6:57 pm November 8, 2010, by David O'Brien
November 10th, 201011:16 am
If JJ has a bounce back year he could be our most valuable trade piece next offseason or if he is that good we might decide not to trade him at all. We certainly don’t need to trade him while his value is low.
November 10th, 201011:19 am
Hanson and Dunn for Ellsbury.
I wouldn’t even trade Hanson straight up for Ellsbury. You’re either overvaluing Ellsbury or undervaluing Hanson maybe it’s both.
November 10th, 201011:20 am
I just checked on MLBrumors and what they are predicting for the braves is………….Brian Fuentes, Kevin Gregg and Pat Burrell.
Not to high on that but I can live with it. I like that guy Mather that we signed………have a good feeling o hunch about him……..
November 10th, 201011:21 am
“After this season, Jurjens is the guy that should be traded and since Lowe’s late season and playoff performances, people are silent about him.”
Actually, I started the “trade JJJ” and sell high bandwagon the second he became a Boras client.
Besides, if moving Lowe allowed Wren to go after a guy like Crawford or Werth? I’d still think about it.
What works better. A rotation with Lowe, Hudson, Hanson, JJJ and Minor and retreads in the outfield?
Or a rotation lead by Hudson, Hanson, Minor, Beachy and another veteran to eat innings (Millwood), while waiting for Medlen to return and Delgado/Teheran to arrive, with and outfield of Werth, Ellsbury and Heyward. Or Crawford, Ellsbury and Heyward?
There is a fine line for Wren to balance. He spent 3 years building the rotation up. So it’s a risk to move both JJJ and Lowe in the same season. But with the CHEAP young pitchers on the way (there is a very real possibility that the 2012 rotation could have Hudson, Hanson, Minor, Medlen and Teheran in it – and will cost about 15 million dollars – combined), why not go for the gusto and fix the outfield long-term this year? It might mean missing the playoffs in 2011. It might not.
But Bobby is gone and Fredi is in. This is the off-season that Wren sets up the team for the next half decade. Too many people still thinking that this is the “Bobby’s last hoorah” season.
Who knows? It could work. And if they’re close, it’s not like they wouldn’t still have prospects to trade at the deadline to swing a deal for the “missing link” along the way.
I still think that Wren makes a couple of trades nobody is talking about and fills CF and LF that way and that likely Lowe and JJJ are both on the team come April. But it’s fun to speculate about it either way, isn’t it?
November 10th, 201011:22 am
Burrell might still be able of hitting 25HR but his D? I think braves better do better than him.
November 10th, 201011:24 am
I think one of the writers predicted Kerry Wood to the Braves as well.
Burrell is as slow as a turtle………..I dont like that in n the OF………..prepare for a season like the one we got out of Anderson ………..
November 10th, 201011:27 am
you are right……missed that one………..if we nail Wood I would be very very happy……..he has been very good lately and should work as a mentor to new guys………….I like that.
P-Town Brave ©
November 10th, 201011:28 am
I dont really like any of those ideas from them…
Comparable, I would rather have Rhodes, Benoit, and Ordonez…
I like those 3 much better than 2 guys that give up WAY too many HR, WAY too many walks, and a guy who has much less upside than Ordonez who not only has better OBP and RBI numbers, but also has about a 60 pt higher batting average.
November 10th, 201011:29 am
November 10th, 2010
Hanson and Dunn for Ellsbury.
I wouldn’t even trade Hanson straight up for Ellsbury. You’re either overvaluing Ellsbury or undervaluing Hanson maybe it’s both.
And I’m guessing that’s right where the SOX are.
jay richbrave, Hanson and Dunn for Ellsbury?! There is NO WAY the Braves would be that stupid for an injury prone guy!
it doesnt even matter if ellsbury is injury prone. he simply isnt the type of player that can get that kind of return, healthy or not.
Fuentes might be a good acquisition but too many walks IMO.
November 10th, 201011:31 am
Kevin Gregg………a clear mistake of course.
November 10th, 2010
Funny how the “what have you done recently” pans out.
After last season, Javy Vasquez was the best thing in the world and D.Lowe should have been traded.
