10:08 pm November 29, 2010, by David O'Brien
December 2nd, 201012:00 am
Agreed Frank. I’ve said this a few times, but I respect the fact that my team has a budget for those sort of things, and is responsible to hold to that budget.
Granted, if we were 1 player short in July and we needed “Player X” to get us over the top, I’d hope that FW would have some latitude to add some additional salary for the short run to make it happen.
But it was clearly obvious that FW wasn’t taking any chances with his payroll when Soriano accepted arbitration and he quickly dealt him away. I am guessing that was because MFIKY was getting ready to put a kink in his payroll!
The Rico Rodriguez for Matt Diaz trade worked out pretty well.
December 2nd, 201012:03 am
The braves have done what they need to do for Hinske. They offered him a contract and a raise over last year. He was an important piece to this team last year and would be again. He provided veteran leadership and a youthfulness this team had lacked over the years. With that being said hes not a backbreaker for this team. At least IMO his biggest asset is being able to come off the bench and you know he can change the game with one swing. Those guys can be hard to come by. If he goes to MIL I really hope the braves look into someone that can fill that role regardless if they are LH or RH. His intangibles can be replaced with someone elses intangibles. Theres more than one veteran in the FA that could step in and fill the same role. The Braves have done their part. Ball is in Hinske’s court now.
Fredi's Fu Manchu
Thanks for the Schafer update. FYI, impressive day for you on the blog today. Keep it up – really cold in Chicago.
December 2nd, 201012:04 am
Wow – just read that Jamie Moyer had Tommy John surgery and is planning on attempting a comeback in 2012.
He’d be 49
In the history of the game, only three men have pitched after their 49th birthday, two (for a total of 5.2 innings) pitched after age 50
This has little to do with the Braves, and little chance of actually happening, but it would be something to see
December 2nd, 201012:05 am
“make McLouth the hitting coach,,,
Hinske can do fitness
Conrad can be fielding coach
There, problems solved.”
if you’re gonna assign jobs by anti-competence like that, you might as well bring back Cox as manager for another decade
December 2nd, 201012:06 am
I can’t say its a good thing that all of these US diplomatic cables are now out there for public viewing, but some of this stuff makes for interesting reading if you’re in to geopolitics and reading about the ‘back-room’ conversations governments have amongst themselves, and the such.
To have the veil lifted.
December 2nd, 201012:07 am
I’d sure love to see the Braves and Matt Diaz get together on a reasonable contact. For a righty platoon guy, there aren’t many that are better.
I have been one of the folks on here that have held out hope that Schafer gets his act together and is able to provide some outfield depth for the Braves.
He was certainly our top dog 2 years ago. Had a really good spring, and started fast in April of 2009. Granted, that was a small sample; but how much was the injury, I don’t know if anybody really knows.
It’ll be interesting to watch him next year. I am not counting on him, just extremely hopeful. (now if we could get him to get rid of that stupid gansta baseball cap…….)
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
December 2nd, 201012:08 am
Fredi’s Fu Manchu
Too make a long story short..(and some may want to shoot me for this but I have very good reasons)…I started watching the Braves BIG time in 91 along WITH my Royals ….and was a major fan of both teams. I sorta lost interest in the Royals in 93 (which I think is when George Brett-retired). It wasn’t because of all the losing (which that was a small part of it)…but George Brett was, is and will always be my all-time favorite player. I see Chipper as a George Brett-type too…that’s probably why I like Chipper a lot.
I still follow the Royals even somewhat now…just not as much as I did when I was growing up…and I’d like to see them get back to being a good organization again…BUT until they get an owner who actually cares about winning, etc….the Royals are going to be a laughing-stock of MLB.
December 2nd, 201012:09 am
Russell – Agreed. Hate that it’s out there, but I keep reading it. Different kind of hot stove.
In other times, that sort of espionage woulda got a guy whacked!
December 2nd, 201012:11 am
Hey – this is also fairly non-relevent, but I had a sudden thought – one of those “whatever happened to” things
Whatever happened to Jung Bong (one of the best names ever)
Di his arm get smoked?
December 2nd, 201012:12 am
I hear ya Frank, but think glass half full – you could be a Pirate fan and have balance sheets all over the web proving your stealing from the fans.
