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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,545 comments Add your comment
CB
July 17th, 2011
7:21 pm
Hush,Petrel.
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:23 pm
Do we want to burn him on someone who isnt proven in the majors?
In all seriousness, Blank, the reason to do this is controlability and payroll effiiciency. ANd while 147 ABs in MLB is not a ton, Cain did OPS .763 in that time with MIL.
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:24 pm
Texas – look at JJ’s stats this year. They are a statistical outlier. He has been really tough when they have had men on base. This isnt because he suddenly gets better stuff when people are on base, its basic luck. JJ is a top pitcher but he isnt an ace. We need to trade him now because we wont be able to sign him to a long term deal. Lets get some return on the guy and pack him off for CF rental and some prospects. It would improve us this year and alot in the future. I dont think JJ’s second half performance will be that far above what tehran/minor could give us.
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:24 pm
Also as nolee said, he is 25, for speedy players 25 is already pretty old. By 30 those type of players will begin to decline.
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:27 pm
JJ’s numbers this year are unusually good, but not unreasonable when you look at his 2009 season which I think is closer to what his “norm” will be, and they are real good numbers. 2010 doesn’t even register in my book, and that is the year I see as the outlier with his being hurt all year.
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:28 pm
By 30 those type of players will begin to decline.
Good thing the Braves wouldn’t need him for more years than the club could control him then isn’t it.
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:28 pm
Texas 147 ab proves nothing. As braves fans we know this. Look at Frenchy and Heyward. They were amazing but now both are almost worthless because teams have found the massive holes in their swings and just pound on them to make both players below average offensive RF
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:29 pm
so no JJ for Cain, TFor?
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:31 pm
Not unless you officially endorse that deal, noles, LOL
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:32 pm
I think unless wren can pick up a Rh reliable bullpen guy or an proven ML CF lead off man then he shouldnt make a trade unless it is with the best long term interests of the braves. Trading for a corner outfielder would be ridiculous. Which means with wren we cant rule it out, but getting quentin would be nonsense because we have prado and heyward who arent going anywhere.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:32 pm
nah I’ll pass on that one, too
njbraves
July 17th, 2011
7:33 pm
Blankster…..come on man…there is no reason to trade JJ..none. He’s young, good, and affordable. When the time comes to pay him, you offer your best and see what happens.
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:34 pm
You just called Heyward worthless Blankster. You and I obviously reside in different baseball universes and should therefore agree to disagree while the conversation is still amicable. We will see how it all shakes out, and in the meantime I assume we will both be rooting for the Braves to win which is all that matters at the cliched “end of the day.”
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:34 pm
For the most part i think Smilin’ Frank has done a pretty good job with his trades and pickups.
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:35 pm
Njbraves – what if we could trade him and land a large haul for him including a coupe of top prospects, and a near rdy ML CF/already ML cf? You have to give up something to get something. We are stacked in the rotation for this year and next so why not use JJ to make this club dominant for the next 5-10 years?
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:36 pm
Hell I STILL caint believe that the government wasted all that time and money and then butchered the Clemens trial
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:36 pm
Texas, untill he learns to hit that inside fastball then he is worthless. He is just going to get eaten up (as he currently is). He doesnt even hustle which annoys me.
njbraves
July 17th, 2011
7:37 pm
It’s always about the future for some of you. Why can’t they try and win now?? This year’s team could win the WS with a little help and a few breaks here and there. I’m so tired of hearing about the” long term”…go out and make the moves you have to to win the whole damn thing. I’m not saying to gut the farm system, but they have so much pitching depth right now there is no way all of these guys will be Braves forever.
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
7:37 pm
glad venters finally announced the baby its been killing me…dude was so excited when he found out…and when he found out it was a boy he was even more excited.
Listening to him talk to my 3 year old about it is pretty cute
cricket
July 17th, 2011
7:37 pm
Your sell high candidate folks
All the bloggers here suggesting Sell High for JJJ must be super smart traders. Sell High means other party is dumb enough to Buy High. Surprised that these super smart traders are revealing their brilliance here on the net where some of those dumbos might read it and get a hint that they are being taken…
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:38 pm
Nolie, it seems to me that the fix was in the Clemens trial. I mean how else does a prosecutor present evidence that has already been ruled inadmissable? The fix, or gross incompetence, either way I want a partial tax refund for my share of that debacle.
njbraves
July 17th, 2011
7:39 pm
Blankster….do you want to win the WS?? If you do, then trading JJ is a terrible idea. If your goal is to have the best farm system, then by all means, let’s trade JJ. At some point you have to go for it.
cricket
July 17th, 2011
7:39 pm
I dont think JJ’s second half performance will be that far above what tehran/minor could give us.