After this season, Jurjens is the guy that should be traded and since Lowe’s late season and playoff performances, people are silent about him.
This is the hot stove. Reality not needed……….evidently.
November 10th, 201011:32 am
Crazy – Fuentes might be a good addition if they feel KImbrel/and or Venters is not ready for closing. If they decide that one/both are, Wood would make more sense.
November 10th, 201011:33 am
November 10th, 2010
jay richbrave, Hanson and Dunn for Ellsbury?! There is NO WAY the Braves would be that stupid for an injury prone guy!
I couldn’t agree more. I’m trying to look at it from the SOX perspective.
November 10th, 201011:34 am
WOOD, WOOD, he’s our man, if he can’t mentor, no one can.
I mean obviously I would take Burrell over what we usually have out there, but I think Ordonez fits this team so much better…
The real question isn’t so much is he healthy, but one that hasnt been asked, is Maggs ok with coming to the NL when he has never played in the NL?
P-Town Brave ©,
Totally agree………plus I dont want any exphilly………LOL
Fuentes is not that bad really…..the other 2 are not so good ideas.
November 10th, 201011:36 am
THE YARD beckons. One hour in the yard, then back inside. Prisioner 213,674 reporting boss.
Larry in SC
November 10th, 201011:37 am
After following this blog, although not commenting much, I get jacked up at the players available and all the scenarios mentioned here…only to see nothing but cheap over the hill, has been band-aids acquired…looks to be another disappointing winter.
In Olney’s new column, he mentions the Braves when talking about where Crawford will land:
5. The Braves: He’d be great for them. The question is whether they would be willing to compete in a bidding war that might extend into the $120-150 million range.
It’s a shame to hear (accurate) statements like that in light of what DOB said about the guy running Liberty Media being able to find millions in his couch cushions..
November 10th, 201011:38 am
Hanson will not be traded for Ellsbury and I doubt Boston asked for him. Boston will ask high at first, the Braves will lowball, and then they will negotiate to see if they can find common ground.
Our areas of strength that we can deal from will leave Dunn, Infante, Lowe/Jurrjens, and minor league pitching prospects as available to be dealt
November 10th, 201011:39 am
I think braves are getting their bats from trades…………get prepare for a big surprise. We have too many pitchers…….braves will sacrifice at least one of them……I mean even after next season is over, they will still have……………HUDSON (THEY WILL KEEP HIM) + JJ + HANSON + BEACHY + MINOR + MEDLEN + TERAHAN
I think JJ, minor or beachy are gonna be traded. If it happens, I hope the pack includes nate.
I’m a big fan of Maggs too; however, some AL team will pay him more than Braves are prepared to offer, I’d wager. He fits better in the AL, given his injury history, and I think an AL team will be willing to accept more risk with him (i.e. offer a bigger paycheck).
Burrell is not a great choice, but he’ll sign for less than Maggs and won’t cost the talent that Swisher would. I don’t have access to defensive data – so not sure how Swisher’s D compares to Burrell. I’m assuming Swisher is slightly better in the field, but not by much.
November 10th, 201011:40 am
Actually, the Moody Blues state “and WE decide which is right…..” meaning YOU and ME! Not them.
November 10th, 201011:45 am
Forget signing Wood, hire Smoltz on as an assistant bullpen coach or something and have him mentor Kimbrel. He’s the guy you want teaching your young closer how to get sh*t done.
November 10th, 201011:47 am
Doc H – they will also have Lowe for another season after next year, if they don’t move him.
Larry, that list is just free agents. It’s pretty certain that any big pieces of the puzzle that the Braves add will have to come via trade. I doubt the 3 names with “Braves” next to them are guys the team is even considering.
November 10th, 201011:51 am
Current starting pitching (other than one of the rookies) will not be traded. You do NOTweaken a stregth to stregthen a weakness.
Our pitching is everything. Even with shlubs in the outfield and injuries last year, the pitching kept us in the race til the very end.
You improve by getting someone better at the weak spots and you don’t trade your strength to do it.
