Braves postgame quotes after Sunday’s win over Mets

CHIPPER JONES

On another GW hit in New York:

“It’s fun to do it anywhere. Especially when we were up 5-2, I put it shutdown mode. I wasn’t expecting to be in the game, really. But pressed into duty, just came up at the right time, good situation, and got one in the hole. It was a good win for us. We needed it, we needed it badly.”

On if it was one of those some-how, some-way wins:

“Yeah, we were up 5-2 and we felt like they kind of got back in the game little bleeder here and bloop there. I guess it’s fitting that one we got a couple at the end of the game to help us win. That guy is out there throwing 100 mph; it’s pretty difficult to square him up. We got two to fall in.”

On hitting with RISP this year (he’s hitting .394 with RISP):

“Yeah it’s kind of the one thing that’s kept me sane. Would I be happy hitting .250, .260, whatever I’m hitting – no, not normally. But the runners in scoring position average has been good. When they’ve been out there I’ve been able to pick them up. Just glad one found a hole today. I enjoy playing here in New York on this stage, and it’s rough and it’s chaotic but it’s fun at the same time.”

On if walking to the plate, like “bring it:”

“No, not bring it, because I hope that somewhere in the stands somebody was saying to themselves oh no. Not him. Not now. But it was a tough situation. We executed the bunt and got him to second and Fredi rolled the dice. He’s going to have to come at me or Ski at some point. He threw me three sliders in a row and I was able to guide one in the hole.”

On the series win:

“We lost two out of three in Washington. It’s a flip of the coin whether we win it or lose it here. And certainly a huge lift for us to come out of here two out of three, we’re 3-3 on the trip, no matter what happens the rest of the day, we maintain our wild card lead, and hopefully kick start us into a positive series in Florida.”

DAN UGGLA

On Chipper’s prowess vs. Mets:

“It never gets old. He likes playing against this team, especially in those kinds of situations. He’s been doing it for years. If there’s anybody that knows how to play under pressure, it’s Chipper. He got a huge hit, came in late in the game and played his butt off for us, saved the series. We needed that one.”

On if looking forward to taking the streak to Florida:

“Oh yeah. It’s always fun to go back to Miami, see my buddies, and also to compete against them. Hopefully we can get another sweep against them.”

On the hit streak:

“As long as we won it didn’t matter either way, but getting a hit in that last AB was pretty cool.”

MIKE MINOR

On his outing:

“I felt more confident this time, especially with the outing at home against Toronto and last couple outings in Gwinnett. We got the bats going early, helped me out a little bit. I had no pressure.”

On what he learned since Toronto:

“My last outing against Toronto, McCann was like hey, just throw the change-up hard. So I’ve been doing that. That’s what’s kept me in ballgames. They said they could see the arm speed slowing up on me. As a professional hitter, he can see that. I didn’t notice it. But him receiving the ball he could see it, so he knew the hitter could see that.”

FREDI GONZALEZ

On Chipper’s game-winner:

“He’s a big-time player and came up in that big situation. You know he’s going to put the ball in play it’s just a matter of finding a hole and we did. We finally found a hole with some people on base. You let a team hang around and we did today without adding on some runs in that middle part of the game, and they came back and tied it. But good for us, we got the W.”

On Constanza:

“He keeps doing a heck of a job, back-to-back home runs and he gets on base. Good for us. He adds a nice little spark to the lineup.”

On fourth inning run for him and Bourn:

“That’s the dynamic those two guys bring. It makes the defense uncomfortable.”

On Minor:

“I thought he did a nice job. I thought he deserved a better fate really, even Eric O’Flaherty there, he got two groundballs against those two lefties. You put the ball in play, stuff like that happens. They’re not an easy team to strike out. They put the ball in play.”

On Minor adjustments:

“He did great, he really, really did great. He deserves to get a W today.”

219 comments Add your comment

DLowe for Cy

August 7th, 2011
6:20 pm

“On Minor adjustments”

*rim shot*

STRETCH

August 7th, 2011
6:31 pm

Love my Bravos, but man…they have been struggling lately. Miss BMac, and Chipper shows what he can do when healthy but he will probably be hurt next weeek.

Get that extra bat!

Rowsdower

August 7th, 2011
6:43 pm

Already got the extra bat. His name is Constanza and he doing a fine job.

henry from TN

August 7th, 2011
6:48 pm

i live in nashville where it is a braves reds and cardinals market how many teams is atlanta the market for… i am retired i record and watch 2-3 games a day i love baseball and the braves are my favorite team go braves

virgilshouse

August 7th, 2011
6:54 pm

MCout has played his last game in a braves uniform

virgilshouse

August 7th, 2011
6:54 pm

MCout has played his last game in a braves uniform

BrianSC

August 7th, 2011
7:05 pm

Go Braves! Nice, much needed win.

Grind…Grind…Grind…Battle…Battle…Battle.

That is what the dogs days are all about. 13-13 in the last 26. Just hold it steady and let the hurt get well. The Braves need a healthy B-Mac, Chipper, and JJ. Bourn and Constanza have done great things for this team.

On to Florida. Let’s get a sweep!!!

I’m looking forward to this lineup. Whenever they get Chipper and B-Mac on a regular basis, there will be many possiblities. If you’re going to do the whole Constanza batting 9th thing, then do it. Commit to it. I could change this lineup several different ways.

