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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,373 comments Add your comment
Owl Hunter
November 29th, 2010
2:32 pm
DOB
Some people can’t grasp that baseball goes deeper than fantasy numbers.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
Well crap. I just posted 3 classic David Allan Coe Youtube links for you to try, DOB, but they’re not showing up here.
I like what I hear so far out of Whitey Morgan, though. Thanks for posting those, DOB.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
2:37 pm
And there they are…naturally.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
2:41 pm
Murph: I saw Restrepo. Powerful documentary. I’d put it in my top 10 movies of the year.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
2:42 pm
It is slightly ironic that we traded Escobar for a guy who was far more flamboyant than Escobar ever was. Interesting to see the Braves never curbed A-Gon’s antics.
So the Braves felt they need to trade a guy because of his attitude, and that’s fine, if they really thought they had to…but it seems like there was always a strong hatred of Escobar on Bobby Cox’s part. That had to play a strong part in Esco being traded.
I just wonder how different Escobar would be if we still kept him and he was managed by someone who could give him a fresh start and spoke his language as well.
Because from a numbers standpoint I’d much rather have a young and developing Escobar than A-Gon whose numbers were clearly inflated in Toronto and last year in general.
Lee in S GA
November 29th, 2010
2:43 pm
I always thought Johnny Paycheck was not given enough credit in the country musice industry back in his day. His personal life troubles (jail time if I remmeber right) probably played a big role in that though.
McFann O O
November 29th, 2010
2:43 pm
Travis Mac should be a lot more comfortable in his new #5 spot
Yes—his new old number 5 spot!
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2010
2:46 pm
DOB: Haven’t seen the recently released third movie
Saw the last one, the “Hornets Nest”. I disagree with the other posters review. I rather enjoyed it. I think it wrapped up everything nicely and was quite fascinating and entertaining. I think the first one caught my attention the most as it had the unique appeal going for it. (It was truly an amazing film as well).
Bigwheel
November 29th, 2010
2:48 pm
If wren could pull grienke for JJ, vizcaino, and lets say tyler pasorinsky (sp) and matt young. Frank should bacardi and cola…
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
2:50 pm
Lee in South GA,
Yeah, Paycheck shot a man and did some jail time. He had a lot of good overlooked stuff beyond Take this job and shove it.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
2:51 pm
Topics now have to be relevant for us to talk about them? Never stopped us before. I mean the Teixeira trade grumblins should be starting up within the hour.
Ha! The Escobar trade and the Teixeira trade will probably be making blog fodder until cockroaches rule the earth. The loudest voices, as usual, will be from the people most wrong about both, LOL.
Relevance? Bubba, please.
MaconBraves (RIP)
November 29th, 2010
2:54 pm
Because from a numbers standpoint I’d much rather have a young and developing Escobar than A-Gon whose numbers were clearly inflated in Toronto and last year in general.
Escobar is 28 years old, a bit past “developing” age isn’t it? He should be entering his prime right now, instead, the guy had a .696 OPS with the same team that “inflated” Gonzalez’s numbers last year (his OPS was .796 with Toronto).
And the language thing is BS. What about Chino and Eddie Perez speaking fluent spanish? What about Martin Prado and Omar Infante? They speak spanish. Escobar was spoken to OVER AND OVER again about how his childish behavior wasn’t the way things are done in the Braves organization. At 27 years old, he still showed NO sign of maturing. So, to the enormous relief of at least 95% of the Braves clubhouse, he was finally traded.
TennesseePaul
November 29th, 2010
2:56 pm
I should add that “The Hornets Nest” was not like the previous two where some mystery is being slowly uncovered. It picks up right where the second one ended, right where it ended, and proceeds to show the powers that be covering up a mystery. Those two main characters had spent all that time unraveling everything and now, in the last one you had the race to completely undo it all, while the other parties were trying to tie it all back off. It was more like Rubicon than the action series that the first two were.
Bat Masterson
November 29th, 2010
2:57 pm
I read “The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo” last week and enjoyed it. I’m about a third of the way through TGTPW Fire now.
I watched ” The Road” the other night, wish I had read the book first, but think I will anyway. It seems someone on here mentioned it.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
2:57 pm
instead, the guy had a .696 OPS with the same team that “inflated” Gonzalez’s numbers last year
In fairness, Escobar did have the wrist problem in Toronto.
