8:27 pm December 7, 2010, by David O'Brien
December 8th, 201011:52 am
ramblingman, first lets fire Hewitt. Good game last night for two State schools
Now…like I said before I don’t hate JS. I hate the Super Star crap…If the kids get the job done I’ll be very happy. But I don’t wish to see Young and Nate flop, are anyone. He has been given every chance, most teams he would have been gone. amen.
December 8th, 201011:53 am
Lets make something happen!
Braves, Brewers Still Talking Trade
By Tim Dierkes [December 8 at 10:52am CST]
The Braves and Brewers continue to discuss trades that would send an outfielder to Atlanta for a young pitcher, reports MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. However, the Brewers are more inclined to move Carlos Gomez than Lorenzo Cain. The Brewers requested Mike Minor for Cain, and the Braves balked at trading him or their other top young arms.
December 8th, 201011:55 am
Dave and Curt – very astute posts
1234 – Dave never said one would shine and the other 2 would flop. You should go back and re-read the post. And stop with the “superstar” junk. Asking that the kid be given a chance is hardly worshiping him. Oh, and the “two years of nothing” you keep basing your condemnation of him on were due to injuries. How do you keep refusing to acknowledge that?
December 8th, 201011:57 am
1234 – the only person using “superstar” is you, so if you hate it, quit saying it. Schafer has not been given “every chance”. He was at the level of making the majors when he was injured. He is now fully recovered and deserves a chance to pick up where he left off.
Mountain Braves Fan
December 8th, 201011:58 am
Because of his salary, McClouth will be given every opportunity to be the Braves starting center fielder in 2011. McClouth should be highly motivated to be productive, because if he isn’t, he will be a former major league player in 2012.
December 8th, 201011:59 am
Gomez can fly but I’d rather have Cain but I like Minor..balked=take a base…Just get value for value.
December 8th, 201012:03 pm
ramblingman—have at it …you the man!
December 8th, 201012:27 pm
Not much mention of Heyward and Freeman right now. To me these are just as much of unknowns as anything else. Generally in the major leages, a new player (hitter or pitcher) tends to initially succeed because the opposing hitters or pitchers don’t know them. As a year progresses, the opposing team learns where the holes are in that given player’s swing (pitches for a pitcher) and they adjust by pitching to those weaknesses.
Jason Heyward did not have as good of a second half as the first primarliy because pitchers found his holes and he did not adjust accordingly. Freeman had a few at bats against major leage pitchers and that may have been enough for opposing teams to start figuring him out.
It is very typical for younger players to struggle more in their second year than their first. I Based on this I believe that both players are going to struggle at least a little. Lets hope that Heyward and Freeman along with the new coaches can make the necessary adjustments to allow them to be productive over the balance of the year.
December 8th, 201012:34 pm
The two years of nothing may be due in part to injury, but prior to 2007, Schafer was an average low-level minor league player. Schafer had a good year in 2007, and that’s been it. Of course HGH is in the back of everyone’s mind as a possible reason why this middling player suddenly excelled for a year.
December 8th, 201012:40 pm
Curt – I would put Heyward’s second half down to the hand problem more than lack of adjustment. The team admitted as much several times. You could tell he just could not cut loose with a good swing. I doubt Freeman had enough at bats for him to fall into the sophomore slump category.
Jesse – actually, Schafer was progressing along quite nicely and the scouts (almost all of them, not just the Braves scouts) were predicting very good things for him. Labeling him average doesn’t change things. HGH is not for making people hit better. It’s for recovering from injuries faster. So no, it’s not on the back of everyone’s minds. Saying so does not make it so. His good year was right in line with a natural progression.
December 8th, 201012:55 pm
HGH is used to increase lean muscle and decrease body fat. You are naive to think people don’t believe in the guy you are so staunchly defending because of his 50-game suspension.
December 8th, 201012:58 pm
ramblingman, I know Heyward had hand problems but I watch pitch selection and location. I watch how a better reacts to pitches and injury aside, Heyward has some holes which were exploited by pitchers. I do think that part of his (and pretty much all hitters at some point) problems were also mental. You could see Heyward towards the end of the season not swinging at the same pitches he did at the beginning of the season; such as taking more pitches. Part of this could have been him trying to adjust and part of it could have been bad information from Pendleton (who it appears has the philosophy of taking a lot of pitches).