1. Bourn CF
2. Prado LF
3. Chipper 3B
4. McCann C
5. Uggla 2B
6. Freeman 1B
7. Gonzo SS
8. Pitcher
9. Constanza RF

NickB

August 7th, 2011
7:06 pm

Prado only has 4 walks in the last 22 games!!!! (and only 1 BB in last 12 games)That’s troubling. He’s not getting on base either…. I’m hoping it’s due to a little weakness and getting back into the “swing” of things. Now his bABIP shows he’s been a bit unlucky (but he’s also been impatient at the plate) We need him back to a .360 OBP guy again)

In other metric news it appears that Heyward is starting to get that strike zone patience he showed last year as he has 5 walks in the past week. If he continues to keep being patient and taking free passes, eventually he will start to get better stuff to hit.

ph

August 7th, 2011
7:10 pm

I like this lineup. I would like to say J Hey in there, but there isn’t room at the moment with how he has played this year. But that is a dangerous 9-6.
1. Bourn CF
2. Prado LF
3. Chipper 3B
4. McCann C
5. Uggla 2B
6. Freeman 1B
7. Gonzo SS
8. Pitcher
9. Constanza RF

Rowsdower

August 7th, 2011
7:14 pm

Nick, he has also been hitting behind the runner a lot. Sacrificing himself for the good of the team. Couple that with his liners at people and you can understand why his numbers are slipping.

He’s a professional hitter. He will be fine.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
7:20 pm

I appreciate what Constanza has done, but his minor league stats tend to show he doesn’t get near enough extra base hits. (seriously in the last two seasons in AAA he has 28 xtra base hits combined!!) Now that doesn’t mean he won’t be able to be a contributing player to the team. But eventually his being a singles hitter only is going to catch up to him…. But then again, there ARE players who out performed their minor league numbers when they got the show and were able to maintain it for awhile. However, if Heyward turns it around (which the increased plate discipline shows he just might be doing) eventually Heyward will need those starts. He’s the better overall hitter.

Nick P.

August 7th, 2011
7:21 pm

mets r best, where are you, i cant find you or see your name? you promised not to be a coward, where are you?

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
7:22 pm

NickB, we all understand you want to use metrics to prove your case on anything. Then please explain to me why the developers of SABER have stated in repeated interviews, most recently Colin Cowherd’s ESPN radio show…………that the metrics system is flawed. And there is absolutely no possible way to determine a players defensive performance. Doubt me, look it up. I am sure it is a podcast of that show about a month maybe 2 months ago. My question to you though, since you are obviously smarter than anybody else because you use “metrics”, is the WAR (wins above replacement)…..How is the back-up player taken into account in those numbers? Constanza is Bourn’s backup so that means that Bourn is a lesser performer because of it? Is who the pitcher they are facing taken into account? or is the pitcher for his team taken into account? I honestly would like an honest answer and not some…….I know more than you because I look at different stats…….seriously Mr Nick……..I am curious.

Braves fan in NY

August 7th, 2011
7:22 pm

Living in ny i cant wait to razz mets fans at work tomorrow,,

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
7:28 pm

Just be careful there fan in NY….I hear they carry shanks everywhere. LOL. But seriously…How sweet was it that a man wearing a Braves jersey caught Gonzo’s HR?

NickGranite

August 7th, 2011
7:29 pm

I’ve noticed the same thing Nick B. Maybe Chipper ought to be in the 2 hole until Prado snaps out of it.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
7:30 pm

Sacrifices are a waste of a PA though. Now they ARE preferable to popups, K’s and double plays. But it would be much better if he was getting on base instead. This season he hasn’t shown the ability to get on base he has previously (now Prado IS a very batting avg dependent on base hitter. His OBP tends to be around .040 points higher than his avg. because he doesn’t take many walks.)But he isn’t driving the ball at nearly the same rate he did the last 2 years…. But his bABIP is lower than usual, so he may just be having an unlucky year when it comes to balls in play. I honestly think that RIGHT NOW while Constanza hasn’t been scouted to death, it might be wise to drop prado down in the order.

Bourn
Constanza
Freeman
Uggla
Chipper
Prado
Ross
Gonzo
(against lefties anyway, when Chip sits move Prado up and put Heyward there)

I agree Prado will be fine eventually, but it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to see his plate patience and ability to drive the ball is down a bit this season. Looks similar to Heyward…. Yeah I pretty much think Parrish’s “aggressive” attack plan for the offense is terrible and wastes PA’s and outs…. Patience patience patience….

panamajack

August 7th, 2011
7:30 pm

We need to add another pitcher to the roster, someone that can be used for long relief with our starters getting bombed after only 3 or 4 innings, probably best candidate is Delgado who could replace Proctor who is useless.

Dirty Dawg

August 7th, 2011
7:33 pm

NickB is absolutely right to bring up Prado and Heyward. Anybody that watched that game today could have told you that the correct ‘move’ when they double-switched and brought Chipper in the game, would have been to sit Prado and left Jason in. Not only is Prado not where he needs to be offensively, his defense has suffered as well. That botched play in left almost cost us the game and frankly Mr. Simpson, if I were O’Flarety (sp?) I’da reacted even stronger. Constanza would have made the play without breaking stride.

I hope I’m right about Heyward cause we’re gonna need him if we expect to hold onto the wild-card slot.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
7:34 pm

Sacrifices are a wasted PA? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I respect you Nick because you seem to know a lot about baseball but that is completely wrong. Runner on 1st with 0 outs and pitcher up. Since sacrifices are a waste then let the pitcher swing. Dude it is the oldest philosophy in baseball. Get them on get them over get them in. Small ball. That is what has been missing from this team of power hitters. And you say sacrifices are a waste? They put runners in scoring position. Metrics are a waste, I am sorry but they are.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
7:37 pm

Proctor is useless? He is useful when used correctly. 1 ER in his past 7 IP. That is useless?

