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2,335 comments Add your comment
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
But JJ doesn’t strike out 10 a game he can’t possibly be a star pitcher..
MFin04, Well said
RC
June 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
Tex couldn’t hit a grapefruit lobbed at him when we had him….good riddance.
If you make stupid statements, you force me to make you look dumb.
Tex’s stats in ATL: 157 games, 36 2b, 37 HR, 134 RBI, 101 runs, .295 avg, .395 OBP, .548 slug.
Looks like he got a lot of grapefruits.
phil
June 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
140 million? Petty cash….i spit on that insult!
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
3:30 pm
I wish we could hit the blockbuster trade that nobody sees coming
I think that’s how Alex got a standing O, and the team got a gunny-sack full of outs, LOL. Might be careful as to what you wish for.
MikeInFl
June 30th, 2011
3:31 pm
Yeah, but those were baseballs he was hitting, RC. Not grapefruits.
daniel buck
June 30th, 2011
3:31 pm
tell em John Smoltz and Ryan Klesko sent ya……….
phil
June 30th, 2011
3:31 pm
Thanks, RC….i was kidding but i guess i look dumb now anyway. The guy was obviously no Dan Uggla though!
Scrub21
June 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
Hey Phil,
I live in New Smyrna Beach, nice weather today, huh?
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
The only staff that JJ would be a number 3 on is Philadelphia
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
140 million? Petty cash….i spit on that insult!
Oh, me too, phil. But Teixeira was a just a baseball player.
JT Grace
June 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
But to say Jair is lucky when he has consistently gotten guys out is ridiculous
Living in a fantasy land where you refuse to look at the stats that show JJ has been lucky is ridiculous.
….let guys steal on purpose, gave up hits on purpose
If you truly think Greg Maddux gave up hits on purpose then you truly are living in some sort of fantasy land. Greg Maddux is one of the greatest pitchers of the modern era. Jair Jurrjens, in no sort of alternative reality, is anywhere close to being as talented as the Mad Dog.
N8
June 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
“For those discounting Jurrjens getting lucky, look at the years when the batted balls are finding holes (the years when his BABIP’s are highest). Those are clearly his worst ERA seasons.”
Doesn’t one have to remotely take into consideration the defense behind a pitcher to take BABIP seriously?
I’m not talking errors or poor fielding. I’m talking range and actual ability of the defense behind you to turn would be base hits into outs.
Our defense hasn’t always been the best in the league since JJJ has been here. Clearly, the defense has played better overall this year. Which has to help those numbers.
RC
June 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
Sorry phil, I thought it was a serious comment. Hard to tell with this group sometimes.
RC
June 30th, 2011
3:34 pm
Jair Jurrjens, in no sort of alternative reality, is anywhere close to being as talented as the Mad Dog
Don’t tell Boras that at the next arb hearing
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
3:34 pm
JT Grace, not hits but Maddux and Glavine would both rather walk guys than be forced to throw something down the middle. Maddux and Glavine would keep throwing 2 inches outside until they convinced the umpire that it was a strike
Gil In Mechanicsville
June 30th, 2011
3:35 pm
The thing is, I can’t see the Braves trading, possibly their best pitcher, to help another team make the playoffs. The teams who will be trading spare parts for prospects are teams like the Royals, the Marlins, Pittsburg, Washington, the Mariners and the Dodgers. Even those teams have not yet thrown in the towel for the season.
The Orioles will be showcasing players too. Just not anyone named Adam Jones….
I’ll bet the Cubs will be having a fire sale soon too.
N8
June 30th, 2011
3:35 pm
JT Grace, don’t sidestep the conversation by trying to say some of us said JJJ is as good as Maddux.
You made the statement that good pitchers don’t have to get out of jams because they don’t get themselves into jams.
So Maddux never lost a playoff game huh? He was undefeated as a Brave, huh?
You made the statement. Man up. Own it. And defend it.
TennesseePaul
June 30th, 2011
3:36 pm
Haven’t paid much attention to how the Braves operate or how Boras operates, have you?
You mean, like how Wren worked with Boras to sign Lowe? No, I totally missed it.
If you think these facts don’t hinder Wren’s ability to easily lock up JJJ longterm, you’re crazy. No offense.
