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4,178 comments Add your comment
Murph
January 31st, 2011
3:02 pm
keeps coming back to the one that goes righty-lefty-righty-lefty pretty much through the lineup, with Prado hitting leadoff.
I asked specifically about Chipper, and Fredi said he’s in every lineup he’s made out, and he’s in the 3-hole in every one of them.
I’m not too worried about lineups being discussed in January. If it’s the end of March and his lineup variations with Chipper hitting 3rd have sucked all spring long and Fredi is still holding on to the notion that Chipper should hit 3rd I’ll be a bit more concerned.
Still a lot of plot lines that need to fall in place before the opening day story can be written.
Arkansas Transplant
January 31st, 2011
3:06 pm
DOB, was the turn out for Camp McD very good? or did they say?
Snotboogie
January 31st, 2011
3:10 pm
BAS- I try to make myself useful, that’s all.
Of course I could never aspire to provide stats like Brian from SC.Dude was crazy about them. He went missing around July/Aug. Was nice to have him around for sure. Need to stick his mug on a milk carton or something.
But scoots, if it helps at all, I’m an engineer too.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
3:12 pm
SB, I’m a fan, regardless of your vocation.
David O'Brien
January 31st, 2011
3:14 pm
Tommy Hanson has a full beard, trimmed it a little recently after having what he made sound like it was a Jamey Johnson-type monster beard till recently.
He knows he’ll have to cut it off as per Fredi’s rules.
Carroll’s writing a note about him, how he spent most of the winter back in California, in a rented place at Dana Point so he could work out daily at Boras’ high-tech fitness center with other clients of the uber-agent.
Bat Masterson
January 31st, 2011
3:16 pm
Scoots, next will be Bat posting that article about BMac doing yoga with all those 50 something women and having him tell us how hard Mac is working this offseason. _ keylargo
Hey, that was all I could find. Besides from what I understand yoga is kind of hard, probably doubly so for a guy nicknamed Heap! Who said the women were old? Photo bucket does not seem to like me today, otherwise I would post a couple of women doing yoga that had my heart rate up.
I’m trying to learn let sleeping dogs lie but that old shoot first and ask questions later muscle memory keeps tripping me up.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
3:18 pm
Not surprised that Freddi would start Chipper in the 3rd spot. Hopefully he produces. If he does not hopefully he moves him. No doubt about it this team would be at it’s best with Chipper being the Chipper of old in the 3 spot.
By the way I heard on the radio that Chipper is a last minute add for a Caravan appearance. My apologies Chipper!
Murph
January 31st, 2011
3:23 pm
so he could work out daily at Boras’ high-tech fitness center with other clients of the uber-agent.
That makes me really nervous for some reason. When I hear Boras’ name mentioned in the same sentence as a Brave I automatically picture the player in pinstripes and start preparing mentally for their departure.
I know Tommy is a Brave at least through 2015, but it still makes my stomach turn to think of Boras whispering in his ear that he could make more $$$ outside of Atlanta.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
3:29 pm
it still makes my stomach turn to think of Boras whispering in his ear that he could make more $$$ outside of Atlanta.
I got a thousand bucks that says some folks here will be ready to trade him long before 2015, and replace him with a prospect.
tiger297
January 31st, 2011
3:31 pm
scoots – be fair no way that happens its Tommy Hanson –
it will at least take 2 prospects or maybe a major league scrub/has been
Jeff R
January 31st, 2011
3:32 pm
N8 wrote:
“I’m not worried about the 120 or so games that Chipper will probably play in. Im worried about the other 40 or so games, and who Fredi will trot out in LF (and that’s assuming that McLouth is a viable option in CF)…. Mather? Hinske? Leave Prado in LF and put Conrad at 3B?”
It’s a good question and a bit of dilemma. It’s encouraging that the reports on Chipper are good, but we have to wait and see if Chipper’s knee holds up over the season and how he performs at 39. Might be more than 40 games that Chipper is MIA.
Everyone is sort of pumping up Mather as a real find – and maybe he is. But he hasn’t proven anything yet.
N8
January 31st, 2011
3:38 pm
“I got a thousand bucks that says some folks here will be ready to trade him long before 2015, and replace him with a prospect.” scoots
First of all, if Boras was your bookie….er….agent, he could have gotten you to wager much more than a thousand dollars.
Second of all, well DUH! By the time Hanson is ready to cash in at 20 million per season, he’ll be out of Wren’s and the Braves league, and if he isn’t good enough to command that money, he will be traded for somebody younger and cheaper.
