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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,473 comments Add your comment
Arkansas Transplant
February 23rd, 2011
3:55 pm
P-T, you think your behind. I’ve been out of pocket for the last 2 hours. There’s no way I can go back and read everthing without giving up my time of posting.
Ed Glennon
February 23rd, 2011
3:55 pm
Great info DOB. Hope you can give us a play by play of the first spring game.
Freeman Says Hey
February 23rd, 2011
3:56 pm
Like Bill Murray, Baby Steps.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
3:57 pm
Matt—
But he’s about to!
You’re welcome, Freeman Says Hey!
Horner's Corner
February 23rd, 2011
3:58 pm
Geez Robert, you seem to be quite the fitness guru.
What really got me about Maddux’s exercise regiment was how it negatively affected his ability to pitch so remarkably during one the greatest hitter’s eras in baseball history. What a slob. And don’t get me started on Andruw Jones. If that tub of goo had just done a few laps in the pool maybe he could have won more than a decade’s worth of gold gloves.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
February 23rd, 2011
4:00 pm
Robert, It might be a flaw that the Braves haven’t spent much time demanding players to be fit but, I bet if you look around baseball for the most part the conditioning and demand on conditioning isn’t much different here than on other teams.
Are you saying it’s not possible he could’ve been even BETTER had he adhered to a stricter fitness regimen?
Who know he also could have torn a muscle working out and never been the same. If a player is out of shape it normally gets dealt with. Andruw Jones got fat and lazy so the Braves didn’t resign him. That’s normally the way it works
Shaun
February 23rd, 2011
4:04 pm
Robert, when was Andruw unfit early in his career?
Also, the Braves were one of the best franchises in baseball (as far as major league wins) over the last 20 years. So again where is the evidence or some reasons to believe they were unfit or at least so unfit that it mattered on the baseball field?
Or is it like everything else, the evidence is in a few weeks of each season versus looking at 20 years worth of baseball?
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:05 pm
“I bet if you look at his power numbers since All-star 2009, there would be considerable drop off.”
Challenge accepted.
8 / 37 / .298 / .375 / .487 – 2009 pre AS
13 / 57 / .264 / .322 / .484 – 2009 post AS
Gone Viral
February 23rd, 2011
4:09 pm
“Clearly a very solid prospect but no indication that he wasn’t worth Drew in his prime.”
I disagreed then when people tried to say that and it’s only gotten worse over time. JD Drew was a perennial underachiever who was at the end of his contract. We made a desperate gamble that encapsulated three mistakes at once. The first was that we had not pressed Gary Sheffield to extend his contract as he was having two fine seasons for us. The second was that we went after a trade with someone we knew was not certain to extend his contract after the season. The third was that we made a miscalculation about the upside of Wainwright while overvaluing the potential of Bubba Nelson, Zach Minor and Kyle Davies (who only about 19 at the time).
We repeated this mistake with the Tex trade. Paying a lot in terms of prospects for a year of a player (two if you count Eli Marrero, which we should) is the MLB equivalent of Russian Roulette. We fell for the ol’ di di mau. I appreciated the earlier poster’s attempt to show that the Braves’ later moves may not have been possible if not for this deal, but if we’d had Adam Wainwright for those six years, does anyone legitimately doubt we would have done better? I’m not talking about a homer’s defense. I’m saying, “Would you rather have one year of Drew/Marrero or six years of Adam Wainwright?” He was a Braves fan since childhood and we sent him away. We deserve the lamentations from that.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:09 pm
“As in when will we see Bobby go into the hall?”
He can go in anytime. All he has to do is walk up to the window and lift one hoof into the air to indicate he wants a single ticket
Murph
February 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
Good info on Wainwright,becauase there was some people on the blog who still wanted him on our team.Now thats funny…
Ward, I’ve been a big supporter of yours over the last few months, but I’m starting to feel… twitchy… when I read your posts lately. Kind of like the way I felt when I came home from work one day and found my 3 year old stuffing quarters into my MacBook Pro DVD drive opening. My hands are out-stretched in a “I want to strangle you” pose, I’m shaking, but I am somehow staying restrained. Getting… more… difficult… errrrrrrp… gah…
RUN WARD!
