5:06 pm December 13, 2010, by Carroll Rogers
December 14th, 20102:35 pm
Lpad/richbrave – You two go to seperate parts of the house, and calm down. We can debate Minor vs. Beachy all day, but both have a lot of potential, and neither has proven it yet. I do think Minor is vendicating the decision to make him our first round draft choice.
T for Texas
..if not a different league.
December 14th, 20102:37 pm
Chris this is the family I was thinking of = John Middleton
“John S. Middleton is in his mid-fifties and splits his time between Bryn Mawr and Stone Harbor. He is a 1977 graduate of Amherst College, and according to them, “Middleton heads his family’s business, which includes McIntosh Inns, Bradford Holdings, and Double Play, Inc.” He inherited his portion of the ownership from his father, Herbert H. Middleton. He is also on the Board of Trustees of Penn Medicine.
John was the closest thing to passionate out of the group. Rumor has it, Middleton was a big reason why the Phillies signed Jim Thome in 2002. He has been attributed as declaring, “I’ll pay for him myself!”
It was announced in November of 2007 that Middleton had sold his family cigar company to the Altria Group, owners of Phillip Morris, for $2.9 billion.
NL East Champs, or wild card winner, it doesnt matter. Just get into the playoffs. The braves have a talented enough team to make it into the playoffs. The Phillies do have a deep starting rotation but the Giants were able to beat both the Phillies and Lee in the WS. Also, I do feel that the braves will have a deeper pen than the Phils which should help in a playoff series.
December 14th, 20102:39 pm
On the other hand, take away all of Henry Aaron’s 755 home runs, and he’s just a 3000+ hit Hall of Fame outfielder.
(Just had to sneak in one of my favorite all-time stats.) _ Hillbilly
I thought about throwing that out there too. Amazing, isn’t it!
December 14th, 20102:40 pm
Not according to the D’Backs…
December 14th, 20102:42 pm
lots of gloom and doom on this board today, almost like the Braves didn’t do anything to improve THEIR lineup recently (which is simply not true).
the 18 games against Philly in 2011 actually have to be PLAYED; the Phillies don’t win them by default just b/c they acquired Lee.
like another post stated, i’m ready for next season and some good competition. and i believe we should be more worried about how we do against the REST of the division, not just Philly. but i’m sure someone already mentioned that so i’ll give it a rest.
December 14th, 20102:43 pm
I’ve not gotten much of a response to feelers I put out this morning with Braves players re: Phillies signing of Lee. I guess I should know why when I remember what it felt like to walk in the visiting clubhouse in Washington, I believe, the day the Phillies had acquired Oswalt. Players didn’t want to talk about what “great things” the Phillies were doing that day, a problem compounded by a Braves loss that day to boot. And now they would rather work out or Christmas shop or spend time with their families than talk to me about Lee, apparently. Understandable.
Did see two Philly writers suggest that maybe the Phillies would eventually trade a starter, like Hamels, to add a right-handed bat, but neither wrote it very strongly, so looks like the Phillies are going old school with this: and really, use a formula that worked for the Giants, try to beat you with pitching, pitching, pitching.
December 14th, 20102:46 pm
cabravesfan, they’re asking for a lot. For the right price anybody is available.
Delgado, Beachy is a good way to start the conversation.
December 14th, 20102:47 pm
try to beat you with pitching, pitching, pitching.
December 14th, 20102:50 pm
Last week DOB mentioned that the Braves were working on signing a signing a backup outfielder and I believed it would be finalized this week. I believe he said the player was more organizational depth type guy. Any idea who that player is? Have you heard of any other minor league signings? Any word on wether the Braves will re-sign Clint Sammons to a minor league deal? Thanks
P-Town Brave ©
After everything I have read today and last night, I just gotta say…
Its amazing to me how these teams are just finding stacks of cash…Washington, Philly….
Yet the Braves keep hitting the decline button…
Obviously the Liberty pockets are either dry or sewn shut.
