Francoeur in World Series, Chipper’s rehab update, etc.

A few loose and semi-cohesive thoughts while wondering what it means that Jeff Francoeur will be the first of the so-called “Baby Braves” – nickname we always abhorred – to play in a World Series.

We’ve got a little news on Chipper Jones and Freddie Freeman, but first….

Yes, the ex-Braves right fielder from Parkview High is going to the Fall Classic with the Texas Rangers, where Francoeur will become the first of the 18 rookies from the 2005 Braves to play in a World Series.

The other rookies from that ‘05 team: Brian McCann, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Langerhans, Wilson Betemit, Pete Orr, Brayan Pena, Andy Marte, Kyle Davies, Roman Colon, Blaine Boyer, Macay McBride, Anthony Lerew, Chuck James, Joey Devine, Jorge Vasquez, Matt Childers and Frank Brooks.

There wasn't a full-time right fielder in the majors with a lower OPS than Jeff Francoeur in 2010, but he's headed to the World Series, something than no other member of the 2005 "Baby Braves" has done.

There wasn't a full-time right fielder in the majors with a lower OPS than Jeff Francoeur in 2010, but he's headed to the World Series, something than no other member of the 2005 "Baby Braves" has done.

(For those who might be wondering, the last three guys on that list were pitchers who’ve never been in another major league game since that season.)

Francoeur, playing with his third team in 17 months, is headed to the World Series with the Rangers, who are also making their franchise-first appearance in the Series. Nevermind that Francoeur ranked last in OPS (.683) out of the 25 major league right fielders who had at least 400 plate appearances in 2010.

Frenchy’s got a chance to earn a World Series ring, and that’s big stuff.

The Rangers are facing the Giants, who keep surprising some out there who didn’t believe San Francisco’s pitching could perform against the Phillies like it did against Atlanta in the division series. It came reasonably close.

For some Braves fans, the Giants’ NLCS win was a painful reminder of what might have been. The injury-diminished Braves played the Giants to one-run outcomes in all four division-series games, but lost three of them.

The Giants limited the Phillies to 20 runs in six games in the NLCS, including two runs in the bandbox Philly ballpark in the clinching Game 6 (the Giants have clinched both of their series on the road).

And so, while we await for the Braves to hire a hitting coach and for the postseason to end so the hot stove can be fired up, let’s consider what should be a refreshing World Series.

It’s a series without those tired storylines – Jeter, Rivera, Victorino, Utley, Howard (who’s lasting image, at least for the foreseeable future, will be standing in the box with bat on shoulder looking at a breaking ball, like Carlos Beltran against Adam Wainwright in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS).

Before I give you my prediction and ask what you think, let’s look at what some guys said in response to my e-mails, texts, DMs and calls on Sunday when I sought some predictions from Braves past and present, plus a few other notables, including a Hall of Famer and a couple of rockers:

– Chipper Jones: Texas in five

– Tom Glavine: Texas in six

– Andre Dawson: Texas in six

– Derrek Lee: Texas in seven

– Kris Medlen: Texas in six

– Derek Lowe: “I don’t bet; rule 18-6″

– Will Ohman: San Francisco in six; “The misfits will prevail.”

From the musicians:

– Jason Isbell: “I’m calling ‘Frisco in 6.”

Former Drive-By Trucker Isbell is picking the Giants.

Former Drive-By Trucker Isbell is picking the Giants.

– Langhorne Slim (via Isbell, who’s currently on tour with Slim): “Langhorne agreed with me. SF in 6. I think he’s pi$#ed about the Phillies losing.”

– Matty McLoughlin, guitarist for The Soft Pack (and former Univ. of Richmond pitcher): “The Giants in 6. Lincecum, Cain, and Sanchez are tough. I think Pablo Sandoval is going to do something big.”

– Will Johnson, singer-guitarist of Centro-Matic and  Monsters of Folk, noted baseball expert among rock ‘n’ roll crowd, and Austin resident:  “Texas in 6.”

– Matt Lamkin, vocalist/guitar for The Soft Pack: “Texas Rangers in 7 — I believe in Ron Washington.”

As for me, I’m thinking along the lines of colorful lefty and few of the rock guys: I’m taking the Giants, but this series is going the distance. Giants in seven.

♣ Chipper update: Hoss kept it brief when I asked him in a text about whether his knee-surgery rehab is on schedule and a spring-training return is still the target. “Yep,” he said in a one-word text reply.

And with that, he was going back to watching his beloved Steelers beat the Dolphins.

Who is going to win the World Series?

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♣ Freeman’s thumb: It’s still sore and swollen, so Freddie flew back to Atlanta on Monday to have hit examined by the Braves’ hand specialist.

Don’t be alarmed, folks. The MRI last week was good, showed no torn ligament or other such structural damage. GM Frank Wren said it would be shut down for at least a week in the Arizona Fall League, and that’s how long it’s been.

The impression I got was that the Braves were flying him back primarily to give Freeman peace of mind, because he was a bit concerned that the thumb was still sore after a week of rest.

But those who are familiar with thumb injuries know it’s not at all uncommon for them to take at least a couple of weeks for swelling to go down.

Freeman is important enough to the Braves, however, that it’s worth it for all concerned to have him be reassured about the status of his thumb and not worry too much that it’s not feeling good a week after he hurt it Oct. 18 sliding into third base on a triple in an AFL game.

♣ Colby Rasmus is good: And yes, the Cardinals center fielder would be a great fit for the Braves, who want to make a significant upgrade this winter in either center field or left field (they can move Nate McLouth to left field).

Colby Rasmus led all major league center fielders in OPS in 2010, his second season in the majors.

Colby Rasmus led all major league center fielders with an .859 OPS in 2010, his second season in the majors.

Other than being another left-handed hitter, Rasmus is absolutely a perfect fit for the Braves’ needs. And believe me, they won’t let his left-handedness stand in the way of acquiring him, if they can.

Rasmus, whose younger brother, Cory, is a pitcher in the Braves minor league system, and has told friends he’d love to play for the Braves. He’s an Alabama boy born across the border in Columbus, Ga., same as Tim Hudson.

Rasmus is only 24 years old, still a year away from arbitration and four years from free agency. He’s very affordable and a terrific player whose .859 OPS was the highest among the 26 major league center fielders who had at least 400 plate appearances.

Rasmus hit .276 with 23 homers and a .361 OBP in 144 games for the Cardinals, after hitting .251 with 16 homers, a .307 OBP and .714 OPS in 147 games as a rookie in 2009.

He’s a legit five-tool player, and his .810 OPS vs. lefties in 2010 was only 65 points below his OPS vs. righties. On the road, Rasmus hit .306 with a .947 OPS.

So why on earth would the Cardinals trade him?

Mostly, the speculation he could be moved is tied to a reported bad relationship between Rasmus and manager Tony La Russa, or between Rasmus’ father and La Russa. They don’t agree on some things, let’s put it that way.

That said, the Cardinals know that La Russa might manage only one more season, and Rasmus could help them for a lot longer than that.

For a St. Louis team that’s trying to upgrade its middle infield, sign Jake Westbrook and re-sign The Franchise, Albert Pujols, the money the Cardinals could save with Rasmus in center field for the next several years is a significant thing.

All that’s our way of getting to the point: It’s going to cost a lot to pry him from St. Louis. The Cardinals will have teams lining up with offers if they make it known Rasmus is available.

What would it take for the Braves to get him? Start with a package that might include future closer Craig Kimbrel, and perhaps pitching prospect Arodys Vizcaino as well. Or the Cardinals could look to upgrade their infield by asking the Braves for a package that includes Martin Prado (they’d still probably want a top young pitcher in an expanded type of deal like that).

♣ Kawakami rumors: The Braves have received interest in Kenshin Kawakami from multiple Japanese League teams (between two and five, depending on whom you believe).

Kawakami was a highly accomplished pitcher in Japan, and could be headed back there soon.

Kawakami was a highly accomplished pitcher in Japan, and could be headed back there soon.

The Yomiuri Giants and Nippon Ham Fighters are reportedly interested, and I’m told that the Giants — better known as the Tokyo Giants — and Hanshin Tigers are the teams that would be most able to absorb some of the nearly $7 million that Kawakami is owed in the final year of his contract.

Hanshin needs a pitcher, plus the Tigers were interested in Kawakami when he was a free agent, and the team president visited Turner Field in the past year.

However, Hanshin has also contacted the agent for Hiroki Kuroda, who was 11-13 with a 3.39 ERA in 2010 for the Dodgers. That’s quite a bit more impressive than Kawakami’s 1-10 record and 5.15 ERA in 2010 for the Braves, in the second season of a three-year, $23 million contract with Atlanta.

The Braves would probably have to pay all of Kawakami’s remaining contract and work out an agreement with a Japanese team to reimburse them for a portion of the amount. It seems the likely outcome, since the Braves have made it clear they’re trying to unload him this winter.

OK, let’s get this posted and get back to gathering wood for the Hot Stove.

Saw some serious acting by Edward Norton and Robert DeNiro in the movie Stone last week. Very good movie. Not great like The Social Network, Winter’s Bone or a couple others this year, but very good (saw The Town recently, that’s close to great). Want to see the John Lennon movie, Nowhere Boy, this week

Let’s close with a classic from the Velvet Underground, which the multi-talented Elizabeth Cook covers superbly. She sang it last week at Eddie’s. Here’s a video of the original Velvets version and here’s Ms. Cook doing it.

You probably know what Lou and the Velvets look like, so here's a photo of Elizabeth Cook.

You probably know what Lou and the Velvets look like, so here's a photo of Elizabeth Cook.

“SUNDAY MORNING” by Lou Reed, John Cale

Sunday morning

praise the dawning

It’s just a restless feeling by my side

Early dawning

Sunday morning

It’s just the wasted years so close behind

Watch out the world’s behind you

There’s always someone around you who will call

It’s nothing at all

Sunday morning

And I’m falling

I’ve got a feeling I don’t want to know

Early dawning

Sunday morning

It’s all the streets you crossed, not so long ago

Watch out the world’s behind you

There’s always someone around you who will call

It’s nothing at all

Sunday morning

Sunday morning

Sunday morning

3,230 comments Add your comment

DAP

October 25th, 2010
2:56 pm

playoffs!!! [rasmus is] Not even being considered by the Braves for the above reason.

if thats true, they are complete idiots.

If you don’t understand why it’s not good to have 4 leftys in your starting lineup–then you don’t fully understand baseball

im speechless here. the way you put that makes me think you are the most clueless person ive ever dealt with when it comes to a batting lineup.

chris

October 25th, 2010
2:59 pm

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
2:59 pm

I’d be interested to find out how DOB feels about the above issue

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
3:00 pm

Great blog…appreciate all the updates, DOB.

My guess is Rangers in 6. :lol: at Lowe’s response

N8

October 25th, 2010
3:04 pm

I’m late to the party as usual. So here’s a copy of my last post at the end of the old blog, for those who care:

“It’s beyond me why anyone would think he should or would be an option for the Braves, who are trying to make a sharp upgrade in left field or center field” DOB

While for the most part I agree with you. Same goes for the Andruw conversation some of us had last week. But here’s the thing. YES, we already have a RF. But here’s what our LF did for us last year:

14 HR, 83 RBI .242/.302/.385/.687 in 621 AB

In the same breath, here’s what Jeff did in almost 200 fewer AB:

13 HR, 65 RBI 249/.300/.383/.683 and likely would play considerably better defense than anybody we trolled out into LF last year.

Not saying he’s THE answer. But if Wren can’t swing a trade or use some of the freed up money on a better option. A guy like Jeff or Andruw wouldn’t be horrible options in LF, provided Wren realy upgrades CF.

If Nate McLouth is going to be the everyday CF going into next year, then yeah…. totally agree. Wren needs a massive upgrade in LF.

To me it’s all relative to what we got out of LF using 3 or 4 various options last year. If a guy like Jeff could get 500 AB and allow Wren to not take up 4 roster spots to cover LF…. why not?

I don’t want a guy like Jeff or Andruw as the “prize” acquisition this off-season, and certainly wouldn’t want either of them batting cleanup. But if Wren put all of his eggs in the CF basket (via trade or spending all is cash on a free agent like Wereth – never going to happen), then one of those guys would be a decent option as a #7 or #8 hitter and a fairly good defensive upgrade in LF.

Don’t you think?

Myself? I’d rather have Wren make two trades or free agent signings for two 6-7 million dollar guys in LF and CF, then have him spend 15 million on a CF (or LF) and then go cheap at the other position.

But for some reason, I see him spending big on one spot and going with a Loaf type of player for the other. I could be wrong though. It’s happened before.

McFann O O – 6

October 25th, 2010
3:04 pm

Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!

Hoss kept it brief when I asked him in a text about whether his knee-surgery rehab is on schedule and a spring-training return is still the target. “Yep,” he said in a one-word text reply.

:lol: Chipper…

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
3:04 pm

I’m with you DOB on Rasmus. It’d take what you mentioned to get him, but he is perfect for what we need, or a ton of teams out there need.

DAP

October 25th, 2010
3:05 pm

playoffs!!!

from DOB’s blog: And believe me, they won’t let his left-handedness stand in the way of acquiring him, if they can.

so there you go. good news, the braves’ front office aren’t morons.

Rob1855

October 25th, 2010
3:06 pm

What? No predictions from Patterson or Cooley?

OptimisticInTexas

October 25th, 2010
3:08 pm

Texas in 6, but those Giants have surprised me all the way….

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
3:08 pm

I just don’t get how someone who showed so much talent and potential like Francoeur could have nose dived like he did. Keep in mind that as recently as early last season, he was still considered to be pretty useful. _ jeffery d

The was I recall it jeffery is, at that time everyone hoped he could figure it out and become useful.

Think about it, what was the theme in spring training in 09. Francoeur had been working with a new hitting coach hoping to solve his 08 problems. Lets face it, he stinks on ice.

McFann O O – 6

October 25th, 2010
3:08 pm

DOB Saw some serious acting by Ed Norton

Hey, I watched something with Ed Norton, too, last night! I…What? Oh…oh that Ed Norton…

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
3:09 pm

I wouldn’t give up Prado for Rasmus. I understand you gotta give something to get something, but you can’t get rid of your best right-handed hitter for a lefty in an already lefty-heavy lineup.

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
3:09 pm

You wouldn’t trade Prado. You’re tyring to beef up your offense, so you don’t trade one of your best hitters to get offense. You wouldn’t trade your future closer unless somebody else in the pipeline is ready or close to ready. Venters is too erractic for me as a closer. I also wouldn’t trade that Teheran kid. Looks like a future ace.

I’m picky, but smart. Too bad I have no say so in sh**.

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
3:11 pm

Oh God … DOB having Frenchy headline his blog gives too many ammunition to talk non stop about the Stench Man.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
3:11 pm

Francoeur had been working with a new hitting coach hoping to solve his 08 problems

Whoops…I’m sorry, I mixed up my Jeff Francoeur seasons. I forgot he was awful in ‘08. I was thinking he hit over .290 in 2008 and hit almost 30 HR in 2007, but that was ‘07 and ‘06.

giants_fan_in_ATL

October 25th, 2010
3:11 pm

Enter your comments here

Danga

October 25th, 2010
3:12 pm

A guy like Jeff or Andruw wouldn’t be horrible options in LF

If we can agree that what we got out of LF was horrible last season, then stamping a new name on it doesn’t make it less horrible.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
3:12 pm

Well, I guess I know how DOB feels now, after reading the new blog. But I don’t agree. We would see every left-handed pitcher around coming out of the woodwork to pitch against us, especially relief pitching.
All the lefty pitching would really hurt Heyward’s numbers, McCann’s power and Freeman’s development. Plus the Braves are also going to give McClouth a chance to redeem himself.
Did you see how the Giants lefthanded pitchers nuetralized Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Raul Ibanez in the playoffs? And they only have 3 lefty starters.
Not a good idea to be so lefty heavy

giants_fan_in_ATL

October 25th, 2010
3:12 pm

all that money spent to try to buy a championship, and phillies don’t even get the pennant!

BYE BYE, Philadelphia Phillies!

ChillyMutt

October 25th, 2010
3:12 pm

I don’t see us giving up Prado for Rasmus and if we do that just opens another glaring hole in the infield. I know – or at least hope and believe that we have seen the last of Brooks Conrad as an everyday player.

Mike Berry

October 25th, 2010
3:12 pm

Hey Dave…an ESPN guy named Adam Rubin on Twitter says that he is trying to confirm that Don Baylor has excepted the hitting coach job for the Colorado Rockies. DANG IT!!!

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
3:13 pm

DOB

Do you really see the Braves trading Craig Kimbrel?

CraZyTraDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
3:13 pm

Infante, Vizcaino, Beachy and Dunn for Rasmus. Would that get it done?

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
3:13 pm

I wouldn’t give up Prado for Rasmus.

O’Brien gave me one of those “Are you kidding?”s a few months back when I suggested that Prado might be one of the few real value-for-value pieces in an offseason trade for a bat (I also mentioned Escobar as a possibility, but I don’t think David really cared about that much, LOL).

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
3:13 pm

They just named Carney Lansford the hitting coach

N8

October 25th, 2010
3:14 pm

As sad as this sounds, if it took one of Kimbrel or Prado to get Rasmus, I’d part with Prado first. Infante could be the everyday 2B until Hicks is ready to man one of the infield spots (or somebody else).

But damn. We all saw what happened to the lineup without Prado in it. It would almost require Chipper to return to form next year for the loss to not be so harsh. At the same time, Infante is a good hitter (and a fine leadoff candidate), plays decent enough defense at 2B and face it. Our outfield was putrid last year.

As for the LH bats? Doesn’t bother me that much. Either guys can hit or they can’t. Way more RHP to face anyhow during the season. But might require Wren to find a REALLY good RH option off the bench come late innings and playoff time.

But I think it’s a must for Kimbrel and Venters to be a 2 headed monster in that bullpen next year with Wagner leaving. The 5-pack of guys (Kimbrel, Venters, Dunn, Moylan and O’Flaherty) is as good as anybody’s bullpen out there, even without Wagner finishing it off.

Don’t break that young group up Frank. Unless the intention would be to temporarily have Teheran start at AAA and come up in June and pitch out of the bullpen (like Wainwright for the Cards) with the intent on eventually moving him back to the rotation (duh). Then I suppose a guy like Kimbrel could be expendable (short term), to get a guy like Rasmus under control for 4 more years.

Tough choices ahead for Wren on the trade front. Should be fun.

The Bream Team

October 25th, 2010
3:15 pm

Trading Kimbrel, Vizcaino, or Prado is not part of the solution to make the Braves better.

MikeInFl

October 25th, 2010
3:15 pm

I would trade Kimbrel and Vizcaino for Rasmus. Absolutely.

DAP

October 25th, 2010
3:17 pm

crazytrademan Infante, Vizcaino, Beachy and Dunn for Rasmus. Would that get it done?

it probbaly wold, except vizcaino is hurt right now and probably not tradable. plug in delgado instead, and i bet they think about that one really hard.

the thing about the cardinals, is that they need alot, and their budget is really thin. if they can turn one affordable player into several affordable guys that can help right away, i think they do it.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
3:17 pm

Trading Kimbrel, Vizcaino, or Prado is not part of the solution to make the Braves better.

Well it’s not like we can get anything for McLouth or Kawakami. You’ve gotta give to get

chris

October 25th, 2010
3:18 pm

mikieLnFl- your crazy

Tami

October 25th, 2010
3:19 pm

I’m going to wait on my prediction for the WS winner until I see how game 1 is played. BOTH teams — in my mind — are pretty much dead even, and both are capable enough to win this thing. I believe it could go all 7 games, which should work to the NL winner’s favor since the Series begins & could end in a NL park. Having said that, the game 1 winner is usually the Series winner. I want to see who wins and how strong that game 1 winner played before I can say with any confidence who I believe will win it all.

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
3:19 pm

I’ll play GM for a minute and here’s what I might offer up for Rasmus.

Jurrjens, Infante, Delgado.

Take it or leave it.

Puma

October 25th, 2010
3:20 pm

Rasmus looks like he would be a good fit, but if he does have issues with LaRussa, does that mean he has a tude problem in general or is LaRussa just a jerk? (for the record, he looks like a jerk, albeit a very successful jerk)

I think Rangers in 5, unfortunately SF’s magic ends in Texas, plus I can’t stand SF’s closer.

Infante for President

October 25th, 2010
3:21 pm

I just don’t see the Cardinals letting Rasmus get away, and I don’t see the Braves giving up, say, Prado and Vizcaino for him. Too expensive in talent. Plus, St. Louis is not some kind of desperate team. They seem to be trading from a position of strength, so why would they let a superb, young CF go? It’d be like the Braves trading Andruw Jones in ‘97 for a couple of hot young prospects.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
3:21 pm

You’ve gotta give to get

True that. But if you’re trading offensive players, you would like to be sure that the team’s run differential is going to be raised significantly by the player you’re receiving (in the Braves’ situation, anyway). How much better would the team be by adding Player B and subtracting Player A and inserting Player C as A’s replacement? Lots of variables, lots of possible outcomes.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
3:22 pm

Why we would consider trading the right-handed hitting Prado, perhaps our best hitter, to make our lineup more lefty heavy is absolutely absurd.

Tami

October 25th, 2010
3:22 pm

Regarding trade packages for Rasmus: I think the Braves will shoot themselves in the foot if they package their projected 2011 closer prospect for him. And why would anyone ever want Prado packaged into a trade deal??!! Who first of all could play with the spark that Martin plays with? He’s the inspired, emotional go-getter that the team desperately needs. And who is waiting in the wings ready to take his place? No one. Rasmus is a nice idea, but maybe not realistic.

Bobby Hill

October 25th, 2010
3:22 pm

Braves already have a $7 million LF/CF, Nate McLouth. No one is gonna take him of Wren’s hands. It’s too much money to simply release him. Considering the lack of available impact outfielders this winter, and the lack of payroll flexibility, expecting Wren to acquire two starting outfielder this winter is pure fantasy. It’s not going to happen. Maybe, maybe, Wren could swing an impact CF, and sign Frenchy to platoon with McLouth.

DAP

October 25th, 2010
3:22 pm

i dont even consider trading prado, if im frank wren. honestly, i dont consider trading kimbrel either. gonna have to find something else.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:24 pm

Martin Prado………DOB I don’t like those thoughts…..And Craig Kimbrel thats a tough one to swallow, but for Rasmus I think it’s worth it…..

But personally I’d prefer the Braves traded Venters instead of Kimbrel, they basically have the same value, and the Braves already have 2 quality left handers.

Let’s say that the Braves trade Venters, and Vizcaino for Rasmus…….CF will no longer be a concern for a long time……..I think the Braves will have to sign a quality reliever like Kerry Wood(2 yrs 8 million seems fair), and they still need a right handed bat………….Matt Diaz needs to get non-tendered, and the Braves need to acquire somebody in this group:

- Josh Willingham
- Magglio Ordonez

Now that’s a team that just got a whole lot better.

2B Martin Prado
RF Jason Heyward
3B Chipper Jones
C Brian McCann
LF Magglio or Willingham hopefully
CF Colby Rasmus
1B Freddy Freeman
SS Alex Gonzalez

MFin04

October 25th, 2010
3:24 pm

Kimbrel or Prado for Rasmus? Lol. Maybe if they throw in Yadier! :)

Braves aren’t trading either of those guys for a long time.

Danga

October 25th, 2010
3:26 pm

Is Lincecum starting Game 1 for the Giants?

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:26 pm

Venters instead of Kimbrel and I’d do it in a heart beat.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
3:27 pm

Folks, just about any trade that’s worth a bleep, one that actually alters the Braves’ lineup, is going to hurt with its cost. You either are willing to deal with the pain of that transaction for the deferred pleasure, or you are not.

Maybe folks of the latter persuasion should not be allowed to comment on second-tier acquisitions, LOL. Maybe suspend whipping-boy privileges for a week, or like that. :-)

Chief

October 25th, 2010
3:29 pm

Um heck no to giving up Prado or Kimbrel and prospects for Rasmus.

And I wouldn’t consider being traded with 4 weeks left in the regular season, and being the 25th man on said team, much of a championship or accomplishment if the Rangers do win. A ring’s a ring, but it’s not like JF and his .167 playoff average has contributed to the Rangers run.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
3:31 pm

Playoffs!!! and others: I never said the Braves would trade Prado for him, or Kimbrel; I simply told you what the Cardinals would probably ask for. That’s coming from someone in St. Louis who’s got a lot better idea what they’d be looking for than I do. Rasmus is a dynamic talent, a five-tool player who’s not even arb-eligible for another year. Teams will line up with offers for him if he’s available.

I mean, what do some of you think they’re going to ask for from the Braves in return for that kind of young player, Jordan Schafer and Mike Dunn?

Memphis

October 25th, 2010
3:31 pm

I am happy for Jeff. I realize he hasn’t done much, but I root for generally good people, and Jeff Francoeur is one of the classier guys in Major League Baseball. Yes I’m a Braves fan, but as long as he’s not on the Yanks,Phils or Mets. I’ll root for Frenchy.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:32 pm

The two best options out there in the trade market for CF are Matt Kemp, and Colby Rasmus……..Kemp being right handed is a better fit……

Jair Jurrjens and a prospect for Kemp.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
3:32 pm

Tomas–I think Venters is more valuable to us than Kimbrel. Venters already has proved what he can do over a full year, he can pitch more than one inning per appearance, and he’s lefty. Every good lefty is a valuable commodity.

Bobby Hill

October 25th, 2010
3:33 pm

Let’s improve the Braves’ offense by trading away Martin Prado. That seems like a winning strategy.

MFin04

October 25th, 2010
3:33 pm

When did Rasmus become Matt Holliday, Jason Werth or Carl Crawford? My goodness some people are giving up some serious production to get him. His career season averages look like Nate McLouths. Am I missing something here?

Still not giving up a guy like Jurrjens, Infante, Prado or Kimbrel to get him.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
3:34 pm

N8, there are obviously reasons to trade or not trade either Prado or Kimbrel for Rasmus. Prado is the oldest guy of the three so he’s likely going to decline sooner than Kimbrel and Rasmus, but he also makes more of an impact than Kimbrel if Kimbrel is the closer.

Infante is not a viable option as a leadoff hitter, although I think the Braves would be okay with him at secondbase and hitting low in the lineup. Infante doesn’t walk a lot so if batted balls aren’t finding holes, he’s not going to get on base enough and doesn’t have enough power to be extremely valuable. His value is in his ability to fill at several spots without hurting the team. Then again the Rangers are in the Series with Andrus leading off; which gives a strong indication that having enough good hitters is more important than where guys hit in the lineup.

Supes

October 25th, 2010
3:35 pm

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
3:19 pm

I’ll play GM for a minute and here’s what I might offer up for Rasmus.

Jurrjens, Infante, Delgado.

Take it or leave it.

****************************

Wow, some of you are really over valuing Colby’s worth around here, (not just you sir but others before you on the blog)

No way WOULD Wren in his right state of mind offer that.

Jair for Colby straight up is FAIR enough. Jair (when healthy and pitching) could be a top 5 pitcher in the NL. No way am I throwing in our prospects, or our closer of the future as suggested here (insanity) for Colby.

Jair for Colby straight up. Take it or leave it Cards.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
3:36 pm

i dont even consider trading prado, if im frank wren. honestly, i dont consider trading kimbrel either. gonna have to find something else.

I don’t see Wren trading either of those guys. I wouldn’t say they are “untouchable” but they’re as close to it as you can get without staining yourself.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
3:36 pm

OK, DOB-I understand. But I still think four lefty hitting starters in our lineup is a bad idea.

GTSteve

October 25th, 2010
3:37 pm

Do you think the Cards would make the deal for Dunn and JJ….maybe add A or AA outfield prospect

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
3:37 pm

When did Rasmus become Matt Holliday, Jason Werth or Carl Crawford? My goodness some people are giving up some serious production to get him. His career season averages look like Nate McLouths. Am I missing something here? — MFin04

Yes, you’re missing something. Mainly the fact Rasmus has played only two seasons, is still a year away from first-time arbitration eligibility, and led all major league CFs in OPS. Other than that, not much.

N8

October 25th, 2010
3:38 pm

“If we can agree that what we got out of LF was horrible last season, then stamping a new name on it doesn’t make it less horrible.” Danga

Totally agree. But here’s the thing. Let’s assume for a second that McLouth would have had a “2008-like” McLouth season and continued as the leadoff hitter, allowing Prado and later Infante to bat lower in the order….

Would it really have mattered if the LF was below league average? EVERY team has weak spots in the order.

Our LF and CF combined last year for 1327 PA and had 21 HR and 131 RBI. Through the first half of the year, Escobar was MIA. Other than 6 weeks covering May and early June, Glaus was dead weight as well.

That’s 4 of the 8 everyday lineup spots that literally were non-factors.

If Wren filled LF with a guy that hit .250/.325/.400-.450/.700 with 20ish HR and 85 RBI??? But at the same time massively upgraded CF?

Yes, it’s not any less horrible by itself, but with better guys surrounding that spot in the order, wouldn’t be as devistating.

Plenty of Braves teams in the 90’s had dead spots in the order. They just happened to have all-stars at many other spots. With our pitching, this lineup could function consistently with 5-6 really good hitters in the lineup.

There were times early last year, where we were LUCKY to have 2 guys hitting the ball well for more than a week at a time. Add to that, the defense in LF was putrid at best.

How much LF needs to be upgraded, is much more dependant on how much CF is upgraded. If that makes any sense? But that’s why I’d rather see Wren get two guys capable of going .270/.340/.475/.825 with around 15-20 HR, 30-40 doubles, then getting one 40 HR guy and giving LF to Nate. Which certainly would be acceptable if Nate returns to form.

But who honestly thinks that’s going to happen? I’m sorry. But I don’t.

