Braves’ Wren on payroll, ownership; DOB’s Top 50 CDs

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3,528 comments Add your comment

richbrave

December 22nd, 2010
9:01 am

And speaking of ‘red herrings’ look at those names that have been posting lately.

Efrim

December 22nd, 2010
9:05 am

TenneseePaul, oh I agree. The main reason I said “see” was because many people thought the Braves were shelling out less than 85 million. But with performance bonuses and such, it was closer to the 90 million that Wren had said they were spending. But I agree with you, this team should be spending more money on the payroll, as well as the draft.

Trickster

December 22nd, 2010
9:06 am

That music list looks like it was compiled by my 14 year-old niece,my 39 year-old wife,and my 80 year-old grandma. Where’s the alternative rock at ?

Mutts

December 22nd, 2010
9:07 am

Trickster December 22nd, 2010 8:59 am When those four go 80-12 and the Phillies win 118 games DOB, you revisit this conversation and remind yourself what four aces can do on a team, ok ?

Why only 80-12? Your “4 arses” should be 92-0 if they are really the greatest starting pitchers of all time.

David O'Brien

December 22nd, 2010
9:08 am

Trickster, you say the Phillies’ four aces will go 80-12 and the team will win 118 games, huh? I’m going to make a gentlemen’s wager with you that neither of those win totals will happen. The Phillies’ four top starters will win 72 or fewer games and the team will finish with something closer to 100 wins than the 118 you predict.

LJ

December 22nd, 2010
9:12 am

for staff 12-13 pitchers, I would not trade even up with Phillies, I like the
Braves staff, including starters, let the season begin!

Tommy T

December 22nd, 2010
9:14 am

Trickster:

How many pitchers in the NL won 20 games last season (or the last five years for that matter)? Times are much different now than when the Orioles had four 20 win pitchers. I’ll bet my wife that the Phils don’t have four this year.

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
9:14 am

When those four go 80-12 and the Phillies win 118 games DOB, you revisit this conversation and remind yourself what four aces can do on a team, ok ?

That’ll be great. It took 128 years for a team to win 116 games in a season. I really, really look forward to the rapid advancement of medical break throughs which extend our lives and at such an athletic and youthful state! I will gladly recall this conversation.

McFann O O

December 22nd, 2010
9:15 am

Trey so true.

:mrgreen:

D. Orlando Ledbetter

December 22nd, 2010
9:17 am

You didn’t list any Lady Gaga.

Dave

December 22nd, 2010
9:18 am

@Tommy T – I bet you’ll bet your wife the Phillies don’t win 1 game this year!

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
9:19 am

many people thought the Braves were shelling out less than 85 million. But with performance bonuses and such, it was closer to the 90 million

It’s all a matter of how one tallies the total. If one tallies it the same way, year in, year out, one will be in the ball park for the year over year change in payroll. From every figure I’ve read, and they are all different, not one of them has been off by 15 to 20 million. They’ve all been within a $5M range of each other, and all consistent in year over year differentials.

Tommy T

December 22nd, 2010
9:19 am

Dave

You must’ve never met my wife???

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
9:23 am

Jim Orr

December 22nd, 2010
9:26 am

Yes, you must spend an irresponsible amount of money on CDs. When do you have time to listen to them?

Trickster

December 22nd, 2010
9:26 am

I’m so tired of this one guy posting under 75 different names. I have to overlook his 50 posts to see DOB’s replies. So DOB, you dropped my 80 combined wins down just 8 to 72 ? I’m a Braves fan. I just face reality instead of being a Braves homer. I’ll split the difference with you big Dave and go with 108 Phillies wins if you care to continue the gentleman’s wager ?

Poorbrave

December 22nd, 2010
9:28 am

Tommy T..who would want your wife, unless its the one Tenn-Paul put up..Just fun son! Have a Merry Christmas all.

Trickster

December 22nd, 2010
9:28 am

I didn’t ask you revisit anything Tennesee Paul. Unless your name is DOB. Put down the pipe and stop all the wasted blogging.

Trickster

December 22nd, 2010
9:30 am

Phillies don’t have to have four 20 game winners if Halladay & Lee each win 25.

Red Herring My Azz!