Never said anything about Wren locking up JJ early for long term. Just that JJ will carry on until he is a FA. At that point he will sign a contract. It will be either with the Braves or not the Braves. And I don’t think the fact that JJ has Boras as his agent is going to “force” Wren to trade him. The only way I’d see that happening is if the team is out of contention. The Braves road Drew (Boras client) into FA. They would have ridden Tex as well, had they not fallen out of it in early April. And then there is Maddux, whom the team signed and kept.
So yeah, I don’t think JJ’s agent is going to factor into Wren’s maneuvers. JJ is trade if the team falls out of contention and a great deal is at hand. JJ is not traded because his agent is Boras. That’s just not the Braves MO. There is only one agent/agency the Braves will not deal with and it isn’t Boras.
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
3:36 pm
then maddux would start throwing 2.5 inches outside until he could convince them that it was a strike also…With control like that is the reason he is in the hall of fame
PDOG
June 30th, 2011
3:37 pm
Braves would be crazy to trade any of there major league pitching at this point. Here are 3 things the Braves need to do, don’t forget we are talking about a team with the third best recorord in Baseball.
1) Chipper needs to get his knee fixed during the allstar break. They are going to need him in Sept.
2) Try and trade for JJ Hardy, offer AGON and either Redmond or any one of the AA starters not named Delagado or Vizcanio.
3) Try and obtain either Liilibridge or Infante.
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
3:39 pm
Jair Jurrjens, in no sort of alternative reality, is anywhere close to being as talented as the Mad Dog.
Of course, he isn’t. And he’s highly unlikely to sustain a Bob-Gibson-with-a-high-mound ERA, sure (although you can say that about any lving pitcher, as far as that goes). But neither of those things mitigates against the possibility that he can continue to outpitch his peripherals.
You can’t let the hyperbole that’s occasionally rampant here obscure the actual conversation.
N8
June 30th, 2011
3:40 pm
“The only staff that JJ would be a number 3 on is Philadelphia.”
Why stop there? His ERA is the best in the league. You’ve fallen for the “Phillies are the greatest rotation ever” propaganda.
If he’s not good enough to crack the Phillies top 2 spots, then why would he in SF, Seattle, Boston, Milwaukee or St. Louis once Wainwright is healthy?
MikeInFl
June 30th, 2011
3:41 pm
Statistically, Maddux and JJ look very similar to me. Hit rate, K rate, HR rate are all very similar. Now at about 27, Maddux decided to never walk a batter again and his walk rate dropped into the 1’s, but JJ’s walk rate is very good this year, so he’s headed in the right direction.
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
3:42 pm
MFin04, Maddux didn’t put as many guys on base as Jurrjens.
I don’t think Maddux ever gave up hits on purpose. That’s pretty ridiculous. He did pitch around guys and he wasn’t really too concerned about letting a baserunner steal, letting him have the one extra base so he could focus on the hitter.
It’s almost inevitable that Jurrjens will give up hits at a higher rate than he has up to this point of the season. It will be difficult for him to sustain the hit rate he has now, given his skills. More batted balls will start to find holes. He’s still be a very good pitcher but I don’t think he’ll be one of the top 5 pitchers in the majors from this point on.
DAP
June 30th, 2011
3:42 pm
shaun I was just responding to AGon being trading and why it’s not very likely
oh ok. when it comes to trading for a SS, you could do several things with agon. there isnt much $$$ left on his contract, so you could release him. you might be able to find a team that will want him to sure up their SS position, and trade him for next to nothing. you could bench him, and let him pinch “hit” and back up SS. or, you could trade him to the team you are getting the new SS from, to fill the hole until next season.
for instance, maybe the orioles decide they will trade hardy. gonzalez, pastornicky, and vizcaino for jj hardy. O’s fill the gap for this season, get a SS prospect close to MLB ready, and a good pitching prospect.
unbelievable
June 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
“Tex couldn’t hit a grapefruit lobbed at him when we had him….good riddance” -Phil
Dont you love it when people just say things without paying attention? Tex as a Brave – 589AB’s 37HR 134RBI
2007 – .317/.404/.615
2008 – .283/.390/.512
He’s still a douche, but he can hit.
