Uggla, Braves agree to five-year, $62 million extension
Dan Uggla and the Braves agreed to a five-year, $62 million extension that will give him the highest average salary ever for a second baseman and keep him under contract through 2015, three sources close to negotiations said.
The sides agreed to terms Tuesday night on the deal, which covers Uggla’s final year of arbitration in 2011 and what would have been his first four years of free agency. It’s expected to be announced Thursday, after he passes a physical.
Uggla averaged nearly 31 home runs and 93 RBIs in five seasons with the Marlins, including career-highs of 33 homers and 105 RBIs in 2010 to win the Silver Slugger award as best-hitting second baseman in the National League.
He also set personal bests in average (.287), on-base percentage (.369) and on-base-plus-slugging percentage (.877) in 2010, with a .508 slugging percentage that was six points off his best. His statistics would have led the 2010 Braves in homers, RBIs, slugging and OPS.
Uggla is a .263 career hitter with 154 home runs and 465 RBIs — the most homers ever for a middle infielder in his first five seasons, and the second-most by any National League right-handed hitter in the past five seasons, behind Albert Pujols.
The Braves got him in a Nov. 16 trade for infielder Omar Infante and rookie left-handed reliever Mike Dunn. Atlanta general manager Frank Wren and Uggla both said right after the deal that they wanted to work out a long-term extension and believed they would. They were correct.
Negotiations went smoothly over the past four weeks, with a break for Christmas.
Uggla was traded by Florida shortly after turning down a four-year, $48 million offer from the Marlins. Uggla asked them for for a five-year, $71 million deal, and later said he thought negotiations would continue and was surprised to be abruptly traded.
If he was going to be traded, Uggla said the Braves were an ideal landing spot. He grew up a Braves fan in Columbia, Tenn., outside Nashville, and was excited that he’d be so close to home and that his family and friends would get to see him play on a regular basis.
He was also pleased to be reunited with new Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez, who had Uggla for 3-1/2 seasons with the Marlins before Gonzalez was fired in June.
The five-year deal includes no option year. Uggla’s average annual salary of $12.4 million surpasses Philadelphia’s Chase Utley’s $12.14 million as the highest for a second baseman (althought Utley has the larger contract at seven years, $85 million).
Uggla gets a $9 million salary in 2011, about $1 million to $2 million below what he might have commanded if he’d gone through with his final year of arbitration. He’ll earn an average of $13.25 million over the final four seasons of the deal, with the salaries fairly even over that period.
With the signing, the Braves added for the long term a hitter who’s belted more than 30 homers in each of the past four seasons and never driven in fewer than 88 runs (and has at least 90 RBIs in four). In 45 career games at Turner Field, he has a .354 average with 12 homers, 36 RBIs and a 1.051 OPS.
His .652 slugging percentage at Turner Field is the third-highest among players who’ve played 30 or more games at the ballpark, trailing only Barry Bonds and Pujols.
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192 comments Add your comment
Runnin
January 4th, 2011
9:14 pm
That’s well worth 30 HRs a year, if that’s what he gives.
BravesFanChris26
January 4th, 2011
9:15 pm
Great news
seminoles
January 4th, 2011
9:16 pm
Finally everyone who doesn’t have a clue can stop comparing this to the Texiera trade
Mudville Nine
January 4th, 2011
9:18 pm
Merry belated Christmas to the Braves!!!!
The day we made the trade for him, I was upset, because I was CERTAIN we would not extend him, and probably trade him at the Deadline next Summer.
Now that he has shown he wants to be here, I am considering buying a his Jersey!
What’s the best way to stop a Braves Killer?? MAKE HIM A BRAVE!!!!
Welcome home Dan! Welcome home.
P Rose
January 4th, 2011
9:18 pm
Welcome home, Dan! Everyone wins with this deal (except the Phillies, Marlins, Mets, etc…)
daniel buck
January 4th, 2011
9:22 pm
Are we giving him less in the first year in hopes of having money to trade for a center-fielder like Ellsbury… Will they have the money doing it this way… Either way great deal!!
Mudville Nine
January 4th, 2011
9:23 pm
The first goal of every season should ALWAYS be to win the Division.
But I honestly see NO WAY that the Wild Card will come from anywhere but the East again this year. I plan to do a lot less scoreboard watching in May and June this year, and go in with a mindset that even if the Phillies rotation is all it could be, we should easily have a lock on that Wild Card.
6 short weeks til Pitchers and Catchers report!!!!
Billy Jack's Barbecue & Shrimp Co
January 4th, 2011
9:23 pm
Dan Uggla highly recommends Billy Jack’s Barbecue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rock on Frank Wren. Cliff Lee who???
Marlins fan
January 4th, 2011
9:23 pm
Hate to break it to you but in 3 years Dan won’t be the Dan he is now. He’ll be 34 when the season starts.
Vinny D
January 4th, 2011
9:24 pm
Excited to see him keep raking at the Ted…In the right uniform!!
farmer
January 4th, 2011
9:28 pm
this is great news.. it isn’t another Tex trade. I thought for sure as Im sure a lot of other people did that he was going to be a one and done. now we have got him for 5 years and we have his veteran leadership to build on. great deal Wren. it’s about time we actually opened the bank.
Mutts
January 4th, 2011
9:29 pm
Great news!
foultip
January 4th, 2011
9:30 pm
Another player hits the winning lotto number. The mafia should have invested in sports. What an upside society we have paying sport figures millions. Should do as the utilities companies. If you watch, you pay instead of making everyone pay through the golden goose of TV
sponsors. Even, if you have never seen, watch or read about sports, you are paying for this outrageous salary on products you purchase. God help us.
Mudville Nine
January 4th, 2011
9:31 pm
Marlins fan,
you sound quite envious, and bitter.
LOVE IT!!!!!!
Bill
January 4th, 2011
9:32 pm
Great job Wren..Now a utility player?
Reid in EAV
January 4th, 2011
9:33 pm
Always a risk with a long term deal, but I like the odds on this one. Glad they got it done. Now to find a new home for KK…
And hey, wow, a Marlins fan sighting! Where’s the other one?
German Shepherd Dawg
January 4th, 2011
9:37 pm
Good one, Reid.
MitchC
January 4th, 2011
9:41 pm
Dave, this is great news. After the fiasco that happened with the Mark Texaira situation, and how that turned out, it’s excellent that the Braves got a relatively young power hitter locked up to a long term deal.
We should definitely be the favorite to win the wild card in 2011, and should be a good team for years to come.
VDeuce
January 4th, 2011
9:44 pm
I don’t think Uggla is 33…that’s a lie. Even if he is, he still makes less than Chipper & will give us more pop than Chipper ever has since his steroid MVP season. If Chipper would just retire the Braves could really make some things happen!!! Kudos to Frank Wren he’s filling Scherholtz’s shoes nicely.
Joey M
January 4th, 2011
9:45 pm
I can’t wait to see the Braves next season.
Joey M
January 4th, 2011
9:46 pm
VDeuce, I would like to say your are an idiot, sir.
Billy Jack's Barbecue & Shrimp Co
January 4th, 2011
9:49 pm
Reid, come by Billy Jack’s for some free “Q”. Great comment.
NORRIS
January 4th, 2011
9:50 pm
HELLO??? Chipper is still unknown and even if he comes back will not play as much. Which means 2 very bad outfielders. ONCE AGAIN. we have no outfielders. I have said repeatedly that we need to get an outfielder that can play everyday if we needed it. But nooooo they seem to be content with a bunch of nobodys.
It's not my money
January 4th, 2011
9:50 pm
I quit going to major league sports events twenty years ago. The money these guys get is freaking ludicrous.
I don’t even watch these barely talented millionaires on TV, there are plenty of other channels.
sp
January 4th, 2011
9:53 pm
overpaid…stupid..for a 30+ yr old?…dumb move out of desperation for power
shawn
January 4th, 2011
9:54 pm
Joey M,
I agree with you 100% that VDeuce is way above an idoit sir.
Joey M
January 4th, 2011
9:54 pm
“It’s not my money”, why are you here than???
anobles10
January 4th, 2011
9:58 pm
Man, if he can replicate the numbers he’s already put up at Turner Field in his career, over the course of 81 games, we’ll have gotten our money’s worth just in home games.
doc
January 4th, 2011
9:59 pm
nice call on this one dob, as usual. nice job gm wren, nice job.
i hope this will take him through and close to what could be a hall of fame career if he continues with the numbers he has put up in the past which are beyond the usual for a second baseman. yup, he could be that good and we the beneficiaries in the long run. i just hope he is not on ped’s the only obstacle to this being a better than good trade.
Bravo Uno
January 4th, 2011
9:59 pm
Now its to time to get Lorenzo Cain or Jacoby Ellsbury for centerfield !