I’ll repeat those numbers, just so they sink in. ALL Braves CF and LF last year:

1172 AB (1327 PA), .237/.312/.363/.675 with 21 HR and 131 RBI

If you simply swap out Rasmus for our CF last year, those totals are:

1085 AB (1219 PA), .256/.325/.433/.758 with 37 HR and 149 RBI.

Add to that, there’s about 100 or so PA missing, since Rasmus didn’t have as many AB/PA as our CF’s combined. So the HR and RBI would likely be a tad higher. (Rasmus played in 144 games).

How many more wins do you think 16 more combined HR from our CF and LF would have been worth last year? 3, 4, 5?

Like I said. Upgrade one of the positions significantly, the other could remain the same and the end results might be better for the team over 162 games. Still need guys to produce come playoff time though.

Also, if you swap Prado for Rasmus, and replace him with Infante, that also cuts down on some power and SLG percentage. So it might be a wash.

Which is why if a guy like Prado is needed as a “chip” to get Rasmus, then Wren better find a better option in LF as well. If Wren chooses to center a package around Kimbrel and Prado stays? I don’t think a HUGE upgrade is needed at both positions (LF and CF), just one.

Our strength will still be the rotation. Just simply have to get a little better (and healthier) in the lineup to add 3-4 victories to our 91 total of 2010.

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
3:39 pm

Honestly I would offer Delgado as the centerpiece for Rasmus. Delgado is a top pitching prospect.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
3:39 pm

MFin04, yes apparently you are missing something. Rasmus has a career OPS+ of 110 and just turned 23 in August. And posted an OPS+ of 132 as a 23-year-old. Nate McLouth didn’t have an above-average offensive season until age 25 and wasn’t noticeably above-average until age 26, and hasn’t been nearly that good since.

I could understand being hesitant to trade Prado and Kimbrel for him. But Jurrjens or Infante? By the way, the Cardinals would never give Rasmus up for Jurrjens or Infante as the centerpieces of a deal because they know how lopsided that trade would be.

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
3:40 pm

A few loose and semi-cohesive thoughts while wondering what it means that Jeff Francoeur will be the first of the so-called “Baby Braves” – nickname we always abhorred – to play in a World Series. _ DOB

What does it mean?

Several more opportunities for RHR to rip him. Enjoy

Forrest Gump was not fiction.

Pl sightings, expressing his irrational Francoeur love.

The baseball gods have a twisted sense of humor.

A larger audience when Jeff inevitably put his foot in his mouth.

Hundreds of bring back Francoeur comments.

Blind squirrel, blind hog, dumb luck and on and on cliches.

DAP

October 25th, 2010
3:40 pm

MFin04 His career season averages look like Nate McLouths. Am I missing something here?

Yes, I believe you are.

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
3:41 pm

The problm with trading Jurrjens is that it leaves us with both Beachy and Minor in the rotation until Teheran is ready.

I still say Delgado, Dunn, Prospect in lower minors for Rasmus.

dpelfrey

October 25th, 2010
3:41 pm

Just keep things in perspective folks. After the 2008 season, most of you would have had the same reaction about trading Kelly Johnson as we’re having now about trading Prado. Kelly struggled in 2009 and lost his job. Bottom line…YOU NEVER KNOW!

Not saying anything, I like Prado and I think he’s a very good ballplayer. But someone else said, you gotta give something to get something. This isn’t like trading on fantasy baseball. The Braves have a very specific need, which limits the possibilities and makes it difficult to pull off anything significant.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:41 pm

Playoffs!!!!, 3 reasons I prefer Kimbrel to Venters for the Braves………..

1. The Braves have Mike Dunn and Eric O’flaherty they can afford to trade Johnny
2. Venters will reach arbitration faster than Kimbrel.
3. And most importantly Kimbrel stuff is more suited for a closer than Johnny’s…….If the season started today I’d bet Kimbrel is the closer.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
3:41 pm

Tomas, you really think the Dodgers would trade 26-year-old Matt Kemp, who’s averaged nearly 25 homers, 30 stolen bases and 90 RBI over the past three seasons, for a pitcher coming off knee surgery and an injury-plagued season, plus a prospect? If so, you must be talking about an absolute premier prospect.

RAnkiel

October 25th, 2010
3:42 pm

Enter your comments here

Supes

October 25th, 2010
3:43 pm

Suggesting trading Venters or Kimbrall or any of our young top prospects like Delgado for Rasmus is going to seriously weaken the Braves strength of young, cheap, impactful pitching for the future.

Suggesting trading Prado (who is probably gonna take over 3B for Chipper when he retires on a permanent basis) is crazy as the Braves have nobody else to man that position and provide considerable production out of it. (Unless you all want Brooks Conrad playing 3B for your Braves in 2012!!!)

Suggesting trading Infate would seriously hamper this team’s ability to sustain ANY injuries and continue going without missing a beat. Think about it…Prado gets hurt…Infante steps up. Or God forbid Alex Gonzalez gets hurt…who is going to play SS? He can play LF, CF…he’s your best all around positional sub player, you can’t afford to lose him in a trade right now.

The person that makes most sense to trade if Jair Jurrgens (not that I want to see him gone, just saying him gone via trade would weaken the Braves THE LEAST) for 2011.

Isn’t that the plan? Improve while dealing someone who when gone you will miss the most in 2011 and in the future?

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
3:44 pm

That’s coming from someone in St. Louis who’s got a lot better idea what they’d be looking for than I do.

This is good info… though if I were to see it copied and pasted back from MLBTradeRumors I’d lend it no credence. I’ve been through the lecture. If it appears on that site, it is false and useless, even if it is merely a link back to a credible source.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:44 pm

Seriosly Rasmus led all mlb CF in OPS…..didn’t know that

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
3:44 pm

Tim Hudson has won the NL Comeback Player of the Year award voted by players (part of the Players Choice Awards)

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 25th, 2010
3:45 pm

Well, it looks as if the Braves have lost out on Don Baylor’s services….*sigh* as this link confirms…

http://taoofsteve.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/10/baylor_to_be_named_hitting_coa.html

Hat Land Dub Raves

October 25th, 2010
3:45 pm

DOB,
That picture is amazing! (I ain’t talking about Kawakami.)

Supes

October 25th, 2010
3:46 pm

I think Wren needs to wait till late into Spring training…show that Jair Jurrgens is healthy and back to 100% and then make a trade using him to acquire LF/CF help.

That’s the best move for the Braves organization without weakening it with another Mark T. type deal…and man it does suck to see Evlis Andrus and Neftali Feliz getting it done for the Rangers….

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:47 pm

BJ Upton is starting to look good, simply because he can run, great defense, and he is right handed with potential pop but a lot of SO’s

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
3:47 pm

Just simply have to get a little better (and healthier) in the lineup to add 3-4 victories to our 91 total of 2010.

Dangerous thinking, nathan. I don’t know if “magical” is a repeatable skill, :-) so I don’t think you can just pencil in those 91 wins again.

Supes

October 25th, 2010
3:47 pm

Tim Hudson has won the NL Comeback Player of the Year award voted by players (part of the Players Choice Awards)

***************************

That’s awesome news. Tim Hudson deserves it. He was the Ace of this team (except for Sept…when Lowe stepped up) Congrats to Huddy!!!

Puma

October 25th, 2010
3:49 pm

I like both Prado and Infante, but I got to think that trading either of them right now would be at the peak of their value, neither one is going to get better than they were last year, especially Infante who is not an everyday player, but an awesome utility guy.

However, someone earlier made the point that we are pretty thin on infield prospects at the moment, so if we were to trade either Prado or Infante, we would just be creating another gaping hole.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
3:50 pm

MFin04, basically McLouth has had 1 all-star-caliber season in the majors, a couple of okay seasons…and that’s it. Rasmus so far in his career, in spite of the fact he just turned 24, has been about as good as McLouth was in his second- and third-best seasons (when McLouth was 25 and 27).

Also, Rasmus has already had a season better than McLouth’s best (on a per-game basis). Rasmus’s OPS in 2010 was .859. McLouth’s in 2008 was .853. Rasmus was 23. McLouth was 26. Age 26 is an age when players’ performances typically peak. Age 23 is about 3 years away from an age when players’ performances typically peak.

If Rasmus’s career looks anything like McLouth’s by the time Rasmus is 28, it would shock every single person in the baseball world.

Churchy

October 25th, 2010
3:50 pm

Back to the Texiera trade. In looking at the players we sent to Texas that are now major contributors for them, it’s hard to swallow.

MFin04

October 25th, 2010
3:51 pm

Oh by all means then we should definitely get Rasmus! 8)

Still wouldn’t trade Prado, Kimbrel or Jurrjens for him. And would hate to lose Infante as well. I just don’t see how trading one good player and a prospect for another good player is a vertical move. Maybe slightly vertical but it depends on who you get to replace the void you’ve created. You also end up giving up a prospect as well. Not to mention with youth there is an unknown factor or the possibility of the guy tanking.

That is one of the benefits of signing a big name high priced free agent. You do have to pay a lot, but it is automatically a vertical move without giving up anything but money.

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 25th, 2010
3:52 pm

Puma – Prado’s going to have better stats than he did this year. Just a gut feelin, and if it wasn’t for him gettin injured late, his presence in the lineup in the post-season would’ve been a BIG lift..not to mention, in the field too.

dpelfrey

October 25th, 2010
3:52 pm

I keep looking at Twins and think there has to be a match there. They have Delmon Young, Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel and Denard Span, plus the speedy prospect Ben Revere. With Morneau coming back, Cuddyer won’t be able to play 1B, so they’re going to have to find a spot for him. Looks a little crowded to me.

Plus if the Red Sox or Yanks sign Crawford, that would probably make a few more guys available.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
3:52 pm

Rob from SC: I doubt the Braves would trade Kimbrel. I think they’d be more inclined to trade one of the starting prospects not named Teheran (and probably not Delgado).

Daybed Wagmoe

October 25th, 2010
3:53 pm

Supes — so, when healthy and pitching, you think that Jurrjens could be considered to be as good as Lincecum, Halladay, Carpenter, and Wainwright (not to mention Hudson, Santana, Hamels, Oswalt, Cain)?

Hillbilly

October 25th, 2010
3:54 pm

Holy Crap! I’d be willing to trade Lou Reed for that girl any day. You can put THAT quote on MLBTR.

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 25th, 2010
3:55 pm

Churchy – Oh wa, wa, wa….*rolls eyes*

Jezzzzus, let’s get over the Tex trade and this, that and the other. It happend over what…2, 3 years ago or so. Get over it. Bad trades happen. Baseball just like life in itself is a risk, but ya never know what’ll happen if you don’t try…..that’s why JS traded for Texieria. It’ didn’t work out. It happens.

GTSteve

October 25th, 2010
3:56 pm

Congrats Huddy

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
3:56 pm

DOB, I actually think Rasmus is tougher to acquire than Kemp, because Kemp is already making 6.95 million and has been criticized for a lack of hustle, etc.

Kemp is also coming from a bad year to his standards………Jair still has value, his injury isn’t that serious, he finished 5th in the CY Young award voting in 2009, now the prospect needs to be an above average prospect but not Teheran, Delgado, or Vizcaino territory.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
3:57 pm

Bat Masterson, the Rangers absolutely will not let Francoeur come up against a righty pitcher in a key situation unless it’s something like the 12th inning and they’ve exhausted all their other options. The Rangers are finally a team that learned how to maximize Francoeur’s skills, using him against lefty pitchers. I’m happy for Francoeur because he seems like a good guy.

Francoeur’s career against lefties: .299/.343/.481
Against righties: .256/.296/.403

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
3:58 pm

Tomas- OK, those are three good reasons. However, of our three lefty reliever, Venters is, by far, the best.

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
3:58 pm

Appreciate the blog DOB, good work.

Churchy

October 25th, 2010
4:01 pm

Frank from KS
Take it easy dude. A few very good players from our minor league system made it big for them. No big deal. It happens. There have been just a handfull of players like that over the years and there are two right there. Screw You!!!

TennBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
4:01 pm

DOB what about trading Infante for Rasmus? I know prospects would have to be involved but I would rather trade Infante than Prado. I see Prado as a batting title candidate for the next 10 years. His only down fall (if you can call it that) is that he plays too hard. Thats why he keeps getting hurt. He may need to learn to dial it down a notch for the sake of remaining healthy for an entire season. I understand he is a hard nosed player and dialing it back is not part of his game.

Murph

October 25th, 2010
4:02 pm

Ok, new plan.

Sign Elizabeth Cook to play CF. She may not hit quite as well as McLouth, but her range in the field is probably about the same and who would you rather watch walk up to the plate and strike out 4 times a game?

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
4:02 pm

Tomas, As much as we love Rasmus and as little as he makes compared to Kemp, Kemp has proven himself and is in his prime. The Dodgers probably have little motivation to trade him unless they are blown away. But the Cardinals would probably give up Rasmus for the right price; they probably wouldn’t have to be as blown away quite to the degree the Dodgers would.

Murph

October 25th, 2010
4:04 pm

I really like Kimbrel. The kid is going to be an absolute lights-out closer. But… closers aren’t exactly the Hope Diamonds of the league. If trading Kimbrel means the team gets Rasmus, I say do it. Venters might not be as dynamic, but he’d get the job done.

wjones

October 25th, 2010
4:04 pm

“Shaun

October 25th, 2010
3:34 pm
N8, there are obviously reasons to trade or not trade either Prado or Kimbrel for Rasmus. Prado is the oldest guy of the three so he’s likely going to decline sooner than Kimbrel and Rasmus, but he also makes more of an impact than Kimbrel if Kimbrel is the closer.

Infante is not a viable option as a leadoff hitter, although I think the Braves would be okay with him at secondbase and hitting low in the lineup. Infante doesn’t walk a lot so if batted balls aren’t finding holes, he’s not going to get on base enough and doesn’t have enough power to be extremely valuable. His value is in his ability to fill at several spots without hurting the team. Then again the Rangers are in the Series with Andrus leading off; which gives a strong indication that having enough good hitters is more important than where guys hit in the lineup.”

UM…..I hate to break the news to you, but Infante spent a considerable amount of time in the leadoff spot THIS SEASON, a season in which they won 90 games. And to counter that Infante had some kind of a fluke year, as the years go by it becomes increasingly hard to make that argument stick, as he has been with the Braves for three years now and has hit over .300 each year. He did show some increased power this year, as this was his first year with the Braves that he didn’t have to fight off a broken hand. You described him as some .250 hitter who might hit 2 or 3 homers. I do think Infante has enough speed to steal more bases, if someone would/could work with him, and just the threat would make a difference for us.

Supes

October 25th, 2010
4:04 pm

Supes — so, when healthy and pitching, you think that Jurrjens could be considered to be as good as Lincecum, Halladay, Carpenter, and Wainwright (not to mention Hudson, Santana, Hamels, Oswalt, Cain)?

******************************************

Jair Jurrjens in 2009 when healthy pitched 215 innings went 14-10 (with a crappy run support) while posting an ERA of 2.60 in 34 games and had a WAR of 3.8 I’d say that’s PRETTY CLOSE!

Dumbo

October 25th, 2010
4:05 pm

Damn…DOB been a long time since I even heard the name Lou Reed , much less JJ Cale….we must be showing the age on this one

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
4:07 pm

What, no love for Matt Harrison and Beau Jones, LOL? Or even the centerpiece of that trade, Jarrod Saltalamacchia?

So, two pieces of that trade actually made it to the bigs, two YEARS after the trade, and people still think it was a bust? Wowsah yowsah. Braveheart needs to revisit the primer on the value of present wins and future wins, I think.

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 25th, 2010
4:07 pm

Churchy – Ehhhhh…think I’ll pass…tyvm!!!

Joe Simpson the Great

October 25th, 2010
4:08 pm

I would rather have Craig Kimbrel than Colby Rasmus any day. Plug the hitting holes as best you can without giving up young pitching. I could not live with another season of Bob Wickman’ss and Dan Kolb’s not saving games. I would say Venters and Kimbrel are untouchable.

myra

October 25th, 2010
4:09 pm

Congrats to Francoeur and family. Its truly heaven sent for him to get this chance. Unfortunately,we didn’t have enough offense to let him be just the player he is. A natural athlete. He tried/ended up in situations where he needed to be huge and whiffed.
The Texas Rangers ARE the New model for baseball. Young and fast. No more roided hitters and no more OLD guys getting bet
However, we are now in a similar predicament as when the Tex deal went down: lots of pitching prospects and no hitters coming up. Its gonna b interesting to see. We must get power. And yet,we went and got power in TEXIERA and those boys we sent away are now going to the World Series.
It just the motha of irony.
CF. The question of 2011. CF?

GTSteve

October 25th, 2010
4:09 pm

I am with you on the 4:02 Murph

Daybed Wagmoe

October 25th, 2010
4:09 pm

TennBravesFan — I think that you answered your own question. Don’t you think that St. Louis might also view Prado as a batting title candidate over the next 10 years? So, then, why would they not be interested in trading for him?

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 25th, 2010
4:09 pm

Wonders how people like Churchy would’ve felt if the McGriff trade hadn’t worked out..(LOL).

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
4:09 pm

I’m happy for Francoeur because he seems like a good guy. _ Shaun

Maybe he is a good guy. None the less, he’s the guy that was un-coachable, claimed the Braves had soured their relationship with him when they sent him down to work on his swing. Ripped the Braves when they traded him to the Mets, demanded a trade from the Mets, then ripped them when they obliged. A matter of perspective I suppose.

Bill

October 25th, 2010
4:10 pm

Frenchy is one lucky kid..backed into WS because Mets didn’t want him. I do wish him the best..

Giants in 7…I always pull for NL but happy for Rangers.

Rasmus he!! yes if we don’t have to give away the farm….etc

Greg Walker for hitting Coach but thats my opinion. He is one great teacher and coach. I’ve know him for 20 plus years and worked with him awhile …super all around.

Thanks for new post DOB.

RAnkiel

October 25th, 2010
4:10 pm

But… closers aren’t exactly the Hope Diamonds of the league. If trading Kimbrel means the team gets Rasmus, I say do it.

That’s what they all say until you get stuck with Bob Wickman or Dan Kolb! I wouldn’t trade Kimbrel or Venters period.

Rufio

October 25th, 2010
4:10 pm

I still wish the Braves had not given up on Jeff so early. Personally, I think Jeff made a huge mistake by not taking the package the Braves offered him that was similar to Mccann. Since then he has been trying to prove everyone wrong or showing them that he was a superstar that deserved more money. You can track his decline to that moment. Also, going behind the organizations back to the get help from the then Texas Hitting coach was the last straw.

I hope he has a great World Series and that will get him back on track. I still would love to see him in a Braves uniform again. It was nothing but a pleasure watching him play football for Parkview. If baseball does not work out the Falcons can always use some help in the secondary.

Shinnbone

October 25th, 2010
4:11 pm

DOB, just for clarification and info: Yomiuri is the official name of the team that is often referred to as the “Tokyo” Giants in English. The team is owned by Yoiuri Newspapers, and the official name is the “Yomiuri Giants.” And “Nippon Ham Fighters” is a team owned by a company called Nippon Ham. I’ve seen them called “the Ham Fighters” in English several times, but technically it is not correct. Although I do although I like the sound of that.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
4:13 pm

I think Jeff made a huge mistake by not taking the package the Braves offered him that was similar to Mccann.

We all bashed the guy for not taking the deal back when it happened! Boy I’m so glad his arrogance took over or we would be stuck with him right now.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
4:13 pm

seen them called “the Ham Fighters” in English several times

For some reason, a very odd synapse fires and cranks up “Kung Fu Fighting” whenever I see that. :-)

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
4:14 pm

↑↑↑ forgot to change my name RAnkiel is me ↑↑↑

justafan

October 25th, 2010
4:14 pm

Don’t trade Kimbrel period. Remember Wainwright?

The A Bomb

October 25th, 2010
4:16 pm

Here goes the Kemp talk again….

I’m glad I have followers. First mentioned it 2 months ago. Jurrjens in a package for Kemp. Hoover, Marek etc… Dodgers still need a starter.

If we deal Venters or Kimbrel we are idiots. If we deal anything but Jurrjens or prospects not named Teheran we are idiots. If we trade ANY of our guys who actually produce on offense we are idiots.

And as far as Rasmus goes, he is lefthanded. Who cares if he is from Georgia. He is NOT an offensive fit — Kemp is.

But of course I’ve been saying that since the end of August. Kemp is a monster ready to be unleashed.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
4:16 pm

TennBravesFan, no way Infante could be the centerpiece. The Braves would have to give up at least one top 2-3 prospect and maybe more if Infante is in the deal.

Infante is 28 and has a career OPS+ of 90. Rasmus is 24 and has a career OPS+ of 110. No way you trade a 24-year-old that has been 10 percent more productive than a league-average hitter for a 28-year-old who has been 10 percent worse than a league-average hitter for his career. Yes, there is a decent chance Infante is at least a little better than that for at least another year or two but the point is that it would still be a lopsided deal unless the Braves threw in some of their top prospects.

justafan

October 25th, 2010
4:16 pm

Yes, glad Frenchy is gone for- ever!

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
4:17 pm

First of all, is their any indication they Cards are looking to deal Rasmus. Don’t think so. They’d be better served with patching up his relationship with LaRussa. And DOB said he has pre-arb year left, plus, what, 4 yrs before free agency. Cards need to make it work.
Secondly, we don’t have anything to offer the Cardinals that wouldn’t hurt us as much as Rasmus supposedly would help us.
And lastly, all those lefty bats in the lineup at one time. Y’all vastly downplay the signifcance of that (esp. to our other lefty hitters)

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
4:18 pm

Shinnbone, thanks much

Bobby Hill

October 25th, 2010
4:20 pm

The attrition rate for even blue chip prospects is pretty high. The odds that all three of the Braves big three pitching prospects turn into legitimate MLB’ers is pretty low. There’s something to be said for trading prospects when their value is highest. For every Elvis Andrus, and Adam Wainwright, there’s two guys like Salty, Flowers, Lillibridge, Marte, Harrison, etc.

m

October 25th, 2010
4:21 pm

Thank god and greyhound that Bobby Cox is gone.

dap01

October 25th, 2010
4:21 pm

I am tired of hearing about Jeff Failcour. I am a Braves fan.

Crockett

October 25th, 2010
4:21 pm

I have a hard time believing the Braves will give up a bigtime pitching prospect like Teheran or young emerging pitcher like Jair or Hanson to the Cardinals for Rasmus.

After watching Wainright become a stud in a Cards uniform the last 5 years, I think with Braves would inevatibly be more cautious with the Cardinals than any other team in terms of giving away young pitching.

Couch Tater

October 25th, 2010
4:22 pm

The turf war has left a high body count. The latest casualty was Cards bullpen coach Marty Mason, an outspoken critic of the Jeff Luhnow Camp.

The battle has been raging for years. Former general manager Walt Jocketty opposed Luhnow’s ascension to player development czar midway through the previous decade, since it came at the expense of Walt’s guys.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/article_ccf3070c-dbb0-11df-b27c-0017a4a78c22.html

Rasmus ia a Luhnow pick. I think he remains a Card.

Texas in 6.

Francoeur’ ring will sparkle on the HD, when he becomes a storied analyst like Joe Morgan, Tim McCarver, Rob Dibble…

Puma

October 25th, 2010
4:22 pm

To those that brought up Wickman and Kolb…thanks a lot, I am going to have nightmares tonight.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
4:24 pm

Rasmus is 24 and has a career OPS+ of 110.

Yeah, Shaun, but what was his minor league K/BB ratio, LOL?

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
4:25 pm

Puma
Glad I could help!!!!

Churchy

October 25th, 2010
4:25 pm

Churchy wouldn’t have cared if the McGriff trade didn’t work out because nobody we traded in that amounted to anything.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
4:26 pm

Rufio, Francoeur didn’t so much have a decline as much as he was misread by a couple of organizations. He was never a disciplined hitter who controlled the strikezone and this was apparent from the moment he was drafted. This continued even as he was posting 100-RBI seasons, but everyone was enthralled with his RBI totals and ignored how often he made outs, especially against right-handed pitchers.

Francoeur played everyday and was more or less the face of the franchise, or at least one of them. When people that are supposed to be smarter than you are acting for 2-3 years as if you are great when you are merely useful against lefty pitching, how are you supposed to react when they all of the sudden want you to go to the minors?

Murph

October 25th, 2010
4:27 pm

I dunno, I don’t put as much stock in a closer as I do an everyday player like Rasmus. Sure, closers are important and yes, I wanted to punch Wickman and kick Kolb… but I wanted to do a lot worse to Melky and Nate this year.

In my backwards way of thinking, having a Rasmus makes a top-tier closer less important. Hopefully the added run production means less close games while the better fielding makes sending a Venters out instead of Kimbrel less of a risky proposition.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
4:27 pm

Payne: The Dodgers probably have little motivation to trade him unless they are blown away.

Some of this could very well stem from the outcome of the court case. I believe any GM would do what it takes to keep Kemp around, but if the ruling comes out which cripples the teams finances, parting ways with Kemp my be necessary in order to fill other needs with younger, less expensive players.

Personally I’m not holding my breath for either Kemp or Rasmus. I have no idea who Wren is going to target but I fully expect to be underwhelmed.

GT Alum

October 25th, 2010
4:27 pm

I don’t see how we can trade Prado or Infante. Infante’s already the back-up plan for Chipper. Say you trade one of those guys, and Chipper figures out during ST that he can’t come back. The Braves will be scrambling to find someone who can play either 3B or 2B, and while likely either have to overpay or pick up whoever they can off the scrap heap. Either way, the offense figures to be seriously weakened.

Even if Chipper can come back, though, what are the chances he’s going to play 150 games? The only season he’s played in even 140 games since 2003 was 2009. Trading Prado or Infante to improve the OF just seems like filling one hole by creating another. We’d need another quality IF who can play 2B and 3B, and we’d likely end up paying more for someone who wouldn’t do as well.

While I would hate to part with either of them, either Kimbrel or Venters could serve as closer, although we would probably have to sign another reliever to be the set-up man. Or, we’ve got a ton of young quality starting pitchers – Vizcaino, Delgado, Tehran, Beachy, Minor, Medlen, Hanson and JJ. That’s 8 pitchers for 5 spots in the 2013 rotation. The only problem is knowing who’s going to pan out and who won’t. I’m adverse to trading JJ, just because he figures to be a big part of next year’s rotation, and, unless he becomes one of these guys who just can’t stay healthy, we’ll be selling low by trading him now.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
4:29 pm

Yeah, Shaun, but what was his minor league K/BB ratio

It actually wasn’t bad. It was better than Freeman.

Mitchell

October 25th, 2010
4:30 pm

I’m not making any predictions.

I’m just wondering, is it possible for both teams to lose?

That would great actually.

Still incredibly hard to believe that our boy Brian McCann was the first National Leaguer to get the game winning hit in the All Star Game in fourteen years, perhaps the signature moment in a season of awe inspiring debuts, jaw dropping last at-bat finishes and countless come-from-behind victories for the 2010 Atlanta Braves, and the lowly, dirt bag Giants of San Francisco are the ones who will enjoy home field advantage in the World Series.

If there was one single pitch, play, home run or base hit that would seem to have solidified the Braves as the unquestioned Team of Destiny, that was it.

You think I would learn not to fall for that crap after all this time but fall for it I did.

That was one instance where I really did get a little carried away thinking we might actually win more than one playoff game.

But win one playoff game we did. And nothing more.

I guess I’ll go with Texas.

jed

October 25th, 2010
4:31 pm

jeff francouer? some of you people have attachment disorders.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
4:31 pm

It actually wasn’t bad. It was better than Freeman.

It’s settled, then. :-) Rasmus is potential All-World.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
4:34 pm

wjones, Infante is a decent player. Nothing more, nothing less. The Braves could survive offensively with him in the leadoff spot simply because batting order is not as important as who they’ll have batting. His .309 batting average with the Braves is based largely on balls finding holes. He’s not a guy who hits the ball with great authority, as evident by his .411 slugging with the Braves. And he doesn’t walk a lot so if balls aren’t finding holes, he’s not going to get on base, he’s just going to make outs relatively often. Still, he’s a decent player because he doesn’t strikeout a lot so he’s not costing the Braves outs in that way. He’s also versatile. But he’s basically an average player or slightly above average if you want to give him extra points for versatility. Hey, I like Infante as much as the next Braves fan. But he is who he is. I see nothing wrong with him as the everyday secondbaseman or the everyday leadoff guy, but I hope the Braves upgrade at some other positions if they are going to use Infante in those roles. For the record, I think they could upgrade enough so that Infante doesn’t harm them in the leadoff or in an everyday role.

Fred

October 25th, 2010
4:37 pm

So a good chunk of the Rangers starters came to them by way of the Braves trade for… wait for it,… Mark (0-fer-the playoffs) Texeria. Want to talk about what could-a, should-a been??

chris

October 25th, 2010
4:38 pm

jurrjens, delgado, and dunn for kemp could get it done

DS1

October 25th, 2010
4:38 pm

CB/flange1

I guess some folks don’t know that DS1 is “Da Sensitive 1″ and would only call a Gibson guitar lover “lame” in jest!

:lol:

Danga

October 25th, 2010
4:41 pm

So a good chunk of the Rangers starters

If by good chunk you mean a SS and a closer.

chris

October 25th, 2010
4:41 pm

teixeria never really has carried a lineup. a guy that mashes the ball when the team is up by alot or down by alot. great defense, solid teammate that works hard, but he’s never been a guy to lead the team or been the big difference maker

Trey - 6

October 25th, 2010
4:41 pm

I can’t believe Fancoeur has the balls to walk around with that beard. It looks like s***.

myra

October 25th, 2010
4:41 pm

Question..
Is there a way to review all OF’s batting right or switch(dont we wish) in MLB? Baseball ref.?
I know every player would not be available but maybe there is someone we are not thinking about that could be traded for. Since we are hot stovinn it. Rasmus seems to b expensive, and Kemp doesnt sound good. What about Pence?

