we used really work the opposition SP into high pitch counts last year
I’d be interested to see if that were actually true. It certainly seems reasonable on the face of it, but that’s usually when the actual facts tend to reach up and give one a bruise.
AtlYnkHtr and phil, 6 IP and 3 ER are the minimum requirements.
The average ERA in all quality starts is much lower than 4.50 (the ERA from 6 IP and 3 ER).
There is something very very odd about this argument. Something here sounds slightly ridiculous, that’s all. I am sure someone who is far brighter and more articulate will put their finger on it for me.
(TnPaul, scoots – please..)
the answer to the braves problems is playing ss stop for the mets. thats who the braves need the outfield is fine with mclouth prado and heyward but the lineup is not fine without a leadoff hitter
Jose Reyes just isn’t good enough for this Braves team.
I mean sure, on base, average, maybe slugging, SB, those are all good. But he just doesn’t have that clubhouse type of attitude that we need to put this offense over the top.
Thankfully, Snot does not deem me bright and/or articulate enough to respond. Just a joke Shaun.
Yes there has to be a minimum but arguing against raising (thats scoots) bar to bring it closer to the average while not raising the upper limit just seems rather flawed. Maybe it is not worth it in the grand scheme of things in order to compare this “stat” to prior years, but the main point was the fact that we need to start tempering our expectations on what offense and pitching looks like if these stats (ERA and Runs per Game) are going to be the new norm. Not really about QS, it was just used as a starting point for the discussion.
Shaun – I knew the 6 and 3 for quality starts….thanks for the enlightenment….
win-loss is not a great standard, yes.
7 innings, 2-3 earned runs, i can live that as some possible measure of effectiveness, but i still don’t like the word “quality”….
Again, too much reliance on statistics….the game is played between the lines and the fences…an ERA of 2.04 in “quality” starts in 2005 just makes me want to set fire to head….i don’t care and don’t want to know….i do want to know wins and losses and world championships.
Conversation and stats and reading about them are great for that limited purpose but beyond that, can the guy hit? Can the guy pitch? Can the guy field the ball? Can the guy throw? Can he draw a walk now and then? We make the game too dang complicated, like everything else in life…
I know the aw-fense is terrible – but SD’s is worse. Can someone explain to me how we got outscored by SD and how this team manages to get beat by teams with losing records continually?
SB, I might put in a little time on that project, re starters’ pitch counts last year versus this. May not do anything but confirm our perceptions, but what the heck…
Phil, you lost me at…Conversation and stats and reading about them are great for that limited purpose but beyond that, can the guy hit? Can the guy pitch? Can the guy field the ball? Can the guy throw? Can he draw a walk now and then? We make the game too dang complicated, like everything else in life…
The answers to those questions are stats. Avg ERA in QS whatever, that in and of itself means nothing you are right. I dunno, maybe I dont get your point.
Yao Ming was voted the starting center every year in the NBA even when he didn’t play and was out for the whole year (Which was pretty much every year for the last 5 years).
Untrue. But there’s a big difference in “display of emotion” and “bush-league bulls***”, and you don’t need a white paper or Supreme Court ruling to know the difference. I think maybe Reyes has been guilty of the latter too often to get the benefit of the doubt on the former.
DOB- glad to see mccann finally get the credit hes been deserving of the last three years and all but sealed starting catcher for the NL. i think those stats you threw out on mclouth, hopefully makes him the CF when prado comes back.
I do believe Buster got some of those votes before he was incapacitated.
On the flip side you’ve got Chipper in 2nd place when… nevermind, on second look it appears he’s actually pretty deserving of being in 2nd based on the stats.
Wow, down year for NL 3B. Not a whole lot of good production coming from that position this season.
I think you guys are way off base in your efforts to quantify hitting coach performance.
The measure of a hitting coach (to me) is the degree to which he helps his players achieve the maximum possible result based on their particular abilities. To measure how good a job he’s doing, you’d have to first determine the maximum likely potential of the lineups he’s working with.
I’m sure some stat-geek could have a field day with that, but it’s way beyond my interest.
The other thing I would expect from a good hitting coach is evidence that he helps good hitters break out of slumps, and helps them quickly abandon bad habits that they might develop. Hard to see where our hitting coach has had too much success in that department.
“Not put voting entirely in the hands of sheepish fans.”
Fans should not vote period, I agree. Or it should be like American Idol where fans vote, and the judges/producers fudge the votes behind the scenes and pick whoever they want to win.
SB, I get the oddity of the QS ERA. Worked out it is a 4.50 ERA. but the catch is in the fact that more often than not, most QS are a pitcher pitching six innings and allowing less than 3 runs, hence the ERA in a QS is lower than 4.5. Then there are guys who obtain the QS who pitch more than 6 innings, which also results in a lower ERA for a QS.