IF they make a deal, it will involve minor league talent or they’ll go with another stop gap until all that $$$$$$ (around $40 million) is freed up after 2012.
November 10th, 201011:54 am
I can see the Braves trying to lock up a few players in a year or two. The players might not bite, but the team will try: Prado, Heyward, Hanson, Jurrjens, etc.
Some of the Chipper/Lowe/KK/McLouth salary will go to these players.
November 10th, 201011:55 am
Anybody see the 30-for-30 film “The Best There Never Was” last night on ESPN, about Marcus Dupree? If not, they’re showing it again late tomorrow on ESPN2 and some other times in the future on ESPN and ESPN2. Do yourselves a favor and catch it.
I’ll never forget this sunny October afternoon at Kansas in 1982. I was a freshman sitting in the stands when then-OU freshman Dupree ripped off this run, the first big run of his meteoric college career:
When he stiff-armed that KU d-back, there was a hush over the crowd. Stunned disbelief.
There’s no doubt in my mind, if he’d stayed healthy and motivated, he would have been one of the greatest that ever played. Absolute phenom, in every sense of the word. He was 235 pounds and fast as hell as a freshman.
Great article up on Capitol Avenue Club (posted yesterday), dissecting available OFers the Braves might consider:
November 10th, 201011:56 am
My only thought to that is that JJ didn’t really help the team at all in 2010 and couple that w/ KK’s issues, and we still made the playoffs…
I think you could get away with trading him for a legit bat and it not really be considered weakening the rotation…especially considering you are greatly strengthening the offense by placing anything whatsoever worthwhile in LF.
November 10th, 201011:58 am
DS1 – I agree. It willbe after the 2012 season where big deals happen – not only with current players being offered multi year deals buying out arb anf FA years, but with major upgrades to needed areas.
In the meantime, Eren has consistently kept the major young talent and he’ll do it now. He also won’t bankrupt the team.
We’re really close and just a tweak or two (keeping our pitching – starting AND bullpen) will be enough to put us over the dge to WS caliber – we came close last year e3ven with piss poor outfield performances and catestrophic injuries. We don’t need much to make up the difference and Wren isn’t going to spend a fortune – either in cash or talent to upgrade.
Get used to it. That’s the way it is and I doubt I’d do it any differently under the circustances.
i like JJ for Ellsbury straight up
If Jurrjens’ projection is to rebound, then trading him for a player such as Ellsbury would be overpaying. If the projection is that he won’t rebound, then he’s unlikely to be enough even for an Ellsbury type.
I think most here are a little oversold on Ellsbury, in any event. He’s another of those .750 OF who does not really address the true need of the 2011 squad.
November 10th, 201012:00 pm
Interesting article on the capitalavenueclub blog… except they pretty much dislike any option that isn’t Willingham.
PTown – Dude, JJ is just NOT worth that bat at this piouint of his career after last year. That’s the way it is and the fact we feel he will come back won’t make him worth what you think he’ll bring. He won’t. We would do much better return wise hoping he comes back and wins 15 for us.
November 10th, 201012:01 pm
scoots makes a good point there.
November 10th, 201012:02 pm
JJ is not going to bring back a legit hitter given his 2010 performance and current injury concerns.
JJ has the most value in a Braves uniform for 2011.
Quit trying to trade him people. He’s going no where this offseason.
November 10th, 201012:03 pm
DOB…about Dupree, from Wikipedia…..”As a freshman in 1978, he ran a 4.4 40-yard dash. He had a 75-yard kickoff return touchdown on his first play in high school”….not a bad start
November 10th, 201012:05 pm
If the Braves offered McLouth, Infante and a significant young arm (Beachy, Venters, Delgado) for Rasmus, would the Cardinal laugh?
I am guessing there are enough second baseman on the FA market that the Cards would go that way to fill their infield need.
But without more offensive pieces, what are the chances JJ would even win 15 healthy getting 3 runs or less of support a game?
Besides, I really feel as though JJ isn’t quite as good as what he was in 09 and would regress a bit.
Plus the Boras factor…that in itself makes me want to get what I can…
You also have to consider that IF we keep him and his salary is escalated to 7M+ next season, it takes a bit off the table on the other end from a trade perspective.