December 14th, 20102:55 pm
We don’t need to trade away the farm for a win this year scenario. We have some holes coming up in the next year or two. This team is built to make a strong push in the next few years when Philly is sitting on absurd contracts with older players. I would like to add another player as much as anyone else but trading the farm away isn’t the right play right now. Rasmus is having his swing changed, Kemp is coming off a terrible year, J. Upton will cost a ton and we still need to see more of him. There will be some good players on the market next year or this summer.
December 14th, 20102:57 pm
Enough of the Phillie crap talk! It’s time we start looking at what were going do to them, not what there going to do to us…..
December 14th, 20102:58 pm
Joe are you sure he was talking about a specific player? ….haven’t seen any minor league signings.
December 14th, 20102:59 pm
hey richbrave here’s the DOB post:
“Talking to other teams’ scouts, I hear that teams asking Braves for pitching have been told Hanson especially, but also Jurrjens and Minor, are pretty much off-limits. They’d trade Beachy in the right deal.”
December 7th, 2010 1:32 pm
Who has there foot in their mouth now richbrave?
Go on, explain why Hanson is untouchable, JJ and Minor are almost untouchable, but Beachy is gone in the right deal. Take the foot out of your mouth and apologize before I post the quote you made on Dec 7 saying that the Cain rumors are probably true.
December 14th, 20103:00 pm
Our team has chemistry, and the Phillies have names….
raleighbravefan – It’s over now. I think I proved my point to that smack talking fool.
December 14th, 20103:01 pm
Im done thinking about the Phillies Bull$&#! I hate them and Im over it and there is nothing I can do to change it!
It sounded though it was a specific player. Maybe I read it wrong
December 14th, 20103:02 pm
Beachy will do just fine! We don’t need to panic….We’re cool……
December 14th, 20103:03 pm
Dear Arthur Blank,
Please consider purchasing the Atlanta Braves. You have done great things for the city through your ownership of the Falcons, but bringing the Braves back to national relevancy would further help the city.
Dear Liberty Media,
Dear Liberty Media’s CEO,
Not worth your paycheck.
December 14th, 20103:04 pm
We need to think about the Braves , and what we are going to do them!
DPelfrey-”Just means they can’t go 8-10 against the Nats again”.
Didn’t the Nats improve?
Phillies finished the year 41-17 from August on, regular season. Braves finished 14-16 last 30 games, regular season. Injuries kept us from having a better record for sure, but definitely 2 teams headed in different directions. No reason not to believe a healthy Philly team won’t be at or above 100 wins. A healthy Braves team should push 92-93 wins provided we aren’t embarrassed by Philly. Go 6-12 against them and we probably stay in the 80’s.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
Dear Ted Truner, please save the braves!!!
From the mouths of babes…
ward is right, LOL. The best way to keep the other guy from hitting you is to make him worry about what’s gonna happen when YOU hit HIM.
Strap on the leotard and get some ownage on this Philly foursome.
December 14th, 20103:05 pm
Braves fans relax…… Braves arejust fine……….Relax…….
December 14th, 20103:06 pm
The Phillies still have an above average offense as well as the best starting rotation in the sport. Their offense isn’t what it used to be, but they can still crush right handed pitching. I wouldn’t trade Hamels if I were them. Instead, I’d look to extend him after this year and cut Oswalt loose.
December 14th, 20103:08 pm
I’m satisfied with our team , and looking forward to the battle….
December 14th, 20103:10 pm
Everybody is still wowed by the numbers Lee put up a few years ago. The guy is hittable. Hes no Halladay. He did have an ERA at 4 for Texas last year. Hes a streaky pitcher. Hes hot and cold. IMO hes not worth the 24 mil but apparently he is to the Phils. Even when he pitched for them he wasn’t Mr. Shutdown. He threw well and reaped the benefits of a devastating offense. Werth is now out of that offense and personally I think it will have some effect on them. Now Werth and Utley have no protection behind them.
Our offense is better w/ Uggla and don’t forget we tote a pretty good rotation ourselves.
Well I have to go to work! Braves fans take no prisoners, and no mercy…..”Go!!! Braves!!!.”
December 14th, 20103:11 pm
Maybe I read to much into this. Here is the post by DOB:
“LH George Sherrill is expected to have his physical today.
