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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,221 comments Add your comment
Lew
December 14th, 2010
12:31 pm
I’d like to point something out here – especially to those about to find ledges to jump off.
Halladay and Hamels last season had 6 No Decisions and 7 losses in games in which they gave up two Earned Runs or less. They had another 3 ND and 5 losses in games in which they gave up three runs or less.
What this shows to me is that even with great pitching, there were (just for 2/5 of their rotation) 21 games in which despite this pitching, the Phillies offense didn’t help.
The Phillies were (and have been for several years) quite capable of going stone cold offensively – they even did it in the NLCS – and they just lost Werth and replaced him with a rookie, they still have a much injured Rollins, an older and less effective Ibanez and basically, a weaker offense.
The Braves lost in September last year because they had major injuries and couldn’t hit in bases loaded or early innings with runners on situations. They added Uggla and a hopefully more consistent 1B, which should help our issues considerably, And let’s not forget that wih a touch more offense, the Braves would have had two twenty game winners in Lowe and Hudson and could have added a third in Hanson. Our bullpen is so much better than the Phillies as to be no comparison at all.
Let’s play ball.
ward
December 14th, 2010
12:32 pm
Lee will be another K.K. in two years. How old is he?See you guy’s later….
DS1
December 14th, 2010
12:34 pm
Cliff Lee is 32 years old. And he is a pitcher. Don’t know about his injury history. I’d bet $20 he wouldn’t be dealing in 5 years.
These pitchers are just so darned fragile. As much as we needed Lowe a couple of years back, if we’d had other options, that signing never happens.
I like the Braves approach to building a staff from within (Hanson, Medlen, Teheran, Minor, Beachy, Delgado) or getting young guys in their formative years (Jurrjens) and supplementing them with some seasoned vets when necessary.
To go out and get big arms on the free agent market can have a huge up AND down side.
Thundersticks
December 14th, 2010
12:35 pm
I bet Cashman and Ryan both called Wren first thing this morning.
BravePack
December 14th, 2010
12:36 pm
The Lee signing doesn’t really mean anything. How many big names have the Spankees signed and it meant nothing as far as bringing a title. The Phillthies are better yes but also getting older each year and believe me they will get hurt whether it’s a pitcher or hitter or both. Their line-up is a little weak while ours is better with a second year Heyward, Uggla, and I KNOW Freeman will do better than we had at first base last year even though he is a rookie. Lee is good but he’s not unhittable. Another year of Roy may also make us better against him as the Braves hitters become more comfortable against him. You never know what you’ll get with Hamels. I actually think our defense will be alright as Freeman is a great 1st baseman and I’m sure Uggla will be working on his defense in the spring. I just think we really need to sign Uggla to have a good L-R split to our line-up especially know that the Phillthies have 2 lefties in their rotation. We need his power for more than one year.
Efrim
December 14th, 2010
12:37 pm
The Phillies were (and have been for several years) quite capable of going stone cold offensively – they even did it in the NLCS – and they just lost Werth and replaced him with a rookie, they still have a much injured Rollins, an older and less effective Ibanez and basically, a weaker offense.
It’s a fair point that their offense is aging and injury prone. They are also very left handed and I don’t expect Carlos Ruiz to be a great RH bat that many think he could be. But that starting pitching is something else, Lew. If you’re going to say that our pen is so much better than the Phils, you’d have to say the same for the starting staffs, no?
Bat Masterson
December 14th, 2010
12:38 pm
For those of you who think Beachy is a future star, consider the fact that Beachy couldn’t even pry Lorenzo Cain away from a team looking for pitching. _ LPad
Are you sure that was not merely a rumor? I’m not.
DS1
December 14th, 2010
12:40 pm
Thundersticks
Possible. I think Frank plays with the hand he has. BUT, if he decided to deal Lowe, it would be because he thought we still have too many question marks. He ask for some decent young players or prospects.
And if (HUGE IF) Lowe were dealt, that doesn’t mean that salary gets replaced. I’d be shocked if it was.
DS1
December 14th, 2010
12:41 pm
Best rumors I have ever heard were from Fleetwood Mac!
N8
December 14th, 2010
12:43 pm
“Blanton is over rated, and sucked in the Play Offs…..”
yet the Phils managed to go 17-12 in his starts. Again. If the Braves go 17-12 in Beachy or Minor’s 25 starts (assuming one of them is the 5th starter and gets skipped on occasion), the locals will be saying what a weapon they are out of the 5th spot of the rotation.
sccoots & Bat funny stuff guys.