November 10th, 201012:07 pm
I just feel there’s a bit of a gamble in keeping JJ too long as well, and also in that I fully understand as well as others that he is probably our best trade chip.
Can we at least agree on that?
November 10th, 201012:09 pm
PTown – you worry about the $7 mil NEXT year IF he puts up appropriate numbers. I dont see him amking more than $4 mil in arb this year and I’m doubting that without a stellar year in 2011 that he will make anywhere near $7 mil after two sucessive bad seasons. At that point you can DFA him or sign him cheaper.
I just don’t see him bringing any kind of return that would make it worth trading him this winter. I doubt they will.
November 10th, 201012:11 pm
Agreed. I think Frank pulls one more outfielder out of the hat. Not sure if it will be a name that will inspire feelings of euphoria, or something else totally different.
I would not be overly surprised to see Diaz and some platoon partner get 1 more shot in Atlanta.
That 325/380/480 slash line in totally healthy seasons is impressive.
Might there be a left-handed partner out there with a decent glove and a good bat against righties? Could McLouth be that guy?
It’s going to be interesting to see which way Smilin Frank goes on this one! What I’d give to be a fly on the wall of his office………..
November 10th, 201012:12 pm
JJ has to rebuild his value.
He looks more likely to be traded after next season (assuming the rotation can survive without him a year from now). I don’t think his contract for 2011 will be that unreasonable given his crappy 2010. He will get a raise, but not to $7+ mill, P-Town Brave.
November 10th, 201012:13 pm
PTown – And what is the gamble you take? That he’ll be good and worth the money? Not much downside there that I can see.
If he doesn’t return to form you DFA him, or trade him for what you could get or part of a package and you lose what you could have gotten this winter – not much.
I fail to see the problem. It’s not as if he’s owed a guaranteed long term contract and isn’t performing.
November 10th, 201012:16 pm
I think Wren has to add some sort of significant OF bat this offseason or he’ll be in trouble. I mean, it’s been the one hole to fill that Braves management has publicly discussed since the season ended. If he enters ST with Mather and some independent league guys as his only winter pickups he’s going to have to answer to more than just angry Braves fans.
My point there…
-1 year closer to FA
-much higher salary so it could lower his trade value
-1 year closer to anyone dealing w/ Boras
Those I think are all cons…yes, it would take a good 2010 for that to happen, but I think teams would still shy away from providing a premium controllable bat for a guy that they dont think they could extend bc of Boras.
JJ is pretty much a guy that is about 90% certain to hit the market
November 10th, 201012:17 pm
DS1 – Realistically, I could see Wren settling for a Diaz/Hinske platoon – worst case scenario, getting a RHRP and some bench help.
I still believe that nothing major will happen until the 2012 off season when tons of $$$$$ is freed up ($40 million or more). Makes more sense to go with what we can now and reload then.
They won’t trade starting pitching, our current bullpen or our stud pitching prospects. If Wren can’t get a decent outfielder with a package of minor leaguers (except Teheran and Delgado), then it will be someone like Burrell for this year and next, or a platoon.
Bank on it and weep if you must. I think it will work, IF we keep the pitching.
November 10th, 201012:18 pm
But, but, but, but, but Lew; I really, really, REALLY want to trade him NOW for a really, really, REALLY good hitter!
And Lew respond: “I’m sorry Wayne, I didn’t know you really, really, REALLY wanted to trade him this winter! That changes everything! Of course we can trade him if that’s what you really, really, REALLY want!”
(an old line I used to use on my kids when they were pre-teens and really, really, REALLY wanted something very badly!)
November 10th, 201012:20 pm
Murph, no one who covers the Braves believes or insinuates that Wren won’t add another OF. Only ones saying that or worrying about that are an impatient segment of the fan base, a group of folks who don’t seem to acknowledge that not a single trade — not one — nor a single significant free agent switching teams has happened yet. None. It’s Nov. 10 and the World Series only ended a week ago. The Winter Meetings are still a month away.