December 2nd, 201012:13 am
opps……George retired AFTER the 93 season.
December 2nd, 201012:14 am
Rule 5 guys have to stay in the bigs the entire season or you have to offer them back to the original team for $25,000. There have been a few good pick ups over the years but most never amount to all that much.
It tends to be easier for a poor team to be willing to carry an unproven minor leaguer (after all they are in the draft cause their original team does not think enough of them to protect them compared to their other talent) all year in the bigs than it is for a competing team-which is trying to maximize all it’s slots- to do so.
I thought Bong was going to come around and be a decent pitcher. And Jamie Moyer gives us old guys a lot of hope. I hope he is able to come back and pitch.
December 2nd, 201012:15 am
Yeah, I’d throw being a Pirates fan out of the people that %$#@ and moan about Liberty Media being so damn cheap too.
December 2nd, 201012:16 am
DOB – If I may ask…where are the Royals in terms of payroll with everyone else?
I get to fly to Jacksonville on Sunday! Maybe I’ll get groped! Can I chose “grope” over “scan”?
December 2nd, 201012:19 am
If you wanna be groped, take the bus. happens all the time in them things
December 2nd, 201012:21 am
Cots says 75 mil this yr – to compare they had Braves at 84 mil
December 2nd, 201012:26 am
DS1 – I think you can choose if in ATL. But you get same sex groper (or) AND you get same sex groper! Not that I care either way, I do not.
AU in BIG trouble...
Not that this has anything to do with the Braves…but…
Will come out in 2011…???…more on this pay-for-performance stuff and it directly leads to yes…the following folks:
Pat Dye (ex-AD and head football coach…whom for some damn reason is still “involved” with AU…even though he was FIRED for recruiting scandal…)
Jay Jacobs (current AD and a Pat Dye “boy”…)
Bobby Lowder (”crooked” ex-banker of now defunct Colonial Bank and a Pat Dye “boy”)
Milton McGregor (recently arrested owner of “VictoryLand” racetrack…)
Loaded-up ATM cards, “fixed” casino wins, all easy money for AU players…NOW, all under scrutiny by the F.B.I. and the NCAA. Nothing to do with the Cecil Newton / Miss. State debacle!
AU could get “death penalty” if this pans out…OUCH.
Just look it up…it is out there people.
December 2nd, 201012:27 am
George Brett and Chipper Jones
One of them has one MVP, one top three finish in MVP voting, 6 AS games, one silver slugger, no Gold Gloves, one batting title, and a lifetime adjusted OPS of 142
The other has one MVP, three top ten finishes in MVP voting, 13 AS nominations, 3 silver sluggers, 1 Gold Glove, three batting titles, and a lifetime adjusted OPS of 135
Brett was also a far more complete player than Chipper – he was a decent fielder, a good baserunner,and provided some leadership above and beyond blind loyalty to management and tracking the team’s tee times
Chipper Jones was a GREAT hitter. Of that there can be no real arguement.
Chipper Jones did one thing better than George Brett – hit for power
Are Chipper Jones and George Brett somewhat similar? Sure
Are they really comparable? Kinda like silver and gold
December 2nd, 201012:28 am
“If you wanna be groped, take the bus. happens all the time in them things”
Yeah but if you wanna get groped, but keep your wallet and NOT catch herpes, better avoid MARTA
December 2nd, 201012:38 am
Robert – here’s George’s HR totals from 73 – 93
0, 2, 11, 7, 22, 9, 23, 24, 6, 21, 25, 13, 30 (World Series year in 85), 16, 22, 24, 12, 14, 10, 7 and in his final year (93)….he hit 19.
and also Robert….he was one HELLUVA fielder…and so is (or should I say was) Chipper. George also (before becoming a full-time DH) played 1st base. Why couldn’t Chipper have played 1st base? I know Wren has/had different ideas….but it has been done before.
December 2nd, 201012:39 am
Springsteen on Jimmy Fallon (best late night guy imo) from a few weeks ago airing now. Later.
December 2nd, 201012:41 am
ALSO, for those who still think that Cecil took the money…he did not?