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
7:37 pm

even Ron Gant called out larry parish today for the ultra-aggressive approach. not working. they always do better when they are patient. i remember prado ALWAYS taking one pitch. what is going on with him? not worried though. he’s entitled to a small slump like anybody else. he’s not a robot.

Rowsdower

August 7th, 2011
7:44 pm

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one, NickB. From a metric standpoint, yes, sacrificing yourself is a wasted PA. From a winning standpoint it is absolutely crucial. A 2 hole hitter is counted on to move the runner over so the middle of the lineup can eat. That is their primary function. Prado isn’t thinking about his metrics when he sees Bourn standing on 2nd. He’s thinking about hitting the ball to the right side. If it gets through, great, if not, he’s done his job and will get a bunch of high fives when he gets back to the dugout.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
7:46 pm

High 5 on that one Rowsdower

wallypip

August 7th, 2011
7:52 pm

OK. Good win but what the heck is wrong with Prado? Is it because he’s having to bop back and forth between third and left? He just isn’t himself at all, either at the plate or in the field. For most of the past two seasons, Prado’s taken the first pitch no matter what. Then today, Bourn gets on in front of him the first two times and both times Prado swings at the first pitch, doesn’t even give Bourn a chance to run. Wacky.

I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that this team will never operate on all cylinders. If that were to happen, we’d have a juggernaut on our hands. But it’s always something. I’d never have expected Prado to flake out like he’s been flaking out. I think Constanza should be hitting in the two hole. Sorry, JHey. The sad numbers don’t lie. Bourn and Constanza at the top of the order would create absolute havoc….Can’t wait to see it happen. C’mon Freddi, write out that lineup card.

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
7:53 pm

NickB………….

Yes that is real logical…..look at what he did in the minors in the past and then say oh he can’t do what he’s doing today in the bigs………..

Yes that makes sense NickB…..you must want him to fail, is that it…..?

Give him his due….everyone on the team is loving it….even Jason may be since it takes the pressure off of him to produce in a way; maybe that’s why he hit his dinger today…he realizes he doesn’t have to do it all…..and just maybe “if that “little guy” can do that so can I”…..

NickB

August 7th, 2011
7:54 pm

@ Joeseph I don’t really like the defensive metrics that much either… But there is oWAR which is purely based offf of offense. Replacement player is a word. It’s based off of some logarithm involving the avg performance at each position for that season(and different positions are the weighted seperately) Now , that being said I am not of the opinion that WAR is an actual representation of actual wins above a replacement player. Now do I find it to be useful when comparing say a SS with a Catcher or a CF’er with a 2B guy. But it IS useful when comparing players who play the same position because they are all weighed the same. It just gives you a simple number of which to compare…… But WAR shouldn’t be the be all and end all IMO. Nor should the arcane nature of DEFENSIVE saber stats cast shados over the pitching and offensive ones. They are all based off of ACTUAL events and are just different combo’s of numbers. OPS is of course OBP+SLG, OPS+ is the players OPS relative to league avg then multiplied X 100 so as to remove ballpark effects and give an even more accurate portrayal of the player VS the rest of the league that year. (100 being avg). BABIP is the batting avg on balls in play, this shows pretty much how lucky or unlucky a batter has been as all players maintain a relatively stable BABIP over their careers. When guys have down years, it tends to drop. Career years, it tends to be the year all the seeing eye singles and popups found holes….

FIP – fielding independent pitching shows what a pitchers results are over things they control (walks, K’s, hit by pitch and hR’s) it removes the effect of balls in play as once a ball is in play a pitcher has no control of the result. It tends to project give or take 10-20% of a pitchers career ERA and also shows if someone is pitching over their head or not. It can also show an improvement trend….
WHIP, you know that, walks hits/innings pitched a nice easy little number to see how good a pitcher is at keeping guys off base….

WAR, I can see the argument there , the methodology is complex and the “replacement level” math seems arcane as well as the use of defensive metrics. But most SABER stats are based on real numbers combined in different manners to get a BETTER handle on ACTUAL performance that impacts the game in the most efficient manner. Think of it like an expansion on hits versus total bases. The counting stats are analogous to hits. (”hey he got 190 hits, he’s better than this guy who only got 160 hits!!”) modern metrics are analagous to total bases (” yeah he got 190 hits but 160 of em were singles 4 HRS 25 doubles and 1 triple for 227 total bases!! player B got 100 singles 25 HR’s, 32 doubles and 3 triples for 273 total bases!) thats a simplification, but you get my drift. These numbers aren’t made up nonesense , they actually give a better glimpse at what’s going on and what’s actually valuable

Brave New World

August 7th, 2011
7:55 pm

If Parrish is the one tampering with Heyward (this year) then he needs to be fired (IMO, Parrish needs to be fired, period). Heyward used to be patient at the plate when he was raking early last year, but Bobby insisted he should be more aggressive. When you are a rare talent like Heyward, the last thing people need to do is fill your head with new approaches. Heyward will be the star everyone predicted, if not this year, soon and for years to come. Watch Chipper – he will wait for a pitch he can drive even if it means getting called out on strikes. He’s in total control in the batter’s box, the way J-Hey used to look.

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
7:56 pm

Remember Prado’s first game back from that Staph infection in his leg:? He homered and came up big time…..

…but when interviewed he said among other things…..”…..I’m not a machine”…..

cheif knockahoma

August 7th, 2011
7:59 pm

if you guys want an extra bat, there is a guy down in AAA by the name of stefan, i cant remember his last name but he is leading the league in almost every major offensive category including home runs(he has 24) slugging pct, etc. he plays right field and i say bring him with the september call ups and see what he can do. who knows he might be the next constanza.