I can see a scenario where his arbitration years are bought out at a reasonable rate for both sides. But with the young pitching the Braves seem to bring through the pipeline, and with guys like Heyward eventually needing to be paid, I can’t see any reasitic scenario that has a Boras client (either Hanson or Jurrjens) remaining Braves beyond their 6 years of service, if either of them are even remotely close to being Cy Young candidates at the time of their free agency.
I get you were making a joke. But lets get real here. LOL
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
3:39 pm
After seeing comments about the 8th spot in the order it makes me think they will miss Diaz. I loved it when Diaz was hitting 8th against a LH with a man on second and the pitcher trying to pitch around Diaz to get to the Braves pitcher. How many times did Diaz hit a ball a foot of the plate for a hit to drive in a run. It’s nice to have a free swinger in the 8th spot. Probably going to be Gonzalez.
Jeff R
January 31st, 2011
3:45 pm
Boras is going to leverage Hanson Jurrjens for every penny he can get – but that’s well down the road. Right now, I’d like to see both Hanson and Jurrjens pitch up to potential. If both pitchers do that then the Braves will contend.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
3:45 pm
By the time Hanson is ready to cash in at 20 million per season, he’ll be out of Wren’s and the Braves league
You mean, like Derek Lowe, LOL?
You’re just looking for a little spice in the bowl of sad, N8.
Lew
January 31st, 2011
3:48 pm
glord – Been through Wallingford – we’ve been through Rutland many times – it’s right on the other side of the mountin.
Charlotte Observer – There is a bit of culture shock coming up here from the south. Getting used to the cold took a few years after over 30 in Georgia and Florida.
Yes, Randolph is a nice little town (village, actually). Not lots of people, but there is a Chinese place (run by actual CHinese) right here in town. I can get some good BBQ, but have to swap Maple Syrup for good, southern grits – all I can get is Quaker gritvelopes – and that is basically unacceptable. I can get them if I go to Denny’s for breakfast, but………every now and then only.
I like the peace and quiet and the back yard view is unbelievably beautiful with lots of deer, trukeys, foxes and even some Peregrine Falcons. Can’t do much better than this, I do believe.
N8
January 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
Differnt scenarios scoots. My bowl isn’t sad at all. Only thing I’m sad about is Chipper in the 3-hole.
Braves were DESPERATE (with a bold faced, italics and larger font “D”) for pitching when Lowe was signed.
Under the scenario predicted (you know…. the one where Minor, Medlen, Beachy, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, etc…. are ready to contribute at about 1/10 the price), it’s not that difficult to see either one of Jurrjens or Hanson (maybe both), not making it to 2014-2015 as Braves.
But sure…. lump that little nugget of reality into my bowl of sad if it makes you feel better. I’m hungry.
If you don’t believe me, ask yourself why it is that the Braves didn’t enter the Carl Crawford sweepstakes? They clearly could use an outfielder. How about going after Rafael Soriano? With Wagner retiring, Wren would NEVER consider giving such and important role to a rookie, would he?
Had the Braves been sure that Hanson was ready, they NEVER would have signed Lowe to that contract. Never.
By the time Hanson and JJJ are ready to become free agents, they should know full well what they have in Medlen, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Beachy and Minor. If all of them suck? Then yeah…. Wren will probably pony up to keep Hanson and JJJ around.
Oh yeah, there’s that kid in RF who if he’s as good as everybody says he is, will be looking at a Pujols type of contract around that time as well. Let me ask you….
If Wren is forced to make a choice between signing a guy like Hanson or Heyward long-term in 4-5 years, which way do you think he’d lean?
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
3:57 pm
We may not like it, but Scott Boras’ job is to get the best deal possible for his client, and he does that VERY well. You would want the same done for you.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
3:58 pm
If Wren is forced to make a choice between signing a guy like Hanson or Heyward long-term in 4-5 years, which way do you think he’d lean?
I assume you mean that if one is an MVP and the other a Cy? Tough call. I always lean towards the position player, but knowing how the Braves value pitching? Don’t know.
Luckily, there’s absolutely nothing that would prevent the team from signing both.
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
3:59 pm
The current MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement expires on December 11, 2011.
Bat Masterson
January 31st, 2011
3:59 pm
If Heyward has a big year this year, don’t look for the Braves to wait 3 or 4 more to sign him to a long term deal.