I like Nolan’s 7 innings pitched requirement. He aims to get the kids pitching more than 200 innings in a season which is better for the team. It reduces the strain on a bull pen, and allows for a team to carry an extra bat on the bench.
Aiming for a QS minimum every outing would result in a 4.50 ERA and 210 innings pitched. That’s practically a Derek Lowe in his late 30’s. It isn’t pretty. It’s the “innings eater” of a rotation. But there is a need for such.
June 27th, 2011
3:54 pm
“Phil, you lost me at…Conversation and stats and reading about them are great for that limited purpose but beyond that, can the guy hit? Can the guy pitch? Can the guy field the ball? Can the guy throw? Can he draw a walk now and then? We make the game too dang complicated, like everything else in life…
The answers to those questions are stats. Avg ERA in QS whatever, that in and of itself means nothing you are right. I dunno, maybe I dont get your point.”
All I’m saying is we have a stat for everything and it will eventually make the head swim. There’s still a place for gut instinct in the game, I hope.
Luv Ross. Perfect bench guy/ clubhouse guy and the BEST backup catcher in baseball. I haven’t always believed in the Vet catcher behind McCann. Corky Miller was absolutely worse than having Brayan Pena for instance. Ross surely deserves more AB and PT but at what expense?
True baseball fans appreciate Ross’ for his work and attitude.
scoots, that was sarcasm. To your other point, he seems to be popular in his own clubhouse, well at least I have not heard anything to the contrary. So if he is doing bush league BS it would come back to hurt him or his teammates in terms of HBPs right? I honestly do not remember an incident that would fit your opinion of him, but then again I don’t see many Mets games these days.
Brian,
In your 1:19 remarks- with you 100% on the trading McCann, or any other change for him.
As for the “bizzaro world”-ness of Prado as a “super utility” man…why not?
In the first place,I did not suggest that. I was simply pointing out how the trading for a single bat could,indeed, be a catalyst for the Braves’ offense. An outfield of Pence and Heyward at the corners is argueably better, O and D wise than one of Prado and Heyward, especially so when Prado will probably play a significant role with starts, pinch hitting (against leftys),and late inning strategy. Not to mention the plus factor of his being able to fill in for both Chipper and Freddy with minimum disruption.
Seems to me that’s improvement in the two areas that need it most; sorry it doesn’t solve the issues in center,but Wren has to do something!
By the way, my personal preference would be to pick up Keppinger and leave Prado in left (if only one single move is available)…less cash, less cost in prospects,less change. Not as much offensive improvement. Thanks for your opinion.
I like Nolan’s 7 innings pitched requirement. He aims to get the kids pitching more than 200 innings in a season which is better for the team. It reduces the strain on a bull pen, and allows for a team to carry an extra bat on the bench.
I like that philosophy. The Rangers definitely have a different take on their pitching. They convert journeymen relievers and position players into consistent SPs, go deeper into the game (pitch counts be damned) and actually avoid investing heavily in free agent pitchers. Nice idea if it works. So far it seems okay.
A lot about Quality Starts depends on how you view them. One way of looking at them is that after six innings, your team is no further behind than a 3-0 score (hardly unheard of to come from behind to erase a three run deficit – and yes, I do realize that’ a steep climb for the current Braves’ offense, but nonetheless) and what that indicates is that you are still in the game with a third of the game left to play.
If you decide what typically a team wants, it’s first not to have a starter knocked out of the game. Three runs allowed in 6 innings will typically keep a pitcher in the game. The six innings allows three relief pitchers, who then have a chance to hold and save the game. It’s a pragmatic stat that identifies starters that keep their teams in the game for relief pitchers. It has, by and large, replaced complete games as a benchmark for starting pitchers. I guess they needed something.
who care if reyes is having a career year i aint saying lock him up i am saying trade for him this year as a rental… and person with any common sense will be able to see the upgrade a ss
AYH, I must admit, my own perception of Reyes has always been that he’s more than a little bush. Remember, I’m a dinosaur, though. I’m not much for rah-rah; that’s just the way I was taught to play the game. A guy who legs out a double down 6-0 and then gives me a fist-pump and some hand-claps…I’m pretty sure my next pitch to the guy is somewhere around the lips, LOL.
so a quality start is one in which your chance in coming back from a defecit is harldy unheard of? I think that would include those where the deficit is larger than 3, probably up to 5.
Mike, I also think a hitting coach is tasked with getting hitters prepared for the pitcher they are going to face on any given night.
Based on the Braves’ hitters performance against the unknown pitcher, the rookie or the guy they haven’t faced previously, I’d say they’ve never done a very good job of that. Not sure if the fault for that goes to the hitting coach, the scouting department, or the individual hitters… probably some combination of all 3.
