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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
267 comments Add your comment
Jimmy Beam, you are my friend
April 14th, 2011
5:09 pm
Freddi, you are the manager; and I sir, TIP MY HAT to you for standing up for yourself….
Dennis Reynolds
April 14th, 2011
5:12 pm
Glove51 and coonhound-
If you intend on making such terrible suggestions, then find a little league team to follow and blog about them.
Robert Bailey
April 14th, 2011
5:15 pm
Every since his 450ft bomb off Carlos Zambrano in his first swing last April, we can’t get enough of watching Heyward at the plate..
I had enough watching him strike out in the playoff.
Einsteindawg
April 14th, 2011
5:15 pm
Hey Fredi, I’ve got a suggestion. Why not reverse the entire batting order and see what happens? Are you aware that “insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results”. Or, “the thinking that got us here is different than the thinking that will get us out of here”. Just a suggestion.
cs95
April 14th, 2011
5:17 pm
dennis reynolds, i actually like your poster with nate leadoff. although, i could also see a lineup where uggla hits fourth and then mccann/heyward hits sixth with alex hitting seventh.
Supes
April 14th, 2011
5:21 pm
Hey Joshua,
the fact that Chipper won’t bat 2nd in the lineup doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the IGNORANCE of someone like you who doesn’t seem to understand the VALUE of having a guy with a tremendously high on base percentage bat INFRONT of your 3rd and 4th hitters in a lineup.
While Chipper can still drive in runs from the 3 hole with singles, it’s much more productive to have the power of Jason Heyward hitting 3rd…and while McLouth can be “at best serviceable on base percentage wise” he isn’t as good as Chipper is at getting on base.
The whole point is Fredi G. isn’t maximizing his player’s usefulness in his LINEUP.
Conyers Braves Fan
April 14th, 2011
5:21 pm
What is amazing is all these wantabe managers on the AJC blogs continue to post worthless advice about how the Braves batting order should be set. Now at last the real manager has said it WILL NOT change. Yet these people continue to waste their time posting something they know nothing about.
Explicit
April 14th, 2011
5:24 pm
1. Heyward
2. Prado
3. Chipper
4. McCann
5. Uggla
6. McLouth
7. Gonzalez
8. Freeman
glove51
April 14th, 2011
5:26 pm
Dennis R.: can you outline why it is such a terrible suggestion. I’d be willing to wager I have coached at least 50 times as many baseball games (up to American Legion level) as you and watched in excess of 1,500 Braves games and studied baseball and how to win baseball games more than all the books on any subject you have read, if you can even read.
glove51
April 14th, 2011
5:29 pm
Batting McLouth lead-off is THE SINGLE-MOST idiotic idea posted in this entire thread.
NO MORE BOBBY
April 14th, 2011
5:37 pm
We got a younger (but not as good) Bobby Cox for manager. MLB blog today said – Fredi Gonzalez’s boys have been doing a little too much hat tipping during the season’s first 12 games.
I’m used to slow starts in April by now with the Braves but something seems different about this one.
Maybe because we were all told that swagger was back and it’s not. Looks like same old limping out of the gate team to me.
Steve
April 14th, 2011
5:51 pm
Dave what would be your lineup. You asked Freddi the question now I’m asking you how would you construct the lineup. I really have no problem with Heyward batting 6th, having a .280ba 100/100rbi/r with 30HR’s out of the 6th spot doesn’t bother me. On top of that he gives Uggla good protection and has the patients/eye to not chase pitches if he’s pitched around. If the lineup needs to be changed I would go with 1. Prado 2. Chipper-great OBP/BA/can hit to all fields(great bat control) 3. Heyward-hard to argue he’s not the best hitter in the lineup 4. McCann 5. Uggla 6. Freeman-he won’t see any pitches hitting 8th(kinda tough on a rookie) 7. Gonzalez 8. McClouth
stew
April 14th, 2011
5:56 pm
Freeman shouldn’t bat 8th. Put McLouth 8th Freeman 6th and Heyward 2nd. We gotta take advantage of Freeman’s ability to drive in runs and Heyward’s ability to get on base. Plus, the 8 hitter sometimes becomes the leadoff hitter. McLouth is better in that role than Freeman.
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
5:59 pm
Geez DOB excuse everyone for venting and giving their opinion on a BLOG for gosh sakes!
