Yeah the rivalry is not what it once was since 4 left but that’s okay because I’m a big fan of Rodgers and know he won’t be throwing costly picks when it matters the most. I’ve been hearing the Niners RT isn’t that good which could be a big problem for you guys if true with Clay “The Beast” Matthews on the other side. Should be a good game. I just hope your miracle waits until after this week. I really don’t want the Bears to win the division.
I understand giving McLouth a chance, but if he fails miserably (again), I hope that Fredi does not pull a Cox and leave him in the lineup until the middle of June while he’s batting .170. If McLouth cannot get his swing back, Matt Young seems like a good option for CF, if his AAA stats are any indication.
Just about the entire O-Line is hurt right now…their best tackle is out with a broken leg, their center has a jaw injury, they are on their back-up right tackle because their starter moved to center, and they start 2 rookies. Good times! By the way, I like Rodgers too, and of course I like my boy Clay Mathews!
I participated in a psychological study in college about video game violence. The researcher put in in a room with a computed with a cheap, simple, shoot the Nazi’s game. The more quickly you shot them the more congratulatory the game became. So naturally I shot as many as I could to get the most reward. Then afterwards they gave me a questionnaire about my feelings and whether or not i became “more violent” as the game went on. The evidence was that (a) I got better. Which should happen at any game after a few reps. and (b) that I said yes, I was trying to shoot the Nazi.
Basically my point is that these “studies” are sometimes not relating a casual connection even if it appears blatantly obvious that there is one. (Think RBI and player value)
They are just reaching the conclusions that they started with in the beginning.
In contract Harvard Medical Researchers Laurence Kutner and Cheryl Olsen started with a clean slate and reached a fundamentally different conclusion. Read their book, Grand Theft Childhood
Basically the point is not to believe what you hear on th news about video games and violence because its either 1 not supported by facts or 2 just playing on conclusions you think are already true.
I really wish they would add the second year to the Hinske offer (and slightly discount each year since it would be a two year deal). Worst case he stinks and they write off a little over $1MM in 2012. I know they aren’t in the business of taking risks, but come on now. Odds are’s going to earn his money. I’m surprised another team hasn’t jumped in.
I really wish Diaz could stay, but even if Hinske walks, $2.5MM is too much. Especially if Hinske is going for half that.
I would give Hinske a one year contract with a vesting option if he meets certain abs or goals. That way if he fails it doesn’t go through but if he continues to produce he will have a job. Don’t know if thats an option.
You’d think I’d be stress free…all my Xmas shopping is already done and even with a much lighter bank account, I don’t have to go out and brave the traffic and the lousy 24 days of Xmas shopping experience and that god awful xmas music.
its too bad that hinske is only going to make around 1.5… cus they couldnt even offer him an option tje buyout would cost just about the same as the 2nd yr. at that rate he would only be a year by year guy if a team doesnt want to risk signing him longer
Yeah both those guys are from your great state…thanks for giving the Packers two of our best players. We really appreciate it. I wish I could say sorry that your GM picked Alex Smith over Rodgers but that would mean he wouldn’t be a Packer which we fans are grateful for.
If Hinske falls through I hope they pursue Xavier Nady.
On another note Bowman wrote something yesterday saying the braves will be going to winter meetings looking for a RP and a 4th OF. I thought the 4th OF was going to be filled internally? Or have we changed our mind. Maybe he wants a more productive 4th OF that can start regularly if need be?
I like the P’Cola Brave idea of a vesting option. I could live with the Nady idea too if $1MM or so. Rather have Hinske but Nady would have more potential upside if he could come back reasonably strong.
December 1st, 2010
5:05 pm
Why don’t we pick up… wait his name escapes me… you guys can help me here. You know, that homerun, run producing idol in the ASA? I mean what’s the deference between softball and baseball anyways.
To which do you defer AT?
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:12 pm
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2010
5:05 pm
Why don’t we pick up… wait his name escapes me… you guys can help me here. You know, that homerun, run producing idol in the ASA? I mean what’s the deference between softball and baseball anyways.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2010
5:17 pm
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:12 pm
I’m not quite sure but I remember it being the running joke during ST when someone came on the blog and said they knew this guy.
nolie:
Is deferencing good or bad?
That’s what I’ve been trying to find out.
To which do you defer AT?
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:19 pm
Sorry AT, I wasn’t deferencing the guy.
When you have the best bench in baseball you keep it until it proves it isn’t.
Eric Hinske is ABSOLUTELY worth the 2 years. He bought it with the homer in the playoffs.
What was the sense of bringing him to Atlanta in the first place if you weren’t going to see this through? Great for the clubhouse…. great in the clutch…. a winner plain and simple.
