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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,178 comments Add your comment
Trey
January 30th, 2011
10:47 pm
Nolie, what about Nick, Coach and Le*tz?
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
10:48 pm
Trey—
Never! Even if we had quails, I wouldn’t…
Tom O'Hawke
January 30th, 2011
10:48 pm
nolie & richbrave
I don’t have anything recorded by any of those artists. If I’ve heard any of their music, it would be from the radio (which I have on almost 24-7), I’ll put it on my “check-out-this list”.
nolie, you can add me to the list of ones driven away from the blog during games. It’s not just Mitchell though, but he is a large factor.
richbrave
January 30th, 2011
10:49 pm
McFANN:
Thanx, cute pic, and the businesss end too, how appropriate.
Trey
January 30th, 2011
10:49 pm
McFann, sure ya wouldn’t.
nolie
January 30th, 2011
10:51 pm
guy can post 100 times in one game and every single one of them is hysterically negative
richbrave
January 30th, 2011
10:52 pm
Deodato did the 2001 – A space Odyssey Theme.
Trey
January 30th, 2011
10:52 pm
Lol, I know Nolie. I’m sorry but I got a huge kick out of yours and others responses about Mitchell when I called him relatively calm.
Tom O'Hawke
January 30th, 2011
10:56 pm
McFann
I loved that video of Beggar Ben eating out of your hand. Have you ever been able to do that with any others?
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:00 pm
McFann
Has Beggar Ben returned?
Glord1
January 30th, 2011
11:00 pm
Nolie – it’s just my opinion about Chipper and I won’t go into all the reasons I feel he is a Prima Donna. I will say that I feel he is the softest super star I have ever seen. Or I should say part time super star. He has gotten 500 ABs only once in the last 7 years. That goes back to when he was 32 years old. He has been questions by teammates over this and has been quoted as saying I play myself into shape in Spring training instead of training in the off season.
As he has gotten older he has been less productive but has not ever been a real leader. When Smoltz moved on it left a huge leadership void. I believe he has been as coddled as any star in baseball in a long time. He has also been mostly aloof with the fans instead of putting himself out there as the face of the Braves by more community involvement. I won’t go into anything personal I have heard.
He was a great player especially his first 9 years. He also has taken less money at times and was very unselfish to make the move to left so like most people he can’t be painted with a broad brush. He has been simply one of the best players to ever wear a Braves uniform.
For me I see a guy that bought into his own hype and would have been crucified for some things both on and off the field if he played in a bigger market. I will always cheer for him wearing a Braves uniform but as far as guys I root for I will take the Prados, Hudsons and the McCanns of the world. Great players and people.
richbrave
January 30th, 2011
11:04 pm
Heard the HOOT OWL outside my window. Time to drift off once again. NYTOL.
Venice Jim
January 30th, 2011
11:04 pm
Of course, I remember some quasi-hysterical posts from Trey during games when he was still a neophyte on the blog…
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:05 pm
McFann
I read your 10:26 post and am amazed. By the way, I just purchased an Audobon clock and it includes the sound of a different bird on each hour. 7 O’Clock is the Carolina Wren. Now, do I need to purchase another clock that doesn’t work to act as the dummy?
Trey
January 30th, 2011
11:06 pm
VJ, I was kind of a douche wasn’t I? Well, you gotta think I have grown up a little bit since joining the blog a little over a year ago.
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:06 pm
‘Nite richbrave
Venice Jim
January 30th, 2011
11:07 pm
Trey – perhaps we need to wait until the games start back up…
Tom O'Hawke
January 30th, 2011
11:08 pm
nolie
You didn’t make any “Deodato” suggestions. I’m listening to “2001 Space Odyssey”. “Moonlight Serenade” is on deck. Are they good representations?
Trey
January 30th, 2011
11:10 pm
VJ, nah. I have calmed down during the season and apparently became too “positive” of a blogger like Brava.