I’m sorry you don’t just report to us what Fredi says and we’re all baby birds opening our mouths to receive the regurgitation.
And why use the old lame blogument that since the manager doesn’t care what we think it means we should just shut up. That’s weak and I must say quite haughty of you.
Did you think you were gonna post what Fredi said about Heyward batting 6th and there was gonna be a universal “oh yeah that makes sense, brilliant”?
Truth is baseball people not just Braves fans have questioned it. And as far as that 4 runs a year hooey I don’t buy it. You can’t quantify the effect of a dynamic offensive player like Heyward on a study alone. You actually think with Heyward getting 70 more PAs and Mclouth 70 less PAs wouldn’t matter much? Please
Brave New World
April 14th, 2011
6:05 pm
Conyers Braves Fan April 14th, 2011 5:21 pm
What is amazing is all these wantabe managers on the AJC blogs continue to post worthless advice about how the Braves batting order should be set. Now at last the real manager has said it WILL NOT change. Yet these people continue to waste their time posting something they know nothing about.
CBF: I agree with you. My guess is most of these “experts” would be in the corner of the Braves’ dugout in a fetal position if they ever were given the responsibility of managing this team. Fredi was the right choice to manage this team, and the Braves will win about 90 or so games this year. GO BRAVES!
Ralph Nader is a loser
April 14th, 2011
6:05 pm
.
real braves fan
April 14th, 2011
6:21 pm
Great comments from Fredi. I love how all of you fools think you know more about baseball than a man who is getting paid millions of dollars to know about baseball. How many times do I see people posting on here wanting the braves to get away from the bomb squad mentality and move on to base stealing and bunting? Nate bunts and runs better than anyone on the team. Do you people honestly want to see 6 foot 5 Jason Heyward laying down a bunt to manufacture a run instead of coming up with runners on with a chance to score them with a double? If you say yes you are an idiot.
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
6:22 pm
Nate has bunted once. He has zero stolen bases. He did get picked off of first base however.
real braves fan
April 14th, 2011
6:24 pm
The year Nate came to the braves he was 100% in stolen bases…
David O'Brien
April 14th, 2011
6:31 pm
carlchamblee, regarding your 5:59 comment — Once again, since you seem to, a. have trouble unlike others grasping this, and/or b., are really into creating straw men to make your point: No one is telling or suggesting to you to stop complaining about the lineup. No one cares if you vent; we actually encourage it, because it’s good for business. Cool?
As for the four runs, that certainly isn’t me that came up with that. I’d have no idea where to even begin to quantify how many runs it’d be worth having Heyward in the 2-hole instead of the 6-hole. I just took that from FanGraphs, which used some complicated formula to come up with an exact number. Blame those guys at that site if you want to blame someone, not me.
Now please, feel free to continue criticizing any and all managerial decisions, coverage of the team, or anything else (outside of politics or religion) that feels good to get off your chest.
Just drop the straw man routine.
ExBraves Fan
April 14th, 2011
6:31 pm
The problem is NOT where these guys bat. The problem IS that these guys CANNOT HIT! THAT is the problem. They simply cannot hit. They are overrated for what they get paid. Chipper has had a very good career. McCann is a nice hitter. Jason still has a way too go. Prado is a decent player. NOT great, but good. The rest of them, you can have them all. Remember, Uggla had a great year LAST year. He has always hit HRs, but did not hit for high averages. He fans A LOT. He is a defensive liability. This basically, sadly, is a normal Atlanta Braves team. Decent pitchers, a couple of fair hitters and bunch of AAA or AA players in the field. This team has not had a TEAM of HITTERS since back when Matthews, Aaron, Torre, Mack Jones, F. Alou, Rico Carty, Clete Boyer, Felix Millan, Orlando Cepeda were all roving around together at one time or the other. These guys were the LAST of the GREAT GREAT hitting Braves. Murphy and a few others since.
N8
April 14th, 2011
6:38 pm
““Like the situation [Tuesday], when McLouth bunts [Martin] Prado over to third,” he said. “Now are you are going to play the infield in? Are you going to pitch to Chipper or pitch to [No. 4 hitter Brian] McCann? That kind of stuff.” Fredi Gonzalez
Or…. you could just have Heyward try and drive the ball to the right side, which would net the same result. Or (GASP!) might actually result in a base hit, or maybe even an extra base-hit, rather than giving up an out.