I only wish there was a way to place bet against this ‘thought’..
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:40 pm
I was wondering if the got to one of the prosecutors, too. If not he/they should be fired
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:42 pm
But the upgrade we will gain on schafer in centre will still upgrade the club. Also next year we will be in a very strong postion. Heck you could trade JJ for prospects and then instantly move 1 of these proospects to pick up bourn. Addition by subtraction.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:43 pm
obtaining a great bat is no guarantee of post season success, just helps the odds a bit. but we all know how many times short 3, 5 or 7 game series buck the odds….
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
7:44 pm
nolie – gotta agree with you…isn’t there video tape of him saying I didn’t do it under oath and now proof that he did it. Not sure how you lose that one but I’m no attorney.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:44 pm
another game like todays, and the trade JJ movement will start to roll
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:45 pm
We cant beat the phillies with jordan schafer batting lead off. End of story.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:45 pm
shoulda had Braveheart try the case. guaranteed win….
keylargo
July 17th, 2011
7:46 pm
In the last 30 minutes y’all have traded Lowe, JJ, and Minor. We now have a rotation of Hudson, Hanson, Beachy (about 10 MLB starts), Martinez (2 starts in AAA) and Teheran (20 years old).
Did we get a bat?
BBraves
July 17th, 2011
7:46 pm
Wow Gonzalez,McLouth, and Heyward have a worse batting average than Schafer. Also, you have to factor in how many walks and thowing error than Schafer causes. Amazing that Braves are leading the wildcard. Will be nice once Chipper gets back and hopfully everyone can stay healthy. Would be nice to see Wilkin Ramirez get a few more at bats he has played well compared the other with the few chances he has had to get in the game.
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:46 pm
Clemens lawyer, I read, was planning on attcking the government for the entire process of the senate hearings, Mitchell Report, the financial cost of it all, etc. I wonder if the Feds began to see absolutely no up-side to this deal at all, especially after the Bonds’ verdict, and just decided to put a bullet in the whole deal. It all seems fishy.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:46 pm
and where is Bravey lately? ain’t seen him in a coon’s age
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
7:47 pm
nolie – realistically how much does it change the odds? 1-2 games over a full season so .5-1 game in this less than 1/2 a season?
Is that about right you seem to know the statistical comparison stuff on this better than most.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:47 pm
I certainly hope we got one back KL, and a good one too
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:47 pm
Got some good fantasy baseball team names out it in my league though. Barry’s Bondsman, and Roger’s Clemency.
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
7:48 pm
btw ya’ll should get on twitter just to see the picture I took of proctor in the bullpen last night…
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
7:49 pm
Made me laugh there, keylargo.
BBraves
July 17th, 2011
7:50 pm
I wish some team was desperate for a centerfielder and we could dump McLouth as well as Lowe.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:51 pm
too many variables to really calculate tiger. I was just trying to introduce a little realism to so many who seem to think that adding a bat would make us a lock….both in getting there and especially in the series themselves. I’m certainly not against adding one if they find the right deal, but we could still lose the WS
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:52 pm
great names TFor
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:52 pm
BBraves – McLouth isnt going anywhere. He is unmovable, and besides he isnt doing that bad this year. .690 OPS is only just below the NL average. Plus by all accounts he is a great teammate, which does help.
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
7:54 pm
nolie – I’m right there with you. Having Prado healthy uggla/heyward hittin closer to career norms have a much bigger impact than anything we could dream to get in CF
Unless someone has a time machine to go bring druw back.
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:54 pm
Nolee – can you imagine schafer leading off vs lee, halladay and hamels? He wouldnt get on base at all. We cant afford to have our lead off man never getting on base in a big series vs the frillies.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
7:54 pm
yup, the “average” hitter level has sure sunk over the last few years. 750 hitters are now at least silver if not gold
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
7:56 pm
well time for me to put the little one to bed…be back in about 30 minutes
cricket
July 17th, 2011
7:56 pm
another game like todays, and the trade JJ movement will start to roll
gotta disagree. he’ll throw 6 inn for 2 runs and there will be people telling us how he got lucky again, he throws like a girl unlike real manly men like Kyle Farnsworth, we should trade him, sell high to dumbos who are in a business of buying high, this will get us a rich cache of prospects whom we can start trading the next time we are close to winning (like say when we have 4th/5th best record after half a season).