Trey
January 30th, 2011
11:11 pm
Of course, she and Jerry always went at it.
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
11:16 pm
richbrave the businesss end too, how appropriate.
Aw…what’s that supposed to mean?
Heard the HOOT OWL outside my window.
How fun!
Trey—
My word of honor!
Tom O’Hawke Have you ever been able to do that with any others?
Yes! Jenny Girl was the first outside bird I ever trained (she was also a Carolina Wren). She didn’t beg, though—she came when I called her, which was a lot of fun! I’d go out in the morning and call, “Jenny Girl!” and pretty soon, there she was! She ate from my hand almost every day from February 18th, 2004 to November 21st, 2007. Sadly we never got a video of her. I do have a couple photos of here eating from my hand. I’ll try to remember to post them on PhotoBucket tomorrow. Our internet’s being a real butt, so it’s a little late to try it tonight…
But here’s a link to photos from her final nest with us. She and her mate, Boogity, had three nests in our yard—one in 2004, and two in 2005. For this last nest, Jenny Girl was very nice and let me get up close and take lots of pictures, but she did get impatient if she came back from her break and I was still there. She’d kind of look at me like, “OK, that’s long enough! I have to get back in there!”
So sweet…but strict!
haggard—
He came the other day when my Sister was home alone, and she got to feed him! Haven’t seen him since, but the weather’s been so nice this weekend, I guess he didn’t have much use for us…
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
11:19 pm
haggard—
They’re amazing little birds!
I just purchased an Audobon clock and it includes the sound of a different bird on each hour. 7 O’Clock is the Carolina Wren.
Perfect! That’s what time Braves games tend to start—my two favorites!
Now, do I need to purchase another clock that doesn’t work to act as the dummy?
Hahahaha! Yeah, fool all those clock-watchers…
BravesFanChris26
January 30th, 2011
11:20 pm
To all the wrestling fans, Booker T & Diesel came back to Royal Rumble tonight
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:21 pm
McFann
I was beginning to get worried about Beggar Ben and am sorry you missed him; but am glas sis was there to “fill in”.
Trey
January 30th, 2011
11:22 pm
Snap, McFann pulled an N8 post.
Tom O'Hawke
January 30th, 2011
11:29 pm
I think being able to feed wild animals out of your hand is cool stuff, McFann. I’ve fed chipmunks, squirrels, and raccoons, and fish. But never any birds. Although, I’ve never really tried either. Maybe I’ll give that a shot when I got to my summer place. I’ve read where certain birds are more apt to be trained that way than others. I’ll stay away from the hawks and eagles.
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
11:30 pm
haggard—
We were getting worried, too! He’s no Spring-Wrennie anymore—I mean, he’s getting up there in Wren-years, pushing 5 at least. Yeah, I’m glad Sis was there, too. I hate to think of the poor baby looking in to an empty house…
Trey—
Oh, I’m really sorry—I do that sometimes! When I start in on my Wrennies, well…
David O'Brien
January 30th, 2011
11:30 pm
Alejandro Escovedo rocked the sold-out house for two hours tonight at Eddie’s Attic. What a great singer/songwriter and guitarist — not to mention survivor — the man is, and his band was outstanding. Blazing set, as loud and hard as I’ve seen Escovedo play.
http://twitpic.com/3v1em3
Venice Jim
January 30th, 2011
11:31 pm
I’ve fed cab…
nolie
January 30th, 2011
11:32 pm
Smoltz is the real prima donna self-entitled egocentric jerk, not Chipper
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:33 pm
Apparently VJ seems to think I am a wild animal…hope he enjoys the sofa tonight while my puppy and I enjoy the bed
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:33 pm
McFann
I always like returning to the pictures and have a couple of questions. 1–Where did the name “Boogity” originate? ( I’ve heard country musician Jerry Reed use the term, as well as NASCAR’s Darrell Waltrip), and ,2–You mentioned that “Jenny Girl” passed away in 2007. How lond do Carolian Wrens live?