Efrim
December 14th, 2010
12:44 pm
If you’re going to say that our pen is so much better than the Phils, you’d have to say the same for the starting staffs, no?
And by that, I mean the Phils are far better.
richbrave
December 14th, 2010
12:44 pm
Bat Masterson
December 14th, 2010
12:38 pm
For those of you who think Beachy is a future star, consider the fact that Beachy couldn’t even pry Lorenzo Cain away from a team looking for pitching. _ LPad
Are you sure that was not merely a rumor? I’m not.
Yeah, BAT, I was thinking, “how the he** does he know?” It was just a rumor as far as I know. Hey foot-pad, your saying it doesn’t make it so. That said I do think BEACH was offered around, and still might be for the right price. I’m thinking CAIN wasn’t good enough to land BEACHY without a sweetner.
How’s that foot-pad? That’s what I know. Prove me wrong. Bring it!
Lew
December 14th, 2010
12:46 pm
Efrim – NO. They have an edge in starting pitching, but there is no comparison in the pens.
DAP
December 14th, 2010
12:47 pm
abwright With the addition of Lee, the Phils are clearly the better team. They probably got 10-12 wins better than in 2010, even after Werth is subtracted from the team.
what!?! you really think 97 wins minus werth plus lee equals 107 wins? i mean, really think about it… you sure?
i appreciate scoots for being level headed here. at the end of the day, when you win 97 games, its very difficult to top that, no matter what you do.
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
12:48 pm
Phillies getting Lee really I can’t but unfortunately I can believe it. If I’m Frank Wren I would definitley try to pick up someone. We have all seen Wren come up with deals that we had no idea about but who knows. I’am not looking forward to playing the Phillies 18 times this season thats for sure.
A look at next years schedule we open the season with a six game road trip. It begins Saturday April 2nd in the Nations Capitol where they will play Sunday as well. Then it’s 4 v.s. the Brew crew before our Braves come back to the TED on April 8th against guess who you got it the Phillies!
Some interesting interleague action Friday June 17 through the 22nd the Texas Rangers and Toronto Blue Jays will be in town. Braves go to Seattle the following week for a 3 game set and then the Orioles come to town.
The Chicago Cubs come to town August 12th-14th should be a big series.
We end the season with a three game set against the Phills within the friendly confines of the TED!!! Exciting finish?????
Thoughts??
Mixxo
December 14th, 2010
12:48 pm
DS1 -
Peter Green era Mac > Stevie/Lindsay Mac
Also, I hope Victorino cleans Mac’s clock again this year. ♥
Bat Masterson
December 14th, 2010
12:49 pm
Many things factor in. I know the NFL is not MLB, but my Chiefs are probably going to end up around 10-6 this year. There is a very real chance that they finish much worst than that next year (didn’t Falcons have the same fate with one year of an easy schedule and then struggled the next year?), even though I expect the team to improve. _ N8
Yeah the Falcons went 11 and 5 outa the blue. Then a little tougher schedule, continuing to rebuild the roster and a few key injuries, uh oh, 9 and 7. This year, key guys back from injuries, younger, faster defense, 11 and 2 so far, we’ll see………..
The Braves division has not been static, play the games.
richbrave
December 14th, 2010
12:50 pm
Lew
I’ve been looking and looking for individual stats on LEE, HAMELS et al against the BRAVES last year. Have you got a site which shows how our pitching and theirs fared against the other team in 2010?
DS1
December 14th, 2010
12:54 pm
Mixxo
Victorino is a has been……..sorry.
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
12:55 pm
rich, you could look up the splits for each pitcher at baseball-reference.com; there’s a split with the pitcher’s stats against each opponent. Don’t know if that is exactly what you are seeking, though.
richbrave
December 14th, 2010
12:56 pm
bravofan:
“I’am not looking forward to playing the Phillies 18 times this season thats for sure.”
Come on man, where’s your cojones? I’m going to enjoy this series in 2011, and I say now that we do no worse than a split, a one game improvement over last year. It’s the rest of the division we need to clean up on, just like the PHILLIES did last season.
richbrave
December 14th, 2010
12:57 pm
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
12:55 pm
rich, you could look up the splits for each pitcher at baseball-reference.com; there’s a split with the pitcher’s stats against each opponent. Don’t know if that is exactly what you are seeking, though.
Thanx scoots. I’ll give it a go.