December 8th, 201012:59 pm
my post was in response to this:
December 8th, 2010
“I look forward to the day when Schafer starts hitting and becomes a good major league hitter whether its with the braves or another team and then all these people that hate him will be singing his praises or will be pissed that we got rid of him.”
December 8th, 20101:02 pm
and for the record, i hadnt responded to any such post.
Jordan Schafer's Mama
December 8th, 20101:05 pm
Don’t be trash talking about my boy !
Mr. Wren is giving him a legitimate shot to win the CF job, and Jordie is in the batting cage every day, sharpening his skills.
The .201 minor league batting average was a fluke.
Besides, Jordie needs the job. Decent paying jobs aren’t too plentiful in this recession.
December 8th, 20101:14 pm
Ramblingman..glad you’re not my lawyer. You would lose your case. Its ok to beleive in and love your man.
December 8th, 20101:27 pm
Jesse – It’s debatable whether or not I am naïve, but you are absolutely wrong to claim that everyone is thinking that HGH is responsible for Schafer’s stats. For the last time, my “staunchly defending” him consists of saying he should be given a chance. Why are you so dead set against simply giving the guy a chance to win a job?
Curt – Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t saying players don’t have adjustments made on them, and Heyward had some made. But I think the dropoff in production had more to do with the hand than the adjustments. Besides, from everything I’ve seen, I am confident he’ll adjust and be just fine.
Ryan C – yes, that is why I referenced the post to which you made two replies. But I must admit that you are confusing me with the “I responded to this post. I did not respond to any post.”
Oledawg – the fact that I have not persuaded you only shows that you are set in your beliefs. It has nothing to do with the type of lawyer I would be. Your beliefs are also revealed by you picking up on the “love” junk being thrown around by those who disparage Schafer to discourage those who simply… ask… that… the… kid… be… given… a… chance. I’m sure even you can understand that concept.
December 8th, 20101:33 pm
you confronted me about “already responding to that post” and called me immature for responding twice…i hadnt, and frankly dont know what you’re talking about.
December 8th, 20101:41 pm
hell I love everyone whats your problem.
December 8th, 20101:43 pm
Ryan C – my apologies. I misread Jesse’s posts as one of yours. I really should know better than to try and get work done and follow a forum at the same time. Sigh… As I said, my apologies. I was only using immature in the sense that I thought you were replying more than once to the same post and had used the word yourself.
December 8th, 20101:46 pm
With no money to spend and unable to trade Nate McLouth, I have no choice but to tout Jordan Schafer.
I’m stuck !
December 8th, 20101:48 pm
it’s cool. ‘pology accepted.
now….who are we getting for kawakami? how ’bout matt diaz back. no, this isnt a real suggestion.
December 8th, 20101:58 pm
Wow, was just reading about Pena signing for $10M with the Cubs. That’s with a avg below .200 and a big K rate. True, he does still hit the long ball and handles the 1B mitt as well as anyone, but geesh.
My poor Rays are being torn apart.
December 8th, 20101:59 pm
Winter meeting will be good for Braves if Frank trades KK. We really don’t know whats going on with Brewers..maybe something good will happen. The D-backs are wheeling and dealing …alot of good players still out there.
will check back in few hours.
December 8th, 20102:06 pm
Okay, I am not one to dwell on trade scenarios usually. That being said, I am reading about the market for Matt Garza heating up and am thinking to myself, you know, they could probably at least find out who TB would want for Bartlett and Garza then they could spin JJ and Gonzo to somebody else for something. Maybe an outfielder or RP and some prospects. I am sure Wren has at least inquired. I would be most happy to see either Bartlett or Garza or both in Atlanta.
December 8th, 20102:13 pm
“now….who are we getting for kawakami?”
Seeing as they are willing to eat salary to dump Doumit, how about we just swap them and call it even?
December 8th, 20102:14 pm
congrats to Francoeur for getting 1 yr @ $3M with a $3M option with KC
December 8th, 20102:33 pm
Amazingly, he reports he began feeling strong again after Sep 2010. After the full recovery period, he has been working out with success.