Not that most folks here are really interested in that.
jeffrey d
November 29th, 2010
3:03 pm
Plus, because he defected from Cuba, Yunel didn’t play in the minor leagues until he was 23
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:04 pm
Prado and Infante aren’t coaches. Eddie is in the bullpen. Chino is at the buffet with Bobby.
None of those guys are the manager though. I’d like to see what F-Gon could do with Escobar. It would have to be a heckuva lot better than whatever Bobby did.
A-Gon had 3 homers in Atlanta vs 8 homers in Toronto in about the same number of games and at bats. So he will end up with about 12 homers with Atlanta next year.
I doubt he hits that many next year. Escobar actually hit 10 hrs in 2008 and 14 in 2009 and had a better on base and average. And hit very well in the clutch.
Numbers-wise A-Gon vs Escobar isn’t even close. If you want to compare A-Gon’s career year vs Escobar’s worst year, then by all means.
If we are talking long term its a terrible move. If we are talking about Bobby’s feelings and his last horrah then its a clear trade.
RC
November 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
Let’s just make a trade for Jose Reyes. Word is that the Mets might make him available, and he gives us a legit leadoff option who can switch hit and has great speed.
Unless his OBP isn’t high enough
AdirondackDave
November 29th, 2010
3:08 pm
Waiting with real interest on the Hinske decision. The guy is far from the end of his career. Seems like a 2-year deal is at the money being discussed on the ole blog is very reasonable, in fact, cheap for what he brings to the game. I’d say give him the second year, Frank.
CB
November 29th, 2010
3:08 pm
Escobar is 50 years old- the frosted tips made him look younger.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:08 pm
RC – Can we get Beltran too? Hey I like/hate both Reyes and Beltran. Always seem to kill the Braves one way or another.
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
Been out most of the day. I came back and found some new guy ranting about the Escobar trade, and getting the AG haters stirred up.WTF. I just don’t get it. Escobar had 4 HR, 35 RBI in 2010, was a major head case pain, and for all his tallent, he screwed up regularly. Ask Glaus what he thought about Escobar’s terrific talent. Players, coaches, and front office were universally, unanimously glad to see him go (by all reports). I just don’t get it. Give me one CREDIBLE reason you would still want him on the team. Even his stats stunk up the place in 2010. Talent doesn’t matter if you don’t use it. It seems clear to me that his presence deminished the team. I just don’t get why this is still an issue.
RC
November 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
MFin04,
Maybe we can trade Lowe for them and get the Mets to cover the difference in salaries.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
Hopefully the Braves don’t lose Hinske by being cheap. If he wants an extra 1/2 million dollars or million dollars pay him. He was great for us last year and there is no reason he won’t be this year. He apparently was a clubhouse leader as well, I know how much the Braves love that aspect of the stat sheet.
What could it really hurt “overpaying” him a little bit?
Bat Masterson
November 29th, 2010
3:13 pm
Scoots_
I promised you a review of “South of Broad”. Well I finally got around to reading it and I don’t recommend it. The first part was good, but the rest just did nothing for me. The writing was fine I just felt like Conrad had nothing to say and wrote a book anyway. It was a period piece, late sixties first, then picks up in ‘89. Young guy experiences a great trauma, falls apart, pulls himself back together and builds a nice live for himself. Later trouble finds him and his close friends, they try to solve it ……. drama ensues ……. sensitive guy, in love with the wrong women …. yada yada yada
I don’t think he will ever top ” The Great Santini.”
MaconBraves (RIP)
November 29th, 2010
3:16 pm
In fairness, Escobar did have the wrist problem in Toronto.
Fair enough, now what excuse does he have for his numbers in Atlanta last year?
Plus, because he defected from Cuba, Yunel didn’t play in the minor leagues until he was 23
So his time playing baseball in Cuba doesn’t count any towards developing into a more mature player? I know they are much more flamboyant in games in Cuba, but I doubt they would accept laziness and boneheaded plays much. Heck, Castro might just throw your butt in prison if you get his first baseman’s arm broken off!!
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
3:16 pm
Bat, thanks. I’ll cross that one off my Christmas list, LOL.