NO evidence that he received one red cent from AUBURN or obviously, MISS. STATE.,
SO, Cam can play at AU, because no proof…once again, that he knew Daddy was shopping him to MISS. STATE.
NO smoking gun…only statements that were not videotaped (?).
Cecil is not permitted near any AU athletic function…
CAM…clean as a whistle? SEC and NCAA just said so, but, still investigating.
NOT even in the same league as Reggie Bush and what went on at USC.
AND by the way, how does Julio Jones afford an ESCALADE, the car he is driving around Tuscaloosa…much less stay in school? Have you ever heard that guy try and speak one clear sentence. CANNOT happen…spot him the c and t, he will not spell CAT correctly!
December 2nd, 201012:43 am
the onliest folks in the entire world who think Chipper was ever a great fielder are a few deludtrue believer Braves fans
December 2nd, 201012:46 am
AU in BIG trouble
The same can be said about Trent Richardson. I live in the same city as his family. I know he is receiving perks. But what college player isn’t right?
December 2nd, 201012:49 am
Nolie – ya know, I think if Chipper knew what I said, he’d probably think that was pretty high praise….saying he’s a George Brett-type of player.
December 2nd, 201012:50 am
Hopefully during the winter meetings Hinske will provide someone an answer.
December 2nd, 201012:52 am
Pat Burrell resigned with Giants. They seem to have all their holes filled now leaving someone w/out a job. Wheres Dero going to play?
Your right Robert (as much as I hate to admit it). Chipper HAS hit for more power than George did, but outside THAT fact….they’re very comparable…in so many other ways.
December 2nd, 201012:54 am
I’m sure he would Frank. and it would be a compliment no doubt. Brett was a somewhat better all around player than Chipper. I gotta admit that even though Chipper is my all time favorite Brave just ahead of Murph.
December 2nd, 20101:01 am
Nolie – and why Murph isn’t in the HOF, I’ll never know.
I know it took years, and years to get (what’s his name…the R. Sox that was just voted in last year, two years ago?), but jezzzz….Murph is one that should’ve been in a LONG time ago.
A non-Brave who should ALSO be in and that’s B. Blyleven (sp)
December 2nd, 20101:02 am
“and also Robert….he was one HELLUVA fielder…and so is (or should I say was) Chipper. George also (before becoming a full-time DH) played 1st base. Why couldn’t Chipper have played 1st base? I know Wren has/had different ideas….but it has been done before”
At his very best, Chipper was an adequate fielder – never even approached greatness in that area
Now as for Chipper at first – interesting thought.
December 2nd, 20101:09 am
“Your right Robert (as much as I hate to admit it). Chipper HAS hit for more power than George did, but outside THAT fact….they’re very comparable…in so many other ways.”
Hmmm – All the stuff I pointed out seemed to me to indicate that except for hitting for power, Brett was clearly superior to Chipper in every facet of the game
Comparable like gold and silver
This is kind of an old discussion. (the specific arguement re Brett vs Chipper may be new, but the discussion of where Chipper stands all-time re his legacy is an old one
My opinion of Chipper as regards his legacy – One of the elite hitters of his time, one of the elite switch hitters of all time. Aside from hitting, he is a zero. Defense, baserunning, team presence, leadership, any other peripherals – zero.
A deserving second or third ballot HOF
December 2nd, 20101:11 am
nothing interesting about it. for the type of injuries that usually fell Chipper, first base with all it’s stretching would not be a healthy place for him. feet and legs take a beating there and stretching and contorting to catch wayward throws would be straining his obliques more than necessary
Good points, Robert.
Do you like anyone on the braves or is this a team you just love to hate? You say that they’re your team but constantly throw them under the bus?
December 2nd, 20101:15 am
bulloney. the guy stole a lot of bases for a power hitter. when he was signed he was the fastest player to first from the righthand box they had timed. Even last year after the original injury and at 38 he went from 1st to third and from second to home on most every hit he should have. as for leadership he was one of the great influences that kept Shef calm and happy here and if you did not see the effort he put into that then you are as friggin’ blind about him as you are about Bobby.