Horner's Corner
February 23rd, 2011
4:10 pm
Robert-
Is it possible that a professional athlete may know his/her own body better than you do? Also, there’s a concept known as the law of diminishing returns which is, “The tendency for a continuing application of effort or skill toward a particular project or goal to decline in effectiveness after a certain level of result” Simply put, Maddux could have played less golf and worked out 2 hours every day of the off season, but it wouldn’t have made him that much better at baseball.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:11 pm
“Robert, when was Andruw unfit early in his career?”
The question is more when (if ever) was Andru in tip top shape, at any point in his career?
BravePack
February 23rd, 2011
4:11 pm
Man you guys don’t know how much I want to move down south. I would love to be in Georgia or Florida right now. For those of you enjoying great weather…you suck. Just kidding… I’m just jealous. I love Georgia and my family loves it, we look forward to our summer trip every year. We go to more Turner Field Braves games than we go here in Chicago. I would love definately have season tix if I lived there.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
February 23rd, 2011
4:12 pm
Shaun, stop making since some people won’t understand.
Arkansas Transplant
February 23rd, 2011
4:13 pm
Murph, does that mean your going to have to change your team name?
Matt
February 23rd, 2011
4:13 pm
If i lived in Chicago i would be at wrigley all summer…
BravePack
February 23rd, 2011
4:13 pm
Man I can’t type today… scratch that last love.
Gone Viral
February 23rd, 2011
4:13 pm
“Robert, when was Andruw unfit early in his career?”
Seriously, that’s absurd. Here is a picture of Andruw in 96:
http://californiasportsinv.com/images/9993800184136526dcf8b4.JPG
He was smallish at the start of his career (as he should have been as a 19-year-old athlete).
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:13 pm
“Simply put, Maddux could have played less golf and worked out 2 hours every day of the off season, but it wouldn’t have made him that much better at baseball.”
This is a different arguement. I was saying he maybe couldve been better had he been fitter
You’re saying that maybe he decided the extra return wasnt worth the investment and tradeoff
Both can be true
I am impressed by the lengths some of y’all will go to in order to try and discredit anything I say. It tells me I must been onto something – since it hits such a nerve
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:14 pm
“The Braves have a poor track record on fitness. It’s never been emphasized. Chipper’s comments earlier this spring show that to be true. And just as an example, as much as I loved watching him pitch, Greg Maddux’s idea of fitness was riding a golf cart for 36 holes instead of 18. If fitness had been a priority, Andru Jones wouldve been benched for being a fat slob early and often in his career”
Ha ha ha…no, I got this….yep, going to respond….hehehe…..stop it, trying to reply here…..ha ha ha…whew, if I could just stop laughing long enough to be serious and reply to the troll…..LOL….no, I got it…..(breathe)……okay…now I’m ready……Ha Ha Ha…..darn…
Murph
February 23rd, 2011
4:14 pm
What is it now AT? Ward’s Revenge? I might need to change it to “In Memory of Ward” soon…
GT Alum
February 23rd, 2011
4:15 pm
Murph -
Got a nice chuckle from the image of you walking in on your 3 year old with the laptop. You were just missing the cartoon smoke coming coming out of your ears.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:15 pm
“He was smallish at the start of his career (as he should have been as a 19-year-old athlete).”
Ok – I stand corrected. We can now say that before he was exposed to Cox’s attitude regarding fitness, Andru was once in shape
Carry on
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:15 pm
“I am impressed by the lengths some of y’all will go to in order to try and discredit anything I say. It tells me I must been onto something – since it hits such a nerve”
Really? You think because you are successful at trolling that it means you stumbled across a nugget of truth in your constant bashing of the home team?
Really?
what of it?
February 23rd, 2011
4:16 pm
ramblingman you’ve left off OPS
OPS 2009 pre-all star: .862 post: .806
2010 .269/.459/.828
so he’s lost 30 points on batting average roughly 20 on slg and about 40 on OPS. that’s a clear drop-off. whether significant or not is debatable, but he hasn’t been getting better
Murph
February 23rd, 2011
4:17 pm
If i lived in Chicago i would be at wrigley all summer…
I lived in Chicago and went to Wrigley a few times… maybe it’s my old age or my dislike of standing in puddles of pee, but I didn’t care much for the stadium.