Conrad got bills to pay, too, I guess (”nothing to say and wrote a book anyway.”)
coach joe
November 29th, 2010
3:16 pm
Vazquez gets 7 million from the Marlins? Only in professional sports can you be bad/mediocre all year and your reward is anew contract with a different team for 7 million big ones. crazy sport..
jeffrey d
November 29th, 2010
3:17 pm
Macon – I was just saying that at 23, Escobar had as much experience playing American minor league ball as a kid out of high school
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
3:18 pm
A-Gon had 3 homers in Atlanta vs 8 homers in Toronto in about the same number of games and at bats. So he will end up with about 12 homers with Atlanta next year — MFin04
If you can’t figure out the Internet and how to use various websites, you should pick up a reference book like the Bill James Handbook or something. Statistical arguments don’t amount to much when your stats are so grossly inaccurate. Gonzalez had 17 homers for Toronto, six for the Braves, 23 for the season.
As for Escobar, he had no homers (with a .238 average and .618 OPS) in 301 at-bats for the Braves before the trade, and 4 homers and a .696 OPS in 266 at-bats for Toronto after the trade.
At age 27, he had the fifth-lowest OPS (.655) among major league shortstops, ahead of young Gold Glover Elvis Andrus (.643), Erick Aybar (.636), Alcides Escobar (.614, in his first full season), and fading veteran Cesar Izturis (.545).
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:21 pm
David O’Brien – Might want to look up the word “IN” in the dictionary. We are talking about home….home runs. Thus talking about how his homers were inflated in certain ballparks. But if you don’t want to follow the conversation, by all means…
Might want to check your numbers. He did in fact have 3 IN Atlanta. And he had 8 IN Toronto.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
3:22 pm
And to add my two cents on the modern country thing:
A lot of artists these days try too hard to regain the true country feel with their lyrics, and yet their music is still hard rocking guitars and drum machines. They sing about muddy 4 wheel drives with gun racks, and boondocks, and tractors, and heading out to the fishing hole, and listening to Hank, and saying Yee Haw, and blah, blah, blah.
The old guys hardly ever sang about that crap. They didn’t really TALK about how country they were. They just did it. Yeah there’s a few instances like Country Boy Can Survive and If That Ain’t Country, but I’d would argue that those were some of the weaker songs from those two particular artists’ catalogues.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
3:22 pm
Could everyone please shut up about Yunel Escobar!
EVERYONE is sick of it at this point, except those talking about it!
In other news, I read someone mention David Allen Coe…
Well, there was a DAC concert here Sat. and 3 people got stabbed at the concert…not exactly something that makes him likely to be booked again in the near future (not to say he had anything directly to do with this).
jeffrey d
November 29th, 2010
3:24 pm
A-Gon had 3 homers in Atlanta vs 8 homers in Toronto in about the same number of games and at bats. So he will end up with about 12 homers with Atlanta next year
In and with can sometimes be used interchangably, like you did at the end there. Unless you think A-Gon will hit 1 road homer this year
Bat Masterson
November 29th, 2010
3:25 pm
Pat Conroy…. If I’m giving him a bad review the lest I can do is get his name right.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
3:25 pm
Fin-
So wait, is AGon just never going to play on the road in 2011?
Or do you fully believe he’ll hit 1 HR in 82 games away from Turner?
Because according to your ATL/TOR argument where he hit 11 HR at home last yr, you cite him at 12 in 2011…that means 11/1 correct?
I’m gonna go ahead and say he hits 6 HR in ATL and 9 on the road.
MaconBraves (RIP)
November 29th, 2010
3:25 pm
jeffrey d–I understand that Escobar was older than your average minor leaguer when he came over, but he’s been in professional baseball in America for 5 years now. The Braves organization (coaches and players) had been trying to get him to show more respect for the game and his teammates for long enough. Last year, at the age of 27, he should have at least started to show some maturing but he wasn’t. Thus, the Braves cut ties with him (I know you only addressed the age issue, not the trade so I’m not trying to argue against your point of his age when he started his minor league career).
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
3:27 pm
coach joe – Many here were advicating signing Vazquez for $7M. He miracuously would get his velocity back, and repeat his (career best) year of 2009 if we could just get him back in Atlanta!