That’s pretty amazing. As soon as he finishes seeing live pitching…POOF! he’s feeling strong again.
December 8th, 20102:54 pm
I don’t nor do I think anyone on here “hates” Schafer, but to act like he is the answer to CF or the Braves saving grace is ludicrous. I will root for him as long as he’s in a Braves uniform, frustration and hate are 2 different things. Now Yunel….I despised him.
KK will belong to either the Pirates or the Orioles hopefully by the end of the day. Wren is just seeing who will eat the most salary. Hopefully more than 2 million but doubtful, will probably send him to Pittsburgh and they’ll send us 1.5 mil.
December 8th, 20103:19 pm
Looks like George Sherrill will be wearing a Braves uniform, the pen will be lefty rich.
December 8th, 20103:27 pm
I swear……guess I gotta watch other games every so often (but how can I DO that when I get ALL the Braves games?) ’cause some of these names being thrown out there, I’ve never heard of.
December 8th, 20103:30 pm
I will grant you that almost no one on here “hates” Schafer as long as you will grant me that almost no one on here considers him the “saving grace” of the Braves
December 8th, 20103:31 pm
“That’s pretty amazing. As soon as he finishes seeing live pitching…POOF! he’s feeling strong again.”
but then again, the ones who are down on Schafer are obviously more extreme in their feelings
December 8th, 20103:39 pm
The way most people on here are referring to him they expect him to be a 30/30 guy for the Braves for years to come. I just don’t quite understand why people are still so high on him. He had fantastic hype when he brought up to the bigs but that was short lived hype. How has it carried on for 2 years?
Like I said, I would love for him to make me look like a complete idiot for saying he’s nothing more than a defensive replacement type player-but he has yet to show me anything more than that. But hey, he’s only 24 right.
December 8th, 20103:49 pm
There are very few people on here referring to him as if he is expected to hit 30/30 for years. That is hyperbole. There are, however, people on here who are much more adamant that he is a) a drug user b) completely useless c) undeserving of any chance whatsoever and so on. It’s the negative side that is extreme, not the positive side. Mostly, those have simply said, give him a chance and let’s see what he can do. I have said that myself several times.
December 8th, 20103:56 pm
Not down on Schafer. Just not as high on him as others. Fair or not (injury), he should be no higher on the scale than Young. Young has been better more recently than Schafer. Schafer was ONCE upon a time.
December 8th, 20103:59 pm
I consider myself a realist about Schafer-rambling you seem overly optimistic about him. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say to not give him a chance. But there are several who seem to think he’s useless. We can go back and forth all day long, but I don’t have time for that. I just try to see things as they are.
December 8th, 20104:20 pm
If thinking that he deserves a chance is being “overly optimistic” then yeah I am guilty. Let’s look at the comments made in this thread. Let’s start with the antiSchafer remarks.
a mannequin might be an better option. Steroids obviously did something to these hasbeens. // I totally agree with you.Schafer is a ST hero that can’t hit. Last year he was in Gwinnwtt and could not hit,then was optioned to Mississippi and still did not hit, less than .200. Then quit and went home. two years and a secret wrist injury and still nothing. How about the drugs? // How much longer can we give McLouth & Schafer? They’ve both been huge disasters ! // Schafer must have photos of Frank Wren in the shower ! Why is he still being mentioned? // He is horrendous on offense, will NOT be a starter BUT can be brought in as a defensive replacement-just don’t know if the Braves would waste a spot on him // The quotations are that all his woes are b/c of his wrist injury, HGH has affected many players play also // i hope he does well, but let’s get real: his 1 1/2 good years of .865ish OPS was good, but not great, and that’s all he’s proved
Jordan Schafer had ONE good year, 2007. Look up his stats. Nothing good before 2007, nothing good after // Expecting Jordan Schafer to outproduce Nate in CF, when Nate had 3 full years of an .820 OPS is extremely wishful thinking // Never been any proof that he used HGH…..then why was he given 50 days off..just for fun? Why was he told not to talk about it? No proof that the public got to see. They don’t punish you for nothing // Steroids betrayed Schafer & McLouth // several are scratching their heads as to why this guy has such a loyal following for someone that has done so little // I don’t hate Schafer. I wish the kid luck. But the media and bloggers make out like he is “the O’Mighty” until he proves himself on a longer term base give it a break. How many