December 22nd, 2010
9:32 am

“It’s all a matter of how one tallies the total. If one tallies it the same way, year in, year out, one will be in the ball park for the year over year change in payroll. From every figure I’ve read, and they are all different, not one of them has been off by 15 to 20 million. They’ve all been within a $5M range of each other, and all consistent in year over year differentials.”

A great point made by TP. I would say his assumption is accurate. Listed below are the “Opening Day” payrolls of the Braves over the last few years. No one is going to argue that they did not adjust at sometime over the season due to player movement or performance bonus being reached…. but these figures aren’t going to be off by a lot.

* 2010: $ 83,890,334
* 2009: $ 96,726,166
* 2008: $102,365,683
* 2007: $ 87,290,833
* 2006: $ 90,156,876
* 2005: $ 86,457,302
* 2004: $ 90,182,500
* 2003: $106,243,667
* 2002: $ 93,470,367
* 2001: $ 91,936,167
* 2000: $ 82,700,000

stew

December 22nd, 2010
9:32 am

Time to deal Lowe is now. I’d be happy just dumping his 15 million with no return. No need to spend the 15 million yet. Have it in reserve so that when something comes along we have it to use intelligently. Everone says “Lowe gives us innings”. That’s true but pitching a lot of innings with a high ERA means simply that you gave up a lot of runs in a lot of innings. Until his lights out stretch at the end of the regular season and the post season, Lowe was rocked on a regular basis. It wasn’t until he started throwing his slider that he became effective. I think the big three should be Huddy, Tommy, and JJ with Minor and Beachy as 4th and 5th starters and Meds, Julio, Randall, and Arodys in the wings. I don’t want Prado to play third. Prado is basically punch and judy. If Chip can’t cut it, I want a power hitting third baseman (Zimmermann or McGehee). Anyway, Lowe to Yanks just for salary relief and payroll wiggle room.

timthebrave

December 22nd, 2010
9:34 am

DOB, Just want to say keep up the great work! Thanks for writing a blog with new information instead of just rehashed opinions. Also thanks for the list of new cd’s to check out. Go Braves!

Justafan

December 22nd, 2010
9:34 am

TennesseePaul, its not how much you spend its what you spend it on. Value for Value=winner.

Red Herring My Azz!

December 22nd, 2010
9:34 am

Danga

December 22nd, 2010
9:35 am

if Halladay & Lee each win 25.

They won’t. Halladay managed 21 last season and his career best is 22. This is a guy who eats up decisions, too. Lee only started 28 games last season. You can expect them to pitch very well, but to expect them to win 25 would assume that the team behind them is going to be better. I don’t see that happening.

GTSteve

December 22nd, 2010
9:37 am

I’ll take the under on 108

Stop Talking and Win Wren

December 22nd, 2010
9:37 am

Wren keeps saying we can win with our payroll. Time to show us some results. Yeah we made the playoffs but we also blew a division lead and got embarassed by the Giants in the process. Our farm system is full of good arms but what about bats?

We have owners that do not even attend games and only speak to the executives a few times a year? Wren can say we have great owners all he wants but every Braves fan knows he is FOS.

O.J.

December 22nd, 2010
9:38 am

Trickster, what on earth makes you think these 4 guys are going to go above and beyond their career numbers and put up numbers such as you speak. I mean, if you take the career averages for all 4 pitchers and add them up, you come up with a win total of 63-37, if you want to get more into it and go by what they did just this past year, their combined record is 58-43.

timthebrave

December 22nd, 2010
9:38 am

Got some good concerts coming up. Going to North Mississippi All Stars, John Prine and Old Crow, and Linkin Park. Got 4th road to John Prine and Old Crow…..and I’m off from noon today until Jan 4. Life is good

Justafan

December 22nd, 2010
9:39 am

alot can happen between now and the end of next season..just watch. I’ll say 101 at most.

O.J.

December 22nd, 2010
9:39 am

Stop Talking and Win Wren, how about this past year when we won the Wild card with the current payroll, those results arent good enough for ya?

Danga

December 22nd, 2010
9:40 am

Wren can say we have great owners all he wants but every Braves fan knows he is FOS.

Compared to the owners of the Marlins, Royals, and Pirates we have it pretty good. I could be better, but it could be worse also. This team is competitive.

Red Herring My Azz!