December 2nd, 20101:24 am
*looks at Nolie and starts to clap his hands*
December 2nd, 20101:27 am
“Nolie – and why Murph isn’t in the HOF, I’ll never know. ”
That one is easy. Because he wasnt good enough long enough in good enough surroundings
Murphy was a superstar for basically six seasons – 1980,82,83,84,85, and 87
Aside from those years he had an adjusted OPS over 120 only once. His career adjusted OPS was 121
Five Gold Gloves is a nice peripheral.
And then we of course have to address the folks who will always claim what a great guy Murphy was/is. Sure, that’s nice. It’s a peripheral – but it’s a weak one. The popularity/nice guy angle is much more powerful when it’s working against you than when it’s working for a marginal candidate (just ask Dick Allen)
I have always been one who favors a smaller more elite HOF. If you look at every guy who you could make some kind of reasonable case for to be in the HOF – boy there’s lots of them. All the big popularity long-standing franchiseshave two, three or more of these guys. But to me, the very arguement against all these guys is that there are too many – too many like them.
To me, the HOF should be about only those guys that it cant live without. And Murphy, beloved as he is by a generation of Braves fans, is not one of those cant live without guys
Now, it hasnt always been that way. That doesnt mean that just because we made mistakes, we have to keep the bar forever lowered. What do you do with the mistakes? I dunno. All I know is we dont have to keep adding mediocrity just because a few mediocres got enshrined.
Enos Slaughter — in my book, he’s the last man in the door at the HOF
December 2nd, 20101:30 am
Nolie – I am fully aware that Chipper stole a fair number of bases for a power hitter.
He had pretty good speed in his day.
Speed is a tool.
Baserunning is a skill.
Has Chipper been a good baserunner, then, with his speed, he couldve stolen more bases than he did.
Which doesnt even address the issue that stealing is only one aspect of baserunning
Baserunning is about how you make the turns, how you take the extra base, how you dont cost your team outs on the basepaths
Despite the fairly high number of steals for a power hitter, Chipper Jones was overall an average baserunner at best
December 2nd, 20101:35 am
Robert – This site (thebaseballpage dot com) lists all the games George played in relation to position
Third Base (1,692 games), DH (506 games), first base (461 games), outfield (36 games), shortstop (11 games)
December 2nd, 20101:36 am
“Even last year after the original injury and at 38 he went from 1st to third and from second to home on most every hit he should have”
The great baserunner dont take the extra base ALMOST every time they should
“As for leadership he was one of the great influences that kept Shef calm and happy here”
As for leadership, he was Cox’s number one “boy”. Never played thru pain, was happy so long as he was the prima donna.
I wont quite say Chipper was Roger Dorn whose manager loved him – but it aint far off.
Robert, I’m not sure why I’m responding to you, but did you even read nolie’s comment? He didn’t just say Chipper was fast, he said Chipper was a good baserunner who did what he could to move an extra base when possible. Gooooood job.
December 2nd, 20101:37 am
Thanks Frank. I will add that site to my library.
Personally, I use baseball-reference.com more than anything else when looking for or at any stats or info on players
I’d like to abridge my last comment to, “I’m not sure why I’m responding to you.”
December 2nd, 20101:38 am
So I don’t see why JS, Bobby or even Wren couldn’t have went to Chipper and asked about the potentional of him playing 1st..two, three years ago or more ago.
December 2nd, 20101:40 am
“He didn’t just say Chipper was fast, he said Chipper was a good baserunner who did what he could to move an extra base when possible”
No – he didnt.
He said Chipper was fast when signed and said that he got the extra base most of the times he should have.
Going first to third MOST of the time when you should isnt a great baserunner
Being fastest on the stopwatch first to third when signed out of high school isnt gfreat baserunning wither
Going first to third even some times when you didnt think he could, and doing that without costing your team outs on the basepaths – THAT’s great baserunning
No problem Robert..
in-fact, here’s the link
December 2nd, 20101:43 am
Here’s the problem I have with Chipper’s leadership
Chipper was a devoted Cox disciple.