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
4:02 pm
Scott Boras’ job is to get the best deal possible for his client, and he does that VERY well. You would want the same done for you.
Ward could be my agent if I played MLB. At least the first year.
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
I don’t expect a work stoppage this time – May be different for both NBA and NFL. We will see some changes in things like arbitration and free agency, but I believe both sides will see value in working things out. In the meantime, I can take comfort in the fact that there is no dark cloud looming ove the NHL anytime soon. Hockey teams and most players seem to value their fans more than other sports, BTW.
jeffrey d
January 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
He knows he’ll have to cut it off as per Fredi’s rules.
Whoa whoa whoa…Fredi has a no beard policy? I’m not sure I can get on board with that.
TennesseePaul
January 31st, 2011
4:05 pm
Hockey teams and most players seem to value their fans more than other sports, BTW.
What with the kids all over the ice at game time and the roll out of Marvel comics “Guardians”.. it is a rather massive appeal to kids in attempts to build up a larger fan base. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of impact this will have on the overall sport.
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
4:06 pm
jeffrey d – You don’t need to be on board, unless you plan to make the team during ST.
Robert
January 31st, 2011
4:06 pm
“Smoltz is the real prima donna self-entitled egocentric jerk, not Chipper”
I’m curious why you say that nolie.
From where I stand, over the last twenty Smoltzie was the only real gutsy player who lasted more than a season or two in a Braves uniform
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
I think jeffrey is still feeling a little remorse over stealing the bearded lady’s sandwich, is all.
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
Clearly hockey is trying to appeal to the kids – I wish baseball still felt that way.
Murph
January 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
We may not like it, but Scott Boras’ job is to get the best deal possible for his client, and he does that VERY well. You would want the same done for you.
Irrelevant given the fact that none of us are professional athletes. As a fan of a team, and a team with limited resources at that, I personally detest Boras and his slick marketing machine. By the time he’s done with JJJ he’ll have the world thinking he’s the second-coming of Halladay, even if JJJ goes 12-12 for the remainder of his days with Atlanta.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
Carroll’s writing a note about him, how he spent most of the winter back in California, in a rented place at Dana Point so he could work out daily at Boras’ high-tech fitness center with other clients of the uber-agent. (DOB Referring to Tommy Hanson)
I here they lift gold ingot bars in that gym. Boras likes to keep his prized clients “inspired”.
Robert
January 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
“we’ve been through Rutland many times ”
has bought some good antiques out of Rutland. Small world
Jeff R
January 31st, 2011
4:13 pm
“If Wren is forced to make a choice between signing a guy like Hanson or Heyward long-term in 4-5 years, which way do you think he’d lean?”
Who knows who will own the Braves when the time comes to decide between Hanson and Heyward? Perhaps the team payroll will expand then. Who knows?
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
4:14 pm
Murph presents the eternal fan dichotomy: “I want the players on my team to perform well, but not so well that they will be desired by other teams and perhaps leave. Or, at least, I don’t want them to leave until I’m ready to kick their used-up butts to the curb. Then, they can go anywhere, ’cause, by then, I’ll be whining about their last two years here, anyway.”
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
4:14 pm
I’ve been in that fitness center, and the offices too. I have a close relative that works for him. His primary job is preparation for arbitration.
I completely understand the attitude of Braves fans (me included), but that’s the system, and he is hired to do the job, which he does. If you needed a lawyer, you would want a bulldog. You would hope your union rep is a bulldog. If you needed an agent, you would want a bulldog. I’m not saying I like it, but Wren and Braves have been able to work with Boras as well as any team. I prefer that over the treatment we got from Furcal and his guy.
N8
January 31st, 2011
4:15 pm
“I assume you mean that if one is an MVP and the other a Cy? Tough call.” scoots
Yeah. That’s exactly what I meant. After all, if Hanson is a Cy Young candidate and Heyward turns into Frenchy, it wouldn’t be that tough of a decision.
You’re right though. With guys like Hudson, Chipper, Lowe, etc… coming off the books in the next couple of years, if Wren so chose to do so, he probably could sign them both.
Obviously way too soon to really know who’s in the long-term plans, and which guys will be allowed the arbitration process or cut loose.
I don’t think anybody would have predicted during their rookie campaigns that both KJ and Marcus Giles would eventually be DFA’d rather than traded. A lot could happen with guys like Kimbrel and Venters and even Freeman in the next few years.