time have the fans heard the “super star” crap and the kids a one year wonder, falls on his face. // Is it too much to admit that most Pro-Schafer fans use that month of spring, the first week of his MLB career, and 1 1/2 seasons in the minors to lean on and completely ignore how blindingly awful he’s been at other times? // What makes you believe JS is going to Shine after 2 years of nothing. // prior to 2007, Schafer was an average low-level minor league player. Schafer had a good year in 2007, and that’s been it. Of course HGH is in the back of everyone’s mind as a possible reason why this middling player suddenly excelled for a year. // That’s pretty amazing. As soon as he finishes seeing live pitching…POOF! he’s feeling strong again // I don’t nor do I think anyone on here “hates” Schafer, but to act like he is the answer to CF or the Braves saving grace is ludicrous
Now let’s look at some of the comments from the positive side
right give up two young stud pitchers before we see if Mclouth or Schaeffer can even bounce back // Schafer still has value. He was our #3 prospect 2 years ago…do you just give up on those kind of players? // How bout yall let the guy prove hes been workin his tail off to get back to this before yall talk trash about him. // Lets see if he bounces back in spring training. // While I will grant you that Schafer has not shown any reason to believe he will definitely win the CF job, I will also remind you that he has shown absolutely no reason to think he will be an utter failure. He deserves a chance // Cut the guy some slack // Now be so kind as to allow him that time without slamming him before Spring Training even starts // I look forward to the day when Schafer starts hitting and becomes a good major league hitter whether its with the braves or another team and then all these people that hate him will be singing his praises or will be pissed that we got rid of him // But, I am quite willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him prove himself now that he is healthy again // The guy is a game winner when he’s right. I say keep the competition open and let’s see what Frank and Freddi decide at the end of ST // how about we give him spring training and, unless he completely flops, a few weeks at least in the majors to show us what he’s got.
Okay, on one side we heard mannequin, steroids, can’t hit, disaster, horrendous, HGH, steroids, and accusations that the other side glorifies him.
On the other side we heard still has value, let him prove, see if he bounces back, deserves a chance, cut him slack, give him benefit of doubt, keep the competition open, let him show us what he’s got, and one post where they can’t wait for him to become a major league hitter.
Be honest and you tell me which side is full of hyperbole.
December 8th, 20104:37 pm
You’re using the resources of a quip blog for precedence? I’m referencing to the entire internet then and everything that I’ve read people say and actual face to face conversations I’ve had about him. Going back through what just a few people gave their opinions about, and picking apart everything they had said is flat out silly and superfluous. What I or anyone else on this blog – even the writer- say makes no difference to the decision making of a MLB front office. Agree to disagree if you will but quit wasting your time trying to contradict what people say on the comments section.
December 8th, 20104:59 pm
Ahhh, you are going global. Then perhaps you should refrain from coming in during the middle of a conversation that has been going on all day and insinuating yourself into it. Perhaps I was just thrown off by your first comment where you said no one ON HERE hated Schafer. I did not realize the “here” you were referring to was Earth. My bad.
Oh, and since you are considering the entire world, stop calling me overly optimistic for asking that a 24 year old kid be given a chance to show his stuff.
December 8th, 20105:07 pm
Sherrill could be a good complement to the pen at a decent price.
December 8th, 20105:23 pm
Someone could come in at the tail end of this piece and still read and understand what is going on, its not coming in during the middle of a conversation b/c everything that was “said” is still available. You probably would like to see his “stuff”….
December 8th, 20107:03 pm
oohh, wow, what an intelligent comeback. Sorry I couldn’t give you more to shoot for.
December 8th, 20108:26 pm
My God, ramblingman has a lot of time on his hands!!!
December 8th, 20109:07 pm
Not sure if this has been posted already.
Frenchy signs with the Royals for $2.5 mil for next season, and a $4 mil mutual option for 2012.
Who was the blogger talking about Jeff potentially playing well in the world series, and getting a good contract? or how he didnt leave that much money on the table by not signing the deal Mac did?
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