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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,368 comments Add your comment
nolie
December 30th, 2010
7:14 pm
she was a mean little tyke wasn’t she? I know I’m still intimidated
Bat Masterson
December 30th, 2010
7:20 pm
It has been good,thanks.
Braveheart
December 30th, 2010
7:20 pm
Yeah, Wayne, watch when they call Wagner, he’s like I signed those retirement papers back in July, what do you mean they aren’t filed yet? Stringfellow may be hiding it in his pocket, saying, Billy, dude, you’re taking $250K out of my bank account with your retirement
Dadgum.....
December 30th, 2010
7:24 pm
Carroll…..Best wishes for a Happy New Year! Blog friends……ditto. Will check back in now and again.
Rock on…..3 to 1 odds McLouth doesn’t start in CF opening day. I’m getting the 3.
DS1
December 30th, 2010
7:25 pm
WW
I might be wrong, but that was the first thought that came to my mind when I heard he hadn’t filed yet. The paperwork can’t be that difficult, so why would they delay it???
Just sounds kinda fishy to me.
Gotta run feed my face.
Later folks…….
McFann O O
December 30th, 2010
7:36 pm
Braveheart Always remember her first few months on the blog way back when.
Ewgth…I’d rather forget…
nolie
December 30th, 2010
7:41 pm
10 to one he does
keylargo
December 30th, 2010
7:42 pm
Braveheart – What’s the agent fee for a guy making what Wagner does? 5%?
Braveheart
December 30th, 2010
7:49 pm
keylargo, I’m not sure, but when I googled it, and it said something like 2 to 5%
richbrave
December 30th, 2010
7:56 pm
For JAZZ aficionados a bummer, BILLY TAYLOR’s passing at 89 today.
richbrave
December 30th, 2010
8:01 pm
DS1
December 30th, 2010
7:00 pm
and then WW shows!
Who knew?
Maybe a WWF is in order.
GTSteve
December 30th, 2010
8:10 pm
I remember my first time on a blog…but we called them chat rooms back then
tiger297
December 30th, 2010
8:15 pm
GTSteve – so you are post bulletin board days?
GTSteve
December 30th, 2010
8:21 pm
yes , yes I am
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
9:20 pm
I find it my duty to be certain the blog does not go an hour without a post, however meaningless…
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
9:22 pm
And since my previous average of meaningless posts is 73.6%, this will not adversely affect my stats too badly…
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
9:26 pm
Great job of blog maintenance, VJ.
Bat Masterson
December 30th, 2010
9:27 pm
The person that wrote the dialog for Progressive Insurance’s curmudgeonly old man commercial should be ashamed. Terrible ………. okey mc-smokey … what …… skittley doo ? I have no idea what the last thing he says is………….. Tippy canoe and Tyler too …….. who knows……..
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
9:31 pm
Thanks, Tom – I do what I can – tonight introducing LAdy to Cabaret (she has only seen it in bits and pieces before)…
abwright
December 30th, 2010
9:31 pm
You know it’s a slow blog day when the hot topics of conversation are “bunting” and “when will Bean Stringfellow file Billy Wagner’s retirement paperwork.”
Too bad I don’t have anything more scintillating to add.
keylargo
December 30th, 2010
9:32 pm
Venice Jim
I find your 9:20 post to have more content than 93.4% of the entries in December.
Bat Masterson
December 30th, 2010
9:32 pm
Nice work, VJ
Good evening gentlemen
and peace
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
9:35 pm
keylargo – unfortunately, it gets no better for me in July…
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
9:40 pm
– tonight introducing LAdy to Cabaret
VJ, do you ever feel as though you’re Professor Higgins?
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
9:44 pm
Tom – she gave me a fantastic Christmas gift – “Finishing the Hat” by Stephen Sondheim, which analyzes his lyrics through the first half of his career, while also looking at other Broadway lyrics. Now I’m re-listening to all the lyrics I hear much more analytically…
Also, she has introduced me to some more recent things which had escaped my attention…
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
9:47 pm
I’m just hoping for a few fishin’ lures.
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
10:00 pm
You’re such a busy-body.
(McFann)
I know, I know. But what am I gonna do? I should resolve to give that up for New Years, but I’ve already committed to an even tougher one. No way I’d be able to add another.
cabravesfan
December 30th, 2010
10:03 pm
Tom-
Damn- the lures must have gotten lost in the mail…there can’t really be that many Tom O’Hakwe’s in Albany, can there?
cabravesfan
December 30th, 2010
10:05 pm
or even Tom O’Hawke’s
Carroll Rogers
December 30th, 2010
10:07 pm
Dadgum, and the rest of you guys, Happy New Year to you too. I’m heading up richbrave’s way to ring in the new year with my taller (and better) half. I’m sure I’ll check in from time to time and make sure Venice Jim is keeping things going (VJ, as my brother would say, preesh).
