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Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,473 comments Add your comment
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
7:47 pm
Whoa, Hawks traded Bibby for Hinrich. I’m surprised they were able to get anything for him. Wonder who else was in the deal…
nolie
February 23rd, 2011
7:47 pm
If KK stayed in the game long enough to pitch as many innings as Lowe his era would explode to 10.00 Bat
balderdash that is what relievers are for
Jake W.
February 23rd, 2011
7:47 pm
I don’t think KK is as bad as people make him out to be but his era is rising while Lowe’s is falling. If I had my choice, Lowe over KK, not even a contest. Not to mention for some reason the braves just don’t play well when KK is on the mound, no idea why. For his own sake he may need a fresh start somewhere else, where he actually gets run support.
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:47 pm
Oh good grief, Kirk Hinrich? That’s our answer?
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:48 pm
Mo Evans, Jordan Crawford, and a couple of 1st rounders I think. We definitely needed to make a move but ugh.
N8
February 23rd, 2011
7:49 pm
Good come back nolie. Well done.
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
7:50 pm
@Trey…They Played My old T.I. “What Chu Know Bout That!” on 107.9 earlier on my Lunch Today…I was Jammin fro about 5 minuets! That song Is My Jam!
That song Brings me back to the Weekend Nights Getting Crunk At The Kappa Sig House in Arkansas…
Bat Masterson
February 23rd, 2011
7:50 pm
Soph_
No I have been bored with the Hawks. Good to hear they are making a move, something has to give with them.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
7:50 pm
Soph—
Yeah, I’m not sure what’s up with the ChopTalk thing…I’ve been typing “braves.com/choptalk” in my browser since December, and for over two months it said, “Coming January 2011!” I just did it now and see they’ve changed it to “Coming in March 2011!”
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/atl/fan_forum/bravescountry_magazine.jsp
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
7:51 pm
Oh my gosh…they gave up a 1st round pick too?
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
7:51 pm
Soph
Funny you should mention Chop Talk…..that was always a “staple” present hubby got me for Christmas and, when it didn’t come in Jan., I thought he’d just forgotten. Was behind on reading them because I saved them for the off season and, when I got to the Dec. issue and they said it was a collector’s item because it was the last print edition, I didn’t know where to go then, either.
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
7:52 pm
@Jake W
“For his own sake he may need a fresh start somewhere else, where he actually gets run support.”
That My Man would be up in The Rotten Apple, Playing for WhineBrenner. In That lineup KK will be a .510 win pct-age pitcher
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
7:52 pm
We got a center too, but he seems like an American Zaza Pachulia
Jake W.
February 23rd, 2011
7:53 pm
Am I looking a t Kirk Heinrich wrong or something, why are we giving up 3 players and draft picks for him and what, a backup center?
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:53 pm
The 1st rounder was in the talks but not sure if they actually gave it up. I hope not because Hinrich + Hilton Armstrong (who?) are not worth that much.
Venice Jim
February 23rd, 2011
7:53 pm
This may have already been mentioned, but the all-time greatest Braves’ player, or greatest player period IMO, is on Letterman tonight.
I forgot Paul Schafer was with the Braves a long time before his nephew Logan…
Braveheart
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
Medlen is not pitching this year. He lives off his changeup and that will take longer for him to get back after Tommy John surgery
Why would it take longer because of a changeup? That doesn’t seem to make sense. Seems like that concern would be more legit if he had been making his living off of breaking pitches. But I could be wrong, and ignorant, and not thinking it out all the way.
N8
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
OK, since you demand that he would have put us over the top.
I think in 2007 he would have put us over the top. He made 32 starts. Pitched 202 innings and had an ERA around 3.50.
If you combine that with Hudson, Smoltz and Chuck James (who wasn’t bad that year), giving the Braves 4 really good starters and leaving the rest of the trash we threw out there to battle over the 5th starter position? I think it makes a differece, JS never trades for Tex and we win the division instead finishing 5 games back in 3rd place behind the Mets and Phillies.
THEN, whatever prospects were traded for Tex could have been traded in the off-season to improve our chances in 2008 and 2009, along with NEVER needed KK and/or Lowe.
But you’re right. common sense is usually wrong and no chance in hell that Adam Wainwright improves the pitching rich Braves the past 5 years, right?
Bat Masterson
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
balderdash that is what relievers are for nolie
Hey! Don’t balderdash my hyperbole.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
Yeah…wonder how much the online subscription is gonna cost…
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
I’m mad we gave up on JCraw2 that quick. Never gave him a chance, imo. We suck at developing players.