"Chef" Tim Dix

August 7th, 2011
7:59 pm

Watching Prado in left I think he even wondered, “Why am I here?”

Brave New World

August 7th, 2011
7:59 pm

Nick P. August 7th, 2011 7:21 pm
mets r best, where are you, i cant find you or see your name? you promised not to be a coward, where are you?

Being a coward.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
8:01 pm

Nick, again a problem. How can you remove the home park? Turner field compared to Coors or Cincy? I respect your view but I contend they are just numbers.

I be back in about 2 hours. The wife wants to do a dang fantasy football draft. Keep it sane my friends.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
8:03 pm

did none of you read what I wrote after the first sentence? It IS a wasted PA if the ATTEMPT is just sacrifice (unless it’s someone terrrrrible like a pitcher, or it’s the bottom of the 9th or later at home to win the game) if the ATTEMPT is to produce a hit and if not to move the runner up that’s different. But to waste a PA on an intentional sacrifice has been mathmatically proven to be a bad move….. (yes they put every PA into a computer and did the math on likelhood of scoring from 1st with no outs versus 2nd with one out…etc it’s better to attempt to get a hit)

Joseph you can say they are garbage all you want. But it really is like saying that you don’t believe in gravity or the speed of light or the pythagorean theorem. These are proven mathmatical formulas…… It’s not made up stuff.

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
8:04 pm

All you off the wall stat-centric folks….why don’t you ask Nolan Ryan, Stan Musial, Hank Aaron or Willie Mays what so and so’s WAR of FIP is…..? ….or most of the others…..

You know what the game is about guys?

See the ball coming…..”hit it where they ain’t”

That phrase was the deep scientific statistical revelation that “Wee Willie Keeler” espoused….

Fantastic…..385 lifetime avg….read a bit of this and see if it makes you smile or not….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Keeler

afan

August 7th, 2011
8:07 pm

If I ever hear a negative comment about Chipper again I will go crazy, If you do not understand you are watching not only a true hall of famer but a clutch player who ranks withthe best all tine

NickB

August 7th, 2011
8:07 pm

@Joseph here go to this link http://www.fangraphs.com/library/ and click on glossary, it will give you the full readout on how all the stats are calculated

Brad in KY

August 7th, 2011
8:08 pm

The comments by those criticizing advanced metrics reveal how little they actually know about advanced metrics. Hilarious, really. It’s kind of silly to critique something you haven’t even tried to understand!

Uggla, no Struggla, now Huggla

August 7th, 2011
8:10 pm

I finally figured it out…..quit thinking all the scientific stuff and keep my eye on the ball….and hit it hard somehere….anywhere, just hit it.

Since I did that life has been good again….getting lots of Hugs too….

NickB

August 7th, 2011
8:12 pm

@the truth……

you can have wee willie keeler, I will take Ted Williams.

The stats weren’t invented when those guys you mentioned played. But if you look at Ruth,Ted, Gehrigs numbers….. tops in OPS tops in OBP, they got on base, they hit for power they didn’t make outs….. all advanced stats do is show this in greater detail. It also gets behind the mythology of batting avg for hitters, RBI’s for hitters and wins for pitchers…. If you’d like to have that argument I’m more than prepared

Rick

August 7th, 2011
8:15 pm

“We need to add another pitcher to the roster, someone that can be used for long relief with our starters getting bombed after only 3 or 4 innings, probably best candidate is Delgado who could replace Proctor who is useless.”

That is Cristhian Martinez’s role. He isn’t exactly the best pitcher in the bullpen but he usually does a decent job in that role.

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
8:19 pm

I think the team should study all of these metrics on the way to Miami right now….that’d really help them big time, wouldnt’ it…..

Especially Georgie….be sure and show him all of the metrics for his years in the minors, bus trips, etc….

“Qué pasa con esta basura?

translated roughly…..What’s with this garbage?

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
8:21 pm

OK Georgie…..don’t change anything….

And whoever has been messing with Venters…..stop it !

Whoever has been packing Heyward’s head and messing with his patient approach…stop it….

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
8:32 pm

@NickB

Bet you a dollar to a donut that “Ted Willias and Stan Musial” didn’t give a hoot about coming up with endless statistics… All of this infatuation with applying endless stats to a game involving humans, human judgment, the wind, the rain, turf, maple vs hickory bats, baseballs in humidors and on and on…is for you and the others that really want to spend endless amounts of time second guessing what the guys are doing on the field and in the dugouts….

Enjoy your stats, it’s ok if you want to immerse yourself in them….I’m in love with the game of baseball …. not some math geeks efforts to run the game like it was a rocket going to the moon…..

It isn’t rocket science dude….Wee Willie was right…. and by the way NickB, when you’re convering second base and you see Ty Cobb coming towards you, be sure and grab your stat sheets and get the h@ll out of the way….

Largo

August 7th, 2011
8:33 pm

Chipper Chipper Chipper! The comments are all about Chipper. He rolls one through the infield, knocks in a run and he’s the fn King of Baseball. I don’t remember reading anything about the guys who hit the home runs. Same old crap.

BRAVESFAN

August 7th, 2011
8:34 pm

What about Heyward’s home run, you’ve gotta tip your hat to that or the bottom of the lineup today.

Go Braves!