Braves have something else that could be finalized in next week, but I get the impression that it’s a depth-type move for the outfield, not a front-line guy.”
December 14th, 20103:12 pm
As anybody else starting to read ward’s posts while imagining Jules Winnfield’s voice?
“We’re all gonna be like three little Fonzies here…We’re gonna be cool.”
December 14th, 20103:16 pm
Yolanda, I thought you said you were gonna be cool. Now when you yell at me, it makes me nervous. And when I get nervous, I get scared. And when Braves Fans get scared, that’s when Braves Fans accidentally get eliminated from the playoffs.
December 14th, 20103:17 pm
Isn’t that what Utley’s wife said….Hi-yo!
December 14th, 20103:20 pm
Hillbilly, ward actually is starting to get some of that Attila-The-Hun ‘tude in his posts, isn’t he, LOL?
gd from nz
December 14th, 20103:24 pm
Yes I’m in the camp that says the 2011 NL East is over, we are already playing for the wildcard.
Aren’t they talking about adding another wild card in each division? Gotta hope so.
The NL East is going to get very interesting in the next few years with the Mets adding some serious baseball management and the Nats looking to spend and draft to get into contention in a hurry.
4th in the NL East may not be anything to be embarrassed about in 3-4 years time!!!
December 14th, 20103:26 pm
Why not trade KK straight up for Doumit. Salaries are almost the same, plus that gives us the versatile outfielder/infielder off the bench that can switch hit
December 14th, 20103:27 pm
Lets take a look of how the Braves stack up vs philly
Depth in pitching……..A
Overall grade: B
Depth in pitching……..B-
They’re still even but Atlanta flunks in base running and lacks defense. Phillies lack bullpen, but with that rotation it’s not a critical problem, and since there plan is to insert Gload/Brown and Francisco in some sort of platoon in RF, there bench is weakened.
If Chipper isnt ready to go, you put Martin at 3rd and Doumit in LF. If Chipper is ready, Doumit could be your 3rd emergency catcher and backup outfielder and first baseman.
McFann O O
December 14th, 20103:30 pm
Ms. Rogers try to beat you with pitching, pitching, pitching.
December 14th, 20103:31 pm
But, Tomas, what about grit? I see no grades for grittiness and scrappiness.
December 14th, 20103:37 pm
Scoots, there is no grade higher than A+ so they had to remove grit from the report card.
I have no idea what your criteria is but I don’t see how the Braves get an F for base-running.
December 14th, 20103:39 pm
One Heap triple every couple of years is worth an A in my book.
December 14th, 20103:40 pm
I guess most bloggerites fear that the sky is falling today.
Might wanna go ahead and play 162 games before giving the NL East crown to the Phils. Their rotation is good (no doubt), but I like the Braves roster (and their chances of winning a playoff berth) as well. Gotta play a whole lot of baseball first.
December 14th, 20103:42 pm
The rich get richer…what else is new?? The Braves will have a very hard time competing with the Phillies until Liberty Media sells the team. They obviously don’t have any interest in baseball, and it shows on the field.
Bat Masterson, they don’t have a single player with 10 or more stolen bases, and grounded into a lot of DP’s. They don’t hit and run, not aggresive in the bases. F.
Phillies have Rollins, Victorino who steal 30 bases a year. Those 2 combined steal more than ATL. And their success percentage is much better.
December 14th, 20103:44 pm
Bat M. One Heap triple every couple of years is worth an A in my book.
Oh, mine, too, definitely! I think he’s due for one this year.
I don’t care if they steal a single base next year. With all those doubles and homers who needs ‘em.
December 14th, 20103:45 pm
Bleh…stolen bases are overrated. How many times did the Fillies Suicide-Squeeze last year??
December 14th, 20103:46 pm
Bat M. With all those doubles and homers who needs ‘em.
I agree. Doubles are more exciting than SB’s in every way—especially if they’re RBI Doubles!
December 14th, 20103:47 pm
Bat Masterson, they need to manufacturer runs specially vs philadelphia, the way to manufacture run is using speed advancing base runners, its gonna be tough. raves don’t have a true lead-off hitter.