Keeper

October 25th, 2010
4:42 pm

Trade possibilities naturally get most of the denizens’ attention here, but take a look again at that list of utterly underwhelming names from the last time the Braves made the playoffs. Not sure which was more miraculous, that year or this one, but anyone who still thinks Bobby wasn’t a world-class coach … well, who cares what they think at this point. Bobby sure never did, nor will anyone at his HOF induction. Loved being at Turner to cheer on his final homestand in person, and my lasting image won’t be the SF game, but Bobby on his players’ shoulders to end the season. There will never be another like him.

Mitchell

October 25th, 2010
4:43 pm

Except all my friends in Texas are really just Cowboy fans pretending to be Rangers fans.

They don’t deserve it.

I do not get the feeling they obsess over every pitch and every game to the degree that myself and my fellow Braves bloggers do that would warrant them being rewarded with a World Series.

They haven’t suffered enough. I’d have to not talk to them anymore. I should probably just leave the country.

If only the Yankees could just win it every year. Then we could all be miserable.

I’d rather see the Yankees win five World Series in a row than watch the Giants or Phillies and perhaps the Rangers win one in the next ten.

I’d include the Mets and Cubs in that conversation but that would be ridiculous.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
4:44 pm

So a good chunk of the Rangers starters came to them by way of the Braves

“Good Chunk” Wait for it….

C Matt Treanor
1B Cantu/Moreland/Daves/Smoak/Garko
2B Ian Kinsler
SS Elvis Andrus
3B Mike Young
LF Josh Hamilton
CF Julio Borbon
RF Nelson Cruz
DH Vladimir Guerrero

Starting Pitching (min 10 starts in 2010)
C.J. Wilson
Colby Lewis
Scott Feldman
Tommy Hunter
Cliff Lee
Rich Harden
Dereck Holland

Number of starters acquired from the Braves 1.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
4:44 pm

If I knew nothing other than talent. I’d take Yunel 100 out of 100 times CraZy

me too, and I’m not a huge believer in intangibles and clubhouse camaraderie, I’ve seen too many teams win that did not have it

Puma

October 25th, 2010
4:45 pm

Wren can probably be real patient in terms of trading anyone. It will not be disaster for this team to play April and May without a new power bat in the lineup…we did win 91 games last year. Hold on to JJ see how he comes back next year, if his value is high, then you can trade him, but right now he is as low as he has ever been.

We can also see who is still not signed in Jan and Feb and maybe pick someone up in a good deal, or maybe another team offers someone arbitration a la Greg Maddux and has to trade someone to free up payroll…who knows. We are far from desperate at this point.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
4:46 pm

TennesseePaul, I suspect the whole divorce mess isn’t going to affect things with the Dodgers as much as expected. I suspect things will get settled in a way that doesn’t hugely affect the Dodgers, although there may be some minor ramifications. However, admittedly I don’t know enough about the situation. It just seems a filthy rich guy and gal will probably find a way to not let the situation change at least that aspect of their finances (the Dodgers, I mean).

I think Wren will make a run at Rasmus but I think the odds are against a trade like that happening because Rasmus is too good at such a young age for a team like the Cardinals to part with him. I don’t know that they would go after Kemp even if he were available simply because of his contract in addition to what they’d have to give up.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
4:46 pm

I’m not a huge believer in intangibles and clubhouse camaraderie, I’ve seen too many teams win that did not have it

I don’t know about this… every time I see a team when everyone on the team appears very happy.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
4:46 pm

the more i think about it, the more ordonez is a really good fit, folks DAP

another gamble, on his age and health, and the Braves ain’t been winning them gambles all that much lately. There is no question that he was, and still is to an extent, a talented hitter.

MikeInFl

October 25th, 2010
4:48 pm

myra, try THIS.

baseballreference.com is best for most stat searches, but the kind of thing you’re looking for is easer (IMO) on ESPN. Play with the “Bats” option to break it out by righty/lefty/switch.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
4:50 pm

I suspect the whole divorce mess isn’t going to affect things with the Dodgers as much as expected

We shall see. It wasn’t supposed to have any impact on the team to date but it has.

It just seems a filthy rich guy and gal will…

First impression? “Filthy” being a label one would aptly apply to a parking lot attendant. Not necessarily to positively describe the balance sheet of Frank or Jamie.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
4:50 pm

intangibles and clubhouse camaraderie
nolie
Some teams can have so much talent the rest of the intangibles don’t matter. I believe to a team like we had this year that stuff matters. The giants are the same way! Talent is number 1 and some other things are higher on the list but somewhere on the list is chemistry. To some teams its more important than others. That’s the whole reason I said it was a good trade.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
4:50 pm

It will not be disaster for this team to play April and May without a new power bat in the lineup…we did win 91 games last year

Uh-oh. N8 has gotten to another poster, LOL. Sure, let’s count on having another year in which semi-scrub lineups produced eleven-ty million come-from-behinds and walk-offs, and the bullpen made so few missteps all year as to be unconscious.

Me, I think I’d rather see a slightly more traditional course: hang ‘em and bang ‘em until the pitcher’s girlfriend starts thinking about a new arrangement.

TennesseePaul

October 25th, 2010
4:51 pm

McFann O O – 6

October 25th, 2010
4:55 pm

Mitchell @ 4:30—

I gotta say, I pretty much agree with that. After BMac’s Double in the All-Star Game, and then the Braves winning the Wild Card, well, how could anybody help thinking the Braves were the team of destiny?

Maybe they still were—but they did something wrongly and messed everything up. If anybody couls do it…

JKM. ;)

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
4:55 pm

2005 Chris Reitsma 15 SV / Danny Kolb 11 SV
2006 Bob Wickman 18 SV
2007 Bob Wickman 20 SV
2008 Mike Gonzalez 14 SV
2009 Rafael Soriano 27 SV / Mike Gonzalez 10 SV
2010 Billy Wagner 37 SV

Kimbrel is one of the players on the untouchable list IMO. I’m tired of playing musical closer. I’d like to see
2011 Craig Kimbrel
2012 Craig Kimbrel
2013 Craig Kimbrel
2014 Craig Kimbrel
2015 Craig Kimbrel……
…………………………………
…………………………………

Danga

October 25th, 2010
4:56 pm

The Braves were truly a dangerous team in May when Troy Glaus was the best hitter in the NL. With him mashing in the middle of the lineup I would say we were the best team in baseball. Maybe we can compensate by more subtle improvements at a few different positions, but that bruiser in the middle would be a beautiful thing.

Ed Glennon

October 25th, 2010
4:57 pm

Hire Big Cat as hitting coach. If that doesn’t work out let him play left field. He has to be better than what we had. I don’t care how old he is.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
5:00 pm

A major league shortstop and a major league secondbaseman will still turn double plays if they hate each other. That’s more or less the way I view intangibles and clubhouse camaraderie at the major league level. I think it can be moderately helpful or harmful in extreme cases. But I don’t think the best clubhouse can add anything like 10-15 wins to a team nor do I think the worse clubhouse can cost a team 10-15 wins.

No matter what goes on in a clubhouse, major leaguers have all the incentive in the world to do everything they can to win a game and little incentive to let the clubhouse atmosphere affect their performance, especially over the last 30-40 years when ballplayers have become millionaires because of their performance on the field. I’m not saying the clubhouse atmosphere never affects performance. I think for example Bobby Cox and the Braves organization created an atmosphere that allowed players to get the most out of their abilities and skills. But I don’t think performance is affected to a large degree by clubhouse atmosphere. I think the affects are small.

Arkie

October 25th, 2010
5:02 pm

If you trade Prado, who will play third base. I think Chipper has been Great – but he will miss alot of games. JJ looked a little fat. He could be part of a possible trade. Venters looked great until he was way over used near the end of the season. Pitching seems to be all we have at the moment to trade. Be careful, some of the young arms being mentioned as trade bait will be above average pitchers. BUT – you have to score runs to win games. WREN you have problems, team speed, defense, offense – your patch work is not working. You and JS have traded our best infield and out field propects – hope you have some coming up. Be careful giving away your best young arms unless you can be sure of the return. Your record needs improving. (Do not trade Kimbrell or Venters) Go Braves.

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
5:03 pm

CraZyTRaDeMaN, there is something to be said for not using up a lot of resources on a guy that is usually only going to come in for 1 inning, to end the game, when the team is already winning. Although when you have a guy like Kimbrel who is going to be relatively cheap for a while and who is dominant, you can’t ignore that.

Puma

October 25th, 2010
5:03 pm

Scoots – I’d love to sign Werth or Crawford, but it ain’t gonna happen. I am just saying that given what we have, we don’t have to go trade our best pitching prospects right now, we can wait and even if we do break camp without a new righty bat, we are still OK. I am not saying we are the class of the division, but just that we will be OK. Maybe we can pick up this years Vlad or Burrell, who knows.

Steve McP

October 25th, 2010
5:04 pm

Frenchy is the blog’s new Ryan Freel

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:06 pm

O.K. DOB what did you think of SECRETARIAT?

nolie

October 25th, 2010
5:09 pm

Jair for Colby straight up. Take it or leave it Cards

guess it’ll get left then. there is no way in hell they are trading Rasmus for only an injured pitcher

chris

October 25th, 2010
5:10 pm

kimbrel is gonna be better than any closer the braves had, except for maybe wagner. kimbrel hides the ball really well. throws high 90’s and actually has the best curveball in the franchise as well. when he got his release point and control this year, he became the next bailey for the oaland a’s.

myra

October 25th, 2010
5:15 pm

Thx to MikeinFla
Ok. I say McCutchen. Give em JJ,Nate,and Dunn.
Ok not him? How bout my favorite from last year… Scott Pod to play left and leave McOut(because what else we gonna do w/him?)

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
5:15 pm

Shaun
The 9th inning is just bigger and more important than just 1 inning. I’d trade a SP prospect before I’d trade Venters or Kimbrel. I remember when we traded for Reitsma to be the closer didn’t work, Kolb didn’t work Wickman was SCARY AS HELL I’d watch until the 9th then turn it off I’d figured I’d find out who won by watching SC. I know Kimbrel hasn’t proven anything yet but, dude appears to have closer stuff. There’s no way in hell I’d trade it away.

rammerjammer

October 25th, 2010
5:15 pm

Joe Strauss of the StL Post-Dispatch on Oct. 20: “I would like to get Martin Prado from the Atlanta Braves, but question whether it could happen. The Braves are among the teams with strong interest in Rasmus. Could a deal expand to include both players? It seems unlikely since Prado was arguably the Braves’ most valuable position player this season. He’s also an arbitration-eligible guy who will command significant more money than Rasmus next season. But since you asked. Whoever plays second base needs to be a plus defender. I can live with either the speedster or the big bat.”

St. Louis has pitching. Their middle infield is pathetic. Getting Prado would be huge for them. Strauss has written extensively about the Rasmus situation, the clashes with LaRussa and Rasmus’ discomfort with the clubhouse politics.

Rasmus might be high maintenance, who knows? And it would hurt to move Prado, who clearly is a LaRussa (intense) kind of guy and practically willed the Braves into contention this year. But we do have some depth there. We ain’t got jack in CF and no one in the pipeline. We really, really need an outfield bat.

This might need to get done.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
5:16 pm

Honestly I would offer Delgado as the centerpiece for Rasmus. Delgado is a top pitching prospect

that ain’t working either. they are not trading one of the best CFers aroung who is still dirt cheap for an unproven A or AA pitcher who would be little help for a couple of years most likely.

unbelievable

October 25th, 2010
5:17 pm

I dont see why the Braves would move Prado in a deal for Rasmus. Prado is the best RH everyday player that the Braves have. They need to be dealing from the pitching depth in order to improve on offense. Dont see how DOB’s proposal helps the Braves, its just creating more holes

Prado .307/.350/.459 + Venters (possible closer) + #3 prospect Vizcaino for Rasmus .276/.361/.498 is definitely overpaying. Its also making us more LH heavy

Alan 10

October 25th, 2010
5:19 pm

Lets don’t give away the farm again as we did in the Texira deal, gee’s we stocked Texas for years to come.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:19 pm

COLBY RASMUS and JOHNNY DAMON works for me. DIAZ, ANKIEL gone. YOUNG the fifth outfielder if there is a fifth outfielder. WES TIMMONS given a legitimate shot in ST at CONNIE’s slot.

I see RICK A has a $500,000 mutual option for this next season. If the BRAVES make a move, and let ANKIEL go, do they own RICK half-a-mill.? His salary $2.75 million for 2010. MATT D $2.550,000. Is that $5,30 toward DAMON’s salary or $3.050, or what?

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
5:20 pm

I think the Braves seriously need to look into Rasmus or Kemp. They seem to be the most talked about Outfielders that could be traded. We’ll have to wait longer to get some more names and possible options to supply power in the lineup.

If Jurrjens was never injured and performed like he did in 2009 his trade value would be very high. But honeslty no he’s more valuble to us right now. I always seen him kinda like Odalis Perez but way better. We traded him, Brian Jordan, mid prospect for 2 season’s of Sheffield. Let JJ regain his form this season and see how Huddy,Lowe are holding up and how the kids are doing in the minors. We have a few years to trade him if we decide to go that route.

myra

October 25th, 2010
5:20 pm

No way on Prado.eva. Its Infante.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
5:21 pm

richbrave

Ankiel has a 6 million option for next year. with a 500k buyout.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
5:21 pm

Prado’s going to have better stats than he did this year Frank

I’ve been hyping Prado since he was in AAA, but I think what we saw the last two years is about as good as he will get

unbelievable

October 25th, 2010
5:22 pm

the only player that the Braves are truly missing from the Tex deal is Feliz. Andrus is slugging .301 this season with a .643OPS, he’s still young but thats flat out awful. He wouldnt be helping this offense at all

Soph

October 25th, 2010
5:23 pm

Well, it’s good enough for me.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:23 pm

CB

October 25th, 2010
5:25 pm

Soph,I thought of you when they started talking about trading Marteeen. :roll:

unbelievable

October 25th, 2010
5:25 pm

Prado is going to keep giving you exactly what he has the last three years, his slg should go up a little, but a slash line of .310/.360/.465 from 2B is pretty darn good. There’s nothing about his approach that says he’ll have a dropoff

Shaun

October 25th, 2010
5:25 pm

CraZyTRaDeMaN, Reitsma, Kolb and Wickman were just not all that good. I wouldn’t want to trade Kimbrel simply because he is dominant; it really has little to do with when he pitches. If it were Rasmus straight up for Kimbrel, maybe I consider it, but I think the Cardinals would want more and I don’t think Rasmus is worth that much more.

RHR

October 25th, 2010
5:26 pm

His mom has a tattoo that says “mixup at the hospital.”

He is the death of parites he has never attended.

If he were to punch you in the face, he’d miss.

He is…Jeff Francoeur. The least interesting man in the world.

CB

October 25th, 2010
5:27 pm

richbrave,if I recall correctly,Royals sent buyout money for Ankiel and Farnsworth in the trade.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:27 pm

No way we sign ANKIEL for 6 big ones. So we pay him 500K, and say thanks for the homer by the bay, the outfield assists, and have a nice life.

RHR

October 25th, 2010
5:27 pm

I’ve never wanted the Rangers to lose more, by the way. Thanks, DOB. :P

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:28 pm

ROYALS sent along the buyout bread?…………SWEET!!!!!!!

Soph

October 25th, 2010
5:29 pm

CB – ugh, how dare they? My guy’s not going anywhere.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:30 pm

Grecian Forrmula

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
5:31 pm

Playoffs!!!!, no doubt he is the best lefty reliever, Everyday Johnny is awesome, I’m just saying that I think Kimbrel will be better.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:31 pm

Just for Men.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 25th, 2010
5:32 pm

I wouldn’t want to trade Kimbrel simply because he is dominant

I agree! But to have a guy you can depend on to close out games year after year makes life much easier. Just ask the Yankees.

N8

October 25th, 2010
5:33 pm

scoots, first of all I know you’re messin’ around.

But, last year’s team relied on the “magic” BECAUSE the lineup was so bad. How many games did the Braves’ starting pitchers come out of the game tied or trailing in 3-2, 2-1, 2-0, 1-0 games because there wasn’t any offens.

In Mar/April here are the Braves most frequent starters numbers:

Mac – .234, 2 HR, 8 RBI
Glaus – .194, 2 HR, 9 RBI
Prado – .356, 1 HR, 4 RBI
Yunel – .215, 0 HR, 4 RBI
Chipper – .230, 2 HR, 6 RBI
Melky – .195, 0 HR, 3 RBI
Nate – .175, 2 HR, 4 RBI
Heyward – .240, 6 HR, 19 RBI

So my point remains the same. If our lineup simply has 4-5 guys hitting reasonably well at all times, with our rotation and bullpen, they will win more often than they will lose.

If the lineup would have hit for a damn in innings 1-6 most games, the late inning heroics from guys like Conrad and Hinske would have been completely unecessary.

Those above numbers cover 23 games. Let me emphasize tht the heart of our order (Chipper, Glaus and Mac) combined for 5 HR and 23 RBI in those 23 games. Meanwhile Heyward had 6 HR and 19 RBI on his own.

I actually agree with you. The “magic” is unlikely to be there again. But my point is that it won’t need to be if the team actually provides “league average” production at ever spot.

That lineup had 4 guys hitting .215 or under and 3 guys (including the two main leadoff options that month) hitting under .195.

Only two guys in the lineup hitting over .240.

NO TEAMS are going to succeed with only two guys at a time hitting over .240 for a month at a time.

Until September (12-13), April was the only losing month (9-14). I don’t think it’s coincidence that the Braves went 68-41 from May 1st through August 31st, once the lineup started clicking.

You’re giving too much credit for the handfull of wins that Hinske and Conrad sparked with their stellar bench work, and not ENOUGH credit to what Conrad, Hinske and then finally Infante did as starters while filling in for injured or slumping players.

Can we expect that kind of production from those guys again next year? I think we can. If Hinske is back, why wouldn’t he provide what he’s provided to winning clubs the past few years?

Conrad is what he is. A pretty good, gritty hitter, that has trouble fielding the ball cleanly. And I don’t know what more Infante has to do to prove that he can hit. Dude’s hit .309 in 3 years with the Braves in 991 AB. Time to finally admit the guy can hit. For the record (to dispute Shaun’s theory), his OBP in those 3 seasons is .350. Guy can be a viable leadoff hitter if needed.

Just got to find a way for the whole lineup to not slump at once. I’m hoping that replacing TP has something to do with making that dream a reality. I’m guessing Wren was thinking the same thing or he wouldn’t have made the change. No matter what he says about giving him “more responsibilities.

Gotta go run some errands. Be back on later.

Later.

Vahidawg

October 25th, 2010
5:33 pm

The cardinals still owe us for the hosing they gave us for the Drew/Wainwright trade

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:34 pm

BTW isn’t SHEFF a FA? And JOHN SMOLTZ, or did he ultimately retire?

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:35 pm

CLAIROL for Men.

ltdbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:35 pm

Forget about trading away our future like Schuerholz did and sign Jayson Werth. Why give up Kimbrel and/or Prado. It isn’t worth it. Tired of giving away our prospects.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
5:36 pm

Shaun, you’re right………….If one of those teams trade their CF make no mistake about it they will ask for the world…….

Hey it looks like Don Baylor will be the D-backs new hitting coach. http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16429748

Murph

October 25th, 2010
5:37 pm

I personally only think 1 player on the Braves is untouchable, and that’s JHey. If they can deal anyone else, not make a huge hole, and make the team better in return, then I say do it.

There are no guarantees with these guys. We all knew Andrus was going to be good, but he could have lost his way or gotten hurt. Everyone keeps bringing up Wainwright… look at his numbers in the minors. A lot of 10-10 type seasons, ERA’s in the mid to high 3 range. Not exactly lights-out type numbers.

If they can give up a Delgado or a Kimbrel for someone that’s shown they can perform well at the MLB level, well, I say give ‘em up. Gotta take some chances. Some will work, some won’t. Better than signing Diaz and going into the season with him and McLouth in starting roles.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:37 pm

KIMBREL goes nowhere

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:40 pm

MURPH:

No deal

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
5:40 pm

nolie

October 25th, 2010
5:41 pm

look at his numbers in the minors. A lot of 10-10 type seasons, ERA’s in the mid to high 3 range. Not exactly lights-out type numbers

thats true murph, there were a few upper level Braves Execs who were kinda worried about Wainwright the last year or two which is why he was traded. as it was it took him several more years to be of all that much value. He has not been a stud for them for 5 yeras like someone earlier said. Course logic makes small dents in emotion so those folks ain’t changing their minds

MikeInFl

October 25th, 2010
5:43 pm

Murph, I’m with you. I love having Kimbrel, but I don’t consider any relief pitcher untouchable. Not when you need 2/3 of an outfield, especially.

I just wonder, if we had a young, under-control CF who had just posted the best OPS of any CF in baseball at age 23, and some team suggested we give him up for a reliever with 20-something major league innings, and a minor league pitcher who was 3rd on their pitching prospect list, would we do it?

Anyway, I doubt Rasmus will be available.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
5:44 pm

richbrave: I didn’t see Secretariat.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
5:45 pm

I doubt Rasmus or Kemp will end up here, most likely not even traded though depending on court case Kemp might be a bit more likely to be moved

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
5:49 pm

Of the 3 stud starters in the minors( Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, and Aroldys Vizcaino) I would be willing to trade the two that are not named Julio Teheran.

Man the Braves have pitching…….A lot

raleighbravefan

October 25th, 2010
5:49 pm

Mitchell – Why all the negativity? Oh, that’s right. It’s YOU! Never mind. How can you say Texas DOESN’T DESERVE IT? HUH?
What a great story. You’ve got the whole Josh Hamilton thing (a Raleigh boy, I might add), and all those former Braves, none of whom left of their own will. And they pretty much killed the “two best” teams in the AL. AND they are owned by Nolan Ryan!!!

Then there’s SF – A National League team, Who saved us from the obnoxiousness and arrogance of the Phillies and their fans ( how sweet was that? ), and a team who is built like and plays like our beloved Braves.

I say “can they both WIN?”. I’m so excited it isn’t the Phillies and Yankees, I can hardly stand it (and LOL on Fox!)

Infante for President

October 25th, 2010
5:52 pm

Speaking of the Rangers… I see Elvis Andrus, and I’m just like– YEAAARRRGHHH! He could’ve been OUR SS!! (Of course, Braves at the time had no reason to suspect that Yunel would go all diva on them).

steve

October 25th, 2010
5:55 pm

All you knuckleheads out there talking about trading Prado,Kimbrell or Venters for Rasmus are nuts, Wainwright for J.Drew ring a bell, we still have not recovered from that, Jurjens is the obvious choice with Boras as his agent, get Kemp and go out and spend some money on a right handed power hitting leftfielder, keep our young pitchers and one of the best hitters in baseball (prado) should never come up in a conversation.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
5:56 pm

I’m rooting for the Giants, just because I want the national league to win………………I can’t stand all this Yankee fans, Redsox, etc. saying that the NL is no comparison to the all powerful AL. And then they say the AL East is absurd, in inter league play the AL always wins, and the NL almost always lose the all star game, etc….

Go national league shut those arrogant AL fans up.

Murph

October 25th, 2010
6:02 pm

steve, like I said above, look at what Wainwright was doing in the minors when he got traded for JD Drew. He wasn’t nearly the dominant pitcher back then that he turned out to be nor did he show many signs that he was going to turn into a future Cy Young candidate. Even in his last season in AAA he was 10-10 with a 4.40 ERA.

There’s no “recovering” when you trade a guy who is showing that he’s a #4 starter at best and then he puts 2 and 2 together and turns into an ace a few years down the road. Maybe he would have turned into an ace in Atlanta, maybe he would have been another Kyle Davies.

turnin2

October 25th, 2010
6:03 pm

I still can’t believe the Braves aren’t considering Jamie Dismuke from Gwinnett after the success he’s had with our struggling hitters sent down – not to mention he helped Barbaro Canizares win the batting title this year. Let’s not forget he’s been an instrumental part of the Reds organization with their young hitters – pretty convincing arguments to have him step in here. But I guess Fredi wants another ‘buddy’ on the staff

Glen W

October 25th, 2010
6:04 pm

I’d love to see Rasmus added. But I would not like to see Prado traded, even for Rasmus. I knwo that makes no sense on some levels because CF is going to be hardest position for the Braves to solve in the next few years. But Prado is just too valuable to this team. Ulitmate team guy… will play anywhere based upon who else is in the line-up. He’s the heart and soul of the team.

But I agree with DOB (hey, he does have actual sources after all), that unless the Cards are willing to trade Rasmus to the Braves for 2 or 3 young pitchers, Prado or Heyward would have to be in that deal.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
6:05 pm

Based on Chipper’s uncertainty, age, and injury history even if he comes back, I don’t think you can trade either Infante or Prado. Those guys have to be locks to be back on the team for next year.

If Chipper surprises us and says he’s retiring, early in the offseason, then could could trade 1 or the other and spend money on 3B.

NEW CARS

October 25th, 2010
6:08 pm

DOB,
Isn’t it amazing that in a span of 5 years or so the baseball commodities has turned on its head. In 2004 or 2005, a guy with Jurrjens numbers, even coming off an injury-plagued year, would bring a 20-25 homer guy. But now, it’s almost like we’ve been transported back to the 1960s where a 260/360/460 line is an allstar and pitchers a dime a dozen. I think we have to realize that we are either going to have to pay out the wazoo for a guy like Rasmus, or we take a flyer on a guy like Nelson Cruz (not him, but someone like who he was 3 years ago, a guy that was never really given a good chance to start and then blossomed). as I said before, my hope is that Wilken Ramirez can be that type of player, but the jury is out on that. One guy that could be reasonable and might be a match for Juurjens would be Ellsbury, but I don’t know that starting pitching is at the top of the list for the Red Sox.
Maybe a guy like Quentin or Delmon Young could be had, but it would probably take JJ and Delgado/Vizcaino at the least to get them. If the player is young enough and we can affordably control them for 3-4 years I think we need to make a move like that. We have some hitters in the system, but most are at the lowest levels of the minors.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
6:09 pm

Oh, and NO ON RASMUS. Seems like a mix between Kelly and McLouth in terms of potential and early career success, but really, another lefty? No way.

I’m down like others have posted to trade Jurrjens and another prospect or 2 for Kemp. Think about that: Prado, Kemp, McCann, Heyward Chipper, all in the middle of our lineup….

Glen W

October 25th, 2010
6:12 pm

If you prefer Kemp over Rasmus, I really have to wonder if you know anything about baseball. I mean, really.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
6:14 pm

If we can somehow get Kemp, I wouldn’t mind sending McLouth to LA AND paying his salary. But, if we can land Kemp, then it wouldn’t hurt to have McLouth manning LF like it did this past season.

Murph

October 25th, 2010
6:18 pm

Someone in the old blog mentioned Delmon Young… I think I’d maybe take him and his craziness over Kemp. Not as much power but hits for average and has a higher OBP.

I like the idea of getting someone with some fire in his gut. He might have too much fire and not enough brains, but I’d like to see what he could do in Atlanta.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
6:22 pm

Really Glen W?????

Matt Kemp had solid OBP’s in 2007, 2008, and 2009. While last year was an aberration in terms of OBP and BA, he still hit 28 HR’s. He’s also a lock to steal 30+ bases a year.

Rasmus, on the other hand is still a progressing player, so there’s more risk in Rasmus than there is Kemp. Kemp has seen more MLB pitching. He’s also still young like Rasmus.

Rasmus bats left-handed, and while the front office claims they wouldn’t be bothered by signing another lefty, I’d bet they’d prefer a right-handed power bat in the OF than a guy still farther behind in development who could fizzle out AND bats LH.

Think about next year’s locks to be in the lineup: Freeman (LH), Heyward (LH), McCann (LH), McLouth (LH), then you want to add Rasmus and possibly give up quite a package to get him? No thanks… I’d take my chances on sending that big a package to LA and get a right handed bat.

zookey

October 25th, 2010
6:23 pm

O’Brien you have really stired this bunch of idiots over nothing….,

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
6:25 pm

B.C.: Good point at 6:05 p.m., in regards to Chipper

dogman

October 25th, 2010
6:26 pm

The braves may as well give some more of their young future all star pitchers to the cardinals like they did with Wainwright. If they make any trade I would bet the mortgage they will get burnt again like they did when they gave Texas all those players for a Tex rental and then turned around and gave him away too. Just look at Texas in the world series and that trade has a lot to do with them being there.The braves will be watching the game on tv.

Glen W

October 25th, 2010
6:27 pm

BC, I get that rasmus is LH. But first of all, Rasmus is a legit CF, definesively. And Rasmus offers 2 more years of control… which a big deal given where the Braves are in terms of payroll. And I think Rasmus is a better player right now.

Chuck M.

October 25th, 2010
6:28 pm

I say work on Braun or Hart deal from the Brewers,They need pitching so bad, you might be able to trde jurgins straiht up.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
6:36 pm

Jurrjens and maybe something for Kemp. Kemp has proved to be a good player did have a down year tho, JJ is proven to be a great starter, had a injury down year. I cant see how the Braves give up more than JJ for em tho. He under contract for only 2011. In my opinion JJ should be enough considering we have what 3 more years of control?

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
6:36 pm

Murph—Wainwright was considering the #1 pitching prospect in the Braves organization when he was traded. That’s how badly we wanted J.D.Drew.
Glen W–Kemp over Rasmus for this team (Braves) makes perfect sense.

Murph

October 25th, 2010
6:37 pm

“The braves may as well give some more of their young future all star pitchers to the cardinals like they did with Wainwright.”

You guys are killing me. If the Braves were to make a Wainwright type deal to St Louis then they would be trading Erik Cordier or Todd Redmond, not Teheran or Kimbrel. Wainwright was not putting up great numbers when he got shipped out. He had decent ERA’s, high WHIPS, and good K’s, but he wasn’t exactly looking like the next Randy Johnson. It took him a few years of playing in St. Louis before he put it together.

