later.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
August 29th, 20114:25 am
Nolie – While I might be biased, beings I grew up a Royals fan, I’d take George over Mike Schmidt anyday, but I’d put Brooks Robinson ahead of both of them, and that’s with not ever seeing Brooksie play.
August 29th, 20114:28 am
Where you gonna get Boras money SA?
Granderson in CF in NY, Ellsbury entrenched in Boston….Kemp in LA….Philly gonna cut payroll, their debt/income ratio may dictate they let Hamels walk…
Point is, at 10MM a year, Bourn is very affordable, and that is getting Boras money because the arb process doesn’t reward his type of play, and he’s relatively cheap for final year of arb at 7MM…
Georgie Costanza? Perennial 4Aer who has caught lightning in a bottle, and will surely be exposed over anything over 200 ABs a year? I love him as a 4th or 5th OFer…but once others have his book…he’ll decline the 2nd and 3rd times around the league.
As to Robin of the Hood: Arb increases will eat up KK and Nate’s salaries…the only found money will be if we can get someone to take Lowe off of our hands at a steep subsidy…you’ll have to wait til 2013…
And we are already bringing a knife to a gunfight with our salary resources allotted…90MM v 170MM in our very own division…so no, i want no decrease in annual spend, we need every penny. If the goal was to avg most wins per $ spent we already win, but the goal is to win a WS…so let’s exhaust every penny of available budget and acquire the most talent possible.
August 29th, 20114:31 am
Schmidt had more tools than anyone…for all his Ks, he was top 10 in OBP 10 of 11 years during which he won 3 MVPs….he led the league in HRs in an astroturf slap hitting era an astounding 8x with relatively modest help in the lineup…
Brett got to hit behind a bunch of rude speedsters on a fast playing surface with a better pitching staff (particularly while Dick Howser was alive)….
I love Brett as a pure hitter, but he didn’t field like Schmidt.
I also question whether Brett could’ve done the job in the intense pressure cooker that is Philly…he’s such an intense dude, he’d have killed somebody….Schmidt took the beating and still came out of it as the eras best player (’75-’85)
August 29th, 20114:37 am
I agree you use every dollar, but you also have to spend wisely. There is a threshold I wouldn’t cross with Bourn and that is about $8M per year. This team is is an eviable position to be playoff caliber AND young/rebuilding. You don’t want to invest too much in someone like Bourn and limit your ability to retain your other young talent. Remember, we have some major contracts coming up with JJ, Tommy and Mac. Then you’re getting close to the next wave of Freddie, Heyward, Venters, Kimbrel and O’Flaherty. Every nickel saved could be the difference between keeping all the young talent and losing someone.
I trust Wren to make the right decisions. He has done nothing to dissuade me to this point.
August 29th, 20114:41 am
For sure, should the Braves go deep into the postseason or perhaps even win the World Series, and while doing so should Michael Bourne plays a significant or substantial part in this, the cash register will be dinging so fast it may be too hot to touch!
August 29th, 20114:45 am
Well, my buddy and i have the salaries all modeled out til 2020, with projected arb increases…
Fact is though this exercise is far from perfect, signing Bourn thru 2016 wouldn’t be any hindrance to retaining all of our cost-controlled talent (even allowing for extensions)….
Additionally, we have nothing close to ready in the Minor Leagues for CF….and you just can’t replicate his speed, SB accuracy, or glove…like Andruw or not, we have missed his glove in CF since he left, and i think you pay a premium for GG up the middle D.
All that young talent is cost-controlled that you mention….only Jair and Mac will need new deals, and with Weaver signing to stay home in Anaheim, that’s a sign that Jair is much more signable than i initially thought.
I have no problem giving a guy in his athletic prime a little more, particularly when we have the latitude financially to do it…not only will it solidify our leadoff spot and up the middle D, saving us countless runs, but it’ll indicate to other FAs that we aren’t so f-ing cheap if its the right skill set you bring….