Blankster
July 17th, 2011
7:56 pm
It sure makes a difference now those balls off the end of the bat dont get muscled into the seats doesnt it! Baseball is more fun now you can have faith that players are more likely clean than not.
VaBravesFan
July 17th, 2011
7:59 pm
Lowe is the only starter that makes sense trading. Mike Minor could come close or match Lowe’s numbers it would be a downgrade still in my opinion but still makes sense. Free up some money for this season to maybe add a more expensive bat before the deadline, while also getting money off the books for 2012 giving us more options during the offseason on how we can use the money saved by trading Lowe.
Looking at the roster now, CF is our only hole. Were still winning with Jordan in CF but its not like he’s putting up MLB caliber numbers. Corner Outfield will be filled when Chipper returns. Shortstop wont be upgraded as AGon’s defense is valued big time on this team. Also there isnt many options at SS that would be considered a upgrade.
Our options, 1. Trade for a Everyday CF (ex. Bourn) 2. Add a Versitile bench type player (ex. Carroll) 3. Upgrade the Bullpen (ex. Adams) 4. Or downgrade the Defense by getting a big Corner OF bat (ex. Pence) roll dice without a true CF.
Problem with adding a Pence **type** player, while we could possibly get by the rest of the season without a Real CFer, going into 2012 with 3 Corner OFers who suppost to play everyday is a Problem. It just doesnt make sense unless were willing to move Prado to the bench or whatever, Chipper will return to play 3B. Uggla is at 2B.
Best Option– trade for a CFer that will be here for atleast 2012 season or possibly longer.
Most Likely to Happen– Wren will tinker around add a reliever and bench guy. Still a nice upgrade over Lugo/Proctor.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:00 pm
I mean IF there is another game like today the volume would increase cricket, not saying that there would be another game like it.
BBraves
July 17th, 2011
8:01 pm
Mclouth has a good OBP because he hits eighth and get walked or pitched around because the pitcher hits behind him. The Braves would be so much better if McLouth could be moved to the bench and A Gonzalez could bat eighth.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:03 pm
Mclouth has a good OBP because he hits eighth and get walked or pitched around because the pitcher hits behind him.
bulloney, that is pure speculation. the sample sizes are too small to be meaningful as predictors.
cricket
July 17th, 2011
8:03 pm
It sure makes a difference now those balls off the end of the bat dont get muscled into the seats doesnt it! Baseball is more fun now you can have faith that players are more likely clean than not.
Co-sign. Great to see normal humans playing the game and not some freaky super muscle men. I mean look at Hank Aaron, looks so normal, though very athletic and still hit million homers, stole million bases and had billion hits.
VaBravesFan
July 17th, 2011
8:04 pm
I find it hard for Wren to make a bigger impact move because of Payroll restrictions. So either we give up more talent in a trade or take on more salary of the player were trading for. We all dont wanna deal our prospects, so we have to take on money. But to do that will have to trade Lowe first… So alot has to happen to get a more expensive bat. I say there’s only a 15% chance Lowe gets dealt.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:04 pm
I miss my homers…
George
July 17th, 2011
8:06 pm
Good evening all
GOOD WIN. OH FREDDY and BRIAN. Good FREDI used KIMBREL with game tied, he should have done it a week ago Friday. Good he listened to me and learned.
keylargo
July 17th, 2011
8:07 pm
another game like todays, and the trade JJ movement will start to roll
JJ would have been the winning pitcher today if not for Sherrill giving up the HR.
VaBravesFan
July 17th, 2011
8:09 pm
From what I been reading is that there is plenty of relief pitchers on the trade market, meaning teams wont be able to get as much in return. And bench players dont cost much either. Wren will atleast make a improvement over Lugo/Proctor. It could be another Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth **type** trade most likely to happen.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:10 pm
shirley you don’t expect logic to sway the board do you KL?
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:10 pm
there also seems to be a lot of RHed hitting OFers available, according to ESPN writers
keylargo
July 17th, 2011
8:14 pm
Noleeee – the only thing I expect from the blog is the unexpected.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:15 pm
good way to look at it
George
July 17th, 2011
8:15 pm
Don’t trade LOWE till end of season, if then.
noleeee
July 17th, 2011
8:15 pm
gonna go watch a flick. seeya all later
George
July 17th, 2011
8:20 pm
Outta here. Have a good one or two tonight y’ll. Great FREDI is listening to me if he continues to do so he will get smart and be a good MGR.