Michael
January 4th, 2011
10:02 pm
Bravo Uno apparently you didn’t get the memo that Cain was traded to the Royals in the Zack Grenke deal.
ray
January 4th, 2011
10:04 pm
it’s probably one year more than the Braves wanted, but better 5 yrs than only one.
right now there are no good RH power prospects in the minors.
no free agent will be as good at 35 as he is at 30 so that is built into any such signing. what about Cliff Lee at 36 and 37 ?
if he wanted $71 mill. for 5 yrs from Fla., he wasn’t signing with the Braves for 4 yrs and $50 mill.
Beaufort Chuck
January 4th, 2011
10:05 pm
“I don’t think Uggla is 33…that’s a lie. Even if he is, he still makes less than Chipper & will give us more pop than Chipper ever has since his steroid MVP season. If Chipper would just retire the Braves could really make some things happen!!! Kudos to Frank Wren he’s filling Scherholtz’s shoes nicely.” -VDeuce
Really. Chipper has never been linked to steroid use…ever. Except by people like yourself. This is a completely bogus statement. Joey M said it best. With that said, I’m pretty stoked about extending Uggla. Should be pretty solid for the life of the contract.
E.lo
January 4th, 2011
10:14 pm
Hey Marlins Fan, I did not know the Marlins had a fan.
take it from me.
January 4th, 2011
10:17 pm
if you can give uggla that kind of money,how about a little rebate to the fans.
anobles10
January 4th, 2011
10:18 pm
Dear Marlins fan, hate to break it to you, but you won’t have him for any of the five years, so go ahead say stuff like that, because we just know you’re jealous.
Joey P
January 4th, 2011
10:30 pm
Norris you are crazy thinking we don’t have an outfielder. What about Heyward? 2011 will be his year!
gadawgs
January 4th, 2011
10:30 pm
Outstanding. NIce job Wren!!!!
wesley
January 4th, 2011
10:37 pm
March 11, 1980 is his birthdate, he will turn 31 in march
Tomahawk Chop
January 4th, 2011
10:43 pm
Daniel Cooley Uggla (born March 11, 1980) is an American professional baseball second baseman with the Atlanta Braves of Major League Baseball. Uggla finished third in the 2006 National League Rookie of the Year voting behind teammate and winner Hanley Ramirez, and Ryan Zimmerman of the Washington Nationals, but won the Players Choice and Sporting News NL ROY awards. Dan also had his own fan club at Sun Life Stadium who called themselves “Uggla’s Ugglies.” Uggla is the all-time leader in home runs for the Marlins, and is the only second baseman in MLB history to hit at least thirty home runs in four consecutive seasons
AdirondackDave
January 4th, 2011
10:45 pm
Excellent news. The centerfield situation will get sorted out in spring training. Braves look mighty good for ‘11 and far beyond to me.
Joe
January 4th, 2011
10:47 pm
2011 World Series Championship coming right up no one can beat us now. Phuk Philly, It’s Atlanta for years to come.
kelly
January 4th, 2011
10:48 pm
Hey Foultip,
Check the rules of the board.
None of that crap you spew should be talked about here regardless of who agrees with what you say.
MK
gcs
January 4th, 2011
10:49 pm
Woo-Hoo!
.
Elonbrave
January 4th, 2011
10:53 pm
Is it a perfect situation? Who knows… Time will tell.
But, Uggla, Heyward, and McCann in the middle of a lineup for at least a few more years sure makes me feel good.
Peter
January 4th, 2011
11:03 pm
Well that is allot of a old guy with stone hands, and a big strike out guy. But say he really does produce, and doesn’t get hurt….. then it will be great.
Time will tell, and hopefully he gets more important hits than strike outs.
I hope we get a closer, and a great set up guy, the starters deserve them.
Go Braves……. but wait what about the SPEED ?
Sam The Swami
January 4th, 2011
11:05 pm
Good signing…no surprise here. This line up still scares me as there is not one other guy that we can comfortably count on for 20 HRs. Chipper, Heyward, McCann, Freeman, etc., are not locks for consistent power. I’m afraid this line up, while solid, still has WAY too many question marks. I’m caustiously optimistic… GO BRAVES!! C’mon Wren, surprise me.
Jimmy Beam, you are my friend
January 4th, 2011
11:15 pm
A big tip of the glass to DOB for giving us a bon-er, I mean a heads up regarding the Uggla news. Dave, it is especially fun to read your insights at this time of year. Thanks. Go Bravos!
GT Alum
January 4th, 2011
11:23 pm
Sam The Swami -
McCann’s only hit less than 20 HRs once in his career, and he hit 18 that year. Heyward had 18 in his rookie season, despite battling an injury for a significant period. The last 2 years are the only time Chipper’s hit less than 20, and he had 18 in 2009. IF healthy, Chipper will hit about 20.
I’d be willing to be at least 3 hitters in this lineup will have at least 20 HRs.
bruce
January 4th, 2011
11:29 pm
five-year, $62 million extension that will give him the highest average salary ever for a second baseman DOB
highest ever for braves or all of baseball at second base? I know what “ever’ means, just askin. thanks.
Innocent Bystander
January 4th, 2011
11:39 pm
For the sabermetricians out there… check out this WAR graph involving Dan Uggla:
http://bit.ly/e4QzNv
GT Alum
January 4th, 2011
11:44 pm
bruce -
The five-year deal includes no option year. Uggla’s average annual salary of $12.4 million surpasses Philadelphia’s Chase Utley’s $12.14 million as the highest for a second baseman (althought Utley has the larger contract at seven years, $85 million).
For any 2B for any team.
GT Alum
January 4th, 2011
11:53 pm
Innocent Bystander -
Yeah, there’s a nice correlation there, but if you look at the WAR for each year by age, it’s not so encouraging. Kent’s WAR had a more steady progression until he hit 30, then it jumped at age 32. Uggla’s WAR has followed a pattern of going down by about 1.5 then jumping 2 the next year. That is a general progression, just not as strong as Kent’s. Also, if the pattern holds, we’re due for a drop-off this year.
James
January 5th, 2011
12:23 am
Go Braves!
Innocent Bystander
January 5th, 2011
12:29 am
GT Alum- You’re very correct. Unfortunately, after I mentioned that correlation, our old buddy PWHjort showed me that on a year-by-year basis, Uggla’s WAR is very similar to Geoff Jenkins. Either way, I do expect a little drop-off this year from Uggla, but I still anticipate he will be a welcome addition to our relatively punchless lineup.
double
January 5th, 2011
12:40 am
Uggla will have to hit some good,very good pitching.
Innocent Bystander
January 5th, 2011
12:47 am
He is gonna have to hit some good pitching… Thankfully, only when we play Philly. He would’ve faced them if he were in FL anyway, but facing Marlins pitching 18 games a year will replace facing Braves pitching 18 games a year. That should provide a bit of a boost, albeit marginal.
David O'Brien
January 5th, 2011
1:27 am
Bruce, the highest per-season avg salary for any 2B in major league history. Which is why I noted in story that he surpassed Utley’s average annual salary (though Utley’s contract is bigger, since it’s a seven-year deal).
stinger
January 5th, 2011
2:40 am
Dan Ugla is 30, birthdate 1980-03-11
jed
January 5th, 2011
2:41 am
now that we’ve signed him to a long-term deal, is there any chance we can move him to LF? prado’s much better defensively and it’s an important position. since there’s nothing to lose financially for him now, why not field the best defensive team we can?
Younger Than That Now
January 5th, 2011
2:56 am
This is a good start to 2011 for the Braves. I can’t wait for spring training to begin and my annual Florida trip in March, and then shortly after that… OPENING DAY… which should be a national holiday! Thanks David for the usual great job and I hope that 2011 is a good one for you.
BTW… have you tried Jim N Nick’s BBQ yet? It’s great old fashioned q and I love it. I’ve mentioned it before but didn’t know if you had ever had the opportunity… the complimentary cheese biscuits (more of a muffin really) are out of this world good.
bravesfaninNashville
January 5th, 2011
3:31 am
Second best news of the offseason was the day The Braves traded for Uggla…. The BEST news of the offseason is today’s extension… This makes the middle of our order no picnic for opposing pitchers. Love the trade REALLY LOVE the signing. Thank you Frank Wren….
DOB Fan
January 5th, 2011
5:01 am
DOB: Thanks for keeping us Brave fans informed throughout the year.
Your point about Uggla`s contract being highest ever for a 2b is very interesting.
To me, this points out the fact that GM`s/Owners believe that salaries are determined (at least to some extent) by the positions they play.This is why (a few weeks ago) in an awkward way I tried to make a point that Uggla as a second baseman was only a partial answer to badly needed power in the braves lineup. My point is that we still need an outfielder to supply power from the LF and CF positions. For the pay that these position players demand and get,I believe that an outfielder should
hit at least 25-30 hrs and drive in 90-100 runs. Heyward may do that in RF. We will see. I just think the missing piece is LF and/or CF. If Prado plays LF consistently, he may come close to filling the void there. Would like to hear your thoughts on my comments.
elainer7
January 5th, 2011
5:50 am
Thats alot of money for an ” older ” player. I just hope he doesnt spend as much time on the bench as Chipper does.
