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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
191 comments Add your comment
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
6:14 pm
bfred….once again, your 6:07pm post misses the point. Your contention that you’d feel The Dipper would be contributing if he can play 130 games, bat .265, hit 14 homers and knock in 65 runs in 2011.
Uh, that may be decent numbers for a #6 or #7 hitter in the batting order. However, they pretty much pale in comparison to what a REAL #3 hitter should be hitting (and they certainly dont stand up to the standards that the player formerly known as Chipper Jones used to put up).
The Braves need much better “contributions” from a #3 hitter than the garbage numbers that you said you could live with in your 6:07pm post from The Dipper.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
6:15 pm
billmaier….I felt that Booby’s loyalty to Melky was typical of how much his loyalty to certain players prevented the Braves from not only winning more than 1 World Series during our 14 year run….but also hindered our hopes to make the play-offs in 2009.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
6:18 pm
billmaier……I think that it’s sad that you feel that the over/under for The Dipper’s average is .270.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
6:20 pm
I’m curious as to how many of you who play fantasy baseball…will draft The Dipper high in your fantasy draft, lol.
jacob
March 29th, 2011
6:29 pm
Foghorn –
Yes Chipper has been a shadow of his former self the past 2 years. He has also had injury plaguing him. That may be the case this year as well. BUT, a healthy Chipper gives us the best #3 hitter for the time being. He still puts fear in the heart of opposing pitchers and managers. That is evident with the way they pitch around him when he plays. He is still a danger to go deep every time he is in the lineup. I agree that JHey is our future #3 hitter, but he is still 21. He is still growing. He has yet to prove he can produce any better than a healthy Chip. If you want to argue numbers, Jhey’s went way down after his injury last year. He was a shadow of what he was in the first half. No different with Chip. If he doesn’t show up this year, I really believe Fredi will move him. Heck he may move himself. Only time will tell.
The biggest beef I have with your comments is how degrading you are to Chip and what he has done. You come off as a what are you doing for me now. I agree that fans and a team shouldn’t hang to visions of grandeur but Chip deserves some benefit of the doubt. Im not convinced he can’t produce. Will he produce as he did during his peak? Very doubtful. But will he produce as a legitimate #3 hitter for the Braves who do not currently roster a top teir #3 hitter? Yes he can.
Bat Masterson
March 29th, 2011
6:38 pm
Bat Masterson……..The book remains to be written on whether Francoeur will be able to recoup the money he missed out on when he refused to sign the contract the Braves offered him.
Sure, McCann got the financial security. I’m not dogging that. I’m saying that by doing that, he ended up costing himself at least 10 million dollars. _ Foghorn
The book has been written on Francoeur, the title is How does this guy still have a job, one of the worlds great mysteries.
From 2007 to 2010…Brian McCann made $11.3 mil (including $1 mil signing bonus in 2007. During the same 4 years…Jeff Francoeur made $9.25 mil. _ Foghorn
If Franceour has a good year, or even an okay one, and his option is picked up, he will have made 14.2 million, if not 12.75 million. Of course he wold not have made that except for the Mets stupidity. Heap will have made 28 to 30 million, and over 40 million if his option is picked up for 2013. How can you say Heap cost himself 10 million, he may have given up half that, part of the deal for security. A no brainer if there ever was one.
Dirty
March 29th, 2011
6:38 pm
Guys you can discredit anything Foghorn Leghorn said right after the point of saying he would have to forgo the remaining Salary on his Contract.. He would still get paid the money on his contract as NBA and MLB contracts are Guaranteed (except for incentives). If this were the NFL he would be correct.. He has shown how much he knows about this topic with a couple of Incentives.. He who yells the loudest usually knows the least… he is actually trying to convince himself of his drivel along with everyone else
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
6:39 pm
jacob…..I have not been critical of the contribution that Chipper Jones made to the Braves. I enjoyed watching him play over the years.
What I have, and will continue to be critical of….is what The Dipper has done the past 2 years. He’s been injury prone, and hit for very little power.
You say that you’re not convinced that he cant produce? Well, I’m convinced that he wont contribute…at least not in a manner that a #3 hitter should.
Jason Heyward played through his injured thumb last season. He does not have a history of injuries. He showed with his immense skills (his speed, his ability to score from 1st on a double) that he is tailor made to hit in the #3 spot of the order. Keeping Heyward in the #6 slot of the order makes about as much sense as keeping keeping Steve Young as a back-up..when it was apparent that Joe Montana’s time had passed.
Dirty
March 29th, 2011
6:42 pm
How can Heyward have a history of Injuries? He was a rookie last year and missed a lot of games .. if that happens again this year then you can call him injury prone and if it doesn’t then you can say he is not… Hard to build a history on one season…
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
6:52 pm
Dirty……Jason Heyward didnt start playing professional baseball in 2010.. He played 3 years of Minor League baseball. His skills were proven last year. He battled through an injured thumb last season and still put up good numbers.
The Dipper cant play everyday. If he plays 100 games, I’d be surprised. He’s 39 years old, snapperhead! He’s been injured the past 2 seasons. He’s struggled both defensively and offensively the past 2 years when he did play.
