9:10 pm January 4, 2011, by David O'Brien
January 5th, 201111:14 am
Joey, Shawn You’re right I am way above an idiot, I’m a genius. Yall can live in blind denial all you want. Chipper NEVER hit 30 HRs after his steroid MVP season and has been CONSTANTLY INJURED. Even his BA is comparable to McLouth now. Idiots are people who hope a 38 year old who makes 15 million will be able to hit 20 HRs next season!!! I hope Chipper does the RIGHT THING FOR THE BRACES AND RETIRES. IDIOTS come with a REAL ARGUMENT instead of resorting to name calling!!! But there is NO argument for Chipper Jones.
January 5th, 201111:20 am
Awesome!! This is something Wren and the braves really needed to do. We haven’t spent big money on a bat since Chipper’s last contract and this is the best deal the Braves could possibly have hoped for. Its great they were able to get this done now, even though we still have allot of money on the books with chipper, D. lowe, and Kawakami still on there. The good news is hopefully we can look forward to a few more big signings after these contracts come off the books.
January 5th, 201111:21 am
This is wonderful news for the Braves and their fans!! I think Dan Uggla will make the Braves better, not only with what he himself brings to the table, but by challenging the competitive spirit of the other players. After all, they say hitting is contagious.
January 5th, 201111:30 am
Just for fun:
Dan Uggla Homeruns in 2011: Over/Under 32
Dan Uggla Batting Averae in 2011: Over/Under .275
What do you think?
Braves Fan Since "80
January 5th, 201111:37 am
Good job braves! Now it is up to Uggla to perform…… Should he bring a big stick to the TED and some boodies to the seats we can find two good out fielders or one great one based on our needs
Looking forward to Gonzales putting his Managerial stamp on this team….. You can not win the pennant in the winter but you can lose it…….
Let’s give these Cox hater fans something to Cheer about
January 5th, 201111:38 am
i’ll take the under for both. he’s probably in for a slight decline from his 2010 numbers. i’ll go with 29 and .264 (ops around .840).
KyleH – Homeruns – Under (just slightly). Average – Over (I’m thinking .285 to .295).
Braves Reach Extension With Dan Uggla « TheUpperCardNetwork.com
January 5th, 201111:42 am
[...] David O’Brien of The Atlanta Journal Constitution provided information [...]
January 5th, 201111:48 am
January 5th, 2011
Joey, Shawn You’re right I am way above an idiot, I’m a genius. Yall can live in blind denial all you want. Chipper NEVER hit 30 HRs after his steroid MVP season and has been CONSTANTLY INJURED. Even his BA is comparable to McLouth now. Idiots are people who hope a 38 year old who makes 15 million will be able to hit 20 HRs next season!!! I hope Chipper does the RIGHT THING FOR THE BRACES AND RETIRES. IDIOTS come with a REAL ARGUMENT instead of resorting to name calling!!! But there is NO argument for Chipper Jones.”
So Chipper’s wearing braces now? DOB, why haven’t you told us this?
January 5th, 201112:00 pm
DOB – Im not sure I like giving him that long a deal. The deal he turned down from Florida seemed like the right one to me. That is alot of money for a guy who in 3 years should be a DH. I love the move short term but i hope it doesnt come back to bite us. Then again, Im not a big fan of long term contracts for guys over 30 anyway — Kyle
In order to construct teams in this era, you work with the economic system that’s in effect in the game. And the simple fact is, the Braves had to give Uggla at least a five-year deal to keep him, at a time when free agents — he could’ve been one in 10 months — are getting deals of six or seven years. He could’ve just waited and become a free agent, and provided he stayed healthy and had another average year by his standards, he would’ve gotten a far bigger deal than Braves just gave him.
GMs don’t have the luxury of sitting back and constructing a team the way some fans would like to do, fearful of the inherent danger of signing 30-plus players to long-terms deals, or starting pitchers to long-terms deals, or never trading prospects for established players, etc. No, GMs have to work within the current system, or see desirable players all go elsewhere. And they have to make moves designed to help a team win now while hopefully not mortgaging the future, and they have to decide how to walk that line all the time, because in professional sports, teams with winning traditions and competitive payrolls do not have fan bases or owners that want to hear about 5-year plans and rebuilding, etc.
These are just the realities that team-builders have to deal with. They don’t have the option of operating in a perfect world where there’s no need to take risks such as giving long-terms deals to players over 30.
BRAVES FAN 1966
January 5th, 201112:13 pm
joey m i agree with you not my money if thats the case WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CARE ?????????????????
January 5th, 201112:19 pm
Joey, Shawn You’re right I am way above an idiot, I’m a genius. Yall can live in blind denial all you want. Chipper NEVER hit 30 HRs after his steroid MVP season and has been CONSTANTLY INJURED. — VDeuce
Serious question: Do you not have access to reference books or know how to use various statistics/reference sites on the internet?
Chipper Jones was MVP in 1999. You say he NEVER hit 30 homers after that season. Well, actually he hit 36 homers in 2000, 38 homers in 2001 and 30 homers in 2004 (he also hit 29 in 2007).