Of the Braves top three pitchers, Hudson, Hanson and Jurrjens, on average Jurrjens pitches 6.8 innings per start (total innings/games started), he is the team leader. Of the Phillies big three, Halladay. Hamels and Lee, they all average 7 or over innings per start. I am not sure what this means and certainly the argument can be made that Manuel is overworking them, but the Braves are much more reliant on relief pitching..
scotts, alright I get it. I still play pick up basketball and I have my moments with the 20 something crowd. Some things rub a guy the wrong way. I think that most of Reyes’ opponents and teammates come from a different era where that is way more acceptable. They realize the emotion and enthusiasm (even misguided) is a way for guys to get paid in endorsements and media attention and the game has become about $ for them, so they appear to look the other way I guess.
Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest. Besides, all that union brotherhood has taken most of the mean out of the game, anyway, LOL. Hard to hate a guy, let alone put a fastball in his ribs, after you’ve griped about The Man together.
Well, apparently those who came up with the Quality Start thought three runs was what they felt was reasonable. Maybe next time they’ll ask your opinion.
“Their worst batting season in the last 20 years was in 1995 when they hit for .250 and a 326 OBP.”
This is snipped from an excellent backboard post. I thought it was particularly interesting in that the year we had our worst batting season was the one where we ended the season celebrating (another) Tom Glavine masterpiece.
They realize the emotion and enthusiasm (even misguided) is a way for guys to get paid in endorsements and media attention and the game has become about $ for them, so they appear to look the other way I guess.
Wasnt there a theory floating around that the big hitters for the Yankees and Red Sox spent tens of minutes per AB preening for the camera hoping to translate it into a big payday? Slightly cynical but all that neurotic glove and cup adjustments cant be for nothing.
I thought it was particularly interesting in that the year we had our worst batting season …
It happened to be the year that the Braves had the best pitching in the majors. They won against the second best pitching in the majors backed by the best offense in the majors. That year the Braves had really, really good pitching.
I think this current team has good pitching, but I’d like to have more offense. Right now they have really, really bad hitting.
I like it! Then, we can have riveting discussions on whether posters are in a slump or if they’ll regress to their baseball card before the season is over.
Adam Dunn is 1 for 51 vs lefties. Career OPS vs lefties is .797. Uggla is 10 for 83 vs lefties. Uggla’s career numbers are way lower vs lefties. I wonder if our esteemed Fredi, would ever do the reverse platoon? Conrad doesnt do that much better, but it might be sample size (54 ABs).
Mike, probably true. I’m a humorous kinda guy, but not everybody gets my sense of humor. Thus, the need for visual aids. I’ll try to cut back a little.
But I probably won’t be as funny. Just so you know.
Tom, I still love reading the overnights, for the most part. It used to be that one of my favorite parts of the day was scanning this sucker first thing in the morning. I just read ‘em a little later now, and fewer pages. Still good, though.
If they do, I will tell them that some guy once told me it should mean a start where your chance of winning is not unheard of, and we will laugh and laugh and laugh.
No no no ’scoots. If you cut out the LOLs I won’t know when you’re kidding around, and I’ll probably get mad at you, and launch into a F-bomb-laced all-caps tirade (a la veer), and get bounced off the blog.
Then I’ll have to change my IP address and think up a new blog moniker. It took me 2 weeks to come up with MikeInFl (I thought about BobInNY but it didn’t seem quite right, somehow).
Ward seems to be losing his composure somewhat, lashing out more, coming up with crazier and crazier trade ideas. All these close games are getting to him, the Braves need several blowout wins in a row to take the pressure off him. His High Hopes!! have turned into well maybe just one toke.
No no no ’scoots. If you cut out the LOLs I won’t know when you’re kidding around, and I’ll probably get mad at you, and launch into a F-bomb-laced all-caps tirade (a la veer), and get bounced off the blog.
1) I wish you’d correct my grammatical errors before re-posting it.
2) I have a summer-long outdoor project, here at the home base. I wish I could be a little further ahead with it, but I have to wait until everything dries out. The frequent showers we’ve been getting have put a damper on my estimated time of completion.
3) Even a physical specimen, such as myself, needs a break once in a while.
Ward is a one-run loss away from packing up his sleeping bag and Berenstein Bear jammies, loading his AK-47, and heading to Philadelphia to even the score.
I like the guy, but I will not be inviting him to the opening of Murph’s Sopapillaporium out of concern for what a little sugar might do to his balance.
1,315 comments Add your comment
Shaun
June 27th, 2011
3:33 pm
In my 3.30 pm post, those are the cumulative ERA’s for all Quality Starts in those years.
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
3:34 pm
we used really work the opposition SP into high pitch counts last year
I’d be interested to see if that were actually true. It certainly seems reasonable on the face of it, but that’s usually when the actual facts tend to reach up and give one a bruise.