Take it easy, guys and gals. (And for once I don’t mean that literally – ha!)
cabravesfan
December 30th, 2010
10:08 pm
Happy New Year Carroll! I will make sure VJ keeps the blog running in your (and DOB’s) absence!
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
10:09 pm
The potential giver of the lures is curently out-of-state visiting her folks and helping to care for her ailing grandma. Our Christmas is still on hold.
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
10:10 pm
HAPPY NEW YEAR, Ms. Rogers
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
10:14 pm
Carroll – Happy New Year! And may Kyrie Irving heal swiftly! And enjoy my favorite old haunts in Richmond (well, you should at least check out Rare Olde Times in the West End)…
Carroll Rogers
December 30th, 2010
10:16 pm
Amen on Kryie Irving! And thanks y’all.
Carroll Rogers
December 30th, 2010
10:17 pm
And thanks for the suggestion VJ. Might have to check that place out. He lives right down the street from O’Tooles which is one of our regular hangouts, but we’ll have to venture to West End.
McFann O O
December 30th, 2010
10:18 pm
Tom O’Hawke—
Tougher than not being a busy-body? Dang…didn’t think that was possible!
Happy New Year! (To you, too, Ms. Rogers!)
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
10:21 pm
Carroll – if you make it to Rare Olde Times, tell Andy (the owner) that Jim McManus sent you – he is an old friend…(who used to play music at O’Toole’s before he bought his own place) – I also know the guys (literally, Guy is their last name) who play on Thursday…
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
10:24 pm
McFann
In a little over 24 hours, I’m going to attempt to give up self-deprivation. Wish me luck.
Carroll Rogers
December 30th, 2010
10:25 pm
very cool Venice Jim. Will do. Thanks.
Bat Masterson
December 30th, 2010
10:25 pm
Happy New Year, Carroll, have a safe trip.
McFann O O
December 30th, 2010
10:32 pm
Tom O’Hawke—
Wow. Yeah, good luck!
OK, another semi-early turning in for me—my battery’s running low…Night, all!
Tom O'Hawke
December 30th, 2010
10:32 pm
I have to do some work, cook, eat and retire for the evening. Early one tomorrow. I hope y’all have a good night.
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
10:33 pm
Later, Thomas (from both of us)…
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
11:03 pm
Breaking in after a half hour of silence to stir the embers in the fire…
keylargo
December 30th, 2010
11:33 pm
I’m just filling in for Venice Jim.
GaSP
December 30th, 2010
11:48 pm
The infamous Jim McManus who got in all that trouble in Vinings, Georgia?
I believe we still have an active warrant out on you.
Where did you say you are again now?
Venice Jim
December 30th, 2010
11:49 pm
That would be Venice, Italy…
Trent
December 30th, 2010
11:58 pm
[This message has been deleted by a Gamefaqs moderator]
GaSP
December 30th, 2010
11:59 pm
well in that case
ciao for now
we’ll just wait till you come back
keylargo
December 31st, 2010
12:03 am
I’m just filling in for Vinings Jim.
Rob from SC
December 31st, 2010
12:03 am
Man this is a boring time for baseball. I can’t wait until Spring Training begins.
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
12:05 am
And, good night, from the Piazza San Marco
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
12:05 am
keylargo – maybe I should set my alarm to ring every hour tonight…thanks for your help…
keylargo
December 31st, 2010
12:07 am
DOB
I saw a movie named A Few Days in September. OK movie with one excellent exception.
Juliette Binochette
She might give your regular squeeze Tina Fey a run for her money.
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
12:11 am
I think you mean Juliet Binoche – first saw her in The Unbearable Lightness of Being with Lena Olin way back when…
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
12:16 am
My bad – Juliette…
keylargo
December 31st, 2010
12:17 am
I noticed I spelled her name wrong as soon as I posted it. I’ll officially turn the blog over to you. It was a pleasure to fill in for you. Good night VJ. You may get lonely.
nolie
December 31st, 2010
12:21 am
wow, everybody is turning in early tonight. Must be cause I wasn’t here to provide scintillating entertainment and solid baseball information.