Snotboogie
June 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
scoots and mfin04 nice to see some coherent people on the blog
Man, that was one serious insult to scoots. Go easy on the commenters Mike.
raleighbravefan
June 30th, 2011
3:46 pm
Gil – Lowe, maybe. Hudson gave a hometown discount, and is a 10/5 guy. They couldn’t trade him, even if they wanted to, which they don’t. He ain’t going anywhere!!!!!
unbelievable
June 30th, 2011
3:46 pm
DAP – Isnt Hardy a FA at the end of the year? I dont see the braves offering Pastornicky and Vizcaino for a 1/2 yr of JJ Hardy.
FW
June 30th, 2011
3:50 pm
Kemp & Ethier for JJ & Heyward………………………. what to do what to do, hmmmmm I dont know…………………………….. let me think about it, that would give us an outfield of Prado, Kemp, & Either? Nah, it wouldnt be fair to the other teams, we would be unbeatable!
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
3:51 pm
SB, I don’t think Mike actually meant that in a bad way.
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
3:52 pm
Who does belong in the same conversation with Maddux?? Give me a break
N8
June 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
“You mean, like how Wren worked with Boras to sign Lowe? No, I totally missed it.” T-Paul
ROFLMAO! (I don’t type that very often – but this was as good of reason as I might ever see).
Are you REALLY comparing Derek Lowe’s free agency to Jair’s pending free agency if he keeps this up for a few years? Wow.
Two teams were in on Derek Lowe and Wren had to add a 4th year to the deal to beat out the Mets. Even the dumbass Mets management (who give money away like it’s planted in Central Park), thought that was laughable and balked at a 4th year.
As for the other talk of not trading him early? You’re crazy if you think Jurrjens will still be wearing a Braves uniform (barring major injuries to Beachy, Minor, Hanson and Teheran in the next 24 months), when his free agency hits.
Why wasn’t Renteria retained? He was a bargain. A clubhouse leader and still had some play left in the tank.
He was traded because:
1) There was a younger, cheaper player (Yunel) ready to replace him.
2) There was a trade on the table that was too good to refuse (ironic who that player was, huh?)
The Braves have a good one in Beachy. A spot in the rotation is his.
They have a #7 overall pick that was Wren’s first pick. He’ll make room for him (if he himself is not traded), going into 2012.
If Teheran is for some reason left in AAA for the remainder of this year, he WILL be in the rotation going into 2012. Or like Hanson before him, at some point in the year.
Medlen might be in the rotation. Perhaps the bullpen.
Then you have the “buy low, sell high” factor. Jurrjens’ stock will NEVER be higher.
At some point SOMEBODY has to be traded. It’s a waste to keep both Minor and Teheran down in AAA come 2012. Hudson isn’t going anywhere and who the hell is going to want Lowe?
I’ll give you this much. If Lowe is traded this winter, I can see Jurrjens playing 2012 in Atlanta. If Lowe is retained, I really see Jair being moved. Wouldn’t even surprise me to see both of them moved.
But there is no chance in hell that Jair is wearing a Braves uniform (in contention or not), the summer of his free agent year.
MFin04
June 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
Maddux would give up hits on purpose. He talked about it numerous times. You pitch a guy one way and let him think that is how you are always going to pitch. Then the next time you change it up on him and screw him up. The guy was a brilliant pitcher. Really learned how to out-think hitters.
All these stats that say hits and walks are bad are missing the point. The goal of pitching isn’t to limit hits or walks, but to limit runs. Jair is one of the best in the league at limiting runs. When you pitch to contact guys are going to get hits. But when you pitch to contact and make guys consistently hit weak balls to your players you aren’t going to give up many runs. What makes Jair so good is that he doesn’t get rattled when he does have guys on base.
The Lemmer
June 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
raleigh you are correct, Huddy is signed thru next year, then probably will sign on for another year or 2 if he’s still pitching well & retire as a Bravo, as for Lowe he is a goner for sure when his deal expires after next year if we cant give him away before then
Mixxo
June 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
Phillies only have two hits in this one?????
What the …….
MFin04
June 30th, 2011
3:58 pm
N8 – So if you have a great pitcher why do you let him walk? I mean I don’t understand the logic of not giving the guy the contract he deserves? If you continue to let guys go and not give them long term deals you end up with guys like McLouth, Kawakami, and D-Lowe who you are paying too much to produce too little. Mine as well pay Jurrjens and Hanson a lot of money to pitch well, then pay other guys half as much to produce way less.