Of course, many rightly predicted exactly what did happen in 2010. We sold high. Good job, FW.
Funny how some here want to bring back every former Brave, no matter their reason for leaving, and their performance since being gone ( Andruw, Frenchy, Vazquez, Escobar, etc., etc.) Grass is always greener, I guess.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
3:30 pm
P-Town Brave: Ol’ DAC definitely draws a hard-edged crowd. To say the least.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
3:31 pm
Raleigh-
Yeah, some as in 3% I would say…
I can only remember wanting to bring one guy back in the past few years, and that was DeRo…BUT that was because he had gotten BETTER not worse, and not OLD, and most certainly not FAT and out of shape
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:33 pm
P-Town Brave – Lol. I can’t even follow this anymore myself.
I think A-Gon will probably hit around 12 homers total for the Braves next year. He had a hard time pulling them to RF at Turner Field it seemed. Most of his homers seemed to come in very hitter friendly parks. At the Rangers, Yankees, Rockies, Reds, 3 in 3 games at Baltimore (probably just the terrible pitching), two at the White Sox, I don’t know anything about that park.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
3:34 pm
MFin04: Why does that matter, that he hit 8 in Toronto? That means he actually hit more homers on the road with the Blue Jays (nine) than he hit at home. Sort of dilutes your own argument, doesn’t it?
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
3:35 pm
Fair enough, now what excuse does he have for his numbers in Atlanta last year?
A crap swing would be my guess, LOL. A bad half, too much hair dye, wrong girlfriend, all of the above, who knows?
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
3:39 pm
Pat Conroy…. If I’m giving him a bad review the lest I can do is get his name right.
Yeah, but which is worse: you getting the name wrong, or I following blithely along with the same error?
I’m going with the latter.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:40 pm
DOB – No it doesn’t dilute the argument. The Braves play in a lot of hitter friendly parks as well and he will no doubt hit some on the road. There is quite a drop-off from 8 to 3 however at home.
You play those numbers out over the course of the season and you get 16 homers in Toronto vs maybe 7 homers in Atlanta.
MaconBraves (RIP)
November 29th, 2010
3:43 pm
ncscoots– I’d use the hair dye if I were him. Those frosted tips were just wrong…
TnBrian
November 29th, 2010
3:43 pm
“the lazy Escobar throw that nearly got Glaus’ arm taken off” DOB
Yeah, and Frenchy ain’t a small guy either. Glaus was very lucky there and I even think Jeff did a mini arm tackle at the end there trying to maybe knock the ball out of Glaus’ glove.
That’s something that will stick out in my mind when thinking of Escobar. That throw and his attitude after the incident. Troy gave him a look after Cox left like he was seriously going to whoop that dude’s ass for that. Shame to because YE has so much talent.
Wow..
November 29th, 2010
3:44 pm
Alex Gonzalez is garbage. People’s hatred of Yunel Escobar is blinding them from this fact. He won’t have half as many HR next season and is going to end up being another black hole in the lineup.
Though, it is enjoyable watching him throw little b*tchfits everytime he weakly pops up on the first pitch or flail at pitches two feet off the plate
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
3:45 pm
I don’t know why everyone is getting so bent out of shape…
Alex is what he is…an average hitter w/ some pop and above average range in the field..
We did NOT get him to be a stud, we got him to be a complimentary piece.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
3:48 pm
Hey,
I liked Yunel as much as the next guy, and most of the regulars bloggers can tell you so, but the guy had to be shown the door…
He was just becoming an incredible liability!
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
3:51 pm
MFin04: Why are you so obsessed with how many homers Gonzalez hit in a half-season at Turner Field? For a guy who cares so much about homers, you sure are arguing for the wrong guy in Escobar, whose power has diminished rather than blossomed the way the Braves expected it would by now. I mean, homers aren’t all that important, but four in an entire season, for a guy with Escobar’s build and stroke? That’s pathetic. He’s got little speed and less power these days.