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
11:35 pm
Tom O’Hawke—
Ha! Yeah, stay away from the birds of prey—they might want your fingers!
I know chickadees are a common hand-feeder…fromer…um…I’ve fed a couple of them. Pine Warblers, at least ours, are pretty friendly, too. I’ve also fed a couple Nuthatches (talk about cuties!). I think Wrennies cann be a little tricky, but if they know you and know you provide the food, they should go for it—like I said, they’re smart! But they cann be shy…just gotta be sure they see you with the food quite often!
I’ve never fed any mammals right from the hand…that’s fun!
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:36 pm
But cab, he does feed you well, right?
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:38 pm
haggard-
Yes he does
I’ve never fed any mammals right from the hand…that’s fun!
McFann-
It’s an interesting experience…very cool and yet a little…almost creepy
nolie
January 30th, 2011
11:38 pm
never gave Mr Ed an apple?
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
11:40 pm
haggard—
I actually got the name “Boogity” from a customer at the bird-food store we went to years ago—he called Wrens “Boogity Birds”. Never actually met the man, but the store owner told us stories…So I just kind took the name—it totally fits!
I read somewhere that the average lifespan for a wild Carolina Wren is 6 years. I’m guessing Jenny Girl passed away—I don’t think other Wrennies could drive her away. Though we think Boogity, who passed in March, 2006, might have been killed by an intruder Wren…not completely sure, though. I found his body, but not Jenny Girl’s, which still makes me kinda sad—couldn’t have a funeral for my best Wrennie.
McFann O O
January 30th, 2011
11:42 pm
cabravesfan—
Haha! I cann understand that!
They cann be creepy…
nolie—
No…
Would have loved too—Wilbur would have totally had to be around as well. 
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:43 pm
McFann-
watching a deer take a whole plum, suck it in, work it around it’s mouth and then spit out the pit is just weird
Tom O'Hawke
January 30th, 2011
11:44 pm
I’ve fed cab…
Why is it, no matter how many times I yell out, “VJ, I’m hungry”, nothing ever happens? The only way I seem to be able to get fed is to go to the kitchen and do it myself.
How come VJ doesn’t feed me? Is it a west coast thing? Maybe it’s an anatomical thing. Yeah, that’s probably it, it’s anatomical. I’m too tall.
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:45 pm
that is, watching a deer take the plum from my hand…
Ward
January 30th, 2011
11:46 pm
Check out The U.S.A. artic. on the Braves. Written by Seth Livingstone. Great artic., and well explained……
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:47 pm
Tom-
He’s old…he can’t hear you
Or maybe you just don’t have what it takes to attract his attention 
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:47 pm
and now he’s gonna yell at me…
Ward
January 30th, 2011
11:48 pm
Cab, Make sure the deer isn’t Murph! Ha! Ha! Ha small joke…..
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:49 pm
McFann
Those wrens seem to love their territory and it sounds as if they can be quite mean. One of the meanest I’ve seen up on the farm is a redbird. In fact, I once sat motionless–with a video camera–inside a pickup truck and watched as one worked himself to exhaustion as he pecked at his own image in the truck mirror, about a foot and a half away. And, yes, the window was rolled up !
cabravesfan
January 30th, 2011
11:49 pm
ward-
I’m pretty sure it was a girl deer
Trey
January 30th, 2011
11:52 pm
Ward your comments are hilarious.
Glord1
January 30th, 2011
11:53 pm
Nolie – maybe Smoltz did have a big ego. Not going to argue that but there are two things you can say about Smoltz that you can’t say about Chipper. 1. He had a very high pain tolerance and played hurt an awful lot. His arm had to be blown up for him to be out. His last year when they shut him down the surgeon who fixed his elbow and shoulder said he could not believe he had been pitching.