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
3:59 pm
Maddux got in fewer jams than Jurrjens has. Check. Maddux gave up fewer baserunners.
The best pitchers at getting out of jams are also the best pitchers. These aren’t separate skills.
Because Jurrjens gives up more baserunners and pitches in more jams, he will inevitably give up more runs than Maddux in a typical Maddux season. No way he sustains a Left On Base Percentage of 83.7. For his career he’s at 74.8 percent. In his previous best season at leaving runners on base, he was at 79.4 percent.
He’s like Maddux in that he relies more on contact outs than a typical pitcher and he is good at getting them. But his ability to do this probably isn’t .276-BABIP good.
Anyone looking at Jurrjens objectively can’t avoid the distinct possibility that Jurrjens is in for some regression. Still a solid but isn’t likely to be one of the top 3-5 pitchers in the majors from here on out.
raleighbravefan
June 30th, 2011
4:00 pm
DAP – We would all like for AGon to hit more, but he is one of the best defensively in the league (probably the best) He isn’t expensive, and the Braves like him. Not only will he not be traded, but they may sign him to an extension.
Arkansas Transplant
June 30th, 2011
4:00 pm
Murph, are you still on here?
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
4:02 pm
Nobody is talking about JJ being as good as mad dog…Nobody…The conversation is how good is JJ and what is he worth. I think he is a good pitcher. He is pitchign
Furman Bitcher
June 30th, 2011
4:02 pm
The only thing troubling for Philly should be that they only have 35 more home games where they have dominated with 45 more on the road where they have played close to .500 ball. The Braves have 42 left at home where they have played well.
raleighbravefan
June 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
MFin04 – My point exactly. If he continues to be an ace, I say pay him and keep him. By the way, we all hate Boras for doing his job so well (getting the best deal possible for his clients), but the Braves have been able to work with him as well as any team.
Furman Bitcher
June 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
Its going to get a lot tighter folks
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
4:04 pm
To finish…I think he will continue to pitch at an all star level
MFin04
June 30th, 2011
4:06 pm
“top 3-5 pitchers in the majors from here on out”
Top 3 to 5 pitchers in what? He will most certainly be top 5 in ERA and Wins. An ERA under 3 and 20 wins is probably very realistic which should put him in the top 5, maybe top 10, in both categories.
And there is a big difference between being a top 5 pitcher (which I think he is) and a 3rd starter for every team in the NL that you think he is.
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
4:06 pm
But there is no chance in hell that Jair is wearing a Braves uniform (in contention or not), the summer of his free agent year.
If so, chances are equally good (or poor, I guess, depending on how you look at it) that Medlen/Minor/Beachy/Teheran/whoever does not pitch as well, as his replacement.
TennesseePaul
June 30th, 2011
4:09 pm
Nathan,
Couple things I noticed in that book you just wrote.
1) It reinforces my position that if the Braves want a player who is represented by Boras, they will do what it takes to get him… even you agreed saying: “Wren had to add a 4th year to the deal“, So Boras, as his agent, wasn’t a deterrent to the Braves front office. Boras as his agent wasn’t a reason not to look into him.
2) In your list of reasons Renteria was traded there is a gaping hole, a void, an absence of any reference to an agent being the reason.
So you agree then? Jurrjens will not be traded because of his agent. His agent will not be the reason Jurrjens is traded, if he is traded. That is the crux of my thesis. It is to refute the basis for many “trade Jurrjens” arguments I see posted on here. This basis was around last year. It is hog wash. Boras is not going to be the reason Jurrjens is traded. Boras would not be the reason the Braves fail or pass on resigning Jurrjens. There is only one agent/agency with which the Braves refuse to work. That agent/agency is not Boras.
You can freely make all the arguments you want as to why the team should move Jurrjens, or if they will move Jurrjens, but citing Boras as a reason is asinine. Maybe when you get up off the floor and calm down, you’ll realize that as well.