NickB

August 7th, 2011
8:36 pm

teams DO study these metrics!! It started out only a few did. But after the success that those teams had with either meager budgets and performing well or with the success of the Red Sox. All of the teams have saber statisticians on the staff. I’m not saying that the hitters need to know all this stuff. (in fact I’d argue that time would be better spent studying film of upcoming pitchers and/or hitters to help improve their performance) remember stats don’t improve a hitter or a pitcher. They just show what they did. Over a large enough sample size they show what we can EXPECT them to do in the future. They show trends, they show HOW a slump is occurring , they show if a player has been playing over their heads during streaks or are they getting very unlucky? Knowing the whys and hows could help confidence (or hurt it I reckon) but it’s just data. It’s information to be used by the mgr or GM or scout or fan….etc to determine player performance over a given length of time. These numbers have really only made 2 significant changes in the game of baseball since their inception. They have shown the importance of getting on base as a hitter (and thus the the importance of not allowing runners on base as a pitcher) and they have shown that runs scored and RBI’s are more a symbol of a total teams offensive production versus an individual player. (thus shown that ERA and WINS alone aren’t always the best way to judge a pitcher )…. Everything else is just an EASIER way to combine the normal numbers and get a simple number on which to view what used to take a giant spreadsheet and hrs of time. (thank you the home computer!!)

Bruce Benedict

August 7th, 2011
8:36 pm

When B-Mac returns I like the following lineup for 3, 4, 5, 6;

3. B-Mac
4. Uggla
5. Freeman
6. Chipper

L-R-L-R – Solid.

Go Braves!

NickB

August 7th, 2011
8:42 pm

@ the truth…

yeah i played the game for a good while (well through HS) and I watch the games. and I don’t have to pile through endless stats and numbers cuz i can go to eith baseball reference or fangraphs and someone else has done that for me. It’s not trying to run it like a rocket ship, it’s trying to run it correctly. I frankly don’t care what Keeler would have said about stats. Cuz he’s dead. He would probably say the internet was a fad…. that’s not an argument!!! Copernicus would’nt have been interested in Einstein’s Relativity equation either. Because he would have been scared of most of it and thought the rest was heretical or blasphemous…. That doesn’t make Relativity incorrect!

Hit A Single

August 7th, 2011
8:49 pm

Largo – The bottom line is that we had one hit with runners in scoring position and Chipper got it today. Thank God or we may have had another 19 inning affair. Good job Chipper and probably tomorrow night we will have another hero.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
8:54 pm

Nick, Really? Gravity? You are grabbing at straws to try to prove a point.

I admit there are something to be learned from various souces, but to solely put metrics up is wrong. How does metric numbers account for who the opposing pitcher is on a given day? Or does it take into account what division said player plays in and the pitchers he has to face 18 times each season? Your metrics is full of holes and you have failed to answer one of them.

Next time you mention my name Nick please have some facts and not some arbitrary sentiment that you want to hold onto.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:00 pm

ok, here’s how they eliminate park effects. they avg all of the runs together. so the weighting is equal across the board then they ratio the pitchers performance vs that avg. SEE? thats how that works.

The giving pitcher is that day? How does that have any difference when figuring someones OPS ? versus batting avg? What on earth are you talking about?

Oh and by the way, I listed about 5 or 6 metrics above AND listed how they are calculated.

TONE-TONE

August 7th, 2011
9:00 pm

LARGO…….I agree totally with you. That soft roller was just a lucky
draw of the straw, by CHIPPER. People just love this wash up and
injury prone guy. By 8/10/11, he will be back on the disable list with
a toe nail jam. Just think of the money the braves would save by
letting this guy retire.

CHIPPER only has warning track power and is making all of that
money. As much as he talks, he needs to produce the same.

NICK B……. I AGREE WITH YOU! But, this is not research
writing 101. Your post is as long as the MISSISSIPPI RIVER.

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
9:05 pm

@NickB

I’m sure if you were running the Braves instead of Frank Wren, or managing instead of Fredi the Frustrating, the Braves would be in first place and looking back at all the others.

Sure stats are real numbers….but you know what? When Bill Mazeroski hit the 9th inning home run to give the Pirates the World Series Championship in 1960…

I guess if the Yankees had been “enlightened” by the all the metrics of today they would have walked him?

Oct. 13, 1960

Leading off in the bottom of the ninth, Pittsburgh Pirate second baseman Bill Mazeroski hit a home run over the left-field wall to win the World Series against the New York Yankees. It was the first time a home run had ever ended a World Series. According to reports, Ted Szafranski, 13, caught the ball but returned it to Mazeroski after the game in exchange for two cases of beer. The ball has since been placed in the Hall of Fame.

panamajack

August 7th, 2011
9:06 pm

Rick, I understand Martin who are you going to send in thenez role in long relief but what are you going to do if Lowe blows in the third inning and you send in Martinez to pitch 3 innings and tomorrow Hanson pitches 3 innings and he blows who are you going to send in then, then the next day Hanson blows after the second inning, get the point? Thats the way its been going lately, we need another long relief man more than we need Proctor.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:07 pm

The pitcher that given day has no effect? Ok let’s go old school if we will. So the batters that had to face Nolan Ryan in their division had the same effect as those that didn’t? More modern…..THe batters that faced Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Hudson(both in ATL and OAK) they are weighed the same as batters that never faced them? Are you missing the point Mr Nick? Your stats are flawed and you hold them holy that is the problem. I admit there is some knowledge to be gained from expanded stats, but to put all your eggs into one basket is fundamentally wrong.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:07 pm

I never said anything about just using metrics. I said that they are BETTER at rating performance. Explain to me how batting average is a better way to gauge hitting than OBP or OPS? Explain to me how WINS are a better way to judge the quality of a pitcher over ERA+ or FIP? Explain to me why fielding % is a better way to gauge defense than range factor or even UZR? I’ve listed several FACTS sir. I have explained several methods of calculation of said FACTS .