2. He was in incredible shape and took his fitness very seriously.
Again I know everyone loves Chipper but I can’t wait till they can reinvest that salary for some better production.
nolie
January 30th, 2011
11:53 pm
prolly caint afford to feed CAB & you both and she’s more dangerous
Ward
January 30th, 2011
11:53 pm
Trey: Had to slip that one in…..
Glord1
January 30th, 2011
11:54 pm
What’s everyones over under on Freemans performance? I saw he hit 15 bombs, drives in 68 and hits .270. Then improves on it in 2012.
Tom O'Hawke
January 30th, 2011
11:55 pm
and now he’s gonna yell at me…
Don’t worry about it, cabravesfan. He already fed you. And, like you said he’s old, by the time you’re hungry again, he will have forgotten.
David O'Brien
January 30th, 2011
11:56 pm
A Venezuela PR guy who works in baseball posted this on Twitter tonight: “The Oriental Caribes, managed by Braves alum Julio Franco, is about to become champion in Venezuela’s winter ball”
Good to hear about old Julio, carving a new career as manager (he started out managing in rookie ball in Mets organization).
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:58 pm
Speaking of Chipper: Is he the biggest prize on the want list this year? If he could manage a season of .290/.380/.480 with 25 HR and 85 RBI, while playing 135 games, would that solve the biggest need facing the Braves?
haggard
January 30th, 2011
11:59 pm
“by the time you’re hungry again, he will have forgotten”-Tom O’Hawke
That’s good ! LOL
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
12:00 am
Haggard if Chipper puts up those numbers the Braves are going to be really good. I love to see one more good year in him.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:03 am
I think that’s kinda high for him hag.especially the homers.
Tom O'Hawke
January 31st, 2011
12:06 am
Good for Julio!!
haggard
January 31st, 2011
12:06 am
DOB
When you mentioned Julio Franco as a manager, I was first a bit surprised. However, looking back, he was a great mentor to quite a few of the younger Braves and was a great clubhouse presence. Do you think he has the reins of a major league club on his horizon or is he simply enjoying himself?
By the way, today was one fine day to be at the Blind Pig–north of Jackson– chowing down on ribs, stew, and those great baked beans with sausage mixed in.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
12:07 am
I’d be happy with 18 HR 75 RBI 75 runs .290 ave and a .840 OPS. That would be great
N8
January 31st, 2011
12:09 am
haggard, I seriously doubt Chipper puts up those kind of numbers this year. He hasn’t in quite a while, he’s in his late 30’s and coming off of a major knee injury.
I’d say, that Chipper and Freeman will have very similar numbers this year. Around 15-20 HR, 70ish RBI. One will play fantastic defense, and likely improve upon those numbers in 2012. The other more than likley will not play fantastic defense, and will possibly retire at season’s end.
Since I haven’t heard of too many 21 year old kids retiring after their first full season in the bigs…… you guys figure it out.
tiger297
January 31st, 2011
12:09 am
haggard – not sure of the numbers (doubt we see 25 HR’s from Chipper) but the others aren’t that far from what he has given us the last couple of years (knee injury excluded). 15 points on Chippers avg won’t be nearly as critical as the 60 points of increased avg/OBP we should hope to get from center field.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:09 am
.275 .375 16HR 74 RBI
McFann O O
January 31st, 2011
12:10 am
Yay, Julio!!
cabravesfan watching a deer take a whole plum, suck it in, work it around it’s mouth and then spit out the pit is just weird
Oooo…that does sound bizarre!
haggard—
Those redbirds are crazy! Always attacking their reflections—Hey, if you don’t like what you see in the mirror, it’s not too late to change!
Trey
January 31st, 2011
12:12 am
So, MLK III wants to buy the Mets. He should wait until the Braves are available so he can try to buy them.
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
12:12 am
The Braves can live without much offense coming from CF if they get some offense from the corners. IMO the corner infielders could determine the success of the season.
haggard
January 31st, 2011
12:14 am
N8 and tiger297–Makes sense. I was probably looking through “spring training” glasses.