Sorry I fell down on my responsibility
nite y’all
nolie
December 31st, 2010
12:24 am
Old DOB might just fall for Juliette.
He likes them furrin gals.
Penelope Cruz, Paz Vega, and Salma Hayak all have been mentioned here with lust in his voice.
nolie
December 31st, 2010
12:38 am
Speaking of Lena Olin, anybody ever see Romeo is Bleeding ?
She plays about the toughest villain in a movie.
Three great, heartless villainesses:
Matty walker in Body Heat
Bridget Gregory in The Last Seduction
Mona Demarkov in Romeo Is Bleeding
even meaner than McFann was when she first came here
nolie
December 31st, 2010
12:50 am
must be the new deodorant I guess
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
12:50 am
nolie – Matty Walker is certainly way up on any list…Kathleen and I are about the same age, but I’ve kept my figure a bit better than she has…
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
12:51 am
I’ll try and hang in as best I can, nolie – at least pop in sporadically…
nolie
December 31st, 2010
12:53 am
yeah great movie, but I like the other two roles just as well.
glad you’ve kept your figger Jim, that’s important when seducing younger women
nolie
December 31st, 2010
12:54 am
nah I’m gonna sign off too VJ. Have a great night.
tiger297
December 31st, 2010
12:55 am
well then I’m going to be really bored…
Otis Nixon
December 31st, 2010
1:15 am
Fredi — put me in coach, I’m ready to play!! And I could play better than that Mclouth guy, REALLY!!
ward
December 31st, 2010
1:24 am
Hello every one! You guy’s have a Happy New Year! My New Years Resolution is……..Crap on the Philly fans, and crap on the Philly fans some more!!!!! HA! HA! HA!
ward
December 31st, 2010
1:41 am
To all you Phillies that came on the blog this morning. We Shall see we Shall see little Philly fans!!!!!!!!!
ward
December 31st, 2010
1:54 am
Dream you little Dream Philly fans ,and remember how you won the last World Series!!!!Also remember how Ryan Howard struck out looking last year!! Quit funny, quit funny!!!!
ward
December 31st, 2010
2:01 am
Maybe I should apologize? Not!!!!!!!!!
ward
December 31st, 2010
2:31 am
Philly Aces: The wrong Stuff!!!!!!!
mexican brave
December 31st, 2010
2:59 am
hate philadelphia players and their fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ward
December 31st, 2010
3:10 am
Top Ten list why the Phillies don’t win the World Series.
10. Jimmy Rollins pulls a hamstring running around first base.
9.Utley gets beat up by The Red Man.
8.Charlie Mannual falls a sleep in The dug out.
7.Philly fans boo their own players.
6.Phillies wish they had Werth back.
5.Bumgarner beats Lee, and Halladay.
4.Howard stikes out looking.
3. Nate is back.
2.Lee still thinks he is a Ranger.
and the number one reason for the Phillies not winng The World Series.
1.Roy Oswalt Thinks he is Lee Harvey Ozwalt.
ward
December 31st, 2010
4:43 am
Nite all , and have a good one, and peace……
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
6:30 am
Just a drop in to see if anyone is here – no one who is typing, at least – back in 3 or so hours…
daniel buck
December 31st, 2010
7:22 am
I have a feeling… We sign someone today…
Couch Tater
December 31st, 2010
8:12 am
“There’s a lot of spinning that goes on in sports journalism,” said Leccese, who likened it to the way politicians try to work the media. “[Theo Epstein] can get together with a few reporters and they are going to immediately repeat what he said. There won’t be any time to think critically about what he said or ask some other people about what he said. ‘Is this true? Is this a good course of action? Is there another viewpoint here?’ ”
http://leeinks.weei.com/sports/2010/12/30/weei-coms-thing-of-the-year-how-twitter-changed-everything
B.TATTAGLIA RT @LUCA BRASI – Let’s do lunch! Filetti di Pesce? mmmm!
TommyP
December 31st, 2010
8:49 am
Scrolled through a ton of stuff and nobody mentioned anything ’bout my question from yesterday morning. (think it’s the early morning postings, though it wasn’t that early) Question pertained to how often star players file their retirement papers. The journeymen/average players I would imagine all do it…but what about stars?
And no feeling on Reed Johnson as a RH complement to McLouth and backup to all 3 OF spots? He is average overall but has absolutely raked vs. LH his whole career.
abwright
December 31st, 2010
9:40 am
TommyP … I don’t know the answer to your retirement question. However, I suspect that very few file unless its necessary for contractual reason.