November 10th, 201012:21 pm
Even taking what you have stated at face value, you are neglecting the fact that teams are probably going to be weary of young pitcher in his arb. years, coming off a season marred by injuries, and, overall he put up pretty mediocre numbers.
You are overstating JJ’s current value. I really don’t think he can bring back a player of value that will help the Braves in 2011.
If Frank knew how much we were suffering here, he’d get his azz in gear and go out and get us a slugger!
November 10th, 201012:22 pm
PTown – And what makes you feel we have to deal with Boras? JJ is under our control (even with arb) for three more years. If his performance declines to the point he isn’t worth what he’ll command, you release him, or re-sign him for less.
They will NOT sign him long term anyway, so Boras is a moot point (he really has no say during arb.). They won’t need Jurrjens. IN 2013, when Lowe and Hudson are gone, we will have a rotation of Hanson, Medlen, Minor, Teheran and Delgado or they’ll add an arm like Millwood or Vazquez ( current examples, not who they would go for in two years, but they show a point of depaerture).
Jurrjens is not the issue you think he is. He’s more of a footnote than anything.
November 10th, 201012:23 pm
DS1 – Really.
November 10th, 201012:25 pm
My wife went for a motorcycle ride with her uncle on his Gold Wing in the St George area last weekend, and now all I’m hearing is how great it was!!!
Get the girl a Jeep, and she still ain’t satisfied!!!
What’s a guy to do?
November 10th, 201012:27 pm
Lew – Really, REALLY!
November 10th, 201012:28 pm
You got much snow up your way yet? We’re getting quite a bit on the mountains aroud here. Lots of snow on the benches, but not much sticking.
November 10th, 201012:29 pm
I know DOB, I was making a statement directed at the impatient fans, not you guys.
I’m guessing conversations will start at the GM meetings, continue through to the winter meetings, and we’ll probably hear something after that. Would be nice to get someone before Xmas, but I guess so long as it’s done before March I’ll be happy enough.
November 10th, 201012:30 pm
DOB, 2 things…
I watched the Dupree thing last night and I never heard of the guy (I’m only 33), but it seemed like he was Bo Jackson before there was a Bo Jackson. It’s a shame his attitude was so bad, and I would blame that reverend dude they kept interviewing, it sounds like he was filling Dupree’s head with a bunch of self-serving BS.
Second thing, I have to disagree about The Walking Dead. I loved the first episode and was absolutely hooked. But I thought the 2nd episode took a huge step backwards and I found the new characters annoying (particularly the racist white guy they left for dead on the roof). I still love the main character though and plan on tuning in next time, but I hope they can introduce some better supporting characters. But I agree, AMC has the best shows and my wife and I are loyal Mad Men watchers and loved The Village miniseries they did with Jim Caviesel (sp?).
DS1, If the Braves offered McLouth, Infante and a significant young arm (Beachy, Venters, Delgado) for Rasmus, would the Cardinal laugh?
yes they would laugh, and they also might not want to go the free agent route for 2nd base.
the cardinals need cheap players. really cheap ones, which, along with his poor play, is why they wouldnt touch mclouth.
IF they were to trade rasmus, it would be because they saw a chance to turn one really cheap major league player into several cheap major league players.
so, in a trade for rasmus, think cheap, major league talent…which means, basically the entire braves bullpen, beachy, minor, prado, infante, and maybe some guys that are close, like young, tehran, ect.
November 10th, 201012:31 pm
Re: Jurrjens – If the Braves were making a deal to acquire a pitcher who was injured three times (separate injuries) and who had not only missed considerable time the previous season and had corrective surgery and in addition had an ERA that increased by two runs per game and who pithed half of the innings of the previous year and we were going to trade them Heyward, how far would the resulting explosion and conflagration be seen and heard?
I rest my case.
Lew, you keep talking about the money coming free in 2012. Any idea of who will need to be resigned that year and take up a chunk of that cash internally?
November 10th, 201012:32 pm
Haven’t visited the blog in while. Nice to see people are still kicking the same old tomato cans around.
DS1 – Flurries, sleet and freezing rain and several inches in the mountains. That’s all so far. Of course, it got warm as soon as I put the snow tires on the car.