275 .375 16HR 74 RBI–nolie
That does sound more realistic. Does that cure any worrries, with a decent glove at third?
haggard
January 31st, 2011
12:14 am
Goodnight McFann
cabravesfan
January 31st, 2011
12:15 am
Tom-
That’s probably true
Time to sign off- Night All!
N8
January 31st, 2011
12:16 am
“Again I know everyone loves Chipper but I can’t wait till they can reinvest that salary for some better production.”
That pretty much sums it up for me. I don’t hate Chipper. I hate that he’s costing the team around 1/6 of the payroll and providing the production that he’s providing.
People can talk about what he provided at a “discount” for all those years, and they’re right. He provided fantastic production at a below market value rate. But that was his choice and like so many have stated, he chose to stay (possibly to play for Bobby), and to be close to home, etc….
Nobody held a gun to his head and said stay.
But in the end, none of that really matters in the “what have you done for me lately” mentality of today’s sports world.
Bottom line is that the 14 million dollars Chipper made last year, and will make this year could certainly be spent better. Anybody who disagrees, just isn’t paying attention.
As for all of the other crap about his pain tolerance, and playing hurt? I don’t really care. What can he do when healthy? And how often is he healthy?
If the answers to those questions are “not much” and “not very often”? Then we have a problem.
If he’s healthy in 2011, we’ll get 15 HR and 75 RBI out of him in around 140 games. Worth 14 million? Probably not.
But considering the alternative, if he’s not healthy, is another 10 HR, 46 RBI season? 15/75 would be welcomed with open arms at this point from me. Anything above that is bonus.
haggard
January 31st, 2011
12:17 am
Goodnight cab
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:19 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N65cP52NC8s&feature=related
Derek Trucks Band
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:21 am
buncha haters
tiger297
January 31st, 2011
12:25 am
N8 – I’m with you no doubt Chippers $14M could be spent better. But if you are going to bring up the pay for production shouldn’t we be paying Prado at least $6M, Hanson $8M, Heyward $7M, etc. I don’t think its fair to point out the players we overpay without mentioning the other side of the discussion.
I don’t like the way it works but until the system changes you will always end up overpaying at the end and underpaying in the beginning.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:26 am
Chipper’s value will be getting on base and nobody we have would likely be as valuable at third including Prado.
N8
January 31st, 2011
12:28 am
“IMO the corner infielders could determine the success of the season.”
Maybe. Maybe not. Other than Glaus’s May (and early June), this team got literally zero production from the corner infield spots.
This year, we’ve added a 30+ HR hitter to the middle of the order, who happens to play 2B.
I’d say the bigger keys to the season are making sure we get healthy production from the current “stars” (Prado, Uggla, Mac and Heyward). That’s half of the everyday lineup. If those guys produce at a high rate, the other guys can simply be “average” and things will be fine.
Chipper, Gonzo, McLouth and Freeman are all capable of hitting 15 or so HR at their respective positions. Which would be plenty of production if the other 4 guys play like the all-stars that they are.
If Prado, Uggla, Mac or Heyward go down? THEN it would be needed for the corner infield guys to step up and mash.
That’s just my opinion of course. But I think the season hinges on the pitching of guys like Kimbrel, Venters, Minor, Beachy and Jurrjens way more than what Freeman and Chipper provide (provided they aren’t just flat out horrible).
P'cola Brave
January 31st, 2011
12:29 am
With all the in house options I’ve seen thrown out this year, I haven’t seen Brent Clevlen mentioned as a possibility. Hes spent some time in the MLB in his career and can play all OF positions.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:30 am
But if you are going to bring up the pay for production shouldn’t we be paying Prado at least $6M, Hanson $8M, Heyward $7M, etc. I don’t think its fair to point out the players we overpay without mentioning the other side of the discussion. tiger
c’mon man don’t try to take N8’s straw argument away from him
N8
January 31st, 2011
12:34 am
“But if you are going to bring up the pay for production shouldn’t we be paying Prado at least $6M, Hanson $8M, Heyward $7M, etc. I don’t think its fair to point out the players we overpay without mentioning the other side of the discussion” tiger
It’s certainly a fair question. But a team that operates on a 85-90 million dollar payroll, probably had no business signing Chipper to that extention. A team with a limited budget like ours is NEEDS guys before their big arbitration years to be productive.