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
Not To Mention WhineBrenner and Ca$hman would take KK’s contract off our hands easily…That makes Sprint Sense!
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
7:54 pm
Tomahawkin’, that’s a good song right there. I am not too fond of rap or hip hop, but that is probably one of the betters. At least “What you know about that” isn’t about shoes, or being broke in the hood like most rappers rap about these days.
Venice Jim
February 23rd, 2011
7:55 pm
My point is – if a decent offer comes along, doesn’t it make sense to trade our $15 million, 4th best pitcher?
And how many Braves’ pitchers have won more games in the last two years?
nolie
February 23rd, 2011
7:55 pm
well piffle
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:55 pm
McFann – I saw that they’re changing the name to Braves Country magazine. I extended my subscription last Aug but have only gotten 4 issues since then.
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
7:55 pm
But Jeffrey it’s all about the wins that Lowe obviously deserved so much more than KK did….
Derek Lowe gave up 5 runs in 6 innings in his first game in 2010 and won.
Kawakami gave up 2 runs in 6 innings in his first game of 2010 and lost.
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:56 pm
Whatchu know about that, whatchu know about that, see I know all about that.
nolie
February 23rd, 2011
7:56 pm
Is that sung to the tune of Don’t Bogart that joint my friend Bat?
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
7:57 pm
Braveheat
Co-Sign on that Post…I thought it was longer/harder to recover from TJ surgery if you threw a slider frequenty (like Smoltz) as opposed to MEDS?
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
7:57 pm
Jeffrey, but there have been games when Kawakami had run support and still blew it.
nolie
February 23rd, 2011
7:57 pm
whoooosh
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
McFann
Hate to say it but it won’t matter to me. I’m one of those dinosaurs that wants the print edition and get get newsprint on my hands when I read it.
nolie
February 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
but there have been games when Kawakami had run support and still blew it. Trey
yeah just like every other pitcher who ever lived
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
Gone Viral… Solid post at 6:27 pm.
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
By my judgement, Lowe is our 4th best pitcher. If someone was willing to pay $15 million for our 4th best pitcher, wouldn’t you at least consider it?
I agree that our rotation is better with Lowe in it. But $15 million can get you a lot. Anyway, it’s all blog talk anyway. Nothing serious.
Venice Jim
February 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
jeffrey d showing that he can play “I’m smarter than Frank Wren” as well as anyone…
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:56 pm
“Whatchu know about that, whatchu know about that, see I know all about that.”
lol, joking, Its Not Cool When You Do It, Soph,
But know your Catching On, That Junk Bumpin, especially the beat, and its catchy
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
7:59 pm
nolie, but Kawakami losing was much more frequent than many other pitcher who has ever lived.
nolie
February 23rd, 2011
7:59 pm
I still much prefer an actual physical magazine in my hans than to read the same stuff on the net. OldFogeyism I guess
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
7:59 pm
Just Pat – same here! Not sure how often I’ll remember to check the online version but guess it’s better then nothing. Hopefully, they start it back up in March like they’re saying.
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:01 pm
Kawakami also had some of the lowest run support of any pitchers over the past couple years.
ANYWAY….
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:01 pm
I don’t get this trade at all. Hinrich??
Venice Jim
February 23rd, 2011
8:01 pm
Soph – hope you’re cheering on my boys for me since I can’t watch…
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
8:02 pm
Trey
“Tomahawkin’, that’s a good song right there. I am not too fond of rap or hip hop, but that is probably one of the betters. At least “What you know about that” isn’t about shoes, or being broke in the hood like most rappers rap about these days.”
Yeah! Really…! At least pull a Sir-Mix-A-Lot and Talk about Butts…
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
8:03 pm
VJ – in your dreams.
I’m waiting for my game. 9pm’s too late on a weeknight.
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:03 pm
I’m waiting for my game. 9pm’s too late on a weeknight.
Hawks?
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
8:04 pm
Yup, we gave up a first-rounder. Sucktastic.
Jake W.
February 23rd, 2011
8:04 pm
Lowe is not our 4th best pitcher. KK pitched better than him the first season but it was the opposite last year. We get it, KK received crappy run support for the most part while he’s been here but I think the braves have pretty much made up their mind that they are trading him and they apparently feel Lowe’s rebound when we needed him the most last year is good enough. Hudson struggled in September, the braves stopped scoring runs, and KK had become the Where’s Waldo of the braves. For whatever reason KK’s time with the braves hasn’t really been beneficial to him or the team. I was one of the biggest KK defenders during his time here but I can’t blame the braves for shopping him and right now I can’t really argue for KK over Lowe.