I cant’ find a better CF to lock down….we have long term solutions everywhere but CF and SS….i consider the money Chip frees up as a long term solution whether we use it for LF or 3b when the time comes…
SS is the only thing i wanna be concerned about come 2013….and hopefully Andrelton Simmons continues with the bat, because I’ve seen his glove and arm, and those are both MLB ready…
August 29th, 20115:00 am
Constanza could be a replacement for Bourne if we can’t sign Bourne. Cons is an excellent CF. May be wrong, but I believe Cons will continue to hit well… he’s a lifetime .300 hitter in the minors and has certainly hit well since brought up to the bigs.
Man, hope we’ve got a comer in the minors for AGon, who is terrific defensively… some of the plays he makes on defense are superb. He’s not much offensively, tho an occasional long ball threat.
August 29th, 20115:17 am
Agreed, but then this is another reason baseball, a supposed “league” of competitive franchises playing by the same rules, needs to implement a salary cap so teams like the Braves, Marlins and Tampa Bay whom all have great player development systems can stop being a farm system for the Yanks, Red Sox and Phillies that not coincidentally, have the top three records and top three payrolls in baseball. Otherwise, we may get to the World Series, but we cannot sustain it once the either of the big three or four begin consuming our talent base.
This is why the NFL has left MLB in its dust in popularity, where the competitive balance is such that a Pittsburgh, Arizona, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, and even that small town in Wisconsin can always compete for a title given good player selection, development and coaching; and never do they have to worry about the Jets, Giants, Eagles or Patriots buying their players.
That such a disparity exists between top and bottom franchises of the same league–the Yankees with a $203,000,000.00 payroll versus the Royals $36,000,000.00 (5.64 times greater)–coupled with different rules between the National and American Leagues–speaks to the absurdity of it all and is frankly insulting to our intelligence.
It is odd to me to start thinking this way, but at 15th out of 30 team’s payroll, the Braves have slowly and methodically drifted down and may soon be in the “farm team” category as the Marlins, Pirates and Royals…rarely, if ever, having a real opportunity to compete for the World Series. Worse, it is just sad to think that Kimbrel, Venters, Freeman and others we will one day see on ESPN every night playing for either the Sox or Yankees because they will have 2, 3, 4, 5 or maybe even six times the revenue to buy our players!
Baseball, with the huge disparity in player purchasing power between franchises, the absurdity of different rules, and perhaps the biggest and dumbest “puppet” for a commissioner, could really use more than a face lift; it could use reconstructive surgery to regain its popularity and restore some honor and dignity!
How sad it must feel to be utterly hopeless in Pittsburgh, for example, while their Steelers have been to seven, yes SEVEN, Super Bowls, including three in the past few years?
August 29th, 20115:19 am
I agree we have the money coming off the books, but we also have an unsettled ownership. Once Liberty’s tax write-off is no longer available, they’re going to look to unload the team. I believe that is after next season. If we get an owner like Arthur Blank, we’re golden. If we get another corporate owner, who knows what the payrole will be.
I love the fact that most of talent is young and controllable, I also know that its going to cost money to keep all that talent. I’m all for keeping Bourn at the right price. Just don’t mortgage the future on a guy that’s 28 and having a career year. If he wrecks shop next year…all bets are off.
August 29th, 20115:20 am
pretty sure that the union is not gonna ok a salary cap
August 29th, 20115:21 am
Costanza may be a late bloomer who will make the most of his extended reps…but i caution you against penciling him in as a long-term solution…there’s a reason why he hasn’t ever had an extended stay at the ML level until now.
August 29th, 20115:29 am
he never had any stay at all, but he was kinda blocked with the Indians.
I think he might make a decent 4th OFer. More than that is stretching it long term probably.
and he has gotten cold the last few games so it might be time to get Heyward in there more though many on this blog will rant about that unless Jason gets hot right away.