Sure, it’s cool and historic and a fun place to see a ballgame, but the facilities were awful. I had my baby and pregnant wife with me for one game and wanted to bathe them both in a gallon of hand sanitizer after we left. It was just kinda gross everywhere we went.
GT Alum
February 23rd, 2011
4:17 pm
BravePack -
Yeah, I’ve had the pleasure of visiting Chicago the past 2 summers. Wonderful city, but I have no interest in being there during the winter.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:18 pm
Ramblingman – If you dont look for areas in which the team could improve, then they never will
If you are content to be one of those fans who happily drinks the Kool Aid then rah rah the team all season long.
Just remember to buy lots of hot dogs and team merchandise at the official team store
BravePack
February 23rd, 2011
4:19 pm
Matt
I’ve lived here all my life and to me Wrigley is overrated. It’s nice to go to once in a while because it has that old time feel but unless you’re a Cubs fan it gets old quick. No where to park and it’s costs an arm and a leg if you find some parking. The place is actually falling apart and needs major reconstruction. Every year you hear something falling apart during the off-season. The only nice thing is the eye candy in the stands…makes it hard to watch the actual game.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:21 pm
Showing me a photo of Andru fit at age 19 is not a way to refute my claim that he was on the whole an out of shape ballpalyer for his career
It’s like claiming that no he wasnt a poor hitter because he hit .300 one season
Shaun
February 23rd, 2011
4:22 pm
Gone Viral, in a vacuum, I’d rather have six years of Wainwright. But in reality, it’s more complicated. I’m not saying your points are not valid. If the Braves were clearly in rebuilding mode, they absolutely shouldn’t have made the Wainwright deal nor the Teixeira deal. Again, ignoring context, these aren’t great deals.
But the Braves thought they were still playoff-caliber going into 2004 if they could only fill the rightfield void. They thought they could get a big push into the playoffs by going all in on the biggest impact player at the 2007 deadline.
We were spoiled in the 1990’s and into 2000’s into thinking that teams can afford to play for next year or two or three years down the line when they were already contending. But the truth is that when you are contending and have a shot at winning the Series, you go for it.
If trading Jason Heyward a couple of years ago would have guaranteed a World Series title, I would have been for it. Of course the future is not that cut-and-dry at all, so you can’t give up players of that caliber for merely a shot at winning the World Series. But organization should take it down a notch and trade lesser-but-still-solid prospects to increase their chances.
Arkansas Transplant
February 23rd, 2011
4:24 pm
Murph
February 23rd, 2011
4:17 pm
That’s just Chicago in general.
BravePack
February 23rd, 2011
4:24 pm
Murph
No you are exactly right about Wrigley. Anytime I go there I say to myself that it smells worse and worse everytime I come to see a game here. Multiple showers are needed after attending a game there for the whole family.
Gone Viral
February 23rd, 2011
4:24 pm
“Showing me a photo of Andru fit at age 19 is not a way to refute my claim”
And I quote: “Ok – I stand corrected.”
You replied again to the same post because it bothered you how ridiculous you looked in the argument.
Don’t be that guy.
Jeff R
February 23rd, 2011
4:25 pm
Shaun… your 2:54 pm post…
Sometimes that’s the problem with rankings and being so strongly data-driven. Wainwright was well regarded at the time of the Drew deal and, I think, the top pitching prospect in the Braves’ system. As your rankings show, though, Wainwright wasn’t a top ten MLB prospect. But neither was Hanson or Prado… or many other accomplished major leaguers.
I think evaluating players and prospects encompasses more than key categories. Not suggesting those categories aren’t important, but they’re not the be all and end all.
And, yes, hindsight is 20-20. I’ll gladly concede its much easier to make commentary about the Wainwright deal – or any other deal – looking in the rear-view mirror.
BravePack
February 23rd, 2011
4:26 pm
AT
Yeah you might be right. Like I said I’m ready to move down south for good…very tired of living here. Hey you get a chance to play the demo for MLB 11 yet?