You say he has been CONSTANTLY injured since his MVP season. Actually he played 156 games the next season (2000), then 159 games in ‘01, 158 games in ‘02 and 153 games in ‘03, before falling off to 137 games in ‘04 — five years after his MVP season.
He played 143 games in 2009 at age 37. You know how many Braves played more than 143 games in 2010? One. Melky Cabrera (147).
(For those curious: In 2010, Brian McCann played 143 games, Jason Heyward played 142, and Martin Prado played 140. That trio and Melky were the only Braves who played as many as 130 games last season. It really is hard to believe they made the playoffs under those circumstances.)
January 5th, 201112:27 pm
January 5th, 201112:49 pm
Javy Lopez was on steroids the year he hit 43 hrs & left for Baltimore
Marcus Giles was on the juice the year he hit 22 hrs, and was broken down afterwards, generating little power.
Chipper’s power numbers have diminished since the steroid era, and he’s broke down most of the time.
Reach your own conclusion.
DOB, please don’t attribute that above quote to me. I was only responding to it, and snarking about his misspelling Braves as BRACES.
January 5th, 201112:51 pm
wjones: my bad. now I see it was VDeuce you were responding to.
January 5th, 201112:52 pm
January 5th, 2011
Javy Lopez was on steroids the year he hit 43 hrs & left for Baltimore
Reach your own conclusion.”
OK, I see. So Joe DiMaggio was on steroids? Mickey Mantle? George Brett? Cool.
January 5th, 201112:54 pm
What DOB just did is the blog writer equivalent of hitting a half court shot, or sacking the QB in the end zone, or running a kickoff 102 yards for a TD, or hitting a grand slam on an 0-2 count with two outs in the bottom of the 9th and down by 3.
DOB, I had his name above in quotes, but I can’t figure out how to italicize it, which would definitely make it clearer, wouldn’t it?
January 5th, 201112:58 pm
Chipper was never associated with any steroid rumors (except by goobers wanting to prove their position that he is old).
Chipper has consistently hit for power and average.
Chipper has consistently led the team on and off the field.
Chipper’s numbers have dipped as he has gotten older, proving that he is indeed human and not a cyborg. Every other single person in history has gotten slower and less powerful as they have gotten older. Not just ballplayers, but everyone. Everywhere. Throughout time.
Draw your own conclusions.
Hit A Single
January 5th, 20111:03 pm
Changing subject, but I sure wish Dale Murphy would be elected to the Hall of Fame. When Horner was hurt there was no one to hit behind the Murph and teams could just pitch around him. I guess if he had taken steroids he would have hit two more homeruns to reach the 400 plateau. Alomar probably gets in and he spits in an umpires face. Sign of the times! Pride, character and responsibilty mean very little anymore.
January 5th, 20111:33 pm
Absolutely, Hit A Single.
I have been on the “Murph for the HOF” wagon since day one. His numbers are at least comparable to many who are already in (Jim Rice). If he played anywhere in the northeast, the media would have made him a demigod. On top of everything else, he is a genuinely great person who brings honor to every organization he is associated with.
I had the pleasure of meeting him last year. Shaking his hand, getting a picture, and informing him that he is a true role model was a highlight for me, but it was even more important that I share his story with my daughter who has become a big baseball fan.
January 5th, 20111:34 pm
Hank Aaron hit 40 homeruns at age 40
Warren Spahn pitched 2 no hitters AFTER 40
Nolan Ryan pitched no hitters & struckout over 1,000 AFTER age 40
Your conclusion is flawed.
Chipper’s “power & average” haven’t been consistent since he won the batting title; dropping 100 points the following season.
Get off the Braves’ PR Kool Aid & OPEN your eyes !
January 5th, 20111:43 pm
Jim Rice had a much higher career batting average, & more RBI’s.
Dale Murphy is an AllStar person & a great player; Hall of Famer, No.
Thanks for straightening out the Chipper steroid nonsense. Am just afraid that VDeuce and Mr. Brownstone have their heads so far up their butts, they can’t read what you wrote.
January 5th, 20111:55 pm
Jim Rice: .298 BA; 1451 RBI’s; 8 100 RBI seasons
Dale Murphy: .265; 1266 RBI’s; 5 100 RBI seasons
If Murph’s career average were higher, I could make an argument for him. I was a HUGE fan of Murph.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
January 5th, 20111:59 pm
January 5th, 2011
“Dan Ugla is 30, birthdate 1980-03-11″
Haven’t you heard? Thirty is the new Twenty, and Fifty-Two is the new Thirty. Therefore, tis I who is thirty. Our man Uggla is barely out of his teens!
The trade, then this, wow, just what great news! Any day is a great day to be a Braves fan, but this one calls for celebration!
Roll another one, just like, the other one…
January 5th, 20112:05 pm
If we hadn’t opened all THREE bottles of Asti on NYE, I’d DO that!