I guess there is no time limit on traded players and the impact of losing them has on their former team. If so, I wonder if there are guys on the Tiger’s boards still whining about the John Smoltz trade.

sportsmandh

October 25th, 2010
6:38 pm

greetings denizens,

I hate to be a negative Nancy on Colby Rasmus. But consider this, there once was a young centerfielder that hit .276, with a .853 OPS, 26 homers, 94 rbi, and 23 stolen bases. A young man that no one had reason to believe would not be an excellent trade candidate to improve a shoddy outfield. This young man was had in a trade for MUCH less talent than what is being kicked around about Rasmus (granted it is speculation on what it would take in a trade). The young man with above stats, one Nate Mclouth.

Now, I’m not slamming ideas for improving the outfield. But I’m not sold on Rasmus. But the Braves better be 100% SURE that Rasmus is a can’t miss prospect to give up big time talent to get him. I would not do it. My point is that it could back fire BIG time if they give up someone as good as Venters, Kimbrel, Tehran, or even Prado. I would be OUT on any such deal.

AdirondackDave

October 25th, 2010
6:40 pm

I’d like to see Rasmus in a Braves uniform too, but not at the expense of Prado, Kimbrel, or Teheran. If Rasmas can’t be had, there may be other possibilities coming.

Lowe is clearly a valuable asset after his improved season this year and with just 2 years left on his contract. The Yankees need a dependable starter, even if they reel in Lee, which is not a given. Lowe for Swisher may be much more realistiic this year. That would add to the cash available for either Crawford or Werth.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
6:43 pm

Rasmus doesnt become a Free Agent until 2015. It would be totally different from the Wainwright trade. Were getting a Young player thats played pretty well and has tons of potential and would be here for 4 seasons atleast.

Not a Hall of Fame w/out Dale Murphy

October 25th, 2010
6:44 pm

Dave I remember in an earlier blog you mentioned all players on a team that won the world series get a ring assuming they had decent playing time. Does that mean that Molina will get a ring no matter who wins? He played almost half a year w/ San Fran and I have to assume that qualifies as decent playing time. If that is true has it ever happened before?

Bobby's Booger

October 25th, 2010
6:47 pm

Look for McLouth to return in CF, and some inexpensive, washed-up soul in LF.

Wren will then proclaim Chipper “100% healthy” and say having a healthy Chipper Jones is the same as acquiring an AllStar.

Freeman will hit 9 Hrs, drive in 55 runs, and bat .256 his rookie year.

The Braves will finish second to the Phillies in 2011.

Danga

October 25th, 2010
6:47 pm

He’s also a lock to steal 30+ bases a year.

Then how’d he only steal 19 this season? Btw, he was caught 15 times! Kemp has skills, but he ain’t putting them together real well so far. Colby makes me nervous b/c he only has this one season under his belt, but at this point that is all you can really say about Kemp as well.

Bobby's Booger

October 25th, 2010
6:50 pm

Hang on to those young pitchers Frank !

Dump Lowe’s contract & use that money on a real stud hitter. With 2 years left & coming off a stellar stretch, Lowe should attract interest from some contenders.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
6:53 pm

sportsmandh

Rasmus is playing pretty well being 22 and 23 years old. McLouth didnt come out until he was 27 big difference. Rasmus is a 5 tool player drafted in the 1st round packed with potential. The kid already has 39 homers under his belt. Showed Major Improvement from his rookie year. He played about the same amount in both seasons.

He improved all his stats. +.025 avg + .054 obp + .091 slg + .145 ops + 9 sb + 7 hr he’s developing into a good player.

njbraves

October 25th, 2010
6:53 pm

As I was reading the blog I knew there would be a hail storm of comments crying about trading young guys. Some of you are so predictable. It doesn’t matter who they trade, people will complain. The ML club needs to improve, and since they don’t have a ton of cash to spend, trading prospects is the way to do it. We’re trying to win the WS, not have the best farm system.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
6:54 pm


Look for McLouth to return in CF, and some inexpensive, washed-up soul in LF.

Wren will then proclaim Chipper “100% healthy” and say having a healthy Chipper Jones is the same as acquiring an AllStar.

Freeman will hit 9 Hrs, drive in 55 runs, and bat .256 his rookie year.

The Braves will finish second to the Phillies in 2011.


i believe this to be true i think wren needs to find a way to get rid of KK, reliese Diaz, and find a way to give special super powers to nate to play left and hit 25 homers

DS1

October 25th, 2010
6:56 pm

sportsmandh

If you are looking for a 100% guarantee with any player received in a trade, I am afraid you are ultimately going to be disappointed.

Maybe there is some validitiy to the McLouth vs Rasmus comparison, but do you never make a deal because you are afraid of it backfiring.

That’s life. Take your shot. Roll the dice. Make the best deal you can for the best possible player you can afford, and then NEVER look back.

But then again, if folks never looked back, Dave would have a LOT less posts on the MIB/Braves blog, huh. (Len Barker, Dave Justice, JD Drew, Teixeira, and Wainwright comes to mind!)

Murph

October 25th, 2010
6:57 pm

I worry that you guys are right in your predictions for next year, but I do think Wren will make at least one impact move this off season. After the Melky/Nate/Diaz fiasco I think his job would be in jeopardy if he didn’t do something to upgrade the OF. He’s gone on record saying that was his #1 goal this winter, so to not do it would look bad… really, really bad.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
6:59 pm

I mean, what do some of you think they’re going to ask for from the Braves in return for that kind of young player, Jordan Schafer and Mike Dunn?

What if we added Kawakami?

DS1

October 25th, 2010
6:59 pm

If Frank doesn’t do something of significance between now and the first pitch of the World Serious, he should be FIRED immediately!!!

nolie

October 25th, 2010
7:00 pm

Wainwright was considering the #1 pitching prospect in the Braves organization when he was traded

not saying all that much back then. he was the only one with any real promise who was near ready. still took him some years to progress after that and they were disappointed with his last year and a half in the minors. That’s really why they traded him. and don’t forget they got back more than Drew, the other guy had a good year and was instrumental in getting to the playoofs too.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
7:01 pm

The World Serious…now that’s an important World Series

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
7:01 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgwQpxk_FpHQOU9gA3mcs.8RvLYF?slug=sh-molina102410

Not a Hall of Fame w/out Dale Murphy_

An article on Molina. Short answer, yes.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
7:03 pm

if hindsight were foresight, anybody could be a GM even some of the idiots on here

sportsmandh

October 25th, 2010
7:04 pm

VA fan, DS1,

The Cards are not as stupid an organization as the Pirates. They will command value in a trade. That would not be up for dealing Rasmus without getting prime Grade A prospects.

I am not opposed to a trade, just saying they better be very careful. Personally, if it were me, I’d be more inclined to deal Jurrjens for the best outfielder I could get. I love JJ, only reason I’d do it is b/c they already have control of Hansen for several years, Lowe and Huddy locked up for a couple years. So, I’d trade JJ b/c I know they have studs in the pipeline.

I would listen to a deal to give up better prospects for Braun then I would Rasmus. That is what it would take for me to trade one of the big 3 (Tehran, Delgado, Vizcaino). Braun, not Rasmus.

Bobby's chauffeur

October 25th, 2010
7:04 pm

The Braves were truly a dangerous team in May when Troy Glaus was the best hitter in the NL. With him mashing in the middle of the lineup
I agree.. I have been saying all along don’t sell the farm. Don’t hurt the future. 2012 will be our best year losing all of those high dollar contracts. We will be fine in 2011. Mc Louth will be a force in center.. He will work it out. it was a mind thing. He will work his butt off this winter to get it straight. Does anyone think he came to SP and said I really want to suck this year? So would not be concerned about that position. Get the best bat you can for LF without disassembling the starting lineup. go braves…

Danga

October 25th, 2010
7:04 pm

But I’m probly just bitter about Kemp. I wasted a first round draft pick on the guy on my fantasy team. Sigh.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
7:07 pm

Danga – I was one pick away from getting Kemp…lucky me

Not a Hall of Fame w/out Dale Murphy

October 25th, 2010
7:09 pm

benchwarmer

October 25th, 2010
7:11 pm

The way I see the Braves needs combining with their ability to get sutible players by trade or FA, I think getting a terrific hitting coach and working real hard to improve and/or turn around some under performers will be top priority.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
7:11 pm

still took him some years to progress after that and they were disappointed with his last year and a half in the minors.

As I remember, he had another growth spurt at the beginning of that period, and there was some worry about his ability to ever get his mechanics in gear, especially if he grew any more. Late growth spurts aren’t especially beneficial to young pitchers.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
7:12 pm

sportsmandh

Ryan Braun isnt going anywhere he’s the face of the Brewers. There gonna trade Fielder tho.

Bobby’s chauffeur

if McLouth could bounce back to a 250 avg. with around 15 homers with good defense in CF that would be huge. Most likely he will be a starter in CF or LF next season. I dont think there is a chance of trading him. Were better off hoping he bounces back than eating that contract.

DS1

October 25th, 2010
7:13 pm

Hey, maybe that’s why I sucked as a pitching prospect……it was that darned growth spurt in the 8th grade!!

:twisted:

DS1

October 25th, 2010
7:14 pm

Doing my best impression of T’hawkin.

McLouth is going to have a big comeback year in 2011! BANK ON IT!

nolie

October 25th, 2010
7:14 pm

yeah thats what worried me when I scouted you DS

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
7:14 pm

I worry that you guys are right in your predictions for next year, but I do think Wren will make at least one impact move this off season. After the Melky/Nate/Diaz fiasco I think his job would be in jeopardy if he didn’t do something to upgrade the OF. He’s gone on record saying that was his #1 goal this winter, so to not do it would look bad… really, really bad.

My money is on wren getting a couple of outfielders. 1 of witch is a big enough bat where us fans will be happy about getting him. the other may be a cheeper version maybe aquired thru a trade from someones AAA club. i am not a Wren hater!

Anyone who is paying attention knows that wren got the braves back to becoming a winning ball club from being a sub .500 team for a couple years. he then got our team to become a playoff team. i dont hate him cus he has gotten the braves to become a better team year after year.

Wren has a plan and has had the same plan since he has been here. he came and built up the pitching and the bullpen and he has staggered to contracts so year after year he knows what he will need for the next 2 or so years. before extending hudson wren knew this year he would likely need a 1b and an outfielder or 2. he knows there is always time to tinker with the pen. he knows both his budget and his tallent. other than a mcclouth trade that didnt work out and a chipper jones extention that at the time seemed like a no brainer after hitting .364 and a batting title. and kenshin who i have no excuse for. wren has stuck to a game plan under his budget and has gotten the most out of the braves.

last time i checked the braves were in 1st place 2 months this year and actually went to the playoffs. a far cry from where they were when Wren got the job.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
7:16 pm

growth spurts in an already tall pitcher can cause problems. guys over 6′7″ or so were not in big demand B4 Johnson and a few others became stars. Teams were suspicious of real tall guys and their mechanics for decades.

DS1

October 25th, 2010
7:17 pm

nolie

And you were an old f@rt back then too!!!

:lol:

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
7:17 pm

But I’m probly just bitter about Kemp. I wasted a first round draft pick on the guy on my fantasy team. Sigh.

But that’s kinda the whole quandary, isn’t it? The kid was good enough to justify your picking him first (based on your no-doubt excellent analysis of his skillset :-) ), and proceeded to have a year that did not meet that forecast. Is he (or, heck, just about any player off a bad year; Jurrjens, for example) the guy worth a first-round fantasy pick or is he the guy who “wasted” that pick this season? Get that answer right often enough, you could make a good living, LOL.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
7:18 pm

s’true DS. I was born an old f@rt :cry:

DS1

October 25th, 2010
7:19 pm

If those tall guys can keep their mechanics together, they can be very formidable on the mound. Hard to pick up the ball with all those dangling arms and legs flying around the place.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
7:25 pm

Glen W,

No, Kemp is better right now, and Rasmus doesn’t have the ML service time (i.e. experience) to hint that he can keep up or improve on his pace to become what many think he will become. It’s purely speculation at this point. Think McLouth, or Kelly Johnson & how those players had initial success, then went through a phase in which they struggled in which you think they will never amount to their potential. Then you add that risk of having another left-handed bat in the lineup that you wagered a lot of top prospects or ML talented players that DOB mentioned.

Kemp, despite hitting awful last year in term’s of BA and OBP, still hit 28 HR’s. He is a very good OF’er with a very good arm, even despite his mental lapses on defense last season. Kemp had very solid OBP’s for 3 seasons before last year. He is also under team control until 2013. He’s making the remaining of his 2-year $10.95 mil contract next season before 2 years of arbitration, in which time we will have even more money to sign him. Kemp also has 4 series of postseason experience under his belt, compared to Rasmus who has 1 series (went 3-4 with 3 doubles against Los Angeles).

Not that I’m all into Kemp, but he just makes more sense in my opinion than does Rasmus. So does Hunter Pence and a couple of others….

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
7:26 pm

Seems like a mix between Kelly and McLouth in terms of potential and early career success, but really, another lefty? No way.

Oh boy….. Bobby’s, I enjoy your posts, but then you throw something like this out about Rasmus. I don’t see much McLouth in Colby. Kelly isn’t bad, so I don’t think that’s a bad comp. But Rasmus is a star, imo.

Other than Teheran, I don’t think the Braves have a “prospect” that they can build a trade for Rasmus around. Teams overvalue closers, though. So I do think Kimbrel + change might intrigue the Cards for Rasmus. Honestly though, I don’t see either Kemp or Rasmus coming our way.

Bossman Junior has a better chance….although he isn’t exactly the greatest clubhouse dude.

DS1

October 25th, 2010
7:28 pm

To bad Man-Ram can’t play the outfield. He’s probably in one of those “prove the world wrong” cycles of his………..

DS1

October 25th, 2010
7:30 pm

My money says FW pulls one out of the hat that surprises most of us on the blog.

Who was looking for Jair Jurrjens three years ago?

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
7:30 pm

It would be a mistake to trade JJ when his value is at his lowest now. He’ll return to form next year, and …

nolie–the other guy we got was Eli Morrero, a utility infielder, who was around 1 year like Drew. We also gave up Jason Marquis, who a serviceable starter in the Cardinals rotation for 4 years, and Ray King a lefty relief pitcher

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
7:31 pm

Didn’t McLouth have his big year at 26? Is Rasmus even 24?

LTBF

October 25th, 2010
7:33 pm

Good evening all
It appears N8 3:04 post is the only one who agrees with me on Jeff Francoeur. If we can get him cheap I don’t see how he could not help us. He had a season and half of being very good for us. Do you reaaly want to see Nate starting all next season for us? I hope Jeff has a great WS and proves everyone wrong about him.

Soph

October 25th, 2010
7:35 pm

If you prefer Kemp over Rasmus, I really have to wonder if you know anything about baseball. I mean, really.

Snooty much? Good grief.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
7:35 pm

Im on wrens side. the guy is going to put a team that will make us excited about spring and tho opener! i think he will cut some people comming up in the next couple weeks but it will open the payroll in order to fill our needs… trust me the braves fans will be excited for the season to start

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
7:35 pm

Hey DOB, I’ve been meaning to ask you, has Wren said something about Stephen Marek. He had an unbelievable year in AAA, will he get a shot in ST?

LTBF

October 25th, 2010
7:39 pm

Jeff in LF [he has a great arm] Rasmus in CF,I think we would be ok.

ncscoots

October 25th, 2010
7:40 pm

If you prefer Kemp over Rasmus, I really have to wonder if you know anything about baseball. I mean, really.

Actually, I prefer Kemp over Rasmus, too. For this team, at this point in time. Wonder as you wish.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
7:43 pm

Efrim

Yes. Comparing McLouth and Rasmus makes no sense. Look at the numbers when Rasmus is 22 and 23. And all his numbers improved in his 2nd season. He had around the same amount of playing time in both seasons. Rasmus is a 5 tool player that has tons of potential and has started his career off in the right direction. McLouth didnt come out til he was 26-27 and was never projected to be anything more than a Average Regular at best.

But I agree with most the Kemp is the better Fit for our team need. But Rasmus would be a huge upgrade too. And would be here longer.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
7:44 pm

SAY NO TO JEFF!!! i remember being at his last game as a brave in denver… i remember being loud and boo’ng him loud durring the starting lineups… i will never forget how much i wanted him gone at the time and i will never forget how much i loved to see him play badly for the mets… im over that frenchy guy… talk about a dumb trade to trade for a guy who you know isnt going to play well… a good arm? you could get a double A player who will hit with the same avg and throw the ball just as well as jeff… a good arm like that is a dime a dozen esp when young guys are trying to impress scouts…. DONT BRING JF7 Back!!!!

brian

October 25th, 2010
7:47 pm

mlbtraderumors.com has a good run down of LF and CF situations. The more I read that the more I think that Ellsbury is a more reasonable target than Rasmus. I would love Rasmus but he is likely to cost Infante/Prado and Delgado. Ellsbury is under team control for years and could be our leadoff hitter while playing good defense. We still need to get a bat for LF with this deal but I think we could get Ellsbury and still have major trade pieces available if we went for a big bat

JD

October 25th, 2010
7:47 pm

I still think you have to get Chipper to help with the batting this year… I know player/coaches are things of the past but I still think he’d be stand-up as a hitting instructor/coach. Maybe hire Rudy J away from the CWS (isn’t that where he landed?) since he clearly did a great job in Texas while there. One thing’s for sure, we have to pull the trigger on the hitting coach as soon as the Fall Classic is over to get any bang for the buck going into next year….especially if Nate stays.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
7:48 pm

SAY NO TO JEFF!!!

Hey!

JD

October 25th, 2010
7:49 pm

DOB, if you trade Kimbrel and Wags is retired, who closes? Venters?

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
7:50 pm

SAY NOT TO JEFF F…. SAY YES TO JEFF d!!!

Coach (2011 Fredi G. is a Go)

October 25th, 2010
7:50 pm

Rasmus to the Braves for a package including Prado?

Well gee whiz, why don’t I just trade my left lung for my right one. Talk about a trade accomplishing nothing, which is exactly why it won’t happen.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
7:50 pm

i mean say “no” to jeff f… say yes to jeff d

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
7:53 pm

BJ Upton? Anyone? Don’t love him, but I could maybe see it. Just not sure what they would want or whether or not Wren would want him in the clubhouse the next two seasons. I think a move to the NL would benefit him.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
7:54 pm

I actually think Rasmus is gonna be better than Kemp. Defensively Rasmus is awesome, and he is a great hitter, he makes great adjustments and actually hits lefties pretty well.

For the Braves case, even though Rasmus can hit lefties, the lineup will have too many of them and opposing managers just have to bring a lefty reliever and that’s a serious disadvantage to guys that don’t hit lefties well which is pretty much the whole lineup with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. Kemp is a better fit for Atlanta, he has cleanup hitter power and is right handed, plays CF, perfect.

Braves with Kemp

2B Martin Prado
RF Jason Heyward
3B Chipper Jones
CF Matt Kemp
C Brian McCann
SS Alex Gonzalez
1B Freddy Freeman
LF Nate Mclouth/Matt Diaz
Pitcher

vs Braves with Rasmus

2B Martin Prado
RF Jason Heyward
3B Chipper Jones
C Brian McCann
CF Colby Rasmus
SS Alex Gonzalez
1B Freddy Freeman
LF Nate Mclouth/Matt Diaz
Pitcher

I like the first lineup better, much more balanced.

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
7:55 pm

Thanks Eric :)

On a related note, I saw someone earlier say that we needed to add a Bat. I thought “What’s wrong with our Bat? He’s witty and knowledgeable”

Danga

October 25th, 2010
7:56 pm

Bringing back Jeff would be like watching a whole season of Ankiel. I just don’t think I could take it.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
7:57 pm

Efrim,

Thanks for the complement man. I enjoy your posts too.

I’m not so sure Rasmus is a guy you build a team around. He’s not superstar material in my opinion. We’ll see, but he’s got a long way to go. Many thought KJ had superstar potential, then he fizzled a bit. McLouth put up superstar stats, then he fizzled. Maybe these two still do as KJ rebounded quite nicely. But, think of recent guys that were superstars early in their careers that teams are building around (Longoria, Braun, Pujols), or guys a tier below.

Then, tell me you still think Rasmus fits that mold. I don’t. He’s a good young player, but for a guy you give up top prospects for, and one of your best hitters the team who is still cheap, possibly your near future closer as well, you better be getting 30HR, 100 RBI a year. Kemp is already there, and he’s stolen more than 30 bases twice. Rasmus hasn’t been there, and based on the struggles some young guys tend to have early in their careers (KJ, McLouth, Jay Bruce, heck even Kemp), do you really want to risk that much young talent & prospects for Rasmus? I don’t. He’s too risky IMO to trade that kind of talent for, then you say he’s LH too? No thanks.

bravesfanlm

October 25th, 2010
7:57 pm

Two trades the braves should make:
1st: Trade Jair Jurrjens and Mike Dunn to the Twins for Delmon Young
2nd: Trade Arodys Vizcaino, Christian Bethancourt, Mycal Jones, Cody Johnson to the Royals for Zack Greinke

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
7:58 pm

Why so much love for Franceour……I actually believe Nate Mclouth is better

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
7:58 pm

Hell No To Colby Rasmus…Haven’t we had enough with trading for Cardinals

JD. Screw, Stankiel etc…

With that Said, I can Taste Grady Sizemore, even though that happening is a long-shot and therefore I will not bring up anymore Armchair GM trade proposals….

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
7:58 pm

Who will Win Tonights Game…?

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:01 pm

And Did Anyone here the Rumors of Trading for Aaron Rowand on 680 The Fan…?

I believe Chuck and Oliver brought it up? But don’t quote me on that…I say Hell To The Naw on that Proposal as well…! We need to get younger in the OF…

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
8:02 pm

Efrim

Upton could be a possibility. He wouldnt cost as much as Rasmus or Kemp for sure. He isnt cleanup guy we need but 15-20 homers and 40+ SB and great Defense should be expected. A move to the NL could help him too. Depending on what they would want in return I’d like him. 38 doubles 18 homers 42 SB he had last year.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
8:03 pm

Aaron Rowand they’d have Wren with a sniper to his head if he considers that.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
8:04 pm

Lets go NY football Giants!

they are not my team but id love to see my cousins team eat it this week! ND The Yankees And The Cowboys… I was at a party with a lot of family this weekend… i had a blast asking everyone what time the yankee game was on… and every time someone left i loved telling them to have fun watching the yes network where @ least they know the bombers are going to win in a game that is 10 years old!

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
8:04 pm

T-hawkin:

NY Giants win IMO. Should be a great game though.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. is a Go)

October 25th, 2010
8:05 pm

Aaron Rowand is owed 12 million for both 2011 and 2012. Also, he lost his job to Andres Torres. Yea, Rowand is just what we need, another aging, overpaid baseball player.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
8:06 pm

Aaron Rowand is a guy you sign right before ST starts because you haven’t been able to make a trade for a bigger bat.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
8:06 pm

I mean trade for…not sign.

DS1

October 25th, 2010
8:09 pm

Aaron Rowand only works if the Giants pick up a lot of his salary. Or if you deal them KK and get some salary relief for year two.

JASon

October 25th, 2010
8:10 pm

Having to watch the sloppy, error-ridden Braves all the time made me forget how exciting baseball can be. The NLCS was such a great series.

The Giants have the best pitching in all of baseball (see regular season statistics). They overpowered the Phillies hitters. There is no reason to believe they won’t do the same to the Rangers, who are on par with the Phillies in terms of hitting (see regular season statistics). I don’t understand why everyone automatically assumes the better hitting team will win.

DS1

October 25th, 2010
8:11 pm

To be honest, the question of Chipper’s health is going to be as big as if not bigger than what we do in the outfield.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
8:13 pm

BJ Upton, after seeing the other options he is not so bad………Gold glove caliber defense, 40 SB speed, and 15-20 home run power.

Rays will trade him if they have the chance.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
8:13 pm

If Chipper decided to call it quits that would change the whole offseason big time.

Roman Gal

October 25th, 2010
8:13 pm

I mean, what do some of you think they’re going to ask for from the Braves in return for that kind of young player, Jordan Schafer and Mike Dunn?

Now let’s not get carried away here, DOB. ;)

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:14 pm

I hate The Giants but my Big Boy Gut Tells me that they Finish off Tony Blomo and The Cowturds

20-14 NY Wins, “Bank On It!”

DS1

October 25th, 2010
8:14 pm

If we get Andruw and Jeffy for the outfield, I wonder if Julio Franco would be available to back up Freeman? And maybe Blaine Boyer would be the vet for the pen that we so desparately need!!

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
8:14 pm

Having to watch the sloppy, error-ridden Braves all the time made me forget how exciting baseball can be. The NLCS was such a great series.

That is one of the most hilarious uses of an oxymoron I have ever read.

First, the Braves/Giants series was just as exciting to watch than the NLCS.

Second, did you not see all the errors & misplays in the NLCS????

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
8:15 pm

Question of Chipper’s health? Ummmm i didnt realize there was actually a question… im going out on a limb here… i doubt chipper will be healthy this year, maybe because oh i dont know…. he hasnt been healthy for the last 10 yrs. hmmm could that be why its not a question? does anyone actually question if chipper will be healthy? Im the biggest chipper fan on here but lets be honest.no question chipper will have health issues in 2011.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:16 pm

Coach (2011 Fredi G. is a Go)

“Aaron Rowand is owed 12 million for both 2011 and 2012. Also, he lost his job to Andres Torres. Yea, Rowand is just what we need, another aging, overpaid baseball player.”

Co-Sign! Now you are speaking my language! We need to get Younger in the OF

DS1

October 25th, 2010
8:16 pm

Logan Schafer for Colby Rasmus? What else are they sending over to sweeten the pot?

ugaaccountant

October 25th, 2010
8:16 pm

Myself? I’d rather have Wren make two trades or free agent signings for two 6-7 million dollar guys in LF and CF, then have him spend 15 million on a CF (or LF) and then go cheap at the other position.

I could not disagree with you more. We only need 1 new player in the outfield. Not 2. I’m sick and tired of signing several “ok” players like Melky, Glaus, Hinske, Saito, etc. and only having moderate success at best out of any of them. Sign somebody that a playoff contender actually should want in the middle of a lineup and the rest of our squad rounds out perfectly fine.

We’re Jason Werth, Freeman and Chipper away from being a legit contender.

ugaaccountant

October 25th, 2010
8:17 pm

BJ Upton would be very interesting. At the right price, i’d love him.

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
8:17 pm

Tomas

They might deal him. they have top prospect Desond Jennings ready to take over CF. But losing Crawford so i’m not sure. I’d be happy if we got Upton. He would add the elite speed element to the team which we lack. Still has loads of potential. This idea should be a backup plan if we cant add the powerbat we need.

Braveheart

October 25th, 2010
8:18 pm

Braveheart needs to revisit the primer on the value of present wins and future wins, I think.

Those who will get it already get it. Those who don’t won’t.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:18 pm

Eric From Albany NY

“I was at a party with a lot of family this weekend… i had a blast asking everyone what time the yankee game was on… ”

I was at a Bar watching/celebrating the Rangers win…

There were a lot of Ho-Sit Downs Thrown at the Yankee lineup! I damn near got into a fight with Bandwagon Yankees fans when I kept repeatly saying Yankees Suck

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:20 pm

Talk About Overpaid!

MFIKY is Gonna Get Broke Off This Offseason for the “Contract Year” He had

Roman Gal

October 25th, 2010
8:20 pm

But we do have some depth there. We ain’t got jack in CF and no one in the pipeline.

By “depth,” do you mean Infante? Because aside from him, I’m not seeing much depth there…

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
8:20 pm

I could do BJ Upton as well…

I’m not sure how available he is with Carl Crawford leaving, but the Rays could use some more pitching.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. is a Go)

October 25th, 2010
8:21 pm

Here is a trade worth doing.

KK for Juan Rivera straight up. Both are unwanted by their respective teams. Both have one year left on their contracts (KK at 6.6 million and Rivera at 5.25 million). The Halo’s could use another veteran starting pitcher and our Braves need an upgrade in LF. The only hitch is, both teams are trying to unload unwanted contracts, not swap them. It’s risky for sure and probably not doable unless both players can’t be traded elsewhere. But it does make sense need wise and the risk is minimal.

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
8:21 pm

Jeff in LF [he has a great arm] Rasmus in CF,I think we would be ok. _ LTBF

You might be okay but I would likely have a stroke. Face it man Francoeur’s stock is in the pink sheets.

”””””””””,,
‘,
‘,
‘,
””””””””””””,
‘,
‘,
‘, ,”””””’,
‘, ,,,,,,,,’ ‘,
‘,
‘,
‘,
‘,
‘,
Freefall

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:21 pm

They Also mention on Chuck and Oliver on 680 The Fan… The Idea of getting Nick Swisher…

That I might do but we all know that his power numbers will be Cut in 1/2 hitting here. Not to mention, I heard he is Streaky?

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
8:22 pm

jeffery d_

Thank you.

LTBF

October 25th, 2010
8:23 pm

Outta here for football. good night all.

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
8:24 pm

I’d love to get Ellsbury. Think about that ….. have him hit leadoff and steal a ton of bases and have Prado back hitting 2nd. Who knows, hit Heyward cleanup and I guess put Chipper back to his 3rd spot in the lineup.

Not ideal because I still think the team needs a true cleanup hitter, but damn, having that kinda speed at the top of the lineup can make a huge difference. Plus, like somebody said earlier, Ellsbury might not (probably wouldn’t) cost as much in players as Rasmus or Kemp.

So many scenarios, so much time to kill. That’s the offseason for a fan.

LTBF

October 25th, 2010
8:24 pm

Anyway may Jeff have a great WS.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
8:27 pm

“If/ When Chipper doesnt make it through 2011 or retires at the end of the season”

~ i believe the team works out a deal that will pay him $2mil
~ Chipper will take a job with the braves like tom glavine to work in the front office or scouting for 550K a yr for 20 yrs. this would pay him his money he is owed give him a job in baseball for a long time and give him chances to do things like coaching and remain a face of the braves like Aaron and murphy and glavine.

DOB what do you think about this plan?

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
8:27 pm

“Outta here for football” LTBF

Traitor.