In the case of Billy Wagner, Braves can exercise his option. If he doesn’t retire, he’s under contract with the Braves and needs to report for Spring Training. If the Braves don’t exercise his option, then they have to pay $250,000 to buy out the option.
I remember some years ago that the Braves negotiated (hard) to force Raul Modesi to retire. At the time, I didn’t see why; however, now I understand that the Braves didn’t want to pay the rest of his contract.
If a player retires, I’m pretty sure (see Roger Clemens) that the player would have to get permission from MLB to unretire. So, why would the player officially retire? It can harm the player and not help him (except if he’s under contract and doesn’t want to continue playing).
The next potentially important Brave who might be facing retirement is Chipper Jones. If Jones stinks it up but doesn’t retire, Fredi can make him strap the cleats on every day. If Jones is “injured” (as in Manny-injured) and the Braves put him on the DL, Jones could be involved in insurance fraud if he isn’t really injured. If Jones refuses to play when called upon, Braves could get out of his contract because of breach. The easy way out for all concerned is for the Braves to renegotiate to buy out part of the remaining contract in exchange for Jones retiring.
Couch Tater
December 31st, 2010
9:40 am
The journeymen/average players I would imagine all do it…but what about stars?
I don’t know. It seems reasonable to me that a player with a lot of endorsement contracts may elect to wait until after the calendar year, if there are financial penalties in those deals for retiring “officially” in 2010 as opposed to 2011. Swag on my part… or maybe Swagner.
Couch Tater
December 31st, 2010
9:44 am
I like your “I don’t know” answer better, ab.
abwright
December 31st, 2010
9:59 am
As Braveheart and others mention a page or so ago, I don’t think Swagner cares about the money. I think that Bean Fellow is Stringing the Braves and Swagner along.
Mixxo
December 31st, 2010
10:45 am
Happy NY errybody!
Lets hope we can reduce the LOB # this year. I don’t know if I can stand another year like last year. It killed us!
GTSteve
December 31st, 2010
10:47 am
Good point about the endorsements Coach
keylargo
December 31st, 2010
10:50 am
2011 option guaranteed with 50 games finished in 2010
Those are the terms in Wagner’s contract and he finished 64 games. He is under contract for $6.5 million in 2011.
Retire or report.
jeffrey d
December 31st, 2010
11:09 am
FYI – Didn’t wind up in Savannah, keylargo.
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
11:19 am
jeffrey d – have you been walking in Memphis yet?
Bat Masterson
December 31st, 2010
11:23 am
Okay, I admit when ward first came along offering peace I was skeptical. Then he offered not only peace but high hopes! Well the idealist in me could not resist, so yeah, I jumped on the:
Peace Train_
Now I’ve been happy lately, thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be, something good has begun
Oh I’ve been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one
And I believe it could be, some day it’s going to come
Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country, come take me home again
Now I’ve been smiling lately, thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be, something good has begun
Oh peace train sounding louder
Glide on the peace train
Come on now peace train
Yes, peace train holy roller
Everyone jump upon the peace train
Come on now peace train
Get your bags together, go bring your good friends too
Cause it’s getting nearer, it soon will be with you
Now come and join the living, it’s not so far from you
And it’s getting nearer, soon it will all be true
Oh peace train sounding louder
Glide on the peace train
Come on now peace train
So I’m rocking along on the Peace Train when all of a sudden it begins to shake and I think we are going off the tracks. Something is wrong here, I look out the window and I see this:
My New Years Resolution is……..Crap on the Philly fans, and crap on the Philly fans some more!!!!! HA! HA! HA! _ ward
Now I’ve been crying lately, thinking about the world as it is
Why must we go on hating, why can’t we live in bliss
Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace train
Oh peace train take this country, come take me home again
Oh peace train sounding louder
Glide on the peace train
Come on now peace train
Yes, peace train holy roller
Everyone jump upon the peace train
Come on peace train
Yes, it’s the peace train
So, in the spirit of the season, I say to our baseball loving brethren in the City of Brotherly Love: When the Phillies can’t meet your impossibly high expectations, don’t despair, find your bliss. It’s only a game after all.
ward, I’m watching you, don’t make me kick you off this damned train.
shinburger
December 31st, 2010
11:23 am
i know it wont happen but what if waggs did come back for a final year and we found some money laying around to pay him? we would have one helluva pen!
Venice Jim
December 31st, 2010
11:24 am
Thank you, Yusef..