August 29th, 20115:31 am
You’re right, Larry. Baseball has become Premier League Soccer. There are haves and havenots. The Yankees, Sox and Phillies are not going to let the “luxury tax” stop them from running up a bill when acquiring players. They will continue to attack the free agent/trade market farm system be damned because they are in win now mode constantly and can afford to do so. The Braves are on the fence since Ted got raped by AOL/TW. In the next year we will know if they are a have or have not.
I agree, there is no competitive balance in baseball at all. How the hell can you have leagues with different rules playing under the guise of a sport? Its absolutely asinine. There is no way a team in Kansas City or Pittsburgh can compete consistently with the “Big 3″ because they can only control their players so long financially. I really don’t want to see the Braves punished for knowing how to scout, develop and trade for the right players…only to see those players playing for those douchebags down the road.
August 29th, 20115:34 am
Heyward is still a presence P have to be careful around…i just wish he would exhibit the same pitch selectivity that made him such an immediate success and vaulted him thru the minors so rapidly.
He has the potential to be a .400 OBP guy annually….right now he’s not trusting his ability to turn on balls so he’s way early on off-speed and guessing poorly on the inside part of the plate. His OBP and walk rate are suffering….when those are healthy, it’s an avalanche of extra base hits and walks.
Lately he’s been laying back on balls and letting his hands run inside out on balls and he’s going oppo with greater frequency…let’s hope this continues and as pitchers try to adjust that they start making mistakes…this year is a lost year stat-wise, but if he takes Uggla’s approach and goes day to day with it, he could still be productive and a weapon in the post-season….
August 29th, 20115:36 am
I was thinking that someone needs to translate extra $ into wins…and everyone should get a handicap…80MM extra $$ of payroll over the mean means the Phils need to win the division by 8 or more games over the Braves…this would mean we’d be in the division lead!
(I say all this knowing it will never happen)
August 29th, 20115:41 am
I can’t believe that anyone that is a true Braves fan is giving up on Heyward. He is 22 and has all the tools to be a monster. I can’t see him as a factor this year, but he is definitely the future. He just needs time to get his head straight and work through the adjustments it takes to be a major league player. He isn’t going to get that time in the heat of a pennant race. He’ll get it together in spring training and be ready to rock next year.
August 29th, 20115:47 am
The only thing i worry about is the pounding a 6′6, 250 lb guy is gonna take playing 150+ times a year….only guy i know who played a real long time at that size in the OF was Dave Winfield….
So far, he hasn’t been able to avoid the naggers and things like shin splints…just injuries that come with the day to day pounding. Every time he slides headfirst on that thumb i cringe.
August 29th, 20115:57 am
We will mess around and end up getting Schaffer back from Houston
August 29th, 20116:03 am
I think we are not going to get Bourne…
Borass will see to that. Mark my words. If we somehow do manage to sign him, then I’ll gladly eat crow…
August 29th, 20116:13 am
But i ask you:
Where will Bourn go get this magical payday that will exceed our ability to match? We will have some available payroll…if not this off-season, then surely next…we’ll have Lowe’s salary in it’s entirety.
I don’t plan on offering Bourn $15MM…but why can’t we pay $10MM (which is at the high end of his market)
Philadelphia has a guy they like in Victorino, NY has Granderson, Boston has Ellsbury….
Bourn is from Houston, so he favors the South….the Dodgers have Kemp, so if he has an LA fetish, that won’t work…Anaheim will have Trout or Hunter….
The Mets have no money…they’ll be cutting payroll.
Boras has to recognize that there are only so many big money slots available…this is one reason Pujols is going to have to re-sign in St Louis or go to the Cubs….no big market has a 1b slot available…and now Pujols will have to contend with Fielder looking for a slot too….