MFin04
June 30th, 2011
4:10 pm
I’d rather have the proven Jair Jurrjens and his contract over Medlen/Minor/Beachy/Teheran and even Hanson. If the guy is an ace or close to it, he is worth the money as long as you think he can stay healthy. There is nothing wrong with paying a few starting pitchers on your team top dollar.
Its either that or having to overpay in the future for guys like Kawakami and Derek Lowe. That’s 22 million a year for multiple years for 5th and 6th level starters.
DAP
June 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
unbelieveable Isnt Hardy a FA at the end of the year? I dont see the braves offering Pastornicky and Vizcaino for a 1/2 yr of JJ Hardy.
yes he is, and the braves need to make signing him a priority this offseason. as far as what to give up to trade for him…i dont know. im not that good at stuff like that. hardy is having a fantastic year, though. it will take some pretty good pieces to get him.
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
All these stats that say hits and walks are bad are missing the point. The goal of pitching isn’t to limit hits or walks, but to limit runs. Jair is one of the best in the league at limiting runs. When you pitch to contact guys are going to get hits. But when you pitch to contact and make guys consistently hit weak balls to your players you aren’t going to give up many runs. What makes Jair so good is that he doesn’t get rattled when he does have guys on base.
MFin04, yes. Hits and walks are great. I wish the Braves pitchers would give up more hits and walks.
Limiting hits and walks is about the only way to limit runs. When you give up hits and walks more often than the other pitchers who are with you amongst the ERA leaders, that’s a good bet that your ERA is going to rise.
Also, a lot of times a hit and a contact out isn’t really much different as far as what the pitcher did and what the pitcher can control. So a pitcher who got contact outs at an unusually high rate for him and for a typical pitcher is probably not going to sustain that rate of getting contact outs.
I agree with you that Jurrjens pitches to contact and gets weak contact and that is largely what makes him an effective pitcher. But he’s not likely to be an elite pitcher over the long haul because hitters who miss bats at the rate of a Jurrjens are going to give up hits more often than he has so far this season.
I think there are a lot of pitchers who don’t get rattled when they have guys on base or when they don’t. But not getting rattled only goes so far in helping a pitcher miss bats and throw strikes.
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
4:12 pm
Why would there not be any chance in hell that Jair is wearing a Braves uniform in 2 years? I think there is a good as chance as any that he will be in a Braves uniform in 2 years. Braves will deal with Boras and make a good offer. If the yankees or red sox want him we would have little chance of keeping him but no reason 2 think that we couldn’t give him a a good chance as any at staying in Atlanta
bravesgrl4life
June 30th, 2011
4:12 pm
Phils lost – 3.5 back now
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
4:13 pm
MFin04, just to clarify, from here on out Jurrjens probably will not be one of the top five pitchers in the majors. I seriously doubt from this point on that he’ll have one of the top five ERA’s in baseball. I don’t know about wins because a lot of that depends on things outside of his control, like the Braves’ offense.
Fish Bisch
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
The series with the Phils is a must win. We need to be in 1st and not 6.5 back at the break.
DAP
June 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
ralieghbravesfanNot only will he not be traded, but they may sign him to an extension.
they better not. and i dont care if they trade him. as if they can get a better SS, releasing or benching him will be fine with me.
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
4:16 pm
Fish, got a few games to play before the Phillies’ series. Might be a good idea to win a couple of those, first.
jeffrey d
June 30th, 2011
4:17 pm
Like I said, little terd get a life, btw, how much you making again?? I’m in the pros, what do you do for your miserable little life???
Geeze…at first KC Frenchy was a little funny, but now he’s just turned ugly and stupid.
VaBravesFan
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
JJ Hardy is pretty injury prone…
Whoop
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
“Why wasn’t Renteria retained? He was a bargain. A clubhouse leader and still had some play left in the tank.
He was traded because:
1) There was a younger, cheaper player (Yunel) ready to replace him.
2) There was a trade on the table that was too good to refuse (ironic who that player was, huh?)”
Nah, the better comparison would’ve been had the Braves traded Brian McCann in favor of the younger and cheaper Jarrod Saltalamacchia.
And you’re crazy if you think the Braves are going to trade JJ if he does go on to have an amazing year. I don’t give a frick who you have in the minors, you don’t do stuff like that.