Braveheart
December 31st, 2010
11:25 am
Question pertained to how often star players file their retirement papers. The journeymen/average players I would imagine all do it…but what about stars
I don’t think Bonds or Smoltz have ever officially retired, or submitted retirement papers, but they weren’t under contract when their careers ended. Wagner is still under contract for next season, hence the need for retirement papers.
Bat Masterson
December 31st, 2010
11:30 am
peace, VJ
and dark rum
Braveheart
December 31st, 2010
11:36 am
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/insider/news/story?id=5971285
The Andruw Jones HOF issue
As we spend the week debating this year’s Hall of Fame class, it’s only natural to turn our attention to current players and begin to assess their chances of reaching Cooperstown. Among active major leaguers, it is pretty easy to pick the ones that will sail into Cooperstown when their careers are over: Albert Pujols, Chipper Jones, Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter are all slam dunks for the Hall of Fame, and each will likely get elected on their first opportunity. These four each specialize in skills that voters have historically treasured: Pujols is one of the great run producers of all time; Jones has built a long, legendary career with one franchise, Rivera dominated the ninth inning like none before him and Jeter has been The Captain on numerous World Series winners. However, the rise in popularity of newer metrics — specifically ones such as Wins Above Replacement — has begun to shine a light on players with a different set of skills, and ones that have traditionally been marginalized by Hall of Fame voters.
By WAR, Andruw Jones (+70.5) has had about the same amount of career value as Jeter (+70.4). Jeter is a stone cold lock to make it to Cooperstown, whereas I suspect Jones might not even get the necessary 5 percent of the vote to remain on the ballot after his first year. Why does WAR differ so greatly from the commonly accepted wisdom about their respective values?
It simply comes down to the value of defense, and more specifically, the credibility given to newer defensive metrics. Jones is given credit for +27 wins above an average defensive center fielder over his career, while the same metrics suggest that Jeter has been worth 11 wins less than an average defensive shortstop. That is a gap of nearly 40 wins and is only marginally reduced when you adjust for the difference between playing shortstop and center, as both are generally patrolled by quality defenders. That statistical gap is much larger than the perceived defensive difference between the two and accounts for nearly all of the difference in their assumed relative worth.
While no one can deny the number of base hits that Jeter has accumulated, the idea of Andruw Jones being in the defensive company of Hall of Famers Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith could certainly be a contentious claim. Data should be used to inform our discussions, but we should not be slaves to the numbers, and there is a reasonable discussion that can be had about the scale of credit that should be given to players for their defensive abilities.
Certainly, Jones should get a significant boost for his defensive chops as he was widely seen as the game’s best center fielder during his prime. He won 10 consecutive Gold Gloves, after all, so it is not only the numbers that see him as a historically elite defender. However, there are enough legitimate questions about defensive metrics, especially those from before this century, that we should be careful with equating defensive specialists with those whose value was created in more traditional ways.
Should Andruw Jones end up in Cooperstown? I don’t know. WAR tells us that we should at least consider the possibility and have a reasonable discussion about his candidacy. But with players like Jones whose resumes rely heavily on our evaluations of their defensive value, we should be careful with our conclusions. They deserve more consideration than they have gotten before, but we must also be wise with how we use the data and not let it draw conclusions for us.
Lew
December 31st, 2010
11:37 am
Lots of tornadoes down Arkansas way. Hope Hillbilly and Transplant are all right.
Lew
December 31st, 2010
11:38 am
Too many really poor years from age 30 on. No HOF for Andruw – defense or not.
Braveheart
December 31st, 2010
11:48 am
Something interesting about Andruw was that he was .222/.311/.413/.724 with an 87 OPS+ his last year as a Brave.
Since that time, in his last 3 years combined, Andruw has been .204/.312/.411/.724 with an 89 OPS+.
Maybe that indicates he wasn’t anywhere near as bad as he was with the Dodgers, nor as decent as he was last season. Given enough time, over the last 3 years, he’s only been as good (or as bad depending upon your perspective) as he was his last season as a Brave.
Lew
December 31st, 2010
11:52 am
Braeheart- I would imagine that had he not come up to Free Agency when he did, looking for a contract as large as what he got from the Dodgers, the Braves might well have kept him. Too expensive for what he was bringing to the table for a salary strapped team bit Druw in the butt.
keylargo
December 31st, 2010
11:58 am
.158 /.256 /.249 /.505 with 3 HR and 14 RBI’s in 74 games.
And there’s what he did for the Dodgers. It cost them $36 million for that.
That’s when I lost all respect for Andruw Jones.