January 5th, 20112:07 pm
You can also add 2 MVP Trophies, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves, and 7 All-Star Games, to Murph’s tally..
January 5th, 20112:15 pm
Looks like the Marlins gave Bobby a retirement gift after all, but it went to Freddie Gonzalez instead!
This completes the fleece on the Marlins! We traded a utility hitter who had a career season in 2010 for one of the best power hitters in the NL and now have him locked up for five seasons!
Outstanding achievement for Wren!
January 5th, 20112:23 pm
Was it a wonder that the Braves made the playoffs because the trio of McCann, Heyward, and Prado plus Melky were the only Braves to play more than 140 games, or was it a wonder the Braves made the playoffs because Melky played in 143 games?
(It seemed like Johnny Venters played in 143 games the way he was overworked!)
January 5th, 20112:26 pm
Steroid testing started in 2005, 3 years after Chipper stopped hitting 35+ HRs a year. Chipper’s batting title year was 2008, the fourth year of the new steroid testing policy.
And steroids don’t really help a guy take walks and just put the ball in play. If you’re implying that going off steroids hurt Chipper in 2009 or steroids stopped helping him in 2009, his power numbers should’ve decreased more than his average. In 2008, 29% of his hits were for extra bases. In 2009, a third of his hits were for extra bases.
In 2008, Chipper was less aggressive at the plate and just put the ball in play. In 2009, he had a stated purpose to try to hit for more power and try to be more of a run producer. He did a pretty good job of it for a couple of months, but then his BA and OBP really started to dive.
And, yes, a handful of great players played well even into their 40s. But a a lot more started to decline in their late 30s, even before the steroid era. Is it possible Chipper used steroids – yes? Is there any more reason to suspect Chipper of using steroids than any other player of his era – no. The only remotely logical reason for suspecting that Chipper used steroids is if you’re assuming basically every player from the 90s and early 2000s took them.
January 5th, 20112:32 pm
I was a huge Dale Murphy fan in the 80s, but, unfortunately, I don’t think he was a Hall of Fame player. The career numbers and longevity are not quite good enough. Roger Maris is not in the Hall of Fame, despite hitting 61 HRs one season (before steroids) and having, like Murphy, back to back MVP seasons. I’m not pushing Maris for the Hall, but think he is historically a more significant figure than Murphy. The Hall should be reserved for the likes of Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, and Aaron. I can’t put Murphy into that category.
January 5th, 20112:37 pm
The HOF is supposedly not ALL about what takes place on the field. That’s why Pete ain’t in.
Murph was/is the soul-stirring antithesis of Pete Rose. He was the role model of role models. Add that to his stats, MVPs, etc., I wholeheartedly believe he deserves to be in. He should be the poster-boy for the HOF, IMHO.
January 5th, 20112:46 pm
“The Hall should be reserved for the likes of Ruth, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, and Aaron. I can’t put Murphy into that category.”
They’d pretty much be the only ones in it under that criteria..
Have to change it to the Foyer Of Fame.
January 5th, 20112:48 pm
Each domino needs to fall in order .For thier to be success with each decision.In building a team for the 2011 season.No need to be in a rush for a trade for outfield.Until we have an idea of where Schafer/Mcclouth are in readiness for this season.Plus the Royals may want a kings ransom for Cain(at this time).Im more apprehensive about the Ellsworth trade ,Than the money on this contract for Uggla.For all those people questioning age vs performance.
January 5th, 20112:49 pm
Have to change it to the Foyer Of Fame. — Mr. Turnip-Green Jones
Well said, Mr. TGJ. That made me smile.
January 5th, 20112:54 pm
Looks like Murph’s hall worthiness will be left up to the veterans committee.
January 5th, 20112:59 pm
You don’t have to be in the Hall of Fame to be a good role model. Murphy has a special place in the hearts of Braves fans because of his play and because he was a good role model. (I’m sure there have been Braves players who have been equally good citizens, but did not have Murphy’s talent or attract Murphy’s attention.) Bad behavior (gambling, steroids, being nasty to sportswriters) may keep people like Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Palmiero, McGuire, and Albert Belle out of the Hall, but good behavior is not a reason for voting someone in who otherwise lacks the credentials.
If all the players with careers comparable to Murphy were voted in, it would diminish the Ruths and Aarons. In 200 years there would be so many plaques on the wall, that it would be hard to even find Mays or Gehrig, let alone to elevate them above the Murphys and Beltrans that would be surrounding them.
January 5th, 20113:04 pm
Being able to find 3 examples of outliers in no way affects the conclusion. Go ahead and try to convince anyone that Aaron was as fast and powerful in his last few years as he was in his prime.
You try to disparage Chipper by trying in vain to associate him with steroids and when stymied you resort to comparing his stats in 2009 to 2008. Are you now going to tell us you believe he was on steroids in 2008? Or are you merely changing the subject in a grasp to avoid conceding your point was wrong?