Again, there’s no guarantee that Teheran/Delgado/Minor/Beachy/Medlen are going to be the superstars people are claiming they’re going to be.
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
4:18 pm
Shaun, you love distorting the conversation and spouting off like a know it all. I had to hear for 2 months how Heyward should be batting higher in the order and so far he has not produced. Who should be batting 2nd now…Can you argue that just as crazily for the next 3 months
RC
June 30th, 2011
4:19 pm
The goal of pitching isn’t to limit hits or walks, but to limit runs.
That’s like saying the goal of keeping people off base isn’t to limit throwing balls instead of strikes, it’s to limit walks. One leads to the other.
MFin04
June 30th, 2011
4:19 pm
“Limiting hits and walks is about the only way to limit runs.” Not necessarily true. Limiting consecutive hits as well as extra base hits will limit the amount of runs you give up. Jair is among the league leaders in least amount of homers given up. Not to mention opponents slugging % against him is also in the top 10 in the league. The guys who limit extra base hits are among the best in the league.
Top 10 in opponents slugging:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/league/nl/sort/opponentSlugAvg/type/opponent-batting/order/false
TennesseePaul
June 30th, 2011
4:19 pm
Limiting hits and walks is about the only way to limit runs.
I wish the Braves pitchers would give up more hits and walks.
What?
I think a better, more closed door case for “pitching-over-their-head” could be made with Charlie Morton…
Jurrjens, eh. It could go either way. Sometimes guy have great years. Sometimes they just have great starts.
PDOG
June 30th, 2011
4:20 pm
O’s will trade Hardy if they can’t resign him by the trading deadline, I believe they will be one of the few players in the Reyes sweep stakes and with that the Braves should target to acquire him. I don’t believe you give up any of your top three pitching prospects but could instead give them a couple of the other pitchers. Don’t forget you may only have him for the rest of this year.
DAP
June 30th, 2011
4:21 pm
Phils lost – 3.5 back now
make that 4 back.
Mixxo
June 30th, 2011
4:22 pm
Think the Phillies are feeling our hot breath on their necks?
TennesseePaul
June 30th, 2011
4:23 pm
Limiting consecutive hits as well as extra base hits will limit the amount of runs you give up
WHIP gives you an idea of this. It’s hard to have a WHIP of 2.000 and not give up consecutive hits or walks. Keep that number closer to one and you’ll be doing well at limiting consecutiveness.
Playoffs!!!
June 30th, 2011
4:24 pm
In two years, Brandon Beachy will be the ace of this pitching staff.
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
DAP, ….or you could leave Alex Gonzalez as your starting shortstop because no team is likely to give you one that is that much better in a trade. Is the difference between Hardy and Gonzalez worth giving up Pastornicky and Vizcaino. I don’t think so at all.
bravesgrl4life
June 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
Yeah, DAP,/strong>, it’s 4 back. My brain is dead.
A friend of mine posted on Facebook earlier: “Come on you fat b**** and sing!”
I am in full agreement!
bravesgrl4life
June 30th, 2011
4:26 pm
Okay, my brain is reallydead – my second McFanned post of the day
tiger297
June 30th, 2011
4:27 pm
N8 – I’m confused on the JD Drew/Phillies thing. My understanding was prior to the draft Drew/Boras said I won’t sign for less than $10M. Phillies drafted him wouldn’t pay him that so he wouldn’t sign. Not sure how that makes Drew/Boras wrong (maybe greedy but they just did what they said they would do).
Arkansas Transplant
June 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
Again, there’s no guarantee that Teheran/Delgado/Minor/Beachy/Medlen are going to be the superstars people are claiming they’re going to be. – Whoop
They may not be guaranteed superstars but I’d bet we’ll end up with at least a couple of them being above average. And I’m sure there’s a lot of teams that wouldn’t mind having these guys.
Big Nick
June 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
Does anyone know if Proctor is going to be a FA after the season. He has 5.043 days of major league service time and he wasn’t called up until after the year started obviously so not sure if has enough days in if he stays on the major league roster the rest of the year.
MFin04
June 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
TennesseePaul – Jair has a pretty good WHIP. But even that doesn’t account for what types of hits. I mean the way Jurrjens pitches he could give up 2 or 3 hits in an inning and still not give up a run. If all you give up are weak singles, then teams are going to have a tough time scoring runs off of you. Just another reason that hits (and walks) aren’t that big of a deal as long as they are singles.