I totally get and agree with where you are coming from. But we are talking about a guy who made 14 million and from a HR and RBI standpoint barely outproduced Brooks Conrad.
If you really look at the current production and talent on this team, it truly is a young blooded team. Most of the main guys producing are the guys that haven’t been “paid” yet.
Heyward, Venters, JJJ, Hanson, Prado.
Obviously, Wren added Uggla and extended him. He’ll be expected to produce 30+ HR this year. Period.
Mac’s arbitration years were bought out, but one could certainly argue that the Braves are getting high value on their dollar.
Hudson was a steal at 9 million dollars last year. And even Lowe wasn’t horrible for his 15 million. Probably a tad overpaid, but not as ridiculously as Chipper’s 14 million, in relative terms.
But yeah. Your point is noted, and not ignored.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:34 am
not sure his MLB numbers will recommend him as having much chance. Limited but pretty crappy. lotsa outs made so far.
haggard
January 31st, 2011
12:34 am
“When it’s sleepytime down south”
Thanks for the company. G’nite.
tiger297
January 31st, 2011
12:34 am
haggard – if you look at what we have offensively assuming Chipper plays 130-40 games Uggla provides a significant upgrade over last years LF and I expect everyone else to provide similar production as last year.
Last years team was enough to get us to the playoffs and 2-3 plays from winning the first round. So I’m not worried about what we bring this year. I think the most obvious opportunity for improvement is in CF with either a rebound for Nate or some other solution that can be better than .190/298
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:38 am
hey .298 was better than SS.. just sayin’
N8
January 31st, 2011
12:38 am
“Chipper’s value will be getting on base and nobody we have would likely be as valuable at third including Prado.” nolie
No doubt. I might slightly disagree that moving forward Prado might be equal to Chipper in OBP, but that’s splitting hairs. But before you make that argument for Chipper, he has to get on the field.
Can’t get on base, if you can’t get in the batter’s box. If he fails to play often, yet refuses to retire. It’s 14 million wasted dollars.
Call it strawman all you want. I call it reality.
If Chipper plays often enough to accumulate anything close to the .275/.375, 15 HR, 75 RBI (that we both seem to agree upon), then the 14 million dollars is a moot argument. Still might be slightly overpaid, but given tiger’s previous argumen (and my similar argument for D-Lowe), it wouldn’t be wasted money.
But if the dude can’t play…… it’s wasted money.
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:44 am
so you were on here against giving Chipper an extension after his BA title year?
tiger297
January 31st, 2011
12:46 am
N8- again splitting hairs but if he is hurt bad enough soon enough I’m guessing insurance pays most of it right? Now if he is plays 1/2 time or is hurt too late for us to get insurance money or after the trade deadline we lose the money and performance.
Even in that scenario we traded diaz/chipper for mather/uggla I still think we work out pretty close to even right.
The boss is calling me to bed wish I could continue this discusion
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:49 am
nite tiger
nolie
January 31st, 2011
12:50 am
wouldn’t a real tiger just tell her that he’ll come when he is good and ready?
N8
January 31st, 2011
12:57 am
“so you were on here against giving Chipper an extension after his BA title year?”
I didn’t have an opinion on it either way, but I’ve always (in every sport that I’m a fan of), been an advocate of letting a player go a couple of years too early, rather than hanging on to them a couple of years too long.
I really don’t remember what my opinion of it was at the time, but I’d be willing to bet I wasn’t doing back flips. If anybody has the time, and the knowledge of how to look up past blogs from the day the extension was signed, I’d love to sift through it.