Branch Rickey
January 5th, 2011
6:56 am
Now get a younbg centerfielder w/speed like Lorenzo Cain or Jacoby Ellsbury !
Cain w/b the 4th outfielder on a Royals’ team desperate for pitching, which the Braves have plenty of in the minors. Plus he’s righthanded which would give the Braves’ more balance in the lineup.
McLouth is a bust and Schafer has done zilch since he was busted for steroids. He only hit .201 in the minors last season.
MLB’s highest paid second baseman | Ben Maller
January 5th, 2011
6:57 am
[...] Utley has the larger contract at seven years, $85 million). Uggla gets a $9 million salary in 2011, about $1 million to $2 million below what he might have commanded if he’d gone through with his fi…. He’ll earn an average of $13.25 million over the final four seasons of the deal, with the [...]
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
7:29 am
I am not surprised at all by the negative comments. As has been pointed out many times, the Braves could trade KK for Pujols, and someone would whine. It’s not a matter of being spoiled, nor is it a matter of simply being contrary. I think most of the negative posts reveal the lack of subtleties required for being anythng other than ignorance.
My input is this is a very nice day for the Braves and their fans. Congrats to Uggla. Congrats to Wren. Congrats to the fans who supported the team.
Let’s bring on Spring Training.
GOP Cannon
January 5th, 2011
7:47 am
This was a really good move and worth the money. The biggest problem with our team over the past season is that we had a punch-less offense behind a great starting pitching staff and bullpen. Uggla is the big bat that we desperately need in the middle of the line up!
SavannahBraves Fan
January 5th, 2011
7:49 am
This deal looks a lot better than the Beltre deal; 6yrs for $96 million.
Cecil34
January 5th, 2011
8:03 am
Uggla has proven that he is a consistant power hitter – he may be 30, but I would not anticipate any real decline until after 35.
Check out Baseballreference.com – look up some of your favorite great players of the past and see if that isn’t generally true.
I really think Uggla has potential here to hit upwards of 38 to 40 homers especially if Chipper is in the lineup this year.
braveshoo
January 5th, 2011
8:17 am
Great Move. The Braves are establishing a core group of players we can keep and build our team around for many years: McCann, Heyward, Uggla, Prado, and hopefully Freeman plus all our young pitching: Hanson, Tehran, Delgado, JJ, Minor, Beachy, Medlin, Venters, Kimbrel, and others. We still need a young, speedy CF, but the future looks bright to me.
Bravesfaninnashville
January 5th, 2011
8:20 am
This signing is a bargain… If we look at division rivals Washington is going to pay Jason Werth $132 million over 7 years. I would bet a lot that Uggla will outperform him during the 5 years he is signed. Werth has had back issues and will have more pressure and less support in that Nationals lineup. The Rangers are paying $96 million for Beltre over 6 years. They’ll get Gold Glove D from him but he’s only had 2 great offensive years and they were both salary drive years. The salaries are in the stratosphere crazy but the Braves got as close to a certain 30hr/90+RBI as there is for a lot less money than several other contenders are paying for similar performance. This leaves the Braves in better shape later on. Hats off to Mr. Wren again!
G.Rhone
January 5th, 2011
8:29 am
I like the Uggla deal, but what happened to “Good” pitching?
TennesseePaul
January 5th, 2011
8:39 am
Excellent.
Scott
January 5th, 2011
8:40 am
I like this even more, because I think it helps us at 3rd as well. To my knowledge we don’t have anyone in the minors ready or close to ready to take over for Chipper. So, with the commitment to Uggla at 2nd, Prado finds a new home at 3rd, that is after Chipper is done, whether that be this year or next. Once Prado moves from LF to 3rd full-time, we should be able to go get that star LF we’ve needed with Chipper’s old money.
Steve
January 5th, 2011
8:53 am
What happened to Good pitching? We have a VERY good staff. We’ve got Hudson (Cy Young candidate) and Lowe who had an AMAZING second half. Then we’ve got three potential future ACES in Jair, Hanson, and Minor/Beachy! ANY team would love to have just ONE of those five guys. We’ve got one of the best rotations in the NL! Maybe THE best behind Philly.
Then we’ve got the bullpen .. with Kimbrel, Venters, Linebrink, Sherrill, EOF, and Moylan. That’s pretty darn outstanding if you ask me.
About the signing, this is a great bargain IMO. Uggla is a legitimate power threat who we can count on. He isn’t oft-injured *knock on wood* and he isn’t HORRIBLE defensively. Overall, I have no qualms with giving him 12.4 mil/per. Anyone who thinks this was a bad deal is staggeringly uninformed. This lineup is now a very good one! We might not have a lot of BIG power threats, however from 1-8 we could be looking at 15-20 home runs AVERAGE from top to bottom! That my friends is CONSISTENCY! Who cares if you have one guy hitting 40 when nobody else can make contact?
Furthermore, pretty much all our guys (including McLouth .. on a good year) make consistent hard contact and generally put the ball in play. We are the kind of lineup that wears a pitcher out and gets into bullpens with a quickness. That’ .. combined with out great pitching .. is why we are a true force to be reckoned with if healthy!
sportsmandh
January 5th, 2011
9:01 am
When I read the Rangers signed Adrian Beltre for 6 years, 16 mil per, total of 96 mil, then this Uggla deal looks all the more better. I would take Uggla over Beltre any day of the week. (just making a comparison, I know the Braves weren’t ever considering Beltre)
Glenn
January 5th, 2011
9:04 am
I figure that will work out to about 3.5 million per base hit. They paid way to much for him Before they gave him the money!
Southernboy
January 5th, 2011
9:08 am
Uggla’s Uglies? At least I won’t need to buy a costume. Does anybody know Uggla’s average against the new Phillies rotation?
Reid in EAV
January 5th, 2011
9:16 am
Thanks Billy Jack, I may just take you up on that.
Colllier Road, right?
Reason
January 5th, 2011
9:17 am
Every time the Braves sign one of these guys to a long term contract the go flat.
PMC
January 5th, 2011
9:17 am
Hopefully it’s a good deal. 12.4 million is good money for a star player, and the length at his age is about perfect.
Shaggy1973
January 5th, 2011
9:25 am
So with the 1 mil to 2 mil they saved in the first year plus if they can trade KK they should have 3-4 mil to spend somewhere else. Correct? (If they can get someone to take around half of KK contract.)
luv them braves
January 5th, 2011
9:25 am
As the guy in “Charlie Wilson’s War” said in reference to a Zen Master – We will see. Only time will tell if this was a good move. But it certainly looks good at this point. I’d much rather have him than Werth.
And FYI – the best BBQ is “Fresh Air” in Jackson, GA.
Bob the Blogger
January 5th, 2011
9:27 am
This amount of money seems crazy until you look at what some of the other players are getting. The Werth deal was the “werth” one of all. The Braves will be paying 13m for a 35 year old, but some players are getting much more than that heading into their 40s.
If we had tried to sign Uggla as a free agent later, he would have cost a lot more.
Wednesday Morning (Links) Dump | FanSided
January 5th, 2011
9:29 am
[...] Actually, they got Uggla last November, but they got Uggla for a while now. Dan Uggla signed a five-year, $62 million extension with the Braves. The former Marlin will become the highest paid Braves second baseball in their [...]
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
9:31 am
Glenn, your comment is so shockingly absurd that it defies responding to it.
Reason, please go ahead and remind us that you were here a couple of years ago posting how happy you were that they did not sign Tex to a long term contract. Or better yet, since you don’t want the Braves signing players long term, why don’t you explain what you would do to make the team competitive.
wjones
January 5th, 2011
9:42 am
“Marlins fan
January 4th, 2011
9:23 pm
Hate to break it to you but in 3 years Dan won’t be the Dan he is now. He’ll be 34 when the season starts.”
Hate to break it to you, but he’ll be 31 when this season starts. If you are talking about 3 years from now, yes we will be 34 then, with an excellent chance to be 35. Hate to break it to you, but in three years all of your other good players will be traded AGAIN and your team will be once again gutted and your owner will continue to be a very rich jackass. But maybe since you are accustomed to that type of team management, you can’t understand why a team would sign a good player to a long-term deal. Understandable.
wjones
January 5th, 2011
9:44 am
“Glenn
January 5th, 2011
9:04 am
I figure that will work out to about 3.5 million per base hit. They paid way to much for him Before they gave him the money!”
So you are figuring that Uggla will get 4 hits this year? Or are you just bad at math?
Also, it’s “too”, not “to”.
Billy Jack's Barbecue & Shrimp Co
January 5th, 2011
9:50 am
Yes, REID, ask for the boss man/safecracker/gun runner and I will take care of you. Be prepared to show some ID so I don’t end up giving away Q to the entire Braves nation that posts (although I wish I could this morning to celebrate the signing)on this blog.
zeke
January 5th, 2011
9:52 am
How ridiculous! No wonder the average person, even rabid fans, cannot afford to attend a game! Same for nfl, and, who cares about the nba? Those thugs are not worth one dime! If they had to play a real basketball game instead of the crap they play, they would all be bankrupt!