Musical chairs, my friend…closest comparison i can make…
August 29th, 20116:17 am
Plus we are built to win for years….that has to be an attraction for a guy like Bourn who toiled in mediocrity or less for years in Houston…
I think we get Bourn if we want Bourn…that limited gamble was part of the reason this deal was so good for us, and also why we included Shafer in the return package. We feel that if he’s gonna do as he’s done so far, that he’s going to be a big piece of our team during the next few seasons.
He offers a dimension that makes us a better than .600 club in the woeful NL…a dimension we’ve lacked for a long time.
August 29th, 20116:27 am
HOSS can stay as long as he wants.. Show some love. This is a great team… Phillies/Braves winner on to the World Series. Our back three bull pen stoppers will bring us home.
August 29th, 20116:52 am
Take your Bike shorts off Coach!
Hoss struggles to stay healthy and holds us hostage for weeks at a time during these spells….as i stated, he’s a helluva player when he’s in there, but we can’t count on him for more than 130 games a year…
If i had Ted Turner’s wallet, i’d pay Hoss 20MM a year tribute pay…but those days are long-gone…
August 29th, 20116:54 am
I have no doubt that if Wren makes Bourn a priority, he will be a Brave for the next 6 years. If he chooses to use that money elsewhere because Boras has priced him beyond our budget, i’m not gonna hate. Wren has proven to me that he knows what he’s doing. We can move Lipka to CF in an emergency. He is a good enough athlete to handle it.
August 29th, 20116:59 am
Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lipka playing CF next year just because we have a glut of SS prospects. Salcedo is clearly going to be a 3B because he will outgrow the position and we still have Pastornicky and Simmons still elite SS prospects.
Whoever asked if we have a prospect lined up to replace Gonzo should rest easy…we have too many.
August 29th, 20117:00 am
I saw Lipka this year…i think he projects to 2nd base…built like a young Ryne Sandberg….real square and strong….
Disappointing year for Lipka and he’s at least 3-4 years away…..so that doesn’t help us starting in 2012. We’ll need to look elsewhere, we have nothing in the system that will be ready.
The closest guy we have is Myke Jones, and he projects to be a utility/bench guy IMO.
August 29th, 20117:23 am
Love Bourn – but can’t fathom what Boros stands for. Guess he’s good for his clients. But in my opinion, its been agents like him (who leads the pack) who have really hurt the game. So yes, within reason I would try to sign Bourn to a contract extension this year. But second, I’d be making other lead-off hitter plans for if Boros runs true to form, his initial asking price would cost the Braves one or more of their future stars because of the salary cap – probably a pitcher the likes of Minor or even Jurjens. No sense in wasting the time dickering either. Guess I can’t blame the players for getting what they can. But let’s get real – making 4.5 mil or more for a handful of years gets you a pretty good lifestyle throughout your lifetime. What does holding out for another mil or two do for you other than make more money for your agent and give you a greedy SOB label. Ultimately, it is the fan who pays the tab and even as it is now, I can’t afford to attend more than a handful of games with my grandchildren each year.
August 29th, 20117:25 am
Thankfully, we control Bourn through 2012. Lipka is young and needs time to develop. He’s an athlete. He will be fine. If he ends up being our 2B of the future, that works too.
Chris from the Rock
August 29th, 20117:26 am
I agree with bringing Infante back. The Braves miss his presence and versatility. Lugo stinks.
August 29th, 20117:36 am
Matt Kemp will get 20+ a million
Bourn should get 8-10 million
August 29th, 20117:44 am
Sign him to an extension today. He brings a totally new dimension to this team, one that it has lacked since Otis Nixon. Love him. He understands his role. Unlike Furcal he doesn’t think about home runs and hit dozens of flyouts trying to be Macho Man. And I don’t care what anybody says, you don’t need home runs from a leadoff hitter. Bourn is the man. I will personally send money to help the Braves sign him to an extension. He can hit for average, run, field, and he seems like a great guy. Do it Now!