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
4:26 pm
OK, fresh page! Time to post those numbers from my latest Research Project!
The question was BMac’s power numbers since the 2009 All-Star Break. So I took his numbers from his career up until that particular Break, and his numbers since that particular Break, and crunched them, so to speak. And here are my results (Spring Training stats not included):
BMac’s Career Pre-2009 ASB: 1,837 AB (2,094 PA)…78 HR…140 2B…2 3B…220 XBH
That comes out to 1 XBH every 8.5136363636…etc AB, or 1 XBH every 9.5181818…etc PA.
BMac’s Career Post-2009 ASB: 729 AB (844 PA)…34 HR…41 2B…0 3B…75 XBH
That comes out to 1 XBH every 9.72ish AB, or 1 XBH every 11.25333333…etc PA.
So not a considerable drop-off at all. A slight one, yes, but I think that was somewhat apparent to anyone concerned, what with the decline in Doubles. But this year, they’re going back up!
Freeman Says Hey
February 23rd, 2011
4:27 pm
Hey while your looking for photo’s dig up a picture of Rosanna Arquette at 19 while your at it. Sure she will be a little more trim (hehe) than AJ.
Shaun
February 23rd, 2011
4:27 pm
Showing me a photo of Andru fit at age 19 is not a way to refute my claim that he was on the whole an out of shape ballpalyer for his career
Nor is just claiming Andruw was out of shape early in his career a way to refute the claim that he was in at least decent shape.
It’s like claiming that no he wasnt a poor hitter because he hit .300 one season
I would claim that he wasn’t a poor hitter because he got on-base at a solid rate and he had great power. If Andruw was a poor hitter, you have some pretty high standards. I think this points out the flaws in your expectations of the Braves and Bobby Cox: If someone is not an elite, Hall-of-Fame type player, you consider them “poor.”
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:28 pm
“But the truth is that when you are contending and have a shot at winning the Series, you go for it”
The skill is in deciding what constitutes a real chance
Case in point – in 1998 a 90 win Cubs team made the NL playoffs as the Wild Card. They were in the playoffs with a 106 win Braves team, a 102 win Astros team, and the 98 win Padres. Had they somehow managed to get thru that, they’d almost certainly have to face a 114 win Yankees juggernaut that was among the best teams ever
Was that stretch run worth Kerry Wood’s career?
I understand that you’d have a hard time convincing Cubbies fans of that in the then and there – but the sober answer was clearly a no
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:29 pm
I did not leave off OPS. OPS is On base Plus Slugging. Since I posted On Base and Slugging, did I really need to add them for you?
However, if you only want to focus on one number, then of course you can make things look pretty much how you want. But if you look at the overall, you’ll see your statement was crock.
You said you would bet there was a “considerable drop off” in McCann’s “power numbers” since the 2009 AS break. Power numbers include more than just OPS.
HR’s were up post AS 2009, and they continued at a comparable pace in 2010. Slugging was almost identical pre and post AS 2009. True, his triples went down in 2010, but his steals increased 25%. Walks jumped and OPS+ went back up after dipping in 2009.
Bottom line – some numbers went up some, some went down some, some stayed pretty much constant. No findings for “considerable drop off” in “power numbers”.
I do notice that you changed your tune, however, from “I bet if you look at his power numbers since All-star 2009, there would be considerable drop off” to “he hasn’t been getting better”.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:30 pm
“I would claim that he wasn’t a poor hitter because he got on-base at a solid rate and he had great power”
If a .338 OBP is what you consdier a solid rate, then there aint no point arguing with you
Andru got on base at what I would call a solid rate (.360+) in 4 out of 15 seasons
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:31 pm
“If you are content to be one of those fans who happily drinks the Kool Aid then rah rah the team all season long”
What I am NOT is a troll who claims to be a fan but has never done anything but bash the team
Horner's Corner
February 23rd, 2011
4:31 pm
“It tells me I must been onto something – since it hits such a nerve”
No, I just think your comments are dumb.
Arkansas Transplant
February 23rd, 2011
4:32 pm
BravePack, no not yet. We’re just about 2 weeks away from it’s release. Have you give it a shot yet?