Kyle
January 5th, 2011
9:58 am
DOB – Im not sure I like giving him that long a deal. The deal he turned down from Florida seemed like the right one to me. That is alot of money for a guy who in 3 years should be a DH. I love the move short term but i hope it doesnt come back to bite us. Then again, Im not a big fan of long term contracts for guys over 30 anyway
wjones
January 5th, 2011
9:59 am
“zeke
January 5th, 2011
9:52 am
How ridiculous! No wonder the average person, even rabid fans, cannot afford to attend a game! Same for nfl, and, who cares about the nba? Those thugs are not worth one dime! If they had to play a real basketball game instead of the crap they play, they would all be bankrupt!”
Sorry to break it to you, but if someone is willing to pay it to you, they must think you are worth it. What would you say if offered to you? Thought so. BTW, follow baseball much? Take a look around the two leagues and see what the other free agents have gotten, then come back to me. You guys are so funny–you complain when the Braves DON’T spend, then complain when they do. Hope you don’t complain like that to your spouses, or you would be miserable to live with.
40yrBravesFan
January 5th, 2011
9:59 am
Oh Yeah! GO BRAVES!!! I can smell Spring Training in the air…
TB
January 5th, 2011
9:59 am
Great deal! And ever since I heard Lorenzo Cain was traded to Kansas City (only the Braves favorite team to trade with), I’ve been expecting Wren to get that deal done as well.
TDub
January 5th, 2011
10:00 am
Well done. Thrilled to have Uggla at 2b!
Gary O
January 5th, 2011
10:15 am
Lowe and his $15 mil annual salary will be off the books in 2 years, and so will Chipper and his $14 mil salary. Nate and Kawakami will be off the books after this season (if they are not traded).
Our other pitchers are fairly affordable for a few years at least, and only Brian has a big salary kicking in soon.
So financially, I dont think this will hamstrung the Braves too much. Plus chances are he can be traded in the 5th year of his deal, when expiring contracts become valuable.
collegeballfan
January 5th, 2011
10:24 am
Mudville Nine
Thanks for the reminder. I just pulled up “Casey at the Bat” and read it again. Wonderful piece of baseball’s lore.
richbrave
January 5th, 2011
10:46 am
bravesfaninNashville
January 5th, 2011
3:31 am
Second best news of the offseason was the day The Braves traded for Uggla…. The BEST news of the offseason is today’s extension… This makes the middle of our order no picnic for opposing pitchers. Love the trade REALLY LOVE the signing. Thank you Frank Wren….
No picnic except maybe on the field.
smits
January 5th, 2011
10:55 am
the stats in the last paragraph speak volumes.
VDeuce
January 5th, 2011
11:14 am
Joey, Shawn You’re right I am way above an idiot, I’m a genius. Yall can live in blind denial all you want. Chipper NEVER hit 30 HRs after his steroid MVP season and has been CONSTANTLY INJURED. Even his BA is comparable to McLouth now. Idiots are people who hope a 38 year old who makes 15 million will be able to hit 20 HRs next season!!! I hope Chipper does the RIGHT THING FOR THE BRACES AND RETIRES. IDIOTS come with a REAL ARGUMENT instead of resorting to name calling!!! But there is NO argument for Chipper Jones.
Chief pitchanono
January 5th, 2011
11:20 am
Awesome!! This is something Wren and the braves really needed to do. We haven’t spent big money on a bat since Chipper’s last contract and this is the best deal the Braves could possibly have hoped for. Its great they were able to get this done now, even though we still have allot of money on the books with chipper, D. lowe, and Kawakami still on there. The good news is hopefully we can look forward to a few more big signings after these contracts come off the books.
Brava
January 5th, 2011
11:21 am
This is wonderful news for the Braves and their fans!! I think Dan Uggla will make the Braves better, not only with what he himself brings to the table, but by challenging the competitive spirit of the other players. After all, they say hitting is contagious.
GO BRAVES!!!!
KyleH
January 5th, 2011
11:30 am
Just for fun:
Dan Uggla Homeruns in 2011: Over/Under 32
Dan Uggla Batting Averae in 2011: Over/Under .275
What do you think?
Braves Fan Since "80
January 5th, 2011
11:37 am
Good job braves! Now it is up to Uggla to perform…… Should he bring a big stick to the TED and some boodies to the seats we can find two good out fielders or one great one based on our needs
Looking forward to Gonzales putting his Managerial stamp on this team….. You can not win the pennant in the winter but you can lose it…….
Let’s give these Cox hater fans something to Cheer about
ryan c
January 5th, 2011
11:38 am
i’ll take the under for both. he’s probably in for a slight decline from his 2010 numbers. i’ll go with 29 and .264 (ops around .840).
Clint
January 5th, 2011
11:38 am
KyleH – Homeruns – Under (just slightly). Average – Over (I’m thinking .285 to .295).
Braves Reach Extension With Dan Uggla « TheUpperCardNetwork.com
January 5th, 2011
11:42 am
[...] David O’Brien of The Atlanta Journal Constitution provided information [...]
wjones
January 5th, 2011
11:48 am
“VDeuce
January 5th, 2011
11:14 am
Joey, Shawn You’re right I am way above an idiot, I’m a genius. Yall can live in blind denial all you want. Chipper NEVER hit 30 HRs after his steroid MVP season and has been CONSTANTLY INJURED. Even his BA is comparable to McLouth now. Idiots are people who hope a 38 year old who makes 15 million will be able to hit 20 HRs next season!!! I hope Chipper does the RIGHT THING FOR THE BRACES AND RETIRES. IDIOTS come with a REAL ARGUMENT instead of resorting to name calling!!! But there is NO argument for Chipper Jones.”
So Chipper’s wearing braces now? DOB, why haven’t you told us this?
David O'Brien
January 5th, 2011
12:00 pm
DOB – Im not sure I like giving him that long a deal. The deal he turned down from Florida seemed like the right one to me. That is alot of money for a guy who in 3 years should be a DH. I love the move short term but i hope it doesnt come back to bite us. Then again, Im not a big fan of long term contracts for guys over 30 anyway — Kyle
In order to construct teams in this era, you work with the economic system that’s in effect in the game. And the simple fact is, the Braves had to give Uggla at least a five-year deal to keep him, at a time when free agents — he could’ve been one in 10 months — are getting deals of six or seven years. He could’ve just waited and become a free agent, and provided he stayed healthy and had another average year by his standards, he would’ve gotten a far bigger deal than Braves just gave him.
GMs don’t have the luxury of sitting back and constructing a team the way some fans would like to do, fearful of the inherent danger of signing 30-plus players to long-terms deals, or starting pitchers to long-terms deals, or never trading prospects for established players, etc. No, GMs have to work within the current system, or see desirable players all go elsewhere. And they have to make moves designed to help a team win now while hopefully not mortgaging the future, and they have to decide how to walk that line all the time, because in professional sports, teams with winning traditions and competitive payrolls do not have fan bases or owners that want to hear about 5-year plans and rebuilding, etc.
These are just the realities that team-builders have to deal with. They don’t have the option of operating in a perfect world where there’s no need to take risks such as giving long-terms deals to players over 30.
BRAVES FAN 1966
January 5th, 2011
12:13 pm
joey m i agree with you not my money if thats the case WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CARE ?????????????????
David O'Brien
January 5th, 2011
12:19 pm
Joey, Shawn You’re right I am way above an idiot, I’m a genius. Yall can live in blind denial all you want. Chipper NEVER hit 30 HRs after his steroid MVP season and has been CONSTANTLY INJURED. — VDeuce
Serious question: Do you not have access to reference books or know how to use various statistics/reference sites on the internet?
Chipper Jones was MVP in 1999. You say he NEVER hit 30 homers after that season. Well, actually he hit 36 homers in 2000, 38 homers in 2001 and 30 homers in 2004 (he also hit 29 in 2007).
You say he has been CONSTANTLY injured since his MVP season. Actually he played 156 games the next season (2000), then 159 games in ‘01, 158 games in ‘02 and 153 games in ‘03, before falling off to 137 games in ‘04 — five years after his MVP season.
He played 143 games in 2009 at age 37. You know how many Braves played more than 143 games in 2010? One. Melky Cabrera (147).
(For those curious: In 2010, Brian McCann played 143 games, Jason Heyward played 142, and Martin Prado played 140. That trio and Melky were the only Braves who played as many as 130 games last season. It really is hard to believe they made the playoffs under those circumstances.)
Jon
January 5th, 2011
12:27 pm
http://www.sportswithjon.blogspot.com
Mr. Brownstone
January 5th, 2011
12:49 pm
Javy Lopez was on steroids the year he hit 43 hrs & left for Baltimore
Marcus Giles was on the juice the year he hit 22 hrs, and was broken down afterwards, generating little power.