Gravity is the PERFECT analogy to this (well really Relativity is) I understand it’s normal! someone who is afraid that something they once held to be true is proven to be inaccurate(or not be what they once thought to be so) they become defensive, dismissive of the new information and angry towards those who would dare say such a thing! But it’s true. Wee Wille Keller may have hit .366 for his career, but .344 hitting Ted Williams was a FARRR better player (cuz he got on base more and hit with more power)

EDIMGIAFAD

August 7th, 2011
9:09 pm

Good series win, but getting worried about the pitching. It’s a good thing that the hitting is improving. I have to wonder if Teheran is going to have to come up and help.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:09 pm

Truth I went to Pitt. THe wall is still there from Forbes field. the home plate is in the mens bathroom (original one that is) there is a replica of home plate in the hallway of the “quad” today. Fun stat.

hal

August 7th, 2011
9:11 pm

err excuse me whats a rocket surgeon?

panamajack

August 7th, 2011
9:15 pm

I meant to say first line: Rick I understand Martinez role in long relief but what are you going to do if Lowe blows in the 3rd inning and you send in Martinez to pitch 3 innings and tomorrow Hanson pitches 3 innings and he blows who are you going to send in, then the next day JJ blows after 2 innings, get the point, thats the way its been going lately, we need another long relief man more than we need Proctor.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:15 pm

Ummm, yer forgetting something ….. all stats have this exact same thing going on. We can only judge a player versus their era , the people they faced.

Park effect just creates and avg of all the runs so as to eliminate the ball park effect. I think you are trying to somehow say that because one guy pitched this one day in this one park…… that’s not how this all works. This is just eliminating any statistical anomoly caused by the effect one ballparks dimensions have over another. That’s it. It’s making an avg like if you had 5 balls that all held different amounts of liquid but their total was 20 (giving each an avg of 4) but ball A held 7 (coors field lets say) and ball B held 3(San Fransisco or San Diego)…..these stadiums produce a relative ratio of hits versus league avg every year. So that year the parks are averaged and then the data used as the basis for each individual pitcher so that they are all coming from the same playing field. (I mean seriously this is some brokedown stuff) But it al works, you pull up any HOF pitcher their FIP to ERA ratio is going to be within 10-15% of their career ERA. You pull up the top 10 hitters of all time in your mind.. ya know, the Ruth’s Ted Williams Aaron Mays…etc they are all in the top in OPS+……. It’s just a deeper dive.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:16 pm

@hal it’s a silly way of combining “it’s not braing surgery!” with ” it’s not rocket science!”

Rowsdower

August 7th, 2011
9:18 pm

@Panamajack – We have another long man, unfortunately he still resides in the rotation…

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:19 pm

Well Nick you seem defensive for a reason I assume. Ok Fine I will endulge you sir.

A pitcher’s record is meaningless. A man goes 7 innings and leaves with a 1 run lead and doesn’t get a decision? A pitchers job is not to get wins but to allow his team to stay in the game. Sorry if that is too simple for you.

FInd one comment where I said AVG was the end all be all? You can’t because I haven’t. OBP and OPS isn’t metrics. They have been around since before this fad started ((sorry to ruin you idea of history). OBP is a real idea of what a player does and how he performs, yet it doesn’t account for giving one’s self up to move a runner over.

You earlier admitted that the inventors of this SABER thing were right when they said there is no way possible to gauge a players defensive performance and now you ask me to debate you on something that you admit is unevaluateable? Grow up and stop getting defensive. You want to live in a metric world fine. Go for it. But I do have a problem when you try to look down you nose as you do reapeatedly to people that want logic instead of arbitrary numbers. By your Metric holy numbers……..Constanza never should have been on the roster. Look at your holy fangraphs. Yeah I know about them. Next time pick someone that doesn’t do research sir.

Rowsdower

August 7th, 2011
9:19 pm

It’s also from Trailer Park Boys. Another Rickyism.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:22 pm

@ the truth… hell no they wouldn’t walk him! He wasn’t that great of a hitter!!

I think you people are under some kind of guise like I’m saying you can predict future performance like on a game by game basis? Oh hell no … That’s not what this is about at all. When I say predict future performance I mean long term. I’m referring to seeing a trend of production. Remember we are talking about a game that if you fail to reach base 6 out of 10 times over your career you are probably heading to the HOF….. Nothing can predict game by game performance. Just like nothing can predict the lottery numbers or if I’m going to get hit by a car tomorrow. All these numbers do is show you what they did and how they did it. It digs through the chaff to get to the wheat. It shows you that (over a large enough sample size of course) you can expect player A to be this type of player. Or “wow, player A had a monster year last year! but is this what we can expect from now on? Or do the numbers show he will probably regress to prior career averages?”

It’s not soothsaying mumbo jumbo…. It’s just stats. In fact I expect that in 10 years many of these stats will be on the back of baseball cards (and the pitching metrics have already determined last years AL Cy Young winner)

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:27 pm

Nick???? YOU PEOPLE? Defensive maybe? Try not being aggressive. You point although I admit I disagree with it, is lost in your aggression. YOU PEOPLE?

[...] Atlanta Braves [...]

Navigator

August 7th, 2011
9:29 pm

At this time of year you find out who’s a winning pitcher, and so far the jury’s out on all of the starters and most of the relievers. Chipper proves more valuable coming off the bench and pinch hitting. He badly missed the ball, but was able to guide it between first and second. Young hitters probably don’t do that. They now have an abundance of speed, which is already taking affect on the other team. However, is the manager able to pull the pitcher at the right time (not so far), and will he leave in the speed, or go back to using Chipper at third and Prado in the outfield?

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:32 pm

Navigator? Pull the pitcher at the right time? Since you are smarter than the manager when would you have pulled Minor?