December 22nd, 2010
9:42 am

* 2010: $ 83,890,334
* 2009: $ 96,726,166
* 2008: $102,365,683
* 2007: $ 87,290,833
* 2006: $ 90,156,876
* 2005: $ 86,457,302
* 2004: $ 90,182,500
* 2003: $106,243,667
* 2002: $ 93,470,367
* 2001: $ 91,936,167
* 2000: $ 82,700,000

I sometimes get away from the point I was trying to make initially. You can look at the payroll figures over the years and see a fluctuation. I don’t have an issue with that. MY ISSUE is that when Wren and McQuirk say they aren’t cutting payroll and in fact do cut payroll……. thats a bald faced lie! If you are going to cut it, then tell me you are cutting. Don’t pee down my back and tell me it’s raining!

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
9:48 am

I will bet that Lee and Hallday combined do NOT get 40 wins

Speaking of value, how valuable has Brian McCann been to this franchise, his WAR values are near $100M in a career where he been paid to date what $12M or so, incredible, now I just hope the cheap bastards at Liberty realize that and sign him again to extend after 2013, go after him now before the Yankees see blood in the water and offer him crazy $$ like Mauer got

Tech Sucks

December 22nd, 2010
9:55 am

How the Hell can you not have Zac Brown Band’s newest album on your top 50 of the year. That’s criminal…

O.J.

December 22nd, 2010
9:56 am

dogsbrekky, dont talk like that, the thought of Mac in a Yanks uni just made me cringe.

Efrim

December 22nd, 2010
9:59 am

Good article from Fan Graph’s Dave Cameron on Buyers and Sellers markets this offseason:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-two-markets/

bruce mac

December 22nd, 2010
9:59 am

It won’t matter Frank, the idiots on this blog will still post on every subject involving the Braves that our ownership doesn’t spend enough money. These same fools go to one game a month or never and have no concept of business. I think it is called the ignorance of repetition. If enough people say it, it must be true.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:00 am

OJ – I think we have options for 2 years after 2011 for $9M or so and $13 or so (one is versting) but if we could go and say well we will sign you for 2012-2017 for say $70M that may get it done, cause on the free market at current rates, he may well be the most valuable player at his position out there not named Pujols

Lemke's Knuckleball

December 22nd, 2010
10:03 am

Trickster…

The only way you can say Avery wasn’t as much an ace as Cliff Lee is by using revisionist history based on how his career fizzled out. From 91-93, Avery actually did more in the regular season than Lee has done in any three year span and his postseason performances, while not quite as extraordinary as Lee’s, were still very comparable.

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
10:04 am

Another day and Lowe is hanging on.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:07 am

1991-1993 Avery was every bit as great as the big 3

bruce mac

December 22nd, 2010
10:12 am

Hea Red H, look at the attendance trend in those years, you Jack Wagon.

O.J.

December 22nd, 2010
10:12 am

Arkansas Transplant, as much as i hate to say it, Lowe isnt going anywhere.

McFann O O

December 22nd, 2010
10:13 am

dogsbrekky sign him again to extend after 2013

Sounds good. I’m for that.

And yes, don’t mention him and the Yankees in the same sentence unless you’re talking about him cleaning the Yankees’ clocks!!

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
10:13 am

O.J.

Unfortunately your probably correct, but a man can always dream. I think we should sell high.

Steve McP

December 22nd, 2010
10:19 am

I saw yesterday that Moe Berg and Snotboogie were discussing the relevant merits of Sachin Tendulkar and Don Bradman, for me there is no question that the Don was and always will be the best batsman ever, to have a Test average of 99.96 (and he was out for a duck in his last Test innings) is astonishing. had he played the number of Tests that modern players have (his career was shortened by the war and he was so ill in 1936 that many thought he would not be able to travel to England) his records would be unattainable. By the way for an Englishman to say this is a further tribute to the greatest batsman ever.

Lemke's Knuckleball

December 22nd, 2010
10:20 am

One missing piece can have a huge impact on a team. In football, the net effect of having a below average quarterback is the defense drops the safety down to smother the run game. Then you can’t move the ball at all (go ask the Carolina Panthers about this).

I would loosely compare this to the situation of the Braves not having a legitimate right-handed power hitter these past few years. That one missing piece has had a domino effect on the entire lineup. So in my opinion, having Uggla now will have a more dramatic impact on the offensive punch of this team than most are willing to consider. It’ll have a ripple effect throughout the lineup (Chipper won’t have to try to hit for power, McCann should see better pitches, etc). We all got a glimpse during May-June of last year of how well this team played when Glaus was healthy enough to fill that role. So I am very optimistic that the offense will hold up it’s end of the bargain this year.