Chipper’s power numbers have diminished since the steroid era, and he’s broke down most of the time.
Same w/McLouth.
Reach your own conclusion.
wjones
January 5th, 2011
12:49 pm
DOB, please don’t attribute that above quote to me. I was only responding to it, and snarking about his misspelling Braves as BRACES.
David O'Brien
January 5th, 2011
12:51 pm
wjones: my bad. now I see it was VDeuce you were responding to.
wjones
January 5th, 2011
12:52 pm
“Mr. Brownstone
January 5th, 2011
12:49 pm
Javy Lopez was on steroids the year he hit 43 hrs & left for Baltimore
Marcus Giles was on the juice the year he hit 22 hrs, and was broken down afterwards, generating little power.
Chipper’s power numbers have diminished since the steroid era, and he’s broke down most of the time.
Same w/McLouth.
Reach your own conclusion.”
OK, I see. So Joe DiMaggio was on steroids? Mickey Mantle? George Brett? Cool.
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
12:54 pm
What DOB just did is the blog writer equivalent of hitting a half court shot, or sacking the QB in the end zone, or running a kickoff 102 yards for a TD, or hitting a grand slam on an 0-2 count with two outs in the bottom of the 9th and down by 3.
wjones
January 5th, 2011
12:54 pm
DOB, I had his name above in quotes, but I can’t figure out how to italicize it, which would definitely make it clearer, wouldn’t it?
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
12:58 pm
Chipper was never associated with any steroid rumors (except by goobers wanting to prove their position that he is old).
Chipper has consistently hit for power and average.
Chipper has consistently led the team on and off the field.
Chipper’s numbers have dipped as he has gotten older, proving that he is indeed human and not a cyborg. Every other single person in history has gotten slower and less powerful as they have gotten older. Not just ballplayers, but everyone. Everywhere. Throughout time.
Draw your own conclusions.
Hit A Single
January 5th, 2011
1:03 pm
Changing subject, but I sure wish Dale Murphy would be elected to the Hall of Fame. When Horner was hurt there was no one to hit behind the Murph and teams could just pitch around him. I guess if he had taken steroids he would have hit two more homeruns to reach the 400 plateau. Alomar probably gets in and he spits in an umpires face. Sign of the times! Pride, character and responsibilty mean very little anymore.
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
1:33 pm
Absolutely, Hit A Single.
I have been on the “Murph for the HOF” wagon since day one. His numbers are at least comparable to many who are already in (Jim Rice). If he played anywhere in the northeast, the media would have made him a demigod. On top of everything else, he is a genuinely great person who brings honor to every organization he is associated with.
I had the pleasure of meeting him last year. Shaking his hand, getting a picture, and informing him that he is a true role model was a highlight for me, but it was even more important that I share his story with my daughter who has become a big baseball fan.
Mr. Brownstone
January 5th, 2011
1:34 pm
Ramblingman,
Hank Aaron hit 40 homeruns at age 40
Warren Spahn pitched 2 no hitters AFTER 40
Nolan Ryan pitched no hitters & struckout over 1,000 AFTER age 40
Your conclusion is flawed.
Chipper’s “power & average” haven’t been consistent since he won the batting title; dropping 100 points the following season.
Get off the Braves’ PR Kool Aid & OPEN your eyes !
Mr. Baseball
January 5th, 2011
1:43 pm
Ramblingman,
Jim Rice had a much higher career batting average, & more RBI’s.
Dale Murphy is an AllStar person & a great player; Hall of Famer, No.
Just Pat
January 5th, 2011
1:43 pm
DOB
Thanks for straightening out the Chipper steroid nonsense. Am just afraid that VDeuce and Mr. Brownstone have their heads so far up their butts, they can’t read what you wrote.
Mr. Baseball
January 5th, 2011
1:55 pm
Jim Rice: .298 BA; 1451 RBI’s; 8 100 RBI seasons
Dale Murphy: .265; 1266 RBI’s; 5 100 RBI seasons
If Murph’s career average were higher, I could make an argument for him. I was a HUGE fan of Murph.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
January 5th, 2011
1:59 pm
stinger
January 5th, 2011
2:40 am
“Dan Ugla is 30, birthdate 1980-03-11″
Haven’t you heard? Thirty is the new Twenty, and Fifty-Two is the new Thirty. Therefore, tis I who is thirty. Our man Uggla is barely out of his teens!
The trade, then this, wow, just what great news! Any day is a great day to be a Braves fan, but this one calls for celebration!
Roll another one, just like, the other one…
Just Pat
January 5th, 2011
2:05 pm
Mr. Jeans
If we hadn’t opened all THREE bottles of Asti on NYE, I’d DO that!
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
January 5th, 2011
2:07 pm
You can also add 2 MVP Trophies, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves, and 7 All-Star Games, to Murph’s tally..
Ken Stallings
January 5th, 2011
2:15 pm
Looks like the Marlins gave Bobby a retirement gift after all, but it went to Freddie Gonzalez instead!
This completes the fleece on the Marlins! We traded a utility hitter who had a career season in 2010 for one of the best power hitters in the NL and now have him locked up for five seasons!
Outstanding achievement for Wren!
jim
January 5th, 2011
2:23 pm
Was it a wonder that the Braves made the playoffs because the trio of McCann, Heyward, and Prado plus Melky were the only Braves to play more than 140 games, or was it a wonder the Braves made the playoffs because Melky played in 143 games?
(It seemed like Johnny Venters played in 143 games the way he was overworked!)
GT Alum
January 5th, 2011
2:26 pm
Brownstone -
Steroid testing started in 2005, 3 years after Chipper stopped hitting 35+ HRs a year. Chipper’s batting title year was 2008, the fourth year of the new steroid testing policy.
And steroids don’t really help a guy take walks and just put the ball in play. If you’re implying that going off steroids hurt Chipper in 2009 or steroids stopped helping him in 2009, his power numbers should’ve decreased more than his average. In 2008, 29% of his hits were for extra bases. In 2009, a third of his hits were for extra bases.
In 2008, Chipper was less aggressive at the plate and just put the ball in play. In 2009, he had a stated purpose to try to hit for more power and try to be more of a run producer. He did a pretty good job of it for a couple of months, but then his BA and OBP really started to dive.
And, yes, a handful of great players played well even into their 40s. But a a lot more started to decline in their late 30s, even before the steroid era. Is it possible Chipper used steroids – yes? Is there any more reason to suspect Chipper of using steroids than any other player of his era – no. The only remotely logical reason for suspecting that Chipper used steroids is if you’re assuming basically every player from the 90s and early 2000s took them.
jim
January 5th, 2011
2:32 pm
I was a huge Dale Murphy fan in the 80s, but, unfortunately, I don’t think he was a Hall of Fame player. The career numbers and longevity are not quite good enough. Roger Maris is not in the Hall of Fame, despite hitting 61 HRs one season (before steroids) and having, like Murphy, back to back MVP seasons. I’m not pushing Maris for the Hall, but think he is historically a more significant figure than Murphy. The Hall should be reserved for the likes of Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, and Aaron. I can’t put Murphy into that category.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
January 5th, 2011
2:37 pm
The HOF is supposedly not ALL about what takes place on the field. That’s why Pete ain’t in.
Murph was/is the soul-stirring antithesis of Pete Rose. He was the role model of role models. Add that to his stats, MVPs, etc., I wholeheartedly believe he deserves to be in. He should be the poster-boy for the HOF, IMHO.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
January 5th, 2011
2:46 pm
“The Hall should be reserved for the likes of Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, and Aaron. I can’t put Murphy into that category.”
They’d pretty much be the only ones in it under that criteria..
Have to change it to the Foyer Of Fame.
fanATicaL
January 5th, 2011
2:48 pm
Each domino needs to fall in order .For thier to be success with each decision.In building a team for the 2011 season.No need to be in a rush for a trade for outfield.Until we have an idea of where Schafer/Mcclouth are in readiness for this season.Plus the Royals may want a kings ransom for Cain(at this time).Im more apprehensive about the Ellsworth trade ,Than the money on this contract for Uggla.For all those people questioning age vs performance.
David O'Brien
January 5th, 2011
2:49 pm
“The Hall should be reserved for the likes of Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, and Aaron. I can’t put Murphy into that category.”
They’d pretty much be the only ones in it under that criteria..
Have to change it to the Foyer Of Fame. — Mr. Turnip-Green Jones
Well said, Mr. TGJ. That made me smile.
GT Alum
January 5th, 2011
2:54 pm
Looks like Murph’s hall worthiness will be left up to the veterans committee.
jim
January 5th, 2011
2:59 pm
You don’t have to be in the Hall of Fame to be a good role model. Murphy has a special place in the hearts of Braves fans because of his play and because he was a good role model. (I’m sure there have been Braves players who have been equally good citizens, but did not have Murphy’s talent or attract Murphy’s attention.) Bad behavior (gambling, steroids, being nasty to sportswriters) may keep people like Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Palmiero, McGuire, and Albert Belle out of the Hall, but good behavior is not a reason for voting someone in who otherwise lacks the credentials.