One thing that I think is a safe assumption though, is that the trio of Hanson, Heyward and Jurrjens will not be together beyond 2015. One of Jurrjens and Hanson is sure to go at some point. Hold on, I take that back. I guess I could see an unfortunate scenario where they are reunited in pin-stripes.
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
4:16 pm
Scoots – Very well said. This blog is great, but sometimes needs a reality check.
RC
January 31st, 2011
4:16 pm
“If Wren is forced to make a choice between signing a guy like Hanson or Heyward long-term in 4-5 years, which way do you think he’d lean?”
I think it all depends on how much it costs for each. If they are seeking identical money and years? Heyward without question. But what if Hanson is willing to sign for 2 fewer years and 1/2 the annual contract of Heyward? Then you’ve probably got to consider taking Hanson. Both are incredibly important for the future of the team, but if you are asking how I think is more important, the answer is easily Heyward. But it all comes down to cost.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:19 pm
Cy Youngs and MVP’s for two guys who’ve been on the scene for about an hour. And you guys are worried about Boras over hyping his guys? Talk about the kettle and all.
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
4:19 pm
“If Wren is forced to make a choice between signing a guy like Hanson or Heyward long-term in 4-5 years, which way do you think he’d lean?”
Unless we have some outfielders I haven’t heard about coming up, I would side with Heyward. Nine of the top 11 prospects are pitchers.
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
4:21 pm
If you are a building contractor or a real estate broker, you try to negotiate the best terms for yourself or your client. What do you do for a living, Murph? Don’t you wish to get the best terms and most inclome you can?
Murph
January 31st, 2011
4:22 pm
I don’t really whine about anybody scoots, other than maybe McLouth. Also, I hope everyone performs well, but if you think the Boras machine won’t play some part in players leaving who might otherwise stay, you’re kidding yourself.
If the market is average to slim for SP in the years that JJJ and Hanson become FA’s, I can guarantee you they will get well beyond their actual worth in no small part due to Boras… enough to most likely price those 2 right out of the Braves’ range. Supply and demand will dictate the starting point, but Boras will multiply that number by 2 and somehow manage to get it.
He’ll make a mediocre JJJ look like Cy Young, and as we’ve seen this year, the hype machine can work in mysterious ways.
Nick
January 31st, 2011
4:24 pm
I watched that movie ‘Due Date’ last night. Funny thing, the entire movie Robert Downey Jr. lugs a Atl Braves rally monkey around.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:26 pm
The players union has created a completely open market for themselves as unbalanced as it is between teams and the agents play that market well. Boras is very, very good at it. Probably the best. He’s willing to say and do things others were not. That’s attracted the best clients which makes him even more succesful. Don’t be pissed at him – it’s the system that’s uneven not his tactics.
Murph
January 31st, 2011
4:29 pm
Don’t you wish to get the best terms and most inclome you can?
Obviously. You are missing my point. I don’t dislike Boras because he does a good job, I dislike Boras because he does a good job, and the good job he does has the potential to weaken my favorite team in the process.
I lose out on jobs and contracts because my company can’t compromise its bottom line just for the sake of having the work. Doesn’t mean I have to be happy for the company giving out the work or the competitor that gets the work when a deal is reached.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
4:31 pm
Murph, I wasn’t directing that joke at you, my friend. I was just using your post as the takeoff point, LOL.
Me, I’m a fan of Boras. I like excellence, in any field, and he is just about the best at what he does, by most accounts. Besides, you guys remember how this works, right? The agent works for the player, not the other way around? Players and GMs don’t walk around with a Boras gun at their head, while being made to watch film of their families being held hostage.
Anybody who has ever been in business knows that deals don’t get signed unless both parties think they are getting good value. That’s why they are called “deals”.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:32 pm
Eject Murph! For the love of god EJECT!!!!
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:34 pm
ncscoots- I’m not sure if this hurts or helps you but we’re completely aligned regarding Mr. Boras. I admire what he’s achieved.
N8
January 31st, 2011
4:35 pm
scoots, here’s my take on your 4:14 (which was awesome btw).
I want my team to provide me with a competitive, entertaining team to wach and root for, with a reasonable chance to win every time they step on the field.
I want the GM to sign the players to team friendly contracts that doesn’t back the team (or himself as the GM of said team), into the proverbial corner. At the same time, players should be well compensated for the butts they put in the seats, and while some would like them to be “held accountable” for their play on the field, I prefer that they simply have to earn their jobs and lineup spots based on current performances, rather than the possibility of past glory returning.