Snotboogie
June 27th, 2011
3:36 pm
AtlYnkHtr and phil, 6 IP and 3 ER are the minimum requirements.
The average ERA in all quality starts is much lower than 4.50 (the ERA from 6 IP and 3 ER).
There is something very very odd about this argument. Something here sounds slightly ridiculous, that’s all. I am sure someone who is far brighter and more articulate will put their finger on it for me.
(TnPaul, scoots – please..)
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
3:39 pm
SB, you can leave me out of it, thank you very much.
Snotboogie
June 27th, 2011
3:41 pm
I dont know how and where to look for that particular stat scoots.
I probably should’ve said “it seemed like” it.
blo
June 27th, 2011
3:42 pm
the answer to the braves problems is playing ss stop for the mets. thats who the braves need the outfield is fine with mclouth prado and heyward but the lineup is not fine without a leadoff hitter
MFin04
June 27th, 2011
3:44 pm
Jose Reyes just isn’t good enough for this Braves team.
I mean sure, on base, average, maybe slugging, SB, those are all good. But he just doesn’t have that clubhouse type of attitude that we need to put this offense over the top.
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
3:44 pm
Thankfully, Snot does not deem me bright and/or articulate enough to respond. Just a joke Shaun.
Yes there has to be a minimum but arguing against raising (thats scoots) bar to bring it closer to the average while not raising the upper limit just seems rather flawed. Maybe it is not worth it in the grand scheme of things in order to compare this “stat” to prior years, but the main point was the fact that we need to start tempering our expectations on what offense and pitching looks like if these stats (ERA and Runs per Game) are going to be the new norm. Not really about QS, it was just used as a starting point for the discussion.
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
3:46 pm
MFin04, plus he is flashy and the old guard hates that. No place in baseball for genuine emotion.
phil
June 27th, 2011
3:49 pm
Shaun – I knew the 6 and 3 for quality starts….thanks for the enlightenment….
win-loss is not a great standard, yes.
7 innings, 2-3 earned runs, i can live that as some possible measure of effectiveness, but i still don’t like the word “quality”….
Again, too much reliance on statistics….the game is played between the lines and the fences…an ERA of 2.04 in “quality” starts in 2005 just makes me want to set fire to head….i don’t care and don’t want to know….i do want to know wins and losses and world championships.
Conversation and stats and reading about them are great for that limited purpose but beyond that, can the guy hit? Can the guy pitch? Can the guy field the ball? Can the guy throw? Can he draw a walk now and then? We make the game too dang complicated, like everything else in life…
Kentavo
June 27th, 2011
3:51 pm
I know the aw-fense is terrible – but SD’s is worse. Can someone explain to me how we got outscored by SD and how this team manages to get beat by teams with losing records continually?
phil
June 27th, 2011
3:51 pm
Reyes is having a career year. He will not repeat it. Write it down. Stay away from this guy.
David O'Brien
June 27th, 2011
3:52 pm
Braves’ McCann now has more than 3 million All-Star votes to Yadier Molina’s 2.27 million among NL catchers. Posey 3rd w/ 1.85 million.
Chipper Jones is 2nd among NL 3Bs with 2.04 mill votes, well behind Phillies’ Placido Polanco (3.26 million)
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
3:53 pm
SB, I might put in a little time on that project, re starters’ pitch counts last year versus this. May not do anything but confirm our perceptions, but what the heck…
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
3:54 pm
Phil, you lost me at…Conversation and stats and reading about them are great for that limited purpose but beyond that, can the guy hit? Can the guy pitch? Can the guy field the ball? Can the guy throw? Can he draw a walk now and then? We make the game too dang complicated, like everything else in life…
The answers to those questions are stats. Avg ERA in QS whatever, that in and of itself means nothing you are right. I dunno, maybe I dont get your point.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
3:54 pm
ugh…I hate All Star voting. Buster Posey – who can’t walk – has garnered nearly 2 million votes. It’s a joke.
TennesseePaul
June 27th, 2011
3:55 pm
SB: For 2010 Pitches per plate appearances: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2010-batting.shtml#players_pitches_batting::none
and for 2011, change the year in the link to 2011.
TennesseePaul
June 27th, 2011
3:56 pm
2010: 3.88
2011: 3.82
MFin04
June 27th, 2011
3:57 pm
“I hate All Star voting”
Yao Ming was voted the starting center every year in the NBA even when he didn’t play and was out for the whole year (Which was pretty much every year for the last 5 years).
China/Asia has a lot of people. What can you do?
TennesseePaul
June 27th, 2011
3:57 pm
Of course, that is entirely the opp. pitching, not starting only…
RemoW
June 27th, 2011
3:57 pm
Don’t know if this has been posted. But for all the Chipper haters, they are gonna hate.