I use to live up there a long time ago.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:33 pm
“True, his triples went down in 2010, but his steals increased 25%. ”
Context – Steals going up 25% sounds impressive. Then you look and see he went from 4 to 5 – and arent so impressed
CraZyTRaDeMaN
February 23rd, 2011
4:33 pm
Robert just because we don’t BITCH as much as you doesn’t mean we’re drinking the kool-aid it just means we know how to enjoy the game more than Bitch about it!
Gone Viral
February 23rd, 2011
4:34 pm
“Gone Viral, in a vacuum, I’d rather have six years of Wainwright. But in reality, it’s more complicated.”
I am first to line to argument that running a professional sports team is a nightmare of instability and moving parts. We are in complete agreement on this point. It is, however, a different conversation from the specific discussion of the two trades being debated. Both of those situations have a distinct similarity. Each one is a gamble and a bad one at that. I am frankly in awe of the job Frank Wren has done in rebuilding our farm system in the wake of the Tex trade. That doesn’t change the fact that the trade itself was a trainwreck.
Both Tex and Drew gave us fine single season performances (as did Marrero) . What we gave away in terms of short/long term assets dwarfs those, though. It’s worse for me personally when the kid we gave up turned out to be a perennial Cy Young candidate for another team when he grew up rooting for the same Braves player I do. I feel the same kinship to Jair Jurrjens, whose father I would love to buy a beer at a game some time.
Everyone here loves the Atlanta Braves. On those rare occasions when we have a pitcher who dreams of playing for this team and has the electric arm required to make our team, we have to nurture those kids that much more. Pushing away the ones who want to be here like Wainwright and JJ is a mistake. That’s a tangent to the trade itself, but I think everyone here understands what I mean. There is a commonality in our love of Braves baseball that unites us. Wainwright had that yet we ceded him for a year of a guy who clearly didn’t want to be here. And he was FROM here. It’s been like a punch in my stomach since the day that trade was announced.
bravesgrl4life( a/k/a In Love with Fredi G!)
February 23rd, 2011
4:34 pm
Golly, Robert is as annoying as the one who shall not be mentioned!
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:34 pm
“What I am NOT is a troll who claims to be a fan but has never done anything but bash the team”
When I started rooting for the team, you were in diapers
(safe bet even if you’re older than me, if you get my drift)
ncscoots
February 23rd, 2011
4:36 pm
True, his triples went down in 2010
Yeah, but he’s all trim and svelte this year. I’m pretty sure he’s aiming at getting that triples total back up there.
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:36 pm
“Context – Steals going up 25% sounds impressive. Then you look and see he went from 4 to 5 – and arent so impressed”
Hey, troll, do you think there might have been a reason for me to include that in a post where I had just pointed out to the other guy that if you only look at one stat, you can pretty much reach any conclusion?
Give yourself a cookie.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:36 pm
“Robert just because we don’t BITCH as much as you doesn’t mean we’re drinking the kool-aid”
It’s amazing – This whole thing started with me defending McCann – and I’m accused of bitching
Folks – I defended McCann – and I indicated optimism that things were gonna be better than they had been
In my book, thats not bitching
ray k.
February 23rd, 2011
4:36 pm
Glad to hear Nate has been impressive in the cage but what about in CF with the glove? Has he been seeing an “old school” psychiatrist, too? Just wondering if anyone is the least bit concerned about his inability to throw balls into the infield. At least Ankiel had a cannon; Nate has more of a paper airplane type velocity.
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:38 pm
^5’s scoots…heck yeah
Oh, and robbie…before you try to engage me in a “I cheer more for them than you do” contest, you might want to begin cheering for them…or saying anything positive….ever…
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:38 pm
“Hey, troll, do you think there might have been a reason for me to include that in a post ”
Yes. You’re trying to deny that McCann had a downturn in overall performance since the ‘09 AS break by showing that his steals have gone up significantly
Freeman Says Hey
February 23rd, 2011
4:39 pm
I like baseball. Simple as that. We can all have revisionist history and debate what coulda, shoulda, woulda been done. Thats whats great about the game. No need to take any of this banter personal.