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
9:34 pm

I’m betting Ted Williams didn’t studfy physics to make him the all time greatest hitter (depending on whose opinion you get)…..

No I’ll bet his approach was much like “Wee Willie’s”…..see the ball and hit it….where they ain’t….

Why not carry your stats to more depth like batting stance, bat size and weight, bat size and weight related to batter’s size, position in the batter’s box, hitters batting in front of and behind the subject…..injuries to second basemen, injuries to second basemen when a left handed pitcher is pitching vs a RH pitcher????

I think you might want to saunter on over to the Capitol Avenue Club with the other totally absorded Statistical Analysis gurus and really enjoy yourself ….they love that stuff over there….here we’re just enjoying a kid’s game….of course a long comes a bunch of adults and screws it up….

Have a good time…

http://capitolavenueclub.com/

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:35 pm

I say you people all the time…. I could’ve typed y’all but i always forget where to put the dadburn punctuation! :-)

Yu are being aggressive. You accuse me of not presenting facts (and i have) you offer no facts of your own to back up your case. Then you say it’s my opinion (when it isn’t an opinion, just like Gravity isn’t an opinion nor Relativity not black holes……) these are confirmed facts…

Like I said, explain to me how batting average is a superior statistic to demonstrate offensive production over OPS or OBP.
Explain to me how WINS is better than WHIP, FIP and even K/BB ratio when determining pitching production.
Explain to me how RBI’s are a legitimate representation of an individuals batters production and not indicative of the quality of the surrounding players.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:41 pm

the truth………..

I enjoy the game too. I’m a student of the game. I watched the incredible documentary by Ken Burns til the VHS tape darn near wore out. I read every book I can. I used to be just like many of y’all who don’t want to deal with the new numbers (I’m 38 not 23) I thought it was probably just malarky… But then I read some of Bill James books, started looking more into it. Read some of Robb Neyers analysis and realized that they were right. These numbers make the game better by providing a better tool for the mgr’s ,gm’s coaches, fans scouts..etc to use to determine player value. It’s foolish to not take advantage of more information when it’s available. It makes any blogged rants on here, more informed , more educated and better constructed. It gives you the fan the ability to go ” Wow, Prado isn’t hitting a lick lately… I wonder why?” and be able to click a few buttons and not only have the information, but know what it means. None of these things will make an individual player “better” Ted Williams doesn’t need to know what his OPS+ is. But I bet he would’ve dug into opposing pitcher’s stats to try and find holes or weaknesses!!

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:42 pm

I couldn’t said it better my friend truth. Although I hate advertising another blog but tip of the cap sir.

How old are you NIck? ” no i not aggressive you are”. Grow up son. And I call you son, if you want to try and question me there……..I served 10 years in the US ARMY, also gave up a baseball scholarship to do so. So just maybe I might know a little bit about a game I was good enough at playing to earn a scholarship even though I turned it down to serve my country. What about you?

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
9:45 pm

if you all want to REALLY be freaked out….check out Arizona’s remaining schedule in Sept. then compare to ours….we have some seriously stressful days ahead….

this is why we need one 15 team division… the scheduling in baseball is SO SO OUT OF BALANCE.

Uggla, no Struggla, now Huggla

August 7th, 2011
9:45 pm

NickB

Now let me get this right. I have been reading all you guys talking about this math stuff. I thought this blog thing was about baseball.

I guess that you mean that Georgie can not play up here with all of us Phds with a chaw in our cheek cause he’s just a little 5-9 guy that spent 7 years riding buses?

Is that what you are saying? Does that mean that home run today did not count?

Tell you what…we’d appreciate it if you don’t tell little Georgie he can’t do this stuff because some body read his numbers from when he spent lots of time riding buses in between games.

No wonder he doesn’t speak English after all those years up here. I do not blame him a bit; if he did he might screw up and read those numbers and find out he can not do what he is doing.

Please stay as far away from our little Georgie as we want Parish to stay away from the hitters.

Please

Busch leaguer

August 7th, 2011
9:46 pm

Damn if I had known all the math that was involved I would have changed my major in college. I may be a moron as Nick B has mentioned on this blog . But all i can say ,today my team the Reds scored 5 runs and our opponents the Sox scored 1 run. We won 5 to 1. I am not sure what math formula you would use , But 5 is more than 1. Simple enough I guess, from a moron’s perspective.

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
9:48 pm

when is GEORGIE bobble-head night?

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:50 pm

Uggla struggla…wtvr

I’m saying that Constanza is probably going to regress to his normal numbers eventually in the big leagues. It may start tomorrow, it may start 3 weeks from now, it may start in April of next year, but He’s obviously not going to keep hitting .423….. I’m not saying anything against him. He’s hot, we need him in the lineup, but if Heyward continues to improve his patience at the plate eventually he is going to become the more valuable player due to his power… But , right now, sure we ride the hot hand

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:50 pm

Busch you take the sarcastic hole award. And sir that was damn funny. I am sitll laughing typing thins lol

Stick

August 7th, 2011
9:52 pm

Batting avg with runners in Scoring Position: Atl – 1 for 13.

How in the world do we win this game with that avg??

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
9:52 pm

Nick. he was batting between .275-.300 in the minors….would that not be good enough to bat 7th or 8th? yep, sure would.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:52 pm

Nick? What are Constanza’s normal numbers in the majors? Oh I guess AAA pitching is exactly the same as the majors right?

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:52 pm

@ busch leaguer………….sigh

the argument I stated above is valid , if anyone can prove to me why the new stats are inferior to batting avg rbi’s and pitchers wins, have at it. Bringing up ridiculous comments that have no bearing on what we are discussing is rather unfortunate isn’t it?