I really don’t want to get into a line by line comparison. It’s been going on for years and in my mind the matter is settled that unless you cherry-pick, Murphy’s numbers are, as I said, comparable to Rice’s. Murphy deserves the Hall as much as Rice. If Rice had played in Atlanta and Murphy played in Boston, the situation would be reversed.
Murphy – 7 ASG, 2 MVP, 5 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers, career avgs of .265/30/94, 161 career SB’s, 2000+ hits, 1200+ RBI’s – and his highest HOF % was 23.2.
Rice – 8 ASG, 1 MVP, 0 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers, career avgs of .298/30/113, 58 career SB’s, 2400+ hits, 1400+ RBI’s – and his LOWEST HOF % was 29.4.
The year Rice was elected, he received 76.4% while Murphy received 11.5%.
Can you truly sit there and say that 200 RBI’s and 400 hits, while ignoring 1 MVP, 5 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers and over 100 SB’s, are worth 65%?
January 5th, 20113:10 pm
In 200-years you’ll need GPS to find ANYBODY in the HOF, Murph, or no Murph.
I also said to ADD Murph’s role-model image to his stats, MVPs, etc.. Could there be a better ambassador for the game of MLB than Dale Murphy? Darryl Freakin Strawberry, I suppose?
January 5th, 20113:18 pm
I guess I have no problem with a Hall that has fewer plaques. There is a lot of other memorabilia in the Hall, and I have no problem listing MVP winners and preserving some of their momentos in the museum, but keep the Hall for the truly great players. In the Murphy years, those were Schmidt, Brett, Carleton, Gwynn, (and marginally Dawson?) — Murphy, Jack Morris, and Dave Parker were among the very good of that era that get left out
January 5th, 20113:29 pm
Where do you stand on Rice, Jim?
January 5th, 20113:37 pm
January 5th, 2011
I guess I have no problem with a Hall that has fewer plaques. There is a lot of other memorabilia in the Hall, and I have no problem listing MVP winners and preserving some of their momentos in the museum, but keep the Hall for the truly great players. In the Murphy years, those were Schmidt, Brett, Carleton, Gwynn, (and marginally Dawson?) — Murphy, Jack Morris, and Dave Parker were among the very good of that era that get left out”
Well, as long as YOU’RE ok with it, I suppose the players ought to be as well….
January 5th, 20113:41 pm
HOF voting just announced. McGriff fell from 21% to 17%. Let’s start pounding the drum for this guy! The Atlanta sportswriters need to get on the campaign for his candidacy!
January 5th, 20113:48 pm
In answer to your question, yes.
.298 to .265 over a career is a huge difference.
If Murph had a career average of .265 w/500+ homers, he’d be an automatic HOFer.
Unfortunately, Murph was penalized for playing in Atlanta on some of the worst, God-awful teams baseball has seen. It would have been awesome to see him on the Reds, Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees or other great teams of that era. But we’ll never know.
How does Murph rank w/ Orlando Cepeda, career-wise?
January 5th, 20113:50 pm
If I were a sportswriter, I would not have voted for Rice (and certainly not Rizzuto)
Steroids make the post-strike era very hard to evaluate accomplishments, but among the players from the era Murphy played, I would vote for:
Schmidt, Brett, Carleton, Gwynn, Ozzie, Yount, Ripken, Molitor, Henderson, Fisk, Lee Smith
be less inclined to vote for Dawson, Carter(C), Mattingly, Sutton, Winfield
not vote for: Murphy, Parker, Rice, Morris, Cooper, Hernandez, Strawberry, Gooden, Carter(OF) Sutter
I’m sure there are some names I left out and some players that overlapped briefly with Murph but belonged predominantly to the eras before and after.
January 5th, 20113:56 pm
DOB- that is a very good point about uggla that if he hit the open market he could get something like 7/110. at the same time do the braves feel comfortable with his defense seeing that we have pitchers (hudson, lowe) who are very dependent on the defense behind him. again i love the move for the next couple of years as i think we at least win the wild card but i just hope it doesnt bite us in the butt. like you said tho what choice does wren have? he had to sign him IMO. anyway thanks and keep up the great work
January 5th, 20113:57 pm
I guess we agree to disagree, then, because I can not carry on a discussion with someone who will actually say that Jim Rice is 65% more deserving of the HOF over Murphy. It’s probably better that we just move on to other things.
January 5th, 20114:01 pm
DOB- the more i think about it, the more im starting to agree with you. it had to be done and it may prove (at least with the bat) to be a steal
I like Murphy too, but McGriff has a much better HOF case. Here are some numbers to chew on:
HOW HE COMPARES WITH OTHER HALL OF FAME FIRST BASEMEN
HRs OBA SLG BA
Fred McGriff 493 .377 .509 .284
Orlando Cepeda 379 .350 .499 .297
Harmon Killebrew 573 .376 .509 .256
Willie McCovey 521 .374 .515 .270
Eddie Murray 504 .359 .476 .287
Tony Perez 379 .341 .463 .279
30-HOME RUN SEASONS, FIRST BASEMEN
Fred is one of 18 players all-time with 10 or more 30-homer seasons…of the 17 others who have done it, nine are in the Hall of Fame and seven aren’t yet eligible…that list included only four first basemen (must have played half the games that season at 1B).