I challenge you to name any 39 year old players in the past who put up a “good season” after having two injury filled, unproductive seasons at 37 and 38 years old.
billmaier
March 29th, 2011
6:54 pm
foghorn so at least will agree on something–bobby. But we may also misunderstand the difference between loyalty and faith– i was loyal to bobby, even though i had no faith in his ability to mange- since he was our manger- i hoped and wished the best– but had no faith in his decions at all — same as boobys favorite i was loyal to melky hoped he did well, but had no faith he would– greg norton, jeff bennett etc—where we have a problem is that you seem to not only have no loyolty to chipper by ragging on him– at least and hope the best– do you have someone else that can play third for us and hit over 270– if i putting money on it for real- im saying 270 but believe and have faith he will hit at least 300– have 20 hrs drive in 70 to 80 runs– at least im willing to back up my statments with money something your not willing to do- im serious-becauseway you make it sound chipper wont hit above the mendoza line, and hurt the team– i have faith in freddi that i did not have in bobby if chipper does not produce in the 3 hole he will be moved down—- i am loyal to the team and players not matter what i have faith in chipper i don not have faith in george sherrill you seem to have no loyalty- wishing the best for chipper every time he comes to the plate and hoping the best
billmaier
March 29th, 2011
6:57 pm
foghorn– and i believe you forget last year that chippers bat was coming around before the injury– i dont have the figures but he was hitting over 300 in his last so many games before the injury and the bat was coming around- i have faith that and the spring training willcarry over into the season.
Dirty
March 29th, 2011
7:01 pm
Foghorn… I am not going to argue with a know-it-all blabbermouth like you… MLB contacts are guaranteed and that is a fact Jack…. Trust me I know my facts… You know nothing of me or where I have worked and nothing of my background… He could just as easily collect his $28 million at home… Only time money is not Guaranteed if there is a mutual option clause in the contract where both parties agree to either pick up the option year(s) or turn them down… Management or player can void them.. Chipper does not have that that clause.. that is only given to FA or Aging Vets who sign one year contracts with options.. Glavine had one for a 6th year with the Mets but 5 was guaranteed.. that is why he left the Braves because they would only give him 4 years guaranteed with a 5th year Incentive option. if he met certain Incentives the Option year would Auto pick up and if not then both parties had to agree to the option year at the designated salary… Chipper does not have those clauses… Now go ahead and argue with yourself and the others who foolishly argue with you on your inane statements
Here is his contract … 3 years Guaranteed with a 4th year Vesting option… Now go argue with your self in the mirror
KISSIMMEE, Fla. — Chipper Jones already had a World Series ring and an MVP trophy. What he wanted was the chance to finish up in the place where he started.
Jones
Jones
The Atlanta Braves were more than glad to give it to him.
The NL batting champion and the Braves agreed Tuesday to a $42 million, three-year contract extension though 2012, a deal that could ensure Jones becomes one of those rare stars who plays his entire career in one uniform.
There’s an option that could make the extension worth up to $61 million over four seasons.
Due $10 million this season in the option year of a contract that began in 2006, Jones gets a $3 million signing bonus as part of the new deal, payable in $1 million installments each Jan. 15 starting next year.
Jones receives annual salaries of $13 million from 2010-12 and can earn $1.5 million a year in performance bonuses: $750,000 each for 135 and 140 games.
His contract contains a $9 million option for 2013 that would become guaranteed if he plays in 123 games in 2012 or averages 127 games in 2011-12. The option price could increase by up to $4 million: $1 million each for 128, 133, 138 and 140 games in 2012 (or averages of 132, 137, 138 and 140 in 2011-12). In addition, he could earn $1.5 million in performance bonuses based on the earlier criteria.
If the vesting option fails to become guaranteed, the club would hold a $7 million option.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4029831
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:01 pm
billmaier….oh, I’ll hope that The Dipper will play like the player formerly known as Chipper Jones. I would love to see The Dipper revert back to Chipper Jones and win the MVP. Reason being, I want to see the Braves WIN, PERIOD!
I would gladly admit that I’m wrong because my desire to see the Braves win…overrides my desire to be right.
With that said, I see very little chance that I’m going to be wrong. I take no pleasure in saying that because I feel that if I’m proven right..it will hurt the Braves chances on winning enough games to make the play-offs.
Loyalty should never be blind. Loyalty should be earned….and maintained if one is still being productive today.
How many you would remain loyal to your wife….if she gave you 10 good years of faithful marriage….only to proceed to give you 5 years where she was unfaithful and a bad wife? How many of you would stay, “you know, she was good to me before. I have faith that the wife I knew those 10 years will come back to me”, lol?
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:07 pm
Dirty……you keep bring up irrelevant points. If The Dipper were to retire…he would be forfeiting the remaining $28 mil on his contract. That was the talk of contention when he said that he wouldnt stick around if he couldnt play up to his standards after his injury in 2009. He said it again after the 2010 season.
You might want to look up your facts PAL. If he were to retire, the Braves would be off the hook for the remaining $28 mil, meaning that the Braves could use the money that was going to be paid him…to acquire a player who will actually help us offensively.
However, this point is moot because The Dipper is not going to retire before the end of 2012…no matter how badly he struggles. Yet many of you believe that he would be a “man of his word” and give him props for saying this BS.
jacob
March 29th, 2011
7:09 pm
I meant you are basically disregarding what he has done for the franchise and coming off as a what have you done for me lately person. Im sure part of your sarcasm is based off your disgust for fans that just blindly see the name Chipper and think he’s the greatest there is no matter what he does on the field, but the fact is, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Say what you want, but he has been and still is our best option in the 3 hole. He still demands a ton of respect at the plate. More than JHey at the moment. JHey may end up being our best option at some point in the year, but he’s not now. Yeah he played through injuries, but he didn’t do it very effectively. No different than Chip when he’s dealing with injuries. If Chip hits 20-25 HR’s which he will if he plays 130 games, he is a bigger threat than Jhey purely from his pedigree. I dont see JHey putting up more than 25 this year. Until he has a least a year of #3 production, he is not our best option there.
billmaier
March 29th, 2011
7:12 pm
foghorn i dont believe i ever said that chipper will have an mvp year but that he will be productive, i refuse to rag on him and toe the line toward being disrespectful like you–chipper is giving his all he probably work harder this offseason than any before more than i can say for melky last year. and i think you misjudge chipper if at any time he feels that he is hurting the team and keeeping us from making the playoffs he will retire– i believe he was seriously thinking about ti last year before the bat starting comin around before the injury– stats don’t lie- he was hitting well– have some respect—if his year is as bad as you makle it out to be h’ll retire if he belives it will help our chances– but right now it is just the opposite– who plays third hicks lucas conrad mather if he makes it through waivers?????????????????????????