Also, keep in mind, the last time we had that guy (Tex), we also had the likes of Buddy Carlyle, Jorge Campillo, Chuck James, Kyle Davies, Charlie Morton and JoJo Reyes starting over 50% of the time.

RemoW

December 22nd, 2010
10:22 am

Trickster: I have actually beaten 4 aces in poker on 2 separate occasions. Straight flush trumps all but a higher straight flush. Post season is a crap shoot based on who is hot. Lee just lost 2 games in the World Series.

O-me

December 22nd, 2010
10:23 am

bruce mac, these same fools go to one game a month or never and have no concept of business.

Who the help do you think you are to make such a stupid statement? If bloggers make a statement of opinion its there right where they attend games are not. Plus what does attending games have to do with go business decisions.
I think your statement applies to you!

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:24 am

Itmwas interesting last night – I was watching Hot Stove on the MLB Network (Gant was on) and they evaluated the best rotations in the NL and they didn’t even mention the Braves.

Of course all sorts of love was given to the Phillies and their Four Number One starters (actually the first time anyone accused Hamels of that). And of course the Giants were mentioned (who only beat us doe to errors). Of course the Cards were mentioned (despite where they finished las year even with their top thre). The fourth team was the Brewers.

Of course Grienke does improve the Brew Crew, but the rest of that rotation couldn’t even make it as a WC contender last year – no better than a third place finish in their division. Grienke won’t really change that, IMO.

Oh well. Being the underdog rarely hurts. Guess that’s why they play the games.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:26 am

Steve McP – statistically, Bradman rates as the BEST sportsman EVER, not sure how they compare cricket to other spots but I have seen many boffin tests where he rates 1, the next average to Bradmans 99.94 was I think one of the South African’s (Pollock ??) at about 60 and the 2 great English deprerssion era guys Headley and Sutcliffe at about 60, on a bell curve Bradman is the far far outlier

Personally, I always thought Edwin Moses was right up there, he was unbeatable at the 400m hurdles

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
10:27 am

Wonder why there’s been no discussions of signing Webb, he’ll more than likely command a very incentive laiden deal. I’d think he would come with a low risk, high reward type of contract. As it looks now, doesn’t look like the remaining payroll is going to go towards signing another outfielder and there really isn’t much talent available else where on the FA market.

So I would think if your looking for impact from the remaining FA’s available? Webb would have to be the best bet.

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:28 am

Transplant – Well, it does appear as if you”ve been smoking something if you think they’ll trade Lowe. Is that what you mean by selling high?

Nick

December 22nd, 2010
10:29 am

Ha,ha,ha. Love it. Even dob admits the phillies will win 100 or something close. The braves will not be nine wins better than last season, maybe 95 wins tops. You lose, losers. Better hope for the wild-card. Ha,ha,ha.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

December 22nd, 2010
10:29 am

People have been comparing the 2011 Phillies rotation to the 1997 Braves. I think most people forget the 4th best starter Denny Neagle was the only 20 game winner on that staff. I can’t see Cole Hamels winning 20 games. Not sure how many wins they can get between them but topping the 68 number that the 97 Braves put up would be quite an accomplishment. Not sure they can do it but it should be close.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:30 am

ARK Tplnt – discussions on NY radio about Brandon Webb said his stuff has GONE and he cannot get his fastball above 86 regularly, Yankees who are desperate for pitching wouldnt even offer him a low starting contract with incentives .. I assume this was seen at his try outs with the various clubs

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:30 am

And as for Wren being FOS – You di perhaps realize that in 08 we finished with a 78 win season – below .500 and within two years of that Wren rebuilt the rotation and improved the Braves two consecutive years, culminating in a 91 win season last year and a return to the playoffs?

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
10:30 am

Lew,

The Brewers also traded to acquire Shaun Marcum. I think they may be overvaluing him a little but I know they seem to think he’ll play a big part of that rotation.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:32 am

Lew – we only won 72 in 2008, 78 would have looked gr8

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
10:33 am

dogsbrekky

He’s still not at full strength yet from what I’m hearing but should be by the start of spring training and there’s also the possibility of him signing a minor league deal as well.

