10:59 pm August 28, 2011, by David O'Brien
August 28th, 201111:02 pm
August 28th, 201111:08 pm
Since there is no salary cap in MLB, how big a “big” extension is really just depends on how much the Braves are willing to spend in overall payroll. As long as giving Bourn an extension doesn’t conflict with their ability to keep Freeman/McCann/Heyward around when their contracts expire or are up for negotiation, pay the man and keep him around.
August 28th, 201111:11 pm
YES SIGN HIM LIKE yesterday
August 28th, 201111:13 pm
Fixed the link to McMurtry song now, if you want to go back and click it. Great tune by one of my favorite artists.
August 28th, 201111:15 pm
Michael Bourn will not become a free agent until after the 2012 season.
August 28th, 201111:16 pm
Lots of money, don’t really know what to think, we’ve got the highest paid secondbaseman, not sure how it all adds up and still pay for the other players, but he is a difference-maker and it really is fun to have one like him on the team.
August 28th, 201111:17 pm
And True Blood ends with a very new version of “Burning Down the House” – definitely not the Talking Heads…
i think if the braves are going to be a WS contender for a couple of years Bourn will make the decision to stay here. let’s not forget it is HIS decision at the end of the day. the fans, players, and organization truly appreciate his skill set. that goes a long way. and he is a southern boy……i think he’s saying in ATL with the other country boys (and warm weather)
August 28th, 201111:18 pm
In Baseball America’s annual midseason survey of major league managers for the recent “Best Tools” issue, Bourn was rated the NL’s best baserunner, its fastest baserunner, and its best defensive outfielder.
August 28th, 201111:19 pm
the Braves need to lock up Bourn. Like stated in the article we have no one MLB ready in our minor league system. As a fan i enjoy watching the thrilling speed he brings on both offense and defense. He is a top 5 leadoff hitter in the MLB and will score more times than not once he reaches. The braves need to give up the money and lock him up with the phillies having a similar player in victorino.
August 28th, 201111:20 pm
Kudos, DOB, on another great article, which really shows the difference in eras and why baseball is such a special sport. Personally, i think u hit the nail on the head when u mentioned that we do not have anyone on the farm who could be a everyday CF. Of course, Boras knows this as well and unfortunately will use that against us. But we DEFINITELY need to keep him if we can get him for under $10 mill/per.
August 28th, 201111:21 pm
DOB – very much enjoying the song – thanks!
August 28th, 201111:22 pm
the Braves need to lock up Bourn. Like stated in the article we have no one MLB ready in our minor league system. As a fan i enjoy watching the thrilling speed he brings on both offense and defense. He is a top 5 leadoff hitter in the MLB and will score more times than not once he reaches. The braves need to give up the money and lock him up. The Phillies being our biggest competition in years to come have a dynamic Cf in shane Victorino who i believe has his own league of power speed and defense. SIgning Bourn will make the braves contention with the Phillies much closer.
August 28th, 201111:24 pm
Bourn has been worth roughly 5 WAR (per 162 games) according to Fangraphs for each of the last three seasons. 1 WAR is equal to above 5 million dollars per year. Even factoring in some decline (despite the fact that he is entering his peak years), a deal for about 10 million per year would be a huge steal. I’m all for a 4 year deal at 10-11 million dollars per year. No organizational depth and a rare talent who is entering the peak of his career.
August 28th, 201111:30 pm
I think we should sign him. He makes the team better on a number of levels, and there isn’t much in the way of alternatives.
You forgot that Jorge Constanza could play cf.
August 28th, 201111:31 pm
Ummm free agent in 2012 right?
The Braves will definitely sign him I believe. He does not hit a lot of homers so how much could he be? 7.5-8 mill?
They want some speed(FINALLY!) and have seen the benefit of it and they have no other significant cash tied up in the outfield already. I think with the extra cash they will have when they do not pick up the option year on McLouth next year, they will resign Bourne. Then with Lowe leaving after 2012 for sure and maybe Chipper too, that frees up 15-29 million for 2013 to help out, along with upping some of the younger guys salaries.