Most 30-Home Run Seasons, All-Time, First Basemen
Jimmie Foxx 12 1929 – 1940
Carlos Delgado 11 1997 – 2008
Mark McGwire 11 1987 – 2000
Fred McGriff 10 1988 – 2002
Lou Gehrig 10 1927 – 1937
100 RBI SEASONS, ALL-TIME, FIRST BASEMEN
Fred is one of seven first baseman all-time to record eight 100-RBI seasons (must have played half the games that season at 1B)…those eight 100-RBI seasons are as many as Hall of Fame first basemen Willie McCovey, Orlando Cepeda had combined at that position.
Most 100-RBI Seasons, All-Time, First Basemen
Jimmie Foxx 13 1929 – 1941
Lou Gehrig 13 1926 – 1938
Carlos Delgado 9 1998 – 2008
Rafael Palmeiro 8 1993 – 2002
Fred McGriff 8 1991 – 2002
Jeff Bagwell 8 1994 – 2003
Johnny Mize 8 1937 – 1948
20-HOME RUNS SEASONS, ALL-TIME
Fred is one of only 13 players all-time with 15 or more 20-homer seasons…Of the 12 others on the list, 10 are in the Hall of Fame and the other two aren’t yet eligible … Fred had 14 20-homer seasons at first base, most all-time (must have played half the games that season at 1B.)
Most 20-homer seasons, all-time
Hank Aaron 20 1955 – 1974
Barry Bonds 19 1987 – 2007
Frank Robinson 17 1956 – 1974
Willie Mays 17 1951 – 1970
Eddie Murray 16 1977 – 1996
Reggie Jackson 16 1968 – 1985
Ted Williams 16 1939 – 1960
Babe Ruth 16 1919 – 1934
Ken Griffey, Jr. 15 1990 – 2007
Fred McGriff 15 1987 – 2002
Dave Winfield 15 1974 – 1993
Willie Stargell 15 1964 – 1979
Mel Ott 15 1929 – 1945
Most 20 homer seasons, First Basemen, All-Time
Fred McGriff 14 1998–2002
Mark McGwire 13 1987–2001
Eddie Murray 13 1978–1993
Lou Gehrig 13 1925–1938
POSTSEASON NUMBERS REACHED BY ONLY 3 OTHERS
In 50 postseason games, Fred batted .303 with 10 home runs and 37 RBI…only 3 other players have a .300 career batting average in the postseason with 10+ home runs and 35+ RBI: Lou Gehrig, Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols.
BEST SEASON CUT SHORT
In 1994, McGriff was working on what would have been one of the greatest offensive seasons in major league history; unfortunately it was cut short by the work stoppage. He played in 113 of the Braves 114 games that year and batted .318 with 34 home runs and 94 RBI. In a full season that would have translated to 48 home runs, 134 RBI and 85 extra base hits.
January 5th, 20114:22 pm
A player has stats that drop as he gets older surely must have been on steroids. Of course if he defies all logic and his stats stay the same through his 40’s then he surely he must be on steroids to do so.
Neat situation to find yourself in. Seems like you’re doomed either way. Maybe it’d be better just to take the stinking things and actually get something out of it if you’re going to be accused of it anyway. I wonder how many kids buy into that type of logic because of some idiots who go around smearing peoples names without any proof whatsoever.
It also amazes me to know that somewhere out there an athlete who has resisted the urge to increase his performance, but is having his name smeared anyway has to put up with idiots dragging his name through the mud and lumping him in with others who bowed to the peer pressure and did take the steroids.
Chipper hasn’t always been a model citizen, but unless you have proof, accusations like this shouldn’t be thrown around. If I went on and accused you of child molesting on a public board like this, I seriously think you’d be ticked off and ready to sue. Yet somehow you feel you have the right to accuse others freely and without any responsibility. Yes we have the right of free speech, but with every right comes responsibility. Those throwing around such unproven accusation are just showing how our character as a society has decayed and our educational system failed us.
Maybe this is too much for this blog, but it takes a weak man to take pot shots at someones character, and since he isn’t around to respond the rest of us will chime in for him.
On a more upbeat note, Great job Wren! We’re still in contention for next year, and the future looks bright as well. Thanks for keeping us in the running with the bigger salaries while not mortgaging the future!
Go Braves 2011!!!
January 5th, 20114:57 pm
Doesn’t bode well for the Chipster that Larry Walker only got 20% of the necessary HOF vote. Chipper has about 50 more home runs and 200 or so RBIs, but otherwise fairly comparable stats – except for all of Walker’s gold glovers and silver sluggers.
January 5th, 20114:58 pm
Larry Walker did not play 3rd, and that will weigh on the vote
January 5th, 20115:08 pm
What does Chipper hanging around 3rd base have to do with anything ? Clearly it’s a much easier position to play since Troy Glaus – a former all star 3rd baseman was, shall we say, less than an all star 1st baseman.