Then when said players might become to expensive to keep, I hope that there are reasonable replacements ready to take their spots. Or in the very least, another surplus of talent on the team that can be used to trade for a replacement.
I’ll use the Greg Maddux “accepting arbitration” case as an example.
I remember reading the internet headline while at work that stated Maddux and Braves agree to one year deal, and pumping my fist saying “yeah!”. It was awesome, Maddux was going to pitch one more year in Atlanta. After losing Glavine before that, that was good news.
Then the ramifications of that situation began to unfold.
In the end, getting Johnny Estrada for Millwood was a pretty good trade by JS. Everybody and their mother new the Braves HAD TO unload Millwood to make room for Maddux’s one year deal.
Certainly, JS could have gotten more for Millwod under different circumstances. Maddux (and Boras) backed JS into a corner. Granted, a corner that he set himself up to be backed into. But into a corner none the less.
Now that was an extreme case. Also a different GM. Also a fan-favorite, HOF local icon. Also a super-uber agent. Many things played into that scneario. The least of which was JS assuming that Maddux would leave, he’d be freed of that contract AND get draft picks.
In general, I’ve been very pleased at the manner in which Wren has ran this team since he took over. A couple of stinker contracts (KK and Nate), and a couple of real gems (trading for Jurrjens and not only choosing Hudson over Vazquez, but locking Hudson up). The rest of the decisions were really pretty easier. Not always popular at the time (Glavine and Smoltz), but in the end the right calls on both scenarios.
I think this 25 man roster is heading in the right direction.
It’s one thing for the Royals to have the #1 overall farm system in Baseball America’s ranking system. They haven’t had a competitive season in a while and have nowhere to go but up.
But to have the Braves young roster, having just won the NL Wild Card and top that off with having the #3 overall ranked system? That’s a good sign.
Of course the NL East champion Phillies aren’t far behind us in the rankings, which is kind of depressing. LOL.
But considering the prospects that were drained from the system to trade for Tex, Wren has done a nice job of filling that cupboard back up the past few years.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:35 pm
BTW ncscoots- were you the one who told me way back when you were involved in commodity markets etc…?
Shaun
January 31st, 2011
4:37 pm
N8, I would bet all my fortune than Heyward does not turn out to be Frenchy, barring injury. The only way Heyward is derailed is by injury, and that’s more likely with Hanson.
Francoeur in his first 623 PA: .272/.299/.481 with 18 walks and 125 strikeouts, ages 21-22
Heyward in his first 623 PA: .277/.393 /.456 with 91 walks and 128 strikeouts, ages 20-21
That’s a difference of 73 walks plus a slightly better batting average and a very respectable slugging percentage for a 20-year-old still likely to get stronger. When a 20-21 year old shows that much command of the strikezone at the major league level along with the other impressive skills, that’s a sign that he’s a superstar in the making, again, barring injury of course.
I think the Braves will do everything to keep both Hanson and Heyward in uniform for the duration of their careers, even if it means taking a hit in other areas. The good thing is those two players are likely to be underpaid for a few more years relative to what equally-productive veterans would make.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
4:40 pm
Lew I have spent some time in RAndolph as well. Spent some time one summer at Vermont Tech at a camp in high school. Also used to play basketball and soccer against Randolph high growing up. Pretty town as I remember it.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
4:40 pm
But considering the prospects that were drained from the system to trade for Tex, Wren has done a nice job of filling that cupboard back up the past few years.
Yeah, pretty tough job, replacing Matt Harrison and Beau Jones. Give the man some credit.
N8
January 31st, 2011
4:41 pm
“Cy Youngs and MVP’s for two guys who’ve been on the scene for about an hour. And you guys are worried about Boras over hyping his guys? Talk about the kettle and all.” Anders
Agreed on Heyward. All the tools, all the hype… all the rage. Have to wait and see if he’s the real deal (long term), I think he is, as do most (even those who don’t root for the Braves).
But Hanson? Come on man. Look at the numbers and look at the run support. The guy’s for real. Maybe he gets hurt. Maybe he doesn’t. But he can pitch and get guys out at this level and likely will only get better.
But the point of the conversation wasn’t about Boras over-hyping them (that’s something captain obvious would talk about). It’s about once a player is put into that category where the Boras hype can unfold in a hurry, will they be out of the Braves price range? And if they both fall into that category, which one would Wren keep (if he could only keep one)?