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/12915/better-career-griffey-jr-or-chipper
Chipper Jones, 1995-2006, ages 23 to 34
.304/.402/.541, .943 OPS, 357 HRs, 1,198 RBIs, 0 Gold Gloves, 1 MVP
12-year average: 146 G, 30 HRs, 100 RBIs
Ken Griffey Jr., 1989-2000, ages 19 to 30
.296/.380/.568, .948 OPS, 438 HRs, 1,270 RBIs, 10 Gold Gloves, 1 MVP
12-year average: 140 G, 36 HRs, 106 RBIs
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
3:59 pm
No place in baseball for genuine emotion.
Untrue. But there’s a big difference in “display of emotion” and “bush-league bulls***”, and you don’t need a white paper or Supreme Court ruling to know the difference. I think maybe Reyes has been guilty of the latter too often to get the benefit of the doubt on the former.
Bigwheel
June 27th, 2011
3:59 pm
DOB- glad to see mccann finally get the credit hes been deserving of the last three years and all but sealed starting catcher for the NL. i think those stats you threw out on mclouth, hopefully makes him the CF when prado comes back.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
3:59 pm
What can you do?
Not put voting entirely in the hands of sheepish fans.
Murph
June 27th, 2011
4:00 pm
I do believe Buster got some of those votes before he was incapacitated.
On the flip side you’ve got Chipper in 2nd place when… nevermind, on second look it appears he’s actually pretty deserving of being in 2nd based on the stats.
Wow, down year for NL 3B. Not a whole lot of good production coming from that position this season.
MFin04
June 27th, 2011
4:02 pm
Did you guys here the new format of the All-Star Game this year? Pretty exciting.
NL vs Yankees/Red Sox
MikeInFl
June 27th, 2011
4:03 pm
I think you guys are way off base in your efforts to quantify hitting coach performance.
The measure of a hitting coach (to me) is the degree to which he helps his players achieve the maximum possible result based on their particular abilities. To measure how good a job he’s doing, you’d have to first determine the maximum likely potential of the lineups he’s working with.
I’m sure some stat-geek could have a field day with that, but it’s way beyond my interest.
The other thing I would expect from a good hitting coach is evidence that he helps good hitters break out of slumps, and helps them quickly abandon bad habits that they might develop. Hard to see where our hitting coach has had too much success in that department.
MFin04
June 27th, 2011
4:04 pm
“Not put voting entirely in the hands of sheepish fans.”
Fans should not vote period, I agree. Or it should be like American Idol where fans vote, and the judges/producers fudge the votes behind the scenes and pick whoever they want to win.
McFann :Ô: :Ô:
June 27th, 2011
4:05 pm
YAY, BMac! You go, big guy!!
TennesseePaul
June 27th, 2011
4:07 pm
SB, I get the oddity of the QS ERA. Worked out it is a 4.50 ERA. but the catch is in the fact that more often than not, most QS are a pitcher pitching six innings and allowing less than 3 runs, hence the ERA in a QS is lower than 4.5. Then there are guys who obtain the QS who pitch more than 6 innings, which also results in a lower ERA for a QS.
I like Nolan’s 7 innings pitched requirement. He aims to get the kids pitching more than 200 innings in a season which is better for the team. It reduces the strain on a bull pen, and allows for a team to carry an extra bat on the bench.
Aiming for a QS minimum every outing would result in a 4.50 ERA and 210 innings pitched. That’s practically a Derek Lowe in his late 30’s. It isn’t pretty. It’s the “innings eater” of a rotation. But there is a need for such.
MFin04
June 27th, 2011
4:07 pm
“Big guy”
I’m offended McFann. Brian worked hard this off-season to be a littler big guy. Take it back!
phil
June 27th, 2011
4:08 pm
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
3:54 pm
“Phil, you lost me at…Conversation and stats and reading about them are great for that limited purpose but beyond that, can the guy hit? Can the guy pitch? Can the guy field the ball? Can the guy throw? Can he draw a walk now and then? We make the game too dang complicated, like everything else in life…
The answers to those questions are stats. Avg ERA in QS whatever, that in and of itself means nothing you are right. I dunno, maybe I dont get your point.”
All I’m saying is we have a stat for everything and it will eventually make the head swim. There’s still a place for gut instinct in the game, I hope.
phil
June 27th, 2011
4:09 pm
Why isn’t David Ross getting more votes than McCann since so many bloggers think Ross is better?
mrj
June 27th, 2011
4:10 pm
Luv Ross. Perfect bench guy/ clubhouse guy and the BEST backup catcher in baseball. I haven’t always believed in the Vet catcher behind McCann. Corky Miller was absolutely worse than having Brayan Pena for instance. Ross surely deserves more AB and PT but at what expense?
True baseball fans appreciate Ross’ for his work and attitude.