December 14th, 20103:48 pm
If the Braves decide to make a move (which wont happen) it would be for a proven outfielder that is under team control still getting paid cheap. A Rasmus or McCutchen type. We would have to trade valuable prospects. The Braves wont be able to add anyone making alot of money. We have roughly around 1 mil left. I think we should stand pat and go with what we got. Would yall trade a package like Delgado,Beachy,Hoover,Merek for one of those Ofers? I dont think I could. If money wanst a issue I’d do it for Justin Upton in a heart beat but were dreaming. What you see is what we’ll have.
December 14th, 20103:49 pm
Not to continue to talk about the Phils Four Horsemen, but are they really going to need as deep of a pen with the amount of innings they will eat all year long? Halladay and Lee are good for 460-500 innings, right?
December 14th, 20103:51 pm
Steals haven’t mattered since Ruth took his bat to Cobb’s cleats.
Stolen Bases are nice but they dont effect a team as much as you’d think. I think its better to have good and smart baserunners. A few guys that will steal around 15 bags is fine. Be smart and dont run ourself outta a inning or rally.
December 14th, 20103:53 pm
McFann is a wise woman.
December 14th, 20103:54 pm
VABravesFan- as you said braves wont make a move, so everything else is mute….
December 14th, 20103:58 pm
are they really going to need as deep of a pen with the amount of innings they will eat all year long?
Starters threw about 1000 innings for them last year, anyhow. Hard for me to believe they can significantly increase that number, so it’s not as if the new rotation is going to lower the impact of the bullpen much more, if any.
BP is still going to throw nearly a third of the innings, even with deep starts.
December 14th, 20103:59 pm
Steals are important. The more stolen bases players get the more they get in scoring position and score more runs.
And teams value that, or Carl Crawford wouldn’t have gotten 142 million.
December 14th, 20104:01 pm
If you simply go by the projected innings they’ll receive from their 1-4 starters, they should expect right around 900 innings from those 4 starters. Assuming their 5th starters are only good for 150 innings (very low estimate), that’s 1,050 innings from starting pitchers. Most teams average about 1,450 innings a season, meaning they would require the bullpen to pitch about 400 innings. Assuming a 7 man bullpen with even splits, that’s just under 60 innings per pitcher in the pen. But since no team has an even split in the pen, expect their better pitchers to cover somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 innings a piece, while the lessor pitchers will pick up around 40 or so.
Basically, the bullpen is very unlikely to hold Philly back next year.
Crawford brings much more than speed and SB. Thats not the reason he got 142. Its a bonus but his hitting, increased power, defense and raw ability is what mainly landed that contract.
December 14th, 20104:02 pm
Anyone know Uggla’s lifetime splits against Halladay, Oswalt, Lee, and Hamels?
December 14th, 20104:04 pm
Hard for me to believe they can significantly increase that number
I suppose, although part of the greatness of Lee is his ability to work deep into games and save the pen, so do you not think this will have a positive impact?
December 14th, 20104:05 pm
But unlike most fans, I’m happy with our team. Wren’s done great. He does what he can with what resources he’s given budget wise. We were able to fill our huge RH power bat need without dealing a prospect. We improved a already good bullpen. We still have all the young talent in place and I think we will fight for 1st place til the end with Philly.
December 14th, 20104:06 pm
Must be nice to have ownership that cares. The Phillies payroll ($170M) is now twice the Braves payroll ($85M). It’s just ridiculous. Get new ownership already.
December 14th, 20104:07 pm
P’cola Brave, yes he does obviously, but compare Jayson Werth and Crawford.
Werth hits more homers, has a higher ops, good fielder, and steals 20 bases too.
Crawford got 20 million more, because of his blazing speed.