12 games in, and I’m growing tired of Fredi’s logic on some things. Ultimately, actions speak louder than words. He can say all day that he’s not moving Heyward up, but if does it in the next few weeks, we’ll all know that he was thinking the same thing we were and just waiting for the right time to do it.
Unfortunately, we appear to have a manager that didn’t recognize that OPENING DAY wasn’t soon enough to have Heyward in either the 2, 3 or 4 spot of the lineup.
It’s OK though. As long as Chipper gets to face Choate 15-20 more times this year, his HR total will be alright.
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
6:38 pm
Thanks for the permission DOB!
Maybe you prefer straw man arguments? A lot of valid counterpoints were made in response to Fredi’s defense of the lineup. Not by me alone of course but by many. I didn’t see you engage any of those other than a dismissive response to the one blogger.
Anyhoo , I did and do thank you for asking the questions that are tossed out here and for reporting the answers.
N8
April 14th, 2011
6:42 pm
DOB, perhaps I’ve asked you this before. But I’ll ask it again…. flat out.
You obviously are close to the team, but ultimately are not a “Braves fan”. But clearly somebody with inside knowledge of many things and are likely the only non coach, player to have literally “lived” with the club since February.
Where would YOU bat Heyward if you were in charge of the lineup card? Same 8 guys. Nothing else changes. Assuming everybody is healthy and erasing the recent memory of the first 12 games. Throw the results out the door.
If you were the Braves manager, upon leaving spring training, where would Heyward hit in your lineup?
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
6:43 pm
N8 what frosts me is Fredi saying he likes Mclouth seeing more fastballs at 2. How ’bout the far superior offensive weapon NOT seeing junk and “unintentional” walks with the dregs of the order following him?
Natey has racked up a 220 avg seeing all those meat pitches, guess it worked he hit 190 last year. He is “comfortable” and “going good”
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
6:45 pm
Asking DOB that might be akin to asking a political reporter who he would vote for. I can see where he might dodge that question N8.
N8
April 14th, 2011
6:51 pm
The first mistake is going all winter with Nate being in position of “his job to lose” in CF. Unfortunately, his contract dictated this – this is my only gripe about Liberty Media. The Mets just decided to cut bait on Castillo and Oliver Perez.
Clearly two guys that they DIDN’T WANT on their team. Feeling that even though they’d have to eat the money, they’d rather not compound the mistake of a bad contract by insisting on playing said player because of said contract.
Not only did Liberty Media and Wren insist on keeping Nate around, now the manager is insisting on batting him in a prime “up in the first inning of every game” spot in the order.
Bad contract. Bad decision to not eat said contract (and bring in another player). Worse decision to play the guy anyhow. Worst decision yet to bat him 2nd (which coincides with batting the face of the franchise 6th).
I thought Bobby was leaving after last year? Seems like a lot of the same crap to me.
Fredi had a chance and opportunity to come in and make his stamp. Basically saying “the old man was crazy” not batting Heyward up higher from the get go.
He had a chance to hinge his first season replacing the legend on Jason Heyward’s ability to lead this team.
He instead has chosen to let it ride on Nate McLouth.
Yikes.
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
April 14th, 2011
6:51 pm
One stolen base.
ONE. which is already ranked dead freaking last in the Majors. This one stat alone tells me everything I need to know about the mentality of our new manager.
N8
April 14th, 2011
6:51 pm
He’s answered similar questions in the past. But you might be right.
FACTS
April 14th, 2011
6:57 pm
Someone posted earlier that we are only 12 games into the season….totally true that = about 1\16 of the season…..well what happens when it’s 22 games or 32 games deep….will everyone including Fredi still be comfortable with where they are batting & the pitches they are seeing then…..just a thought Braves fans…..not venting it was just a thought!
robert
April 14th, 2011
7:00 pm
Fols i read all your comments about snacks and it made me laugh ha good sense of humor.. but about the baseball thing i agree i dont see what difference it would make heyward hitting 2 if no one hits like we tend to do once a week
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
April 14th, 2011
7:01 pm
That’s right.
We are ranked as follows:
26th in walks.
26th in batting average.
29th in OBP
29th in RBI
30 in stolen bases.