Of the 205 major league players who had at least 400 plate appearances in 2010, Yunel Escobar ranked 196th in slugging percentage (.318), which sandwiched him between 35-year-old David Eckstein (.326 in a career-worst season) and Juan Pierre (.316). And it should be noted, Pierre had 68 stolen bases to Yunel’s 6.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:54 pm
So A-Gon’s numbers as a Brave (72 games):
Average .240
On Base .291
Slugging .386
OPS .676
6 HR 38 RBI
Interesting fact that Escobar GIDP 18 DPS and A-Gon 16.
(A-Gon did have a lot more at bats/games player however.)
TnBrian
November 29th, 2010
3:54 pm
WOW, I don’t know, pick your poison with those two I guess. Gonzo does seem pouty at times (I’ve said this plenty of times), but I’ve yet to see him glare at umps, pitchers, score keepers, etc. when something doesn’t go his way and look like he’s literally rather be anywhere on the planet than be with the Braves.
I’d honestly rather see AG sure up his defense a little for us than I’d want to see him pop 15-20 or more HR. I’d like both of course, but just choosing I’d rather have him be more errorless at SS. Something I think every top notch team needs at SS.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
3:55 pm
Fin-
Sorry to tell ya, but you’re not gonna win this battle buddy.
VOR
November 29th, 2010
3:56 pm
I think the Braves got absolutely raped when they traded Ryan Langerhans for a player to be named later that was never named. I mean, what’s with the no name thing? At least Ryan had a name. Yeah, it was weird and long and stuff, and it looked kinda funny on the back of a jersey, but just because the clubhouse manager had a hard time getting the patch sewed on was no reason to dump him! To this day I still don’t know what we got for the guy. Really ticks me off. I think it’s Bobby’s fault.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
3:58 pm
Braves signed eight minor-league free agents, all to come to major league camp as non-roster invitees.
Most have already been mentioned here previously:
Here’s the names, from first two paragraphs of release:
ATLANTA – The Atlanta Braves today announced the signing of eight minor-league free agents. All eight minor-league players have been invited to Major League spring training camp as a non-roster invitees.
They include: Infielders Shawn Bowman and Ed Lucas, catchers J.C. Boscan and Wilkin Castillo, outfielders Brent Clevlen, Jose Constanza and Wilkin Ramirez , and right-handed pitcher Jay Sborz.
(By the way, all eight are 25 or older, which is the way it is with most six-year minor-league free agents, obviously.)
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
3:58 pm
David O’Brien – Agreed homers aren’t that important for a guy like Yunel, but they are for a guy like A-Gon who doesn’t hit for average and doesn’t get on base. This really wasn’t meant to be a huge elaborate thing. A-Gon’s numbers for the Braves really weren’t all that great.
The debate really was would you rather have what A-Gon brings to the table or Yunel. My opinion is that I’d take my chances with Yunel and Fredi Gonzalez as his manager this year.
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
3:59 pm
Wow – AG is not “garbage” — far from it. No one is saying he will hit 20+ HR in 2011. Most of us are certainly saying Yunel had to go, and we had to have another SS. AG is not an allstar (he was 1 year) but he is more than servicable, and will only be here 1 more year. Some people’s appearant love for Escobar is blinding them to AG’s worth.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
3:59 pm
I don’t know why everyone is getting so bent out of shape…
Oh, I think that’s pretty simple, actually: there just aren’t that many people here who can see both sides of the equation. This discussion turns into either a referendum on Escobar’s character (”good riddance, regardless of his talent”) or the failure to get a good return on the trade (”sold too low, regardless of Escobar’s failings”). Notice that there is a “regardless” in both those positions. As in, “without regard” for all the variables in play for the trade.
I blasted the trade for two days when it happened, as vociferously as anyone on the forum. Then, I shut up about it when Gonzalez put on the uni, and did so for the rest of the season. But no matter my distaste (at the time) for the trade, I can see both sides of it.
Fleming
November 29th, 2010
4:00 pm
MFin
He had a hard time pulling them to RF at Turner Field it seemed.
I believe most right handed hitters have a hard time pulling the ball to RF
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
4:03 pm
P-Town Brave – Not really a battle. I mean the Braves have A-Gon and Yunel is gone. I just hope like TnBrian does, that A-Gon does somehow still hit for power for the Braves and plays better defense.
We talked about acquiring this sure-handed power-hitting short stop and he disappointed on both of those. Not to mention he was just as flamboyant (which I actually enjoyed).