WREN: There’s times to be shrewd but this is not one of them.
Didn’t mean to get you going with my comments on video games. The old Wayne musta snuck out. You know I am Da Sensitve guy who would never hurt anybody’s feelings.
(but I like to tease folks, kinda like my comments months ago about soccer being a nice activity……..just pushing buttons!)
Folks might have said the same thing about Norton after the ‘08 season. I am not sure you want to tie up a lefty pinch hitter and part-time OFer for over a year. Not the same as the Infante and Ross signings.
I dont think it is necesary to go two years for a bench player all the time. You do realize its only between us and the Brewers? If he was such a premium players how come no-one else has stepped up? Or the Brewers increased their offer yet? We will only end up bidding against ourselves. He wants to wait and see and so will we.
Also When you have the best bench in baseball you keep it until it proves it isn’t.
A 1 yr deal gives us the chance to do this. If he sucks next year, we arent forced to hold on to him and look stupid.
OK….I know I’m not a stats blogger or anything like that but……why is it that if a player has a super year, much above his average, everyone expects him to go back to average the next year (ala Omar), BUT if a player has a REALLY bad year, everyone expects him to continue that way (ala Nate)? Just asking……..I’m not for or against either guy……
I think it is because some folks are just prone to being negative? Doubters?
Personally, I assume that there was a reason a guy had an off year, and if that reason is no longer valid (not sure what the reason is w/ McLouth) then I fully expect him to return to his mean.
As for Chipper, he is getting older and has a knee surgery to come back from. New variables. Will he come back to his pre-2010 numbers? Probably not. Will he come back to his summer of 2010 numbers? That is the hope.
I agree that I want Hinske back, but if you remember his summer numbers, why would you assume he will hit like he did the first two months of the season?
And he gave us defense? Sure he did, and I still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!
Let’s just say he can play left field and first base if needed.
OK…..I accept your point about people being negative and doubters. I, personally, cringed when Nate came up to bat, but I did know he’d done much better in the past and always HOPED he’d do “OK”. As far as Chipper, I know he’s given his all for this team over the years and will HOPE that he continues to do well.
Cliches or not, do you think that ANY major league player wants to continue sucking? I don’t. I think they’re embarassed and humiliated when they don’t do what’s “expected” of them.
McLouth had vision issues at the end of 2009. He may have had difficulty early in 2010 because of that. Then the concussion. That would certainly account for some of his poor season.
DS1… After watching Loaf Anderson, Hinske was an improvement… and he played decently at 1B as well — made a few nice picks over there.
But he’s a 10-20 homer guy off the bench and his career body of work shows he’s CONSISTENT with those numbers. Give him 2 years, he’s 35 at the end and see where it stands. But he’s shown no signs of dropping off at all. He just might not be a 300 AB guy like last year. Give him 100 or so and let him do his damage.
If he’s on the bench consistently the next 2 years where will the wear and tear come from?
If someone gets hurt would you be THAT upset if he was in the lineup? No, because he can hit the ball out of the park.
Hinske just MIGHT decide to play close to home, and if that is the case, we just lost our version of Matt Stairs — the fear guy off the bench. The guy with the intangibles.
I bet we could list a dozen guys who could fill a similar slot as Hinske for next year. Realistically, with a lefty hitting first baseman, we might actually prefer our lefty off the bench to play other positions besides first and left.
i agree i wouldnt have a problem with 2 years with him but if you look at a guy like david ross who got a longer deal eventually i think hinske could end up with the braves longer than 2 more years if he just signs this contract with the braves
But that was kinda my point when I started this. If a player excels for one season, everyone expects him to “slip” back, but if a player “slips” one season, why not expect him to go back to what he was? You know HE must want that……or at least to get CLOSE to his highest season. HE knows he can do it, has done it…..so why wouldn’t he expect to be able to go back there?
yes it did… there was a team out there willing to give him 10 and it happened it was his current team. the market he was in said he is worth it so they paid him
his worth was defined by the rockies and he was lucky enough to be given the deal
I like how so many people here suggest getting this guy and that and “calling it a day,” or signing this one and trading for that one and “let’s play ball.”
When the truth is, if the Braves acquired a solid reliever and another bench player or two tomorrow, by the weekend at least half the commenters on this blog — including many of those same people — would be saying Wren still needs this player and that one and can’t stop when he’s this close to having a championship team.
Just happened that the only one in the market was colorado and they spent the money as they thought was a good price and value. his market value was exactly what he got… as is every contract signed by every player!
The Rockies extended Tulo because they felt his impact on the team was worth the extension through ‘20.