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:34 am

dogs – Yeah, and now that Lee has signed with the Phillies, the NY Talk people think he’s worse than Webb. I wouldn’t read too much into what they say.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:35 am

ARK TRP – My cuz is at Yankees and they werenot impressed by medicals or the “stuff” shown given his progress

McFann O O

December 22nd, 2010
10:35 am

Lew Of course all sorts of love was given to the Phillies and their Four Number One starters (actually the first time anyone accused Hamels of that). And of course the Giants were mentioned (who only beat us doe to errors). Of course the Cards were mentioned (despite where they finished las year even with their top thre). The fourth team was the Brewers.

:roll:

Well, that’s better than to get all the attention and fall flat on your face. If you get no attention and go nowhere people don’t pounce on you quite the same way…and if you get no attention and kick tail, that’s just about the best the game has to offer! :)

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:35 am

OK, then Wren improved the team even more. Thought we were a better bad than all that.

timthebrave

December 22nd, 2010
10:36 am

Just got falcons playoff tickets…woo hoo

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:39 am

Transplant – I’d still not pencil the Brewers in for more than a 3rd place finish in their division. Their rotation still isn’t all that and they gave up some talent to get Grienke. Still not sold on the Brewers. A lot of their season may depend on whether the Reds can repeat their 2010 performance or not. The Cards will still be better than the Brewers, too. Have to see about the Cubs – their track record isnt great, but they usually can come up with the bucks.

dogsbrekky

December 22nd, 2010
10:39 am

Everyone in the media underrates and undervalues Jair Jurrjens, well those who actually even know who he is, imagine his 2008-2009 if he were a Yankee, he would have won 24 games

Red Herring My Azz!

December 22nd, 2010
10:40 am

“Hea Red H, look at the attendance trend in those years, you Jack Wagon.”

So you’re saying that attendance trends gives ownership the justification to lie about payroll?

Or is it that reading comprehension is not your strongest trait?

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
10:42 am

Lew,
I also think it will depend on whether or not they decide to move Fielder. I’d think he’d leave a big hole in that lineup.

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:43 am

They actually Lied to you? How terrible. They didn’t tell you the truth on how many millions of dollars of someone else’s money that likely didn’t even include the price of a ticket from you, that they planned to spend? I’m sure you could fabricate a reason to sue them.

Soph

December 22nd, 2010
10:45 am

timthebrave – lucky! Heard they sold out within a few minutes.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

December 22nd, 2010
10:48 am

One year ago today (December 22, 2009)

The Braves trade Javy Vasquez and Boone Logan to the Yanks in exchange for Melky Cabrera, cash and prospects Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino.

njbraves

December 22nd, 2010
10:51 am

The problem with the Braves rotation is that they don’t have any dominant starters. They have four very capable pitchers, but no truly dominant, shut down guy. Halladay and Lee are aces, with Hamels and Oswalt solid #2’s. I feel that the Braves have one borderline ace, Huddy, two solid #2’s, and a 3 in Lowe.

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
10:51 am

its not how much you spend its what you spend it on. Value for Value=winner

True. It’s great to know that value for value is considered acceptable when Garret Anderson is hired as opposed to say, Matt Holliday. But in truth, the reasons given for such moves are, the Matt Holliday’s of the game are too expensive… ie. unaffordable. despite a $20M decrease in inflation adjusted payroll.

DAP

December 22nd, 2010
10:54 am

lemke’s knuckler the Braves not having a legitimate right-handed power hitter these past few years. That one missing piece has had a domino effect on the entire lineup. So in my opinion, having Uggla now will have a more dramatic impact on the offensive punch of this team than most are willing to consider.

i totally agree. on paper, ive got the braves scoring 800 runs, which would be a 60 run improvement over last year. thats fairly significant, but i think adding uggla, and the fact that he will be right in the middle of the lineup, will do that for the braves.

lew, im actually shocked that the brewerws were mentioned when talking about top NL rotations and the braves werent. are you kidding me? thats crazy.

MFin04

December 22nd, 2010
10:54 am

Anyone see the interview with Chipper Jones at the Hawks Magic game the other night?

Sounded pretty confident in his rehab and was excited to start hitting again soon.