Let me tell ya a great place to go watch a game. If you are ever in Charleston SC go visit the Joe. Right on the bank of the Ashley River, and if you go on a Tuesday its “Tasty Tuesday” so you get a great selection of cold beer. That is what baseball is baseball. Along with that is the great debates like today. No need though to take it personal. Its just all in fun.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:39 pm
“you might want to begin cheering for them…or saying anything positive….ever”
I will repeat what I have said before (since 2009 at least)
2011 is gonna be a great year
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:40 pm
Hmmm….I went back and re-read your post, robbie…and I think I found the problem…
What you meant to say was clouded because you have your tense mixed up. You MEANT to say
“when I start rooting for the team, you’ll be in diapers”
ncscoots
February 23rd, 2011
4:40 pm
GV’s comments on the Drew and Tex trades are exactly why I don’t even bother, anymore. He’s a good poster, sound in most of his thinking, and one of my favorite reads. And I bet we’ve discussed those trades enough times to make us both hurl, and I STILL can’t get him to see the light, LOL.
Now, if I can’t move a sane, rational, right-mided guy like that off the opinion, what chance do I have with the goobers and numbletards?
MiaBchBravesFan
February 23rd, 2011
4:40 pm
As I peruse the many posts on this blog, one inescapable thought pops into my head.
This has been one of the most peaceful – in terms of blog climate – ST’s in recent memory.
Everyone knows what is right. Everyone knows what is wrong. We are certain of all the pieces in terms of what they can and cannot do. We finally have a true cleanup hitter…
And everyone seems happy and optimistic. All, good signs.
Freeman Says Hey
February 23rd, 2011
4:41 pm
Also make it a night game while at The Joe. Get a nice breeze off the Ashley.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:41 pm
We have very good starting pitching, perhaps the best bullpen in baseball, all-star caliber players at about half the everyday positions, several very promising youngsters including THE game’s next superstar
and, for the first time in twenty one years, someone with an IQ above that of a moldy turnip managing the team
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:42 pm
“You’re trying to deny that McCann had a downturn in overall performance since the ‘09 AS break by showing that his steals have gone up significantly”
No, I successfull refuted a claim that McCann’s power numbers suffered “considerable drop off” since the 2009 AS break and topped it off by including a couple of stats to refute the position of only using one stat to draw conclusions.
Sorry if that escaped you.
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:42 pm
“2011 is gonna be a great year”
you’re leaving?
what of it?
February 23rd, 2011
4:43 pm
ramblingman,
you have cherry picked my comment. a .30 point net drop in Avg is a noticeable drop off a .20 point drop in Slg is still a drop off. further I said it was debatable that the drop off was significant but a drop off no less. I don’t consider someone with declining numbers as an “emerging leader,” and his free pass on his abysmal defense is ridiculous. He’s a total liability when any team decides to play small ball which is usually when the game is on the line. Explain to me how his power numbers haven’t dropped off.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
February 23rd, 2011
4:44 pm
scoots
numbletards? I know you meant numbtards but numbletards sounds funnier!
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:44 pm
“We have very good starting pitching, perhaps the best bullpen in baseball, all-star caliber players at about half the everyday positions, several very promising youngsters including THE game’s next superstar and, for the first time in twenty one years, someone with an IQ above that of a moldy turnip managing the team”
You see? You tried to say something positive and the troll in you came through. A for effort, though.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
February 23rd, 2011
4:46 pm
We have very good starting pitching, perhaps the best bullpen in baseball, all-star caliber players at about half the everyday positions, several very promising youngsters including THE game’s next superstar
Great way to be positive!
and, for the first time in twenty one years, someone with an IQ above that of a moldy turnip managing the team
oh lord!
ramblingman
February 23rd, 2011
4:46 pm
what of it, I quoted you. Can’t get less cherry picking than that. You made an outlandish statement and were called on it and have backtracked since and tried to change your tune.
Shaun
February 23rd, 2011
4:46 pm
Robert, Andruw had an on-base of .342 with the Braves. That’s pretty solid considering his position. His slugging was .497, which is excellent for a centerfielder. But if you want to talk about his whole career, yes, later on he wasn’t so good. But I thought we were talking about early in his career (your words, not mine).
ncscoots
February 23rd, 2011
4:46 pm
Crazy, “numbletard” is a long-held blogism, its author lost in the mists of time (like most of the good blogisms here).