The Braves must determine if they feel that Hinske’s impact on the team is worth ‘11 AND ‘12. Don’t see anything in his body of work at this point that shows dropoff. In addition, our bench last year was so above average that why would you even take a chance in breaking it up? Doesn’t make sense unless it’s all payroll limited (which again, is possible).
Unless someone comes out of nowhere (which I guess is possible) if Hinske walks the impact of the bench will be significantly lower than it was this past season. Guys like Hinske and Conrad WON GAMES for us last year.
Has anyone figured our record last season without those two coming through in the clutch? I know we’re not in the postseason for sure. Probably 81-83 wins.
I’d offer Hinske 2 years just on the off chance of being able to see him run the bases on a triple. That would be well worth someone else’s money to me.
AND…Whoever paid Cam to go to Auburn must’ve recently made a hefty donation to the NCAA as well. One of the oddest things I’ve ever seen.
Nick dont expect any type of leak from the brave camp after what happened 2 years ago when everything they were trying to do got out and deal after deal fell through
I thought for sure that payroll would rise this offseason with the big jump in attendance. It seems I was wrong. In fact, it seems payroll has gone DOWN! Somebody is pocketing the money.
Nick, this may be hard for you to believe, but most pro sports teams, including the Braves, don’t actually make money. So the only thing greater attendance means is that Liberty Media didn’t loose as much as they did last year. Now, that sometimes means an owner will increase payroll, but not always. (Not sure what you are basing the notion that payroll went down, but I never know what your thought process is, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised)
The Braves had 2,510,119 people attend games last year. let’s say 75% of those people were adults. If every one of those adults purchased a ridiculous $7 beer, that’s $13,178,124.27 in beer sales…$13 million!
I know that not every adult there has a beer, but I also know that some guys have way more than one overpriced beer, so it evens out.
i tend to pull the weight of those schlubs who cant keep the beer sales up… but for reasons unknown i never seem to complain about pulling the dead weight!
Still not sure why people have beef against Liberty…they’re forking over $85-$90 million a year, which is nothing to complain about – especially considering our attendance is middle-of-the-road
Theres really no good 4th OF options that can play CF. THe only way I think the Braves get a 4th OF is if they are willing to slide Heyward to CF on occasion.
i tend to pull the weight of those schlubs who cant keep the beer sales up… but for reasons unknown i never seem to complain about pulling the dead weight!
cabravesfan as long as putz gets checked out by the braves medical staff first. they cant follow the lead of the mets who dont need to know the health of the players they trad for or sign hahaha =)
And it depends on what he’s looking for…he made $3 million last year, which of course was a 50% pay cut from his year with the Mets, but I doubt he’d take less then that (not that I’m not willing to pay $3 million, but as you pointed out, his health is kinda a question)
I still don’t get how Cecil secretly shops Cam, picks Auburn when they pay the most, orders Cam to go to Auburn, and Cam has no idea of what’s going on, and doesn’t wonder why his dad suddenly got $180,000.
Adding a reliever and a PH is a top priority. Ross is already signed and I figure at least two other guys will come from within the org. to round out the bench. That leaves about two spots to find a PH and whatever else.
AND…Whoever paid Cam to go to Auburn must’ve recently made a hefty donation to the NCAA as well. One of the oddest things I’ve ever seen.
Who knows whether the Newton family actually ever received that money that Papa Newton was asking for but one things for sure, someone is making big money off that kid and its fair to say if he keeps playing the way he is, next time Papa Newton won’t have to make it discreet. The money will be there.
Well anyway, here’s to a good SEC Championship Saturday with the now eligible Cam Newton at quarterback for Auburn.
December 1st, 2010
7:07 pm
I like how so many people here suggest getting this guy and that and “calling it a day,” or signing this one and trading for that one and “let’s play ball.”
When the truth is, if the Braves acquired a solid reliever and another bench player or two tomorrow, by the weekend at least half the commenters on this blog — including many of those same people — would be saying Wren still needs this player and that one and can’t stop when he’s this close to having a championship team.
This blog is like a drug. Once hooked there’s just no going back. And it all on you DAVID for being so good, and setting the barbs into so many.
4,361 comments Add your comment
P-Town Brave ©
December 1st, 2010
5:20 pm
Bunko?
Um…what is that exactly?
P-Town Brave ©
December 1st, 2010
5:22 pm
But guess what….
I do enjoy a board game every now and then…
And a drink…
According to some here and their blanket statements, that would make me both a nerd and an alcoholic…
Oh, and according to the deer conversation we had here right before Thanksgiving and my thoughts on them, it would also make me a gun activist…
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:25 pm
P-Town Brave:
Illegal con-artist activity regulated by the Bunco Squad. We know you P-Town……….we got the goods on ya’, now fess up.