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
12:57 pm
richbrave: I was thinking we can split at least
civilied white trash
December 14th, 2010
12:58 pm
it does nothing for the braves to get rid of lowe and add greinke they need to keep em both if they wana go toe to toe with the phils…. I DO MISS TED TURNER!!!!!….
C McCann vs Ruiz Atlanta
1B Freeman vs Howard Philly
2B Uggla vs Utley Philly (utley has better d)
3B Chipper vs Polanco Philly (healthy chip no question bout it dont know how he is going torespond)
SS Gonzo vs Rollins Philly
LF Ibanez vs Prado Atlanta
CF Braves? vs Victorino Philly
RF Heyward vs Brown Atlanta
Braves are deeper even not know who the last to bench players are and bullpens is way deeeeep and good for the braves
but with being said phils will go 162-0 braves are battling for the wild card right now
Lew
December 14th, 2010
12:59 pm
For all of those having problems with Mozilla or Internet Explorer – I had horrendous problems – Mozilla disappeared and IE sucked – couldn’t even log on to the blog this morning.
I got ticked off and installed Google Chrome and the tortoise now has freaking jet packs on.
Bat Masterson
December 14th, 2010
12:59 pm
I’m thinking CAIN wasn’t good enough to land BEACHY without a sweetner. _ richbrave
Yep, it would not have been good enough for me.
TennesseePaul
December 14th, 2010
1:00 pm
richbrave: I’ve been looking and looking for individual stats on LEE, HAMELS et al against the BRAVES last year. Have you got a site which shows how our pitching and theirs fared against the other team in 2010?
Hard to do with just last year. Lee hasn’t really faced the Braves but 3 times. His impact comes in being a lefty going against the Braves lefties. I don’t see Heyward, Freeman, or McLouth excelling in those opportunities too often.
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
1:00 pm
civilied white trash: thanks for your Trashy opinion
DAP
December 14th, 2010
1:00 pm
wayne Lots of fine young men playing the game I FLAT OUT LOVE!
wayne….? leave your alternate lifestyle out of this, k?
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
1:01 pm
Beachy will not be as good as everyone thinks he will be
Edict
December 14th, 2010
1:01 pm
The time for fun and games are over. Time to go to the mattresses. The roster is no longer set the way it seemed a week ago. We are not ready to go for Opening Day. Time to hit the road. Time for a trip to Denver to find whomever it is that owns this team, and to find out where they keep their purse. Then it’s time for a trip to the Virginian’s farm. Wagner has to come back now. NO excuses. Schuerholz needs to take a trip to Kansas City and remind him of everything daddy did for him, and demand Greinke. Wren needs to travel to Boston and get Theo to give him Cameron or Ellsbury. Schuerholz needs to travel to Montana and ask Ted if he’s got another $10 or $15 million he’d like to give away.
Lew
December 14th, 2010
1:01 pm
mixxo – Well, at least you finally got something right – Peter Green is infinitely better musically than Buckingham /Nicks, but their version of Fleetwood Mac could sure crank out those hits like a machine..
eskippy
December 14th, 2010
1:02 pm
That would be Rumours.
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
1:02 pm
Edict: right there with ya!
TennesseePaul
December 14th, 2010
1:03 pm
And by that, I mean the Phils are far better
Agreed.
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
1:04 pm
The time for fun and games are over. Time to go to the mattresses.
Yeah, well, Barzini and Tattaglia thought they had the Corleones dominated, too, and look how that turned out.
Lew
December 14th, 2010
1:04 pm
richbrave – BaseballReference.com in the splits section?
BravePack
December 14th, 2010
1:05 pm
C McCann vs Ruiz Atlanta
1B Freeman vs Howard Philly
2B Uggla vs Utley Atlanta Uggla has more power and will not get injured
plus he isn’t a greaseball.
3B Chipper vs Polanco Atlanta Chipper big rebound year or even Prado is better
SS Gonzo vs Rollins Philly
LF Ibanez vs Prado Atlanta
CF Braves? vs Victorino Philly
RF Heyward vs Brown Atlanta
Phillies rotation may be a little better but I truely believe this move was done because they know the Braves got better with all their moves and they have done nothing besides lose Werth and get another year older. This move was done out of desperation on their part.
Tommy T
December 14th, 2010
1:05 pm
Remember last winter’s dream rotation: Beckett, Lackey, Lester, Daisuke???? How’d that turn out?
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
1:06 pm
An excerpt from USA Today article how cliff lee and the Phillies altered the MLB landscape
The Rest Of the NL East: Oh, the Mets, Marlins, Braves and Nationals will show up, all right — presumably for a shot at the wild card.