November 10th, 201012:33 pm
Sorry, I meant The Prisoner, the place was called the village.
November 10th, 201012:34 pm
Lew – your 12:31 summed up reality quite nicely
November 10th, 201012:35 pm
Murph – Do I know? No. I think they’ll sign Hanson and Heyward long term then and maybe offer Medlen and extension – maybe Prado, too, if he continues o hit like this year.
“I think most here are a little oversold on Ellsbury, in any event. He’s another of those .750 OF who does not really address the true need of the 2011 squad.” scoots
As the lone signing/trade this off-season (leaving Diaz and Hinske to platoon in LF)? I have to agree with you.
If Wren would swing a deal for Ellsbury, inserting him into the leadoff and CF spot AND add a RH power bat in LF? Then I think it significantly makes the lineup deeper and gives us some speed in our lineup. Allowing Prado to drop in the order and knock in some runs with all those doubles, rather than scoring runs by hitting them at the top of the order.
As I’ve stated numerous times, Prado is a just a damn good hitter and if healthy will help this team anywhere he is asked to hit in the lineup. He has 15-20 HR potential and is going to have around 40 doubles. If he bats leadoff we all saw how he can ignite the lineup last year. If the team has another legit leadoff hitter, he’s capable of knocking in 100+ runs if put in an RBI spot of the lineup.
He could also go back to the 2-hole where he can do both. Knock in the leadoff hitter and lower batting order guys in the even they get on AND set the table for Heyward and the boys after him.
But with what Chipper has become as a hitter and his control with the bat, I think with a speed threat at the top of the order, he would be a great 2-hole hitter with the right side of the infield opened up, allowing Prado to maybe bat cleanup with Heyward 3rd.
Prado might not be an ideal cleanup guy. But he is RH and would split up Heyward and Mac. So many ways Fredi could go with lineup. But until all the pieces of the puzzle are in place, it’s way too hard to speculate on who’s going to bat where. Hell, who knows? If Chipper is healthy, I can legitimately see him batting 3rd again. If he’s driving the ball again, why not?
November 10th, 201012:37 pm
LPad- It’s an annual Rite of Passage with a Ground Hog Day Complex added for extra interest.
November 10th, 201012:40 pm
Nathan – THing is that if they get Ellsbury then you also get that platoon, because they aren’t going to be able to trade Nate and he WILL get every opportunity to prove he can come back. Wren won’t go out and fill two positions with full timers.
November 10th, 201012:41 pm
N8 – The Phillies do pretty well with two lefties hitting back to back. With Freeman onboard. I could see a 3,4,5,6 combo of Heyward, Mac, Prado and Freeman. I no some object to Mac hitting 4, but I don’t see Freeman hitting 4th right now. Maybe after his rookie year though.
November 10th, 201012:42 pm
Speaking of The Walking Dead, ratings were so good for first two episodes that AMC has already picked it up for a second season. First season’s only going to last six episodes, but they’ve signed on for 13 episodes in second season.
November 10th, 201012:45 pm
Thus endeth my pontification. Got stuff that needs doin and it ain’t gettin done chatting with y’all – though it’s been fun as usual. Later Denizens. Reshape the world in your respective images.
DS1 – divorce is an option
I wish we could get Ellsbury, but I don’t think he is available. I really think the Red Sox are going to go after Crawford with the idea of pairing him with Ellsbury at the top of the lineup to create a Tampa speed-like approach. Tampa has given them fits and I think they realize how devasting speed can be. Especially with hitters like Youk, Ortiz and Pedoria also in the lineup.
November 10th, 201012:47 pm
No way JJ gets traded this year. Are you forgetting that Medlen had TJ and the Braves are already down one starter from last year? Are you willing to rest the season on Minor and Beachy just because they had a couple good games last year. Remember JoJo and Chucky had a few good games themselves.
November 10th, 201012:48 pm
I think too many people are also underestimating how much gamble teams might be willing to take on a guy like JJJ.
After all, JS traded for oft-injured JD Drew and gave up a ML pitcher (Marquis) and a really good prospect for one year of Drew on the gamble that he could stay healthy for a year and help the team. Which he did.