Murph
December 1st, 2010
5:26 pm
ward’s harmless
That’s what bostonbravo thought, too. Remember him? Most people don’t… or those that do try not to.
BravePack
December 1st, 2010
5:26 pm
cabravesfan
Yeah the rivalry is not what it once was since 4 left but that’s okay because I’m a big fan of Rodgers and know he won’t be throwing costly picks when it matters the most. I’ve been hearing the Niners RT isn’t that good which could be a big problem for you guys if true with Clay “The Beast” Matthews on the other side. Should be a good game. I just hope your miracle waits until after this week. I really don’t want the Bears to win the division.
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:27 pm
P-Town Brave ©
December 1st, 2010
5:22 pm
But guess what….
I do enjoy a board game every now and then…
And a drink…
According to some here and their blanket statements, that would make me both a nerd and an alcoholic…
Your admission of guilt is complete. You’re under arrest. “Come quietly or there will be…………..trouble” (ROBO-COP).
Francis
December 1st, 2010
5:29 pm
I understand giving McLouth a chance, but if he fails miserably (again), I hope that Fredi does not pull a Cox and leave him in the lineup until the middle of June while he’s batting .170. If McLouth cannot get his swing back, Matt Young seems like a good option for CF, if his AAA stats are any indication.
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
5:31 pm
BravePack-
Just about the entire O-Line is hurt right now…their best tackle is out with a broken leg, their center has a jaw injury, they are on their back-up right tackle because their starter moved to center, and they start 2 rookies. Good times! By the way, I like Rodgers too, and of course I like my boy Clay Mathews!
Mozelle's
December 1st, 2010
5:32 pm
I participated in a psychological study in college about video game violence. The researcher put in in a room with a computed with a cheap, simple, shoot the Nazi’s game. The more quickly you shot them the more congratulatory the game became. So naturally I shot as many as I could to get the most reward. Then afterwards they gave me a questionnaire about my feelings and whether or not i became “more violent” as the game went on. The evidence was that (a) I got better. Which should happen at any game after a few reps. and (b) that I said yes, I was trying to shoot the Nazi.
Basically my point is that these “studies” are sometimes not relating a casual connection even if it appears blatantly obvious that there is one. (Think RBI and player value)
They are just reaching the conclusions that they started with in the beginning.
In contract Harvard Medical Researchers Laurence Kutner and Cheryl Olsen started with a clean slate and reached a fundamentally different conclusion. Read their book, Grand Theft Childhood
Basically the point is not to believe what you hear on th news about video games and violence because its either 1 not supported by facts or 2 just playing on conclusions you think are already true.
Its a myth and its being debunked.
nolie
December 1st, 2010
5:32 pm
is deferencing good or bad??
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
5:34 pm
hello everyone!
Vol_in_Ohio
December 1st, 2010
5:34 pm
I really wish they would add the second year to the Hinske offer (and slightly discount each year since it would be a two year deal). Worst case he stinks and they write off a little over $1MM in 2012. I know they aren’t in the business of taking risks, but come on now. Odds are’s going to earn his money. I’m surprised another team hasn’t jumped in.
I really wish Diaz could stay, but even if Hinske walks, $2.5MM is too much. Especially if Hinske is going for half that.
Vol_in_Ohio
December 1st, 2010
5:36 pm
And the Marlins seem pretty stupid. Maybe they’ll take KK for Omar Infante and Mike Dunn.
Murph
December 1st, 2010
5:36 pm
richbrave is a drunk nerd.
nolie
December 1st, 2010
5:37 pm
I don’t much care if they sign Hinske or not, his last 4 months were mediocre at best. I certainly wouldn’t give him two years
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
5:38 pm
I would give Hinske a one year contract with a vesting option if he meets certain abs or goals. That way if he fails it doesn’t go through but if he continues to produce he will have a job. Don’t know if thats an option.
P-Town Brave ©
December 1st, 2010
5:38 pm
Richbrave-
Thanks…I needed that laugh for the day…
You’d think I’d be stress free…all my Xmas shopping is already done and even with a much lighter bank account, I don’t have to go out and brave the traffic and the lousy 24 days of Xmas shopping experience and that god awful xmas music.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
5:39 pm
its too bad that hinske is only going to make around 1.5… cus they couldnt even offer him an option tje buyout would cost just about the same as the 2nd yr. at that rate he would only be a year by year guy if a team doesnt want to risk signing him longer
Snotboogie
December 1st, 2010
5:41 pm
and that god awful xmas music.