December 14th, 20104:09 pm
I don’t know but in my experience I have rarely seen a team with a huge payroll and a whole roster of stars win that much. I know it happens from time to time but something has to be said for team chemistry and having too many egos and big heads in the clubhouse. That is what I see when I look at the Spankees and Phillthies now. I like this Braves roster and if I were a betting man I would put my money on the Braves this year more than the Phillthies. The Braves have a good mix of young players and veteran leadership and they all seem to like each other and play for each other…that says a lot for winning baseball and the talent is there. I feel really good about the Braves this year, especially with a healthy Chipper. Now go sign Uggla to an extension Wren and show some commitment to a bat finally.
Uggla Stats vs Big 4
.162/ .256/ .270/ .526 – Hamels
.150/ .292/ .200/ .492 – Oswalt
.368/ .368/ .789/ 1.158 – Halladay
0-2 vs Lee with a walk
December 14th, 20104:10 pm
Plus Crawford is a few years younger.
December 14th, 20104:11 pm
i would say our hitting is a C….not enough power even with Ugs
Only 4 of the 8 playoff teams last year stole more bases than the league average. The lowest of those playoff team totals? Giants.
Stolen bases aren’t that big a deal. Good baserunning and stolen bases are two different things, though the Braves do need to improve their baserunning, but it certainly isn’t an F. Maybe Heyward, who is an EXCELLENT baserunner and stole only 11 bases, can give some of the lesser baserunners some tips.
December 14th, 20104:13 pm
Efrim, I guess my thought is that circumstances conspire to waylay the best-laid plans, LOL. Since the era of increased BP usage has grown to maturity, that ratio of starters to relievers has been relatively static. Lee might indeed grab an inning or two from the pen, but he probably won’t do that every start, and unless his IP jumps up to 280 or 290, it probably won’t measurably change the ratio.
Now, you could argue that even 10 innings of differential for the BP is significant, and I probably would not argue otherwise (at least, not too hard). So, in one sense, I think you could argue that anything over, oh, 210 from Lee would make a difference.
Higher payroll does not equal more wins
New ownership does not equal higher payroll
San Francisco was 10th in payroll
Atlanta was 15th
Tampa was 21st
Texas was 27th
December 14th, 20104:14 pm
Ha…well, thanks, Bat! Though “stubborn” might be slightly more apropos…
But not “prejudice”—I’ve had plenty of experience to give me reason to believe Doubles are more exciting than SB’s.
December 14th, 20104:17 pm
Forgot the Twins (11th) and the Reds (19th)
December 14th, 20104:18 pm
cabravesfan Forgot the Twins
Yeah, that’s really not such a bad thing…
December 14th, 20104:19 pm
The Braves are a joke.
Sadly, I couldn’t remember all the teams that made the post season this past year…I did find it interesting that only 2 of them had payrolls of over $100 million and neither played in the World Series…
December 14th, 20104:21 pm
The Braves are a joke. Nick
Pot meet kettle……
December 14th, 20104:22 pm
Let’s cut the bullcrap, Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Hamels are ALL aces and with the way they eat up innings, Lidge and Madson are probably all they’re going to need in the bullpen. And even without Werth, their offense is still better than the Braves. Howard, Utley, and Rollins all had off years and yet, they still won 97 games last season.
Things that have to happen for the Braves to seriously compete with the Phillies:
- Jurrjens has to return to his 08-09 form or better
- Hanson needs to become to ace he was projected to be
- Lowe needs to pitch like he did in September and the playoffs
- Hudson – status quo
- Minor/Beachy just need to not get lit up
- Kimbrel = Neftali Feliz type rookie season
- Venters to not have any regression/his arm to not fall off
-The McCann of 2006-08 needs to come out of hiding
- Freeman to not be Scott Thorman pt. 2
- MONSTER years from Uggla and Heyward
- Chipper to stay relatively healthy and productive
- Prado to continue to excel
- McLouth to revert back to his ‘09 form at least or Schafer to not be completely useless
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that at least 9 of those 13 things should happen, but it’s still going to be tough. Stop pretending that the Phillies aren’t that good.