August 29th, 20118:00 am
What we should be talking about is??????WHO IS GOING TO BE ON THE ACTIVE ROSTER ON THE 31st, this will be the post season eligable roster. The big questions are, do you spend a spot on Heyward a .220 hitter, Do you go with Veteran pitchers who are struggling or go with fresh arms like Delgado, Minor and Teheran. And what about Lugo and Conrad, Could bring up Hicks who can play 3B and SS? Very important decisions coming up in 2 more days, Bourn can wait.
August 29th, 20118:02 am
I can’t believe some think Bourn will be signed for 8-9 million…..are you serious?? No, he doesn’t hit homers, but the steroid era is over. Batting average, speed, and defense are now at a premium. Boras will ask for 15 million/year…..someone will pay him 12-13, IMHO
August 29th, 20118:09 am
agree PanamaJack……Hansen is toast. I have a feeling JJ is worn out as well. Our 3 starting pitchers for the post season could be Hudson, Beachy, and dare I say it…..Lowe? Maybe Vizcaino….but that means 2 rookies in post season…..not good!!
August 29th, 20118:10 am
Well it’ll be a decision to make on Helms…Hoover….of course Heyward is on it, he’s on the 40 man….
Teheran doesn’t have but maybe 25 innings left (even stretching it here, maybe 20)….
Minor HAS to pitch now, because Hanson is hurt…and Lowe can’t be replaced, because none of the young guys is built up enough (Delgado or Teheran)….
Lugo and Conrad are on the 40 man…
Only real decisions IMO are whether to add JJ Hoover to the 40 to help in the pen, and to add Helms to help as a PH bat….that may require us removing Matt Young or someone…
August 29th, 20118:11 am
Vizcaino doesn’t have the innings to start any games…he’s strictly going to be used out of the pen, and probably for no more than 2 innings at a time…he missed a little time earlier this year luckily due to a minor injury which is helping us right now as Moylan gets healthy.
August 29th, 20118:12 am
Boras will ask for 15 million/year…..someone will pay him 12-13, IMHO
Then I’ll help him pack his bags. Despite the thought that speed and defense are at a “premium”, the truth is that the skillset Bourn brings to the game has less of a correlation to scoring runs than power. Much less. He just isn’t worth that kind of eight-figure money.
Now, Wren may see him as an absolute need, much as he did Lowe, and be willing to overpay to get him. But not at that $12MM+ figure. That would be insane.
August 29th, 20118:13 am
Are we going to keep Linesuck on the post season roster instead of Visciano?
August 29th, 20118:14 am
If it were my decision I would bring back Norton for the post season!
August 29th, 20118:17 am
I like Bourne and pay him what he’s worth, Just don’t overpay and long contracts. Look at what has happened to the Cubs with long overpaid contracts, ruined the club. Bourne has been a big asset to the Braves good move so far, keep it in perspective.
There is lots of wiggle room on the 40 man roster.
August 29th, 20118:18 am
DOB, how ya doin!? Hope you remember me. We met in Athens at the GA Theater a couple of years back sharing a stogie, Braves talk and a mutual admiration of James McMurtry. Anyhow, mark Thursday, Oct. 27 on your calendar. Jason Isbell and James McMurtry at the new GA Theater. Doesn’t get any better than that. Have you been since it reopened? Amazing. And they allow you to smoke on the rooftop bar/deck. Drop me a line if you want me to score tix. They won’t last long.
August 29th, 20118:19 am
Bobby Cox, if it was my decision I would bring you back for the post season.
August 29th, 20118:21 am
WTF is up with your title? SHOULD THEY? He is a bonafide lead-off/base stealer in the major leagues… something we have lack for IONS in baseball time. The only way he shouldn’t resign is due to a career ending injury… get it right Wren.
August 29th, 20118:23 am
Yes CB, and we would lose like we did in 13 of 14 tries.
August 29th, 20118:24 am
Pay the man and keep him. Everyone else gets hefty contracts, so why not?