In other words, he swallowed and spread Cox’s self-fulfilling and self-defeating philosophy that the playoffs are a crap shoot
He took the cyanide pill that was offered to him, bit into it, and then told his teammates to drink the Kool Aid
December 2nd, 20101:47 am
For what it’s worth – the site Frank cited and listed has Brett ranked third and Chipper sixth all-time among third basemen
December 2nd, 20101:53 am
Actually, that site is pretty cool – it’s got some neat lists and factoids. The lists are more subjective/opinion type stuff than baseball-reference.com’s stats and leaderboards, but the two sites might prove to dovetail nicely
December 2nd, 20101:55 am
Baserunning is about how you make the turns, how you take the extra base, how you dont cost your team outs on the basepaths ROBERT
can you not read and comprehend? I said he went two bases with little trouble last year even at his age. dude you are soooo full of crap and say so many baseball ignorant things that i swear to God at times I think you are coach
December 2nd, 20102:00 am
Nolie – “that i swear to God at times I think you are coach”
I’m sorry Robert….but that’s harilious
December 2nd, 20102:02 am
nite y’all. have a gooddun
December 2nd, 20102:03 am
Hello! I think the Braves should let Diaz go……Sign Kerry Woods or Putz.
December 2nd, 20102:05 am
Check out the new movie True Grit. It looks awsome!!!!!
December 2nd, 20102:08 am
Any one going to watch the Cleveland and Heat Game Thursday? I’ll be at work, but i’ll check later on ESPN if on .
December 2nd, 20102:14 am
Ward, yes i’ll watch, and I hope Miami gets smoked.
I’m feeling pretty good about Uggla in the lineup. Hinske needs to resign. He had fire, and that bomb against the Marlins in late Sept doesn’t hurt his case. In all honesty, a bullpen arm and a bench piece and we’re competitive. Let Wren handle what has to be handled mid-season.
December 2nd, 20102:16 am
or re-sign. Not quit. Please don’t quit.
December 2nd, 20102:18 am
Nolie: Chipper has always been a good base runner. He was a smart base runner.He knew what to do in tight spots, and rarely made blunders.
December 2nd, 20102:21 am
I hope there is not a riot during the game!
December 2nd, 20102:26 am
I do too. I hope Cleveland wins by at LEAST 20, 25, 30 pts or more. Lebron is another Kobe…in that..he’s another cry-baby.
Lebron will NEVER EVER be a winner bc he’ll never reach Jordan, Magic or even Bird status.
December 2nd, 20102:27 am
Maybe Furcaled. But a beating is a bit harsh.
December 2nd, 20102:30 am
Debatable. At least, unlike Kobe, James doesn’t play with the smirk. He also hasn’t been accused of rape – drum roll
December 2nd, 20102:35 am
Just a little humor!
December 2nd, 20102:36 am
I wish the Hawks had him, but he would never play for the Hawks.
December 2nd, 20102:38 am
Is anyone else feeling more comfortable with Wren at the helm? I don’t think free agent signings are his forte, but his ability to trade has been slicker than cat sh*t on linoleum.
Lebron wouldn’t fit the Hawks chemistry.
December 2nd, 20102:39 am
glad we settled that, ward.
December 2nd, 20102:40 am
Wren is up to some thing? I can smell it, and he will shock us agian.
December 2nd, 20102:42 am
D.J. I just wish we didn’t have to wait!
December 2nd, 20102:45 am
You must have quite a nose
December 2nd, 20102:48 am
I go by my hunches…….
December 2nd, 20102:56 am
D.J.:You have a good one, and nite every one. I’ll Keep my eyes, and ears open, and let you know if i hear any thing….”Go!!! Braves!!!.”
December 2nd, 20102:57 am
I don’t know Ward,
There’s just not much money left. If Greinke goes available, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Bravos in the mix; one way or another. It makes sense given this teams history. Still, he’s owed some coin. So……………
December 2nd, 20103:22 am
Just checked in before shutting down laptop, and I see Robert was on the blog tonight. Glad I was away. Talk about dispiriting discourse … that guy can make a person seek solace within 30 minutes.
December 2nd, 20104:28 am
All ya’ll Miami Heat haters know what ya’ll can do……….stick to talkin bout Braves baseball lol!
December 2nd, 20104:32 am
go braves , its time for some hot stove action, uggla and ????
December 2nd, 20106:14 am
Just before I go to sleep! Robert don’t even talk about Dale Murphy like that! Murphy is one of the greatest Braves ever, and is a Hall Of Famer.Should be no… if’s… ands… or… buts….Go back to your research, and stay there…………”Go!!! Braves!!!.”