Bat Masterson

October 25th, 2010
8:27 pm

Disregard that mess please.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. is a Go)

October 25th, 2010
8:28 pm

Frenchy will have a great WS….pom poms in hand, cheering from the bench where he belongs :)

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
8:28 pm

Tomahawkin

Swisher had 15 homers at Yankee Stadium and 14 on the Road. Also had 6 consecutive season with 21 or more homers. Career 358. OBP too. I like him as well.

Danga

October 25th, 2010
8:28 pm

I do have a soft spot for Grady Sizemore. He has been hurt for two seasons, but that is a chance I take. 7.5 million for next year…No one else has that kind of upside.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:29 pm

What Kind of Defense Does Ellisbury Have?

brian

October 25th, 2010
8:31 pm

could the Braves get both Ellsbury and Corey Hart this offseason? Would it help the OF?

Although I love Braun and Rasmus would be a huge get, they would cost too much to acquire as Coach so eloquently put it

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
8:31 pm

But in Swishers Case He Hit at 3 of the top 5 bandboxes in the AL while playing in the AL East…He will be lucky to hit 15 here…

ugaaccountant

October 25th, 2010
8:32 pm

550k a year for the next 20 years might be fair in terms of converting a 13 million payment into installments, but, he’d esentially be working for free the rest of his career. I think he’d prefer to go hunting before he worked for nothing.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
8:33 pm

VaBravesFan, If I’m the Rays I’d have a fire sale…….They have money issues they’re losing Crawford, Pena, Benoit, and Rafael Soriano, they’re whole bullpen is basically going to free agency…..Upton is in line to make more than 4 million.

If I’m them I’d trade BJ Upton, Jason Barlett, and James Shields.

For BJ Upton I think the Braves should offer something like Stephen Marek and Mauro Gomez for BJ Upton.

ugaaccountant

October 25th, 2010
8:33 pm

Swisher is the kind of hitter that wouldn’t be effective in Atlanta. It’s a hard ballpark for most casual power hitters. Swisher isn’t an elite slugger.

Coach (2011 Fredi G.a is a Go)

October 25th, 2010
8:34 pm

TnBrian, I agree with you. The running game has been virtually non-existent since Furcal left. But my concerns are that Fredi Gonzalez may not push the envelope. His Marlin teams in 2008 and 2009 didn’t run much more than our Braves did. However, Hanley Ramirez did steal 35 back in 2008.

Braveheart

October 25th, 2010
8:34 pm

Having to watch the sloppy, error-ridden Braves all the time made me forget how exciting baseball can be.

Didn’t see McCann win the All Star Game? Didn’t see Ankiel’s homer splash down? Weren’t in attendance for Hinske’s homer? Weren’t in attendance when Bobby came out and waved to the fans? Weren’t in attendance for Conrad’s grand slam? Weren’t in attendance for Heyward’s Opening Day homer? Weren’t in attendance for any game when Billy Wagner strutted out in the 9th from the pen? Weren’t in attendance the night they beat Strasburg? Weren’t in attendance when they smacked around Santana? Weren’t in attendance when Willie Harris got 6 hits (just ask Jerome how exciting that was)? Didn’t watch any of their other comeback wins either I’m guessing.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

October 25th, 2010
8:36 pm

people have done that type of deal in the past
its not un heard of. if it were up to him he would walk away from the 13m but the players union wouldnt love that. i think they could come up with some sort of deal like that maybe even dropping some of the money off… its not like he is playing the game like he said he would when he signed…. those contracts have been done before

steveP

October 25th, 2010
8:36 pm

Anyone see Yahoo’s Tim Brown Hot stove article saying Braves might want Prince Fielder? I don’t see that happening. Also, I live in the Tampa area…I would not want BJ Upton on the Braves.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
8:38 pm

Cory Harrilchak having a day……….Braves farm hand is 4 for 4…He is an outfielder and guess what, he is left handed.

ijudgenot

October 25th, 2010
8:40 pm

TnBrian

October 25th, 2010
3:04 pm
I’m with you DOB on Rasmus. It’d take what you mentioned to get him, but he is perfect for what we need, or a ton of teams out there need.

Now if that little piece of speculation had come from this board instead of the originator of this board, I would laugh, but you have to assume that DOB has some insider info. That makes it dangerous. Let me see, your closer just retired and the guy that looked like his heir apparent gets traded along with the pitcher you traded your no. 1 starter last year for. WTF! I am sure Rasmus is a decent player but give me a break. Why plug one hole and open 2 more?

Jeff R

October 25th, 2010
8:40 pm

Prado needs to stay. Kimbrel is critical as closer. Rasmus would be a super addition, but not at the expense of the Braves’ very talented, hard playing everyday 2B or 3B, Martin Prado (3B depending on what happens to Chipper). And with Wagner retiring, the Braves need Kimbrel closing games.

brian

October 25th, 2010
8:43 pm

Kimbrel is not going anywhere

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
8:43 pm

ijudgenot: Again, I’ll repeat that I don’t think the Braves would trade Kimbrel. I’m telling you what someone close to the situation in St. Louis said would likely be targeted by Cards if the Braves come calling for Rasmus. That’s all. Just because the Cardinals ask for Kimbrel is no reason to get all stressed from this end. i can guarantee you, just about any team the Braves talk to about a trade for a possible outfielder will bring up one or more names from the group of Teheran, Kimbrel, Venters and Delgado. Pitching is what just about everyone wants, and the Braves have more top young pitching than just about any team in the majors.

Venice Jim

October 25th, 2010
8:44 pm

Damn, Eli… :(

VaBravesFan

October 25th, 2010
8:44 pm

Tomahawkin and ugaaccountant

That is true about Swisher in Turner. But I still think Swisher could provide 20-25 homers in a season.

The Abs Man

October 25th, 2010
8:48 pm

I live in San Diego and see Kamp play a lot.
Braves should stay away from him at all costs.

Kemp is a rat.
R-A-T….
A good buddy calls Kemp, “Milton Bradley Light.”

Kemp does have loads of talent. But is as much rat as Melky and Alex-G put together.

And that’s one HUGE rat-rating.

DHD

October 25th, 2010
8:48 pm

The AJC is notorious for former player articles. We get bombarded with Vick articles almost everyday. What’s with this fascination? I don’t give 2 flips about former players. I care about OUR players.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
8:53 pm

Tomas, Marek should be one of those competing for final spot or two in bullpen. If not out of camp, then I’d guess we’ll see him at some point during season.

Bobby's Cox

October 25th, 2010
8:54 pm

The Abs Man,

I live in LA and see Kemp play a hell of a lot more than you do.

Dude has talent. Just saying…

The Abs Man

October 25th, 2010
8:54 pm

Don’t know about how many Braves’ fans feel…but I have no confidence whatsoever Wren will make smart trades.

Wren will get suckered and out-manned just like Cox did every single game all last season.
Trade Prado—are you insane? Prado was Braves’ best player last season in every way, shape and form.

Trade Jair–are you insane? Jair is a stud–2010 was juct a cluster—- of injuries and bad luck….Sure, he needs to drop a few lbs…..not the end of the world. Do you forget how much a total athlete Jair is? Polished and power-pitchers like this are tough to find….

jeffrey d

October 25th, 2010
8:56 pm

Who will Win Tonights Game…?

It Won’t be Tony Blowmo and the Cowturds, BANK ON IT!!

The Abs Man

October 25th, 2010
8:57 pm

Bobby’s Cox–No dispute concerning Kemp’s skills and ability.

I question his ego, his desire, his lack of hustle, his basic IQ, body language on field that makes Yunel look good…

Mickey Mantle

October 25th, 2010
8:58 pm

Does anybody care what chippie does. I don’t and am sick of the redneck white trash.

Ted + Jane=Me

October 25th, 2010
9:00 pm

Frenchy has not done anything since he left ATL. If we had to start again with the trade, I would trade him again.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
9:01 pm

@Mickey Mantle…

OUCH!

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:03 pm

Marquis was no loss, he won a few games over the years but has always given up a lot of runs, and he and Leo were at extreme outs. The reliever was a very off and on guy, also no loss. Wainwright was the prize even if he had been less than they expected in the high minors. Their pitching had seen him and liked him and in that case he tutned out to be right, but it took a few years for him to mature. Overall the Braves have been very good at trading promising prospects who never really amount to all that much. This time it went differently. hey, stuff happens. without the trade they don’t sniff the playoffsthat year, and our precious 14 straight rwcord would not be. As it turned out they did not win it all, but that is only known now by hindsight too.as many of the playoffs this decade have proven, once you get in anything can happen….a crapshoot even ;)

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
9:04 pm

Don’t be suprised if Wren pulls the LF platoon thing again next year? GRRRRR!!!!

If that happens I’d rather be open to the option of playing the O-Dawg (Infante) there Full time…

AZBravoFan

October 25th, 2010
9:05 pm

What’s the knock on Matt Young? Looking at his minor league numbers he hits for average, walks more than K’s, lots of doubles, triples and SB’s….and he once won the Southern Leauge “Best Hustler” award. Doesn’t solve the power issue, but seems like he would be nice to have at the top of the order…

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:08 pm

Maybe these two still do as KJ rebounded quite nicely

huh?? KJ stunk away from ‘zona.

Ted + Jane=Me

October 25th, 2010
9:17 pm

Were’s the love Mickey!!

Ted + Jane=Me

October 25th, 2010
9:17 pm

DOB, any truth to the KK trade for Matt Murton?

Bravefaninok

October 25th, 2010
9:18 pm

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
9:04 pm

Don’t be suprised if Wren pulls the LF platoon thing again next year? GRRRRR!!!!

I say give Wren a while ,He has rebuilt the rotation(it was a mess when he took over)
He shored up the pen this season,put together a playoff run for Bobbys last season.
He has publicly stated he plans to fix the outfield this offseason,give him a chance he seems to have made some pretty good progress as the GM so far…..90 wins in 2010 from 72 in 2008

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:20 pm

Im the biggest chipper fan on here but lets be honest.no question chipper will have health issues in 2011.

yeah right, all the negative hyperbole about the last 10 years certainly shows it. Why rip the hell out of a guy with gross exaggerations and then turn around and say you are a huge fan. what a load, and who do you think is gonna believe it?

count_schemula

October 25th, 2010
9:21 pm

This blog is exactly why the Braves need to stand pat and break out the wallet. I really think that we add Crawford and resign Hinske, and we’ve done all we need to do. We can’t trade Prado or Kimbrel, and I would not even trade JJ. What if Lowe gets blisters, or Hudson pulls an oblique. Pitching is a strength of this club, and it hard to build up the kind of pitching depth we have. Look at the Giants. And with just Chipper and Prado we would have beat the Giants.

Alaska Braves Fan

October 25th, 2010
9:21 pm

We need a genuine hitter in the outfield, but we must hold on to our excellent young pitchers. Finding a balance ain’t too darn easy, is it? That’s why Wren just isn’t paid enough, especially since the amount of money available to him is quite limited. He’s a creative guy, and I believe he’ll come up with a solution, but it simply cannot be optimal, can it?

ABF

FloridaStateinDC

October 25th, 2010
9:21 pm

Jair Jurrjens for Rasmus straight up…

Daybed Wagmoe

October 25th, 2010
9:27 pm

bravesfanlm — i really hope the braves don’t follow your advice, because those are not good trade suggstions imo.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
9:27 pm

Freddie Freeman has been shut down for rest of Ariz. Fall Lgue w that left thumb sprain. They’ll splint it for now, he’ll return home to California, then come back Atlanta to begin rehab in 3 wks.

Not a surgery thing, just an injury similar to Heyward’s that’ll probably take a good 4-6 weeks of rest and rehab. Since it’s not during the season, they can treat it, no since pushing him in fall league.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
9:28 pm

FloridaStateinDC

“Jair Jurrjens for Rasmus straight up…”

Are You Kidding? Hell No To That! Double J was a Cy Young Award Candidate 2 years ago…I want a better player or a teams farm system

Gary O

October 25th, 2010
9:29 pm

My only concern if we trade for Rasmus, is we are looking at a lineup that includes Heyward, Rasmus, Brian, Nate, and Freeman. That’s 5 left handers. Chipper is a switch hitter, so at best, we would have 2 righties in our lineup (AGon and Prado).

And when we get to the playoffs, it would give the opposing team an advantage with their lefties (like what the Giants did to the Phillies).

How-eva, we know the Braves are looking for OF help, but the FA market is thin. But what if they trade Prado OR Infante for an OF? Then they could find a 2B or utility infielder on the free agent market. And that might be easier to do than signing an OF.

Emf

October 25th, 2010
9:30 pm

Rasmussen would be a great pick up but the price will be steep in young pitching.

The thing that amazes me about Frenchy is how lucky he has been over the past two years. First, the Braves trade him, within the division, to just about the only team in MLB which would even consider picking up his option (in mho he owes FW a big thank you for that trade).

He does just well enough that he gets his option picked up. After falling into yet another deep slump, he complains about being benched, apparently oblivious to just how mediocre his numbers are. He then gets traded to a team which makes it to the WS.

You get the sense he will get a ring and talk about it forever like he was a big part of it.

I want to like the guy but something about him just rubs me the wrong way. I also wonder what would have happened to him if he did not have such early success. Would he have learned to make adjustments? Listen to his coaches?

I hope he figures it all out one day, but time is not on his side and my guess is he will have a hard time finding a job this winter, even if he does have a ring.

Frenchy will be the first to get a ring but Mac will be the last one standing.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:32 pm

Don’t worry about it T’Hawkin, no way in hell St Louis would trade Rasmus for just JJ at this point.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
9:33 pm

What about Derosa. The Giants are pretty crowded and they way they played with out him he may be expendable with a year left on his contract. I know hes been injury prone but would help the offense. Add Derosa and then trade for a top of the order bat and you’ve got a solid offense.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:33 pm

who is Rasmussen?

Kat

October 25th, 2010
9:34 pm

Nice blog update, thanks David! I’m really interested to see who they bring in for their hitting coach. With Baylor going to Arizona the speculation continues.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:34 pm

D’Ro? another former Brave heard from :lol:

Bama Brave

October 25th, 2010
9:36 pm

Carl Crawford in LEFT FIELD!

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:36 pm

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:37 pm

not happening Bama

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:38 pm

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:38 pm

DAMN, BAYLOR to ‘ZONA, ADAM LaROCHE will become a 40/110/.900 OPS guy.

One-Eyed Mac

October 25th, 2010
9:38 pm

Baylor’s getting a two-year contract with the Dbacks. If I recall correctly, Braves don’t give coaches multi-year contracts. That may have hurt us in this case, although it’s possible Baylor would have preferred the Dbacks anyway.

Here’s another name for hitting coach that intrigues me….Julio Franco.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:38 pm

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
9:39 pm

DOB

Do you think that Boston will make Ellsbury available since they will already have a crowded outfield. Not sure what they’d be interested in, maybe pitching and a guy like Infante.

brian

October 25th, 2010
9:39 pm

I can see a lot of people asking for Kimbrel and Teheran in trades hoping that they can settle for Venters and Delgado. The Braves will be looking to move Dunn and Hoover, with possibly moving Vizcaino for the right player

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:40 pm

Hey FRANCO can’t be our hitting coach. He’s already somebody else’s manager.

Just a thought.....

October 25th, 2010
9:41 pm

Any thoughts about maybe the Braves interviewing Milt Thompson for hitting coach?

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:42 pm

I’m betting the BRAVES would love to move their ENTIRE SP staff from GWINNETT; viz, REDMOND, GUSTAFSON, REYNOSO, ORTEGANO, and what’s his name……..

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:43 pm

DUNN and HOOVER for RASMUS……..Dunn.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:43 pm

One-Eyed Mac

October 25th, 2010
9:48 pm

I wonder if any of the hitting coach candidates will be bothered by the fact that TP will still be around. Just might make things a little uncomfortable for both of them.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
9:48 pm

I want Don Baylor back as hitting Coach…Do It NOW Frank W…!

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:49 pm

CORY HARRILCHAK is becoming the new JORDAN SCHAFER. 28 AB – 13 H; 3 BB – 3 SO; 1 SB – 1 CS; .531 OBP, .679 SLG, .464 BA, 1.210 OPS. DAMN.

Tomahawkin

October 25th, 2010
9:50 pm

One-Eyed Mac

“Baylor’s getting a two-year contract with the Dbacks.”

Dammit That Sucks!

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:50 pm

CORY HARRILCHAK is becoming the new JORDAN SCHAFER rich

man, talk about damning with faint praise :roll:

Venice Jim

October 25th, 2010
9:50 pm

A 64 yard punt is usually a good thing – unless it’s run back 88 yards… :evil:

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
9:50 pm

Are there any concern about Freeman’s thumb heading into ST

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:50 pm

One-Eyed Mac

October 25th, 2010
9:48 pm
I wonder if any of the hitting coach candidates will be bothered by the fact that TP will still be around. Just might make things a little uncomfortable for both of them.

Uncomfortable…….very likely.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
9:53 pm

DOB

Do you think that Boston will make Ellsbury available since they will already have a crowded outfield. Not sure what they’d be interested in, maybe pitching and a guy like Infante.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
9:54 pm

Ellsbury is still a question mark IMO. I wouldn’t mind getting him, but I wouldn’t give up much either

Skeeterleg

October 25th, 2010
9:54 pm

I’m happy for Francoeur because he seems like a good guy. _ Shaun

Maybe (Franceour) is a good guy. None the less, he’s the guy that was un-coachable, claimed the Braves had soured their relationship with him when they sent him down to work on his swing. Ripped the Braves when they traded him to the Mets, demanded a trade from the Mets, then ripped them when they obliged. A matter of perspective I suppose. Bat Masterson

but his smile is like a ray of sunshine from heaven, therefore….good guy

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
9:56 pm

DOB, since everyone else is throwing names at you, what do you think of Bossman Junior? Sounds like the Rays will shop him, and I don’t think he’d cost as much as Rasmus/Kemp. I think a move from the AL East would help as well. 2 years left until free agency and he just earned 3 million in year one of arb. What do you think?

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
9:57 pm

I miss Braves baseball…..

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
9:58 pm

PASTORNICKY 1-4, 2B, BA falls to .429 in 21 AB. Meanwhile, HARRILCHAK goes 4-4 with his first HR and he plays……………..o-o-o-o-o,…OF.

GEARRIN goes two in relief gives up two BB’s, otherwise, nada (0.00 ERA).

MIKE BROADWAY goes1.0, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, as his ERA swells to double digits (10.13).

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
10:00 pm

If I’m the Cards, I’d start with asking for Teheran. Won’t happen, but I imagine they would try. I just see them and the Dodgers asking for the world. Who would replace Kemp in the Dodger lineup? And Rasmus is so young and four years away from free agency coming off of a very, very good year for a centerfielder. Despite their off the field issues, I just don’t see either being moved unless it’s for a major league player with equal value. Like, I could see Boston getting involved with Colby by trading Jacoby plus 1 or 2 prospects. Problem for problem sort of thing.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:01 pm

roja

October 25th, 2010
10:01 pm

Woooooooooooo Hooooooooooooooo FRENCHY!!!!!! You deserve to be in the World Series.

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
10:02 pm

nolie, if the price is fair, would you like BJ Upton in center?

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:02 pm

Nolie

I think Ellsbury would be the easiest of all the targets to acquire. Boston is planning on pursuing Crawford and have Cameron for CF. They don’t have any glaring holes but could probably use another young SP when Daisuke becomes a FA. Then again they may be interested in moving Cameron more since Ellsbury is still controllable for the foreseeable future. Didn’t watch a lot of Boston games this year so I don’t know how Cameron performed. I do know that someone is going to be the odd man out there. Cameron is RH but his talent is declining. If he could perform to his usual stats then he’d be a great pick up. I think there was a lot of concern about him last offseason on this blog.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:04 pm

FALL BALL:

Only ARIZONA and PUERTO RICO had games today. Only BRAVES playing were in ‘ZONA.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
10:04 pm

Are there any concern about Freeman’s thumb heading into ST Rob from SC

Rob from SC, I don’t think there’s any concern right now. If it were an injury that might require surgery, that’d be another matter altogether. But Lourie, who is one of the best, isn’t recommending that at all.

Right now, I don’t think they have any cause for concern for a sprained thumb that doesn’t require surgery and has four months to heal.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:05 pm

Efrim

The problem I see in trading for Kemp is our strength is our pitching depth. LA doesn’t really need pitching so that hurts our chances IMO.

Kat

October 25th, 2010
10:09 pm

Touchdown Giants.. thankfully!

Rob from SC

October 25th, 2010
10:09 pm

The Dodgers really need pitching

brian

October 25th, 2010
10:10 pm

Giants turn the ball over 3 times early on the road yet are leading by 1 with one minute left in the first half. Cowboys really are sorry. Good bye Wade Phillips.

crabapplejoe

October 25th, 2010
10:12 pm

Frenchy in the World Series….that’s wonderful….the kids been on a karma trip since he was born…the Braves should have continued to tap into it.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:14 pm

The Dodgers really need pitching Rob

they already signed Lilly didn’t they?

McFann O O – 6

October 25th, 2010
10:15 pm

Rob from SC I miss Braves baseball…..

Me, toooooooooo!! 8O

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
10:15 pm

Efrim, I agree with you on B.J. Upton. I really like him, despite the average slipping all the way to .237 this season. Dude has such enormous talent, and a couple of years ago during the postseason I thought he was poised to be the next emerging superstar.

He’s still only 26, has stolen at least 42 bases for three straight seasons, and hit 18 homers this season to go with 38 doubles and 4 triples. Like you, I think he’s worth a gamble if available. I mean, this is a guy, who, at age 22 in 2007, hit .300 with 24 homers and a .386 OBP and .894 OPS.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:16 pm

The Dodgers already have 4 SP set for next year. They’re not going to trade their star CF for another SP when they can plug in a young guy for their #5.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:17 pm

Nolie

Right now the Dodgers have Billingsley, Kershaw, Kuroda and Lilly locked into the rotation.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:17 pm

EPHRIM:

Three mill, ARB 3, FA 2013, UPTON. Let’s see in 2010 compared to the past three years, AB’s steady, hits fell, but HR’s went up. Doubles and triples steady. BB falling past three, SO’s steadily rising; a product of his swinging more freely; thefts steady, and CS falling dramatically Games played (154) and errors (5) very steady over his last three and the errors are very low for the games played. .738 OPS last three averaged. Good.

Looks a darned sight better than what we have now.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:18 pm

DOB

Do you think the Rays would make Upton available knowing that Pena and Crawford are leaving as FA.

brian

October 25th, 2010
10:18 pm

It will be fun to see what Wren does with the OF this year. Does he break the bank and go for Rasmus? Or does he do something less expected. If Rasmus cost Delgado and Infante, maybe he goes for it. I think he could get Ellsbury relatively cheaply (Dunn and Hoover/Mycal Jones/B-list prospect). Then it just depends what else is out there – do you go for Corey Hart, Willingham, Uggla or one of the usual suspects in LF?

Ellsbury
Prado
Chipper
Hart/Uggla/Willingham
McCann
Heyward
Gonzo
Freeman
P

Possibly leaving intact the rotation of Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, Jurrjens, Beachy/Minor
bullpen: Kimbrel, Venters, Moylan, Marek, etc

Mr Charlie

October 25th, 2010
10:18 pm

The story of the series is the ex-brave Rangers players who were part of the Tex deal, and how Furman Bisher wrote an out of left article lambasting the braves for trading them that led to his “retirement” the next day. Looks like the old coot was right after all.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:20 pm

I’m biased against guys who hit 230 and have OBP under 340, Upton has been pretty crappy for two plus years now, and his runs saved value from Fielder’s Bible in CF for 2010 was -9. I just can’t say I am at all interested in him now. I think he might end up being one of those great physical guys who have a good year once in a while but overall are a pretty hefty disappointment.
I might be totally wrong and he might turn it around, but going with the odds IMO he would have to be real real cheap

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
10:23 pm

My thoughts exactly, DOB. What a year he had in 2007, followed up by a lesser, but still very good 2008 and a remarkable postseason that year too. I’m not sure what it would cost, but he would at the very least, add great baserunning and defense to a team that needs it.

Venice Jim

October 25th, 2010
10:23 pm

Very happy with a 4 point lead after all the early turnovers…

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:23 pm

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:24 pm

Looks like the old coot was right after all.

one great post season does not a star make. ask Lempke.
the only guy worth fretting about if Feliz. Andrus maybe someday. but he has really crappy hitting stats for playing half his games in such a great hitters park. certainly would not have improved out offense this year, and at least this year both Andrus and Gonzo had better fielding seasons too

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
10:24 pm

Do you think the Rays would make Upton available knowing that Pena and Crawford are leaving as FA. P’cola Brave

P’cola Brave: That’s a good question, and I don’t have an answer. But I will check tomorrow to try to find out from someone who would know.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:25 pm

Brian

I would love to get an Uggla, Hart, or Willingham. I think Hart is a slim chance since he just signed that contract. Willingham and Uggla are both the RH bat we need for the 4 hole. But will the Marlins part with Uggla before moving into the new stadium. Do you acquire him and discuss moving Prado to LF.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:25 pm

Efrim Uptons defense was not good this year at all

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 25th, 2010
10:27 pm

Upton would be a nice addition…if he’s avaliable and our GM can swing a deal.

nolie – to reply to your comment about Prado…I think he’ll hit for more power. I mean, before he went out with his injury, he was probably in line for 20-22 HR’s.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:29 pm

Nolie

I’m with you on Upton. Great physical talent with alot of tools but it seems so often they never figure it out and just have that great season once in awhile. Wouldn’t be opposed to him if we got someone to play left that could hit at the top of the order like a Podsednik.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:29 pm

I don’t think WREN gives in to get an OF’er. He gave up a bit in this pennant race. I think to give BOBBY a chance at a final WS, but too many injuries conspired against him. Under normal circumstances, I don’t think he goes all DEREK LOWE on us signing a high priced OF player for max years in FA, or gives up the house in a trade ala TEIXEIRA or J.D. DREW. Steady as she goes is FW’s motto I believe.

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
10:30 pm

I’m biased against guys who hit 230 and have OBP under 340, Upton has been pretty crappy for two plus years now

Yeah, there are definitely concerns in his game. But this past year he finished with a 105 OPS+. That ain’t terrible. It’s bizarre that he has fallen off after having two very good seasons in 07-08. Change of scenery might be a good thing and the switch from the AL to the NL would have to help too. If it didn’t cost too much, I think he would be a good option, imo.

David O'Brien

October 25th, 2010
10:30 pm

Right now the Dodgers have Billingsley, Kershaw, Kuroda and Lilly locked into the rotation. — P’Cola Brave

P’cola Brave: I think Kuroda is actually a free agent; 2010 was the final year of his three-year deal with Dodgers, and they aren’t likely to offer arb after he made $12 mill last season. As a Japanese veteran at end of his contract, he gets free agency despite lacking the service time normally required.

Unless Dodgers signed him in past month and I missed it. I don’t think they did, though.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:32 pm

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:25 pm
Efrim Uptons defense was not good this year at all

5 E in 154 games is bad? Just askin’. What’s good……four?

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:33 pm

I think he’ll hit for more power. Frank

maybe, but I’m not sold on that. he really does not have a HR swing, especially if he goes back to leadoff or #2. I’d certainly prefer that he keep up the BA and moving runners along than hit a few more homers and lose that. we’ll see.

chilidog75

October 25th, 2010
10:35 pm

If the Rangers wanted to trade us Josh Hamilton for David Ross and McLouth — would we do it? Or would the fact that he’s a lefty make it a no-go?

Efrim

October 25th, 2010
10:35 pm

nolie, yeah, but was it really bad in any other year? I looked in James handbook but couldn’t find his +/- readings for years past….

McFann O O – 6

October 25th, 2010
10:36 pm

DOB 38 doubles

Keep talking, you’ve got my tongue hanging out…

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
10:37 pm

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:37 pm

5 E in 154 games is bad? Just askin’. What’s good……four? rich

I can tell you are an old fogey ;)
it’s not judged by # of errors alone. Every play is analyzed, he didn’t get to and handle balls that he should have. , -9 runs saved is not good. It was quite a comedown from previous years and is an other indication that he might be having mental concerns.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:38 pm

DOB

Just looked it up and you are correct. He is a FA. Didn’t realize that. Well the Dodgers may have pitching issues seeming I can’t think of any young guys in the waiting to step up out there. But moving Kemp in an offense that already lost Manny and has possible non-tenders in Martin and Loney, just doesn’t make sense on their part.

glord1

October 25th, 2010
10:39 pm

1. Kuroda is a free agent.
2. Upton has absolutely worn out his welcome in Tampa. They have no reason to move him except they believe he is a cancer. He is very talented but I would not give up much for him.
3. They Braves are not going to trade Teheran. Order of pitching prospects likely to be traded for an OF 1. Vizcaino 2. Beachy 3. Delgado 4. Minor 5. Teheran.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:41 pm

no Ef it wasn’t B4, but to me that could be an indication that he just ain’t paying enough attention, perhaps letting his hitting problems affect his whole game, and he does look lost at the plate a lot anymore. It’s a gamble, but IMO they will want more for him based on his two decent seasons and his athleticism than he will be worth at this point. Like I said, I might be wrong about it, but so far here my predictions have been pretty close to reality.

brian

October 25th, 2010
10:43 pm

glord – I agree with that list except I would just leave Teheran off that list. You are right – he will not be traded. If the Braves trade Jurrjens which seems to be less likely then the Braves would have to keep both Beachy and Minor

Bravefaninok

October 25th, 2010
10:43 pm

Just say no to Willingham…..he is a DL stint in waiting! 108 gms in 2010 finished the year on the DL.

brian

October 25th, 2010
10:44 pm

agree nolie – the Rays will ask a ton for Upton

glord1

October 25th, 2010
10:44 pm

chilidog75

October 25th, 2010
10:35 pm
If the Rangers wanted to trade us Josh Hamilton for David Ross and McLouth — would we do it? Or would the fact that he’s a lefty make it a no-go?

I would trade those two guys (and I love Ross) for Hamilton even if Hamilton was made to hit RH all year. I think JH could out hit Nate if he switched sides of the plate at this point.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
10:45 pm

The Braves attendance was up this year, right? Lets get these corporate jackals at Liberty to up the payroll budget. With the TV contracts, and attendance boost—they gotta be making money on the Braves.
No way they’re losing money. Get them to spike the payroll by about $15-$20 million and we can sign Jason Werth.
DOB- How about an investigative piece on how much Liberty Media makes on the Braves? I know that information is available one way or another We are one of the bigger media markets in the U.S and we have a team payroll that doesn’t reflect that.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:45 pm

true glord. I’m not all that far from Tampa and we have their minor league camp, lots of folks are fed up with him

glord1

October 25th, 2010
10:47 pm

The Braves like Delgado and Minor alot. Other teams like Delgado as well. He would be the top prospect in many teams whole minor league system. He is kind of the forgotten man in the Braves farm to fans but not to the Braves.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:47 pm

I should have said spring training camp and a minor league team

glord1

October 25th, 2010
10:49 pm

Braves attendence up almost 6% this year. I heard that is probably only about 4 – 6 in increased revenue. DOB might know.

glord1

October 25th, 2010
10:51 pm

Should have said 4 – 6 million in revenue.

Steve from OH

October 25th, 2010
10:52 pm

I’d trade for Rasmus in a heartbeat. That dude is a superstar in the making, in my book. Can you imagine having him and Heyward in our OF for the next few years? That’s your OF fix, bigtime. He’ll cost a big price, but it’ll be worth it. I’m not as worried about the lefty heavy thing as some; he OPSed .810 against lefties this year so he’s not worthless against them. However, that makes Chipper’s return a must and Prado needs to come back healthy and ready to go. We could also re-sign Diaz and platoon him and Nate in left to give us some extra versatility against lefties (we could also try to give him a 1B glove, too, if you’re adventurous).

I’d give up quite a bit to get him. No Prado, no Teheran though. But I’d let Infante go if I had to.

Steve from OH

October 25th, 2010
10:54 pm

Probably looking at least at Delgado-Dunn-Infante plus a lower-level prospect for Rasmus. That fills the Cards’ need for middle infield help, along with giving them a good lefty ‘pen arm and a top-flight pitching prospect for their stud CF.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:55 pm

much of Upton’s previously defensive value was from his arm, and that was off in 2010 for some reason. for all his speed he often does not get to all the balls that he should from what I’ve seen and also from Bill James and Fielding Bible stats

nolie

October 25th, 2010
10:57 pm

you could be right about Rasmus Steve, IMO it’s still too early to be sure about that but he does show a lot of promise so far

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
10:57 pm

Nolie I was down your way a few weeks ago. Down in Fort Myers.

glord1

October 25th, 2010
11:03 pm

Nolie – Where do you live. I have family in Bradenton and my son and I do a spring training week every year. The last two years we have done Clearwater, Bradenton, Lakeland, Port Charlotte, Dunedin, and both teams in Kissimmee. Love Spring Training.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
11:05 pm

Everybody stop wasting your time yearning for Colby Rasmus. Ain’t gonna happen.
Cards need his lefty bat to balance their lineup with righthanded hitting Albert and Matt Holiday. They have him cheaply for four years. They’ll patch up any differences with LaRussa.
Yes, he’s an excellent young player. But his addition would make life tougher for our three left-handed hitting starters. There is no doubt the Braves would see more lefty pitching. It would bring down Heywards numbers–espeically power numbers, McCann too. And it would stunt Freeman’s development.
Did you see all the lefty pitching the Giants threw at Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Ibanez. They threw 4 leftys in a row in the clincher. That kind of stuff would await us if we add Rasmus.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:06 pm

yeah thats only about 35 or so miles away. those guys got the Twins and BoSox

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:07 pm

Port Charlotte glord

Braveheart

October 25th, 2010
11:08 pm

KJ had a .754 OPS on the road this year. The differential between home and road splits by the average NLer was 47 points this season. The average NLer had a .700 OPS on the road, and a .747 OPS at home. So, KJ’s road split was actually 54 points higher than the average NLer’s road split, and was actually 7 points higher than the average NLer’s home split. That’s not very good evidence to support the argument that he stunk on the road. He also hit in a division where his team played 72 games against San Diego, San Fran, Colorado, and the Dodgers, who all had good to really good pitching staffs.

chilidog75

October 25th, 2010
11:09 pm

So the NLCS would await us if we sign Rasmus?
I’m all for it!

chilidog75

October 25th, 2010
11:10 pm

Braveheart … and San Diego, San Fran and LA are all REALLY tough to hit in.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:11 pm

I agree that Rasmus is highly unlikely PO,

brian

October 25th, 2010
11:12 pm

Cowboys are done

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:12 pm

What does everybody think of Mike Cameron. I know he spent a lot of time on DL last year but for the most part hes always healthy. Not bad for a one year filler.

brian

October 25th, 2010
11:13 pm

no to Mike Cameron.

richbrave

October 25th, 2010
11:13 pm

nolie:

Yeah, time for beddie-bye for this old fogey. You will have to acquaint me with JAMES’ BIBLE.

Makes me laugh. KING JAMES’ version of the BIBLE was used in the CHURCH OF ENGLAND, and by royal edict in 1685, everyone had to worship in that church. As my mother’s forebearers had left FRANCE immediately after the revocation of the EDICT of NANTES, they immediately departed for the colonies, GRAND-DAD, DAD and FOUR SONS. They were BAPTIST fundamentalists. Whenever my mother used a swear word ( which was rare), she attributed it to her strict BAPTIST upbringing.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
11:15 pm

Nolie, thank you. I kind of like the BJ Upton idea. The Braves need speed and power.

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
11:15 pm

ugaaccountant

October 25th, 2010
11:15 pm

glord1 – we’ve been drastically underfunded for years. Liberty is doing their contractual minimum on payroll and not a penny more.

Braveheart

October 25th, 2010
11:18 pm

Most here already know this, but for those who doubt the Cardinals would think about trading Rasmus, here’s a clip from early September:

Cardinals skipper Tony La Russa confirmed that center fielder Colby Rasmus has requested a trade, writes Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. However, La Russa declined to delve much deeper into the matter with reporters.

“What do you want me to say? Ask Colby. Just ask Colby,” said the manager. “He can handle it however he wants to handle it. He’s capable of explaining himself and what he was thinking at the time.”

Despite La Russa’s suggestion, Rasmus would not confirm his trade request before taking the field against the Reds this afternoon. He also declined to say whether he hoped to remain with the club next season.

La Russa seems to think that the center fielder has had a change of heart. “I think he’s thinking probably the grass is not greener other places and that this is a good situation, a great organization, teammates, everything. That’s what I think. You can ask him,” said La Russa, who also said that the outfielder made a similar request in his rookie season.

Rasmus came to GM John Mozeliak with his request during the Cards’ July 23-25 series against the Cubs at Wrigley Field, according to a source familiar with the situation. After the center fielder arrived late to the park, La Russa threatened to option him to Triple-A in a closed door meeting. However, when talking to Rasmus, Mozeliak assured him that he would be staying put.

“If he doesn’t want to be here next year, we need to figure out a way to get him out of here and find somebody that wants to be here and play,” said Albert Pujols. “That’s a reality.” “That’ll show you right there a young player that doesn’t respect what he’s got,” Pujols added. “He needs to find out the talent and ability that he has and pretty much keep his mouth shut and play the game. Let the organization make those decisions, not himself.”

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
11:19 pm

Looks like the BJ Upton idea has some supporters…..First idea that I’ve seen the vast majority of bloggers in favor of.

Nobleman

October 25th, 2010
11:19 pm

I notice more and more hitters go to outside help, ex fathers, coaches, just goes to show why a hitting coach is vital for a team. Must be reason why Braves are tight lipped about the choice of a BC, would clear some of the air when he is chosen.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:19 pm

The differential between home and road splits by the average NLer was 47 points this season

and his was hundreds of points, relatively that stinks IMO, and average major league numbers are pretty low actually. 747 and 700 would equal 720 something. heck that makes all out previous OFers pretty decent. there is nothing much more meaningless than the “average major league players stats which include truly terrible number as well as good one and would have different meanings according to position. Ain’t buying that it means anything. The guys total numbers were so high because he hit in ‘zona , there is no denying that no matter whatyou wanna throw out there. That’s the kinda stuff Mr. Twain was referring to I think.

Steve from OH

October 25th, 2010
11:20 pm

Likely, unlikely, who knows? I sure don’t. Only Wren and Mozeliak really do. All that matters is he’d look damn good in a Braves uni, and you can bet Wren will try to make that happen. What actually happens remains to be seen.

glord1

October 25th, 2010
11:21 pm

Agreed on Liberty and payroll. It will be a great day when they sell this team. It drives me nuts that Bud and his cronies will aprove a company like Liberty but not a owner like Mark Cuban who may ruffle some feathers but would be completely committed to having a winner.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:24 pm

I think you are thanking the wrong fella PO, I am not in favor of Upton at all. Everybody I know withing 100 miles of here and Tampa is totally fed up with the guy, including some team officials .

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:25 pm

you think he will actually push hard for that Steve?

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
11:29 pm

Read on the St. Louis Post-Dispatch website last month (written by either a beat reporter or columnist) that the chance of Albert Pujols staying in St. Louis when he becomes a free agent is only 50/50.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:29 pm

The nice thing about Upton is his speed and raw ability. It would be nice for the Braves to have a little speed on the team. I’m just not sure about Upton as a player. Will he just be another team distraction or change his ways.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
11:30 pm

Nolie—I was thanking you for agreeing with me on Rasmus not likely to come here

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:32 pm

I would think that if they believe there is a chance that they will lose Phat Albert, there is no way they are gonna trade rasmus and he does not make enough money to be a determining factor in keeping Pujols if traded

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:32 pm

oh I gotcha PO :oops:

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:33 pm

If Pujols leaves STL I think he winds up in Boston or Mets. The Tex deal pretty much takes the Yanks out of the bidding because I’m sure he wants to play 1st still. To me those are the logical destinations if he leaves STL.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:35 pm

Rasmus would affect them resigning Carpenter and Wainwright. I don’t see Rasmus going anywhere either. They need to first determine if they can keep Pujols. If they can’t, they’ll need Rasmus. If they do keep him then they’ll probably move him.

Playoffs!!!!

October 25th, 2010
11:35 pm

Yeah, better not take a risk on Upton. At midseason, we might have to trade him to Toronto for a mediocre centerfielder.

glord1

October 25th, 2010
11:39 pm

I gotta agree with nolie. Just pull a Nancy Reagan on BJ Upton. “Just say no!” He is generally known as one of the biggest jerks in baseball. They have to get him out of Tampa before Longoria snaps his neck.

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:40 pm

What about Rios. Hes got a lengthy contract but other than ‘09 hes been consistent.

Braveheart

October 25th, 2010
11:48 pm

Whatever, Nolie. KJ’s road OPS was higher than Prado’s road OPS this season. Does Prado stink too?

DS1

October 25th, 2010
11:49 pm

The comments from LaRussa on the Rasmus situation last year is very telling about Tony. Great manager, but has been known to air it out a few times over the years. I’d think he would have made the situation worse than it was by his statements.

Upton has been a real head case. Does a move change him? While we’re at it lets get Elijah Dukes too!

We could rename the club the Atlanta Bad-Asses!

:lol:

Tomas

October 25th, 2010
11:52 pm

Upton would improve the defense a lot….It would give the Braves their first legit base stealing threat since Furcal, he has power potential having done it before and he is still young and right handed.

Wouldn’t require a top prospect or anything, he’ll make around 4 million in his second arbitration year.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:53 pm

man dem KJ lovers just never give up ;)

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:53 pm

Tomas

I don’t think Upton comes cheap. Even though hes had his problems in Tampa they don’t seem inclined to move him for anything less than a stellar package.

Ray Parker Jr.

October 25th, 2010
11:54 pm

Refuse assignment to minors while with Braves.
Traded to Mets. Stinks playing there too.
Traded again to Rangers and going to World Series.

That is fair. Right?

count_schemula

October 25th, 2010
11:54 pm

“Media mogul Ted Turner announced Monday that he will give $80 million to a United Nations foundation to fight childhood polio and measles in Nigeria, Africa’s most populous nation.”

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:56 pm

Tomas Upton’s defense in 2010 was very sub-par. no way to know whether it will become acceptable again or not. if it is because of his hitting problems than maybe not unless he starts hitting again. it could even be tyhe result of bad attitude as he is known for his moodiness. Nobody who wanted escobrat gone should want anything to do with Upton

DS1

October 25th, 2010
11:56 pm

Sometimes we get to excited about some splits. Lots of guys hit a lot better at home. Others are consistent both home and away (Mac and Heyward comes to mind last year.).

Others hit worse on the road. Prado would be one Braves in that category.

Kinda hard to look at splits for guys who just generally sucked (McLouth, Cabrera, etc)

Watching some Yes on one of the satellite channels…………..My fav song “Roundabout” being played right now. Steve Howe playing my GIbson ES175D. Well, actually it’s his, but I have one just like it.

:lol:

glord1

October 25th, 2010
11:56 pm

Tomas even though the Rays are willing to move Upton they will not give him away. It would take something pretty good to get him. Atleast a top prospect.

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:57 pm

Ray, where did you ever get the idea that the world is a fair place? How old are you bud?

P'cola Brave

October 25th, 2010
11:57 pm

I like KJ as much as the next guy but he still has to prove that last year wasn’t a fluke. I’m happy he did well but I’d like to see him perform consistently before he came back.

Ray Parker Jr.

October 25th, 2010
11:58 pm

I want to say the Rangers will win it all but they have so many ex Braves connections that they are sure to lose just off of that.

DS1

October 25th, 2010
11:58 pm

Ray Jr.

That is the true representation of the phrase “Falls into a pile of dog sheet and comes up smelling like a rose!”

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut!

nolie

October 25th, 2010
11:59 pm

when there is a 200 plus point spread and the home park is known as a hitters park then the spread is meaningful

Ray Parker Jr.

October 25th, 2010
11:59 pm

I guess the world is not fair or we would not be on this blog. We would be in a hot tub with our soul mates.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:02 am

especially in a case like Young in ‘zona where the splits are that way every year. It really is a bit too early to be serious about KJ being all that terrible away though the splits were large. It’s just so much fun to tweek the Kelly lovers every so often. I know I should be a better person, but I am weak. :oops:

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
12:02 am

I think I saw some love for Frenchy on the blog earlier and I wouldn’t be opposed to signing him to play LF. Of course we would have to upgrade CF as well. Maybe a Dejesus, Ellsbury or Podsednik in this case who can hit at the top of the order. Love him or hate him Frenchy still plays pretty good defense and has a rocket of an arm. Wouldn’t be bad in the lower part of the order.

Braveheart

October 26th, 2010
12:02 am

“Media mogul Ted Turner announced Monday that he will give $80 million to a United Nations foundation to fight childhood polio and measles in Nigeria, Africa’s most populous nation.”

I know it makes me an arsehole, but I gotta admit that I do get really annoyed when Ted gives all of this money away to charities instead of baseball players

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:02 am

Ray

If I weren’t pulling for the Giants since I lived in the bay area for 15 years, I’d still pull against the Rangers purely for the Francoeur factor; though there are a lot of players on the Rangers that I like. Young, Hamilton, Lee, Cruz, etc.

That thing they did at the celebration so Hamilton could join them was top notch in my book.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:04 am

I will sooo pass on Jeff

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:05 am

screw baseball players, I’ll take 10% of that

glord1

October 26th, 2010
12:05 am

Going to get Frenchy is like marrying your ex wife again. Probably is not going to work the second time either.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:06 am

nolie

C’mon, give yourself to the dark side. You know you want to be a KJ fan. You even secretly wish for Ryan Freel to come out of retirement! It is your DESTINY!

(in his best Darth Vader voice!)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:07 am

nostalgia must be even stronger than neuralgia

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:08 am

nolie

I am a simple man. I’d be happy with 10% of your 10%……not greedy here, no way.

But you know, WW always takes the side of the players. He’d give it all to them if he could!

:wink:

Braveheart

October 26th, 2010
12:09 am

screw baseball players, I’ll take 10% of that

I won’t even get that greedy. Just pay off all my debt, so that I don’t owe anyone a dime, and I can just live off whatever I happen to earn, and I’ll be happy.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:09 am

actually I never had anything against KJ. He was just too streaky. Even though I was pushing Marteeen from AAA I at one time thought that Kelly had more promise. but Prado has lived up to his more that Kelly has to his own IMO

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:10 am

WW

IF somebody paid off all our debt, what would we have to beatch about then???

glord1

October 26th, 2010
12:10 am

If we are going to bring back some ex Braves playing for the Rangers can I pick Feliz and Andrus?

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:11 am

yeah BH but my earnin’ days are long gone and i was too carefree and jumped from job to job as i got bored too many times. I could use at least 1% anyway.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:12 am

I have always thought KJ would do better long term than Prado, but I think I was probably wrong. I always liked Prado, just expected him to return to earth eventually.

When we were in CO for the 3 game set, he hit a frickin MONSTER HR to dead CF. Tomahawked it!

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:12 am

you can have Andrus glord, I’ll take Feliz

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:13 am

KJ has the better tools no doubt, but less skills

Braveheart

October 26th, 2010
12:14 am

IF somebody paid off all our debt, what would we have to beatch about then???

Women and Bobby Cox

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:17 am

WW

I gotta be careful here. My wife knows my moniker!

:sad:

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:18 am

having a woman to beetch about can actually be a better thing than not

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:18 am

Maybe FW should just drop anybody with a hefty salary, bring up Young, Harrilchak, Hicks, Pastornicky and then go out and sign Cliff Lee! We could win ‘em all 3-2.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:20 am

nolie

Amen. After 33+ years, don’t know what I’d do without this one. I definitely married up in class by about 5 steps! Gotta keep my nose clean and not screw it up.

Nobleman

October 26th, 2010
12:24 am

I can’t believe somone even mentioned Swisher, how soon we forget Milky, another Yankee castoff, fool me once?

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:26 am

Nobleman

How can you even mention Melky and Swisher in the same sentence………….

No comparison. Swisher is starter material. Melky is a 4th man tops.

glord1

October 26th, 2010
12:33 am

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:12 am
you can have Andrus glord, I’ll take Feliz

I dont know nolie. In 12 months I believe Kimbrel will be very similiar to Feliz but Gonzalez will not be Andrus at short. As good as Feliz is I think I will be missing Andrus more next summer as I watch Gonzalez play SS again.

Braveheart

October 26th, 2010
12:38 am

If they didn’t trade Elvis for Tex, they would’ve traded Elvis for Peavy. So be thankful we traded Elvis for Tex.

Nobleman

October 26th, 2010
12:38 am

Was not Melky a starter with the Yankees?, I’d stay away from dealing with that team and I live in NY.BEEN A BRAVES fan since 1965.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:42 am

Gonzales had a better defensive year than Andrus in ‘10 by a fair amount and Andrus has crappy stats even though hitting in one of the best hitters parks in baseball. I’m not certain the guy will ever break 750 even there. and no power at all limits his effectiveness at lead off IMO. Prado played a lot less bur scored more runs for a less potent offense even though Andrus stole more bases. I am just not sold on the guy as a hitter yet, a good post season does not a hitter make, just ask Lempke. I’m sude Elvis will bounce back defensively, anfdI would like him a bit more than Gonzo but not enough to get worked up about that trade.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:45 am

Prado played a lot less

meant with a lot less health IIRC

DS1

October 26th, 2010
12:46 am

nite folks…………

nolie

October 26th, 2010
12:50 am

MJ

October 26th, 2010
1:12 am

Baylor needs to be the hitting coach – give him whatever he wants. Heyward needs help, and Baylor would be perfect for the job. Open your checkbook Braves and do something good for all your players. Now is the time to get a proven, respected person. Ex Braves in the World Series are interesting. Renteria, and DeRosa, on the Giants, Andrus, Feliz, Frenchy, and Harrison on the Rangers. The Braves mgt has done a fantastic job of giving away talent the last 5 years and getting nothing in return. We have two ex -Brave shortstops playing in the Worlkd Series. One incredibly young with a huge future in front of him. The second a journeyman, but certainly better than Escobar, who replaced him. At this years Allstar game, we had Andrus and Furcal playiong for the NL & AL. The braves have let so many quality players go it’s ridiculous. When you start trading the heart of your minor league system to sign players represented by Scott Boras, you know you are being taken advantage of. Schueholz and Wren have had their 15 minutes of fame. They need to be replaced. Let’s let Mr. Blank own the team, and bring his personnel guy with him. They know how to build and maintain winners.

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 26th, 2010
1:13 am

DSI @ 11:49 p.m. – “We could rename the club the Atlanta Bad-Asses!”

LMAO

;)

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 26th, 2010
1:14 am

MJ – Baylor was just named hitting coach for the D-Backs earlier today.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
1:24 am

I think I saw that they gave him a two year contract, is that right Frank? Something the Braves don’t do for the most part.

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

October 26th, 2010
1:55 am

Nolie – yeah, he got a 2 year deal…*sigh*.

Grrrrr…I was kinda hoping he was coming back here..but oh well. Can’t cry over spilled milk, as they say.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
2:11 am

I too would have liked to have seen him come back.

Ghetto Braves

October 26th, 2010
2:16 am

Let’s trade for BJ Upton and Delmon Young, then trade McLouth to Russia!

nolie

October 26th, 2010
2:38 am

Young I’ll take, Upton I’ll pass on.

Bobby's Cox

October 26th, 2010
3:57 am

Let me get the facts straight…..

1. We trade Yunel Escobar to Toronto this year because he’s a clubhouse cancer.

2. Names that came up on the blog today for OF were Rasmus, Kemp, and Upton

3. Kemp is called a RAT and his attitude, show boating, whatever, is complained upon

4. Upton’s attitude was also talked about

5. Rasmus, who demanded a trade from St. Louis, had their best player and manager upset with him midseason, has baggage with his father, hasn’t had a good of a season in his short career as Upton or Kemp, AND would maybe take more prospects to get via trade, didn’t even get 1 iota of bad rep from the bloggers here about his attitude.

I don’t get it….

Jeff R

October 26th, 2010
6:05 am

Bobby’s Cox makes good points in the overnight comments.

I’d add: Wren’s not stupid. He’s not going to give up the farm for Rasmus, which is what St. Louis will ask for. Now, if it comes to trading Rasmus, the Cards have a lower than expected ask, then… who knows?

Wren’s not trading Prado. What happens if – when – Chipper breaks down, provided Chipper even makes it to the regular season? Also, imagine the infield minus Prado. Hole at 2B. Aging, just adequate shortstop. 39-year-old third baseman greatly prone to injuries.

Omar? I think he’s the super sub Wren and Cox envision him to be. Not strongly impressed with Omar’s defense. I don’t think Omar’s an everyday player. So, less Martin, doesn’t sound like a winning infield.

Upton, if available, seems more get-able. He’s young, so he may still find his groove. Sometimes players need to mature before than settle in and play up to potential.

Couch Tater

October 26th, 2010
7:04 am

IF somebody paid off all our debt, what would we have to beatch about then???

Engineered obsolescence. (I replaced my water heater, last year. Life expectancy of the new one 8-10 years. The old one had a date of 1966.)

Engineered obsolescence II. ( I’m getting bids for my home A/C. It was replaced in 2001.)

Engineered obsolescence III. (PMS)

I was just joking, baby. Really… I was. IT WAS a damn JOKE!

What’s the weather is supposed to do, today?

London Calling

October 26th, 2010
7:11 am

MJ. You do know who we got for Renteria, don’t you? Jeez man – that was one of the most one-sided trades in history!

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
7:34 am

Jeez man – that was one of the most one-sided trades in history!

Depends on how you look at it…we got Jurrjens and essentially half of Nate McLouth

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
7:38 am

But yes, I’m not sure how we got 2 good prospects for an aging Renteria with 1 year left on his contract.

On another note, I think we sometimes greatly overvalue the worth/influence of a hitting coach

UnretireBobbyCox

October 26th, 2010
7:55 am

DOB: any info from your internal sources with the Braves whether Robert or .Don have a shot at getting the job to be the Braves’ hitting coach next season? I believe the Braves would be foolish not to take a close look at their resumés…

Braveheart

October 26th, 2010
8:13 am

Engineered obsolescence.

I forgot about that. Yes, very annoying. As the old joke goes, they can put man on the moon, but can’t get a man more than 40 miles a gallon in his car, can’t sell the man an American car that doesn’t die at 100,000 miles. Screw getting me on the moon, just get me to work.

yogi2

October 26th, 2010
8:15 am

Why even mention FranQueor, He was run out of Atlanta and New York. He Should have bee n tarred and feathered. DOB needs to find something better to report. He is stinking up this place.

yogi2

October 26th, 2010
8:18 am

Frank Wrens’ way of evaluating outfielders is disgusting

CB

October 26th, 2010
8:29 am

Has there been any statement from the Braves regarding the payroll for 2011? Not expecting a lot,but would be nice for the fans if they said there will be an increase.

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
8:45 am

UPTON, UPTON, he’s our man. If he can’t do it nobody can!

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
8:49 am

Has there been any statement from the Braves regarding the payroll for 2011

Statement? Not really what they do, make annual official declarations of payroll figures. But as far as the front office and where the payroll will be they said something along the lines of: “Payroll will be like last year and it may even increase a little bit.”
Last year payroll was less than the year before and that was termed an “increase” when counting in “real dollars.”
So if last year is the guide, as the front office listed, payroll will decrease… or another way to say it, payroll will increase by adding a negative number to it.

CB

October 26th, 2010
8:57 am

TP,kind of like my retirement portfolio.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
8:58 am

Payroll? Payroll? PAYROLL? Are we talking about PAYROLL!!

Actually, there are probably too many factors to truly say whether it goes up or down. Bonus’, insurance payments, incentives, etc.

Up? Down? Who’s to say?

To be honest, I don’t get too excited about it one way or the other. We’ll have a good idea about payroll when opening day hits, or maybe not.

:wink:

DS1

October 26th, 2010
8:59 am

C’mon CB, stop with those negative waves, man!

LTBF

October 26th, 2010
9:37 am

Good morning all. When the heck does the WS start? HURRY UP, I miss baseball.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
9:40 am

Braveheart, another example regarding engineered obsolescence: My electric stove is the original one installed when house was built in 1953. And it works great. I’m going to bet that none of your average stoves built today will be in use 57 years from now.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
9:48 am

DOB

Your stove is 2 years older than I am and probably works a heckuva lot better!

I am on my 3rd refridgerator since I moved to my present location 8.5 years ago. Granted the first one was old when we moved in, but……

Sheesh!

McFann O O – 6

October 26th, 2010
9:51 am

DOB My electric stove is the original one installed when house was built in 1953.

Cool! My Grandparents have a 50 year-old refrigerator.

al

October 26th, 2010
9:52 am

Colby Rasmus has received the “Star Treatment” since he was a member of the Phenix City, Alabama Little League team that made it to the finals of the LL World Series. His father, Tony Rasmus was the coach of that team and parlayed their success into a job as baseball coach of Russell County, Alabama high school where he has been remarkably successful – perennial contender for state championship and has had several players drafted highly. That said, Coach Rasmus has a tendency to say and do things that infuriate a lot of people. The Braves have had Colby’s younger brother in their organization for several years so I am sure that they are knowledgeable about the baggage that Colby Rasmus will bring with him if they were to pursue a trade for him.

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
9:58 am

Hey DOB, who is the head scout for the Braves right now? Is Jim Fregosi still the guy or did he go somewhere else?

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
10:01 am

I’ve had a both of my AC units replaced my hot water heater replaced a dishwasher replaced and a new fridge all in the last 2 years. All of these appliances were less then 10 years old. I’m a firm believer in they don’t make things like they use to.

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
10:04 am

Young I’ll take, Upton I’ll pass on.

nolie, you would take Delmon Young but not BJ Upton? Isn’t Young just as bad a clubhouse guy? Plus, in terms of defense, isn’t Young one of the worst defensive left fielders in baseball? I guess if you really think he broke through this year and he is going to continue to put up .298/.333/.493 type years. You may not be a fan of it, but here is Delmon’s Wins above replacement stats over the last 4 seasons: 0.1 in 07, -0.7 in 08, -1.1 in 09, 2.1 in 2010. Plus, he has had a total of 40 walks in the last two seasons. I don’t know, I’m just not a fan at all of his.

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
10:05 am

Anybody interested on Nick Swisher for LF

McFann O O – 6

October 26th, 2010
10:06 am

CraZyTRaDeMaN I’m a firm believer in they don’t make things like they use to.

For sure…that pretty much applies to everything.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
10:08 am

Nick Swisher would be a huge upgrade……..

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
10:12 am

O.J., Fregosi is still the guy. He has been considered for at least one managerial post this winter.

Chuck M.

October 26th, 2010
10:13 am

I say if the Braves want to trade JJ and venters for Kemp.then do it or JJ and a prospect for Cory Hart.JJ will be a free agent at the end of the year and his agent is Scott Boras!

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
10:13 am

Nick is a great guy too, I went to Spring Training 09..Yankees and Braves…he signed autographs for at least an hour just before the game, while the super-stars ignored and avoided the fans.

keylargo

October 26th, 2010
10:16 am

Anybody interested on Nick Swisher for LF

I bet Wren made a run at him last year, but had to settle for Melky.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
10:17 am

I say if the Braves want to trade JJ and venters for Kemp.then do it or JJ and a prospect for Cory Hart.JJ will be a free agent at the end of the year and his agent is Scott Boras!– Chuck M.

Chuck, this is Jurrjens’ first year of arbitration eligibility. He won’t be a free agent until after the 2013 season.

timthebrave

October 26th, 2010
10:18 am

I’m loving that it’s not a phillies vs yankees series. My prediction is Rangers in 6. I’m cheering for francouer to win it otherwise I would be going for the Giants since they are the national league team. Still wishing it was the Braves…..

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
10:19 am

DOB, so is it safe to say that even if he left, the Braves would still have one of the best scouting departments in baseball? I would hate to not have a stockpile of young arms in the future because the scouting department changed course.

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
10:20 am

Man, I cant help but to think that if we had a healthy Chipper and Prado that it would be us in the World Series and not the Giants.

timthebrave

October 26th, 2010
10:20 am

Maybe that will keep the Phillies mouths shut until spring time. Not so easy to win a world series even if you are considered the better team and have 3 aces on your team……

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
10:21 am

O.J.: It wouldn’t have a big effect on something like their recent stockpiling of young arms. I say that because Fregosi does mostly major league scouting, though not entirely.

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
10:23 am

Ohhh, OK, thanks for the info DOB, I forgot that Fregosi did mostly major league scouting. We should lock up the guys that scouted Kimbrel and Venters, guys like that.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
10:27 am

JJ will be a free agent at the end of the year and his agent is Scott Boras!

This is false he will NOT be a FA at the end of this year. He still has multiple years of Arb.

Gary O

October 26th, 2010
10:27 am

Given the Marlins and their payroll limitations, would they trade Uggla, who made $7.8 mil this year?

And would you trade Braves MVP Prado (who made $440K) for him?

The Marlins would get to dump salary, and still get a capable starter to play 2B, while we get a legit power hitter (154 HR, 465 RBIs in the last 5 seasons).

Any takers?

Daybed Wagmoe

October 26th, 2010
10:28 am

Is Rudy Jaramillo on the Braves’ radar for hitting coach?

Shaun

October 26th, 2010
10:31 am

N8 said the following: And I don’t know what more Infante has to do to prove that he can hit. Dude’s hit .309 in 3 years with the Braves in 991 AB. Time to finally admit the guy can hit. For the record (to dispute Shaun’s theory), his OBP in those 3 seasons is .350. Guy can be a viable leadoff hitter if needed.

Infante doesn’t walk and doesn’t hit for much power. That means most of his impressive batting average and on-base (most of his value at the plate) is because of contact. Now his batting average when you take out homers and strikeouts with the Braves is 30 points better than his career batting average with homers and strikeouts removed from the equation. Odds are he isn’t going to continue to be 30 points better, plus he’s not likely to hit for more power nor is he likely to walk significantly more.

I actually agree that Omar is an okay option for the Braves at leadoff; they could do worse. I also think Infante is a decent option as an everyday secondbaseman or of course a super utility guy. I don’t think he’s likely, over the next season or two, to be as bad as his career numbers (.274/.319/.395) nor do I think he’s likely to be as good as his Braves numbers (.309/.353/.411).

Too much of his value at the plate is dependent on something that probably can’t be sustained, namely his batting average with homers and strikeouts taken out being that much higher than it is for his career, for him to be extremely valuable as an everyday player. I do think he’s an adequate everyday player, though.

I think a reasonable expectation for Infante next year is something like the 2008 version, around .290/.335/.400. In 2008 his batting average with homers and strikeouts removed was a little higher than his career batting average with homers and strikeouts removed but wasn’t extremely out of line.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2010
10:31 am

Let’s see….Phillies were reguarded as by far the best team in the NL, and maybe the entire MLB. They had 3 of the best starters in all of baseball. And they failed to make it to the WS. It must be Bobby Cox’s fault somehow, but I can’t figure out how.
Just goes to show…

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
10:31 am

Daybed: Jaramillo is with the Cubs. Only went there a year ago. Didn’t exactly work miracles in one season there, but again, that underscores the opinion I share with many other observers that a hitting coach isn’t going to drastically affect a team.

Just look at how long most of them last with various teams.

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
10:33 am

@OJ, and with homefield advantage

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2010
10:33 am

Prado for Uggla – I’ll pass on that, thanks.

DAP

October 26th, 2010
10:37 am

p’cola brave Frenchy still plays pretty good defense and has a rocket of an arm. Wouldn’t be bad in the lower part of the order.

yes. he. would.

i am genuinely shocked at this sentiment. dont forget, ryan church was an upgrade over frenchy when we traded him. thats right. ryan church. c’mon people.

nobleman I can’t believe somone even mentioned Swisher, how soon we forget Milky, another Yankee castoff, fool me once?

!?!

Daybed Wagmoe

October 26th, 2010
10:42 am

Yeah, I knew that Jaramillo has been with the Cubs — I just wasn’t sure if he’s slated to stay on board with them next year. I remember hearing a while back that most coaches’ contracts are year-to-year, but I don’t know what his is like. And I thought that since Don Baylor was the Braves’ hitting coach for one year in ‘99 (albeit he left to become a manager and not hitting coach elsewhere), it’s not out of the realm of possibility for Jaramillo to be with a team for one year.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
10:42 am

Gary O., the Marlins just were singled out by MLB last offseason for cutting payroll too much and not spending on players despite a new stadium on the way. As a result, they handed out a couple of decent contracts. They are reportedly working on an extension with Uggla, and I think they’re more likely to get that done than they are to move his salary and again be under scrutiny for having a payroll near bottom of majors and a new park on way that’s being built largely with taxpayer money.

Tommy T

October 26th, 2010
10:45 am

It’s amazing how quickly people have forgotten the first half of ‘09 when the bottom of the line-up was Francoeur/Johnson/Schafer/Pitcher. Half of the Braves batting order was automatic outs. Francoeur has just as much chance as being a Brave again as John Rocker.

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
10:45 am

I was really hoping that Don Baylor would have been our next hitting coach, too bad he went with the Diamondbacks. Which I wish I understood what his thinking was on that one.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
10:47 am

Payne: namely his batting average with homers and strikeouts taken out being that much higher than it is for his career

C’mon now Payne don’t be scared to use the terminology… this is BABiP. That’s what you are discussing here…. namely his [batting average on balls in play, or BABiP] being that much higher than it is for his career

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
10:49 am

I was wondering that yesterday OJ….maybe better chance of Gibson being on a short leash, and he could be next in line….

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
10:49 am

Wish we could somehow get Dave Magadan as our hitting coach.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
10:51 am

Yeah, Uggla is not going to be moved, especially not to the Braves. He has expressed a desire to stay in Florida, and they’ve already begun talks to keep him there. So, might as well move on from that idea. Not going to happen.

Obee

October 26th, 2010
10:53 am

DOB

You are right about stoves. Our new one lasted two years before needing repair because of an electronics breakdown. Sometime plain old mechanical stuff just works better.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
10:57 am

My Grandparents have a 50 year-old refrigerator.

As far as engineered obsolescence goes these old frig’s should be trashed. I had a 45 year old frig for a while. Thought it was so cool. Couldn’t find that color or design any where on the market. It kept the beer as cold as cold be. Just wonderful.

Every time that old frig fired up the lights would dim. I always took that to be a factor of both the frig and the old wiring. I finally caved and got a new one. The new frig came on and no such thing happened. Then I got the electric bill. Turns out that old frig was single handedly responsible for the California Brown outs and Black outs of the early 00’s. My energy bill dropped by two thirds and the only change was the frig.

tony austin

October 26th, 2010
10:57 am

Daybed Wagmoe – -Player sources told ESPNChicago.com on Tuesday that Jaramillo would sign a three-year, $2.42 million contract. http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4581458

Hillbillybrave

October 26th, 2010
11:00 am

DOB..any Medlin update?

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
11:01 am

any Medlin update?

Still an undersized right filled with grit and determination.

Shaun

October 26th, 2010
11:06 am

TennesseePaul, just trying to use more descriptive language over abbreviations that some people may be turned off by simply because they view it as “sabermetric.”

N8

October 26th, 2010
11:09 am

“… nor do I think he’s likely to be as good as his Braves numbers (.309/.353/.411).” shaun

Yeah, you’re right. 3 straight seasons and 991 AB, is a pretty small sample size. What was I thinking?

Shaun

October 26th, 2010
11:18 am

N8, I don’t see what sample size has to do with the fact that Infante has gotten good fortune on balls in the field of play in at least two of his three seasons with the Braves, perhaps all three. My argument that Infante is probably not quite as good as some think and that he isn’t likely to sustain his 2010 or his production with the Braves has nothing to do with sample size. My argument is based on him being extremely fortunate on balls in the field of play. So you need to start there in order to refute my argument.

Daybed Wagmoe

October 26th, 2010
11:19 am

tony austin — there it is. thanks!

Shaun

October 26th, 2010
11:23 am

N8, I grant you that we have enough of a sample size to get an idea of Infante’s true abilities. The problem is not that we don’t have enough of a sample size. Again, I agree with you that we do. The problem is that he’s gotten unusually fortunate on balls in the field of play. Even if he’s still just a little less fortunate than he was in 2010 or 2009 but is still fortunate (perhaps at 2008 levels), he’s still likely to be noticeably less productive. Now, he’ll still be an adequate major leaguer but just not borderline star-caliber as he was in 2010.

DAP

October 26th, 2010
11:25 am

shaun My argument that Infante is probably not quite as good as some think and that he isn’t likely to sustain his 2010 or his production with the Braves has nothing to do with sample size. My argument is based on him being extremely fortunate on balls in the field of play.

did you think this trough? sample size is the factor that changes random chance into actual repeatable results. sample size is everything when it comes to stats.

besides, is the argument that infante wont sustain his 2010 performance, or that he wont sustain the numbers he has put up for the last over 1000 PA?

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
11:26 am

Happy 59th b-day to the mighty, the funky, Bootsy Collins.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
11:28 am

simply because they view it as “sabermetric.”

It is sabermetric. Changing the name of it isn’t going to change the fact that this is a keystone stat of Sabermetricians. It is, however, going to make your sentences much harder to read.

JimD

October 26th, 2010
11:28 am

N8

October 26th, 2010
11:30 am

Oh, and for those that still think Omar is in over his head as a starter?

2008: 77 games started, 90 hits, 3 HR, 36 RBI, .301/.344/.425/.768

2009: 43 games started, 54 hits, 2 HR, 22 RBI, 310/.374/.408/.782

2010: 106 games started, 143 hits, 8 HR, 42 RBI, 322/.361/.423/.784

Slice it and dice it all you want shaun. On this team, with who there is currently on the roster? Omar Infante should be in the lineup somewhere and and based on Prado’s power compared to Omar’s, Omar should be in the leadoff spot with Prado lower in the order to drive in runs.

Now, if Wren gets a couple of power bats for the middle of the order, Prado and all his doubles might be better suited for the leadoff spot, with Omar batting lower in the order.

But by comparison, here are Chipper’s lines for the last two seasons:

2009: 143 games started, 129 hits, 18 HR, 71 RBI, .264/.388/.430/.818

2010: 95 games started, 84 hits, 10 HR, 46 RBI, 265/.381/.426/.806

The last two years, Chipper has started 238 games, has 213 hits, with 28 HR and 117 RBI.

The last three years, Omar has started 226 games, has 287 hits with 13 HR and 100 RBI.

With all those hits, how many more RBI do you think Omar would have had if he was given the benefit of hitting in the 3-hole, like Chipper has?

No doubt, when healthy, Chipper provides more power, and likely scares the pitchers more than Omar does. But enough already. In about the same amount of starts, Omar literally has matched all of Chipper’s numbers other than HR total.

Over that time, Chipper has 161 walks. Omar has had 66. So you’re right about the walks. But hits drive in runs.

Total times on bas3 for Omar: 353 in 226 games.

Total times on base for Chipper: 374 in 238 games

So ini 12 more starts, Chipper’s been on base 21 more times, and hit 15 more HR.

I’m not a math whiz, but in the past 3 seasons, Omar has made 5.475 million dollars combined

The last two years (since Chipper’s had the same amount of starts in two years as Omar has in three), Chipper has made 26 million dollars combined.

Talk about bang for your buck, huh?

DAP

October 26th, 2010
11:33 am

shaun, the only reason you think infante’s BABIP is inflated is because its higher than his career average. its a large sample size and the last three years have shown a spike in those numbers.

what you need to realize when it comes to infante (and i actually think you do realize this) is that when he came to atlanta in 2008, he started a new trend. he became a different hitter. he has a different swing with way more contact and fewer strikeouts…and at the time he was only 26. infante’s career is a situation where i believe you can truly throw everything before 2008 out. he isnt the same player he was.

N8

October 26th, 2010
11:34 am

“My argument is based on him being extremely fortunate on balls in the field of play. So you need to start there in order to refute my argument.” Shaun

The guy’s hit over .300 as a starter (and overall), for 3 years running. You stated that the .309 average as a Brave might not be able to be sustained. I’m not disputing that he will challenge for the batting title every year like he did this past year.

I am however willing to be that he’ll hit around .300 and have an OBP around .340-.350 with an OPS around .750 to .800, when he plays.

Which unfortunately, is what we should also expect from Chipper, since it’s what he’s done the past two full seasons and is coming off of a major knee injury.

Fortunate, or unfortunate….. Omar can hit. And on this team, that puts him in select company.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
11:36 am

is the argument that infante wont sustain his 2010 performance, or that he wont sustain the numbers he has put up for the last over 1000 PA?

It’s a strange argument to make entirely on either side. Of course it is rare to impossible to sustain the same level of hitting year in year out. It changes for everyone. Of course it is ridiculous to spend your first few years on the blog arguing for sample size and park adjustments, only to seemingly turn away from them when convenient. But the other side of this argument is, Omar hasn’t been a full time player in his career save for one season when he was 22. The rest of the time he has been playing off the bench. Extrapolating part time playing numbers into full time playing numbers is not linear.

Kashi

October 26th, 2010
11:41 am

I did get Francour for left field, get new HITTING coach. Keep infante/conrad for chipper backup. Keep Diaz or Hinsky for Francour backup. Team is set. We didn’t give much. I have a feeling year 2011 is the year of Francour and Nate McClouth with new team and batting coach.

Gary O

October 26th, 2010
11:45 am

Thanks for the response DOB.

Guys,

Would Omar be a platoon option in LF with Nate? Between LF, 3B, and 2B, he would get lots of starts.

otisnixonsmokescrack!

October 26th, 2010
11:45 am

congrats to the sf giants for winning the nl pennant. eventually every dragon will be slayed. it happens. the games were sloppy, but the giants wanted it more. the phils weren’t expecting a fight and they got burned. they probably were even arrogant enough to look past the giants and on to the yankees in the ws. how did that one workout? i said the phils would win. but they didn’t.

so i have to man up and not be a sore loser. good luck in the world series sf. this could turn out to be a good one. i did say on here before the nlcs that sf had a 2003 marlins look to them. wish i was wrong on that one. i’m still gonna watch the world series even though the phillies lost. i been watching the series every year since kirk gibson in ‘88. good luck with your up coming off-season braves fans. see ya in 2011. hopefully… if i don’t od from the crack pipe first.

abwright

October 26th, 2010
11:47 am

ncscoots, October 25th, 2010, 4:50 pm … “hang ‘em and bang ‘em until the pitcher’s girlfriend starts thinking about a new arrangement.”

What a brutal comment. I love it!

I think the series between TX and SF is going to be close. SF’s pitching is better than TX’s, although Cliff Lee might be better than anyone SF can throw out there. That could be 2 wins for the Rangers.

SF will prolly keep TX to 3 runs or less per game. But, will SF be able to score any better?

Since I’m rooting for Texas, I’ll pick them in seven.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
11:48 am

Would Omar be a platoon option in LF with Nate?

I think Omar’s 2011 role depends entirely on what Wren is able to do this off-season. I like Omar. I wouldn’t mind seeing him play more. But I’d rather see the outfield solidified with good/great moves. If that leaves Omar on the bench then so be it. As “sad” as that would be it should imply that the team has even better hitters to put out there on a regular basis… and it makes the bench that much better.

N8

October 26th, 2010
11:50 am

“Extrapolating part time playing numbers into full time playing numbers is not linear.” T-Paul

That is true. What’s not being taken into consideration (by myself), when “pro-rating” his starting numbers over a full 162 game schedule, is prolonged slumps, injuries, facing tougher pitchers, etc…

In 2008 and 2009, many of his starts were hand picked starts by Bobby, whether against LHP or when giving guys days off, when Omar was likely very fresh off the bench. But 2010 showed, that he could sustain it to an extent over a long period of time when asked to do so. Granted, he was really hot early, and then cooled off, but the numbers just simply don’t lie.

In the past 3 years, he’s had more hits than games started (in those games started – my above numbers aren’t including his PH numbers or substitute numbers coming into games late), and Chipper has less hits than games started.

Some of that comes from teams pitching around Chipper. And some of Omars numbers come from having Chipper and Heyward BEHIND him in the order, when he was leading off.

Teams are much more likely to pitch to a singles and occasional doubles guy like Omar than risk walking him ahead of those guys.

So I get it.

But if that theory (having a guy like Omar at the top of the order ahead of those guys), works as well as it did, why go away from it?

I know people want Omar to be that uber-utility guy because he’s great at it, but it just simply might be easier to find a one good hitter for CF, put Omar in LF, and find a viable backup/4th outfielder (Nate McLouth), in the even that Omar is needed at 3B or 2B for an extended period of time. Leaving Wren to find another utility type guy for the bench. There has to be a veteran guy out there with Omar’s infield range, with experience at SS, 3B and 2B to cover that need, doesn’t there.

It really comes down to which one is easier to find for Wren? An everyday outfielder that will be inexpensive that can provide what Omar could do starting 125-140 games in LF, or if he can find a utility guy capable of doing what Omar does off the bench.

Where’s Wilson Betemit at these days? Or perhaps Willie Aybar? :-)

N8

October 26th, 2010
11:57 am

“Would Omar be a platoon option in LF with Nate? Between LF, 3B, and 2B, he would get lots of starts.”

At first glance, I thought the same thing. But sadly enough, Omar is the better hitter of the two at this point. Since teams see more RHP than LHP, that platoon would be back-asswards. If Nate returns to 2008 form, then that is a GREAT idea. Giving Omar starts against LHP in LF and spot starts for Chipper and Prado keeping them fresh.

But I’m not sure Wren can afford to go into 2011 assuming that Nate will return to 2008 form to make that work. I think Wren has to replace Nate as though he will still stink, leaving Nate on the bench as an expensive 4th OF and if he pushes his way back into the starting lineup, that means the replacements in CF or LF that Wren finds are either hurt or not panning out.

But nate has decent value as a 4th outfielder, it’s just that his contract states that it’s a waste of money. But there is nothing Wren can do about that now. No sense compounding a bad contract by forcing the guy into the lineup. I’d rather have him be an overpaid bench guy, than killing rally after rally in the everyday lineup, because his contract dictates he’s too spendy to be on the bench.

But Nate can cover CF in a pinch and played pretty decent LF as a late inning defensive replacement. He still can’t throw very well from either spot. But he can go get the ball. He still runs well enough to be used as a pinch runner, and the Braves could do worse off the bench than him.

Sad thing is, if he and Rick Ankiel were free agents and Wren had to choose between one of them to be the 4th outfielder, I’d rather have Ankiel. Better glove and certainly a better arm. But neither are ideal for the starting CF job on this current roster.

dmack2027

October 26th, 2010
11:59 am

DOB,

In response to your blog about Rasmus and posts about Kemp, one thing we are perhaps underscoring is that both young outfielders have caused problems in their respective clubhouses. In both situations, the young player and manager spoke to the media about wanting to be traded. They were very public about their malcontent.

This can cause a team to sell low on a young cheap player. The Braves did this with Yunel Escobar, except that the rift was nowhere near as public of a spectacle. When Pujols is quoted as saying that they need to trade Rasmus because he is making waves while they are trying to catch the Reds, the situation in St. Louis may be worse than we know.

In the case of Kemp, the Dodgers are in such disarray that the Braves might be able to exploit all of the uncertainty surrounding the team’s financial situation and direction.

Couch Tater

October 26th, 2010
12:13 pm

McFann, TennPaul –

My mother has a 1950 White-Westinghouse refrigerator that she had get on a waiting list to purchase. In the 60’s, she gave it to a neighbor and they used it as a spare in their garage for a couple of years. The neighbor then moved and gave it back to my mom.

In the 70’s, it partied a lot and wanted nothing but beer. Lonely and dejected, it kicked the habit about the time I graduated from college. It’s still runs today, stocked with gatorade and water.

That defrosting though…

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
12:20 pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/10/26/union.expanding.playoffs.ap/index.html?eref=twitter_feed

This is an article about expanding the amount of teams in the postseason and possibly shortening of the regular season. I don’t think this is a good idea for a variety of reasons. 1st how many teams? If we are talking an NBA type format 8 teams from each league that would dilute the postseason and the importance of the division title and the pennant race. Then if you do a NFL type 6 teams from each league 2 teams from each league would sit out the 1st week. Im not sure if that’s really a bonus to the team with the best record. How about leaving the current format alone it works. If we had 8 teams from each league the post season teams would be:
NBA style playoffs
NL
1. Phillies
2. Giants
3. Reds
4. Braves
5. Padres
6. Cardinals
7. Rockies
8. Dodgers / Marlins tied
AL
1. Rays
2. Twins
3. Rangers
4. Yankees
5. Red Sox
6. White Sox
7. Blue Jays
8. Tigers / Athletic tied

NO Thank you. How about a NFL type postseason
NFL style playoffs
NL
Bye teams
1. Phillies
2. Giants
1st Round 5 game series
3. Reds vs. 6. Cards
4. Braves vs. 5. Pads

AL
Bye Teams
1. Rays
2. Twins
1st Round
3. Rangers vs. 6. White Sox
4. Yankees vs. 5. Red Sox

I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be with my team having to wait a week in between the end of the regular season and the start of the second round. Though it would give the teams who have clinched a top 2 spot the incentive to play the regulars all the way through game 162 due to the week off they would be getting. I say leave it alone the best 4 teams made the playoffs from each league if more teams want in then they need to find a way to play better!!!!

Murph

October 26th, 2010
12:21 pm

If the Braves can save some money in 2011 and find someone who can last a year without hurting the team on a daily basis (the anti Melky/Nate), then they might be in a good position come 2012 when the FA class looks to be a little bit better.

Bobby Abreu LAA *
Jose Bautista TOR
Carlos Beltran NYM
Milton Bradley SEA
Mike Cameron BOS
Ronny Cedeno PIT
Ryan Church PIT
Jack Cust OAK
David DeJesus KC
Matt Diaz ATL
J.D. Drew BOS
Jeff Francoeur TEX
Jonny Gomes CIN
Gabe Gross OAK
Carlos Guillen DET
Corey Hart MIL
Raul Ibanez PHI
Conor Jackson ARZ
Ryan Ludwick SD
Nate McLouth ATL *
Juan Pierre CWS
Juan Rivera LAA
Cody Ross SF
Grady Sizemore CLE *
Nick Swisher NYY *
Josh Willingham WAS

Murph

October 26th, 2010
12:25 pm

Crazy, I read that article too.

My issue with expanding the playoffs and shortening the regular season:

1. The NBA is a joke. Any professional sport league that includes over 50% of the teams in the playoffs has zero credibility. It’s such an obvious money grab that it makes me hate, yes hate, the NBA.
2. Baseball, more than any other sport, has a history that revolves around statistics. Shortening the regular season will send those vaunted statistics into a tail spin of asterisks and debate that the game doesn’t need. Imagine talking about this record or that record and someone says “yeah, well, his ERA record was in the 140 game season, not the 162 game season.”
3. Did I mention that anything which brings the MLB closer to the NBA is a horrible, bad, awful, dumb, horrible idea?

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
12:33 pm

Hillbillybrave: Medlen’s hip was fine in MRI, according to Braves.

DAP

October 26th, 2010
12:33 pm

crazytrade man, i dont like the idea of expanding the playoffs because the regular season vets the teams enough. its a long season and only the best make it to the end with a shot. the braves were in playoff games the last two weeks of the regular season…thats how it felt anyway. you know what i mean? i really think its a bad idea, for one because it takes away the uniqueness of the baseball season.

i think the most i would be ok with is making the first round 7 games.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
12:35 pm

dmack: Teams only wish that were the case with Rasmus. If Cards make him available, teams will line up. Bidding war (trade-style) will ensue. They do NOT have to trade him, at all. In fact, those I know in St. Louis said they are more inclined to keep him unless blown away by an offer.

Kemp, I can’t say the same thing about. I don’t know his situation, what the Dodgers might accept.

Gary O

October 26th, 2010
12:36 pm

Murph,

The problem is, Wren has been trying stop gaps for the last 2 years. Ilbanez, Dunn and Bobby Abreu were available 2 years ago, but we were stuck with Loaf in LF. And then we had Melky and Diaz.

And with the guys on your list, there is no way to know who will struggle, who will sign extensions, who will get hurt etc. I think our best move is to try and fix it now.

“But nate has decent value as a 4th outfielder, it’s just that his contract states that it’s a waste of money.” N8 .

Even if Nate’s salary was $2 mil, I dont think he has decent value as a 4th OF. imo, he doesnt excel at anything. At least Ankiel has a great arm, or Diaz hits lefties well (or used to), what would Nate bring to the table?

njbraves

October 26th, 2010
12:38 pm

The fact that anyone would want Francouer back is mind boggling to me. The guy is flat out awful and isn’t an option for this team. People don’t want to trade any prospects and don’t want to “overspend” on guys like Crawford or Werth, but want to bring back Frenchy and Andruw?? OK, great thinking folks.

59bulldawg

October 26th, 2010
12:41 pm

Colby Rasmus is good but he’s not worth us having to part ways with either Prado, Kimbrell, or Vizcaino. All you have to do is look at the Rangers to see the mistake we made by giving up too much to acquire Texiera. I know we have to give value to get value in most cases but let’s not get stupid. As for the World Series, how refreshing is it to see the Giants and Rangers instead of the same old same old aka the Yankees. The only time I enjoy seeing the same team in the playoffs and/or Series is when the Bravos are in it. I’m pulling for the Rangers but it should be a fun series. That Posey kid for the Giants is going to be McCann’s main competition for the All-Star game for the next several years.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
12:41 pm

Murph
To me the pennant race would be totally ruined by adding teams. I like the Hawks and Falcons and I keep up with both the NBA and NFL and honestly I couldn’t tell you what teams won each division last year. They’re just too many teams making it to the postseason to pay the division championships any attention. It’s a BAD idea!!!

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
12:44 pm

I’d rather have the other Upton, Justin. Bad attitude and all, he can hit. BJ Upton could be a risk worth taking though, especially if the price is right. I’d still say get themselves another OF. Swisher would be good to stick in LF. Use McLouth as an emergency starter– it’d have to be a serious emergency though.

Fleming

October 26th, 2010
12:45 pm

Once again we see the Blog Master (DOB) at work. Off season, blog hits slowing, let’s mention Francoeur and bump the blog hits up again. Let the Frenchy Lovers/Haters go at each other for awhile. Great work DOB. What a master.

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
12:45 pm

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
12:47 pm

Relax fellas, WREN’s not giving away the farm to get one more bat. Not his style. No more LOWE’s FA contracts either IMHO of course.

N8

October 26th, 2010
12:48 pm

njbraves, I look at it this way with Jeff and Andruw as possible options in LF next year….

If you have a moped (Jeff or Andruw), there comes a time when you realize it’s not the safest, most efficiant way to get from point A to point B. Everybody would love a fancy new car to drive around. But after awhile, when you’ve traded the moped for a scooter (Ryan Church), that has since moved on, and tried replacing the scooter with a pair of roller skates, a skateboard and an old pair of sneakers, once you realize that you can’t afford the fancy new car……

You realize it wouldn’t be that bad to have the moped back after all compared to what you’ve had since getting rid of it.

Still think Wren can do better. But 2010 shows that he could do a lot worse as well. Way more about the surrounding players improving and getting a legit CF to bat cleanup.

If Andruw (or somebody like him) is on this team batting 7th or 8th playing LF next year? That means the rest of the lineup is likely pretty good and I’m cool with that.

If Jeff Francoeur is batting cleanup and playing LF this year? Wren might wanna run and hide…. quickly.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
12:51 pm

N8, your bold type caught my eye. I read every word of your post and it really sunk in nicely– thanks to the bold type.

Glen W

October 26th, 2010
12:53 pm

Still can’t believe that some of you think Kemp would be better than Rasmus. Dude batting average dropped aalmost 50 points and he struck out 40 more times at age 25 than the previous year. Not the most encouraging trend.

And you guys are comparing Rasmus to McClouth? Based upon what?

Rasmus played at age 23 last year, hit OPS was higher by 100 points. He’s a legit defensive CF… debatable on Kemp.

Rasmus offers two more years of control.

How is this even a discussion?

njbraves

October 26th, 2010
12:54 pm

If the Braves end up with Frenchy or Andruw, Wren is a failure. I’m sorry, but there is no good reason to bring back either guy. Trades are the way to go. I’d love to get Werth or Crawford, but the budget doesn’t allow the Braves to be players in top tier FA’s anymore. Atlanta is so loaded with young pitching there is no reason to not use it to their advantage.

N8

October 26th, 2010
12:55 pm

“Even if Nate’s salary was $2 mil, I dont think he has decent value as a 4th OF. imo, he doesnt excel at anything. At least Ankiel has a great arm, or Diaz hits lefties well (or used to), what would Nate bring to the table?”

I think you’re missing the point of a what a 4th outfielder is around for.

Spot start to give guys days off. Preferably sombebody who can play CF and spot start in the corners if needed. Nate has won a GG in CF. Maybe he didn’t deserve it. Maybe he did. Either way, it’s on his resume. Somebody somewher thought he could go catch the ball at one point.

He can still run. A 4th outfielder is often asked to pinch run. Nate can do that.

He has a little pop in his bat. Not real consistent with it. But it’s there.

On most teams, bench guys are bench guys for a reason. If Nate had the tools you spoke of, he wouldn’t be on the bench. He’d be starting. It’s the difference between the Yankees and everybody else.

Same goes for Omar Infante. On the Yankees or Red Sox, dude might get 150 AB, and be the 24th guy on the bench. On the Braves, he’s probably our 3rd or 4th best (most consistent) hitter.