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
1:07 pm
Tommy T: that does not even compare to the Phills sorry
Travis
December 14th, 2010
1:08 pm
I would expect that Hamels and Holliday would be on par to repeat their wins for last year at 66 starts and 33 wins betwenn them. Oswalt probably will see an improvement over his 33 games started 13/13 to maybe 16/12. Lee replaces Kendrick but his numbers were about the same so the only real improvement is in the #5 spot and that is about 4-5 games improvement. That leaves the innings eating scenario that keeps them out of the bullpen. If the Braves bullpen has an era as good or better than the starters for Philly then here is the edge. Braves starters Hudson/Lowe 67 starts 33 wins. A wash if they can continue but they are older than Holliday/Hamels. Oswalt/Hamels are number 3and 4 and don’t really trump our 3/4 if Jurrgens comes back as before. Is Kendrick better than Minor or Beachy? Not at 10/10. Offense better at Philly? Hard to say beyond the first four. With Werth gone and a rookie in right and Ibaniz aging, I don’t see that much improvement over 2010.
rrosson3
December 14th, 2010
1:09 pm
Initially i was worried about the Cliff Lee signing but now I’m really not. He is a good pitcher but this puts huge pressure on the phils financially. They were complaining about not having money to go get Oswalt and they did. Now they add another 20 mil. They will need to shed some cash and will not have the means to add later in the season when Rollins goes down or when they realize Ibanez is a bust.
I think our rotation is just as good. We may not have the BIG names but our guys can go out and there compete with the best of them. The fact that we are a team with great chemistry will be beneficial to us in the long run. With Chipper returning, he adds so much to the lineup. Even if hes struggling, the guys around him get better pitches to hit. With Uggla in the lineup, McCann wont have the pressure of being THE power guy and can get back to hitting for a high average. This lineup is solid guys we can go out there and put up the runs. The phillies have holes. They will be counting on Placido Polanco, Jimmy Rollins, Raul Ibanez, and Dominic Brown. The first two are injury proned, the third is fading fast, and Brown is a unproven youngster. We may have a shoddy outfield but not many teams can say the have the power output that the Braves have from the catching and second base position.
abwright
December 14th, 2010
1:09 pm
DAP, December 14th, 2010, 12:47 pm … “what!?! you really think 97 wins minus werth plus lee equals 107 wins?”
Worst case scenario … yes.
It was a starting point, after which, as Blanton, Ibanez, whomever is subtracted, the Phils come back down to earth.
Right now, barring injuries, I think the Phils are a 100+ win team.
rrosson3
December 14th, 2010
1:10 pm
not mention the team as a whole is OLD!
Tommy T
December 14th, 2010
1:12 pm
bravofan:
I don’t think the difference is that great, but the greater point is: no matter what five guys the Phillies roll out there, someone is going to lose some games. These rotations are never as good as they look on paper.
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
1:12 pm
Tommy T: that does not even compare to the Phills sorry
Doesn’t matter, the point’s the same. The problem with a “dream” rotation or “dream” offense or “dream” anything is this: they make you wake up and actually play.
Getting through 162 takes more than a picture on the front of the program guide.
Murph
December 14th, 2010
1:12 pm
What do you mean they cut the power, man??? They’re animals!!!
You’d think the aliens were crawling through the false ceiling getting ready to drop down on us the way everyone is running for the hills around here.
The season is 162 games long, and they’ll play every single one of ‘em… don’t go writing your Braves off just yet because the Phillies signed Cliff Lee. Last time I looked the Bravos were in the playoffs and would have probably advanced further had it not been for some horrible defense.
A lot can happen over the course of a season, so let’s get there first before everyone starts jumping off the ship.
ramblingman
December 14th, 2010
1:13 pm
I am just skipping a lot of posts on here now, they are too full of gloom and doom. I like how the Braves are put together and although the Phils made themselves better in their rotation, they have suffered in their lineup. Regardless, the Braves can not affect what Philly does to their team and vice versa.
Thanks to ncscoots and the others who are keeping a clear head and an even keel. Keep up the good posts.
MaconBraves (RIP)
December 14th, 2010
1:15 pm
Here I was thinking that I wouldn’t be able to listen to ESPN Radio today because they would be beating the Brett Farve streak thing to death. Instead, I can’t listen to them because Cowherd and company can’t stop slobbering all over the Phillies.