December 2nd, 20106:44 am
“Wren is up to some thing”
I doubt anything big, ward. Just my opinion, but Uggla was pretty dang big and besides a CF, a MRP & bench bat I can’t think of any other position we need to fill. That CF position unfortunately goes to McLouth for sad reasons — money owed and past accomplishments. At least it will to start the season it appears.
The only “’shock” move we might see Wren make is acquiring a top notch BP arm through a trade. I definitely see us regaining Hinske. How can they not do everything possible to keep this guy after what he did for us? Maybe not give him multiple years, but up the 1 year dollars.
Almost forgot about KK. The money they save by dealing him could be stashed away for a in season trade in ‘11.
Who knows …. gotta get ready for work now. Damn it.
December 2nd, 20107:20 am
I like how Robert compared Bobby Cox to a cult
December 2nd, 20108:16 am
Hey Braveheart thanks for the A Tribe Called Quest link. Looking forward to it.
December 2nd, 20108:41 am
You think if the Yankees sign Jeter for the 5 year deal that they would be willing to trade away their young short stop they have. I remember earlier this offseason the Braves were interested in him.
December 2nd, 20108:42 am
This blog is old. Can’t you or Carroll muster up the energy to write another paragraph blog over 4 days DOB ???
Mark & Schultzie put new blogs up daily.
What about the “Hot Stove” ? It seems the Braves have refried beans instead hot chili cooking ?
December 2nd, 20108:43 am
Robert got me searching Enos Slaughter’s stats. What I found interesting was the trade of Slaughter to the Yankees, who played 143 games in 1953, batting .291.
The Cards secured waivers from every NL team.
How some of the teams could waive the old warhorse, even at his age, was a mystery. His salary, probably around $28,000, couldn’t have been enough to scare off many.
Branch Rickey scoffed at the suggestion that the National League moguls might have gotten together to permit Slaughter waived out of the circuit. – April 12, 1954,The Milwaukee Sentinel
Meanwhile, amateur Billy Joe Patton choked. Hogan and Snead will have an 18-hole playoff at the Masters on Monday.
Jeter doesn’t have 5 good years left. He might have two left. You actually think the Yankees would trade Jeter’s replacement ? Wow !
December 2nd, 20108:46 am
Ward, you must have went it behind Wren after he left the restroom ???
December 2nd, 20108:47 am
Murphy quit with 398 homeruns. He should have got two more to have 400. He came up a little shot in benchmark homeruns so he comes up a lil short in balloting as well…
December 2nd, 20108:50 am
Eduardo Nunez was the guys name. Had to look it up
Nova Scotia Steve
December 2nd, 20109:18 am
-25 in Yukon this morning folks.
It’s day’s like these I miss baseball….and whiskey is the of the few things that will keep you warm….
P-Town Brave ©
December 2nd, 20109:33 am
No harm done…
Just a friendly reminder that not all is bad with video games…
And in actuality I was more displeased with the statement Crazy made…
Oh, and the soccer reference…I couldn’t agree more!
December 2nd, 20109:34 am
Murph won two straight MVP Awards and (I believe) lead all of MLB in HR for the decade of the 80’s. He also hit with little protection in the lineup except for when Chambliss was there.
That ten year stretch should be enough, but never will be in the era of Sabremetrics.
December 2nd, 20109:37 am
Robert gets switches and ashes
December 2nd, 20109:40 am
Every once in awhile the old blog seems to slow down. Perhaps everyone understands the big action starts after the tender deadline tonight and really heats up next week with the owners. Great not to see another negative diatribe against AGon’s defense when the guy’s stats were great except for a couple of weeks when he was sick, or even another back and forth between Robert and DOB. So, in the interest of spicing things up a bit, and truly wondering what this guy would think about the Braves, here is the archive of Julian Assange’s blog– my favorites “Natalyia” 6/16/07, “Zola” 9/04/06, “The History of Warfare” 6/08/06. Meanwhile, why not a “Free Bradley Manning” campaign?– http://web.archive.org/web/20071020051936/http://iq.org/
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