Venice Jim
February 23rd, 2011
8:04 pm
Hinrich has given up very few earned runs this year…
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
8:04 pm
Tomahawkin, haven’t heard about Sir Mix A lot in years. I used to like “The Dip” from Freak Nasty.
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
8:04 pm
UNC. Hawks make me miserable.
Bat Masterson
February 23rd, 2011
8:04 pm
Is that sung to the tune of Don’t Bogart that joint my friend Bat?
Sounds right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGJvzwKqg0
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
8:05 pm
@Trey
And Now I’m Tired Of all the Atlanta Garbage Rap that is out now (Since Atlanta is the Mecca of todays Garbage Rap) that is all about the Strip Joints…I love Chicks and Parties but I hate Strip Joints
cabravesfan
February 23rd, 2011
8:05 pm
my head is bleeding…
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:05 pm
But he’s only got 15 wins. And we all know that wins are the most important stat in the universe in evaluating a player.
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:06 pm
Wainwright was a talent to build around. But in 2004, Schuerholz wasn’t interest in the longer term. he wanted to extend”The Run” another year, so he dealt the Braves’ top pitching prospect for a one-year rental. No way Boras was going to let Drew sign with the Braves within the Braves’ budget parameters.
Again, I’ll note that Wren has done an about-face from Schuerholz’s last few seasons running the day-to-day. Wren is stockpiling pitching. He hasn’t made anything on par with the Drew or Tex deals. I don’t think Wren will. I think his horizon is longer term.
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:06 pm
Hawks are playing at 9 too….I was hoping you were still calling that “my game”
cabravesfan
February 23rd, 2011
8:06 pm
But if KK is a better pitcher then Lowe, why wouldn’t a team ask for him at half the price?
Soph
February 23rd, 2011
8:06 pm
That reminds me, I gotta finish my wall.
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
8:07 pm
Soph & McFann
At least with DOB I feel like I’m still “in touch”…..even without the newsprint. Of course, don’t get all those cute pics of babies in Braves hats…..but…I can live without that.
Bat Masterson
February 23rd, 2011
8:07 pm
KK found his way into Cox’s doghouse, that ain’t easy to do.
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
8:08 pm
Trey
“Tomahawkin, haven’t heard about Sir Mix A lot in years. I used to like “The Dip” from Freak Nasty.”
That was my Jam when I 10 years old as well as “Tootsie Roll” that song was soooo Good they had to do it twice…And That old Quad City DJ’s “Come On Ride That Train” still goes hard! The 9-Quatz (1994) was a Good Year for Rap since it was outlawed and 95 percent of it wasn’t made to be Pop AKA sellout garbage
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
8:10 pm
cabravesfan
“my head is bleeding…”
Ouch!, From What?
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:10 pm
Lowe isn’t a $15 million annual pitcher, but I’ll say this, he’s produced respectable numbers in his two seasons with the Braves. In fact, he’s largely performed to his averages. And in the Braves’ stretch run last season, he stepped up his game while others were flagging.
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
8:11 pm
VJ @ 8:04
cabravesfan
February 23rd, 2011
8:12 pm
T-Hawkin’
The brick wall is in heavy use at the moment…
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
8:12 pm
Tomahawkin, I enjoy today’s music, but I enjoy a lot of older stuff too. I enjoy a wide variety of music, from rock to country to very seldom amount of rap. I can’t stand pop though.
Btw, what do you think about Usher working with that little pop kid?
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:12 pm
But if KK is a better pitcher then Lowe, why wouldn’t a team ask for him at half the price?
That’s not my point! My point is that at $15 million and with several able candidates to replace him, I think Lowe can be expendable.
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:13 pm
The KK comparison was to show that Lowe hasn’t been anything special since coming to Atlanta. NOT to rally for KK to pitch opening day.
Jake W.
February 23rd, 2011
8:14 pm
Lowe isn’t a $15 million annual pitcher, but I’ll say this, he’s produced respectable numbers in his two seasons with the Braves. In fact, he’s largely performed to his averages. And in the Braves’ stretch run last season, he stepped up his game while others were flagging.
1.17 ERA in the month of September, he stepped up big time.
Venice Jim
February 23rd, 2011
8:15 pm
My point is that at $15 million and with several able candidates to replace him, I think Lowe can be expendable.
Which puts you at odds with everyone in a position of prominence within the Braves’ organization…
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:15 pm
I think Kawakami suffered from too much hype… you know, another Maddux or some such.