If all the players with careers comparable to Murphy were voted in, it would diminish the Ruths and Aarons. In 200 years there would be so many plaques on the wall, that it would be hard to even find Mays or Gehrig, let alone to elevate them above the Murphys and Beltrans that would be surrounding them.
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
3:04 pm
Brownstone –
Being able to find 3 examples of outliers in no way affects the conclusion. Go ahead and try to convince anyone that Aaron was as fast and powerful in his last few years as he was in his prime.
You try to disparage Chipper by trying in vain to associate him with steroids and when stymied you resort to comparing his stats in 2009 to 2008. Are you now going to tell us you believe he was on steroids in 2008? Or are you merely changing the subject in a grasp to avoid conceding your point was wrong?
Baseball,
I really don’t want to get into a line by line comparison. It’s been going on for years and in my mind the matter is settled that unless you cherry-pick, Murphy’s numbers are, as I said, comparable to Rice’s. Murphy deserves the Hall as much as Rice. If Rice had played in Atlanta and Murphy played in Boston, the situation would be reversed.
Murphy – 7 ASG, 2 MVP, 5 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers, career avgs of .265/30/94, 161 career SB’s, 2000+ hits, 1200+ RBI’s – and his highest HOF % was 23.2.
Rice – 8 ASG, 1 MVP, 0 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers, career avgs of .298/30/113, 58 career SB’s, 2400+ hits, 1400+ RBI’s – and his LOWEST HOF % was 29.4.
The year Rice was elected, he received 76.4% while Murphy received 11.5%.
Can you truly sit there and say that 200 RBI’s and 400 hits, while ignoring 1 MVP, 5 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers and over 100 SB’s, are worth 65%?
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
January 5th, 2011
3:10 pm
In 200-years you’ll need GPS to find ANYBODY in the HOF, Murph, or no Murph.
I also said to ADD Murph’s role-model image to his stats, MVPs, etc.. Could there be a better ambassador for the game of MLB than Dale Murphy? Darryl Freakin Strawberry, I suppose?
jim
January 5th, 2011
3:18 pm
I guess I have no problem with a Hall that has fewer plaques. There is a lot of other memorabilia in the Hall, and I have no problem listing MVP winners and preserving some of their momentos in the museum, but keep the Hall for the truly great players. In the Murphy years, those were Schmidt, Brett, Carleton, Gwynn, (and marginally Dawson?) — Murphy, Jack Morris, and Dave Parker were among the very good of that era that get left out
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
3:29 pm
Where do you stand on Rice, Jim?
wjones
January 5th, 2011
3:37 pm
“jim
January 5th, 2011
3:18 pm
I guess I have no problem with a Hall that has fewer plaques. There is a lot of other memorabilia in the Hall, and I have no problem listing MVP winners and preserving some of their momentos in the museum, but keep the Hall for the truly great players. In the Murphy years, those were Schmidt, Brett, Carleton, Gwynn, (and marginally Dawson?) — Murphy, Jack Morris, and Dave Parker were among the very good of that era that get left out”
________________________________________________________________________
Well, as long as YOU’RE ok with it, I suppose the players ought to be as well….
KB
January 5th, 2011
3:41 pm
Dave -
HOF voting just announced. McGriff fell from 21% to 17%. Let’s start pounding the drum for this guy! The Atlanta sportswriters need to get on the campaign for his candidacy!
Mr. Baseball
January 5th, 2011
3:48 pm
Ramblingman,
In answer to your question, yes.
.298 to .265 over a career is a huge difference.
If Murph had a career average of .265 w/500+ homers, he’d be an automatic HOFer.
Unfortunately, Murph was penalized for playing in Atlanta on some of the worst, God-awful teams baseball has seen. It would have been awesome to see him on the Reds, Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees or other great teams of that era. But we’ll never know.
How does Murph rank w/ Orlando Cepeda, career-wise?
jim
January 5th, 2011
3:50 pm
If I were a sportswriter, I would not have voted for Rice (and certainly not Rizzuto)
Steroids make the post-strike era very hard to evaluate accomplishments, but among the players from the era Murphy played, I would vote for:
Schmidt, Brett, Carleton, Gwynn, Ozzie, Yount, Ripken, Molitor, Henderson, Fisk, Lee Smith
be less inclined to vote for Dawson, Carter(C), Mattingly, Sutton, Winfield
not vote for: Murphy, Parker, Rice, Morris, Cooper, Hernandez, Strawberry, Gooden, Carter(OF) Sutter
I’m sure there are some names I left out and some players that overlapped briefly with Murph but belonged predominantly to the eras before and after.
Kyle
January 5th, 2011
3:56 pm
DOB- that is a very good point about uggla that if he hit the open market he could get something like 7/110. at the same time do the braves feel comfortable with his defense seeing that we have pitchers (hudson, lowe) who are very dependent on the defense behind him. again i love the move for the next couple of years as i think we at least win the wild card but i just hope it doesnt bite us in the butt. like you said tho what choice does wren have? he had to sign him IMO. anyway thanks and keep up the great work
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
3:57 pm
Baseball,
I guess we agree to disagree, then, because I can not carry on a discussion with someone who will actually say that Jim Rice is 65% more deserving of the HOF over Murphy. It’s probably better that we just move on to other things.
Kyle
January 5th, 2011
4:01 pm
DOB- the more i think about it, the more im starting to agree with you. it had to be done and it may prove (at least with the bat) to be a steal
KB
January 5th, 2011
4:01 pm
I like Murphy too, but McGriff has a much better HOF case. Here are some numbers to chew on:
HOW HE COMPARES WITH OTHER HALL OF FAME FIRST BASEMEN
HRs OBA SLG BA
Fred McGriff 493 .377 .509 .284
Orlando Cepeda 379 .350 .499 .297
Harmon Killebrew 573 .376 .509 .256
Willie McCovey 521 .374 .515 .270
Eddie Murray 504 .359 .476 .287
Tony Perez 379 .341 .463 .279
30-HOME RUN SEASONS, FIRST BASEMEN
Fred is one of 18 players all-time with 10 or more 30-homer seasons…of the 17 others who have done it, nine are in the Hall of Fame and seven aren’t yet eligible…that list included only four first basemen (must have played half the games that season at 1B).
Most 30-Home Run Seasons, All-Time, First Basemen
Jimmie Foxx 12 1929 – 1940
Carlos Delgado 11 1997 – 2008
Mark McGwire 11 1987 – 2000
Fred McGriff 10 1988 – 2002
Lou Gehrig 10 1927 – 1937
100 RBI SEASONS, ALL-TIME, FIRST BASEMEN
Fred is one of seven first baseman all-time to record eight 100-RBI seasons (must have played half the games that season at 1B)…those eight 100-RBI seasons are as many as Hall of Fame first basemen Willie McCovey, Orlando Cepeda had combined at that position.
Most 100-RBI Seasons, All-Time, First Basemen
Jimmie Foxx 13 1929 – 1941
Lou Gehrig 13 1926 – 1938
Carlos Delgado 9 1998 – 2008
Rafael Palmeiro 8 1993 – 2002
Fred McGriff 8 1991 – 2002
Jeff Bagwell 8 1994 – 2003
Johnny Mize 8 1937 – 1948
20-HOME RUNS SEASONS, ALL-TIME
Fred is one of only 13 players all-time with 15 or more 20-homer seasons…Of the 12 others on the list, 10 are in the Hall of Fame and the other two aren’t yet eligible … Fred had 14 20-homer seasons at first base, most all-time (must have played half the games that season at 1B.)
Most 20-homer seasons, all-time
Hank Aaron 20 1955 – 1974
Barry Bonds 19 1987 – 2007
Frank Robinson 17 1956 – 1974
Willie Mays 17 1951 – 1970
Eddie Murray 16 1977 – 1996
Reggie Jackson 16 1968 – 1985
Ted Williams 16 1939 – 1960
Babe Ruth 16 1919 – 1934
Ken Griffey, Jr. 15 1990 – 2007
Fred McGriff 15 1987 – 2002
Dave Winfield 15 1974 – 1993
Willie Stargell 15 1964 – 1979
Mel Ott 15 1929 – 1945
Most 20 homer seasons, First Basemen, All-Time
Fred McGriff 14 1998–2002
Mark McGwire 13 1987–2001
Eddie Murray 13 1978–1993
Lou Gehrig 13 1925–1938
POSTSEASON NUMBERS REACHED BY ONLY 3 OTHERS
In 50 postseason games, Fred batted .303 with 10 home runs and 37 RBI…only 3 other players have a .300 career batting average in the postseason with 10+ home runs and 35+ RBI: Lou Gehrig, Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols.