McFann O O
December 14th, 2010
1:16 pm
DS1 McCann hitting again with confidence.
rrosson3
December 14th, 2010
1:18 pm
1, Martin Prado (R)
2. Nate McLouth (L) (expecting comeback)
3. Chipper Jones (S) (old injury prone)
4. Brian McCann (L)
5. Dan Uggla (R)
6. Jason Heyward (L)
7. Alex Gonzalez (R)
8. Freddie Freeman (L) (unproven but great talent)
vs.
1. Jimmy Rollins (S) (old injury prone)
2. Shane Victorino (S)
3. Chase Utley (L)
4. Ryan Howard (L)
5. Raul Ibanez (L) (old overrated)
6. Placido Polanco (R) (injury prone)
7. Dominic Brown (L) (unproven)
8. Carlos Ruiz (R)
I will take the braves lineup ANY day compared to the phils. There are too many spots that can be exploited there. The will have three lefties in a row. Too easy for the match up in late innings. The Braves lineup is perfect.
NoBreggie4Dogs
December 14th, 2010
1:18 pm
I for one, really LIKE Lindsey Buckingham
Bobby's chauffeur
December 14th, 2010
1:19 pm
The braves will be just fine the way we are today. Frank Wren knows what he is doing and will make whatever moves that have to be made during spring training. until then we all need to chill out (no pun intended)
richbrave
December 14th, 2010
1:20 pm
PHILLIES vs. BRAVES in 2010
GAME 1 – April 20
SP KENDRICK vs. HANSON. WP WAGNER
GAME 2 – April 21
SP HALLADAY vs. HUDSON. WP HALLADAY
GAME 3 – April 22
SP MOYER vs. LOWE. WP MOYER
GAME 4 – May 7
SP MOYER vs. LOWE. WP MOYER
GAME 5 – May 8
SP MEDLIN vs. BLANTON. WP O’FLAHERTY
GAME 6 – May 9
SP HAMELS vs. KAWAKAMI. WP HAMELS
GAME 7 – May 31
SP BLANTON vs. HANSON. WP HANSON
GAME 8 – June 1
SP HAMELS vs. HUDSON. WP HUDSON
GAME 9 – June 2
SP KENDRICK vs. LOWE. WP LOWE
Gotta’ stop. Hospital visit for a friend who’s ailing. I’ll get back to this later.
rrosson3
December 14th, 2010
1:20 pm
i guess they can throw in John Mayberry instead of Ibanez but that is yet another young guy
Efrim
December 14th, 2010
1:26 pm
Well, on the bright side of things: Baseball America is releasing the Braves Top Ten prospects tomorrow morning. To be honest, I never thought that they would be able to keep all of them and still improve their team for 2011 as much as they did. Like I have said many times, I just wish Delgado or Vizcaino was a hitter…..
bravofan
December 14th, 2010
1:28 pm
Its MEDLEN FOLKS COMEON YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BY NOW!!!!!!
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
1:29 pm
Like I have said many times, I just wish Delgado or Vizcaino was a hitter…..
They may yet be, LOL.
I’m with you, though, Wren deserves a tip o’ the hat for this offseason’s work. So far.
ramblingman
December 14th, 2010
1:29 pm
LOL@MaconBraves. I have never been able to listen to Cowherd because his ego will not fit in the radio
ChrisInPittsburgh
December 14th, 2010
1:30 pm
Said very simply…the Braves need to do something about manufacturing runs…and I am of the opinion that getting a legitmate leadoff hitter with speed would solve some of these issues.
It will be imperative that the Braves manufacture runs against the Phils…I see a lot of low scoring games in the future.
Mike S
December 14th, 2010
1:32 pm
Scoots, coming strong this morning. Love it. Suck it numbletards.
keylargo
December 14th, 2010
1:36 pm
I’ve said this before, but here is the worst contract in MLB for player a little older than Dan Uggla. The Phillies are in for turmoil with their payroll sooner than later.
Ryan Howard
# 12:$20M, 13:$20M, 14:$25M, 15:$25M, 16:$25M, 17:$23M club option ($10M buyout)
# limited no-trade clause
Steve from OH
December 14th, 2010
1:38 pm
Well, on the bright side of things: Baseball America is releasing the Braves Top Ten prospects tomorrow morning. To be honest, I never thought that they would be able to keep all of them and still improve their team for 2011 as much as they did. Like I have said many times, I just wish Delgado or Vizcaino was a hitter…..