David O'Brien
March 29th, 2011
7:14 pm
How many you would remain loyal to your wife….if she gave you 10 good years of faithful marriage….only to proceed to give you 5 years where she was unfaithful and a bad wife? How many of you would stay, “you know, she was good to me before. I have faith that the wife I knew those 10 years will come back to me”, lol? – Foghorn Leghorn
Just curious, were you actually laughing out loud at this? You typed it and thought, now THAT is a funny analogy. And laughed out loud?
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:15 pm
By the way, I noticed that David O’Brainless One failed to ask The Dipper any questions concerning following through on his “I’ll retire if I struggle to play at a high level” proclamations if he indeed were to struggle in 2011.
This kind of reporting could never survive in a real sports down with knowledgeable sports fans who want to see their team WIN over anything else. I feel that is a big part of why the city of Atlanta has only won 1 championship, in any professional sport. The lack of accountability of the “good old boy” Atlanta sporting press is more concerned with rubbing shoulders with and writing fluff pieces on players and management….more concerned with eating free food and getting invites to luncheons and awards banquets..than they are with being critical of and holding accountable with bad decision making by management or mistakes made by players on the field.
The fans of the Atlanta area are partly to blame, because they fall for this constant BS. Woody Harrleson told Wesley Snipes in ‘White Men Cant Jump’ that, “you’d rather look good and LOSE, than look bad and WIN”.
Many of you would rather feel good by seeing your “heroes” play and see the team LOSE…then feel bad that you cant see your “heroes” play, yet have the team WIN by playing players you cant “identify” with.
Dirty
March 29th, 2011
7:17 pm
My last comment on this… Chipper would not forfeit the money… You don’t have to believe me but if I were you I would.. I know exactly what I am talking about…
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:18 pm
Jacob…….if you believe that The Dipper is going to play in 130 games this year and hit 25 homers…then you must also believe in The Tooth Fairy.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:22 pm
billmaier….dude, The Dipper was not hitting well last year. His “hot streak” consisted of hitting .300 (I thought that .300 was “the norm” for a player of what used to be Chipper Jones’ caliber) with at best, average power (again, how is average power considered “a hot streak” for someone of his “caliber?).
His defense is pretty lacking. He cant stay healthy. His “hot streak” only lifted his average to .276. He only hit 10 homers in 2010. HELLO!
I base my evaluation on the fact that he has had two UNPRODUCTIVE and INJURY FILLED seasons in a row….as well as the fact that he will be 39 in April. I’m right, you’re dreaming.
Kat
March 29th, 2011
7:23 pm
Thanks for the Q&A (both parts), great questions.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:25 pm
David O’Talentless One……I laughed out loud after posting the “being loyal to your wife” post….about as loud as I laugh after reading one after one of your “fluff” pieces on The Dipper or Booby Cox.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:25 pm
Enter your comments here
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:27 pm
Dirty…….once again. If a player were to retire because he felt that he couldnt play up to a level he felt he used to play at…he would be forfeiting his remaining salary. The only way he could keep his money and retire..is if he suffered a career ending injury.
billmaier
March 29th, 2011
7:27 pm
your wives loyalty and your loyalty to her have nothing to do with baseball what so ever a lyal fan is loyal to his team and the players on it no matter what the income- wife is somehting completely different- makes no sense at all just as your ragging on an atlanta brave- makes no sense at all
billmaier
March 29th, 2011
7:28 pm
mis print outcome- sorry
billmaier
March 29th, 2011
7:29 pm
wow the logic here is getting real confusing- so chipper hitting 300 is not good enough??????????????????????
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:34 pm
billmaier……hitting .300 during a 20 game streak is not that great….especially when in the other games, you hit in the low .220’s with little power.
Sure, The Dipper was hitting “better” before suffering the season ending injury. However, it only “lifted” his average to .265…and he only hit 10 homers in 95 games in 2010. Not what you want to see from a #3 hitter.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:38 pm
I just turned on the Braves-Twins game on the tube. Brian McCann must have dropped about 30 pounds in the off season.
Hopefully the loss of weight will result in him getting off what used to be his fat A## and blocking some balls that would routinely go past him.
I’m actually a McCann fan (meaning I’m a fan of how well he hits, for both power and average). While I would like to see him play better defense…I can live with his errors as long as he rakes at the plate. Unlike The Dipper…whose offense does not make up for the fact that he cant play good defense.
predsjack
March 29th, 2011
7:40 pm
foghorn leghorn, in my best Walter impersonation…Shut The hell Up!
William in Pasadena
March 29th, 2011
7:43 pm
Guys, I have to agree with Foghorn about Chipper. First of all, I DO hope he has an MVP year. But, based on the past 2 years, he should not bat 3rd. The problem with most Braves fans is they continue to live on the past and continue to support the “settle for, laid back attitude” that was perpetuated by Bobby Cox and Chipper. Singles and walks are not what we should get from a 3-hitter. Oh, it pads the OBP, but doesn’t drive in runs. How long are you guys gonna continue to live on hope and “if Chipper doen’t get hurt” crap.If memory serves me correctly, the Florida Marlins have won as many or more World Series than we have. Yet, they don’t hold onto players like we do. I guess Chipper is the only thing some of you have to hold onto, continuously hoping. Come October, let’s see if we will be frustrated again. Or will we lose 2-1 ballgames while Chipper sits on the bench injured?