Now sing with me:
Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
P-Town Brave ©
December 1st, 2010
5:45 pm
^^ Snot
The only thing that comes to my mind is the Chinese guys singing that in “A Christmas Story”…
Deck the harrs with boughs if rorry
Fa ra ra ra ra, ra ra ra ra
BravePack
December 1st, 2010
5:45 pm
cabravesfan
Yeah both those guys are from your great state…thanks for giving the Packers two of our best players. We really appreciate it. I wish I could say sorry that your GM picked Alex Smith over Rodgers but that would mean he wouldn’t be a Packer which we fans are grateful for.
BosnianBaller
December 1st, 2010
5:48 pm
Been away from the blog for a while,but Hinske must be re-signed.
DOB are you gonna go watch that new movie True Grit when it comes out. Jeff Bridges and Matt Damon are in it. Looks like a bad ass movie
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2010
5:52 pm
DOB are you gonna go watch that new movie True Grit when it comes out
That sounds like a buddy action movie starring Brooks Conrad and Matt Diaz.
nolie
December 1st, 2010
5:54 pm
P’C you could base it on at bats or games, but not on statistical production goals. I likely still wouldn’t do it myself
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
5:57 pm
If Hinske falls through I hope they pursue Xavier Nady.
On another note Bowman wrote something yesterday saying the braves will be going to winter meetings looking for a RP and a 4th OF. I thought the 4th OF was going to be filled internally? Or have we changed our mind. Maybe he wants a more productive 4th OF that can start regularly if need be?
nolie
December 1st, 2010
5:59 pm
depending on who gets signed, they might end up with 5 OFers this year. It has happened B4 though not all that often
Vol_in_Ohio
December 1st, 2010
5:59 pm
I like the P’Cola Brave idea of a vesting option. I could live with the Nady idea too if $1MM or so. Rather have Hinske but Nady would have more potential upside if he could come back reasonably strong.
nolie
December 1st, 2010
6:04 pm
Hinske hit under 700 in August and Sept/Oct, and not much over 700 in June/July. I don’t see him as a needed sign
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2010
6:05 pm
I’d take Hinske even if he hit under .600
nolie
December 1st, 2010
6:06 pm
why? under 600 is absolutely terrible. next to worthless. nobody is worth that in the clubhouse I don’t care how gritty they are
nolie
December 1st, 2010
6:08 pm
let him hit 650 for a full season and see how quickly his aura becomes much less meaningful, in the locker room and here
Snotboogie
December 1st, 2010
6:08 pm
nolie – he means avg I think, sarcastically.
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
6:09 pm
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:12 pm
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2010
5:05 pm
Why don’t we pick up… wait his name escapes me… you guys can help me here. You know, that homerun, run producing idol in the ASA? I mean what’s the deference between softball and baseball anyways.
To which do you defer AT?
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:12 pm
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2010
5:05 pm
Why don’t we pick up… wait his name escapes me… you guys can help me here. You know, that homerun, run producing idol in the ASA? I mean what’s the deference between softball and baseball anyways.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2010
5:17 pm
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:12 pm
I’m not quite sure but I remember it being the running joke during ST when someone came on the blog and said they knew this guy.
nolie:
Is deferencing good or bad?
That’s what I’ve been trying to find out.
To which do you defer AT?
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
5:19 pm
Sorry AT, I wasn’t deferencing the guy.
nolie
December 1st, 2010
6:09 pm
SB, he might be playing with that but he knows what I mean. He might actually believe that since he is onea them emo-type dudes
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
6:11 pm
nolie:
Got you query and my response in the wrong sequence. Sorry, but I defer to you my man.
Snotboogie
December 1st, 2010
6:13 pm
Now, jeffrey has to respond to that!
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
6:14 pm
Murph
December 1st, 2010
5:36 pm
richbrave is a drunk nerd.
Aw-w-w, MURPH, you noticed. How sweet!
nolie
December 1st, 2010
6:14 pm
I’m sure it will be funny SB, guy is a real card
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
6:16 pm
BravePack-
Clay Mathews is also from my alma mater
He was fun to watch in college
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2010
6:19 pm
Happy birthday to a funny bloke, Peter Moylan, who turns 32 tomorrow, which is already today where he is (Australia).
The A Bomb
December 1st, 2010
6:26 pm
When you have the best bench in baseball you keep it until it proves it isn’t.
Eric Hinske is ABSOLUTELY worth the 2 years. He bought it with the homer in the playoffs.
What was the sense of bringing him to Atlanta in the first place if you weren’t going to see this through? Great for the clubhouse…. great in the clutch…. a winner plain and simple.
WREN: There’s times to be shrewd but this is not one of them.
DS1
December 1st, 2010
6:27 pm
P-town
Didn’t mean to get you going with my comments on video games. The old Wayne musta snuck out. You know I am Da Sensitve guy who would never hurt anybody’s feelings.
(but I like to tease folks, kinda like my comments months ago about soccer being a nice activity……..just pushing buttons!)