As I recall, his team in the Land of the Rising Sun was a six-man rotation? I think he went five innings or so a game then?
Frankly, Kawakami struck me as a pitcher who’s talent topped out at high AA. Sure, he had some success his first season; other teams didn’t have a book on him. When they developed the book, they knocked the K-Man around like a piñata.
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
8:16 pm
Jeff R
Exactly……”it is what it is”. Lowe was a stopgap measure for us when we needed it and he’s done OK. I cringed sometimes when KK came up to pitch, even though I know all about the numbers proving he didn’t get run support. In the end, Lowe came through.
N8
February 23rd, 2011
8:16 pm
Is that Fredi Gonzalez or a RH version of David Wells in that photo on the Braves front page of the AJC?
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
8:17 pm
Jeffrey, wins aren’t everything, but Kawakami had a 5.15 ERA for the season. His H/9 innings were 10.1
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
8:18 pm
@Trey
Usher Sucks Now…He Just Doesn’t do it for me…Now Old Usher on the Other Hand before he Sold Out with that Annoying “Yeah” Song, Goes Hard!
That Garbage “Yeah” song might be the most overplayed party song ever along with “Get Low” AKA “To The Window-To The Wall”! GRRRRR
And The Cupid Shuffle is Garbage as Well…!
cabravesfan
February 23rd, 2011
8:19 pm
but we have no idea if the candidates are servicable because most of them have very limited or no experience in the majors. Besides, there is the distinct possibility that if Lowe were to be traded, the Braves would most likely have to pick up a not insignificant chunk of his contract, so it would probably be more like $7-8 million that they’d have left…
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:19 pm
jeffrey d… go back through the blog and read DOB’s comments on Lowe’s “expendability.” The upshot is the Braves aren’t going to move Lowe now; management wants Lowe’s reliable veteran arm in the rotation.
I see the sense in that. Me, if the Yanks or the Cards wanted to unload a couple of top prospects for Lowe, I’d be sorely tempted.
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
8:19 pm
Just Pat, he still couldn’t win if his team scored five, or six runs for him.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
8:19 pm
Soph—
Ugh…that’s annoying. I wish they wouldn’t have had to do this, but, what cann ya do?
Just Pat—
Oh, I like getting the print editions better, too…don’t like how everything has to go “digital” (except for this…yeah, LOVE the Blog…DOB’s on top of everything over here). But I always enjoy getting fun things in the mail.
Tomahawkin
February 23rd, 2011
8:20 pm
cabravesfan
T-Hawkin’
“The brick wall is in heavy use at the moment…”
I’d Hate to see what it is like during the games…? Try smoking a Hookah or some Zanax…? Can’t you just like Free your mind or something? joking
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:20 pm
Just Pat… Yes, indeed.
cabravesfan
February 23rd, 2011
8:22 pm
Nobody’s unloading top prospects for Derek Lowe
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
8:25 pm
Trey
Just saying that we paid too much for Lowe at a time when we HAD to pay too much and he shouldn’t be faulted for that. He DI end up doing what was needed at the time and KK never did…..so, I guess we’re basically saying the same thing????
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:26 pm
cabravesfan… Your probably right. But the Yanks have more money than sense… All those bucks slant their perspective at times. Who knows what they’d throw at the Braves if they see the season heading south.
Jake W.
February 23rd, 2011
8:26 pm
Lowe isn’t untouchable but he’s not in the position that he was in last offseason. He showed some very good signs of life to end this season while last season the season couldn’t end soon enough for him. To me his struggles are reminiscent of Hudson’s first two seasons with us. Hudson had a 4.23 era in his first two seasons and Lowe a 4.33 era, but both have the track records in MLB that KK doesn’t have.
N8
February 23rd, 2011
8:27 pm
Agree with your 8:06 Jeff R.
It’s not even a matter of Wren being better than JS or the other way around.
JS was hampered by the run and his ego to extend it at all costs. Wren has looked to retool the farm system (maybe to perhaps pull off his own blockbuster “prospect for superstar” trade in the future), and to think long-term.
Just simply two different philosophies. Obviously JS in the early 90’s was very long-term conscious, so it’s not that he didn’t have it in him to think that way.
He just wasing thinking that way the last few years he was the GM. Some of it had to do with the aging of guys like Smoltz and Chipper, and of course the question of when Bobby would hang them up.
Like it or not, having Bobby around, meant that as a GM your hand was forced to “attempt” to win, rather than go through a possble needed rebuilding time. It’s not a knock on Bobby. Just stating common sense (I know nolie doesn’t believe in that, but allow me to continue)….