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:51 pm
William in Pasadena………Damn dude, you really hit your 7:43pm post OUT OF THE FREAKING BALL PARK, LOL!
With that said, your dead on post will fall on deaf ears….if anything, it’s going to enrage many of the so-called Braves fans. They have an insatiable need to live in the past, to live on false “hope”.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
7:56 pm
William in Pasadena………I love your “singles and walks are not what we should settle for from a #3 hitter” line.
Then again, David O’Brainless One kept pointing out that Greg “The only way I can get on base is if the pitcher forgets to throw strikes” Norton drew a lot of walks pinch hitting in 2009. I was like “HELLO, MCFLY….ANYONE HOME”?
The job of a pinch hitter, ESPECIALLY the number one pinch hitter off your bench, is to knock in some freaking runs. After all , isnt he called a pinch-HITTER…not pinch-walker?
And the job of the #3 hitter in the line-up is to put up MUCH BETTER NUMBERS than .265 with 10 homers and 41 RBIs over 95 games (which is what The Dipper put up in 2010).
Douche Bag
March 29th, 2011
8:02 pm
I want to be a Foghorn Leghorn.
Pete*
March 29th, 2011
8:04 pm
Dirty: “My last comment on this… Chipper would not forfeit the money… You don’t have to believe me but if I were you I would.. I know exactly what I am talking about…”
Was gonna try and stay away from this brawl lol BUT…if I read you correctly, you are most certainly wrong. When a player officially retires for whatever reason (and I believe thats what your referring to), the team is no longer obligated to pay the remaining contract. From what youre saying, Ryan Howard could retire after this year and still collect $125M over the next 5 years? Doesnt work that way.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:07 pm
Pete…..if I had said what the Dirty poster said…this blog would have been lit up with how wrong I am, lol.
I know, it must be painful to have to agree with me. However, at least you were man enough to fight through the pain and correct him, lol.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:13 pm
//Dirty…if The Dipper were to retire….he would be giving up his salary.
You need to check your facts, snapperhead.
However, my contention all along has been that The Dipper will not retire before the end of the 2012 season, no matter how badly he plays. Only if the Braves were to release him, would he retire if no one wanted to sign him. The Dipper is not going to give up $28 mil.
The reason I keep bringing this up is that many of you feel for “hook, line and sinker” lie that The Dipper said about “retiring if he cant play up to the level he’s accustomed to playing”. He said this BS before the 2010 season….as well as repeated it when he was making his rehab this off season.
I’d be willing to bet that after he hurts himself and goes on the DL again sometime this year….he will make another BS proclamation after the 2011 season that he will make “one more run” at it in 2012..and that if he cant play up to “his standards”, he will retire.
You guys just keep lapping it up, lol. Keep buying the snake oil…keep stuffing the coffers of the traveling tent preachers that the south is known for falling for…..keep voting against your own economic self interests and making rich the very people who, when it comes down to it…dont care about you at all.
Pete*
March 29th, 2011
8:16 pm
Wasnt painful at all to point out the correct facts on an issue. I may not like your and other’s delivery (name calling etc) but you do make valid points. Much of last year I posted that CJ is not a #3 hitter (at least not last year), but that there was no way Cox would move him from #3. I also believe that if CJ starts off like he did last year, Fredi will move him from #3 at some point. Should be a fun and interesting year.
William in Pasadena
March 29th, 2011
8:17 pm
Foghorn, I think you are correct. Come people live too long in the past. Chipper wes great in the past. Chipper was well-paid for what he did in the past. Now, Chipper is overpaid for what he is doing in the present. Based on what some of these guys are saying, we should still have Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz on the team. This kind of “loyalty” is why the Braves have only 1 WS ring. This kind of stupidity is why athletes are the way they are. They have an MVP season, than hold out if their contract is not renegotiated. What happens when they have a lousy seasn? Do they want to renegotiate then? To criticize Chipper is not disloyalty. He was paid very well, even the times he missed the whole season. Also, I said last year that the AJC writers don’t ask tough questions. These little soft questions make you want to throw up. I’m sorry, I would say regurgitate, but that’s hard to do when you are throwing up. We need real, hard nosed ballplayers, not injury prone ones that are laid back and have no fire. The Braves will always win the sportsmanship award while other teams celebrate the last game of the season on the Braves field. Aren’t you guys sick of watching that? I’m waiting to see what Fredi does. I was glad to see that he kept the young guys over reclamation projects and washed-up pitchers. That’s an improvement over Bobby right there.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:21 pm
Pete……While I would hope that Fredo would move The Dipper down in the order if (when) he struggles during the year hitting 3rd……I have doubts as to whether he will. I hope that he will prove me wrong.
Pete*
March 29th, 2011
8:25 pm
In my humble opinion, Cox stayed 1-2 years too long. But hes gone now, and I do believe Fredi will move CJ down IF he struggles for a reasonable period of time. We shall see.
jacob
March 29th, 2011
8:28 pm
Foghorn – I have more reason to believe he’ll play 130 and hit 20-25 as you do to say he wont. 2 years ago was the first time in his career that he hasn’t hit 20. He’s averaged about 125-130 games for the past 6 years. It’s not living in the past to know that he’s still capable of putting up 20-25 HR, .280-.300 avg and 85-100 RBIs in 130 games. You’re taking a year and half of stats, which were injury plagued, and claiming them to be the only stats he’s capable of producing. Your’re taking an anomaly in his career and making them an absolute rule. Yeah, hes 39 and it’s possible he’s digressed to that. Halfway through last year I would have tended to agree, but the last couple of weeks before he got hurt last year, when he was healthy, he was hitting like the old Chip. And he’s doing thus far in spring training. Yep, it’s spring training. Duly noted. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be a precursor to what the player is capable of otherwise players wouldn’t make or lose their jobs based off spring training results. He’s not getting lucky with his bat. He’s hitting BB’s.