Snotboogie
December 1st, 2010
6:27 pm
Eric Hinske is ABSOLUTELY worth the 2 years. He bought it with the homer in the playoffs.
How about Ankiel then?
The A Bomb
December 1st, 2010
6:29 pm
Snotboogie…. body of work. Difference between 1-2 years.
DS1
December 1st, 2010
6:30 pm
A-Bomb
Folks might have said the same thing about Norton after the ‘08 season. I am not sure you want to tie up a lefty pinch hitter and part-time OFer for over a year. Not the same as the Infante and Ross signings.
1 year is enough.
Snotboogie
December 1st, 2010
6:33 pm
I dont think it is necesary to go two years for a bench player all the time. You do realize its only between us and the Brewers? If he was such a premium players how come no-one else has stepped up? Or the Brewers increased their offer yet? We will only end up bidding against ourselves. He wants to wait and see and so will we.
Also
When you have the best bench in baseball you keep it until it proves it isn’t.
A 1 yr deal gives us the chance to do this. If he sucks next year, we arent forced to hold on to him and look stupid.
Just Pat
December 1st, 2010
6:33 pm
OK….I know I’m not a stats blogger or anything like that but……why is it that if a player has a super year, much above his average, everyone expects him to go back to average the next year (ala Omar), BUT if a player has a REALLY bad year, everyone expects him to continue that way (ala Nate)? Just asking……..I’m not for or against either guy……
The A Bomb
December 1st, 2010
6:39 pm
Norton never gave you defense. 2008 was not a winning season. Norton did not contribute to a winning season. He put up stats with a lousy team.
Hinske put up clutch stats with a playoff team and filled in with some defense as well.
Hinske and postseason have become synonymous. Matt Stairs got $1.625 million in ‘08 and ‘09 for similar power numbers to Hinske…
You may try to replace Hinske’s numbers, but you won’t replace his intangibles.
DS1
December 1st, 2010
6:43 pm
Just Pat
I think it is because some folks are just prone to being negative? Doubters?
Personally, I assume that there was a reason a guy had an off year, and if that reason is no longer valid (not sure what the reason is w/ McLouth) then I fully expect him to return to his mean.
As for Chipper, he is getting older and has a knee surgery to come back from. New variables. Will he come back to his pre-2010 numbers? Probably not. Will he come back to his summer of 2010 numbers? That is the hope.
DS1
December 1st, 2010
6:46 pm
A-Bomb
I agree that I want Hinske back, but if you remember his summer numbers, why would you assume he will hit like he did the first two months of the season?
And he gave us defense? Sure he did, and I still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!
Let’s just say he can play left field and first base if needed.
Abwright
December 1st, 2010
6:46 pm
Just Pat … Baseball is difficult. It’s much easier to continue sucking than it is to continue playing over your head.
Don’t think I can get any more cliches into that sentence.
Just Pat
December 1st, 2010
6:49 pm
DS1
OK…..I accept your point about people being negative and doubters. I, personally, cringed when Nate came up to bat, but I did know he’d done much better in the past and always HOPED he’d do “OK”. As far as Chipper, I know he’s given his all for this team over the years and will HOPE that he continues to do well.
Just Pat
December 1st, 2010
6:52 pm
Abwright
Cliches or not, do you think that ANY major league player wants to continue sucking? I don’t. I think they’re embarassed and humiliated when they don’t do what’s “expected” of them.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
6:53 pm
Eric Hinske is ABSOLUTELY worth the 2 years. He bought it with the homer in the playoffs
if no one is offering him 2 years that means he is not worth 2 years. the market sets itself in baseball… market says hinske is a 1 yr guy
Abwright
December 1st, 2010
6:54 pm
McLouth had vision issues at the end of 2009. He may have had difficulty early in 2010 because of that. Then the concussion. That would certainly account for some of his poor season.
The A Bomb
December 1st, 2010
6:55 pm
DS1… After watching Loaf Anderson, Hinske was an improvement… and he played decently at 1B as well — made a few nice picks over there.
But he’s a 10-20 homer guy off the bench and his career body of work shows he’s CONSISTENT with those numbers. Give him 2 years, he’s 35 at the end and see where it stands. But he’s shown no signs of dropping off at all. He just might not be a 300 AB guy like last year. Give him 100 or so and let him do his damage.
If he’s on the bench consistently the next 2 years where will the wear and tear come from?
If someone gets hurt would you be THAT upset if he was in the lineup? No, because he can hit the ball out of the park.
Hinske just MIGHT decide to play close to home, and if that is the case, we just lost our version of Matt Stairs — the fear guy off the bench. The guy with the intangibles.