Believe us. We’re well aware of young RF who get all the hype and don’t pan out. Who knows? If Heyward eventually busts, maybe we can dump him off on the Mets too?
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:43 pm
I think the Braves will do everything to keep both Hanson and Heyward in uniform for the duration of their careers, even if it means taking a hit in other areas. (Shaun)
When did these two turn into Bob Gibson and Willie Mays? They certainly both show great promise but come on – we’ve seen nothing at the MLB level that warrants this kind of thought yet. I mean, arent you getting just a tad ahead of yourselves talking lifetime contracts etc ?
N8
January 31st, 2011
4:44 pm
Shaun, the Heyward/Frenchy comparison was a joke. I agree with you. Just playing devil’s advocate so I don’t get accused of casting my HOF vote for Heyward just yet. Apparently that little tidbit of information went right over Anders’ head? LOL.
scoots Funny. But I’d like to think that the two all-stars and the AL ROY were the bigger “picture” of that deal. But, I’m catchin’ your “thick” sarcasm you’re laying on me.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:44 pm
Believe us. We’re well aware of young RF who get all the hype and don’t pan out. Who knows? If Heyward eventually busts, maybe we can dump him off on the Mets too? (N8)
Sure. The Mets will send Ryan Church Atlanta’s way – again! {:
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
4:47 pm
N8, we can leave that there, I think, LOL. I’d prefer not to rehash that particular trade, while I still have a pulse.
Shaun
January 31st, 2011
4:48 pm
Anders, I think that’s more the case with Hanson because pitching is just so unpredictable. With Heyward, the odds that he doesn’t become a superstar are probably pretty slim.
Murph
January 31st, 2011
4:49 pm
When I look at Boras I get filled with the same “I want to punch you in the face” feeling I used to get when looking at George Steinbrenner.
I fully understand that the Borases and Steinbrenners of the world are simply working a system that allows them to do what they do, but that doesn’t mean I have to salute them and thank them for it.
When a rancher doesn’t fence in his land and all of his cows are killed by rabid grizzly bears, instead of holding the rancher responsible for not taking the proper precautions there’s a big posse put together and they ride out and kill every grizzly bear in sight. It’s human nature.
In other words, I’m sitting here hoping to get a lovely steak but instead know that I’ll be getting lasagna that’s full of nasty, gristly grizzly bear meat and I’m not very happy about it, but I’ll eat it anyways because it’s all that I’ve got. I’ve got someone telling me to happy about it, another person telling me it’s actually really good, but it’s hard to get excited about grizzly lasagna when you’ve had your heart set on a big steak all day.
njbraves
January 31st, 2011
4:50 pm
Anders….Just because your team sucks, and has no young talent to speak of, doesn’t mean you have to take shots at the Braves. I’m sure a rotation led by Pelfrey and RA Dickey will do just fine this season.
ncscoots
January 31st, 2011
4:51 pm
but it’s hard to get excited about grizzly lasagna when you’ve had your heart set on a big steak all day.
Yeah, well, but you do have to consider this, Murph:
Coulda been deer.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:52 pm
I assume you mean that if one is an MVP and the other a Cy? Tough call. I always lean towards the position player, but knowing how the Braves value pitching? Don’t know. Ncscoots)
Hey N8 – this was the post I was talking about not yours. I’ve yet to read anything from you that got over my head. I will admit to nodding off half way through your 4:35 post so if you want to count that- ok.
N8
January 31st, 2011
4:52 pm
Agreed scoots. Eventually, even I have to move on.
Here’s a question for you (or anybody), since I’m too lazy to look it up this second. Are the “young guns” that are on the way (Delgado and Teheran) guys that were drafted under Wren’s “watch”. Or were they drafted in JS’s last couple of years?
Obviously Vizcaino was a Wren trade. Heyward was JS’s last #1 draft pick. Minor is all Wren.
I guess if those two guys were drafted by JS, then the book is still out on Wren for now.
That being said, I give him a LOT of credit for hanging on to those young guys regardless of who drafted them.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
4:53 pm
Anders I don’t think it’s a stretch to think a 23 year old pitcher with career numbers of a 3.16 ERA and almost 3 to 1 K to BB rate could win a Cy some day.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
4:54 pm
Just because your team sucks, and has no young talent to speak of, doesn’t mean you have to take shots at the Braves. I’m sure a rotation led by Pelfrey and RA Dickey will do just fine this season. (njbraves)
I have two words for you – NEW JERSEY.