You all talk about how avg and singles not being a #3 hitter and I agree, but you fail to mention that we have NO ONE ELSE who has proven they can put up top tier #3 numbers. Uggla will hit a ton of homers but last year was the first decent average year he has had. He would be a more legit #3 argument than Heyward right now. Dont argue to me minor league numbers. That’s more of a futile argument than spring training numbers. Im not going to give Heyward the #3 spot over Chip because of half a year in his rookie year when pitchers were still adjusting to him and Fredi obviously thinks about it that way too. Fredi wouldn’t have Chip there right now if he didn’t feel he was the best option. If during the season Chip shows that the last year and half is all he has to offer any more, then Ill be calling for him to drop as loud as the rest, but right now he’s our best option at the 3 spot.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:29 pm
Pete….I hope you are right about Fredo. If you are, I’ll start calling him Fredi.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:32 pm
jacob…while I still disagree with your 8:28pm post, you do make a decent compelling argument (unlike many others on this blog) when stating your case.
I hope that you are right. You being right (and me being wrong) would probably result in the Braves doing some serious winning in 2011 (which is what I want more than anything).
bravesgrl4life
March 29th, 2011
8:46 pm
I think FL is the son of PL (he who’s name shall not be mentioned). He is just as big of a detractor and irritant.
William in Pasadena
March 29th, 2011
8:47 pm
Jacob, I partly agree with you. Except, didn’t Chipper miss his entire first year due to a broken leg? So the past year and a half was not an anomaly. He’s been an injury waiting to happen most of his career. He needs that insurance. You know, the one in case you get hurt and have to miss work, it won’t hurt to miss work (AFLAC!) And, how do you know we don’t have anyone else for the 3-hole. We refuse to try anyone else due to loyalty crap. I’ll bet 50 cents JHey would put up at least the numbers Chipper had last year. And he probably woud steal a base or two, and score from 1st base on a long single!
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:53 pm
bravesgrl4life……and you are just as blind and gullible as most of your fellow so-called Braves fans are on here.
Get back me at the All-Star break and compare The Dipper’s numbers (especially power numbers) to other #3 hitters on winning baseball teams.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
8:54 pm
William in Pasadena….keep on with the hits my friend. These guys on here cant comprehend what you are sayin, lol! They just cant!
robdawg08
March 29th, 2011
9:21 pm
My favorite player of all-time. Thanks for all the great memories Chipper ! I hope you can put up the .300 30 100 we got so used to getting from you. You are a first ballot HOFer ! You and Eddie Murray are the greatest switch hitters ever to play the game. And Eddie’s in the HOF.
Pete*
March 29th, 2011
9:25 pm
Robdawg, ever hear of Mickey Mantle?
tman
March 29th, 2011
9:35 pm
Foghorn Leghorn…What is your actual profession? It appears you missed your calling if you aren’t a professional sports writer or very high up the food chain in management for an MLB team.
tman
March 29th, 2011
9:35 pm
Foghorn Leghorn…What is your actual profession? It appears you missed your calling if you aren’t a professional sports writer or very high up the food chain in management for an MLB team.
bravesgrl4life
March 29th, 2011
9:41 pm
F-L, I am not the least bit gullible. I hope Chipper shoves your egotistical, idiotic, hatin’ words down your throat, loser.
bravesgrl4life
March 29th, 2011
9:41 pm
Figuratively speaking, of course. Chipper wouldn’t resort to violence for someone so insignificant.
robdawg08
March 29th, 2011
9:52 pm
Foghorn is about 150 other different bloggers here Bravesgirl. Don’t let shim get under your skin.
Didn’t Mickey Mantle play for the Boston Red Sox ?
DC Brave
March 29th, 2011
10:32 pm
Go Braves! and Go Chipper….the greatest Atlanta Brave of them all. Respect to Murph and Hank, but Chipper was on the 95 team and a part of the 14 straight.
This is going to be a great season.
So on the other blog…interesting comment about Cal Ripken from “headl” at 1:55. Very interesting.
ColoradoBravesFan
March 29th, 2011
11:21 pm
William in Pasadena… The Marlins would be happy to have you as a fan. If you really think that is the way to run an MLB team. Go pull for them or the Yankees.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 29th, 2011
11:59 pm
bravesgrl4life……..So you want The Dipper to “shove my egotistical, idiotic, hatin’ words down my throat”?
What are you going to say if he doesnt? Are you going to eat crow and admit that my “hatin’ words” were in fact prophecy fulfilled?
Knowing how much critical thinking makes your ADD surface…..I wont count on you to do that, lol.
I’ll just have to live with the satisfaction that i’m right (meaning that the Braves chances of winning will suffer). To be honest, I hope that The Dipper does come out and win the MVP. As I said before, I want to see the Braves win. I just dont see it happening…because when you see a team insert a shell of his former self in the #3 slot of the batting order…..your chances of winning will be less.
I bet you was one of those who cried when Tommy Hanson was called up in June of 2009, which “forced” Tom Glavine to retire. Or better yet…you probably ripped Braves management for not paying John Smoltz $10 mil to re-sign with the Braves in the winter of 2009.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
12:07 am
ColoradoBravesFan…….William in Pasadena wants to see the Braves win championships. Isnt that the goal of every fan…to see their team win championships? The Fish have won 2 World Series. William wasnt saying that he wanted to be a Marlins fan. He was saying that their approach to winning (especially when they have a championship caliber team) has worked in the past.