DS1
December 1st, 2010
6:56 pm
I bet we could list a dozen guys who could fill a similar slot as Hinske for next year. Realistically, with a lefty hitting first baseman, we might actually prefer our lefty off the bench to play other positions besides first and left.
But I do like Hinske.
Gotta get back on the road…….later.
Abwright
December 1st, 2010
6:57 pm
Just Pat … I don’t think players intend to perform poorly. It’s just not that easy to return to the highest level of performance when you slip.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:00 pm
i agree i wouldnt have a problem with 2 years with him but if you look at a guy like david ross who got a longer deal eventually i think hinske could end up with the braves longer than 2 more years if he just signs this contract with the braves
The A Bomb
December 1st, 2010
7:01 pm
Eric from Albany —
Market didn’t dictate Tulowitzki either.
Sometimes proven winners are key to a club’s success.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2010
7:02 pm
BosnianBaller: Coen Bros. directing, Jeff Bridges starring as Rooster Cogburn … of course I’ll be there.
Murph
December 1st, 2010
7:02 pm
Hinske shminske. Nate shmate.
Gimme Matt Young playing like he is in Winter ball, Mather producing anywhere near his potential, and a solid veteran reliever and call it a day.
Just Pat
December 1st, 2010
7:03 pm
Abwright
But that was kinda my point when I started this. If a player excels for one season, everyone expects him to “slip” back, but if a player “slips” one season, why not expect him to go back to what he was? You know HE must want that……or at least to get CLOSE to his highest season. HE knows he can do it, has done it…..so why wouldn’t he expect to be able to go back there?
Just Pat
December 1st, 2010
7:03 pm
Enter your comments here
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:05 pm
Market didn’t dictate Tulowitzki either.
yes it did… there was a team out there willing to give him 10 and it happened it was his current team. the market he was in said he is worth it so they paid him
his worth was defined by the rockies and he was lucky enough to be given the deal
Just Pat
December 1st, 2010
7:06 pm
Sorry about the previous post that didn’t happen! Anyway, hubby is starting to pace…..think he’s ready to go home. Y’all take care and play nice!
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2010
7:07 pm
I like how so many people here suggest getting this guy and that and “calling it a day,” or signing this one and trading for that one and “let’s play ball.”
When the truth is, if the Braves acquired a solid reliever and another bench player or two tomorrow, by the weekend at least half the commenters on this blog — including many of those same people — would be saying Wren still needs this player and that one and can’t stop when he’s this close to having a championship team.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:08 pm
Market didn’t dictate Tulowitzki either
Just happened that the only one in the market was colorado and they spent the money as they thought was a good price and value. his market value was exactly what he got… as is every contract signed by every player!
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
7:08 pm
A name that hasn’t been mentioned here much but if the Hinske deal doesn’t happen. What about Marcus Thames.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:10 pm
Great Post @ 7:07 DOB!
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
7:11 pm
Didn’t realize that Thames plays 1B as well. Could be a good fit. Played for under a mil last year. RH.
The A Bomb
December 1st, 2010
7:12 pm
Eric –
The Rockies extended Tulo because they felt his impact on the team was worth the extension through ‘20.
The Braves must determine if they feel that Hinske’s impact on the team is worth ‘11 AND ‘12. Don’t see anything in his body of work at this point that shows dropoff. In addition, our bench last year was so above average that why would you even take a chance in breaking it up? Doesn’t make sense unless it’s all payroll limited (which again, is possible).
Unless someone comes out of nowhere (which I guess is possible) if Hinske walks the impact of the bench will be significantly lower than it was this past season. Guys like Hinske and Conrad WON GAMES for us last year.
Has anyone figured our record last season without those two coming through in the clutch? I know we’re not in the postseason for sure. Probably 81-83 wins.
Nick
December 1st, 2010
7:12 pm
I haven’t seen the Braves mentioned at all in hot stove news. Uggla can’t be it, right?
Danga
December 1st, 2010
7:12 pm
I’d offer Hinske 2 years just on the off chance of being able to see him run the bases on a triple. That would be well worth someone else’s money to me.
AND…Whoever paid Cam to go to Auburn must’ve recently made a hefty donation to the NCAA as well. One of the oddest things I’ve ever seen.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:15 pm
Nick dont expect any type of leak from the brave camp after what happened 2 years ago when everything they were trying to do got out and deal after deal fell through
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
7:16 pm
Nick, don’t expect any more major moves…
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:16 pm
u may hear bits but expect most of what the braves do to be a bit of a suprise and seemingly out of the blue
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:17 pm
cabravesfan… agreed dont expect major uggla moves but i think there is payroll and roster spots to fill… but nothing huge i agree
Nick
December 1st, 2010
7:18 pm
I thought for sure that payroll would rise this offseason with the big jump in attendance. It seems I was wrong. In fact, it seems payroll has gone DOWN! Somebody is pocketing the money.