BEST SEASON CUT SHORT
In 1994, McGriff was working on what would have been one of the greatest offensive seasons in major league history; unfortunately it was cut short by the work stoppage. He played in 113 of the Braves 114 games that year and batted .318 with 34 home runs and 94 RBI. In a full season that would have translated to 48 home runs, 134 RBI and 85 extra base hits.
redchip
January 5th, 2011
4:22 pm
A player has stats that drop as he gets older surely must have been on steroids. Of course if he defies all logic and his stats stay the same through his 40’s then he surely he must be on steroids to do so.
Neat situation to find yourself in. Seems like you’re doomed either way. Maybe it’d be better just to take the stinking things and actually get something out of it if you’re going to be accused of it anyway. I wonder how many kids buy into that type of logic because of some idiots who go around smearing peoples names without any proof whatsoever.
It also amazes me to know that somewhere out there an athlete who has resisted the urge to increase his performance, but is having his name smeared anyway has to put up with idiots dragging his name through the mud and lumping him in with others who bowed to the peer pressure and did take the steroids.
Chipper hasn’t always been a model citizen, but unless you have proof, accusations like this shouldn’t be thrown around. If I went on and accused you of child molesting on a public board like this, I seriously think you’d be ticked off and ready to sue. Yet somehow you feel you have the right to accuse others freely and without any responsibility. Yes we have the right of free speech, but with every right comes responsibility. Those throwing around such unproven accusation are just showing how our character as a society has decayed and our educational system failed us.
Maybe this is too much for this blog, but it takes a weak man to take pot shots at someones character, and since he isn’t around to respond the rest of us will chime in for him.
On a more upbeat note, Great job Wren! We’re still in contention for next year, and the future looks bright as well. Thanks for keeping us in the running with the bigger salaries while not mortgaging the future!
Go Braves 2011!!!
RaleighDawg
January 5th, 2011
4:57 pm
Doesn’t bode well for the Chipster that Larry Walker only got 20% of the necessary HOF vote. Chipper has about 50 more home runs and 200 or so RBIs, but otherwise fairly comparable stats – except for all of Walker’s gold glovers and silver sluggers.
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
4:58 pm
Larry Walker did not play 3rd, and that will weigh on the vote
RaleighDawg
January 5th, 2011
5:08 pm
What does Chipper hanging around 3rd base have to do with anything ? Clearly it’s a much easier position to play since Troy Glaus – a former all star 3rd baseman was, shall we say, less than an all star 1st baseman.
Chipper’s – as Mark Bradley noted earlier today about Uggla – is that of BATTER. He’s never been a good 3rd baseman or he wouldn’t have hung out in LF for a couple of years while Vinnie C showed us how playing the hot corner is supposed to be done.
While I don’t know – or for that matter even believe – that Chipper was part of the steroid gang, I do find the folks that want to keep McGuire/Bonds/Clements out of the HOF for a “character” issue but folks skip over Chipper’s character flaw of an 18 month affair and fathering a child with another woman than his wife hypocritical.
Jbailz
January 5th, 2011
5:11 pm
Wow, why are there so many Chipper haters on a Braves blog? We all know he’s going to the Hall and I don’t know why RaleighDawg hates him so bad…?
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
5:12 pm
While it is interesting that Walker’s career average numbers and Chipper’s are amazingly close (.313/31/107 vs .306/31/107), as was noted, Chipper has over 50 more HR’s and almost 200 more RBI’s. As for Gold Gloves and Silver Sluggers, it goes Walker’s way (7/3 vs 0/2). Still, according to the HOF voters, that should be worth at least 50% more votes for Chipper. Just ask Murphy.
Roid
January 5th, 2011
5:14 pm
I’m unsure if the steroid is a character issue as much as it’s a felony issue…
ramblingman
January 5th, 2011
5:20 pm
“What does Chipper hanging around 3rd base have to do with anything ?”
Let’s say that Alomar would never have made it if he played OF and see if that shines a light for anyone.
“I do find the folks that want to keep McGuire/Bonds/Clements out of the HOF for a “character” issue but folks skip over Chipper’s character flaw of an 18 month affair and fathering a child with another woman than his wife hypocritical.”
Allow me to illuminate further for you.
Steroids affect the on-field play, therefore making stats suspect and null.
Sleeping with someone other than your spouse has no effect on the game or stats.
You are saying one of the following things with your statement. Please let us know which one it is.
A. Everyone should be allowed in regardless if it’s proved they cheated on the field to pad their stats. Cheating does not matter at all. It’s all about the records.
B. No one should be allowed in unless they are a saint both on and off the field. Caught plagerizing a term paper in 8th grade? No HOF for you. Jaywalking is equal to murder.
C. Oops, I might be a hypocrite for calling others hypocrites.
So, which is it?
David O'Brien
January 5th, 2011
5:25 pm
RaleighDawg: Larry Walker was a great player, among the handful of the best all-around players I’ve covered, and that’s not even taking into account his big years in Montreal (he went from Montreal to Colorado in my first year as a beat writer in 1995). I thought he was one of the two or three best all-around players in the game before injuries started taking a toll.
But you have to keep in mind, when comparing his stats to Chipper’s, that Walker played 597 games at Coors Field, where he had a .381 career average with 178 homers, .462 OBP and an absurd .710 slugging percentage.
It ended up skewing his entire career stats — he had a career line of .348/.431/.637/1.068 at home, and .278/.370/.495/.865 on the road — great road stats, but quite a large disparity compared to his Coors-inflated home numbers.
Chipper’s career line is .315/.416/.561/.977 at home, and .296/.395/.512/.907 on the road. He’s hit 237 homers at home, 199 on the road.
Walker had an 1.172 OPS in 597 games at Coors, compared to his other home OPS totals of .891 in 350 games at Olympic Stadium and .927 in 148 games at Busch Stadium.
He hit 154 homers in 597 games at Coors Field, and 229 homers in 1,391 games everywhere else.
Like I said, he was a great player, and certainly deserving of Hall consideration. If not for injuries, his career numbers would be even better. A lot better, probably. Dude was a serious five-tool player — great defensive outfielder, baserunner, and hit for average and power. But he and other including Helton have career numbers that are going to be viewed by many writers with the Coors Field effect in mind. Walker played there before the baseball humidor was used at Coors, back when games there often ended in scores like 12-10.
GT Alum
January 5th, 2011
5:26 pm
RaleighDawg -
The Troy Glaus that was here was a shadow of the Troy Glaus from Anaheim. And all star voting usually looks at batting more than fielding. Also, Troy was 4 times an AS 3B. Chipper was a 6 time AS 3B. 3B is considered a tougher defensive position that the OF (other than CF).
However, I have to wonder if Walker’s candidacy is getting weighed down by the fact that most of the numbers that support his HOF case were accumulated in the rarefied air of Denver, and that he had pretty significant home/road splits. Chipper’s played almost all of his career in a park that’s considered neutral if not somewhat pitcher friendly.
GT Alum
January 5th, 2011
5:29 pm
DOB beat me to it.
KB
January 5th, 2011
5:58 pm
Typical. Atlanta sportswriters talking more about Larry Walker (never played in ATL), Jeff Bagwell (also never played in ATL), and Chipper Jones (who hasn’t even retired yet). News flash guys: two former Braves were on the ballot this time around. How about at least mentioning Dale Murphy or Fred McGriff? For those who don’t like to look at numbers, McGriff has quite the compelling case…c’mon guys. These two deserve better.
GT Alum
January 5th, 2011
6:22 pm
KB, I believe Chipper and Walker were brought up by commenters, not by the bloggers. It sounds like you’re very dedicated to McGriff’s cause – do you know the man, or did he do something that affected you more than just what he did on the field? I mean, I love the Crime Dog and would love to see him get into the HOF, but you’re writing letters to voters and pushing the AJC writers to promote his case. You’re going above and beyond the call of duty for McGriff.
Jim in AR
January 5th, 2011
6:39 pm
Fantastic!! Uggla, I think will be a great asset to the Braves this year and in the following years. Welcome to the Braves, Dan. Spring training starts next month. Can hardly wait.
Hit A Single
January 5th, 2011
6:55 pm
You put Murphy in the lineup Rice had and he would have had alot better numbers. He played on some terrible teams. He had to chase balls 4 or 5 inches off the plate. He is in my Hall of Fame.
Kyle
January 5th, 2011
7:50 pm
it doesnt matter when you get voted in, as long as you do. chipper may not be first ballot, but he will get in
Mr. Baseball
January 5th, 2011
7:52 pm
Jim,
Did I read you correctly that Don Sutton & Dave Winfield should not be in the HOF?
Sutton won over 300 games & Winfield had over 3000 hits, two HOF benchmarks.