I completely agree, Efrim. Wren has done one heck of a job this offseason, I think. But like you said earlier, he needs to invest some more in the Rule IV draft if we’re gonna keep pace with the Phils and Mets (and maybe even the Nats, who appear to have some cash to spend finally).
NoBreggie4Dogs
December 14th, 2010
1:39 pm
keylargo – the owners of the Filthies or well… filthy rich
Steve from OH
December 14th, 2010
1:43 pm
A few clips from the Fredi Gonzalez interview over at BP:
“DL: What are the organization’s expectations regarding your use of numbers?
FG: I think that the only thing our organization wants is to win. They have… and I’ve seen [general manager] Frank Wren involve himself in some numbers. I’m getting to know some of the acronyms, like BABIP, WHIP, DIPS, and things like zone ratings. That kind of stuff. There is a lot of information out there that can help you win a ballgame.
DL: What is more important at the top of the lineup, athleticism and speed or on-base percentage?
FG: On-base percentage is important. If you don’t get guys on, you’re going to have a tough time scoring runs. Sometimes you see teams putting speed guys up there instead, and I guess maybe that’s tradition, but you wish you had both—on-base-percentage guys who can run—at the top of the order. Sometimes the way your roster is, you can’t get both. But on-base percentage is big.”
Rest of the interview is over at B-P.
civilied white trash
December 14th, 2010
1:43 pm
bravofan please explain why my opinion is so trashy besides all the typos on papaer the phils are the better team as they were last year too. this year they will be better again losing werth picking up lee is an upgrade for them. losing infante picking up uggla is an up grade for the braves. but the phils are the team to beat as much as it pains me to say that they are this move is bigger then them trading for halladay last year
Steve from OH
December 14th, 2010
1:44 pm
For those who would accuse me of cherry-picking, Fredi says he takes into account the stats and his “gut feeling,” and that he isn’t 100% a stats guy. Just so we’re clear…
DAP
December 14th, 2010
1:45 pm
chrisinpittsburg Said very simply…the Braves need to do something about manufacturing runs…and I am of the opinion that getting a legitmate leadoff hitter with speed would solve some of these issues.
getting one of the best power hitters in the game right now did nothing for them, hunh?
c’mon ya’ll. the braves have been getting runners on like crazy for the past couple of years, and they needed some slugging to get these guys in. i think putting uggla in the middle of our lineup has made us an 800 run club, which is a huge jump from last season. maybe thats a little optimistic for you, but lets see what happens.
Mixxo
December 14th, 2010
1:46 pm
Lew -
Yeah, I still love Buckingham (awesome player!) and their tunes from that era, but also dig the Kirwan/Welch eras as well. Heck, it’s all good.
BravePack
December 14th, 2010
1:47 pm
Carroll
Nothing new to update as fas as Uggla extension?
Mixxo
December 14th, 2010
1:48 pm
I still think we’ll be alright in the division. Just being glib earlier….no doom or gloom. Relax will yas?
NoBreggie4Dogs
December 14th, 2010
1:49 pm
Just think L Buckingham is very “underrated”… but it is all excellent
Travis
December 14th, 2010
1:49 pm
The Braves payroll had very little to do with who got Cliff Lee. The Braves front office isn’t dumb enough to not know what was happening in the Lee talks. The Braves didn’t need someone like him in their rotation and when the time comes for Chipper and Lowe to ramble off into the sunset, the Phillies will be in the throws of some pretty expensive contracts. Things will even out in 2013 and the Braves will have some money to spend and some contracts to guarantee. It looks like the Braves have the upper hand in this new era of pitching trumps most everything. Be patient, Atlanta wasn’t built in a day. To those that lament the fans not filling the stadium so payroll won’t rise. One question. What is your guarantee that if they come they will build it?
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
1:50 pm
Thank you, Mike (numbletard ref earns a warm spot in my heart, LOL).
But my BAPIP (batting average on posts in play) has been waaay over my norm today. Expect me to start regressing to the mean at any moment; that kind of luck can’t hold.
T for Texas
December 14th, 2010
1:52 pm
If you take the 2008 season out of Cliff Lee’s stats, in the remaining 8 years of his career he is 80-58 with an ERA of 4.09.
Yeah, I am reposting this off the bottom of last page–looks like to the bottom of this one. LOL. But I do think these numbers are telling. Not like you can remove one statistical year from the beginning of Maddux, Glav, Halladay, Clemens, et. al. carrer numbers and have them become very ordinary.
Steve from OH
December 14th, 2010
1:54 pm
If you take the 2008 season out of Cliff Lee’s stats, in the remaining 8 years of his career he is 80-58 with an ERA of 4.09.