Von Trapp

August 7th, 2011
9:53 pm

Good going Bones Jones……………..You did serve das crow today. Velcome back. Ve hopes you stay awhiles.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:54 pm

Stick, who got the hit? Who has been hurt? I answer. Chipper got the hit today and he is playing hurt. McCann is on the DL. Maybe that has an effect? Just an idea.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
9:55 pm

Kimbrel Rocks, his slugging is awfully low though. Right now, I say he plays. But Heyward needs AB’s too. (and more than just once a week when Chipper sits) I think that Constanza should be taking AB’s from prado when we play right handers sometimes too… He’s struggling mightily and he hasn’t bee nvery productive of late. (whereas Heyward is at least starting to take walks again). It’s not a bad position to be in honestly….. Most teams don’t have the luxury of having to bench someone with an OPS over .700…….

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
9:58 pm

what the braves really need to figure out is how to get their pitchers on track. we are LAST in starter ERA since all-star break… think about that… the astros, padres, cubs, dodgers, etc ALL have a better ERA than ours. that is just unbelievable.

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
9:58 pm

You want proof Nick? What is Constanza’s fangraph? Oh wait this is the first time in what 7 or 9 years he has made a PA in a major league game? So explain how your metrics explain how AAA pitching is proof to what he is doing? You point to a number and just get defensive. Back up what you say.

I am sorry maybe you should take truth’s advice Nick. They hate Fredi there, you would fit right in.

Rowsdower

August 7th, 2011
10:00 pm

We can always put Heyward back in the 2 hole. At least those weak grounders to 2nd will be productive outs…

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
10:02 pm

@Nick- i was willing to give your post a real chance until i read you think prado should be benched b/c he’s batting .275 or so. come on man. really?

there will never be a day when martin prado is benched so that jason heyward can get at-bats…ever. the fact is that constanza is out playing heyward and will continue taking heyward’s playing time until otherwise. jason heyward has had plenty of at-bats to get on track. we are trying to win a title not rebuild for next year.

the truth...

August 7th, 2011
10:03 pm

NickB

We’re not here to prove anything to you; we’re here to talk baseball, not statistical analysis.

You’re the one here trying to make us feed at the trough of intellectual analysis of a kid’s game.

You’re the one spending hours trying to justify your infatuation with numbers…I bet Mr. Geithner would love for you to come help him….darn he couldn’t even use Turbo Tax. You would have saved his bacon and maybe our AAA rating…

You’re probably on of those folks in that town in S. Georgia that made the little girls close their lemonade stand? Were you involved it that too?

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
10:04 pm

Be careful Kimbrel. Nick will use metrics on you to show how stupid we all are. Let us watch and learn from the master. :)

Busch leaguer

August 7th, 2011
10:04 pm

Nick B ,I don’t question that your numbers may be valid .But today my starting pitcher pitched a complete game,struck out 8 walked 1 and gave up 1 earned run. It is a simple game ,you win some ,you lose some and once in a while it rains.I am of the opinion that all of the stats are fine in figuring out what happened after the game ,but have very little effect in determining whether a player can make the play in the moment during the game.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
10:04 pm

@ Joseph

Constanza’s avg last 2 years in AAA is .315, OBP of .367 and Slugging a paltry.356 (these are around his career minor league avgs for all three numbers give or take)

His problem has always been extra base hits apparently. Moving up to the show you would expect hm to probably hit .290/.350/.350 with a ton of singles (career high in extra base hits in A+ or higher ball in a season is 22 in 2009….not very good) He has value, especially how he’s tearing it up right now. I honestly had no idea he had so few doubles and triples….. How does a guy with that speed have so few doubles? (career minor league high in a season of A+ ball or higher is 18) wow, that almost ,literally seems impossible

NickB

August 7th, 2011
10:09 pm

I live in Mississippi ….so, not in Ga, and i don’t crunch numbers every day. I’m trying to help everyone here…. trying to get ya to stop being dependent on batting avg (heck if i did that I’d feel like I did sumthing)

Nothing in any stat can predict the next days game or any result. My entire point is to try and counter those who rant on here about this player sucks and this player doesn’t and blah blah blah (which, let’s be honest, is about 50% of all posts on here) by using poor numbers to back up said thesis…. They say he sucks, he’s batting .220, I say , yeah but his OPS is .715 he’s not doing as bad as it appears….. that’s all

Joseph

August 7th, 2011
10:10 pm

Nick yhou are right. Dump Bourn dump constanza and prado and the rest. Let’s just sign the guys with the highest slugging % for each position. Yup that is how you build a team. Go to the site Truth recommended. You are wrong and the more you argue the bigger the hole you are digging.

Are your honestly trying to tell us that minor league pitching is the same major league pitching? Honestly? You are grabbing at straws sir. Honestly. I am 41 years old. How old are you?

Kimbrel rocks

August 7th, 2011
10:10 pm

there is one thing that can’t be quantified in numbers to predict performance and that is HEART AND DRIVE. some players excel in a high pressure environment and just play mediocre when the stakes aren’t as high. shane victorino only became a “star” when he got to the big leagues. nobody really believed he would amount to much in the majors.

i’m not saying constanza will keep it up but there always needs to be some magic for a team to win. he’s our magic right now so let’s just be happy for the TEAM and not upset b/c whoever isn’t playing more.

NickB

August 7th, 2011
10:12 pm

I’m not trying to make anyone feel stupid. It’s when people argue that these things aren’t valid is when i get annoyed…… You can say ” I prefer not to dig that deeply into stats” and that would be fine. But to say ” that’s your opinion and I disagree with it” is intellectually dishonest. You have made a choice to not pay attention to these metrics, but that doth not make them invalid….. see my point?

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