That’s the problem with giving a long-term extension to a guy in his mid-30’s (assuming steroids are out of the equation)….
For the short-term it might be a GREAT signing in year 1 or even year 2. But for a team on a budget, being “stuck” with that salary might be the difference in winning a close wild card race or not in years 3 or 4. Especially when another guy like Lowe has just as big of a question mark for a contract (add in KK’s if you want to).
Now, in fairness, to flip my argument around… Chipper’s 14 million dollar contract, lack of power and injury shortened season didn’t cost the Braves the playoffs last year, and one could argue that a remotely healthy Chipper makes a difference against SF in the playoffs. So I’m willing to look at it from both sides.
But bottom line is that 34 million dollars (which is 37 percent of our payroll – assuming it’s at 90 million), will go to Lowe, Chipper and KK.
That’s an awful big chunk of money to be giving to 3 guys that may or may not provide solid production at their ages. But as I’ve said all winter, Lowe earned that money (and the benefit of my doubt as a fan), with his September/October pitching.
Chipper’s obviously earned his money as well. I know so many people say that players earn their big contracts based on what they’ve done in the past. But I’d like to think that with our payroll restraints, Wren is giving out money based on what he thinks they will provide moving forward.
This team can no longer afford to give guys money based on feel good past memories (Wren didn’t do it for Smoltz or Glavine). One can only assume that Wren expected Chipper to provide what he did the year before the extension, for the 4 years (or at least 2 or 3 of them) of the extension.
Hopefully adding Uggla (since Chipper had Tex protecting him in the batting title season), and some healthy legs on Chippers behalf gives Wren and the Braves at least something that resembles that production this year.
keylargo
January 31st, 2011
12:58 am
I think some of y’all are forgetting about the depression we, and MLB, are trying to get through. You can’t condemn Chipper’s contract for a number of reasons like how he had taken less, deferred money and in general made less money than he could have elsewhere. But the main reason is that the contract is not at all inflated when you compare it to some of the other contracts given before the economic downturn in the USA.
2008
AJ Burnett 5 years $82.5M
Rafael Furcal 3/$30M
Manny Ramirez 2/$45
CC Sabathia 7/$161M
Mark Teixeira 8/$180M
2009
Jason Bay 4/$66M
Matt Holliday 7/$120M
John Lackey 5/$82.5
N8
January 31st, 2011
1:06 am
“N8- again splitting hairs but if he is hurt bad enough soon enough I’m guessing insurance pays most of it right?” tiger
Oh, you’re absolutely right. But you’re missing the point of my rant. I couldn’t care less about the profit margin for Liberty Media and the fact that THEY have to pay Chipper 14 million dollars (or whether insurance pays for it).
It’s about giving the teams GM the flexibility to field a solid team in the winter. Wren did a VERY nice job filling a hole with Uggla (and one could argue that THAT extension might end up being a problem down the road – but that’s an argument for another day).
But he was stuck between a rock and a hard place with that contract and Chippers “up in the air” status after the surgery.
If insurance does kick in. That’s great. But it will do nothing to provide the team with early season help, since most teams aren’t going to make trades early in the year until they KNOW they are out of the race. Unless Wren decides to part with one of the young studs in the minor leagues (highly unlikely).
It would however, provide Wren a ton of flexibility at the trade deadline or as summer approaches provided the Braves remain in the race. Something I think they’ll do with or without Chipper.
I think they’re a wildcard team without him (if Jurrjens returns to form), and I think they’ll give the Phillies a serious run if Chipper gives us the 15 HR/75 RBI range for production.
Obviously other injuries come into play. But what if Freeman is just lights out this year, and McLouth returns to form? Then Chipper’s production just simply won’t matter.
All I’m really saying is it would be nice to be able to either:
A) Rely on getting from Chipper what we’ve always gotten from him (in the power department)
or
B) Wren would have had that 14 million at his disposal this winter.