BravesFAN
July 17th, 2011
8:20 pm
You know Heyward did not think his year would be so bad that he would be getting benched vs a lefty for Wilkin Ramirez….Even since he has returned from the DL he still has not been great. What is his BA since his DL return .260?? What is wrong with this kid?? he has not put together a good 2-3 weeks ALL YEAR. We need him to step up and not be a .230 bum if were going to make some noise come playoff time!!!
VaBravesFan
July 17th, 2011
8:22 pm
Names mentioned as Availible RH Outfield Bats. Conner Jackson, Josh Willingham, Reed Johnson, Lasting Millege, Jeff Francour.
Then you have these OF names being mentioned at some point Hunter Pence (who’s staying put I think), Carlos Quinten, Carlos Beltran, Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Coco Crisp, Julio Borbon, Melky Cabrera, Carlos Lee (who will take that contract HA!) Johnny Damon, Colby Rasmus (very doubtful),
Versitile Guys mentioned, Jamey Carroll, Wilson Betemit, Jeff Keppinger, Chris Ianetta.
VaBravesFan
July 17th, 2011
8:27 pm
If Dan Uggla and Jason Heyward have normal expected 2nd halfs they should combine to hit 25 homers and 90 rbis.
yogi
July 17th, 2011
8:30 pm
Send Conrad down and bring up Rueben Gotay. he was a very good pinch hitter when he was with the Braves a couple of years ago.
alexcox
July 17th, 2011
8:35 pm
no seria bueno tread lowe es un lansador d playoff traed kk protocor sherlll gearin,martines libranic y trael al bulpen gente sana y no operados. traer julio .minor delgado viscaino y algun aaa q este biem o un calmante.en la fecha limite.creo q pueden conseguir un bateador desente por q si hasen esos ajustes no c pasaran del limite en su nomina
John Leonard
July 17th, 2011
8:35 pm
Nolee: has the game changed that much?As a pitcher I would go after McClouth with everythig so that the pitcher would lead off the next inning.
VaBravesFan
July 17th, 2011
8:36 pm
i cant read spanish at all… I only know certain words. sorry.
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
8:39 pm
jl – don’t think nolie was saying that think he was calling BS on the person who said it
alexcox
July 17th, 2011
8:41 pm
wren tiene el esenario d frente y no tiene excusa por q hatenido alos fan disiendole lo q sebe en cada juego c a hablado d parish si no lo qieres botar busca ayuda extra como la tiene los cardenales tien dos couch
Big Jake
July 17th, 2011
8:43 pm
has the game changed that much?As a pitcher I would go after McClouth with everythig so that the pitcher would lead off the next inning. John L
I don’t think it has changed that much, but it seems to be a blog urban myth. A highly dubious and overrated one I think.
Most are still going to try to get the out so that the pitcher leads off, and McLouth has always had good BA/OBP splits even at his worst during last season.
Hitting 8th has little or nothing to do with that.
abeeeewright
July 17th, 2011
8:45 pm
I know that Conrad made a blunder on the bases. But, didn’t he get on base in a critical pinch hit role today?
Efrim
July 17th, 2011
8:45 pm
I’d rather have Lowe in the rotation than Minor or Teheran for the remainder of 2011. But if the team were to pick up all of that 15 million next year, or at least most of it, that could go a long way to making this team better for 2012.
Dan Kolb's Overused Diaper
July 17th, 2011
8:46 pm
Man I stunk in Atlanta.
Big Jake
July 17th, 2011
8:47 pm
I had to miss the game for work, but it looks like it had an exciting and tense ending. I’m glad they won.
I have not gone back to read through it, bit I bet there was a lot of crazy talk during most of it.
It’s a shame the blog gets that way so much.
I have read it since then and it’s been interesting and pretty sane.
T for Texas
July 17th, 2011
8:49 pm
What about the newly stretched out Cristhian Martinez, Efrim?
Big Jake
July 17th, 2011
8:49 pm
I would rather have Lowe this season also, but if it can get done it might be a good long term idea.
David O'Brien
July 17th, 2011
8:50 pm
what’s DOB’s twitter address
@ajcbraves
Big Jake
July 17th, 2011
8:51 pm
I would hate to have to rely much on Martinez as a starter down the stretch of a pennant hunt. JMO.
bravesgrl4lifeeeeeeeee
July 17th, 2011
8:53 pm
Man, that was a fun game to be at today! I never lost the faith that our boys would win this one. My hubby (remember, he is not a baseball guy) wasn’t even complaining, so I knew the day was charmed. I would have wasted my $$$ if I had been as negative as my blogging friends today
Still love you guys, but I hope this game teaches you a lesson: don’t give up! It sure taught me that, because as recent as last night, I turned the channel before the end. Of course, last night, I had a reason other than the losing effort, but still, I had given up. Never again! This game was just too good today.