Thanks for the blog, DOB. Glad everyone made it back home safe, though 3 days of no Braves baseball hasn’t been that fun. Would I sign Bourn? I think in a heartbeat. Not only has re-energized this team, he’s created constant scoring opportunities that have given us the cushion in the WIld Card. Without a good prospect down on the farm, it seems to me it’s the right decision. He can give us what Nate should’ve the last couple of years. And the guys in the clubhouse seem to love him. Has he ever expressed any interest in post-game about wanting to stay, etc?
I agree with you Mark. If we can get him for 5 years at 40 million, by all means pull the trigger. We’ve seen a very different offense this past month with Bourn and Costanza. Speed wins!!
August 28th, 201111:37 pm
Amazing stuff Chief! Sign him. Pay him.
August 28th, 201111:43 pm
I assume I’ll be repeating what some others have posted but Bourn has brought something we’ve been missing to Atlanta and as said in the blog we don’t have in the minors. He doesn’t solve all our problems but can one person really do that anyways? I mean maybe but I’m sure if that player existed we’re not the Yankees and we couldn’t afford whomever that would be. But on Micheal, in my ‘expert fan who sits on my couch opinion’ is keep him and try to lock him down as early as you can.
Good song choice — for my first hurricane here up north it wasn’t so awful, no power for a little bit but that was about it along with some other interesting points.
August 28th, 201111:46 pm
The team needs a player like Bourne with speed in the lineup. That’s the piece that has been missing for years, somebody that can worry the opposing pitcher, make the infield throw the ball around trying to catch him.
He’s plenty fast and athletic enough in the outfield, and he can single and double the opposition to death. He seems willing to sacrifice his body for the play, a quality I haven’t seen Jason exhibit yet.
Heck yeah, sign him up.
Ooohh, DOB throws McLouth under the bus…….ouch!!
Around The Horn
August 28th, 201111:47 pm
Sign him, but at a reasonable, yet fair amount — and not the kind of exorbitant numbers Boras always seems to push for.
Rick in Dallas
Mack ” The Knife” Jones ready for a comeback ?
Heyward grounds out to second
August 28th, 201111:49 pm
Yes, sign him. He’s a great leadoff hitter, has consistent production, is a stand up guy, has a good glove and amazing speed.
He’s the missing piece of a good line up that makes us great. Lock him up for five years and we will always be a contender as long as our pitching remains good as well. He makes things happen.
August 28th, 201111:52 pm
It’s Jose Constanza, and no, he’s a career minor leaguer having flukey success in the bigs. I like him as a 4th OF/ bench player, but Bourn is a sure thing no doubt. I bet Wren goes all out for this guy come his free agency time. Hope so.
August 28th, 201111:54 pm
When looking for a comparison you missed Willie “Mays” Hayes.
I think some team will offer 5/50 or so. not sure he is worth that much.
sure sign him if the price is reasonable. He may continue to improve or he may regress to the mean some.
I don’t think an extension should be automatic, but he seems to be the kinda player that Wren likes so it won’t surprise me if he offers a bit more than he might be worth.
August 28th, 201111:56 pm
Absolutely, the Braves should work out a long-term deal for Bourn. When you have an asset that virtually no other team has, you would be foolish to let it slip through your fingers, to join someone like the Phillies, Giants, Mets, Yankees or Red Sox. It’s unlikely to be Pittsburgh or Seattle that signs him after 2012 – it’s likely to be one of our chief obstacles to winning a World Series any time in the next decade!!! Lock him up!
If Jose Constanza continues to play well (anything over .280) in the future, he makes for a great 4th outfielder at worst. If he continues to outhit Heyward vs. lefties by such a large margin, he would be a great option for those situations.
August 28th, 201111:58 pm
DOB – wow! Great topic. Well researched, great comparisons, good insights. One of your best efforts of the season. Isn’t it great when you have a few days to put a story like this together? Kinda like the luxury the pro football guys have to work on their game stories.
We’ll start cracking the whip again tomorrow! More stories, feed the insatiable appetite of blog monster…………
August 28th, 201111:59 pm
down here Irene as a two would just be considered a stiffish breeze, dontcha know?
Seriously glad most have checked in and seem to be ok.
Hope Lew is safe up there.
A bit ironic that some of the worst trouble was created after she dropped to a storm from a hurricane.