KB
January 5th, 2011
8:24 pm
GT Alum – I am dedicated to McGriff’s case. I find his situation uniquely fascinating and somewhat disturbing. I look at his numbers and cannot help but wonder why he is so routinely overlooked. I just find it extraordinarily hypocritical to point out the steroid users and fail to mention those that it really affected – guys like McGriff – who played during that era and got whose numbers got overshadowed because of it. It’s maddening. It absolutely boggles my mind as to why guys like Edgar Martinez or Jeff Bagwell would receive so much more support. Part of it is that in Houston, Bagwell has a number of sports writers to support his case. Same goes for Edgar in Seattle. McGriff has modest support in Tampa and none of these AJC guys even mention him. I don’t understand that. My point about O’Brien specifically was that he will comment when somebody mentions Chipper Jones or Larry Walker, but stays strangely quiet in regard to McGriff. Same for Schultz and Bradley. I just wish the ATL writers would pick up the cause for someone who did so much for the Braves in the 1990’s.
KB
January 5th, 2011
8:48 pm
GT – Here’s a very good article from the Tampa Tribune that sort of summarizes my beef with the HOF voters concerning McGriff
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/fred-mcgriff-at-a-disadvantage-with-hall-of-fame-voters-because-numbers/1143742
Bravesfan
January 5th, 2011
9:01 pm
YYessssssssiiiirrrrrr!!!!! I’m ecstatic and couldn’t be happier about this move!!!! Uggla has dominated us and th rest of the NL I’ m so glad he’s a brave now!!!! Let’s goooo Braves!!!!!
Navigator
January 5th, 2011
9:15 pm
Look at the home run leaders during the Dale Murphy era and you’ll see low numbers, generally considered the modern dead ball era and he still hit 398. Roger Maris was never put into the hall of fame (had the career) because he broke Babe Ruth’s single season record. Many writers of the time didn’t like him for it (including the commissioner of the American League, remember the asterisk by the record). Both of these are class guys, and no the hall of fame hasn’t been for the elite for many years, making the exclusion of Maris and Murphy one of selective exclusion.
DC Brave
January 5th, 2011
10:02 pm
Great news on locking up Uggla. 5 years for $62 million for one of the two best hitting 2Bs in the game? I’ll take it. He’s a player who plays with attitude…he wants to beat people. Perhaps that will drive him to get a little better with the glove. Is Hubby still in the organization? He turned Kelly Johnson into a serviceable 2B one winter…would be nice if he were still around to work with Uggla, who grew up as a Braves fan and probably watched the bearded version of Hubby play back in the day.
I can’t see Chipper doing roids…because if he did, he would have revealed it, probably by accident, long ago.
We love you Chipper…hit .300 this year!
Abner Doubleday
January 5th, 2011
10:25 pm
Yeah, Uggla tore up the Braves.
He’ll hit .245, 17 hrs & 65 rbis for Atlanta in 2011
MWC
January 6th, 2011
1:48 am
I say Uggla hits 30 hrs, at least this year. Call me out late…
Ian
January 6th, 2011
1:50 am
not so bold prediction; Uggla hits 45+ HRs and wins NL MVP
wjones
January 6th, 2011
6:58 am
“Abner Doubleday
January 5th, 2011
10:25 pm
Yeah, Uggla tore up the Braves.
He’ll hit .245, 17 hrs & 65 rbis for Atlanta in 2011″
__________________________________________________________________________________
And you base that on what exactly? BTW, you really didn’t invent baseball.
dap
January 6th, 2011
7:55 am
If Uggla did hit 17 hrs for ATL next year, it would still be a vast improvement over the LF for 2010 or 2009.
Trickster
January 6th, 2011
8:37 am
Why didn’t they sign him to a 3 year extension with a club/player option for the 4th and 5th year. This will be another McLouth bad deal in the 4th & 5th years most likely. Nobody can predict the future for Uggla but the Braves are willing to gamble another 25 million ? Baseball economics is sick.
Trickster
January 6th, 2011
8:41 am
VDeuce, DOB put you back under your rock ! Now come back under a different name like you always do…
Trickster
January 6th, 2011
8:46 am
The 3 keys to the season this year are Chipper Jones,Jair Jurrgens,and Craig Kimbrel. Braves need Chipper to play 145 games and hit .300 27 100,Jurrgens to go 15-5 with a 2.50< era,and Kimbrel to save 90% of save chances. Otherwise, just go ahead annoint the Phillies with their 4 aces, kings !
ramblingman
January 6th, 2011
9:38 am
“Why didn’t they sign him to a 3 year extension with a club/player option for the 4th and 5th year.”
Because he would not sign that contract. It’s like asking why Uggla did not sign a contract for 10 years @ $200M.
Trickster
January 6th, 2011
9:51 am
Well then let him go and put those millions into another player (free agent). The team (employer) should dictate the employment not the player (employee).
Trickster
January 6th, 2011
9:52 am
I guess if he starts out like 4 for 40 the headline will will read “Ugly Uggla” ?
ramblingman
January 6th, 2011
10:34 am
“Well then let him go and put those millions into another player (free agent). The team (employer) should dictate the employment not the player (employee).”
They let Drew go and fans howled. They let Tex go and the fans almost rioted. They sign Uggla to a modest contract that is definitely less than what he would have received and the fans still complain.
As to the putting the millions into another player – who? If you are not happy with Uggla getting $12.5M annually, what are your suggestions?
Neither side dictates contracts. That went out with the advent of free agency. It has to be a meeting of the minds. Uggla was seeking more money and possibly another year according to most reports. Both sides compromise and an agreement is reached. This contract is not outrageous by any means, especially when compared to some recent ones (Werth, Hampton, etc.).
ramblingman
January 6th, 2011
10:35 am
They sign Uggla to a modest contract that is definitely less than what he would have received (in free agency) and the fans still complain.
Sounds better when I actually include the entire statement…
S. Alex
January 6th, 2011
11:08 am
Hey guys here is the story…..Yes that was a GREAT move in signing Uggla. Now if Chipper decided to retire this year…boy we can use Chipper’s salary to purchase or trade for a proven hitter or even a pretty good pitcher. If that happens then the Braves will move Prado to 3rd base and look for a guy to play LF or CF. I don’t have any faith in McLouth and I think he was on roids when he played for the pirates.
David O'Brien
January 6th, 2011
11:35 am
Ramblingman, good answer at 10:34 a.m. You handled it with more tact than I probably would have, at this point. Some comments, at this point, are beyond puzzling and closer to flabbergasting.
ramblingman
January 6th, 2011
11:58 am
Tact ain’t exactly always my long suit
David O'Brien
January 6th, 2011
12:58 pm
Link to new Uggla story: http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/01/06/uggla-deal-official-press-conference-at-230-p-m/
Ken Stallings
January 6th, 2011
3:30 pm
Anyone who actually thinks that Don Sutton and Dave Winfield should not be in the Baseball Hall of Fame should just say the hall should be shuttered! Because by excluding players of that rare quality, these people are essentially reducing the Baseball Hall of Fame to a museum devoid of continuing relevance! Those two are players who should have both gone in on first ballot.
In my view, the Baseball Hall of Fame is vastly too stingy with selections. It is without question far more selective than for football and basketball and there is no need for that. The Hall of Fame should accurately record the history of the game through display of artifacts from individual achievements of historical value, but also through focus on the best players of each and every era.
For the decade of the 1980’s, Dale Murphy hit more home runs than any other NL player including Mike Schmidt who is already in the hall. Yes, injury shortened his career. So what! For his era, Dale Murphy was clearly one of the very best players in the National League and that era spans over a full decade. That should be the sole yardstick of eligibility. Not arbitrary numbers speciously applied across multiple generations of players, but by an honest assessment of how players performed in their era relative their peers.
By focusing on other criteria, the Baseball Writers Association of America have created a chilling climate that has unfairly excluded deserving players of the 1980’s, who are significantly under-represented by their presence in the Baseball Hall of Fame. The game changes due to constantly evolving developments in rules, technology, ball parks, training, and health standards.
There was actually one year where the Baseball writers reviewed the entire list of eligible players and decided none would qualify — none! How outrageous is that!
wjones
January 6th, 2011
4:14 pm
Ken Stallings, I heartily agree with your post from 3:30. I think a big problem is that the writers, while they are given 10 spots to vote players in, almost NEVER use even close to 10 spots. There have been circumstances in the past where some turned in blank ballots so no players could get 75% (not voting would not affect the %, but turning in a blank ballot would). Maybe a way to fix this would be to do the ballot like the MVP ballot, where they had to rank players from 1 to 10. No one leaves a blank on an MVP ballot, and that leaves writers the room to vote a favorite a ninth or tenth place vote. It also would perhaps let good players like Lou Whitaker, John Franco, Will Clark, Ron Santo, and Ted Simmons, players worthy of HOF who were nonetheless off the ballot after one year, a better chance of staying around. Maybe with this implementation you would up the number of votes needed, because with a first place vote you would accumulate a lot of points, while a ninth or tenth place vote would not help much. But also lower the floor so good players didn’t go off the ballot so quickly.
One other thing–maybe review the qualifications of the members periodically. While there are extremely good writers on the voting group, there are others who marginally if at all even follow the game. I believe in “earning stripes”, but also in staying current and following the game enough to cast an intelligent vote.