Snotboogie
June 27th, 2011
4:10 pm
Thanks TnPaul. I got to that but was looking for average pitch counts/per game and/or IP by SPs.
CB
June 27th, 2011
4:11 pm
I am kind of surprised McCann only had 3 million votes,I figured McFann for at least that many.
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
4:12 pm
scoots, that was sarcasm. To your other point, he seems to be popular in his own clubhouse, well at least I have not heard anything to the contrary. So if he is doing bush league BS it would come back to hurt him or his teammates in terms of HBPs right? I honestly do not remember an incident that would fit your opinion of him, but then again I don’t see many Mets games these days.
Hoot
June 27th, 2011
4:13 pm
Brian,
In your 1:19 remarks- with you 100% on the trading McCann, or any other change for him.
As for the “bizzaro world”-ness of Prado as a “super utility” man…why not?
In the first place,I did not suggest that. I was simply pointing out how the trading for a single bat could,indeed, be a catalyst for the Braves’ offense. An outfield of Pence and Heyward at the corners is argueably better, O and D wise than one of Prado and Heyward, especially so when Prado will probably play a significant role with starts, pinch hitting (against leftys),and late inning strategy. Not to mention the plus factor of his being able to fill in for both Chipper and Freddy with minimum disruption.
Seems to me that’s improvement in the two areas that need it most; sorry it doesn’t solve the issues in center,but Wren has to do something!
By the way, my personal preference would be to pick up Keppinger and leave Prado in left (if only one single move is available)…less cash, less cost in prospects,less change. Not as much offensive improvement. Thanks for your opinion.
CrαZy
June 27th, 2011
4:13 pm
jeffrey d
I’m all for 1/3 players / 1/3 coaches and GM’s / 1/3 fans
Kentavo
June 27th, 2011
4:16 pm
Why aren’t we offering Ross to SF for Lincecum?
Snotboogie
June 27th, 2011
4:16 pm
I like Nolan’s 7 innings pitched requirement. He aims to get the kids pitching more than 200 innings in a season which is better for the team. It reduces the strain on a bull pen, and allows for a team to carry an extra bat on the bench.
I like that philosophy. The Rangers definitely have a different take on their pitching. They convert journeymen relievers and position players into consistent SPs, go deeper into the game (pitch counts be damned) and actually avoid investing heavily in free agent pitchers. Nice idea if it works. So far it seems okay.
Lew
June 27th, 2011
4:16 pm
A lot about Quality Starts depends on how you view them. One way of looking at them is that after six innings, your team is no further behind than a 3-0 score (hardly unheard of to come from behind to erase a three run deficit – and yes, I do realize that’ a steep climb for the current Braves’ offense, but nonetheless) and what that indicates is that you are still in the game with a third of the game left to play.
Mudge
June 27th, 2011
4:17 pm
If you decide what typically a team wants, it’s first not to have a starter knocked out of the game. Three runs allowed in 6 innings will typically keep a pitcher in the game. The six innings allows three relief pitchers, who then have a chance to hold and save the game. It’s a pragmatic stat that identifies starters that keep their teams in the game for relief pitchers. It has, by and large, replaced complete games as a benchmark for starting pitchers. I guess they needed something.
Fish Bisch
June 27th, 2011
4:24 pm
What’s DOB’s requirement for a quality Blog?
blo
June 27th, 2011
4:25 pm
who care if reyes is having a career year i aint saying lock him up i am saying trade for him this year as a rental… and person with any common sense will be able to see the upgrade a ss
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:25 pm
AYH, I must admit, my own perception of Reyes has always been that he’s more than a little bush. Remember, I’m a dinosaur, though.
I’m not much for rah-rah; that’s just the way I was taught to play the game. A guy who legs out a double down 6-0 and then gives me a fist-pump and some hand-claps…I’m pretty sure my next pitch to the guy is somewhere around the lips, LOL.
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:26 pm
Why aren’t we offering Ross to SF for Lincecum?
Saving him for a bat, LOL?
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
4:27 pm
so a quality start is one in which your chance in coming back from a defecit is harldy unheard of? I think that would include those where the deficit is larger than 3, probably up to 5.
Murph
June 27th, 2011
4:27 pm
Mike, I also think a hitting coach is tasked with getting hitters prepared for the pitcher they are going to face on any given night.
Based on the Braves’ hitters performance against the unknown pitcher, the rookie or the guy they haven’t faced previously, I’d say they’ve never done a very good job of that. Not sure if the fault for that goes to the hitting coach, the scouting department, or the individual hitters… probably some combination of all 3.
Mudge
June 27th, 2011
4:30 pm
Of the Braves top three pitchers, Hudson, Hanson and Jurrjens, on average Jurrjens pitches 6.8 innings per start (total innings/games started), he is the team leader. Of the Phillies big three, Halladay. Hamels and Lee, they all average 7 or over innings per start. I am not sure what this means and certainly the argument can be made that Manuel is overworking them, but the Braves are much more reliant on relief pitching..