Chipper’s – as Mark Bradley noted earlier today about Uggla – is that of BATTER. He’s never been a good 3rd baseman or he wouldn’t have hung out in LF for a couple of years while Vinnie C showed us how playing the hot corner is supposed to be done.
While I don’t know – or for that matter even believe – that Chipper was part of the steroid gang, I do find the folks that want to keep McGuire/Bonds/Clements out of the HOF for a “character” issue but folks skip over Chipper’s character flaw of an 18 month affair and fathering a child with another woman than his wife hypocritical.
January 5th, 20115:11 pm
Wow, why are there so many Chipper haters on a Braves blog? We all know he’s going to the Hall and I don’t know why RaleighDawg hates him so bad…?
January 5th, 20115:12 pm
While it is interesting that Walker’s career average numbers and Chipper’s are amazingly close (.313/31/107 vs .306/31/107), as was noted, Chipper has over 50 more HR’s and almost 200 more RBI’s. As for Gold Gloves and Silver Sluggers, it goes Walker’s way (7/3 vs 0/2). Still, according to the HOF voters, that should be worth at least 50% more votes for Chipper. Just ask Murphy.
January 5th, 20115:14 pm
I’m unsure if the steroid is a character issue as much as it’s a felony issue…
January 5th, 20115:20 pm
“What does Chipper hanging around 3rd base have to do with anything ?”
Let’s say that Alomar would never have made it if he played OF and see if that shines a light for anyone.
“I do find the folks that want to keep McGuire/Bonds/Clements out of the HOF for a “character” issue but folks skip over Chipper’s character flaw of an 18 month affair and fathering a child with another woman than his wife hypocritical.”
Allow me to illuminate further for you.
Steroids affect the on-field play, therefore making stats suspect and null.
Sleeping with someone other than your spouse has no effect on the game or stats.
You are saying one of the following things with your statement. Please let us know which one it is.
A. Everyone should be allowed in regardless if it’s proved they cheated on the field to pad their stats. Cheating does not matter at all. It’s all about the records.
B. No one should be allowed in unless they are a saint both on and off the field. Caught plagerizing a term paper in 8th grade? No HOF for you. Jaywalking is equal to murder.
C. Oops, I might be a hypocrite for calling others hypocrites.
So, which is it?
January 5th, 20115:25 pm
RaleighDawg: Larry Walker was a great player, among the handful of the best all-around players I’ve covered, and that’s not even taking into account his big years in Montreal (he went from Montreal to Colorado in my first year as a beat writer in 1995). I thought he was one of the two or three best all-around players in the game before injuries started taking a toll.
But you have to keep in mind, when comparing his stats to Chipper’s, that Walker played 597 games at Coors Field, where he had a .381 career average with 178 homers, .462 OBP and an absurd .710 slugging percentage.
It ended up skewing his entire career stats — he had a career line of .348/.431/.637/1.068 at home, and .278/.370/.495/.865 on the road — great road stats, but quite a large disparity compared to his Coors-inflated home numbers.
Chipper’s career line is .315/.416/.561/.977 at home, and .296/.395/.512/.907 on the road. He’s hit 237 homers at home, 199 on the road.
Walker had an 1.172 OPS in 597 games at Coors, compared to his other home OPS totals of .891 in 350 games at Olympic Stadium and .927 in 148 games at Busch Stadium.
He hit 154 homers in 597 games at Coors Field, and 229 homers in 1,391 games everywhere else.
Like I said, he was a great player, and certainly deserving of Hall consideration. If not for injuries, his career numbers would be even better. A lot better, probably. Dude was a serious five-tool player — great defensive outfielder, baserunner, and hit for average and power. But he and other including Helton have career numbers that are going to be viewed by many writers with the Coors Field effect in mind. Walker played there before the baseball humidor was used at Coors, back when games there often ended in scores like 12-10.
January 5th, 20115:26 pm
The Troy Glaus that was here was a shadow of the Troy Glaus from Anaheim. And all star voting usually looks at batting more than fielding. Also, Troy was 4 times an AS 3B. Chipper was a 6 time AS 3B. 3B is considered a tougher defensive position that the OF (other than CF).
However, I have to wonder if Walker’s candidacy is getting weighed down by the fact that most of the numbers that support his HOF case were accumulated in the rarefied air of Denver, and that he had pretty significant home/road splits. Chipper’s played almost all of his career in a park that’s considered neutral if not somewhat pitcher friendly.
January 5th, 20115:29 pm
DOB beat me to it.
January 5th, 20115:58 pm
Typical. Atlanta sportswriters talking more about Larry Walker (never played in ATL), Jeff Bagwell (also never played in ATL), and Chipper Jones (who hasn’t even retired yet). News flash guys: two former Braves were on the ballot this time around. How about at least mentioning Dale Murphy or Fred McGriff? For those who don’t like to look at numbers, McGriff has quite the compelling case…c’mon guys. These two deserve better.