Big Jake
July 17th, 2011
8:56 pm
It is funny how dead this place can get after a Braves win, even an exciting one.
Where do they all go?
Big Jake
July 17th, 2011
8:58 pm
I have to go check the dogs, feed and groom them. I might have a good sale tomorrow.
Good night and good luck
David O'Brien
July 17th, 2011
9:07 pm
I had to miss the game for work, but it looks like it had an exciting and tense ending. I’m glad they won.
I have not gone back to read through it, bit I bet there was a lot of crazy talk during most of it.
It’s a shame the blog gets that way so much.
I have read it since then and it’s been interesting and pretty sane. — Big Jake
Of course it has been. Because we have a segment of bloggers who don’t get nearly as excited and passionate blogging about the team that’s on pace for 95 wins and has a five-game wild-card lead when the team wins, as they do when they’re moaning and groaning during every loss or during the early, middle or late innings of any game in which the team trails and those folks prematurely “ballgame” it, again and again.
Maybe we can get an Emory behavioral-science professor to study that segment of our blog participants. Might be interesting to figure out what makes them tick.
tiger297
July 17th, 2011
9:15 pm
DOB – you catch the photo of proctor in the bullpen I posted on twitter last night?
jeffrey d
July 17th, 2011
9:15 pm
My friend just started her residency at Emory. Maybe she can find a behavioral-science professor. Too bad she couldn’t do it herself. She’s in pediatrics.
…on second thought, maybe she can help.
TeheranTime
July 17th, 2011
9:24 pm
WHAT IF…Atlanta dealt Derek Lowe and Alex Gonzalez to Detroit for Johnny Perralta and prospects? Salary wise, Atlanta would clear $15 million with Derek Lowe and $2.5 million with Alex Gonzalez. Johnny Perralta’s salary is $5.5 million this season and next season. That leaves $12.5 million for a “big name hitter” in addition to the upgrade at shortstop? You could turn around and deal prospects gained in the deal with Detroit to Houston with some prospects from within the organization for Hunter Pence. Pence makes $6.5 million in salary. You still have money free should you decide to get a bat for the bench. I think this makes sense because as much as it pains me to say it, Chipper Jones may not even hold out the rest of this season, much less next season. You move Martin Prado to third, Pence to left, Schafer stays in center and you are ready to move forward. The spot in the rotation vacated by Lowe would be filled by Brandon Beachy immediately. You could call up Mike Minor as your fifth starter until Julio Teheran is ready. If you find out that Beachy isn’t ready for the step up, you still have some money available in the trading of Lowe to address a free agent pitcher next year.
bravesgrl4lifeeeeeeeee
July 17th, 2011
9:25 pm
DOB, I am totally psyched about this team and the chances for a 95 win season! That game today convinced me to never again give up on my Braves!! I love this team – each and every guy on it!
Efrim
July 17th, 2011
9:33 pm
Can’t imagine Peralta being traded. If Lowe goes to Detroit, I don’t think too much will be coming back.
Steve from OH
July 17th, 2011
9:37 pm
I’m pretty excited about this team. Hell, I think we’ve got a fair shot to beat the Phillies in the NLCS too.
Braves Fan5
July 17th, 2011
9:42 pm
If these talks with detroit are serious i wonder if ryan raburns name has come up. He’s a guy with good pop that can play outfield and infield.
Powder Blue
July 17th, 2011
9:43 pm
Mets are apparently willing to eat some of Beltran’s salary if a team wants to talk trade.
Steve from OH
July 17th, 2011
9:45 pm
Can Beltran still play CF? At all?
Efrim
July 17th, 2011
9:46 pm
I think we’ve got a fair shot to beat the Phillies in the NLCS too.
I hate making comments like this, but this year would be a disappointment if we didn’t at least get to the NLCS. Playoffs are a big crapshoot, but the Braves have to win a playoff series this season. I think we’re that much better than any other team not named the Phillies in the NL.
Steve from OH
July 17th, 2011
9:47 pm
I think we’re that much better than any other team not named the Phillies in the NL.
I do too. We (along with the Phillies) are the class of the NL. And we’re only going to get better in the coming years, IMO.
Powder Blue
July 17th, 2011
9:49 pm
“Can Beltran still play CF? At all?”
Good question. I don’t know if he can still play CF.