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
4:32 pm
scotts, alright I get it. I still play pick up basketball and I have my moments with the 20 something crowd. Some things rub a guy the wrong way. I think that most of Reyes’ opponents and teammates come from a different era where that is way more acceptable. They realize the emotion and enthusiasm (even misguided) is a way for guys to get paid in endorsements and media attention and the game has become about $ for them, so they appear to look the other way I guess.
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:37 pm
so they appear to look the other way I guess.
Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest. Besides, all that union brotherhood has taken most of the mean out of the game, anyway, LOL. Hard to hate a guy, let alone put a fastball in his ribs, after you’ve griped about The Man together.
Lew
June 27th, 2011
4:37 pm
Well, apparently those who came up with the Quality Start thought three runs was what they felt was reasonable. Maybe next time they’ll ask your opinion.
Gone Viral
June 27th, 2011
4:37 pm
“Their worst batting season in the last 20 years was in 1995 when they hit for .250 and a 326 OBP.”
This is snipped from an excellent backboard post. I thought it was particularly interesting in that the year we had our worst batting season was the one where we ended the season celebrating (another) Tom Glavine masterpiece.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
4:37 pm
What’s DOB’s requirement for a quality Blog?
At least 6 pages of comments with 3 pages worth of crazy comments.
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:41 pm
jeffrey, I thought it was six pages of comments with at least three sane ones, total.
Snotboogie
June 27th, 2011
4:43 pm
They realize the emotion and enthusiasm (even misguided) is a way for guys to get paid in endorsements and media attention and the game has become about $ for them, so they appear to look the other way I guess.
Wasnt there a theory floating around that the big hitters for the Yankees and Red Sox spent tens of minutes per AB preening for the camera hoping to translate it into a big payday? Slightly cynical but all that neurotic glove and cup adjustments cant be for nothing.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
4:43 pm
We need blog baseball cards.
TennesseePaul
June 27th, 2011
4:45 pm
I thought it was particularly interesting in that the year we had our worst batting season …
It happened to be the year that the Braves had the best pitching in the majors. They won against the second best pitching in the majors backed by the best offense in the majors. That year the Braves had really, really good pitching.
I think this current team has good pitching, but I’d like to have more offense. Right now they have really, really bad hitting.
Fish Bisch
June 27th, 2011
4:45 pm
The same 6 – 3 rules apply to the blog? Sweet.
I want my card to be made like a 90’s upper deck card.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
4:46 pm
Tomahawkin, 2010 O’Brien Blog
EPF 7.2
OS 204
IPD 4.1
Key
EPF = Exclamation Point Frequency
OS = Overshares
IPD = Illogical Posts/Day
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:47 pm
We need blog baseball cards.
I like it! Then, we can have riveting discussions on whether posters are in a slump or if they’ll regress to their baseball card before the season is over.
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
4:47 pm
Adam Dunn is 1 for 51 vs lefties. Career OPS vs lefties is .797. Uggla is 10 for 83 vs lefties. Uggla’s career numbers are way lower vs lefties. I wonder if our esteemed Fredi, would ever do the reverse platoon? Conrad doesnt do that much better, but it might be sample size (54 ABs).
monty
June 27th, 2011
4:48 pm
We had Ken Griffey Jr all along and didn’t even know it!
MikeInFl
June 27th, 2011
4:49 pm
ncscoots’ LOLQ (Laugh Out Load Quotient – the number of LOL’s used per post) would be higher than Pujols’ career OPS, I think.
TennesseePaul
June 27th, 2011
4:49 pm
Mid season awards.
I don’t really put much stock in these things, but it is pretty cool to see so many Braves in the rookie list… Beachy, Freeman, Kimbrel…
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:52 pm
I think Ward’s card should be in every pack, by the way.
monty
June 27th, 2011
4:53 pm
I like Beachy and hope he pitches swell tonight but with their tough (over powering) LH going tonight I’m going to go ahead and call BALLGAME!
Gone Viral
June 27th, 2011
4:53 pm
“That year the Braves had really, really good pitching.”
Yes, they certainly did. Our ERA+ for the entire 1995 staff was 125. The 2011 Braves are at 123.
monty
June 27th, 2011
4:54 pm
MikeInFl
I was thinking the same thing.
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:54 pm
Mike, probably true. I’m a humorous kinda guy, but not everybody gets my sense of humor. Thus, the need for visual aids. I’ll try to cut back a little.
But I probably won’t be as funny. Just so you know.
Gone Viral
June 27th, 2011
4:55 pm
Also, the 1995 team’s offense had an OPS+ of 91. The 2011 team is currently at…wait for it…91.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
4:56 pm
I appreciate your humor, ncscoots
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
4:58 pm
Thank you, jeffrey.