So you think William should become a Marlins fan because he questions the decisions that those who run the Braves sometimes make? Well I think that you should become a fan of another team….because you root for the individual player over the interest of the team. What, are you a fan of The Dipper first and foremost….or do the Braves team come first to you?
For those of us who want to see the Braves WIN…..we want to see the best players play in positions, both on the field and in the batting order….that will give the Braves the best chance to win. I could care less about having some misplaced nostalgia that is obsessively attached to someone who is WAY PAST THEIR PRIME!
Tim
March 30th, 2011
12:08 am
What a sad, sad life you have Foghorn. Good luck with all…………that.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
12:12 am
I must say it is painful to watch Harold Reynolds and Mitch Williams on the MLB channel. The Braves preview show on the MLB channel is a joke because these two clowns wouldnt know an original opinion if it smacked them in the face.
Perhaps they were mentored by David O’Talentless One, lol!
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
12:16 am
Tim…actually I like my life, lol. I’ve purchased another season of the MLB package on Direct TV. I’m geared up for another season on baseball.
Despite my qualms about The Dipper batting 3rd….I am pretty optimistic about the rest of the line-up and team (well, with the exception of our overall defense). However, we showed last year that we could make the play-offs DESPITE not being able to field the ball…..as well as having little production from The Dipper.
So knowing that, I’ll hold out some hope that Fredo will eventually grow a pair and eventually drop The Dipper to the #6 spot in the order.
But other than that, we’re looking good. We’re healthy and seem to have a set line-up. I feel that we can compete with the Phillies for the division title.
jacob
March 30th, 2011
12:24 am
William – First, the anomaly I was referring to was not the injuries, it was his ability to produce.
Second, a broken leg as a rookie is a freak accident and doesn’t at all mean you are an injury waiting to happen. Nine of his first 10 years he played over 150 games, and the 10th was his first full season where he only played 140. He’s an injury waiting to happen now, but his career wasn’t an injury waiting to happen any more than Pujols or Maddux. Since you mentioned JHey, went on the DL his rookie year as well and played with an injury the whole second half. And what about now? He’s dealing with back issues. I dont think it serious, but he’s more injury prone than Chipper was for his first 10-13 years.
Third, my argument for Chip at the 3 hole has very little to do with loyalty. I love the guy as a player, but when you start hurting the team it’s time to realize you’ve reached your end. Im just not convinced by a year and a half of poor production that he wont produce. Your guarantee about JHey has more conjecture than my belief in Chip. Chip has proven it while JHey has yet to prove it. Along with the fact that JHey is still 21 and maturing offensively. No matter how big he is or how hard he hits the ball in BP, he still hasn’t garnered the fear and respect from the other team that Chip has and that is one of the most important qualities of a #3 hitter. I guarantee you that teams feel they have a better chance of getting Heyward out on an at-bat by at-bat basis than they do Chip. Come mid season, it may not be the case but for now it is. FOR NOW Chip is our best option at the 3 hole and the way he is capable of swinging the bat, I like our chances.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
12:34 am
jacob…….Well, we will start finding out who is right starting Thursday afternoon. We’ll have an opportunity on a daily basis to dissect whether you or I am right. In about a month, we’ll have an idea of what’s going to happen.
jacob
March 30th, 2011
12:55 am
A month wont show who is right or wrong Foghorn. IF in a month or two Chip is hitting like he has the past year and a half, then he wont be the right guy for the #3 spot THEN. For NOW though he is.
jacob
March 30th, 2011
1:05 am
Also, while it has been painful to see the Braves make the playoffs year and year out and only win 1 World Series, Ill take 14 straight division titles, 15 playoff appearances, 5 NLCSs, and a legitimate hope to win a World Series nearly every year we take the field. Ill take that over 2 random World Series titles and abysmal seasons the rest of the time. One World Series is more than 19 other MLB teams can say over the past 2 decades. We can thank Bobby for most of that. I love our organization. I love how have developed our farm system to be one of the best in the MLB and how we can expect studs to emerge from it nearly every year. I love how we are one of the most well respected organizations in the MLB. I love how our players love to play for it. I love that many other players around the league have nothing but good things to say about our organization and how many of them would love to play for us. I love what our organization represents. And I said, I love how nearly every year we step on to the field and can legitimately expect to at least make the playoffs and have a shot at the World Series. You like hard nosed players? Bobby did too and that’s who he fought for. You dont want injury prone players? What’s an injury prone player to you? Is it Prado getting hurt twice last year, ending the year on the DL? Is it Jhey’s injuries last year and his current problems? Is it Huddy’s Tommy John surgery? Is it McCann’s eye problems? Is it JJ and Medlen’s injuries? Should we get rid of them and start over with players who have no history with injuries? Good luck
Chipper Q&A, Pt. 2: Of fans, family, retirement, Hall of Fame, and more | Raw Sports - Atlanta Braves
March 30th, 2011
1:28 am
[...] Atlanta Braves [...]
Mike in Canton
March 30th, 2011
1:47 am
Geez, someone needs to wash the sand out….