N8
January 31st, 2011
4:54 pm
Fair enough Anders. Even though scoot’s post you’re referring to, was a response to me and was a direct “assumption” on his part of what I meant. So, that’s why I lumped myself into that converstation.
As for Ryan Church? With McLouth out in CF, Church just might be the 3rd best hitting OF on the Braves if he was on our roster.
T for Texas
January 31st, 2011
4:55 pm
I mean, arent you getting just a tad ahead of yourselves talking lifetime contracts etc ?
As much as I am sold on Heyward especially, the raw tools plus the plate discipline make a tough to beat combo, I tend to agree with you Anders. I was a little shocked at the ESPN article regarding The Value of Buster Posey and Jason Heyward that suggested locking The Kid up with a ten year contract immediately. Although I think it would be wise to try to sign him to a contract similar to the one Mac signed pre-arb.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:01 pm
N8 – Appreciate you stepping up.
Bat Masterson
January 31st, 2011
5:02 pm
instead of holding the rancher responsible for not taking the proper precautions there’s a big posse put together and they ride out and kill every grizzly bear in sight _ Murph
Posse? No need for a posse, “Bear Claw” Chris Lapp to hunt ‘em and Jeremiah Johnson to skin ‘em.
njbraves
January 31st, 2011
5:03 pm
Anders…There you go again. Your baseball team is a mess, don’t take that out on me. I’m sure the Wilpon’s will find someone dumb enough to fork over $250 million so they can get themselves out of their financial situation. Classy bunch you’ve got running that team….and good baseball people too. You’re all set up for the future.
TennesseePaul
January 31st, 2011
5:05 pm
Payne: The only way Heyward is derailed is by injury, and that’s more likely with Hanson.
I’d agree based on the position they play, but Heyward has had a history through his pro-career of injuries. Nothing major… but there are those little nagging ones which have seemed to crop up in his case… more than I remember with other players. Hopefully those are all flukes which he’ll distance himself from and not habitual.
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
5:08 pm
I’m sure a rotation led by Pelfrey and RA Dickey will do just fine this season.
Anders, I’m sure it was just an oversight that NJBrave left out Oliver Perez. You know, the one the Mets paid $12M a year for after Lowe signed with the Braves.
njbraves
January 31st, 2011
5:11 pm
keylargo…Great point. I’m pretty sure they are going to use him as a lefty specialist this year. That should be fun to watch. Money well spent.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
5:12 pm
Oliver Perez. The contract that makes Derek Lowe smile every day.
TennesseePaul
January 31st, 2011
5:13 pm
That should be fun to watch. Money well spent.
Speaking of money well spent, you could go to Gwinnett and watch a $7M imported righty in AAA.
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
5:14 pm
I’m pretty sure they are going to use him as a lefty specialist this year.
What a great idea! Sort of like their own JoJo Reyes.
njbraves
January 31st, 2011
5:17 pm
TennesseePaul…Atta boy…take shots at your own team when we’re all having some fun with Anders and his Mets. Good idea.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
5:17 pm
TennesseePaul – Yes but I believe the Mets fans will get a chance to watch Oliver pitch a couple of years in AAA.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:17 pm
How’s KKK doing? You know, since we’re discussing contracts and all.
Oh yeah and Lowe still has $30 mil to go. You just might have some pain left in that bloated deal as well.
Patience.
MFin04
January 31st, 2011
5:17 pm
I’d take Heyward long term over Hanson any day of the week. I’m more of a Jurrjens guy then a Hanson guy tho.
And I like Chipper in the 2 spot, but I wonder how much of a disadvantage that is for Heyward’s speed if Chipper is on in front of him? I expect Heyward to hit for more power than Chipper though. It really is a toss up, but I’d rather see Chipper hitting 2nd and Heyward 3rd.
Murph
January 31st, 2011
5:17 pm
they are going to use him as a lefty specialist this year.
So, Mr. Perez, can you tell me more about yourself?
Well, I’m a lefty and I specialize in giving up lots of runs and losing games.
Ok, so I’ll put that down as a lefty specialist. Anything else?
Did I mention I’d be willing to work for under $15mil per season?
Oh, well, ok. Mrs Wilpon, can you please bring in the standard contract form?