You just never know with them damn things
August 29th, 201112:01 am
And then when Wren loses out at resigning this guy the nuts will set this place on fire. Like nolie just said though, Bourn is a Wren type player, probably goes overboard some with him. He stays a Brave for many years to come for my prediction.
August 29th, 201112:06 am
with kk, nate, lowe, chip soon to be gone we should have the money to sign him. Plus we gave up 4 players to get him which I don’t think they would have done without the intention of signing him long term. But as it is our only hole to fill in the offseason is ss. We need more speed like a reyes or rollins. Not those guys because of injury and age but someone whos game is comparable.
DOB – very off topic, but what have you been hearing about the movie “Moneyball”? I’ll go see it because it’s about baseball and I can drool over Brad for a couple of hours, but will I come out of the theater satisfied?
Haven’t read the book either, how was it?
August 29th, 201112:12 am
with kk, nate, lowe, chip soon to be gone we should have the money to sign him. …wes
good chance that Chipper and Lowe will not be gone in time to help defray a signing cost for Bourn this winter, especially Chipper.
August 29th, 201112:14 am
I think I would take my chances and wait and see what he does next year also see what Constanza and Heyward do next year. I have seen too many players get the big long term contract then fizzle afterward. After next season they should have some big bucks available with the retirement of Chipper, Lowe leaving and probably Hudson, lots of money there if we still need a CF and quite possibly they won’t need anything else.
August 29th, 201112:18 am
Lock it down.
August 29th, 201112:20 am
I think I would take my chances and wait and see what he does next year also see what Constanza and Heyward do next year….panama
Unless he agreed to a surprisingly low deal-highly unlikely wit Boras as his agent- I think I would wait too.
both will be gone after next season when bourns current contract ends. It’s not a given we try to sign him to an ext. This offseason but with kk and nates contracts off the books we should have enough to sign him to a 10m a yr contract.
August 29th, 201112:28 am
I’m all for locking him up. He filled a serious void both in CF & as a high OBP guy that the top of the order needed. I’m sure Wren makes a push to sign him long term.
Those of you looking for Chipper to be off the books in short order are probably going to be wrong. I wouldn’t be surprised at this point if he’s not back for 2013 as well. ESPN just post a nice article on Hoss a bit ago, comparing him with the top 5-6 third baseman to ever play the game.
August 29th, 201112:39 am
Hello every one! Why talk about the Bourn signing now? To cause panic until then?We all know Wren will sign him! Why worry about it now? Let’s focus on the race to the Play-Offs…….
100% YES…contingent upon a fair and reasonable contract terms–if there is such a thing?
After having season tickets for over 20 years I gave them up last season for one primary reason…I had absolutely grown so bored with the Braves “brand” of baseball I no would almost invariably leave the games early and even on TV would fall asleep and often go back and forth between the game and a movie.
The Braves had a well balanced lineup from the early 90’s through about 2001, maybe 2002. The speed in the early/mid 90’s of Otis Nixon, Deion Sanders, Ron Gant, Lonnie Smith, Marquis Grissom and even Terry Pendleton complimented by the power of Sid Bream, David Justice, Brian Hunter, Fred McGriff, for me, was more balanced and much more enjoyable for me and, save for a few bonehead playoff decision by YKW, we have one or two more World Series Championships.
Fast forward to about 1999-2000 and we begin a personality change of less speed and moving to a 3 run homer mentality that would last up until the trade for Bourne at the deadline. It should come as no coincidence that we haven’t come close to a World Series the last 10-11 seasons because of this as our sole dependence on the home run ball could never survive the great pitching in the playoffs. In other words, Bobby Cox’s love affair with the 3 run homer was not only inhibited this team’s versatility in the postseason, it was just painfully boring to wait, and wait, and wait for the big home run!
Meanwhile, other teams were winning the World Series this past decade that could manufacture runs in the postseason both ways: the big, timely home run, and the ability to “manufacture” runs with speed that leads to misplayed balls, stolen bases, hit and runs, etc.
I want Borne and Constanza on this team, and I want us to continue to emphasize speed at all positions as we prepare for this and future seasons where PED’s are no longer over inflating the power game and pitching is expected to dominate the nest several years.