January 5th, 20116:22 pm
KB, I believe Chipper and Walker were brought up by commenters, not by the bloggers. It sounds like you’re very dedicated to McGriff’s cause – do you know the man, or did he do something that affected you more than just what he did on the field? I mean, I love the Crime Dog and would love to see him get into the HOF, but you’re writing letters to voters and pushing the AJC writers to promote his case. You’re going above and beyond the call of duty for McGriff.
Jim in AR
January 5th, 20116:39 pm
Fantastic!! Uggla, I think will be a great asset to the Braves this year and in the following years. Welcome to the Braves, Dan. Spring training starts next month. Can hardly wait.
January 5th, 20116:55 pm
You put Murphy in the lineup Rice had and he would have had alot better numbers. He played on some terrible teams. He had to chase balls 4 or 5 inches off the plate. He is in my Hall of Fame.
January 5th, 20117:50 pm
it doesnt matter when you get voted in, as long as you do. chipper may not be first ballot, but he will get in
January 5th, 20117:52 pm
Did I read you correctly that Don Sutton & Dave Winfield should not be in the HOF?
Sutton won over 300 games & Winfield had over 3000 hits, two HOF benchmarks.
January 5th, 20118:24 pm
GT Alum – I am dedicated to McGriff’s case. I find his situation uniquely fascinating and somewhat disturbing. I look at his numbers and cannot help but wonder why he is so routinely overlooked. I just find it extraordinarily hypocritical to point out the steroid users and fail to mention those that it really affected – guys like McGriff – who played during that era and got whose numbers got overshadowed because of it. It’s maddening. It absolutely boggles my mind as to why guys like Edgar Martinez or Jeff Bagwell would receive so much more support. Part of it is that in Houston, Bagwell has a number of sports writers to support his case. Same goes for Edgar in Seattle. McGriff has modest support in Tampa and none of these AJC guys even mention him. I don’t understand that. My point about O’Brien specifically was that he will comment when somebody mentions Chipper Jones or Larry Walker, but stays strangely quiet in regard to McGriff. Same for Schultz and Bradley. I just wish the ATL writers would pick up the cause for someone who did so much for the Braves in the 1990’s.
January 5th, 20118:48 pm
GT – Here’s a very good article from the Tampa Tribune that sort of summarizes my beef with the HOF voters concerning McGriff
January 5th, 20119:01 pm
YYessssssssiiiirrrrrr!!!!! I’m ecstatic and couldn’t be happier about this move!!!! Uggla has dominated us and th rest of the NL I’ m so glad he’s a brave now!!!! Let’s goooo Braves!!!!!
January 5th, 20119:15 pm
Look at the home run leaders during the Dale Murphy era and you’ll see low numbers, generally considered the modern dead ball era and he still hit 398. Roger Maris was never put into the hall of fame (had the career) because he broke Babe Ruth’s single season record. Many writers of the time didn’t like him for it (including the commissioner of the American League, remember the asterisk by the record). Both of these are class guys, and no the hall of fame hasn’t been for the elite for many years, making the exclusion of Maris and Murphy one of selective exclusion.
January 5th, 201110:02 pm
Great news on locking up Uggla. 5 years for $62 million for one of the two best hitting 2Bs in the game? I’ll take it. He’s a player who plays with attitude…he wants to beat people. Perhaps that will drive him to get a little better with the glove. Is Hubby still in the organization? He turned Kelly Johnson into a serviceable 2B one winter…would be nice if he were still around to work with Uggla, who grew up as a Braves fan and probably watched the bearded version of Hubby play back in the day.
I can’t see Chipper doing roids…because if he did, he would have revealed it, probably by accident, long ago. We love you Chipper…hit .300 this year!
January 5th, 201110:25 pm
Yeah, Uggla tore up the Braves.
He’ll hit .245, 17 hrs & 65 rbis for Atlanta in 2011
January 6th, 20111:48 am
I say Uggla hits 30 hrs, at least this year. Call me out late…
January 6th, 20111:50 am
not so bold prediction; Uggla hits 45+ HRs and wins NL MVP
January 6th, 20116:58 am
January 5th, 2011
Yeah, Uggla tore up the Braves.
He’ll hit .245, 17 hrs & 65 rbis for Atlanta in 2011″
And you base that on what exactly? BTW, you really didn’t invent baseball.
January 6th, 20117:55 am
If Uggla did hit 17 hrs for ATL next year, it would still be a vast improvement over the LF for 2010 or 2009.
January 6th, 20118:37 am
Why didn’t they sign him to a 3 year extension with a club/player option for the 4th and 5th year. This will be another McLouth bad deal in the 4th & 5th years most likely. Nobody can predict the future for Uggla but the Braves are willing to gamble another 25 million ? Baseball economics is sick.
January 6th, 20118:41 am
VDeuce, DOB put you back under your rock ! Now come back under a different name like you always do…
January 6th, 20118:46 am
The 3 keys to the season this year are Chipper Jones,Jair Jurrgens,and Craig Kimbrel. Braves need Chipper to play 145 games and hit .300 27 100,Jurrgens to go 15-5 with a 2.50< era,and Kimbrel to save 90% of save chances. Otherwise, just go ahead annoint the Phillies with their 4 aces, kings !