Why would a GM ask a HOF manager to purposely go through a rebuilding process at his age when he might only have a few years left before retiring? The answer is that he wouldn’t. It also would have been rude to ask Bobby to step down for the sake of the team rebuilding with another guy.
As long as Bobby was staying, JS needed to do what he could to see to it that winning was as close to guaranteed as it could be. The funny thing about the JD Drew trade is that NOBODY around baseball thought it was a sound move at the time. I remember reading every mag and website stating how much they doubted Drew would remain healthy enough to replace the production that Sheffield had provided before him.
So, kudos to JS and the scouts taking a gamble that Drew would perform. But no kudos for giving up Wainwright to get him.
Obviously as a fan likes prospects and sees close up (with the near by Twins who my local paper considers the team to cover as though they were in our city), how those young players can rejuvinate a fan base and keep a team with a budget in contention year after year, I like what Wren is doing.
Just Pat
February 23rd, 2011
8:28 pm
OK…hubby is FINALLY ready to go, so…..nite all! Be good and play nice!
Trey
February 23rd, 2011
8:31 pm
Just Pat, we had to pay Lowe that, but I actually have respect for Lowe. After Lowe’s injury he came around and started dominating on the mound. I disliked Lowe for a while, but he earned some of my respect while on the mound late last season.
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
8:35 pm
N8… Agreed. Not taking anything away from Schuerholz. His horizon was longer when he came to the Braves in ‘90 or so. And if you go back and look at the 2004 roster, Schuerholz got a lot of mileage out of pitchers that were one or two year producers. Ortiz, Wright, Hampton, and Thomson. Pretty amazing, actually.
keylargo
February 23rd, 2011
8:38 pm
Y’all better get off Medlen being a factor this year. He won’t be back until late summer and he’ll more than likely be about like Tim Hudson was in 09. 42 IP and 2 – 1 record.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
8:41 pm
Night, Just Pat!
E-Brave Fan
February 23rd, 2011
8:42 pm
McFann
My understanding is that if you had a subscription to ChopTalk, it converts to the online edition and would expire when your CT expired. I think my CT is good through June 2012. Hope this helps. More than ready for new issues and hate that they are only digital now!
Mark
February 23rd, 2011
8:47 pm
I just everyone in my little small town looking for the SI with Freddie and Jason on the cover with no luck. It’s time to move.
N8
February 23rd, 2011
8:49 pm
I agree Jeff R, JS had some gambles that paid off after Glavine and Maddux left. Short term at least. He seemed to push all the right buttons.
The thing is, is that some injuries killed those 2007 and 2008 teams too (some of that was counting on Hampton to “come back” – which in hindsight was a mistake).
So, with all the young guys that came along in between playoff births, JS and Wren actually did manage to “rebuild” while really only having one season (2008) where the team was just awful and won only 72 games.
I’m just saying that 2007, 2008 and 2009 might have been more geared for success, had they just decided to “tank” 2005 and 2006 the way that Cox as GM decided to do by playing all the young guys in 89 and 90.
But as I stated, with old man Cox on board and nearing retirement, it wasn’t an option. As it shouldn’t have been.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
8:49 pm
E-Brave—
Thanks! That would make sense…of course, my subscription ran out in December, I think, so I’d have to renew still…
But yeah, I’m totally ready for some new stuff! Hope it’s not too pricey…don’t wanna pay over 30 dollars for the digital thing…At least we have the Blog!
Mark
February 23rd, 2011
8:49 pm
Let’s try that again……I just looked everywhere for the SI with Freddie and Jason on the cover with no luck. It’s time to move!
DS1
February 23rd, 2011
8:50 pm
Why would the Braves want to deal Lowe???
His salary is not a factor, with him being a 15 game winner per year. One players salary is not necessarily a factor, unless it is someone like A-Rod in Texas.
And I am in agreement with others that Kawakami isn’t nearly as bad as some would have you think, nor is he nearly as good as Lowe.
And if you will remember, back 2 months ago, I was saying we need to hang onto KK into the spring, to give him a chance to increase his value (to the Braves or as a trade piece).
How’d you folks like the big deal the Jazz made this morning??? (btw, I called it, though not on the Braves baseball blog)
jeffrey d
February 23rd, 2011
8:52 pm
Geeze…I say that trading a $15 million, so-so pitcher might not be the worst thing that could happen to the Braves, but you’d think I just told everyone that I eat puppies.