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
10:56 am

Good to see so far Gabriel’s followed his own advice.

richbrave

December 22nd, 2010
10:56 am

FALL BALL

DOMINICAN

DH DIORY HERNANDEZ 1-5, 2 R, 1 2B (7), 1 SO, .304 BA. Diory was out of the line-up for about a week and his bat has cooled somewhat since his return.

LF WILKIN CASTILLO 0-4.261 BA pretty much the same as when he arrived as a BRAVE.

PH/DH MAURO ‘45′ GOMEZ 0-1, 1 SO, .279 BA. He’s back after an extremely long two-week lay-off. Don’t know if it was due to injury or because his bat grew very cold starting Dec. 2.

RH/RP JAIRO ASENCIO 1.0 IP, 1 H, 2.91 ERA.

MEXICO

‘THE FLAILING CUBAN’ goes yard (10), but other-wise has a rough night at the plate (1-6). He of course scores a run, and as it was a solo blast collects his 43rd RBI. 1 SO, as his BA falls to .310. Her’s lost fifty points on his BA in the past month. Pretty typical for him. Just not consistantly a great hitter.

PUERTO RICO

C ORLANDO MERCADO 0-4, 1 SO, .284 BA.

ernesto

December 22nd, 2010
10:58 am

Where did Glaus end up? Or did he?

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
10:58 am

TenPaul – You can rant and rave all you wan about value and the like, but when you have a payroll (inflation adjusted or not) of around $90 million, you can’t add a salary for one player that is more than 20% of that payroll. Just the way it is.

Y’all act like it’s no problem for someone to just fork out another $10-20 million, but sometimes it’s not practical even if you’re rich. Time to face facts that most teams will never have the payroll levels of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels or Phillies (and I’m betting the Phillies’ payroll doesn’t remain that high indefinitely) and that constantly griping about it will do absolutely nothing to solve what you see as a problem.

The only thing that would provide equity is a capped payroll for all of MLB – and we know that ain’t happening anytime soon. So either accept it or find a team that spends as much as you think they should cause its likely the only way y’all will ever be happy.

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
11:00 am

DAP – NO, I’m dead serious and considering Ron Gant was there talking about playing behind Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz, that they’d at least have us at number four………not so though.

richbrave

December 22nd, 2010
11:00 am

“…….Don’t pee down my back and tell me it’s raining!…….” redherring my azz!

So you’re an ‘OUTLAW JOSIE WALES’ aficionado then?

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
11:03 am

im actually shocked that the brewerws were mentioned when talking about top NL rotations and the braves werent. are you kidding me? thats crazy.

It doesn’t surprise me much. Jurrjens was injured last year, which makes it hard to point to him for 2011 “ace” material. Lowe hasn’t been an “ace” for a full season in quite a while, if ever. Obviously there is a lot of uncertainty about Beachy/Minor, they both look like they could be good, but do not have a full season of Major league experience. That leaves only Hudson and Hanson. Hudson, the saying will go, is bound to regress some (though I’m certain he’ll still be very good). And Hanson’s knock is “he’s inconsistent”.

The other teams don’t appear to have has many question marks. It’s all “on-paper” analysis. And it’s baseball. Anything can happen.

Efrim

December 22nd, 2010
11:05 am

Buster Olney ranked the Top 10 starting rotations in baseball:

1. Philadelphia Phillies
2. San Francisco Giants
3. Oakland Athletics
4. Tampa Bay Rays
5. Boston Red Sox
6. Milwaukee Brewers
7. Detroit Tigers
8a. Atlanta Braves
8b. St. Louis Cardinals
10a. Los Angeles Dodgers
10b. Chicago White Sox

I think the A’s are high. And the Braves are too low.

richbrave

December 22nd, 2010
11:06 am

njbraves

December 22nd, 2010
10:51 am
“…….The problem with the Braves rotation is that they don’t have any dominant starters. They have four very capable pitchers, but no truly dominant, shut down guy. Halladay and Lee are aces, with Hamels and Oswalt solid #2’s. I feel that the Braves have one borderline ace, Huddy, two solid #2’s, and a 3 in Lowe……”

To my way of thinking, the problem is in YOUR head. I’m sure you feel the same about mine.