Speed, defense, power, contact.situational hitting–coupled with great pitching–is championship caliber baseball, and personally I haven’t been more excited about the current Braves lineup that can compete in the postseason in about 14-15 years!
Awesome job by Frank Wren, not only getting Bourne, but the price he paid to get him!
As a bonus…Bourne seems to be a really great guy and looks to be well liked and respected by his teammates.
August 29th, 201112:41 am
Worry about Bourn in the Off-Season,and then start focusing on saving money, by cutting players like Agon,and Lowe,and put that money away for a third baseman for the following year.
August 29th, 201112:43 am
From the previous blog which had 2,644 comments, noliee led the way with 216 posts. There were 186 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:
Rank Poster Frequency
1 noliee 216
2 Tom O’Hawke 159
3 Venice Jim 141
4 McFann :Ô: :Ô: 129
5 cabravesfan 97
6 Efrim 78
7 phil 66
8 Sopheee 64
9 Brava 59
10 Kat 59
11 tiger297 59
12 ncscoots 55
13 Snotboogie 52
14 MIBravesFan 49
15 George 46
16 David O’Brien 45
17 keylargo 43
18 JC from DR! 38
19 Bat Masterson 37
20 timthebrave 36
21 Shaun 34
22 bravesgrl4lifee 34
23 Mixxo 31
24 Ward 30
25 Lew 29
August 29th, 201112:48 am
Focus on Bourn in the Off-season,and also try to get Infante back! We also find a way to sign J.J. too,and Hanson……
August 29th, 201112:50 am
both will be gone after next season when bourns current contract ends…wes
not a given. Chipper might easily decide to finish out that last year of his contract, and if they wait until the winter of ‘12 they lose a bit of the advantage of being the only tean in the dealing that an extension might give them.
August 29th, 201112:54 am
We let Chipper play his final year of contract,and then we don’t have to do too much for that year,but sign players,and just go get a couple of bargain players for the bench……
August 29th, 201112:58 am
August 29th, 201112:59 am
Most definately we sign Bourn first than J.J.
August 29th, 20111:02 am
Meanwhile, other teams were winning the World Series this past decade that could manufacture runs in the postseason both ways: the big, timely home run, and the ability to “manufacture” runs with speed that leads to misplayed balls, stolen bases, hit and runs, etc.
Larry – and your comments about Bobby – the boring wait between 3 run homers (which was great when it happened, but when it didn’t , we were lousy at manufacturing) – are so right on!!
Bourne, Constanza, Jason, Marteeen, AGon need to find the way to get on, then, the big boppers can move then around or in. Bourne and the rest of the team speedsters can worry the heck out of the pitcher and fielders. It’s exciting baseball. To me, speed gives the players a really good chance to influence the game on the bases.
Good pitching and aggressiveness. We look good moving into the end of the season and into the wild card playoffs. We have the players to make a good run. Let’s see how the coaching works. Feeling moderately comfortable with that too. May get more comfortable with Fredi & Co. towards season’s end.
August 29th, 20111:05 am
Anybody hear from Lew since he logged off this morning? Looks like Vermont just got killed today with flooding. I saw some weather channel clips & photos, and boy, just devastation in some of those small towns. How sad. I think it was more in southern Vermont, and I think Lew is farther north, so hopefully he’s alright. The blog is thinking about you buddy!
August 29th, 20111:08 am
McFanned those italics! Gettin late for me.
I may be forced to watch the Filthies today if they’re playing.
Hope all you folks effected by Irene are safe and dry tonight.
August 29th, 20111:10 am
I got a chance to pass through Brattleboro, VT earlier this summer, and it is one of the coolest, most beautiful little towns you could come across. Stopped to eat at a sandwich shop, right on Main St. It is such a shame that that street (among many others of course) is now completely under water.
August 29th, 20111:11 am
5/$40m seems like a very good deal, I wouldn’t flinch a bit at 5/$50m. Beyond that it starts to get a lot tougher.
August 29th, 20111:19 am
So the Braves have won some kind of real high percentage since Bourne took the field for them. Can you say a key player has arrived on Aaron Blvd? Sign the man if you can, he is a game maker who contributes in several ways. To borrow from Chipper, Bourne has a large affect just being in the lineup and defensive skills too. O boy!