December 14th, 20104:24 pm
Roy Oswalt vs ATL………34 hits 113 At bats 4 homers 9 walks a 836 OPS vs current Braves
Cole Hamels vs ATL……….45 hits 173 at bats 7 homers 22 walks a 817 OPS vs current Braves
Roy Halladay vs ATL………33 hits 128 at bats 6 homers 7 walks a 753 OPS vs current Braves
Cliff Lee vs ATL…………….10 hits 47 at bats 1 homer 3 walks a 600 OPS vs current Braves
Statistically speaking Braves fare real well against all of them except Lee. They fare ok vs halladay, Uggla is a huge reason with his great career numbers vs Halladay.
December 14th, 20104:26 pm
When I read ward’s post I picture him looking and sounding like Sloth from Goonies. Makes him much more tolerable… almost enjoyable.
December 14th, 20104:27 pm
HomeofdaBrave, I agree completely.
Enter your comments here
December 14th, 20104:28 pm
No, a joke would be “What do you do with an elephant with 3 balls? Walk him and pitch to the rhino.”
I hate reading all this crap of what needs to go right for the braves. Theres questions for every team, including the Phillies.
-Can Hamels be consistent all year
-Will Rollins manage to stay healthy? Utley?
-How will the replace the lost offense in Werth?
-Ibanez is another year older.
-Who will step up in bullpen?
-Which Lidge will show up this year?
-When will Lee and Halladay’s arm fall off?
December 14th, 20104:29 pm
Braves suck. SS, CF, 1B, 3B all suck. I have them at 80-82.
cabravesfan Sadly, I couldn’t remember all the teams that made the post season this past year…
Hey, no biggie—I keep forgetting the Reds went, too…but it’s not like I spend every waking hour thinking about it now.
I did find it interesting that only 2 of them had payrolls of over $100 million and neither played in the World Series…
Yeah, that is very int’resting. Who would that be—Yankees aaaaand…………Fillies…?
HomeofdaBrave -The McCann of 2006-08 needs to come out of hiding
SOUNDS GOOD. No more 2010/2007 (though I’d take ‘07 over ‘10 in many different categories…)
“McFann is a wise woman.”
Girl’s barely out of diapers already.
December 14th, 20104:30 pm
Nick go jump off a bridge and do us all a favor.
Nick, isn’t that a game above what you had them last year?
See, folks? Even Nick is optimistic about improvement!
December 14th, 20104:31 pm
We’ll be aight…..75-87.
Take it to the bank.
December 14th, 20104:32 pm
December 14th, 20104:33 pm
Of the 8 positions the braves have 6 allstars or former allstars filling those positions. The only other two are SS and 1B (which will be manned by the IL MVP last year). Get a grip. I’ve never been around so many whiners in my life. The sky is falling because the Phils just paid 24 mil a year to a pitcher w/ a career ERA near 4. He hasn’t bee as dominant as people think. He can go a ton of innings, which is his biggest asset. He had under a .500 record for the Rangers and ERA just south of 4.
December 14th, 20104:35 pm
P’cola – AGon was an all-star in 99′ I thought.
You gotta think guys. We will most likely go 0-18 against the Phils. That’s 18 losses right there. 80-82 sounds about right.
beekay, the lineup is pretty solid. There are 2 guys in the lineup that are considered holes. Alex Gonzalez, and Nate Mclouth. Freeman I expect to have Heyward type year with a lower OBP.
I like what Bowman said, this is as solid as the lineup has been since 2003 when the Braves had Sheffield, Javy Lopez(40 homer season), Vinny Castilla, healthy Chipper, Furcal, awesome Andruw, and allstar Marcus Giles.
December 14th, 20104:37 pm
Braves have an advantage on the Phillies at RF, LF, 3b, and catcher. Due to the injuries Utley sustained last year, I’m going to call 2b a wash, with a slight edge to Philly. Phillies have an advantage on the Braves at CF, SS, and 1b. Oh, and at SP 1, SP 2, SP 3, and SP 4.
December 14th, 20104:38 pm
first phillies fan sighting in a while think giants phillie and shudder at your overweight over paid over hyped bunch of crap from a crap city lol
We talk baseball, other sports, music, movies, BBQ and whatever (except politics or religion)
Atlanta Braves RSS feed
Previous entries »
Send a feedback technical issue
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution