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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,652 comments Add your comment
DS1
November 10th, 2010
2:13 am
ward
What you truly need to do is to pay attention to exactly what FW is saying. He never said he was going to go out and get a big HR hitting left fielder, a true cleanup hitter. He said he was going to have to get creative to improve the position.
FW has not been untruthful yet about anything he has stated. It is only those that refuse to really read his words that are disappointed in him.
While it is OK to be disappointed that maybe we didn’t get the hitter we wanted last year, that was not FW’s ultimate goal. He HAD to deal a pitcher, due to Hudson’s contract. He floated Lowe and Vazquez, and ultimately got the best deal he thought he could get.
Nobody is disappointed with Mike Dunn or A. Vizcaino as pitching prospects. Melky was a throw in. He didn’t work out, but then again, he was always a 4th outfielder at best.
What really killed us last year was McLouth’s disastar of a season and Diaz injury shortened season.
As far as it being quiet, well old Smilin Frank learned his lesson a couple of winters back in letting too many folks know his intentions. He got drug around the country by his nose by some other GM’s and agents.
He has since learned his lesson, and you probably won’t see it coming until after it has been completed this year.
Give it a few more weeks. Might happen at the GM meetings next week, or it might not happen until the Winter meetings in December.
Patience, grasshopper!
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:16 am
ejr: i can’t go along with diaz in left field sorry. i can’t support diaz. everthing else looks good. minus diaz. every one has good ideas, but leave diaz out! Go!!! Braves!!!!
DS1
November 10th, 2010
2:17 am
Is it my lot in life to continue to defend our man Wren on the ole blog to those that will not listen with their minds?
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:22 am
ds1: i read the article, but can anyone believe wren?even on being creative?was he creative in getting melky c, mclouth? lee ,and gonzalaz he did well,but he needs to do more than being creative to me. he needs to be bold. Go!!! Braves!!!!
DS1
November 10th, 2010
2:26 am
ward
Would you be happy with a platoon that could give you the following numbers in LF for 2011?
275/340/450 with about 18-20 dingers
Just curious
That is a probably close to what you could get out of a Hinske/Diaz platoon if they hit their career averages (not their highs, but their average seasons).
Just sayin
Did Diaz not ask your sister to dance in high school or something?
Do you even look at the stats at all? Just curious.
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:26 am
if wren pulls out a deal. i will solute him, and give him credit.until then i’ll be patient. Go!!! braves!!!!
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:27 am
i would like hinske, and corey patterson.
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:31 am
diaz just hits too many pop ups with runners in scoring position.
DS1
November 10th, 2010
2:31 am
Wren made a heckuva a deal getting McLouth. Nate had some vision and concussion issues this year. But we didn’t give up much to get him. And when that deal was made, folks were about to give FW the executive of the year award.
And as for Melky, do you not realize that Melky was a throw in??? He wasn’t the target. The goal in that trade was to shed Javy Vazquez 2010 salary, so he could keep the payroll in line with his marching orders.
FW does not decide how much money can be spent, Liberty Media does.
And if you think he could have done better, did you see how well Dunn pitched this year, and how highly thought of Vizcaino is???
As Bones McCoy told Jim Kirk, “My God man, I’m just an old country doctor!!!”
DS1
November 10th, 2010
2:33 am
When I just read Corey Patterson, I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Are you kidding me???? He makes Matt Diaz look like Albert Pujols!
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:39 am
i know what your saying ,but we don’t need thow ins, and patterson has way better speed than diaz. i’m not sold in diaz like everybody esle. batting averages are one thing, but knocking runs in, and runners in scoring [position is another thing.patterson can steal some bases. GO!!! Braves!!!!
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:43 am
for the amount of games he played 21 stolen bases is pretty darn good compared to diaz.
DS1
November 10th, 2010
2:45 am
If Patterson could just learn how to steal first more often…….
Nite ward.
It’s all about getting on base. OBP. That’s extremely important. That’s what hurt the Braves most down the stretch.
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:45 am
speed is like setting the table for your hitters. it’s not about the huge offensive numbers all the time. i like a littlebit of every thing. Go!!!! Braves!!!!
ward
November 10th, 2010
2:48 am
you have a good one nite too. you have a lot of good points too. in fact everybody does. what will wren do? thats the biggest qeustion mark? have a good one. Go!!! Braves!!!!
DS1
November 10th, 2010
3:00 am
Jason Heyward led the Braves in steals with 11 for the year. Not too good. So, did our lack of team speed keep us out of first place for over 3 months. No.
Our loss of some very good OBP hitters (Chipper Jones and to a lesser extent Martin Prado) is why we faltered down the stretch. Plus some other factors, but that was it primarily.
N8
November 10th, 2010
3:17 am
“Our loss of some very good OBP hitters (Chipper Jones and to a lesser extent Martin Prado) is why we faltered down the stretch. Plus some other factors, but that was it primarily.” DS1
While it factored in, I somewhat disagree with you.
1) Even though I think Chipper wasn’t an RBI producing 3-hole hitter last year, he was missed. No real way to deny that. Had Brooks played better defense, the blow would have been lessened.
2) I think losing Prado was a much bigger loss than Chipper. While chipper had the OBP to still help the team, Prado was 2nd on the team to Heyward in both SLG and OPS. So when he went down, we lost a big RBI threat in the middle of the order (after he replaced Chipper in the 3-hole). In 41 games started, while batting 3rd, Prado had 48 hits and 23 RBI. Chipper had 43 RBI in 87 starts. Not a huge difference. But Prado was clearly capable of being the 3-hole hitter this team needed against SF.
But the biggest factor down the stretch and in the playoffs was the defense. There was a stat at one point (before the post-season error fest), that the Braves had 65 errors after the all-star break. To put that into perspective, the Yankees had 69 errors all year.
Just simply can’t win games consistently when you kick the ball around. As putrid as our offense was against the Giants (and it was putrid to put it mildly – though upon seeing what the Giants pitchers did to Philly and Texas – it softens the blow a bit), we had enough offense to win that series. Our pitchers pretty much matched them and save Conrad’s glove-work, Infante not knocking down the groundball in the 1-0 game one loss (and a horrible call at 2B on Posey’s SB), the Braves might have swept the Giants.
Like I said. No denying that losing one of Chipper and Prado hurt us. But losing both of them pretty much sucked. I would have been curious to see what we could have done with Prado at 2B, Chipper at 3B and Infante in LF with Conrad and Hinske being the bench guys.
Too late to dwell on it now. But assuming our pitching is up to the challenge again, with some solid defense, this team doesn’t need much more offense to be as competitive as they were all year.
Now, if Wren has visions of this team being elite, the defense AND offense (LF and CF) obviously need an upgrade.
DS1
November 10th, 2010
3:38 am
N8
Without a lot of digging, I am pulling this from my anal cavity. Our errors really didn’t cost us as many games as some might think from mid August through the end of September. Conrad and Infante’s boots in the playoffs definitely hurt, but down the stretch, it was our inability to score a few more runs that hurt us the most. And the loss of the two we mentioned hurt the most. We were still doing very well when Chipper went down.
Nobody was a big run producing machine. The team scored runs. Different hero every night.
While I would love to see our D improve, I think it was the lack of runners on base that did us in, imho.
I’d sure love to hear what other knowledgeable folk think though.
I could be wrong, as I picked the wrong place to have a burrito today. So the possibility of me being wrong is definitely possible.
And to compare 2011 with 2010 could be dangerous. So many dynamics come into play from season to season. Who’da thunk we would have come from behind in so many games this past year? It was a magical season, for sure.
But I do agree that defense did us in against the Giants. That series coulda went our way with a couple of stops on D.
I’ll check back in tomorrow for any additional thoughts you might have. Have a good night………..
nolie
November 10th, 2010
4:41 am
and corey patterson. ward
Corey Patterson? What in the world would make you want Patterson? He is a terrible hitter with a career OPS under 700 and an OPS+ of 80. That means that he is 20% worse than the average MLB hitter. That is really really bad.
old man
November 10th, 2010
6:50 am
In 2010, we were 5th of 16 teams in runs scored. Not horrible.
We don’t need to makeover the whole team. Just one more piece. Over 162 games, Freeman will be an upgrade.
old man
November 10th, 2010
7:20 am
Where is everybody?
old man
November 10th, 2010
7:21 am
I bet Frank Wren has been up for the past hour, plotting his moves.
old man
November 10th, 2010
7:30 am
As long as I have the board to myself . . .
The divergence of opinion on the piece we need is between a slower, lower OBP slugger versus a faster, better fielding CF, with the OBP to bat #1. We need power more, but all of those choices being discussed seem to have a lot of baggage (too old, low average, horrible fielder, etc.). The Ellsbury/Upton ideas seem to be within our trade or free agent budget (maybe), so perhaps we should go that direction. We have guys who might hit 15-25 HRs–Jason, Chipper, MCann, Prado, whoever is in LF, A-Gon, Freeman–and if we really are only one piece away offensively, why try to stick a square peg in a round hole with someone like Burrell? Take what the market gives us, and if it is a speedy, slick fielding guy who will hit .315, and hit 5 HRs and steal 45 bases, perhaps that’s what we need to do.
old man
November 10th, 2010
8:22 am
And it would sure be more fun to watch than waiting for some old f*rt to hit a solo home run.
old man
November 10th, 2010
8:29 am
BTW, Ellsbury hits L, but has a higher average against LH pitching, more HRs and 2Bs against RH pitching.
70 stolen bases in 2009. Wow. (In 2010, he missed most of the season with broken ribs).
Anders
November 10th, 2010
8:55 am
If the Yankees decide to trade him, Swisher might draw interest from the Braves. He’s bad defensively, though probably no worse than some other options that might be considered for LF, and he’s a switch hitter with power. Fourteen of his 29 homers came on the road last season, and he had a higher OPS (.885) on the road than at home (.854). The $9 mill salary for 2011 (and $10.25 mill option for 2012 and $1 mill buyout) isn’t cheap, especially for a team with payroll constraints. But it’s pretty fair, really, given Swisher’s production the past couple of seasons. (DOB)
Be warned. Swishers in season number are good because pitchers have to pitch to someone in that line up. Once the post season starts and every at bat is treated the same his numbers fall off the map. He’s kind of on the other side of the overall team talentrainbow from whence McLouth came but once on the Braves I think you’d get similar results. You’d be asking yourselves “Where’s the guy that was ripping it up for the team we got him from?”
Just sayin.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
8:58 am
BTW- Just to show you how tough it can be to play here in NY, Jeter is getting slammed by the hometown Daily News for winning the GG. I happen to agree with it but I am surprised at how harsh the local media is treating it.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
8:59 am
Well, it looks like its just me and the Old Man this morning. Don’t forget to take your pills Old Man!
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
8:59 am
FALL BALL
MEXICO
MATT YOUNG returns with a vengence last night, playing yard-ball, and bringing perfection to the top of the YAQUIS’ line-up in the NAVOJOAS victory over OBREGON. YOUNG goes 4-4, 1 R, 1 HR, 1 BB, .398 BA. The man is whalin’ away at the plate making sure the BRAVES don’t forget him in the spring. He’s got a shot at the fourth outfielder slot and he deserves it.
VENEZUELA
23 year-old switch-hitting C OSMAN MARVEL goes 0-1 yesterday, 1 SO, .293 BA. OSMAN has appeared in 18 G, 58 AB, 8 R, 17 H, 4 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 5 RBI, 6 BB, 8 SO, 1 SB, 1 CS, .359 OBP, .397 SLG, ..756 OPS.
SS ‘THE LIBERATOR’ BOLIVAR goes 2-4, 2 R, .222 BA as he re-surfaces above the mendoza line.
And LH/RP LUIS AVILAN continues to bring his ERA back from outer space where it was sequestered for most of this fall season. Yesterday he worked 2.2 innings, allowed 2 H but nothing else, struck out 1, and brought his ERA down to 8.53, a real accomplishment when it has been as high as 23+ this off-season.
benchwarmer
November 10th, 2010
9:03 am
DS1, Old Moody Blues? Might be better to quote Greg Brown or Leonard Cohen. The Moodys are way irrelevant.
benchwarmer
November 10th, 2010
9:04 am
Swisher is last years wantta have. Move on.
jame baylor
November 10th, 2010
9:06 am
sign maggs, burrell, and resign glaus and hinske ready to go
benchwarmer
November 10th, 2010
9:08 am
No, no, no to Andruw Jones. Way overrated at his peek. Now he has become a slow fielder too.
MikeInFl
November 10th, 2010
9:11 am
benchwarmer, how can the Moody Blues be irrelevant when they decide which is right, and which is an illusion?
Anders, Swisher’s numbers are pretty consistent with the exception of one off year (’08). They didn’t have to pitch to him Oakland, lol. But, you watch him alot more than I do…
I’m not too worried about LF. We do need someone, preferably a RH or SH, but as long as he doesn’t tank it, it’ll be enough to suit our needs.
jtylerpate
November 10th, 2010
9:12 am
Relevant Q:
What type of manager is Fredi Gonzalez? I’m sure that Wren will look to collaborate with Fredi in regards to forming a team that plays the game how Fredi likes to manage it.
Florida’s teams always had speed. I’m thinking a trade for Jacoby and the signing of Burrell or Magglio and we’re done. I’m sure they will probably like to still sign a veteran bullpen arm to mentor Dunn/Venters/Kimbrel.
Ellsbury (L)
Prado (R)
Chipper (R/L)
Heyward (L)
Burrell/Magg (R)
McCann (L)
Gonzalez (R)
Freeman
Lew
November 10th, 2010
9:15 am
Anders – I might go along with your evaluation of Swisher except for one not so minor point – He’s put up virtually the same numbrs every full year he’s played – even in Oakland and Chicago.
In his worst one season – with the White Sox- he still hit 24 HR and had a league average OBP.
In all 6 seasons he’s never hit less than 21 HR and in 5 of 6, he’s put up OBP’s over .352.
Honestly, he’s been pretty consistent everywhere he’s played.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
9:16 am
And if he’s a pull hitter, he shouldn’t see many less HR’s in Atlanta.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
9:23 am
Lew- In Swishers Oakland years revert to the McLouth model. His post season numbers say the most to me. Anyway. have at him if you like. Personally I’ve watched him play a lot of ball the last two years and I think he’s over rated. Plus he struggles in that postage stamp he covers in right in the Bronx. He’ll be an abomination in the Braves wide open spaces imo.
CB
November 10th, 2010
9:26 am
Actually,considering our payroll restrictions Swisher is not a bad idea. Switchhitter with good power,capable of playing either corner OF or 1b if Freeman needs days off. I like the idea if a decent trade can be worked out.
Insider
November 10th, 2010
9:29 am
Rumors circulating that Kenny Lofton has been working out and is planning to try out this spring for a NL contender. Sources have cited that the Chipper has seen working out with him near Orlando earlier this week.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
9:30 am
Kenny Lofton? Who’s next – Vince Coleman?
DAP
November 10th, 2010
9:32 am
anders, swisher hit well before his stint with the yankees. his talent stands on its own.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
9:33 am
DAP- Care to explain his post season numbers? You know, when the talent rises to the top.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
9:35 am
DAP- or for that matter – what happened to McLouth’s talents that he exhibited in Pittsburgh and then suddenly vanished when he came to the Capital City of the south?
Anders
November 10th, 2010
9:38 am
DAP- Or how about Vasquez’s talents that dissappeared when he dropped into the Bronx -twice! This stuff does matter. These numbers don’t always translate. Occassionally you need to put the charts away and watch the players play the game. At least imo.
Anders
November 10th, 2010
9:47 am
Well, not much going on at the old blog. See you good folks later.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
9:50 am
You’re right Anders – it would be much better if the Braves took Beltran off the Mets’ hands.
Had Swisher been on the Brves last year, they would have been in the NLCS – at the very least and given how the Phillies were shut down, they might well have been in the Series.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
9:51 am
Methinks the Anders doth protest too much.
CB
November 10th, 2010
9:52 am
I see Peter Gammons thinks Ryan Braun will be traded to Red Sox. Peter,really?
NORRIS
November 10th, 2010
9:58 am
Mathers probably wont even make the team. The guy is horrible. Why do people think he is an answer for anything. WHY???? Dont get it.
DAP
November 10th, 2010
9:59 am
anders, yeah ill explain his postseason numbers. its 100 ABs.
mclouth and vazquez have nothing to do with him. those two players have been up and down and inconsistent in their careers. swisher has been relatively consistent, playing for 3 different teams.
low average, lots of Ks, high OBP and good power. thats swisher, always has been.
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
10:00 am
All these OF names being bandied about around the old hot stove……….have any of them performed in the TED? Might be a consideration. Also, how have they performed AGAINST the BRAVES? We don’t want another McLOUTH on our hands.
Russell Bell
November 10th, 2010
10:01 am
I hate to say I agree with Anders… but I don’t see Swisher as a great option.
He’s making $9 mill next year and his contract comes with a $10.25 mill club option for 2012.
That’s not cheap for someone who will require players in come back to the Yankees in a trade. I have yet to read anyone praising his defense either.
So, I’m not exactly sure what type of player Swisher represents, but a streaky bat with power and a mediocre glove seems to be about right. That’s not enough of a player for $9 mill in 2011 plus whatever we have to give up in the trade to acquire him in the first place.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:12 am
NORRIS – Not so sure who you think feels Mather is the answer to anything. From what I’ve seen, the large majority believe he is backup material that, if not injured, might have a bit of power and back up Freeman at 1B.
Now Swisher – I repeat – with him in left last year, puting up his average career numbers, where would the Barves have finished the season? Could it have been as WS champs? Absloutley.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
November 10th, 2010
10:17 am
I’m certainly not saying I would want his defence in LF but what would the reaction be if the Braves got Vlad to play in LF in 2011?
McFann O O
November 10th, 2010
10:19 am
Anybody out there an expert on bugs?
jmart
November 10th, 2010
10:21 am
Of all the options out there and considering payroll limitations I like Posednik. The Braves need to make incremental improvement in key positions without relying totally on our rookies coming up and dominating. Posednik would give the Braves a proven hitter that could leadoff and play center field everyday. He still has enough speed to be a base stealing threat and disrupt the pitcher’s concentration. If a miricle occurs and McClouth finds his swing then Posednik could move over to left field and The Braves would have a very good defensive outfield.
A Posednik move still does not preclude a power hitting left fielder if one happens to be available or falls into FW’s lap.
I am not a big proponent of trading our minor leaguers or any of our current major leaguers (Prado, Minor). I would trade Gonzales if that trade included a good, very fast defensive shortstop, Gonzales appeared to have a very sour attitude, he was just less vocal than Escobar. If the Braves do not shore up their defense (Gonzales was not the answer in that department no matter how many times Cox praised his defense) they will continue to lose crucial games.
The Phillies, like any professional team, are suspect to very good pitching. The Braves have very good pitching and enough bats to score runs. Heyward, unless he reaggravates his thumb, should have a bigger year including substantially more power. Freeman will provide additional power. Posednik could set the table and the Braves could possibly score even more runs than they did last year, without the long periods of 2 runs or less games.
Personally, I think that with one or two strategic moves, not including trading important minor leaugers, the Braves could be on equal footing with the Phillies.
David O'Brien
November 10th, 2010
10:22 am
Anders, what you pointed out at 8:55 a.m., plus the $9 mill salary in 2011 and fact that Braves will have to give up talent to get him in a trade, are all reasons I don’t think Swisher is near the top of the Braves’ list of potential OF bats.
P-Town Brave ©
November 10th, 2010
10:23 am
Crazy-
I think Vlad proved he can no longer play the OF w/o a shadow of a doubt.
GTSteve
November 10th, 2010
10:24 am
@McFann…I have a guy
P-Town Brave ©
November 10th, 2010
10:24 am
DOB-
Any headway on shipping Kawakami back yet?
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
10:24 am
NICK SWISHER has averaged 152 G played since he became a regular in 2006, 531+ AB’s. So he comes to play, no doubt. Roughly 28 HR’s, and .253 BA per. How has he done in the TED?
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
10:27 am
My take on SWISHER:
We’ve got to pay 19 mill plus for two AND give up talent for a .253 hitter? Plueeze. Next.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:29 am
It’s unrealistic to believe that the Braves would get Swisher, but he sure would have been one hell of an upgrade in left last year.
David O'Brien
November 10th, 2010
10:29 am
Infante for President: I’m hooked on The Walking Dead after two episodes. Watched first one because it was shot and set in Atlanta, and because so many great scripted shows are on FX and AMC. This is another one. Well made. I just hope they can keep the story line as compelling as its been so far.
McFann O O
November 10th, 2010
10:30 am
GTSteve—
Really? Well…we found a Praying Mantis yesterday, and brought her in the house to keep (we’ve done this sort of thing many times). She’s green, about 3/4 of an inch long, has wings and a yellow stripe down her back, and overnight she laid a whole bunch of little eggs on the side of the jar in which she’s kept. We’ve been Googling, but we cannot find what type of Mantis she is.
If you have any idea, that’d be great!
McFann O O
November 10th, 2010
10:31 am
BTW—The eggs are not in a case like other Praying Mantis eggs are…that’s the weird thing.
DAP
November 10th, 2010
10:32 am
mcfann, maybe they arent eggs. did you feed it mexican food?
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:34 am
An Agnostic Mantis?
P-Town Brave ©
November 10th, 2010
10:34 am
DOB-
Actually watching this show as well…
While I think the market is now oversaturated with zombie flicks and shows, I think this one is very well done so far…
Did not realize it was shot in the ATL though…pretty cool stuff.
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
10:36 am
McFann O O
November 10th, 2010
10:30 am
GTSteve—
Really? Well…we found a Praying Mantis yesterday, and brought her in the house to keep (we’ve done this sort of thing many times). She’s green, about 3/4 of an inch long, has wings and a yellow stripe down her back, and overnight she laid a whole bunch of little eggs on the side of the jar in which she’s kept. We’ve been Googling, but we cannot find what type of Mantis she is.
If you have any idea, that’d be great!
Cool. Don’t know what species she is. Say did you find he mate anywhere?
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:36 am
They just shot a Zombie Flick up here in Central Vermont, too. They’re everywhere.
Ease™ in Sandy Springs
November 10th, 2010
10:36 am
McFann – sure it isn’t a grasshopper? 3/4 inch seems kinda short for a Praying Mantis, and varieties of grasshoppers do have that yellow stripe…
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
10:42 am
Now JACOBY ELLSBURY, that’s interesting. Broken ribs should be O.K. long-term. Probably have to give up a serious arm for him though.
Don
November 10th, 2010
10:44 am
Have the Braves sign JHey to a contract yet? How will this affect payroll? What is he worth?
CraZyTRaDeMaN
November 10th, 2010
10:48 am
Vizciano and Dunn for Ellsbury? That sounds fair to me but the Sox might want more than that.
GTSteve
November 10th, 2010
10:48 am
I’ll ask McFann
David O'Brien
November 10th, 2010
10:50 am
Braves are likely to announce hiring of ex-Orioles manager Dave Trembley as minor league field coordinator by end of week.
N8
November 10th, 2010
10:50 am
“Had Swisher been on the Brves last year, they would have been in the NLCS – at the very least and given how the Phillies were shut down, they might well have been in the Series.” Lew
I’m not following that logic Lew.
For one, would Swisher have played 2B or 3B and made all the plays? Would he have been the umpire at 2B on Posey’s SB that was called incorrectly?
The Giants shut down much better hitters than Nick Swisher during their run to the title. I suppose you could assume, in one of those 3 games we lost he would have hit a big 3-run bomb and that’s that, huh?
But in case you missed it, Swisher when 6 for 34 (.176) with 2 HR and 2 RBI against the Twins & Rangers this past post-season.
Braves needed defense against the Giants and didn’t have any.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:52 am
Don – He’s a 2nd year player. They don’t have to give him anything much more than ML minimum. He has no bargaining power and they likely won’t sign him long term until right before the 2012 season.
N8
November 10th, 2010
10:53 am
How about JJJ for Ellsbury straight up?
We’d be giving up a Boras client who literally did nothing last year to help us win 91 games and would be getting a leadoff hitter/CF for the next few years.
Unfortunately, as much as Braves fans over-value JJJ’s “worth” at this point, not a chance in hell Boston makes that move with JJJ coming off of an injury. Then again, Ellsbury is coming off of an injury season as well. Hmmmmmm?
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:54 am
Nathan – You seriously don’t believe that with Swisher in left instead of the rotating doorway of nothingness that we wouldn’t have done considerably better? Damn, that’s what I consider a lack of logic.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
10:55 am
But I absolutely agree with you about Jurrjens. His trade value is so much lower right now to make him much more valuable to the Braves hoping he comes back to his first two years’ performance.
richbrave
November 10th, 2010
10:56 am
CraZyTRaDeMaN
November 10th, 2010
10:48 am
Vizciano and Dunn for Ellsbury? That sounds fair to me but the Sox might want more than that.
VIZCAINO suspect arm and not solid ML ready. DUNN not top-tier reliefer, but I don’t have anything much to hang that opinion on. Just what little I saw of him last year and how he was used by BOBBY. Maybe he’s not experienced enough ML hitting yet.
No, I suspect they would want someone like TOMMY HANSON and MIKE DUNN. Probably not do-able. But FRANKIE-baby, he’s a magician so anything’s possible I suppose.
joe
November 10th, 2010
10:57 am
Bring back ted turner.
Insider
November 10th, 2010
10:57 am
Heard Ron Gant has realized how bad he was at broadcasting. He has been seen working out with Jason Heyward this week and will look for an invitation to spring training to compete with Mathers for LF position.
No moves are to be expected this offseason. Mathers/Torbert are answers for LF. Braves view hiring of Fredi Gonzalez as big of a Free Agent aquisition as they will need in order to reach playoff’s for 2nd year in a row.
Murph
November 10th, 2010
10:58 am
Too many people giving up on JJ. He’s coming off a bad year, yes, but the kid is only 25 and should be given the opportunity to come back from an injury-plagued season. I would hate to trade him, personally. I don’t know that Minor or Beachy would be able to fill the shoes of a healthy JJ yet.
Scott
November 10th, 2010
10:59 am
DOB…
I know it is just speculation,(in your case it would be educated speculation) but who would you say are the Braves top 5 legitimate targets for OF? And, do you see it as 1 position needing to be filled or 2? I hope you will comment.
I really would like to see Ellsbury. I think he solves a major need in CF and lead-off. I obviously really feel we need a power hitting RH for LF as well, but that would be a lot easier void to fill if Jacoby was roaming CF.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
11:00 am
And we lost three games in the Division series by three runs, so yeah, those two HR and two RBI might have written an entirely different ending to that series. And would he have been the difference in 6-7 regular season games? Could very well be, which might have given us the Division Title and made all the difference in the playoffs. You never know, but what we had out there did diddly.
rrosson3
November 10th, 2010
11:01 am
i like JJ for Ellsbury straight up. I would love to have a legit leadoff hitter but then I would also love to go get Magglio Ordonez at a cheap rate as well to plug into left field. That would drastically change this team and could be done under budget as well. Trevor Hoffman might be a cheap veteran arm out in the bullpen that could mentor the two closers we have in there already.
McFann O O
November 10th, 2010
11:02 am
Thanks, GTSteve!
Lew—
DAP—
Oh, nice…no, they’re definitely eggs…and we’ve only been feeding her flies!
Ease—
Oh, she’s a Praying Mantis, alright—she has the triangle head, the buggle-eyes, and the big front arms in the praying position. But yeah, it’s very tiny—never seen an adult this tiny, but it must be an adult because it laid eggs…
richbrave—
No, we didn’t see the mate…she might have eaten him.
They’re known to do that…
But I wish we had seen him—then we’d have two of these little buggers! Ha, but it was all we could do to get this one in off the kitchen window……
Secretone
November 10th, 2010
11:03 am
BRIAN……Your comments last night were right on….but I’m still a skeptic on Chipper…..I, too, hope he can have another good year. Before last season I was really knocking Pendleton (was right), thought Hutson would fade with an injury (was very wrong), supported Lowe (was right) , wished Diaz was “given” leftfield full time and that Cox had retired a year earlier….(still think I was right). Our GM did well overall. Now, maybe we can add some speed and steal a few bases. Cox seemed to not value this part of the game.
N8
November 10th, 2010
11:04 am
No Lew, I don’t. Seriously. Not trying to be an ass. The Giants foursome of starters and that bullpen shut down much better hitters than Nick Swisher. I suppose he would have made the lineup “deeper”, but ultimately, it wouldn’t have helped Brooks field that ground ball, Posey get called out at 2B, Bobby keep Kimbrel in the game…..
Now I will say this. Had Nick Swisher been a Brave all season, I think they win the NL East and would have had Cincy at home in the NLDS to start the playoffs.
Would that have changed the “path” and destiny of the Giants? Perhaps. But in that series? Swisher would have done nothing.
Josh Hamilton went 2 for 20 against the Giants in the WS with 1 HR and 1 RBI. Michael Young went 5 for 20 with 0 HR and 0 RBI. Ian Kinsler went 3 for 16 with 0 HR and 0 RBI.
I stand by my point. Nick Swisher likely would have done NOTHING against those Giants pitchers if given the opportunity.
Obivously if Posey is called out, there is still the very likely possibility that the Giants still win game 1 in extra innings. But the Braves took game 2. Then Brooks’s glove and Bobby’s bullpen decisions gave them game 3.
Too many people forget that we were one horrible call on that SB and one 9th inning meltdown away from sweeping that team. And in my opinion, there isn’t anything Nick Swisher could have (and would have) done to change that.
DAP
November 10th, 2010
11:04 am
richbrave No, I suspect they would want someone like TOMMY HANSON and MIKE DUNN
no, the redsox arent that unreasonable. they know a player like ellsbury isnt worth that. now, if he hit 25 homers a year, then that might be the case, but thats not the kind of player ellsbury is.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
11:05 am
Murph – It’s not a case of giving up on Jurrjens, it’;s a matter of everyone overvaluing him after an injury plagued season. We wouldn’t be trading the Dude who won 14 with a sub 3 ERA, we’d be trading a pitcher with three spearate injuries whose ERA jumped two runs per game.
Yeah, it was likely because of the injuries, but it severely reduces his trade valkue until he proves he IS back. Better to hope he does and we benefit from the numbers he puts up.
Trade him next year after he reverts to form.
Churchy
November 10th, 2010
11:06 am
Funny how the “what have you done recently” pans out.
After last season, Javy Vasquez was the best thing in the world and D.Lowe should have been traded.
After this season, Jurjens is the guy that should be traded and since Lowe’s late season and playoff performances, people are silent about him.
Scott
November 10th, 2010
11:06 am
rrosson3
My thoughts exactly. Ellsbury allows you to take a chance on a re-tread of sort for LF. Keep McLouth on the bench along with Hinske and Diaz and you have other options for left if needed.
Lew
November 10th, 2010
11:09 am
Nathan – You don’t know he would have done nothing, but even two RBI would have been an immense diffrence – could have helped us to win two more games, whch would have given us the series. We were so damned close, even with all the problems, that even his pitiful numbers would have helped. Two RBI could have – at the very least – given us a tie and a chance in extra innings, and considering we were at home for two of those games, I like our comeback possibilities – our strength.
We’ll never know. We had Nate and Melky.
Murph
November 10th, 2010
11:11 am
If JJ does indeed revert to form… then why trade him? JJ at the top of his game is a force to be reckoned with.
The team controls him through the 2013 season. Get the most out of him while they can, before he hits FA and will no longer be affordable (Boras client).
Jay212033
November 10th, 2010
11:13 am
richbrave, Hanson and Dunn for Ellsbury?! There is NO WAY the Braves would be that stupid for an injury prone guy!