DAP
June 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
shaun Is the difference between Hardy and Gonzalez worth giving up Pastornicky and Vizcaino. I don’t think so at all.
im not good at evaluating prospects and what they are worth so i dont know. that trade was a hypothetical anyways. if the braves were to attempt to trade for hardy, im sure they would trade appropriate value for him.
by the way, hardy is OPSing almost 300 points higher than gonazlez this season. thats alot. and i know gonzalez’s defense is good but it doesnt make up for a .637 OPS, im sorry y’all. it just doesnt.
SS is CERTAINLY a position the braves should be trying to improve on. if we are looking for ways to improve, it should be #1 or #2 on the list.
phil
June 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
Scrub21
June 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
Hey Phil,
I live in New Smyrna Beach, nice weather today, huh?
I’m there now! Nasty!
Bat Masterson
June 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
Considering I’ve never heard of it, I find it hard to believe it’s the most imfamous ever.
Pretty sure some guy named Ruth being traded to the Yankees still owns that crown. _ RC
Yeah that Ruth deal was a killer, still I’m surprised you have not heard of the Len Barker trade. Hell it was a little less than thirty years ago and I know it has been discussed here with in the past week. Some people speculated the Indians knew Barker was damaged goods when they sent him to the Braves, others aren’t speculating, we know damn good and well they did. Its not to late to get some revenge, anybody up for a trip to Cleveland to kick some ass?
Whoop
June 30th, 2011
4:32 pm
They may not be guaranteed superstars but I’d bet we’ll end up with at least a couple of them being above average. And I’m sure there’s a lot of teams that wouldn’t mind having these guys.
And I’d bet more of them end up being busts
K.C. Frenchy
June 30th, 2011
4:32 pm
Yeah but youre kind of UGLY you cant wash off! Little terd, I’ll have 50+ rbi at the break, keep hatin while Im rakin, Im getting PAID!!!
BravesAC
June 30th, 2011
4:34 pm
DOB -
I know it’s a long flight and all, but I was wondering where Seattle ranked with you as a favorite major league city where you would spend 3 days?
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
4:34 pm
Does anyone know if Proctor is going to be a FA after the season.
Don’t think so. He had five years and 43 days is what you’re saying, right? At that, he would have had to come up in late April/early May to accrue enough days this year. Pretty sure, anyway.
Arkansas Transplant
June 30th, 2011
4:35 pm
Whoop, that’s the way to be on the positive side… way to go.
bravesgrl4life
June 30th, 2011
4:36 pm
BravesAC – Seattle is defintely a place you can spend 3 days.
TennesseePaul
June 30th, 2011
4:37 pm
MFin04, that’s true, but it’s playing with fire. Eventually even the weak ones start leaking through. But like you said, he has a solid WHIP.
FW
June 30th, 2011
4:37 pm
Why not put JJ out there & see whats available? Keep all your options open & make the best deal I say, call me Red Sox, Yanks, Dodgers we need to talk…………………………………………………
tiger297
June 30th, 2011
4:41 pm
I think proctor is already a FA…think he got it when he was dropped from the Dodgers 40 man
timthebrave
June 30th, 2011
4:42 pm
Braves got 2 good players coming back…Prado and Uggla…Not sure who that guy wearing his uniform is but it’s not Uggla. Chipper should take a couple of weeks and get healthy and let’s see what happens. Moylan and Medlen can help out in the bullpen in august and september…I think we got the pieces to win and win now without giving up the future
bravesgrl4life
June 30th, 2011
4:44 pm
Okay folks, this is the last you’ll hear from me until Monday. Going to FL for the weekend and not taking the laptop. Have a great 4th of July and GO BRAVES!!!!
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
4:44 pm
tiger is probably right there re Proctor, I forgot about that. I was concentrating too much on the service time.
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
4:45 pm
DAP, like the Jurrjens conversation, I’m not too concerned about what Hardy has done this year but what he’s likely to do.
I agree that in a vacuum, I’d probably take Hardy over Gonzalez the rest of the way. But if I already have Gonzalez, I don’t know that I would give up additional talent to get Hardy because I don’t think the difference from here on out between Hardy and Gonzalez will be that great.