Yeah, and if you take away 714 of Babe Ruth’s home runs, he’s just a fat guy.
ncscoots
December 14th, 2010
1:56 pm
Yeah, and if you take away 714 of Babe Ruth’s home runs, he’s just a fat guy.
Post of the day from Steve-OH, LOL.
chris
December 14th, 2010
1:58 pm
phillies have over $170 million committed for next season (including blanton who they are trying to trade) this is getting silly. i know the braves were outspending everyone in the 90’s but they had ted turner. the phillies…they are owned by a corperation of bill giles who seemingly isnt as rich frank mcourt and others. also, the team is believed to be worth around $537 million based on forbes.com…and their payroll is already 30% percent of what the team is worth! talk about out of control spending!
T for Texas
December 14th, 2010
1:58 pm
Just think L Buckingham is very “underrated”…
Interesting guitar player, he employs the mechanics of playing the banjo and adapts that to guitar.
dpelfrey
December 14th, 2010
2:01 pm
Hey guys, however you try to reason through this, the Phillies will be a stiff challenge in any 3-game series, cause you’ll have to face at least 2 of these guys. But the good news is the Braves have 144 games against teams OTHER than the Phillies, so there’s plenty of opportunities to take care of business and win 95 games. Just means they can’t go 8-10 against the Nats again.
T for Texas
December 14th, 2010
2:01 pm
Dang, Steve–
Ouch. Do you really think it is that unsound to look at a 9 year career minus 1 single season of stats?
Snotboogie
December 14th, 2010
2:03 pm
I thought T for Texas’s stat put into perspective the fact that Lee has between pretty up and down. ERA of 4.09 over 7 seasons does not look too ace-like.
The glib remark it received on the other hand…..
Bat Masterson
December 14th, 2010
2:11 pm
Yeah, and if you take away 714 of Babe Ruth’s home runs, he’s just a fat guy.
Yeah, a fat HOF pitcher. Better that that Lee dude.
T for Texas
December 14th, 2010
2:12 pm
Yeah, and if you take away 714 of Babe Ruth’s home runs, he’s just a fat guy.
Let’s say you take Babe Ruth’s 60 HR season (not an insignificant dent) out of his stats. 654 career home runs is hardly just a fat guy.
ramblingman
December 14th, 2010
2:13 pm
Funny how so many on here are willing to proclaim the Braves a totally lost cause in the offensive side of things. We are hearing that without getting at least one more player and maybe more, the Braves are losers, destined to continue suffering their horrible offensive woes.
Here are a couple of funny items for some of you to chew on. Here are the NL ranks for Atlanta in some offensive categories.
Runs per game – 5th
Runs – 5th
Hits – 7th
Doubles – 1st
RBI’s – 5th
BB’s – 1st
K’s – 6th fewest
Avg – 6th
OBP – 1st
Slg – 9th (hello Uggla)
OPS – 6th
OPS+ – 3rd
The only offensive categories they did not finish above the league average were 3Bs, HRs, and SBs (not caught stealing, only stolen bases)
sri
December 14th, 2010
2:14 pm
T for Texas, Snotboogie… Lee was an ok pitcher before his stint in the minor leagues in 2007 (hard to believe he was actually demoted to the minors). Something clicked for him in the minors and since then he has been the 2nd most valuable pitcher in the majors behind Roy Halladay.
Since 2008.. G W-L IP ERA WAR
Halladay – 99, 58-31, 735, 2.67, 21.5
Lee – 93, 48-25, 667, 2.98, 20.9
Tomas
December 14th, 2010
2:16 pm
Braves have “two weak positions”. CF and SS. Alex Gonzalez isn’t so bad, considering that he is a good fielder, and has pop. But CF is a huge hole.
Andrew McCutchen, Justin Upton, Matt Kemp, or Colby Rasmus would be awesome and would put the Braves at least in paper in the same level as philadelphia very complete team.
cabravesfan
December 14th, 2010
2:18 pm
Tomas-
Only problem is 3 f those 4 guys are not available and we don’t really have the pieces (or are not willing to give them up) for Rasmus
D.J.