Mr. Matt
January 31st, 2011
5:18 pm
So Fredi has a no beard rule?
nolie
January 31st, 2011
5:23 pm
. How would the Braves line up look with Martin at 3B and a guy hitting 25 and driving in 85 runs in LF? glord
the problem being that we don’t have that guy for LF.
On one hand you say you realize that the extension was a no brainer and then turn around and whine about it. Just more hind sight bull-oney.
You also overvalue counting stats and undervalue his continued ability to get on base.
Bay Area Steve
January 31st, 2011
5:23 pm
The more they change, the more they stay the same.
Welcome back, Anders.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:26 pm
So Fredi has a no beard rule? (Mr. Matt)
Yes, apparently it’s right under the Don’t piss Chipper off by even thinking about batting him anywhere but 3rd no matter how old and brittle he has become rule.
Times they are a changing. Well maybe not, unless Chipper says they are.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:26 pm
What up BAS?
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:28 pm
Hey BAS- we’re crushing Ollie Perez today. Come on in and get a kick in. Clever stuff. Take a look at Murph’s 5:17. Dude’s definetly got mad comedy skills. I’m sure he peed himself laughing so hard at that master piece.
VaBravesFan
January 31st, 2011
5:31 pm
If all goes as planned I’d think Hanson would be our ACE top pitcher and Heyward would be our best position player and both would be locked up in Atlanta for a very long time. Heyward is in line to be the next face of the Braves after Chipper retire’s if everything works out.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:34 pm
VaBravesFan – Wait. You guys plan? I think I see the problem now.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
5:35 pm
Berkman is at least 4 years younger than Chipper so his last 7 years were the prime of his career and they were the back end of Chippers. With that age advantage how could it surprise that Berkman was better? But it is a straw comparison because of the differences,
Plus unless it was an outlier, last season at 34 was a crappy year for him. If he does not bounce back a good bit he will be losing value at an early age.
"Almost There" P-Town Brave ©
January 31st, 2011
5:36 pm
WOW!
BMac is gonna look a whole lot different come April…
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
5:37 pm
Oh yeah and Lowe still has $30 mil to go. You just might have some pain left in that bloated deal as well.
Yeah, Ol Derek makes $15M a year. He won 16 games last year so that means he cost the Braves $938,000 for every win.
Oliver Perez makes $12M a year. Last year he was off a tad and didn’t win any. How much does a win cost when you don’t win any? Are there any FINANCIAL WIZZARDS online who can explain this? ANDERS?
Robert
January 31st, 2011
5:39 pm
“Yeah. That’s exactly what I meant. After all, if Hanson is a Cy Young candidate and Heyward turns into Frenchy, it wouldn’t be that tough of a decision”
Heyward will not turn into Frenchy, because has a clue about the strike zone.
As a 21 and 22 year old, Francoeur had K/BB ratios upwards of 5 to 1. That is rank awful. He walked 23 times in 686 plate appearances. That’s inexcusable. The best it’s ever gotten has been just under 3 to 1
Heyward had a K/B of about 4 to 3 – as a 20 year old – That’s pretyy good for any age – and awesome for a rookie so young
Jeff Francoeur is a guy who has enough raw tools to have been a stud in high school, and to have gotten to the bigs, where he had brief success until major league pitchers realized he would oblige them in getting himself out
Jason Heyward is a guy whose tools are already being developed into serious skills – and he is barely a man yet
Comparing Fenchy to Heyward is like comparing ……… you know where I was going without me having to say it
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:41 pm
Keylargo- I wasn’t comparing Perez to Lowe, I was just saying you’re only halfway home on the Lowe $60 mil deal.
Perez is a sunk cost for the Mets. Gone. Never to be seen again. But that pain is over after next season -thankfully (for me)
Robert
January 31st, 2011
5:41 pm
“I want my team to provide me with a competitive, entertaining team to wach and root for, with a reasonable chance to win every time they step on the field. ”
and for the first time in 20 years, we’re gonna have that
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:44 pm
Robert – do they track splits on K/BB through the season? If so, how did Heyward track as the pitchers got to know him?
VaBravesFan
January 31st, 2011
5:44 pm
Anders
How’s there a problem? The Braves are dong great, we field a winning ballclub, manage the payroll the right way and have a great minor league system. The Mets have none of that.
Anders
January 31st, 2011
5:45 pm
VaBravesFan- That was a joke – about my Mets. Get it now?
VaBravesFan
January 31st, 2011
5:48 pm
Anders
ohhh ok lol, its been a very long day…