But no, Fredi is gonna keep his line up intact. Good luck is all I have to say.
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
7:01 pm
I thought for sure Nate would be out, or at least relegated to bench/platoon, or then maybe 7th or 8th in order.
CF wasn’t adressed nor was leadoff in the offseason. Now we have a good hitter (Prado) batting out of position and a bad hitter at 2.
carlchamblee
April 14th, 2011
7:03 pm
Meant to add that’s on GM for keeping him but on the mgr for putting him 2nd. A real organization-wide effort. At least they helping Nate fund his Dobie Gillis hair dye look
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
April 14th, 2011
7:04 pm
O yea, We have scored two runs or less in eight of twelve games played so far.
FACTS
April 14th, 2011
7:05 pm
I know Braves fans don’t like this guy……Nyjer Morgan, I said all off season this guy would make splash this year….that is the kinda of infusion the Braves need in our lineup….maybe we could do without his character….we need a jumpstart at the top of the batting order nuff said!
Bravefaninok
April 14th, 2011
7:37 pm
well that lineup change sure worked out for the braves……..good job boys
THE CURSE OF DAVID JUSTICE LIVES IN THE ATL
April 14th, 2011
7:52 pm
FREDI YOU ARE ONE STUPID DUMB@$$ COACH,WHY IS NATE EVEN IN THE GAME?
THE CURSE OF DAVID JUSTICE LIVES IN THE ATL
April 14th, 2011
7:53 pm
BOBBY COX IS ALREADY MISSED!
CJ
April 14th, 2011
8:04 pm
as of right now…… McLouth’s OBP (304) than Prado’s (291).
CJ
April 14th, 2011
8:05 pm
as of right now…… McLouth’s OBP (304) is better than Prado’s (291). lol
BlackCracker
April 14th, 2011
8:17 pm
Why is he talking about Mcdoodle, who gives a damn what he needs. Heyward is one of the faces of the franchise, along with Bryan Mcann, who is clearly more deserving and capable of helping the team with those atbats. Terrible stragety and lineup, worst explanation.
David O'Brien
April 14th, 2011
8:31 pm
Where would YOU bat Heyward if you were in charge of the lineup card? Same 8 guys. Nothing else changes. Assuming everybody is healthy and erasing the recent memory of the first 12 games. Throw the results out the door.
If you were the Braves manager, upon leaving spring training, where would Heyward hit in your lineup? — N8
I’d bat him fourth or fifth.
Jake
April 14th, 2011
8:40 pm
Fredi’s a smart guy, and it’s cool that he’s a “feel” guy rather than one who goes by the book all the time. I like him a lot. I hope it works out for him.
rbrave
April 14th, 2011
9:08 pm
Like the lineup, just need to start hitting ! Pendelton is still standing too close to the batters box
Churchy
April 14th, 2011
9:14 pm
Lineups are over-rated.
M10
April 14th, 2011
9:34 pm
Well I guess F.Gonzalez does’nt won’t a job because if he keeps puting up this lineup he’s going to find himself without one,because this lineup is anemic at best.He needs to move Heyward up plain and simple.
Jim Bakker
April 14th, 2011
10:02 pm
Always next year.
DWAYNE
April 14th, 2011
10:14 pm
heyward is hurt
DWAYNE
April 14th, 2011
10:15 pm
you dont take him out unless he is hurt again. watch and see
.
DWAYNE
April 14th, 2011
10:16 pm
you dont double switch your all star
E-6
April 14th, 2011
10:30 pm
Hang tonight’s loss on Beachy. Gives up a three spot, we get him the lead, he immediately gives it away. Like every other Brave pitcher he can’t bunt. Reminds me eerily of Chuck James.
Cecil
April 14th, 2011
10:31 pm
Send McLough to Jackson with a one way ticket.
dilly
April 14th, 2011
10:37 pm
Jason is not a #3 hitter, never will be. He is not disciplined enough to hit there. If you bat him after Mac, you have 2 lefties back to back. I think the line up will come around. Give Fredi a chance and quit being so critical. After the all star break – if things are still the same – then criticize. Fredi should know who needs to be where in the line up by that time.
Bob Leblaw's Law Blog
April 14th, 2011
11:16 pm
so the rookie who was tied for 4th in walks last year is not a disciplined hitter?