I’m just long-winded in my discussion of it.
N8
January 31st, 2011
1:11 am
keylargo
EXCELLENT point in your 12:58 post. But if you look at all of those other contracts, they were given out by teams who could “afford” to take the hit that they did if the guys signed to those contracts “busted” (not saying Chipper is a bust – still two years left for him to make that extension worth the money).
Only team remotely close to the Braves “situation” is the Cardinals, and that place is sold out most nights. Add to that, they HAD to sign Holliday to that deal, with the possibility of Pujols leaving after this year. Add to that, Holliday smacked 45 doubles and 28 HR for the Cards last year, while posting a 900+ OPS.
Whether that deal ends up being an death trap for the Cards down the road or not is still up for debate. But in 2010, he provided EXACTLY the production they were looking for when giving him that contract.
Ward
January 31st, 2011
3:15 am
I have this feeling if Chipper does have a good year,he will be back.Another bad year he will retire.I think he will play as long as he can…….Next year Wren will be waiting on his decision again…….
Ward
January 31st, 2011
3:23 am
Let’s say Freeman has a bad year. Could the Braves make a trade for Albert? I’m not saying Freeman going have bad year.Would like to see him do great. Just a thought.
Ward
January 31st, 2011
4:20 am
nite all, and peace……….Talk tomorrow if not busy………
Glord1
January 31st, 2011
7:01 am
N8 makes a lot of good points about Chipper and it is pretty much how I feel. Here is the problem. He just does not play enough to help the team frow a production standpoint. Even in his batting title year where he was fantastic he still missed enough time to only drive in 75 runs.
People that think he has been such a good bargain need to look at his overall production and take the name off the back of his jersey. In the last 7 years he has averaged 22 HR, 77 RBI and 76 runs at a price tags of 13.7 mil per year. Is that really a bargain? Over the same time period Pedro Feliz averaged 18 79 and 64 for 3.5 mil. I know Chipper is a much better player than Feliz but you get the point. He has not been a bargain since 2003 because he can’t stay on the field.
David O'Brien
January 31st, 2011
8:09 am
In the last 7 years he has averaged 22 HR, 77 RBI and 76 runs at a price tags of 13.7 mil per year. Is that really a bargain? Over the same time period Pedro Feliz averaged 18 79 and 64 for 3.5 mil. I know Chipper is a much better player than Feliz but you get the point. — Glord1
No, I really don’t get the point. At all.
Pedro Feliz? Pedro FELIZ? In the last four years he’s gone from .253 avg/20 HR/.708 OPS in 2007, to .249/14/.705 in 2008, to .266/12/.694 in 2009, to .218/5/.533 in 2010.
To repeat, he hit .218 with 5 HRs and a .533 OPS in 429 plate appearances in 2010 — while making $4.5 million.
In that same four year span, Chipper’s gone .327/29/1.029 (NL OPS leader) in 2007, .364/22/1.044 in ‘08, .264/18/.818 in ‘09, and .265/10/.806 in ‘10 before blowing out his knee in early August. He had 381 plate appearances in 2010, after totaling 600 PAs in 2007, 534 PAs in ‘08 and 596 PAs in ‘09.
Oh, and he’s got two years and $28 million left on a guaranteed contract.
So what was the point again about Chipper/Pedro Feliz?
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
8:56 am
I say it takes a lot of balls to complain about the contract extension Chipper got if you look at his numbers in 2007 and 2008 (see DOB above). He HAD JUST won a batting title. And that doesn’t even count what he has done for the Braves on and off the field over his career (and YES N8, at a discount price).
raleighbravefan
January 31st, 2011
9:01 am
The same people calling for Chipper to retire, want us to trade for Albert. First, it won’t happen. Second, he will get 8-10 years on his next contract at a lot more per year than Chipper. How old is he? Do you think he will be worth $25M+ in the last half of that contract? If you are going to debate, at least get a little reality.