Gone Viral
February 23rd, 2011
4:46 pm
“Now, if I can’t move a sane, rational, right-mided guy like that off the opinion, what chance do I have with the goobers and numbletards?”
I’m going to go right out and buy a t-shirt that says, “Not a Numbletard!”
If not for Charles Thomas, that entire season would have been a waste for me. I hated the Wainwright trade that much, but he turned me around by being such a wonderful story (like Brooks Conrad last year). And I vividly recall folks on the Falcons board telling me to stop being so alarmist about my immediate dislike of the Tex trade. Toward the end of last season, one of them posted here that they hated the trade from the beginning. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
MiaBchBravesFan
February 23rd, 2011
4:47 pm
I like “numbletards” too! Also, “Swamp Retard”!!!
Not a fan of “goobers” – the candy or the word.
ncscoots
February 23rd, 2011
4:49 pm
And I vividly recall folks on the Falcons board telling me to stop being so alarmist about my immediate dislike of the Tex trade. Toward the end of last season, one of them posted here that they hated the trade from the beginning. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Shoot, I don’t doubt that, brother. We call that brown hindsight: looking back through your…well, you know.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
4:50 pm
what of it?—
I posted some numbers for you, as well…Sorry I didn’t include your name at the top of it, but I couldn’t remember what it was and wasn’t quite in the mood to search through posts to find it.
BravePack
February 23rd, 2011
4:51 pm
AT
I downloaded it last night(took about 2 hours) and played one 4 inning game. I really like the new analog controls for the game. Most people are saying the pitching is easier to get used to then hitting. I think it’s very fun to play with the analog controls and the graphics are much better. Players are more life-like, stadiums are more detailed, and the sky progression from twilight to night is great. Visually the game looks much improved and looking forward to March 8th to be able to play as the Braves.
CB
February 23rd, 2011
4:53 pm
I looked up the definition of numletard on Google. There was no such word but it sent me to about 5 posts on the DOB blog and a poker site. LOL
ncscoots
February 23rd, 2011
4:53 pm
I’m going to go right out and buy a t-shirt that says, “Not a Numbletard!”
Maybe I should have some made up. Could be my version Lew’s Wurlitzers. Awarded to those with long-standing blog careers of non-numbletardation.
N8
February 23rd, 2011
4:54 pm
Shaun, you are correct in your “Wainwright for Hudson” comparison. Ultimately that might be what it became with the freed up money by not signing Drew.
But if you want to talk about what if’s or hypotheticals, one could say that perhaps they miss the playoffs without Drew, then proceed to STILL trade for Hudson and trade Wainwright off at a later date for a piece of the puzzle that might have remained a brave longer?
Or perhaps, the STILL go get Hudson, keep Wainwright as a cheap youngster and then when he’s an ACE (like he has been), they have zero reason to go sign Lowe.
It could go on and on for days, saying each move was a domino to the other.
But in the end, and in reality….. it was Wainwright for one year of JD Drew. If Drew was never traded for, there would have been no need to NOT re-sign him longterm to clear up money for Hudson…. he never would have been here to begin with.
ncscoots
February 23rd, 2011
4:55 pm
and a poker site
That figures, since Dentz was the All-Universe poster child for the word.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
4:55 pm
“No, I successfull refuted a claim that McCann’s power numbers suffered “considerable drop off” since the 2009 AS break ”
You did no such thing
Freeman Says Hey
February 23rd, 2011
4:57 pm
What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Freeman Says Hey
February 23rd, 2011
4:57 pm
It depends on whether you are talking about an African or European swallow.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
5:01 pm
PS, what of it?—
I don’t consider someone with declining numbers as an “emerging leader,”
His numbers are not declining! One semi-sub-par (by his standards) year doesn’t count as declining unless it turns into a trend…he had the eye issues and other things to deal with last season, and that’s all in the past now. He wants nothing more than to improve and get back to where he was. He works hard everyday. Guys respect the heck out of him. That’s what makes him a leader. It really doesn’t matter whether fans consider him the leader or not.