December 14th, 2010
2:19 pm
Well, on a positive note, if the NL doesn’t win the All-Star game again this year I’ll be surprised. Even with the pitching restrictions, at least three of the Phillies starters would be eligible for the game, plus other great NL pitchers like Josh Johnson, Lincecum, Cain, Jimenez, Carpenter, Wainwright, Hudson, et al could potentially be available. It’s strange to see so many more dominant pitchers in the NL than the AL. Although the AL should have Sabathia, Price, Hernandez, Beckett, Lester, and potentially Greinke if he doesn’t get traded and gets back to form, I’d still take the NL in a heartbeat.
That said, I hate the Phillies.
T for Texas
December 14th, 2010
2:24 pm
sri-
I hear what you’re saying. But that set of numbers is heavily skewed by the 2008 season as well. Subtract that 22-3 and you have him going 25-22 over the last two years. Not saying he isn’t a very good pitcher, I just think that his playoff performances against the Yankees the last two years have skewed the perception of him, ala Beltran’s playoff run with the Astros prior to his mega deal with the Mets.
TennesseePaul
December 14th, 2010
2:26 pm
“We play the game to win,” Sherrill said [at his introduction press conference]. “This is a good place to do that. This year, to me, the [National League] East looks wide open. So I don’t know why we can’t. I think I can play some sort of role in helping. If I can get it turned around, that can only help.”
Wonder if he still sees it as wide open?
sri
December 14th, 2010
2:27 pm
T, even if you take out 2008, he is the 4th best pitcher in the majors in 2009/2010..
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2010&month=0&season1=2009
McFann O O
December 14th, 2010
2:28 pm
Oh my lord…the Fillies got Lee? Shoot the gun! That twerp’s a lefty isn’t he?
raleighbravefan
December 14th, 2010
2:28 pm
cabravesfan – You beat me to it. I can think of a lot of guys I wish we had. Just like I would like a new car and a bigger house. It ain’t happening, and the Braves ain’t getting one of those guys. I enjoy speculation, but many on here are so unrealistic, it makes them look kinda foolish.
LPad
December 14th, 2010
2:30 pm
Whatever, richbrave. See you’re taking cheapshots. Ooo, foot-pad, real creative. Prove these stories are true. What kind of nonsense is that. They were written by professional baseball writers. What would qualify as proof a written, signed statement by a member of the Brewers or Braves organization.
Sorry, but it was widely reported. Brewers wanted Minor, Braves said maybe for Beachy, Brewers said no. Whether or not, you think Cain is good is irrelevant the Brewers see him as part of their future. They were willing to part with him for Minor, but not Beachy.
Use the Internet, look it up, I don’t have time or the interest to debate that Beachy isn’t highly regarded by the Braves or anyone else in baseball. And when I say highly regarded that means better than a No. 3 starter. The fact that you’re suggesting that Beachy will be better than that is pure nonsense.
Heck, if I’m not mistaken even DOB has said the Braves have gotten calls for Hanson, JJ and Minor. Since you’re on here all the time, go look it up. He posted it during the winter meetings. Then come back here and explain why people aren’t calling for Beachy? Oh, and after spring training explain why Beachy isn’t the No. 5 starter.
Heck, why don’t you explain why he isn’t the projected No. 5 starter right now. I mean he’s a future star right. Why can’t he push out Minor, who projected to be a 2 at best if his velocity holds? Why haven’t the Braves made a spot for him? They would move JJ or Minor if they thought Beachy was better, right? We all know that the Braves will find room for top prospects (for example Furcal, A. Jones, Chipper, Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, Schafer, Minor, etc.). Oh yeah, that’s right the Braves called up Minor first. Most likely because they think he’s better. I mean they’ll have no problem finding a spot for Teheran, right.
Bottomline instead of taking cheapshots, richbrave prove me wrong.
T for Texas
December 14th, 2010
2:33 pm
sri-
Point taken, good link. It’ll be interesting to see how he performs over the life of that contract. I was hoping to watch that unfold in a different division of not a different league.
Hillbilly
December 14th, 2010
2:33 pm
Yeah, and if you take away 714 of Babe Ruth’s home runs, he’s just a fat guy.
On the other hand, take away all of Henry Aaron’s 755 home runs, and he’s just a 3000+ hit Hall of Fame outfielder.
(Just had to sneak in one of my favorite all-time stats.)
NoBreggie4Dogs
December 14th, 2010
2:35 pm
Chris – the other limited partners for the Filthies ownership are mega wealthy, I forget the name of the family but they sold a cigar business for near $3 Billion, and they told their management to loosen the reins on the Filthies payroll around 2007
Tomas
December 14th, 2010
2:35 pm
cabravesfan, Justin Upton is available.
Randall Delgado, and Beachy can be two valuable trade pieces.