It didn’t get much better then when A-Gon threw his helmet down and did the slit-throat motion after one of his homers. Its just funny that they didn’t like Yunel’s emotion but A-Gon could pull a WWE finishing move motion.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
4:03 pm
Fleming – You are right, I meant LF. All his homers are to LF.
Snotboogie
November 29th, 2010
4:04 pm
My opinion is that I’d take my chances with Yunel and Fredi Gonzalez as his manager this year.
I dont know what magical powers you attribute to the spanish-speaking Fredi but he was the one who got into major issues with another SS and consequently lost his job (even though he handled it well from his side). Point is Fredi is a ML manager and not Super Nanny.
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
4:07 pm
MFin 04 – I don’t want YE back Period. Freddi or no Freddi. And I’m not willing to “take my chances”. BTW, you really think Bobby Cox, the ultimate “player’s manager” didn’t give Escobar every opportunity? I just don’t get this love for Escobar. I keep hearing about his “great potential”, but his performance kept getting worse.
Mike in VA
November 29th, 2010
4:08 pm
I realize the news is slow right now, but can’t we find a “live horse” to beat instead of this dead one.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:09 pm
I’m up to my knees in zero calories.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
4:11 pm
I suppose Brian McCann’s defense and Nate McLouth as a baseball player could be the “live horses” you wish to beat?
Or perhaps the Braves not signing Hinske or Uggla already?
Maybe Brooks Conrad as a Brave next year?
Murph
November 29th, 2010
4:11 pm
I preferred the deer stories over this back and forth about Escobar.
TnBrian
November 29th, 2010
4:13 pm
No joke, I read a week or so ago a Phillies fans comment on us getting Uggla and he said, “who cares, you don’t win with offensive players at 2nd and catcher. The Braves are still no threat to us.”
He went on about our defense and I do agree it needs to improve, but he of course made it sound like it was little league caliber. He also saud he’d much rather have Dominic Brown than Heyward.
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
4:13 pm
I’ll post a brief about Braves signing those six-year minor league free agents, and I will guarantee you that at least five people (none of you need to do it as a joke) will post comments about why are the Braves wasting money on these guys instead of, say, pursuing Jayson Werth.
Guaranteed.
MFin04
November 29th, 2010
4:13 pm
Chipper Jones coming in to Spring Training out of shape?
Or better yet…
Chipper Jones going hunting on his surgically “repaired” ACL.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:14 pm
Murph, I’m all for some good deer stories. Got a couple of decent bucks with my bow last month.
Jake W.
November 29th, 2010
4:15 pm
I dont know what magical powers you attribute to the spanish-speaking Fredi but he was the one who got into major issues with another SS and consequently lost his job (even though he handled it well from his side). Point is Fredi is a ML manager and not Super Nanny
Its actually a rather simple equation by blog logic, Fredi Gonzalez is to all Cubans what the braves are to all southeasterners. Meaning just the way most people think someone from the south would race to play and take a hometown discount for the braves, some think a latino manager, especially one from the same country could reach a fellow latino better. Not the best equation when you think about it because every body responds differently to different people and environments but I think the point does have some merit. Its hard not to believe that at least some of Bobby and Yunel’s misunderstandings came from the lack of being able to communicate face to face the way Bobby could with someone like Chipper. Thats not to say Fredi could have solved the Yunel riddle any better than Bobby but at least he would have had an open line of communication with the player whenever he wanted.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
4:15 pm
He also saud he’d much rather have Dominic Brown than Heyward.
So, would that lead you to think that anything else he had to say had more, or less, credibility?
TnBrian
November 29th, 2010
4:16 pm
This Philly fan who I blogged/fought with on this isn’t a kid either. He’s that blogs Lew. He studies baseball and has for 50 years — so he says. I just couldn’t believe how big a homer he is being such a “baseball expert”.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
4:16 pm
Hillbilly, what brand of bow do you use?
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:20 pm
Scoots, I’m a bit of a bargain shopper when it comes to bows. I have a Darton Trailblazer that’s about 9 years old. It wasn’t top-of-the-line when it was new, but good enough to get the job done. It’s not the fanciest thing in the world, but it’s laid more doe deer on the ground than Alabama put cottonseed.