January 6th, 20119:38 am
“Why didn’t they sign him to a 3 year extension with a club/player option for the 4th and 5th year.”
Because he would not sign that contract. It’s like asking why Uggla did not sign a contract for 10 years @ $200M.
January 6th, 20119:51 am
Well then let him go and put those millions into another player (free agent). The team (employer) should dictate the employment not the player (employee).
January 6th, 20119:52 am
I guess if he starts out like 4 for 40 the headline will will read “Ugly Uggla” ?
January 6th, 201110:34 am
“Well then let him go and put those millions into another player (free agent). The team (employer) should dictate the employment not the player (employee).”
They let Drew go and fans howled. They let Tex go and the fans almost rioted. They sign Uggla to a modest contract that is definitely less than what he would have received and the fans still complain.
As to the putting the millions into another player – who? If you are not happy with Uggla getting $12.5M annually, what are your suggestions?
Neither side dictates contracts. That went out with the advent of free agency. It has to be a meeting of the minds. Uggla was seeking more money and possibly another year according to most reports. Both sides compromise and an agreement is reached. This contract is not outrageous by any means, especially when compared to some recent ones (Werth, Hampton, etc.).
January 6th, 201110:35 am
They sign Uggla to a modest contract that is definitely less than what he would have received (in free agency) and the fans still complain.
Sounds better when I actually include the entire statement…
January 6th, 201111:08 am
Hey guys here is the story…..Yes that was a GREAT move in signing Uggla. Now if Chipper decided to retire this year…boy we can use Chipper’s salary to purchase or trade for a proven hitter or even a pretty good pitcher. If that happens then the Braves will move Prado to 3rd base and look for a guy to play LF or CF. I don’t have any faith in McLouth and I think he was on roids when he played for the pirates.
January 6th, 201111:35 am
Ramblingman, good answer at 10:34 a.m. You handled it with more tact than I probably would have, at this point. Some comments, at this point, are beyond puzzling and closer to flabbergasting.
January 6th, 201111:58 am
Tact ain’t exactly always my long suit
January 6th, 201112:58 pm
Link to new Uggla story: http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/01/06/uggla-deal-official-press-conference-at-230-p-m/
January 6th, 20113:30 pm
Anyone who actually thinks that Don Sutton and Dave Winfield should not be in the Baseball Hall of Fame should just say the hall should be shuttered! Because by excluding players of that rare quality, these people are essentially reducing the Baseball Hall of Fame to a museum devoid of continuing relevance! Those two are players who should have both gone in on first ballot.
In my view, the Baseball Hall of Fame is vastly too stingy with selections. It is without question far more selective than for football and basketball and there is no need for that. The Hall of Fame should accurately record the history of the game through display of artifacts from individual achievements of historical value, but also through focus on the best players of each and every era.
For the decade of the 1980’s, Dale Murphy hit more home runs than any other NL player including Mike Schmidt who is already in the hall. Yes, injury shortened his career. So what! For his era, Dale Murphy was clearly one of the very best players in the National League and that era spans over a full decade. That should be the sole yardstick of eligibility. Not arbitrary numbers speciously applied across multiple generations of players, but by an honest assessment of how players performed in their era relative their peers.
By focusing on other criteria, the Baseball Writers Association of America have created a chilling climate that has unfairly excluded deserving players of the 1980’s, who are significantly under-represented by their presence in the Baseball Hall of Fame. The game changes due to constantly evolving developments in rules, technology, ball parks, training, and health standards.
There was actually one year where the Baseball writers reviewed the entire list of eligible players and decided none would qualify — none! How outrageous is that!
January 6th, 20114:14 pm
Ken Stallings, I heartily agree with your post from 3:30. I think a big problem is that the writers, while they are given 10 spots to vote players in, almost NEVER use even close to 10 spots. There have been circumstances in the past where some turned in blank ballots so no players could get 75% (not voting would not affect the %, but turning in a blank ballot would). Maybe a way to fix this would be to do the ballot like the MVP ballot, where they had to rank players from 1 to 10. No one leaves a blank on an MVP ballot, and that leaves writers the room to vote a favorite a ninth or tenth place vote. It also would perhaps let good players like Lou Whitaker, John Franco, Will Clark, Ron Santo, and Ted Simmons, players worthy of HOF who were nonetheless off the ballot after one year, a better chance of staying around. Maybe with this implementation you would up the number of votes needed, because with a first place vote you would accumulate a lot of points, while a ninth or tenth place vote would not help much. But also lower the floor so good players didn’t go off the ballot so quickly.
One other thing–maybe review the qualifications of the members periodically. While there are extremely good writers on the voting group, there are others who marginally if at all even follow the game. I believe in “earning stripes”, but also in staying current and following the game enough to cast an intelligent vote.
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