I think many teams will line up to gamble on JJJ, knowing he’s relatively cheap, and under control for 3 more years. If he fails this year, there’s always the next two seasons for him to rebound and get healthy.
My guess is that Boston looks at Ellsbury the same way we (fans) look at JJJ. Dynamic talent, coming off of a major injury and much missed time, but somehow managed to compete without them in the lineup much.
Add to that, Boston is legit players for Crawford and Werth. If they can gamble on a great pitcher (potentially great if healthy) like JJJ and spend the money to replace Ellsbury, they might go for it.
I realize that if JJJ goes to Boston and is completely healthy and dominates, along with Ellsbury coming to Atlanta and being injury prone, it will look like a horrible trade on our end.
But when on a tight budget, finding a potential jewel like Ellsbury for a guy we realy didn’t need last year to win 91 games (might be different this year without Medlen), is probably close to the mindset that Frank has.
Braves went 13-1 in Medlen’s starts and 12-8 in JJJ’s starts. That’s 25-9 in those starts. As dominant as JJJ was in 2009, the Braves went 17-17 in his starts.
So the question is as follows: Can the Braves find a guy (Minor, Beachy, Millwood, etc…) to pitch enough innings and keep the games close enough for the Braves to go 17-17 in 34 or so starts, and add a dynamic OF bat? And if they can, is that combination BETTER than keeping JJJ and having poor run support by finding a lesser option(s) to play in the OF?
It’s the age old question. I think we all saw what happens with poor run support and defense behind great pitching.
Me? With Hanson and Hudson on board (and Lowe for now), I’ll take my chances with some league average pitchers in the 4th and 5th spots of the rotation with 2 more bats in the lineup, vs. 4 really good starting pitchers and a weak lineup.
November 10th, 201012:49 pm
The Braves will send Lowe to the Yankees and get Gardner as soon as the Yankees sign Crawford.
They will also sign Vasquez
November 10th, 201012:52 pm
Are you kidding me, after 33.5 years, that’s cost me everything! Better off getting a ride!
November 10th, 201012:55 pm
great post at 12:35 Nate. Agree
The pitchers you replace JJ with if he were traded would have to replace the 25 wins that JJ and Meds gave the Braves. Meds is gone for the season unless he can start a few at the end.
November 10th, 201012:58 pm
Why in the wide wide world of sports would the Braves trade for Gardner? The guy has 8 HR in 1000 plate appearances and a .268 average.
What hole does he fill on this team? Trading Lowe for Gardner would go down as one of the worst moves in Wren’s history of questionable moves, which is saying a lot.
And how many wins did the Braves have when KK started? Those wins have to be replaced as well
November 10th, 201012:59 pm
N8 – Do the Red Sox even need JJ? They have Lackey, Beckett, Lester, Buchholz and Dice-K. With more arms on the way. Also, Ellsbury broke some ribs. He didn’t need knee surgery or have shoulder tightness.
And a key aspect of the Drew trade was that we were trying to win now. We gave up a pitcher that had been demoted to AAA in Marquis and a young pitching prospect. Don’t expect a proven commodity in any trade for a team trying to win now. Look at the Vasquez trade. Yankees gave up a big time pitching prospect and a fourth outfielder for a pitcher that could of helped them now.
November 10th, 20101:00 pm
Where is McLouth in this scenario of yours?
Given our recent addition of Mather, I almost expect Diaz to not be back…
Hinske is less of a certainty to be gone but who knows…I can’t see him being priority #1 or even #2 at this point…
November 10th, 20101:02 pm
My next ?
Why is Ellsbury the name mentioned?
I understand he MAY be available but w/ the Sox wanting Werth to play RF, I would think Drew would be the available man in Boston.
November 10th, 20101:03 pm
Murph – Gardner is going to bat leadoff and play CF
Then they trade JJ and minor leaguers for Carlos Quentin to play LF and bat cleanup
November 10th, 20101:05 pm
Enter your comments here
November 10th, 20101:10 pm
coach, I’d be very surprised, disappointed, etc if the Braves were to trade for Gardner. They’ve got a leadoff man already in Prado, McLouth is earning too much to be stuck on the bench without getting a least a shot at redemption, and quite frankly, Gardner kind of sort of sucks.