Anders
November 29th, 2010
4:21 pm
As for Escobar, he had no homers (with a .238 average and .618 OPS) in 301 at-bats for the Braves before the trade, and 4 homers and a .696 OPS in 266 at-bats for Toronto after the trade.
At age 27, he had the fifth-lowest OPS (.655) among major league shortstops, ahead of young Gold Glover Elvis Andrus (.643), Erick Aybar (.636), Alcides Escobar (.614, in his first full season), and fading veteran Cesar Izturis (.545). (DOB)
Who’s farm system did this slacker come out of anyway? See what happens when you draft guys from outside the (770) area code? Never again.
BTW- in that same draft the “we only know how to buy players” called the Yankees took Brett Gardner 2 picks after the Braves took boy wonder Jordan Schafer at pick #107.
Oh yeah and Cardinals took Colby Rasmus with the pick right after the Braves took Joey Devine.
Aren’t these the same names that have been bandied about on here as “wish we could get those guys”?
Maybe that Braves crack talent evaluating crew I always hear about on here isn’t quite what it’s made out to be? Well at least in 2005 anyway.
TnBrian
November 29th, 2010
4:21 pm
DOB, I have yet to see you give any sort of review on Due Date. Surely you’ve seen it. It’s right up your alley of movies. I’m just a little surprised.
Mike in VA
November 29th, 2010
4:21 pm
All good topics MFin04.
I don’t know what the numbers are, but I think McCann did a much better job throwing out runners. At least, it looked that way on TV.
I like Nate, but I wish we would go after Elsbury.
We need to sign Hinske and Uggla ASAP.
I hope Brooks is a Brave next year. He made some errors, but is wasn’t from lack of hustle or effort. He’s a good guy and does well when doing what he was meant to do.
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
4:21 pm
TnBrian – At least the trolls haven’t come back here since they lost to SF.
braveslifer
November 29th, 2010
4:22 pm
“A-Gon’s numbers for the Braves really weren’t all that great.”
If you look at the season that Gonzo put together for the Braves and Blue Jays it is actually quite comparable to the season that Juan Uribe had. Uribe just signed a 3yr $21M contract. We have Gonzo for $2.5M. So we have a very similar player for about $4.5M less and did not have to give a 3yr deal to a 31yr old like the Dodgers did. Seems like a decent deal to me.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:22 pm
And bow technology is about like cell-phone technology these days. After 2 years, you’re behind the times. I fall into that category in both markets.
Jake W.
November 29th, 2010
4:22 pm
He also saud he’d much rather have Dominic Brown than Heyward.
I think whats apparent is that philly fans are just as delusional in the offseason as during the regular season. I’m still wondering where the guy is who guaranteed history with their certain three straight trips to the World Series. Cody F*in Ross is Bucky F*in Dent to the phillies.
Nothings Guaranteed.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
4:23 pm
not the fanciest thing in the world
As once told to me, “It ain’t the name on the stock, son, it’s the finger on the trigger.”
(I don’t have the bow version, LOL, so sue me.)
ABraveFan2
November 29th, 2010
4:23 pm
Wren is doing great! Even better….no talk of bringing in Julio Franco or Greg Norton as a backup to Freddie!
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2010
4:26 pm
TnBrian: No, I have not seen it. Bunch of others I wanted to see first, including a couple more I haven’t see yet. I saw Inside Job, Let Me In, Unstoppable and 127 Hours in past couple of weeks, and liked all four. Inside Job and 127 Hours would probably both be in my top 10 for the year, and Unstoppable was a thoroughly enjoyable big-budget movie, like most that Denzel makes.
I saw mostly modest reviews for Due Date, figured I’d wait to see it at theatre or on DVD.
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:26 pm
That’s absolutely true, scoots. Finger on the trigger works for me, as I shot with a triggered release.
I also have a Fred Bear that I keep as a backup. It’s probably a better bow than my Darton, but I just have a hard time hanging that old thing in the closet.
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
4:26 pm
Anders – It says more about the nature of the game than the evaluators of talent. Why do you think baseball has so many rounds in the draft? Many kids are taken in their teens, and their talent and future developement is an educated guess.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
4:28 pm
as I shot with a triggered release.