He’s having a career year, don’t think I’d give him 10 per off of that one year. He might regress. If I had to give that I think I’d wait, but Frank might very well be willing to pay that. something to look forward to seeing how it turns out
August 29th, 20111:21 am
Jayson Heyward has this kind of potential with some pop too. Hope he’s still a brave when he gets it all going.
August 29th, 20111:23 am
benchwarmer: I agree,and we shouldn’t let Heyward go either……..
August 29th, 20111:25 am
I beleive the braves will need a SS next year, I don’t think A-Gon will settle for a 1 year contract because he can get a long term deal somewhere else and the braves are not going to give him more than 1 year because Pastronicky will be ready in 2013. Braves will have to trade for a SS during the off season and it will have to be someone with just one year left on his contract.
Great article about Chipper’s place among all 3rd baseman.
Chipper haters don’t read.
August 29th, 20111:27 am
SS next year, just bring up Pastornicky,and we get Infante as well……
August 29th, 20111:28 am
Bourn is exactly what the Braves have been missing and $8 million is reasonable for him. Braves need to be careful with the number of years he’s given. One, players get slower when they get older. Two, injuries affect speed guys more. And Three, stolen base guys tend to quit stealing bases after they get long term contracts.
August 29th, 20111:32 am
I would like to see Chipper play two more seasons but I don’t believe his knees will hold up one more season if he even makes it the rest of this year I will be surprised. I would much rather have a full time 3rd baseman than pay him $15mil to play part time.
August 29th, 20111:35 am
And thanks for the late-night, in the midst of some off days, surprise bloggage, DOB. Of course you didn’t have to do it, but we appreciate that you did! Good stuff with all of the numbers and comparisons. Juan Pierre was immediately who I thought of, when you mentioned comparisons right off the bat. Maybe the fact his contract has been pretty much universally panned will keep Bourn at a reasonable price, but with Boras you never know…
I’m with you though, if you can extend him with a reasonable deal, say 4-5 yrs at $8-9 per, then by all means go for it. But once you get well past that amount, I think they should hold off on an extension.
August 29th, 20111:40 am
Some of this might depend on Constanza too. Because right now, of course, he seems like he’s just riding a hot streak and likely isn’t the prototypical leadoff hitter that Bourn is. But say he finishes the year still on fire, still getting on base at a really good clip and stealing bases; he starts looking like an everyday player and capable leadoff man, and not the 4th OF/PR type player that pretty much everyone had him pegged as before his call up. Then maybe you do have a Bourn replacement internally…
August 29th, 20111:42 am
I liked Constanza,before the brought up,and he would be a great 4th out-fielder,and late defense in the 7th inning on up…….
August 29th, 20111:45 am
great article. Chipper is my favorite all time Brave and one of my top 5-6 players, but I’m not buying him as the second best 3rd baseman of all times. I’d rank him 4th or 5th.
August 29th, 20111:47 am
Chipper is not better than Edddie Mathews,but he is good……
August 29th, 20111:50 am
Would you rank Schmidt as the best all around?
August 29th, 20111:54 am
Juan Pierre was never on the White Sox before he was traded in 2009 to them. In 2006 the White Sox had Scott Podsednik playing LF. The only Juan on the team was Juan Uribe who played shortstop. Juan Pierre played for the Chicago CUBS in 2006 his only season with them.
Thanks for the article. Should have read it before asking about Schmidt, the second player I saw inducted (Seaver was first) in person at the Baseball Hall Of Fame.
August 29th, 20111:59 am
Just got to stay from a Scott Boras player. Bourn is a good fit here, but keeping him means dealing with Mr. Greed himself. Stay away from he who deals a losing hand.
August 29th, 20112:05 am
I think Bourn will do the honorable thing,and sign like Dan Uggla at a reasonable deal.My prediction………
August 29th, 20112:10 am
Boras is an ass and will try to bend the Braves over and take them for everything their worth this offseason. It will be the only time the Braves will have exclusive negotiating rights with Bourn. If they can get it done for 5/$40 you have to pull the trigger. Anything more than that and it becomes and upside down proposition. Like buying a car you can’t afford at a ridiculous interest rate.