Sure, if the Braves can get Hardy without giving up much and they can make it work from a roster-space perspective, I’m all for it.
BravesAC
June 30th, 2011
4:46 pm
BravesGirl4Life -
Living in Spokane, I guess the family and I tend to go Oregon or Montana ways for vacations but the 4 days we spent in Seattle while the Braves were in town sure reminded me of just how fun Seattle can be. The weather was beautiful and sitting on the balcony of the waterfront room at the Edgewater watching all the boat traffic go by all hours of the day was pretty cool. Never spent time at Alki beach before and that was fun Sunday.
Shaun
June 30th, 2011
4:48 pm
MFin04, that’s true, but it’s playing with fire. Eventually even the weak ones start leaking through. But like you said, he has a solid WHIP.
TennesseePaul, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I think Jurrjens has a solid WHIP and will continue to have a pretty good WHIP. I think he’s a solid pitcher not an elite one, like his ERA seems to suggest. Nothing wrong with solid.
Earl Williams
June 30th, 2011
4:49 pm
PDOG–You don’t want Infante.Very salient point nade by someone earlier that his talent was vastly overrated due to one year. In half a season the man may have hit 25 balls on the nose.
Bat, why is it seemingly all right for people to continue to tout the thought Uggla “will definitely be better in the 2nd half” or “he can’t be this bad in the 2nd half” or any other way of saying “Uggla will hit?” Yet when I try to cast a little bit of what I “believe” to be reality over the situation, that is a bad thing. You call on me to quit talking about it and everyone has already read it. I understand they have already read it. How many do you think will use their eyes to get it? What does the man have to do? Half the season is gone. Ask anyone if “half a season” of this crap is a “slump?” The man has completed 10% of his 5 year deal. Do you believe the Braves would have made this deal if they could have looked into the future only as far as July 1,2011? Do you think the Braves with that futuristic look may have said in meetings-”This is really strange. Something is going on.We can’t sign this guy” or do you think they say-”Blank it. It just takes him a while to warm up.He will hit.” Which one would have been most likely to play out?
What if you read in the newspaper every day from columnists or letters to the editor something that you absolutely did not believe–something like Newt will get the Republican nomination–and let’s say you had a huge interest in politics and you got much of your GOOD info from that newspaper. Let’s also assume it was really easy to access that paper with your comments and let’s farther assume the Newt talk continued every day, even into March 2012. Would you really not respond to something you believe is craziness?
Now I could see if he had got to .200 or he was showing at least twice the run productivity of Omar Infante. But he has not. Maybe I just had too much respect for Cervantes. Even though you see it as tilting at windmills, I view it as an appeal for rationality. It also gives people pleasure when he hits a 3 run homer to increase a 7-1 lead to 10-1 to be able to come on here and say something along the lines of “What now doubters?”
Read the Jeter article.
Murph
June 30th, 2011
4:49 pm
On a completely unrelated note, I just discovered the Foo Fighter’s acoustic version of Everlong… so freakin’ awesome.
Makes me happy that there are still “alternative” bands out there doing their thing. Makes me sick that bands like Coldplay get lumped into the same category as they could not carry the Foo Fighter’s jocks, but whatev.
N8
June 30th, 2011
4:51 pm
“Again, there’s no guarantee that Teheran/Delgado/Minor/Beachy/Medlen are going to be the superstars people are claiming they’re going to be.”
Nope. There isn’t. But there also isn’t any guarantee that Chipper stays healthy, Dan Uggla decides to earn his paycheck and Heyward is healthy or hitting.
So, I take it you’re in the “ride it out” camp or the “make a smaller trade” camp?
Because just like last year, trading for somebody of Rick Ankiel’s ability just isn’t going to cut it. Wren needs to be bold, but not stupid.
phil
June 30th, 2011
4:52 pm
Proctor will be in high demand this offseason…
Murph
June 30th, 2011
4:53 pm
Proctor will be in high demand this offseason…
As in “I demand that assclown is no longer on the team!”?
ncscoots
June 30th, 2011
4:53 pm
Proctor will be in high demand this offseason…
Yes, I’m hoping the price of high-octane gas goes down this offseason, also.