That right? Did you learn that way, or pick it up later?
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:32 pm
I hunted for a year shooting fingers before I started using a release. It’s a whole lot different. I actually forgot my release in the truck a couple of weeks ago and had to shoot at a buck without one. Shot 12 inches over his back. It was bad…not even close.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
4:32 pm
DOB-
Nah, I’ll just spend my time making Costanza jokes
By the end of Spring Training it’ll be like “By Mennen”….just can’t get that guy out of your head
Hillbilly
November 29th, 2010
4:34 pm
I guess it’s like using batting gloves vs. “raw dogging” it.
stachemoney22
November 29th, 2010
4:36 pm
You should include OBP when comparing the two players. In my original post I simply stated that we would have a black hole at SS this season, and that dealing for gonzo was a terrible mistake. Gonzo makes no attempt to move runners over, swings for the fences, and annually produces an obp of .300. Essentially, we have frenchy playing ss for us. Not to mention that Gonzo was one of the league leaders for errors last season, as I stated in my earlier post.
What most folks can’t grasp is that we went from a .571 first half team to a barely .500 team because we moved high obp guys for low trash obp guys and as a result our run production took a major hit. Trading escobar for gonzalez, dealing blanco(obp of .413 first half for us) for ankiel, and playing cabrera over diaz and keeping nate in there with his low obp killed us.
Our era in the second half was the exact same as it was in the first half last season. So, I suggested earlier that we need another outfielder, an experienced closer, and that SS would be a major issue.
Nate mclouth belongs in AA and we need to acquire a high obp speedy guy to play CF. Brett Gardner is one suggestion and Shin Soo Choo, although he would cost some nice prospects, would make a major impact.
People will say that injuries killed us last season, but I will tell you that it was wren dealing for the crap players, and bobby playing them cost us. When Chip went down Infante had an obp of .359 and was hot as could be for a long stretch. When Prado went down, In the last six games of the regular season, including four braves wins, conrad went 7-20 with a double, triple, homer and six rbi’s. So, hopefully we properly address our issues. Lastly, I am glad that 3 run homer bobby and his washed up self has finally hung it up. Welcome Fredi and his aggressive style.
Jake W.
November 29th, 2010
4:37 pm
BTW- in that same draft the “we only know how to buy players” called the Yankees took Brett Gardner 2 picks after the Braves took boy wonder Jordan Schafer at pick #107.
So Brett Gardner had a very Melky Cabrera like season last year in Yankee Stadium. I’m not sure I can call that a clear win over a guy who has battled injuries the last few years.
Colby Rasmus over Devine, seems to be another guy who has battled injuries a lot. But given our position back then, Smoltz going from closer to starter, you could see where we had a void for a closer.
But the Rookie of the year runner up was drafted 14th I believe. Every team wins and loses in the draft, some just lose more than others.
ncscoots
November 29th, 2010
4:38 pm
I guess it’s like using batting gloves vs. “raw dogging” it.
I can see that going from one to the other might skoosh your aim a mite.
I haven’t picked up a bow in at least 20 years, I bet, but I sure did love ‘em once upon a time.
Bay Area Steve
November 29th, 2010
4:40 pm
Hillbilly,
Dude, do yourself a favor, and go back and read Wednesday’s stuff. Murph, and many others, had the MIB rockin’. It was all deer, all the time. Hilarity ensued, and all that. In fact, I think I’ll go read it again, because A-Gon/Esco is only slightly above the Tex Trade on the Please-Make-It-Stop-O-Meter.
I’m certain you missed it, ’cause some dude started it by saying hunting deer was criminal, or some such.
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
4:42 pm
I don’t get where the man love for Brett Gardner is coming from?!
P-Town Brave ©
November 29th, 2010
4:44 pm
BA Steve-
I brought deer talk back for a short time this morning…
Would you care to go another round?
I agree…talking about Bobby Flay’s Throwdown Challenge would be more interesting than AGon v Yunel.
raleighbravefan
November 29th, 2010
4:47 pm
stach – Yeah, going from .571 to barely above .500 was all about the Escobar trade. It had absolutely nothein g to do with all those insignificant injuries we had.
Did AG kick your dog or dis your sister? I can’t figure any other reason for your rant.