(I’d throw that abbreviation in there, but, you know…cutting back and all.)
brian
June 27th, 2011
4:58 pm
thanks for your optimism monty.
I like the games to be played and not just call them on paper though
Tom O'Hawke
June 27th, 2011
4:59 pm
jeffrey, I thought it was six pages of comments with at least three sane ones, total.
That’s WAAAAY to demanding for us overnight-blog guys, scoots.
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
5:02 pm
Tom, I still love reading the overnights, for the most part. It used to be that one of my favorite parts of the day was scanning this sucker first thing in the morning. I just read ‘em a little later now, and fewer pages. Still good, though.
cricket
June 27th, 2011
5:02 pm
May be he meant six pages of comments with at least three sane comments, total.
McFann :Ô: :Ô:
June 27th, 2011
5:02 pm
MFin04 I’m offended McFann. Brian worked hard this off-season to be a littler big guy. Take it back!
cabravesfan
June 27th, 2011
5:03 pm
That’s WAAAAY to demanding for us overnight-blog guys, scoots.
Tom-
You do realize that it’s only 5:00 in New York, right? Unless you are 93 years old, that is not “overnight”
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
5:03 pm
scoots already said that
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
5:04 pm
If they do, I will tell them that some guy once told me it should mean a start where your chance of winning is not unheard of, and we will laugh and laugh and laugh.
MikeInFl
June 27th, 2011
5:04 pm
No no no ’scoots. If you cut out the LOLs I won’t know when you’re kidding around, and I’ll probably get mad at you, and launch into a F-bomb-laced all-caps tirade (a la veer), and get bounced off the blog.
Then I’ll have to change my IP address and think up a new blog moniker. It took me 2 weeks to come up with MikeInFl (I thought about BobInNY but it didn’t seem quite right, somehow).
Anyway, don’t loose the LOLs, lol.
Bat Masterson
June 27th, 2011
5:04 pm
Ward seems to be losing his composure somewhat, lashing out more, coming up with crazier and crazier trade ideas. All these close games are getting to him, the Braves need several blowout wins in a row to take the pressure off him. His High Hopes!! have turned into well maybe just one toke.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
5:05 pm
No no no ’scoots. If you cut out the LOLs I won’t know when you’re kidding around, and I’ll probably get mad at you, and launch into a F-bomb-laced all-caps tirade (a la veer), and get bounced off the blog.
That’ll make your PPP skyrocket
Lew
June 27th, 2011
5:06 pm
Do I hear a little Yankee hating mosquito buzzing around looking for attention?
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
5:09 pm
Mike, I’m sorry, man. Too late now, new leaf turned. You cannot blame future bannings on my lack of abbreviation usage. Won’t fly.
That veer. What a maroon, eh?
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
5:09 pm
What’re you picking fights now, Lew?
Tom O'Hawke
June 27th, 2011
5:09 pm
cabravesfan
1) I wish you’d correct my grammatical errors before re-posting it.
2) I have a summer-long outdoor project, here at the home base. I wish I could be a little further ahead with it, but I have to wait until everything dries out. The frequent showers we’ve been getting have put a damper on my estimated time of completion.
3) Even a physical specimen, such as myself, needs a break once in a while.
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
5:10 pm
That veer. What a maroon, eh?
His ACP (all caps percentage) would never fly on a New York blog
Lew
June 27th, 2011
5:10 pm
jeffrey d – Never with you.
cricket
June 27th, 2011
5:11 pm
NEW BLOGGAGE is up
jeffrey d
June 27th, 2011
5:11 pm
Because I’m ripped.
Snotboogie
June 27th, 2011
5:12 pm
Gone Viral,
Nice catch on the season comparisons. Very interesting.
Lew
June 27th, 2011
5:12 pm
jeffrey d- Yeah, that’s why.
Tomahawkin
June 27th, 2011
5:12 pm
Bing!
“OH You Didn’t Know???
Yo Ass Better CALLLLL SOMEBODAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
What up all?
What Did I miss yesterday?
ncscoots
June 27th, 2011
5:13 pm
NEW BLOGGAGE is up
What?!? With no notification??
AtlYnkHtr
June 27th, 2011
5:13 pm
No, that is the sound of your hearing aid. time to change the battery.
Murph
June 27th, 2011
5:15 pm
Ward is a one-run loss away from packing up his sleeping bag and Berenstein Bear jammies, loading his AK-47, and heading to Philadelphia to even the score.
I like the guy, but I will not be inviting him to the opening of Murph’s Sopapillaporium out of concern for what a little sugar might do to his balance.
Tomahawkin
June 27th, 2011
5:15 pm
jeffrey d
“We need blog baseball cards.”
lol, isn’t that what Facebook is for?