How about the BRAVES pen vs. the PHILLIES? And to continue on, the best starting five position players and the bench. As I have said before, I believe any separation between the PHILLIES and the BRAVES comes lower in the line-up at the six-seven slots. If IBANEZ and RUIZ outdo JONES and McLOUTH then the PHILLIES have an edge, but that’s it in my book. We’ll see won’t we? Let the games begin.

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
11:07 am

Lew: it will do absolutely nothing to solve what you see as a problem.

True, but that never stopped you from griping about Nate McLouth last year. Not sure why it suddenly applies to this topic.

DAP

December 22nd, 2010
11:07 am

10paul. yeah, but the brewers? i just dont see it there. i think their rotation can officially be called overrated, if theyve been ranked 4th in the NL.

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
11:08 am

I’d probably put the Braves in the top 5 for sure in the NL, but they definitely aren’t in the top 3 slots.

richbrave

December 22nd, 2010
11:10 am

Red Herring My Azz!

December 22nd, 2010
10:40 am
“Hea Red H, look at the attendance trend in those years, you Jack Wagon.”

“…….So you’re saying that attendance trends gives ownership the justification to lie about payroll?

Or is it that reading comprehension is not your strongest trait?………”

So did you read the article in this blog regarding payroll, or did you just not believe it?

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
11:12 am

One thing commenting that a player isn’t as good as a lot of people think he is, when he hasn’t shown it before as an argument of a current situation – quite another consistently griping about a situation that has existed for a decade or more and won’t be getting better.

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
11:12 am

I’d have to admit, the Brewers do have a very capable rotation. Possibly with more upside than the Braves but it’d be more of a wash in my book.

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
11:14 am

I’m glad the Mclouth issue hasn’t been around a decade.

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
11:14 am

DAP: I could see an over-rated tag being applied to them… but Yovani is pretty good. I’d love to have him on the Braves team. Marcum appears to be improving… or the Jays sold high on him… and Grienke is a great pitcher. Don’t care much for Wolf, but he’s not a terrible number four starter… eats a lot of innings and turns in approx league average work, much like Lowe.

They have depth in the rotation which is good and boosts them up there. They picked up two pitchers in the off-season that are or could be very good in the NL. Last year they only really had one good pitcher, Yovani with average Wolf. Now they have potentially three good pitchers with average Wolf.

Lew

December 22nd, 2010
11:14 am

And yes, I did gripe about Nate all of last year. You’ve been going on about the payroll for at least six seasons I’m aware of.

Hillbilly

December 22nd, 2010
11:15 am

Now I have
A Machine Gun
HO-HO-HO

ramblingman

December 22nd, 2010
11:16 am

“Wren can say we have great owners all he wants but every Braves fan knows he is FOS.”

You know it’s a junk statement when it includes such statements as “everyone knows” or “no one will disagree”. I am a Braves fan, so don’t tell people what I know. I can do that.

“One year ago today (December 22, 2009) The Braves trade Javy Vasquez and Boone Logan to the Yanks in exchange for Melky Cabrera, cash and prospects Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino.”

And 5 minutes later, the heads of several bloggers exploded.

“So you’re an ‘OUTLAW JOSIE WALES’ aficionado then?”

Or Judge Judy…

richbrave

December 22nd, 2010
11:18 am

Efrim

December 22nd, 2010
11:05 am
Buster Olney ranked the Top 10 starting rotations in baseball:

1. Philadelphia Phillies
2. San Francisco Giants
3. Oakland Athletics
4. Tampa Bay Rays
5. Boston Red Sox
6. Milwaukee Brewers
7. Detroit Tigers
8a. Atlanta Braves
8b. St. Louis Cardinals
10a. Los Angeles Dodgers
10b. Chicago White Sox

Well, if BUSTER says it, then it’s settled. We don’t have a chance against the PHILLIES.

TennesseePaul

December 22nd, 2010
11:18 am

I’m glad the Mclouth issue hasn’t been around a decade.

No, it hasn’t. But it seems the lack of a solid LF has been. Besides, prior to McLouth there was AJ and people ragged on him his entire tenure in ATL…. I would love to have that level of production back in CF. I would love to have the production of Kelsko back in LF. The OF just fell apart over the last decade.

Arkansas Transplant

December 22nd, 2010
11:19 am

There’s still a lot of day left to trade Lowe to the Yanks on the Anniversary we trade Vasquez to them. I’m sure they are probably wishing they had taken Lowe last year. Talk about 20/20 hindsight.

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