Foghorn, should Chipper still be in the 3 spot? Probably not, but is he still productive? You bet. Look at the rosters over every team and you’ll see starters somewhere on every team that typically has .260-.270 averages, with 15-20 HR, 70-80 RBI. Now how many of those guys with those numbers have close to a .400 OBP? How many of those guys have more BB than SO? Truth is, not many. Sure, there are better third baggers in the league now (i.e. Alex Rodriguez, David Wright, Ryan Zimmerman come to mind), but how many 3B in the NL are worse statistically? Would you rather have Ty Wigginton (116 SO in 2010) or Aramis Ramirez (.294 OBP in 2010)? How about Andy Marte back in a Braves uni? Is Chipper worth $14 million dollars on the Free Agent market? Probably not, but would it surprise you if he was offered $8-9 million for a year of service by another team? No. His current contract was written in 2006 and extended in 2009. He’s deferred money in his past contracts. He’s earned the money he’s making by what he did in the past and what he can still do and what the club thinks he is capable of doing. Don’t you think if in 2009 there were a more feasible option out on the market for Frank Wren, he’d tell Chipper that he would extend him, but at a lesser value? Don’t you think if the GM thought he was just wasting money, he’d try to negotiate something or trade Chipper to lessen the burden on the teams self-imposed spending limit? Don’t you think its time to stop complaining about the same damn thing every 5 minutes?
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
2:12 am
jacob……well said 1:05am post. All of what you said are admirable traits for a franchise to have.
However, does that mean that we have to settle for bad decision making by a manager who not only wait until too late to bench a player who was struggling…but also how to use pinch hitters, pinch run, replace a bad defensive player in the field late in a game. There was a game against the Mets after the All-Star Break on a Saturday afternoon were Booby ran through his whole bench in a matter of one inning (he used David Ross as a pinch runner in the 7th inning, lol).
Also, who could forget Booby benching Matt Diaz against the Cubs right before the All-Star Break in 2009 so he could give his boy Francoeur some at-bats to “get him going”…despite Diaz raking at the play in a 13 for 24 streak. On top of that, he used as a “pinch bunter” in the 6th inning of that game. A guy is raking 13 for 24…and not only do you bench him…you waste using him as a pinch bunter?
It’s amazing that many of you continue to have a blind eye when it comes to stuff like that.
It also does not justify a manager not taking the time to teach his players how to run the bases properly or hit the cut off man properly. We have lost important games over the years because our base runners ran themselves out of innings……because we couldnt play decent fundamental defense.
I think that one reason why players loved playing for Booby was because once they were considered one of “Booby’s boys”…they didnt have to worry about being held accountable or losing their job. They could just continue swinging at slop, making critical errors and running themselves out of innings.
The Braves had enough pitching to overcome Booby’s inefficiencies when it came to managing a game in the regular season. However, come play-off time…..you need a manager to have properly taught his players how to play the game. EVERY MISTAKE is magnified in a 7 game series.
I am still baffled (although not surprised) that Booby took out Kimbrell in the 9th inning of Game three of the NLDS last year against the Giants. It wasnt Kimbrell’s fault that the Giants were threatening to score. The Giants had a hard time getting around on his fastball. To bring in Mike Dunn (whose stuff wasnt nearly as good as Kimbrell’s) was inexcusable.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
2:26 am
..Mike in Canton…..I’m not advocating for The Dipper to be traded (no team is that stupid) or relaesed (the Braves dont wont even release Kawacrrappy).
But since we are stuck with The Dipper for the next two years…..then why not use him as effectively as we can…while limiting the potential damage that The Dipper can do?
That’s why I feel that he’s better suited as a #6 hitter. Depending on a broken down, 39 year old former shell of a ball player to lead the offense in the critical #3 spot of the order…..does not bode well for our chances to win.
Mike in Canton
March 30th, 2011
2:32 am
Foghorn
I agree that Bobby was not the greatest manager ever. He was good but he surrounded himself with great coaches. There were plenty of times that I questioned him taking someone out or leaving someone in. But it does happen… with every team and every manager. No one is perfect, but as the Braves turned the corner in 1990-1991, he was probably just the guy they needed. The time came (and as some people would argue, and went years ago) and now we have a guy who probably isn’t going to be too much different, but just enough to push this team to where we all know they should or should have been in recent years.
I think Fredi hit the nail on the head in an interview recently with DOB about losing your ability if you don’t practice it over and over again. Just because you’re in the majors doesn’t mean you can just stop taking ground balls or practicing where you’re going to throw the ball in certain situations. And for that, I give a thumbs up to Fredi for having the “boys” to do it.
Mike in Canton
March 30th, 2011
2:45 am
I don’t think Chipper could really be effective batting sixth either. He has some pop left, but not enough as protection down in the lineup. Your 3-6 hitters should be feared to drive in mass numbers of runs. I actually think Chipper would be more effective in the 2 hole or even seventh if not for Alex Gonzalez.
Batting Chipper sixth wouldn’t be a bad idea if you had a better hitter at number seven… say Freddie Freeman. But I like him either higher up or further down in the lineup. For instance, its the sixth inning and Chipper leads off (at 7th in the lineup) and draws a walk. Now he’s at first with FF at the plate. FF (with better discipline and plate vision than AG) now squares up on a ball and hits a solid single moving Chipper to second. Runners at first and second, no outs and the pitcher’s spot is up. Bunt them over or pinch hit (depending on the situation and hope for at least a sac fly and possibly a base hit). Now you hopefully have at least runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out and Prado at the plate.
Or if you bat Chipper second, you can start the game off hopefully with a single or double from Prado with Chipper up. He can give you a base hit (or sac fly at the very least) and have Heyward on deck.
Better than batting Chipper sixth with no protection behind him in A-Gon.
ben
March 30th, 2011
3:31 am
foghorn…you are a queer. chipper had an awesome spring, showed power, and run production.
timthebrave
March 30th, 2011
9:02 am
People like Foghorn have no idea what they are talking about. I guess they would rather see Prado at 3rd and Mcclouth and Schafer in the outfield. Liberty Media just paid their CEO more than the whole Braves roster makes. I’m glad you are worried about their money when they only worry about getting ours but the Braves are a better team with Chipper in the lineup and I could care less how much they pay him or in what order he should be hitting.