He’s a total liability when any team decides to play small ball which is usually when the game is on the line.
Last year his SB% went way up, and so did his CSlev. CSlev is the importance of the context in which a runner was caught—above 1 being above average pressure, below 1 being below average pressure. His CSlev was 1.65 last year, while his SBlev was 1.36. That (most likely…I’m no expert) means when he caught someone stealing, the pressure was .29 points greater than when someone stole of him and the pitchers.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
February 23rd, 2011
5:02 pm
Not a numbletard
but, maybe
And idiot
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
5:02 pm
Here’s the facts
In 2009 thru July McCann had 39 extra base hits in 342 plate appearances – or once every 8.8 PA’s
Since then, he has had 63 extra base hits in 781 plate appearances – or one every 12.4
If you dont consider that significant, you’re even more ignorant than you appear
N8
February 23rd, 2011
5:03 pm
I see too many people using the “Without JD Drew, the Braves don’t make the playoffs that year” excuse. They are probably right. But so what?
Without Adam Wainwright, the Braves failed to make the playoffs in 2007, 2008 and 2009 when some solid pitching in their rotation would have done wonders. If you REALLY want to get technical…
One could say that with Wainwright in the fold, JS never goes looking for pitching that he ultimately would never find and instead turned to Tex to bolster the lineup. How’s that for chain reaction?
As a Braves fan in hindsight, I would have much rather missed the playoffs the year JD Drew was a Brave and made the playoffs (or had a better shot at it) in the years that followed with Wainwright on the staff.
Hell. I don’t need hindsight to feel that way. Just ask ANY Braves fan that was against trading Hanson for Peavy. Or had no interest in moving Heyward, Freeman or now Delgado or Teheran to add a veteran piece of the puzzle.
What’s funny in all of this when it comes to trades and retaining the players traded for, is we trade a top pitching prospect for JD Drew, and fail to retain him.
This winter we trade Omar Infante and Mike Dunn for Dan Uggla and sign him long term. Baseball and the trades that are made is a crazy thing to predict and understand at times, huh?
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
5:04 pm
Robert Since then, he has had 63 extra base hits in 781 plate appearances
That’s odd…I came up with 75 XBH in 844 PA…
MFin04
February 23rd, 2011
5:05 pm
DOB – Have McLouth or McCann looked any better defensively, especially throwing?
David O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
5:06 pm
Baseball America sent out a “corrected” list of top 100, and Teheran moved from 6th to 5th.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
5:06 pm
McFann – I went from August – I think maybe you went from the break in early July
McCann had a very good July 2009 with 17 extra base hits in 111 appearances
I’d bet that’s the difference
I used baseball-reference.com splits pages for my data
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
5:07 pm
Yup…just did it again—75 XBH since the 2009 All-Star Break.
Did none of you read my 4:26?
Rodney Derrick
February 23rd, 2011
5:07 pm
Having just read through the blog, I was surprised that no one mentioned that this will be Wainwright’s second Tommy John surgery. Unless my (as of tomorrow) 64 year old brain is mistaken, he missed more than a year when he was a member of the Braves organization because of a Tommy John surgery. Now I may be mistaken and he might have already gone to the Cards and perhaps it was his shoulder. But two TJ surgeries is a lot. Hope he can return. If the Cy Young were awarded for the last two years combined, he would be the clear winner.
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
5:08 pm
Robert—
OK! I getcha…I thought that was strange…Makes sense, now.
I used baseball-reference.com splits pages for my data
Me, too!
McFann Ô Ô
February 23rd, 2011
5:09 pm
Yeah, he did have a good July, 2009…had a good July 2010, too…Maybe we should just make his calendar have about 7 Julys…
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
5:10 pm
So to be precise, we should be saying that McCann’s dropoff has been since August 2009
N8
February 23rd, 2011
5:10 pm
Wow. Teheran MUST be good. He jumps from 6th to 5th on a day when there was a 90 minute meeting. Imagine if the meeting would have been skipped. He might be #4.
Robert
February 23rd, 2011
5:10 pm
That would work!
All those in favor of 7 Julys a season for McCann say aye
Aye