FACTS
April 14th, 2011
11:29 pm
For those who don’t know who the Atlanta Negro League team they were called ***The Atlanta Blackcrackers****…..found it kinda eerie when I so that handle being used on this post…..my greatgrandad had an old poster that was in pretty bad shape.
Columbus
April 15th, 2011
1:09 am
I totally agree with Fredi. Also Nate is going to be fine. He had faced some good pitching and raised his average alreay and has been hitting the ball deeper. He is going to have a good year. However McCann leading the team in steals must end like NOW. To all of you Chipper Jones haters that want him out….you obviously do not know him or baseball well. He will lead the team in walks, RBI’s, OBP and likely BA and possibly be the starting 3rd basemen in the All-star game and was leading the team in RBI’s and hitting over 300 before Thursday…morons. By the way EVERYBODY CHILL out until at least mid-MAY. It’s ridiculous to evaluate a TEAM before then unless someone is playing horrible defense or a pitcher throwing too many gopher balls or walking everyone.
iTiSi
April 15th, 2011
1:17 am
DDDY SOB’s——Different Day, Different Year, Same Old Braves !!!!
Husker Tony
April 15th, 2011
1:31 am
Boys first time I have made it to the ol’ blog since spring training. Expect the Braves to now sweep this weekend. You can thank me when it happens. Just tip of the cap will do…..
Savannah Seer
April 15th, 2011
5:23 am
If we don’t move one of our two young closers for a legit CF who can hit, then we’ll be out of it in May. Nice job Wren. If you were in charge of all the deserts, pretty soon we’d have a shortage of sand!!!
tim
April 15th, 2011
6:21 am
makes no difference who you bat where if they cannot or are not hitting it will not make a difference. this is a average team at best sure glad I was so jacked about the season getting here. Going to be a long hot summer.
bill
April 15th, 2011
7:23 am
The same guys complaining now had Chipper needing to retire, Heyward a sophomore bust,and Hanson as a head case. They need to admit they do not know diddly about baseball or start predicting the weather.
Nevada Roy
April 15th, 2011
11:11 am
My lineup would be:
1-Prado
2-Jones
3-Hayward
4-Mccann
5-Uggla
6-Freeman
7- Gonzalez
8- McLouth
Pelu Maad
April 15th, 2011
11:47 am
Man…are you guys in for a long Fredi summer. Go Fish!
Fredi Gonzalez continues to bat Jason Heyward sixth | HardballTalk
April 15th, 2011
12:31 pm
[...] Dave O’Brien of the AJC has an extended discussion of the problem today. The upshot: Fredi Gonzalez likes balance and lefty-righty stuff and, hey, you can’t let opposing teams pitch around Dan Uggla! Dan “.160/.192/.360″ Uggla. Heaven forfend. He’s sticking with Heyward in the six-hole. At this point it wouldn’t shock me if he was doing it simply so that no one can say he caved to the pressure that I and other complainers are applying. [...]
Fredi Gonzalez continues to bat Jason Heyward sixth | HardballTalk
April 15th, 2011
12:31 pm
[...] Dave O’Brien of the AJC has an extended discussion of the problem today. The upshot: Fredi Gonzalez likes balance and lefty-righty stuff and, hey, you can’t let opposing teams pitch around Dan Uggla! Dan “.160/.192/.360″ Uggla. Heaven forfend. He’s sticking with Heyward in the six-hole. At this point it wouldn’t shock me if he was doing it simply so that no one can say he caved to the pressure that I and other complainers are applying. [...]
ramblingman
April 15th, 2011
12:33 pm
“The same guys complaining now had Chipper needing to retire, Heyward a sophomore bust,and Hanson as a head case. They need to admit they do not know diddly about baseball or start predicting the weather.”
No, they just move on to complaining about something else until they are proven wrong. The current whine du jour seems to be the lineup.
Doesn’t matter what they complain about, as long as they are complaining. Most of them are actually fans, they just like to moan and b*tch and whine. Heck, some of them have never said one positive thing about the Braves. Kinda hard to claim to be a fan that way, if you ask me.
My two cents worth – the Braves don’t make the best decision every single time. That doesn’t change how I feel about the team. This is my team. I support them. I supported them in the bleak years in the 70’s and 80’s. Those teams would make the heads of some of these whiny posters explode.
Go Braves. You have true fans out here. We support you.