November 10th, 20101:15 pm
Murph – the Braves could use a true leadoff hitter, one with speed, especially if he plays a good defensive CF. They could move Prado lower in the order.
November 10th, 20101:16 pm
since we are all talking theoretically, what would people here prefer:
Lowe for Gardner
JJ for Ellsbury
Dunn/Infante/lower pitching prospect for Ellsbury
November 10th, 20101:18 pm
November 10th, 20101:26 pm
“And how many wins did the Braves have when KK started? Those wins have to be replaced as well”
The Braves were 5-11 in KK’s starts. I asked my dad. He said he’d help out in replacing those 5 wins if we need him.
Infante for President
November 10th, 20101:32 pm
I saw that about The Walking Dead– awesome news! Though my sister, who has been watching it with us, is threatening to bail out because she’s apparently had scary dreams the past couple of Sundays!
Okay, here’s a baseball comment: My suspicion is that Wren will once again surprise us by not scooping one of the sort of mid-tier outfielders that everyone has been discussing on the blog. I keep thinking about how the Braves could send Infante out to the outfield, which would possibly solve one problem right there. Perhaps he trades Prado or AGon for a bigger bat? (Not saying I’d like to see either of those moves, especially not trading Prado–I’m not sure who you could get that would be a definitively better hitter than Prado at 2B–just trying to figure out how this would work without involving an obvious outfield move). I’m just thinking about how he tried to get Furcal when we all thought he was targeting various outfielders this time last year…
November 10th, 20101:34 pm
DOB! That dupree 30 for 30 was good last night. They should def. Make it mandatory for every CFB prospect to watch that. Cough* cam newton
November 10th, 20101:36 pm
“The pitchers you replace JJ with if he were traded would have to replace the 25 wins that JJ and Meds gave the Braves. Meds is gone for the season unless he can start a few at the end.”
It’s not that black and white. 2011 is NOT 2010. Circumstances will change. In Hanson, Hudson and Lowe’s 101 starts, the team went 57-44.
Think about that for a second. Hudson and Hanson literally dominated all year, save a handful of starts for both of them. Lowe was pretty consistent all year and dominant as hell in September (when Hudson struggled). Yet we still managed to lose 44 games that they started in. Even with our stellar bullpen.
While you probably don’t replace the 25-9 record that Medlen and JJJ gave us. It isn’t out of line to think that with a better lineup and better defense, that you can’t go 17-17 in those 34 starts, and make up the other 9 wins in Hudson, Lowe’s and Hanson’s starts by giving them better run support (mainly Hudson and Hanson).
I’ve said it before, I’ll state it again. I’d rather have 3 really good pitcher (Hudson, Hanson, Lowe) and fill out the rotation with Minor, Beachy and/or a veteran (or even two) that can eat innings and compete like Millwood or Vazquez, and have a SOLID consistent offense for 162 games, than add JJJ to that mix giving us 4 solid/really good starters and a weak lineup.
We’ve now seen for two years what happens with really good pitching and no hitting. As I stated before, in 2009 Jurrjens made 34 starts and had a 2.60 ERA…. the team went 17-17 in those starts.
Can’t win if you don’t score. You can win if you score only a run or two if you have the Giants rotation. But face it. Hanson, Hudson and Lowe (and even JJJ) aren’t complete game shutout pitchers. They are VERY good pitchers that give you a quality start most times out, but are very unlikely to win 1-0 or 2-1 games on a regular basis. They pitch to contact too much.
Improving the defense and lineup will make Hanson and Hudson 20 game winners. Bank on it.
November 10th, 20101:37 pm
No, no, no to any of these old re-retreads on this list. Forget about Ordonez, Burrell or Berkman. They are all done, injured and/or deadweight.
The only guy out there who makes any sense is Ellsbury. But he will come at a price. Rasmus seems to have character issues. Ditto for Kemp. The other guys are past their prime. Period. No thanks
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