August 29th, 20118:26 am
Lets not forget who owns the Braves, Liberty Media, And they are not going to lncrease the budget to sign Bourn to a long term contract, Constanza on the other hand will be affordable for several years and is just as good Bourn, Lead off hitters are in high demand and the Braves under present ownership cannot afford two of them. I have said many times on this very blog until the Braves are owned by local interest you will not see any large increase in the budget.
prepare to spend at least 60 million for 6 years. Too much yes but its that or look for another centerfielder who is not as good and costs almost as much. We need a 4 man outfield as long as chipper is in the lineup to protect his rest days and any injuries. Thats not a knock on chipper its just the facts. There are no good free agents at third base next year so him staying may not be that bad. We just do not need to regress in any area because you can bet the Phillies will not.
August 29th, 20118:27 am
I’d be happy with 9-10 million a year for five, but Borass will ask for way over that amount…I like the suggestion that we offer (max) 50 for 5, starting next year. That, in my opinion, would be very hard to pass up.
Whatever happens, FW is not going to overpay. I like that. It lets these “super” agents know what they’re dealing with.
I really hope a cap comes into play sometime soon. Baseball economics are unsustainable as this rate.
August 29th, 20118:29 am
the Phillies play 33 games in 31 days with no off days and the braves are coming off a three day break.. I like our chances better now but I really like the fact that the schedule may cause injury and energy drain to the Phillies staff. I know they may try to coast to the playoffs thats why we have to try to keep the pressure on.
August 29th, 20118:32 am
I think Liberty Media will not own the Braves next year and beyond. Mark Cuban would pay what it takes to win. We need a deep pockets owner with a huge ego that requires victory,Sounds like a Cuban like guy to me.
August 29th, 20118:34 am
The N8 Constanza Watch:
Do I believe he’ll hit around .300 with an OBP around .350 from here on out? Yes
August 29th, 20118:44 am
With MLB cracking down on PEDs you will see the game shift back to speed up the middle. Bourn and Constanza are a sign of things to come but it will take some time to get these types of players worked through the minors. I say sign him at $30 million for the next 5 years and by the time his contract runs out there will be 15 other players with similar stats. Kudos to Freddy Gonzolaz and Frank Wren for recognizing the shift in the game and moving speed into the line up. Previous years would have seen the Braves try to sign another hot and cold power hitter.
Choppinmama (August 29th, 2011 12:06 am): “what have you been hearing about the movie “Moneyball”? I’ll go see it because it’s about baseball . . . .
“Haven’t read the book either, how was it?”
It’s about baseball, too.
eric in nc
August 29th, 20118:49 am
Dave you forgot to mention that Butler stole bases at a 68% success rate while Bourn is at 81%. Huge difference. Butler stole a lot of bases but he wasnt a very good base stealer in terms of success.
August 29th, 20118:52 am
It really depend on what Bourn and Boris will ask for his service. But a 5 years contract shouldn’t be part of the deal .If i was the Braves i would move Constanza to lead off and promote some of those good young player down in triple A .
August 29th, 20119:00 am
Kudos to Freddy Gonzolaz and Frank Wren for recognizing the shift in the game and moving speed into the line up.
They have one burner and five thumpers (not even counting Prado’s normal 10+ dingers). That doesn’t exactly sound like a paradigm shift to me.
If McCann, Uggla, Heyward, and Freeman are banging in 2012 and beyond the way they profile, I really, really doubt that the team will worry too much about SBs.
I understand that the team would like to be more athletic, especially in the OF, but that’s a different kettle of fish from relying on speed ss a strategy to produce runs.
August 29th, 20119:03 am
Constanza has played Center, Left and Right!!!!!!!!!! WHAT’S THE PROBLEM? JOB you think everyone that reads your articles are STUPID. It’ down right insulting the way you write!!!!!
Constanza has as much speed (and maybe more) as Bourne.
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