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
7:18 pm
Eric-
Yeah, as has been talked about many times, I’d look for outfield help and a reliever of some type
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:19 pm
never expect payroll to go up! not with liberty at the helm!
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:20 pm
cabravesfan i dont feel like going back in the blog what do u think about putz? would he be someone you would be into?
Danga
December 1st, 2010
7:21 pm
MLB teams are not public charities.
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
7:21 pm
Nick, this may be hard for you to believe, but most pro sports teams, including the Braves, don’t actually make money. So the only thing greater attendance means is that Liberty Media didn’t loose as much as they did last year. Now, that sometimes means an owner will increase payroll, but not always. (Not sure what you are basing the notion that payroll went down, but I never know what your thought process is, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised)
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2010
7:23 pm
The Braves had 2,510,119 people attend games last year. let’s say 75% of those people were adults. If every one of those adults purchased a ridiculous $7 beer, that’s $13,178,124.27 in beer sales…$13 million!
I know that not every adult there has a beer, but I also know that some guys have way more than one overpriced beer, so it evens out.
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
7:24 pm
Eric-
Probably not the worst choice out there, but I’m not totally sold on Putz
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2010
7:25 pm
Charles Bronson fans and others can agree, this is funny: http://r.FunnyOrDie.com/bwsho
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:26 pm
I know that not every adult there has a beer, but I also know that some guys have way more than one overpriced beer, so it evens out.
i tend to pull the weight of those schlubs who cant keep the beer sales up… but for reasons unknown i never seem to complain about pulling the dead weight!
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2010
7:26 pm
Still not sure why people have beef against Liberty…they’re forking over $85-$90 million a year, which is nothing to complain about – especially considering our attendance is middle-of-the-road
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
7:27 pm
Theres really no good 4th OF options that can play CF. THe only way I think the Braves get a 4th OF is if they are willing to slide Heyward to CF on occasion.
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2010
7:27 pm
i tend to pull the weight of those schlubs who cant keep the beer sales up… but for reasons unknown i never seem to complain about pulling the dead weight!
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 1st, 2010
7:27 pm
cabravesfan as long as putz gets checked out by the braves medical staff first. they cant follow the lead of the mets who dont need to know the health of the players they trad for or sign hahaha =)
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
7:28 pm
Otherwise whoever the OF option is needs to be able to play 1B as well.
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2010
7:31 pm
Eric-
And it depends on what he’s looking for…he made $3 million last year, which of course was a 50% pay cut from his year with the Mets, but I doubt he’d take less then that (not that I’m not willing to pay $3 million, but as you pointed out, his health is kinda a question)
Couch Tater
December 1st, 2010
7:32 pm
So NCAA’s saying that parents can shop their kids, long as they don’t tell ‘em? Wow. And if dad gets paid, what, just don’t tell the kid?
The Santa clause. The kids will understand the tradition, when they’re older and out of college.
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2010
7:35 pm
I still don’t get how Cecil secretly shops Cam, picks Auburn when they pay the most, orders Cam to go to Auburn, and Cam has no idea of what’s going on, and doesn’t wonder why his dad suddenly got $180,000.
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2010
7:38 pm
Adding a reliever and a PH is a top priority. Ross is already signed and I figure at least two other guys will come from within the org. to round out the bench. That leaves about two spots to find a PH and whatever else.
Danga
December 1st, 2010
7:41 pm
Seriously Jeff D…Admission standards at Auburn must be pretty low these days.
Jake W.
December 1st, 2010
7:41 pm
AND…Whoever paid Cam to go to Auburn must’ve recently made a hefty donation to the NCAA as well. One of the oddest things I’ve ever seen.
Who knows whether the Newton family actually ever received that money that Papa Newton was asking for but one things for sure, someone is making big money off that kid and its fair to say if he keeps playing the way he is, next time Papa Newton won’t have to make it discreet. The money will be there.
Well anyway, here’s to a good SEC Championship Saturday with the now eligible Cam Newton at quarterback for Auburn.
richbrave
December 1st, 2010
7:50 pm
David O’Brien
December 1st, 2010
7:07 pm
I like how so many people here suggest getting this guy and that and “calling it a day,” or signing this one and trading for that one and “let’s play ball.”
When the truth is, if the Braves acquired a solid reliever and another bench player or two tomorrow, by the weekend at least half the commenters on this blog — including many of those same people — would be saying Wren still needs this player and that one and can’t stop when he’s this close to having a championship team.
This blog is like a drug. Once hooked there’s just no going back. And it all on you DAVID for being so good, and setting the barbs into so many.