Versiroth
March 30th, 2011
9:03 am
Wow Foghorn Leghorn…. you’ve officially ruined this blog with your constant barage of crap posts. Good Job…
The fact is, Chipper IS playing this year and he IS hitting 3rd. And so far this spring, so good. The best thing we can do as fans is root him on and hope he keeps it up. If he’s hitting 220 with no homeruns after a few weeks, THEN come on the blog and rant and rave all you want. But, for now, the things are the way they are. As fans, we just need to hope it all works out. This also drove me batty with Nate McLouth. People were hating on him this spring even when he was hitting like a fend. Especially when they found out he’s hit 2nd in the order.
The fact is, McLouth is going to hit 2nd and Chipper 3rd. They’ve both played well and EARNED this in the spring. Why not.. you know… wait until they fail before coming on the blog and ruining it for the rest of the posters?
EB
March 30th, 2011
10:43 am
Thank you Versiroth! Well said. People will ALWAYS find something to complain about, but you are right. Facts are facts. Get over it people!!
jacob
March 30th, 2011
11:36 am
I also agree that Bobby had his flaws. He made a ton of questionable calls that, as you pointed out, hurt us in the playoffs. He was out managed several times in the playoffs and it probably cost us a World Series or two. Could someone else have done a better job given the talent he had? Most likely. Very few though in my opinion. As was stated already, he was the right man for the job when he got it. He at least put us in the position to be a top organization year in and year out.
TB
March 30th, 2011
12:28 pm
The last time Chipper came back from this kind of knee surgery, the Braves won the won the World Series!
Voice of reason and truth
March 30th, 2011
3:22 pm
Chipper is a HOF lock.
It is hard to find out exactly where he ranks all time among third basemen. The best is Mike Schimdt, and I would probably put Eddie Matthews behind him.
That leaves Chipper, Brett, and Boggs as the top tier third basement. (I count A-Rod as a shortstop). Those three could rate in any order.
Thoughts?
Ghost
March 30th, 2011
4:39 pm
Foghorn you know nothing about baseball.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
5:02 pm
This is a Braves blog for Braves fans. My definition of a Braves fan is one who wants to see the Braves WIN!
What I see on here is a blog filled with fans of The Dipper. If fans had to make an absolute choice between 1. The Dipper having a good year..while the Braves were losing..OR….2. The Dipper having a bad year…while the Braves were winning…….I’d be willing to bet the farm that fans of The Dipper would overwhelmingly pick the first choice.
10 years from now, when I pay to watch another season of ML Baseball on the MLB package on Direct TV……I’m not going to be paying to watch a whole season of past highlights of The Dipper……I’m going to be watching whoever is playing on the Braves at the time. In other words…..the BRAVES TEAM.
Some of you have said that I should wait until The Dipper fails before coming on here complaining. I guess that you guys only go to the doctor when you are hurting (in other words, you never get check-ups or physicals UNLESS there is something specifically wrong with you)?
The Braves should not wait for The Dipper to struggle for 2 months before dropping him to the #6 spot of the order.
Again, I challenge ANY OF YOU to show me ONE PLAYER in the history of baseball….who struggled with injuries and production at ages 37 and 38…..only to rebound with a really good season (the kind of season that the Braves are going to need from a #3 hitter) at age 39.
I’ll be here waiting for any of you to answer my challenge.
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
5:07 pm
With all the resources that David O’Brainless One has, I challenge him to come and show me how common it is for a player who has struggled with injuries and production at ages 37 an 38….to rebound at age 39 to have the kind of season that many of you are “predicting” that The Dipper is going to have.
Show me O’Talentless One! Prove me that you’re more than a lackey who can only write fluff pieces for readers who are unable to do anything more than drink the kool-aid that keeps the south the laughing stock of the civilized, educated, enlightened world, lol!
Ghost
March 30th, 2011
6:04 pm
Foghorn , you know nothing about baseball. HA! HA! HA!
Foghorn Leghorn
March 30th, 2011
7:20 pm
Ghost……At least I have the courage and ability to articulate my position…instead of blindly agreeing with what “feels good” (holding onto nostalgia and having memories of past glory that clouds judgment about a player’s ability to contribute today to a team winning).
It isnt that I dont want The Dipper to play like Chipper Jones used to play. It’s that I dont think that we’ll ever see Chipper Jones again. What we are stuck with today is The Dipper.
Choppinmama
March 30th, 2011
10:47 pm
Looks like the only way we’re going to get Chip out of the broadcast booth is when Chipper retires and goes up there and kicks him out! I love to hear former players announcing games, love to hear them talk about their experiences (except for Joe Morgan’s endless “me” tales), and can always seem to relate to whatever the situation is on the field.
He’ll have to lose a little of his drawl so them dang northerners will be able to understand him. Ol’ Brillo Head and Ol’ Hoss should make a fine broadcast team. (Joe would be a fine alternative too.)
HornLeg HornFog
March 30th, 2011
11:15 pm
I love how quiet people are when you challenge them to prove their point.
HornLeg HornFog
March 30th, 2011
11:22 pm
Choppinmama…….I totally agree with your 10:47pm post. In fact, you should encourage The Dipper that he should immediately retire because fans like you can only enjoy listening to a Braves game if ex-players (which is what he really is at this point) like The Dipper breaks it down by telling stories of past glory (which would perfectly apply because The Dipper’s glory is way in the past).
Braves Forever
March 31st, 2011
3:41 am
HornLeg HornFog – Let’s make a bet for $5,000.00…I say Chipper hits at least .300, 20 HRs and 80 RBIs this season.
I love how quiet you get when people ask you to put money where your mouth is
The Voice of Reason
April 4th, 2011
7:26 pm
One-hundred-ninety-FIRST.