Bourn is a solid player, but he is certainly not elite. He shouldn’t be paid 8 figures like an elite player. There’s a CF coming into free agency after 2012 that IS worth elite money. Cat by the name of Matt Kemp. If you’re gonna pay that kind of scratch, you gotta get the more complete player.
Every team that Bor-ass tries to fleece for Bourn is going to look at the Pierre deal and balk at the price. Don’t let him make Bourn out to be something he’s not…
August 29th, 20112:13 am
yes Schmidt first.at least of all the ones I’ve seen, which were all he mentioned except Home Run Baker
August 29th, 20112:16 am
Rowsdower: Perhaps you didn’t hear how well Bourn fit in with the players,and how he treated every one in the club house .He’s a nice kid,and we shouldn’t have problems…….
August 29th, 20112:17 am
Were you in the stands when Cobb spiked Home Run Baker in 1909?
August 29th, 20112:20 am
he’s not a kid. He is at the age when he will likely get his best contract ever, especially coming off his best season. I don’t see him signing cheap and giving up that opportunity with Boras as his agent. we’ll see.
Being a great fit is worth a few bucks, but not $2M per year. If he were a pain in the ass (see Lofton, Kenny), we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
no I missed that game, but Cobb was one of my favorite players.
August 29th, 20112:22 am
Rowsdower: what ever…………………
August 29th, 20112:23 am
Jethro Bodine: Very cool that you have actually been at the HOF induction ceremony. I really considering trying to go for Maddux and someday Chipper.
August 29th, 20112:26 am
I take it you disagree and you think the Braves should just give Bourn a blank check? Bourn is a great fit for the Braves, but that doesn’t make him more valuable on the open market. Boras will spin it that way and pit the Braves against themselves while every other team tells him to suck one.
Noliee: Who do you put in front of Chipper?
August 29th, 20112:28 am
I thought it was sorta picky a few years back when the Baseball Reference folks took a hit away from Cobb and dropped his lifetime average a point to .366. Sorta looks a bit pedestrian after seeing .367 by his name at the top of the heap all those years.
August 29th, 20112:30 am
hag , is that really you? if so, I guess the rumors of your demise were greatly exaggerated….
Bay Area Steve
August 29th, 20112:31 am
The ‘where’d haggard go’ stuff is about to reignite.
Character or not, good to see the name…
August 29th, 20112:32 am
Mathews and likely Brett, but that one is close.
August 29th, 20112:33 am
whatcha think about the third basemen BAS? You da man.
August 29th, 20112:34 am
I blame Tom O’. I have no reason to, but…
And, as a Tom O’ aside: nice to see VJ thwarted again. VJ pads stats like the hair-bears of the ’80s padded bras. There’s some paddin’ goin’ on, is what I’m sayin’.
But, no matter. Done thwarted, son.
August 29th, 20112:35 am
c’mon now, don’t ignore my question and hurt my feelin’ses BAS
August 29th, 20112:39 am
Don’t make me baseball-reference, noles. I’ve had a glass or two of this fine whiskey, and I only skimmed the earlier stuff.
Without looking (and I never really saw the others play), I gotta think Michael Jack, Pinetar, and the other Brave cat are ahead, right. Brooks has gotta be behind. And, are you guys saying Ty Cobb played third? I thought he was a four…
I’m sayin’ he’s fourth best all-time, with special consideration for bein’ a switch, and a one-team, WS-champ… Do I win?
alright be that way. I am gonna leave in a huff……..
August 29th, 20112:40 am
Wren will get it done. I can’t wait to watch him and contanza on the base paths the next few years.
Damn, noles. Can I get a second? A second? Some of us don’t hunt and peck all that well…
August 29th, 20112:41 am
just in time. yes you win. and Baker player third, Cobb just spiked him….maybe
Choppinmama, the book was very good, and the movie cast looks excellent. Beyond that, I have no idea how good it will be. No reviews yet.
By the way, had a couple of hours to do that blog, not couple of days. But thanks much for the kind words.
noliee: I would take Mathews over Brett,and Mike Schmidt over Brett,but that is just me.
August 29th, 20112:43 am
me too ward. I’d rank Brett and Chipper very close together behind those two
August 29th, 20112:47 am
noliee: Yeah, Like it………
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