It’s all relative man. By “value” I wasn’t referring to anything having to do with the dollars. Obviously, he’s not worth close to what he’s making (talking about Nate).

But so what? Heyward is making 400K next year. So is Hanson, Venters, Kimbrel and Freeman.

Some contracts are steals. Some are anchors. Nate’s 6.5 million dollar contract is NOT the reason this team won’t win, if they don’t win next year.

Not when you’ve got Chipper making 14 million and Kawakami making 6 million, I’d add Lowe to that group. But dude earned his money in September and October as far as I’m concerned. At least for next year. Not so sure about the 15 million owed to him in 2012.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
12:58 pm

“All you have to do is look at the Rangers to see the mistake we made by giving up too much to acquire Texiera. – 59bulldawg”

Feliz is the only thing that the Braves are missing from the Tex deal

Piedmont Blues

October 26th, 2010
1:02 pm

Denizens, I’m agnostic about Infante’s value as a regular. He didn’t exactly provide Gold Glove defense anywhere he played. So maybe he is a guy you move around the diamond while giving him regular playing time. So make him part of a LF platoon and give him 20-25 starts at 3B, SS, 2B.

As a hitter, I’m reminded of something TP said near the end of the season. Infante looks for a pitch to hit in his zone and swings away. It’s not much more complicated than that. I might prefer someone who tries to work the count and make the pitcher sweat. But this approach has worked for him since he’s been in Atlanta, so I’m not about to question it.

N8

October 26th, 2010
1:04 pm

TnBrian. Cool. It was also supposed to be in ALL CAPS, but alas, I forgot to do it that way. Glad you liked it. ;-)

“If the Braves end up with Frenchy or Andruw, Wren is a failure.” njbraves

Shouldn’t the season pan out first?

If you had stated that “If the Braves end up with Frenchy or Andruw, and FAIL to make the post-season because the lineup is weak again, then Wren is a failure.”

Last winter, Wren was a failure because he only signed Troy Glaus to play 1B. Last winter, Wren was a failure because all he got for Soriano was Chavez. Last winter, Wren was a failure because he didn’t find anybody to play LF everyday. Last winter, Wren was a failure because he traded Vazquez for Melky (according to those with short-sighted thoughts). At the deadline, Wren was a failure for only trading for Ankiel and Farnsworth. Wren was a failure for trading for Derrek Lee past his prime, etc…

See where this is going?

The team won 91 frickin’ games last year. Two years removed from winning only 72 games. They are in the same division with two teams with MUCH higher budgets than the Braves.

Heyward has a season under his belt. Freeman can’t possibly be any worse than Glaus was other than his May outburst of production. Kimbrel and Venters are going to form a 1-2 punch that few can match in their bullpen. Gonzo, while not Arod, will be around all year. TP is not the hitting coach anymore.

Judging Wren as a failure by something he does in November or December, without letting it play out is as silly as calling “ballgame” when the other team scores a single run in the top of the first inning.

brian

October 26th, 2010
1:05 pm

good post N8

O.J.

October 26th, 2010
1:05 pm

unbelievable, dont forget Elvis Andrus

Billy walsh

October 26th, 2010
1:09 pm

Unbelievable

you don’t think the braves are missing Elvis andrus? Did u see his defense against the yankees? You wouldn’t want him at the top of the braves order?

N8

October 26th, 2010
1:10 pm

“Feliz is the only thing that the Braves are missing from the Tex deal”

Again. Short-sighted at best. Andrus could have netted a greater return all by himself than the one year of Tex and one year of Kotchman/LaRoche than we got out of him.

Feliz too. Even Salty.

Worst case scenario, it would have allowed Wren to trade Escobar for something else, and make him available to more teams, not just one looking to move a veteran SS. But the Blue Jays knew we didn’t have any other option.

Perhaps Escobar could have been sent down, Andrus called up, and then this winter, let the teams lineup for Escobar (or Fredi could have maybe given Escobar another shot at it).

Wren sold about as low as you could sell on somebody with Escobar. Because he was desperate to get rid of him and needed to get a SS in return. Worst case scenario is what that trade scneario was. That being said, Gonzo wasn’t a horrible return on it.

But too many people act like the ONLY possible value of a young player is playing on that team.

Sure, we couldn’t have used Wainwright for a couple more years after the JD Drew trade. But JS could have traded for somebody that was going to stick around longer. Same with the Tex trade. What makes the Tex trade worse is that the team didn’t need offense. So JS sold the farm on an unecessary piece that never really had a shot of being around more than a year and a half.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
1:10 pm

OJ – Andrus is nothing special. .265/.342/.301/.643 is awful and his defense fell off a cliff this year. He’s young, but he’s also not that good

N8

October 26th, 2010
1:14 pm

“He’s young, but he’s also not that good”

Yet there he’ll be… batting leadoff in the world series. With our good buddy Jeff Francoeur also on his roster.

Amazing the Rangers got as far as they got with such a horrible shortstop, huh? Gotta be some sort of Bermuda Triangle/LOST kind of voodoo magic.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
1:14 pm

Personally, I think Wren in his search for outfielders should consider Omar the bar. Any acquistions have to be better hitters than Omar. In fact, as of right now I consider Omar to be our starting LF with Prado at 2B and Chipper at 3B.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
1:17 pm

Feliz is the only thing that the Braves are missing from the Tex deal

With Venters and Kimbrel, Feliz isn’t entirely “missing.”

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2010
1:18 pm

N8 – I don’t go back to the moped. I look for a good used car (not roller skates) or take a chance on a brand new economy car, that is not totally tested out, but has a good chance of getting me where I want to go. I also continue to look for a trade-in or bargain to upgrade my transportation. But I don’t settle for an option I already know I am not satisfied with.

Lew

October 26th, 2010
1:22 pm

unbelievable – Andrus numbers are awful? Aren’t they about what everyone claims would be great for Nate or, for that matter, any other outfield suggestion so far?

Jeff R

October 26th, 2010
1:23 pm

N8… your comments are on the mark. And…

All things considered, Alex Gonzalez was an okay return for Escobar, given the circumstances, but look at the left side of the Braves infield now.

Chipper – 39 in April and fragile, skills in decline. 34-year old Gonzo… maybe a bit better than adequate at this point in his career.

The left side of the Braves infield is potentially a big problem.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
1:23 pm

N8 if you really think that Andrus/Francoeur carried that team to the playoffs then good for you. Id be willing to bet that Hamilton, Cruz, Young, Vlad, Wilson, Lee, Hunter, and Lewis played a far far bigger role.

Its basically like saying that Melky is what got the Yanks to the World Series last year

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
1:27 pm

Lew – yes a .640OPS is terrible at any position.

beekay

October 26th, 2010
1:34 pm

I think 8-10 MLB teams would take KK if we pay 3 mill. Even with his terrible season he was still better than at least a dozen starters. For 3 mill and only one year he would be a bargain

Churchy

October 26th, 2010
1:38 pm

Andrus is very good. Any team would love to have him fielding and batting. You can’t always look at his season batting stats. They don’t tell the story. Prado is a good example. Prado is solid. He is so much better than a statistic that can be attached to him.

Glen W

October 26th, 2010
1:38 pm

So Frenchy and Elvis are good because they play on a team going to the World Series? So, what happened to Melky this year?

dmack2027

October 26th, 2010
1:38 pm

I wonder if things would have been different with Yunel under Fredi Gonzalez, if he could have survived to this year.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
1:39 pm

Couple of things to remember about Feliz is that he probably would be a starter for the Braves and that if Braves still had Feliz they probably wouldn’t have drafted Minor last year. One of the main reasons he was drafted was to provide cheap pitching depth until the younger guys are ready.

csg

October 26th, 2010
1:41 pm

unbelievable makes a very good point though. Andrus slugged .301 this year, thats Tony Pena Jr bad. We all talk about how much we hate Agon here, but compare him to Andrus this season.

Andrus – .265/.342/.301/.643
WAR 1.5
UZR 0.1

AGON – .250/.294/.447/.741
WAR 3.4
UZR 5.1

I really dont see how Andrus wouldve made the Braves any better this year. He wouldnt have pushed this team any further. About the only good defensive position that the Braves had all year was at SS. Both Yunel and AGON had far better defensive numbers too

Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans

October 26th, 2010
1:41 pm

If Francoeur is resigned, insanity has prevailed.

Chuck M.

October 26th, 2010
1:41 pm

DOB, I stand corrected on JJ’s free agency!

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
1:42 pm

N8

October 26th, 2010
1:43 pm

“With Venters and Kimbrel, Feliz isn’t entirely “missing.””

Again. Short-sighted, and only assuming that Feliz could help this team by playing for them.

If the Braves had Feliz, then they could trade him with Kimbrel or Venters taking over, or trade Kimbrel or Venters as the centerpiece for a guy like Rasmus.

59bulldawg

October 26th, 2010
1:44 pm

Unbelieveable . . . my point is simply that Andrus and Feliz were given up for about what . . . one season of Texiera . . . and now he’s gone. We didn’t have the dough to keep him and basically in the end, gave up a lot for a one year rental. In other words basically nothing. That’s a deal I think a lot of Braves fans would love to get back. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Shaun

October 26th, 2010
1:44 pm

TennesseePaul and N8, how does sample size and park adjustment apply to Infante being fortunate on balls in play in at least 2 of 3 seasons? This is not an argument about sample size. It’s an argument about how much control a player has over his results.

DAP, it’s possible that Infante has become a different hitter and his batting average on ball in play over the last 2-3 seasons actually is an indication of his new skills as a hitter. But I don’t know that that is obviously the case. His results on balls in play is so out of line, almost extremely out of line, from his career results that it’s probably not all attributable to his improvement as a hitter.

However, I do agree that he has improved as a hitter and his improvement along with his peak ages have coincided with his arrival to Atlanta. This is why, as I stated, I think Infante is probably not going to perform for the next 1-2 years as bad as his career numbers indicate but not as good as only his Braves numbers would indicate. I think something around his 2008 numbers are probably a realistic expectation for 2010-2011.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
1:45 pm

“Andrus is very good. Any team would love to have him fielding and batting. You can’t always look at his season batting stats. They don’t tell the story. Prado is a good example. Prado is solid. He is so much better than a statistic that can be attached to him.” – Churchy

a couple of things – Andrus may have the ability to become very good, right now he’s is not. Prado is solid because he’s a team leader and one of the best and most consistent hitters on our team. He’s going to give you a .310/.360/.460 line at 2B, of course he’s good. How are we suppose to compare players if we cant use their statistics?

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
1:45 pm

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
1:45 pm

Francoeur won’t be resigned.

N8

October 26th, 2010
1:47 pm

“So Frenchy and Elvis are good because they play on a team going to the World Series? So, what happened to Melky this year?”

He came from the reigning WS champs and helped a team that hadn’t got to the playoffs in 5 years finally get there again.

Don’t flip the point around. I’m not saying that Jeff and Andrus are good because they’re going to the world series. I’m saying that a team going to the world series doesn’t have to have all-stars at every positioon to get there.

Oh… for the record, Andrus was an all-star this year.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2010
1:53 pm

All things considered (age, cost, talent – total package) I take Andrus over EITHER Yunel OR AG.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
1:54 pm

I’m saying that a team going to the world series doesn’t have to have all-stars at every positioon to get there. – N8

I agree 100%

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2010
1:54 pm

I left out attitude.

Glen W

October 26th, 2010
1:54 pm

He came from the reigning WS champs and helped a team that hadn’t got to the playoffs in 5 years finally get there again.

Yes, his contributions were so valubale that we just had to make sure he is on the team next year.

I agree that a team going to the world series doesn’t have to have a star at every position. But the Braves biggest gap is in offensive production and you don’t solve that by targetting players who had the lowest (or who were among the lowest) at their position.

If the Braves had Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz in the line-up, the could probably play Nate in LF next year and they would be fine.

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2010
1:55 pm

I’m not going to rip Andruw because he was too good for too long.

I have no such compulsion towards Fracoeur however. He is not a moped,roller skates, tennis shoes, or whatever. He’s a piece of junk john boat, with a big hole in the bottom, and an eight horsepower kicker, with a hole in the cylinder, sitting on the bottom of a lake. If someone pulled it up, loaded it on a truck and tried to give it to me for free, I would grab my shotgun and tell them to get the hell off my property before I start blasting.

It’s a long way to spring training and what I want is a big ass moving truck, with instructions to deliver me to first place and the World Series. I may end up with a used four cylinder ford ranger, but right now I want a Peterbilt with the biggest engine they make.

N8

October 26th, 2010
1:58 pm

“This is why, as I stated, I think Infante is probably not going to perform for the next 1-2 years as bad as his career numbers indicate but not as good as only his Braves numbers would indicate. I think something around his 2008 numbers are probably a realistic expectation for 2010-2011.” Shaun

You mean when he went: .301/.344/.425/.768 with 3 HR and 36 RBI in 77 starts? (He went 3 for 18 with 1 triple and 4 RBI in PH duty – bringing his overall numbers down quite a bit).

As opposed to the comment you made at 10:31:

“I don’t think he’s likely, over the next season or two, to be as bad as his career numbers (.274/.319/.395) nor do I think he’s likely to be as good as his Braves numbers (.309/.353/.411/.764).”

I don’t understand. Earlier today you say he won’t match his “Braves numbers”, yet now you say that what he did in 2008 are more likely to be the result. Yet the numbers as a starter in 2008 are better than his overall numbers as a Brave and even if you add in the pinch hitting numbers, it’s such a minimal difference, it’s silly.

How about we just go with what I said earlier. He’s probably going to hit around .300, have an OBP around .350 or so, and an OPS in the neighborhood of .750 to .800?

:-)

bravesfanlm

October 26th, 2010
2:01 pm

DOB,

Do you see the braves trading for a guy like Ben Revere? A talented prospect that is currently blocked by veterans.

Glen W

October 26th, 2010
2:02 pm

The Braves need a bopper and they have the chips to go get one. I’m not saying trade the whole farm of arms. But we know a lot more about our prospects right now that we did last year. Getting your prospects past low A gives you a much improved idea of what you have.

Now, go get him… there are many teams that need pitching help, many!

abwright

October 26th, 2010
2:04 pm

I’m in favor of shortening the regular season and expanding the play offs OR of keeping the same season and returning to fewer playoff games (i.e., get rid of the divisions and just have a World Serious).

I doubt the latter is viable!

Why not have a first round of the play offs at a neutral site and run a round robin seeding tournament or a double elimination to filter out the less competitive seeds?

Then, play best of seven AL/NL champs and best of seven WS as we currently have, home field determined by seeding in the reg. season?

I realize that MLB would be moving towards a regular season that is something like the early rounds in a golf tournament (i.e, you play the reg season to “make the cut” then the post-season is a crap shoot).

However, the 5 game division series really fouls up the playoffs. If weak team A gets a few bounces and beats strong team B, then faces middling team C and allows them into the WS, it makes a mockery of the WS.

Jeff R

October 26th, 2010
2:04 pm

Andrus not better than Gonzalez? I think so, at this point in their careers. Would love having Andrus’ glove on the field and his speed in the Braves’ line up.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
2:05 pm

N8, let the Infante thing with Shaun go, will ya? Before I’m forced to compose a post in which I somewhat, semi-agree with him, LOL?

Churchy

October 26th, 2010
2:06 pm

How are we supposed to compare players if we cant use their statistics?

You have to use statistics. You also consider stuff such as: effort, attitude, swing, well hit balls, chasing bad pitches, plate discipline, timely hits, big hits when the team needs it the most, pressure situations, playing hurt, playing sick, apposing team/pitcher, situation stuff, etc…. We’ll be able to see what Andrus can do in the next few weeks.

N8

October 26th, 2010
2:09 pm

“If the Braves had Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz in the line-up, the could probably play Nate in LF next year and they would be fine.” Glen W

Thanks for backing up the point I’ve been making for two days.

That point being that IF Wren gets one big bat for CF and Chipper comes back healthy, Wren can get away with a platoon (less than ideal “fix”) in LF.

It’s that simple. If Wren is going to go sign Cody Ross to play CF? Then he needs to find somebody of about equal value (better than what we’ve had – or better than Jeff/Andruw) for LF.

He can go about two ways (probably more ways than that). He can sign/trade for one really big bat at either position and stick Nate in the other. Or sign two slightly above league average guys for both spots.

Yesterday (and the day before – it’s now 3 days in a row), I posted that in over 1200 plate appearances, ALL of our players that had AB’s while playing LF and CF combined for 21 HR and 131 RBI last year.

If Wren could find two guys capable of hitting 15-20 HR each and knocking in around 75-80 runs each, the production goes up and anything more is bonus.

It would literally be impossible for our LF and CF situation to be as dire as it was last year. If Wren were to sign BOTH Andruw (CF) and Jeff (LF), sadly enough it would still be an upgrade in production at the plate (and better defense).

Combined last year, Jeff and Andruw had 831 PA, 32 HR and 113 RBI.

My point isn’t that Jeff and/or Andruw are the answers we’re looking for out there. It’s that as bad as they both are, they’d still be upgrades over what we had last year. And somehow STILL managed to win 91 games.

I am not endorsing or pining for Wren to “go after” either of them. But I will say, just like Glaus last year, if all other options are exhausted with no trades or signings taking place, if Wren were to choose one of them (or somebody similar to them), to play LF after already filling the CF need????

I’d be alright with that.

If Chipper is healthy, it doesn’t matter if our LF and CF is Nate, Diaz and Ankiel again.

If Chipper’s not healthy? Then I’m not sure there’s anybody beyond signing both Crawford and Werth that’s going to get it done. With 14 million dollars going in Chipper’s bank account, it’s time for him to be the big “free agent” signing this winter and come back strong next year.

But I’m not counting on it.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
2:10 pm

Before I’m forced to compose a post in which I somewhat, semi-agree with him

I’m curious scoots… sounds like you have something better to do. Need any help with that?

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
2:10 pm

Yahoo’s got an article that says the Braves could have interest in Greinke, Fielder (?), Werth, and Kemp

N8

October 26th, 2010
2:11 pm

“N8, let the Infante thing with Shaun go, will ya? Before I’m forced to compose a post in which I somewhat, semi-agree with him, LOL?” scoots

That’s where the problem is. I actually agree with him too. I think his numbers will be close to what they were in 2008. Which is to say that he’ll pretty much do what he’s done since he’s been here.

The problem is that Shaun agrees with me, and just doesn’t realize it. :-)

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
2:11 pm

McFann O O – 6

October 26th, 2010
2:12 pm

Couch Tater

Haha! That’s cool (no pun intended)! So between your mother and my Grandparents, we’ve 101 years of refrigeration! :D

Glen W Now, go get him… there are many teams that need pitching help, many!

Yeah, but I thin Frank Wren has a neurotic fear of trading pitchers, especially for big bats.

old1414

October 26th, 2010
2:17 pm

LF trade options:
1)B.J. Upton-might not cost too much. Hit .238 so could buy low. He might be motivated to have big year.
2)Matt Kemp-probably would cost a lot.Big potential. attitude?
3)Josh Willingham- Nationals would ask for a load because of division rival. Injury prone?
4)Colby Rasmus- Best option but would cost the most. I think too much.
5)Juan Rivera- would cost the least.Had an off year. Has good career numbers.He might be ready for a better year
6)David DeJesus-lefty, less power.KC asked for a lot last summer

abwright

October 26th, 2010
2:19 pm

N8 … I don’t think 15-20 HRs is “average” for an out-field player any more, especially playing in the Ted. Players with those numbers are going to start getting more expensive. And 30 HR guys are going to get much more expensive.

Shaun

October 26th, 2010
2:19 pm

N8, his 2008 numbers are probably in line with his actual skills, which are different from his overall numbers with the Braves. That’s what I meant when I said he’s probably not going to be as bad as his overall career numbers but he’s not going to be as good as his overall Braves numbers.

I say around .290/.340/.400. .290/.340 may be slightly optimistic.

Soph

October 26th, 2010
2:21 pm

I have no such compulsion towards Fracoeur however. He is not a moped,roller skates, tennis shoes, or whatever. He’s a piece of junk john boat, with a big hole in the bottom, and an eight horsepower kicker, with a hole in the cylinder, sitting on the bottom of a lake. If someone pulled it up, loaded it on a truck and tried to give it to me for free, I would grab my shotgun and tell them to get the hell off my property before I start blasting.

:lol:

Mr Polygraph

October 26th, 2010
2:22 pm

So are they hiring trained chimps to write these hot stove articles?

How does Prince Fielder make sense to the Braves? The Braves have made it clear that Freddie Freeman is Heyward 2.0.

So where does Fielder fit in? Gonna plug him in and let him waddle around in left field?

Glen W

October 26th, 2010
2:22 pm

N8 (2:09 pm)

Intelligent response. But there is a big, big, big, big difference between us signing Glaus this past year and us going after a similar option for LF this year. Glaus was signed because we had a legit 1B prospect that was one year away from being ready. Not the case for our outfield…. there is no one.

Thus it makes much more sense to re-balance the roster a little and move some pitching potential for some offensive production. A stopgap does not make sense for our outfield right now.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
2:22 pm

I’m curious scoots… sounds like you have something better to do.

No, I merely fear the two-headed monster of agreeing with Shaun and causing a N8 reply. :-)

But what the hey…Shaun is close to right on Infante, just didn’t delve quite deeply enough. His excellent performance stemmed primarily from an outlier year against RHP. He was pretty much at his norms against LHP, both in his slash and BABIP. But against righties, he was both unconscious AND lucky.

Now, I suppose it’s always possible that he has found a way to increase his BABIP against righties by 60 points and can continue to find holes at a .370 clip, but I have just a tiny little bit of trouble believing it. :-)

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
2:23 pm

Please. If a trained chimp wrote an article, it’d look something like

awfeoiawienfuwenlifuawefawEDfshwasfawufawUAWHFAWHFUWAHFIUAWHFI

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
2:27 pm

I would like Dejesus but not for the asking price KC was asking for last summer. I saw somewhere that Rivera is a non-tender candidate. Dejesus is LH but a good bat for the top of the order. Hes got good speed and hits for a good average. Not a big basestealer but I’d take him for leadoff. Find a good RH bat to place in left and let Nate fill in when needed or platoon in LF.

Soph

October 26th, 2010
2:27 pm

Why am I not surprised?

Report: Cliff Lee’s wife harassed by New York Yankees fans

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5729471

DS1

October 26th, 2010
2:27 pm

Honestly, I don’t think Infante is nearly old enough to suffer from a fluctuating BABIP yet. He’s still a young man!

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
2:30 pm

Honestly, I don’t think Infante is nearly old enough to suffer from a fluctuating BABIP yet. He’s still a young man!

The doc says he has a low VORP to counteract it, Wayne. He’s OK.

dpelfrey

October 26th, 2010
2:31 pm

Rasmus will definitely cost a lot. Another name I saw pop up that would be interesting is Gerardo Parra with the D-Backs. Not sure where I read it, but whoever wrote it said the D-Backs might consider dealing him for good young pitching. Don’t known if there’s any truth to that, but the Braves have plenty of young pitching to offer.

I know he’s lefty and doesn’t hit for power, but I remember seeing him when the Braves played them last year and thinking he was going to be a good ballplayer.

Mr Polygraph

October 26th, 2010
2:31 pm

I find it hard to believe that Chipper’s name is even mentioned as “if Chipper is healthy.” Chipper IS NOT going to be healthy all year! The knee was a brand new issue for Chipper, at least brand new since ‘93. Chipper hasn’t been able to stay in the lineup due to issues other than that knee he blew up so just add that to the list of defective parts that will keep Chipper from being a dependable run producer next season.

Chipper has to be considered “gravy”, not the main course. If the Braves depend on Chipper to be a contributor all year and that is their recipe for advancing deep into the post season then it’s surely a recipe for failure.

If your girlfried does the dirty with the milkman 4 out of 5 times when your back is turned, you’re an idiot if you think she is less likely to repeat offend than more likely. Recent Chipper is MORE likely than less likely to puke out on the team. A new defective part and another year older.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
2:32 pm

That Yahoo article is a joke. Fielder? Greinke? Suuuuuure… think they can learn to play the OF? Otherwise they aren’t much use to the 2011 Braves.

This is going to be a long off season. Longer than last year’s. So much to do…

DS1

October 26th, 2010
2:32 pm

scoots

Thanks for clearing that one up. You guys had me worried for a while.

PS I love me some super utility Infante. Better than starter Infante. If we need to use him in some deal to secure more of a slugger, he has got to go. Otherwise, he is a great guy for the super utility job.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
2:34 pm

That Yahoo writer is MFin04, I think……..

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
2:35 pm

Ahhh, Wayne, nothing wrong with Oh-mah, not at all. Love the guy, in his role. I wouldn’t trade him, me, but I can understand why some folks might want to sell high on him, given an opportunity.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
2:36 pm

nolie, you would take Delmon Young but not BJ Upton Efrim

yeah I guess I would. part of that is likely that i live near the Rays and follow them some and like everybody down here I’m about sick and tired of Upton, both on the field and off. I just do not want him as a Brave. the thought on Young was close to a no too, and since I respect your opinion, if you say he’s no improvement I’ll go along with that since I am not all that familiar with the guy and his problems.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
2:36 pm

It’s not like the Yahoo article is completely about the Braves trading for Fielder. It just says he’s available and there’s a lot of places he could end up

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
2:39 pm

Look at Chippers rehab this way. At least now we know hes putting in tons of work this offseason. He may be in the best shape hes been in in awhile come ST.

N8

October 26th, 2010
2:39 pm

Shaun, you know I respect you and you always state your opinions with conviction and have your methods of coming up with them.

I actually agree with you. Omar hitting .290-.300 with an OBP af around .340 or so, is probably in line.

I just happen to believe that he’s more productive when starting. The numbers since he’s been a Brave show that. Some of it could be the hand injury and what not. But all three seasons, his numbers are better when getting regular AB.

Now, that being said, if you think Wren can do better than Omar for LF (hitting wise – Nate is probably better with the glove), I can live with that. But of guys currently on the roster and guys that were on the roster last year, even without the injuries to Prado and Chipper, Omar’s bat should have been in the lineup everyday as it eventually was by default.

Glen W, thanks. No need to get snippy in the off-season, right? LOL!

I actually agree with you to an extent as well. But with the money coming off the books down the road, I’d still rather see Wren do a short-term (cheaper) solution and roll with what we’ve got, for multiple reasons.

1) We need to know what Freeman is. If Freeman shows signs of being our first baseman and a middle of the order bat for years to come? That’s a good thing. That gives us 2 legit power guys that are young and cheap for the middle of the order moving forward.

2) Who knows what the rotation holds after 2011? I hate to move Delgado, Minor or JJJ without knowing for sure what to expect AFTER next year. Lowe could be dealt next winter with a good 2011 campaign. JJJ could certainly be moved if Teheran is ready on opening day 2012. Will Medlen come back strong? What other injuries might occur between now and then.

I believe with subtle fixes in CF and LF, the team will be in as good of a position to legitimately compete moving forward. With 2012 and 2013 being the years where we go back to being one of the elite teams with EXCELLENT young talent on the roster. All of the young guys (Kimbrel, Freeman, Venters, Heyward, Minor, Medlen, Hanson and even guys like Hicks, Teheran and Delgado), will have time under their belt and ready to move on. That along with Hudson, Chipper and Lowe’s contracts coming off the books, Wren will be in a position to make a push at some top tier free agents.

I just hate to see those young guys (Teheran, Delgado, JJJ, Minor, Venters and Kimbrel – and even Freeman), get used as trade bait for one big push next year.

It’s the beginning of the Fredi Gonzalez regime. No more reason to go for broke next year to send Bobby out a winner.

Worst case scenario, Wren could use one of those guys at the deadline to bolster our chances in 2011 if need be. I just hope that if it happens this time around, it’s for a guy like Kemp or Rasmus that is under control for longer than Tex or JD Drew were.

That all being said, as I’ve stated before, as long as Wren makes a move for a guy like that (young, talented, ML ready and under control for a few years), I would be OK with moving a young gun for somebody like that this winter. But I think Wren has shown that with this budget he has very little interest in moving the young talent.

Chipper deserves to go out on his terms. He’s earned that. But that damn contract with the reality of what he’ll provide is one big black cloud hanging over Wren and the budget right now. If that contract wasn’t there, Wren could realistically overpay for a guy like Werth or Crawford and not have it do long-term damage, even if they underachieved. Which of course would allow him to hang onto the young guys.

He’s got tough decisions to make this winter. But at the same time, he’s trying to improve a 91 win team, not a 72 win team like the winter after the 2008 season. So the task at hand isn’t as big. Along with what DOB said (I think DOB stated it a few days back) about it being pretty clear cut where the area of need is on the team. Allowing Wren to completely focus on LF and CF. That alone should make the job easier for him.

Lollygagger

October 26th, 2010
2:41 pm

Why do we need Greinke? Pitching is not what the Braves need this offseason.

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
2:43 pm

Delmon hit .298 with 21 hr and 112 rbi this year. OBP .333 and OPS was .826. This was his best power year but hes always hit for a good average. He use to be an attitude problem but I haven’t heard any problems with him the last two years or so.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
2:43 pm

My Grandparents have a 50 year-old refrigerator.

my mom has a 65 year old son, who unfortunately is rapidly approaching obsolescence :cry:

DAP

October 26th, 2010
2:45 pm

i thought the yahoo article was pretty good.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
2:47 pm

I don’t think Infante is as good as his Braves numbers either, but the lil’ bugger hasn’t let me prove it for the last three years

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
2:47 pm

I did too, DAP….it’s just an observer’s look at how 10 free agents could affect 30 teams. If it was titled “The Braves NEED to trade for Greinke and Fielder NOW!!” and authored by .Don, then we could call it stupid.

N8

October 26th, 2010
2:49 pm

Exactly nolie (@ 2:47). At some point, you just have to play the guy until he stops doing what he’s doing.

Fortunately for him (and unfortunately for Chipper), it’s moot point, because I think he’ll get plenty of AB next year moving around the diamond like he always does.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
2:50 pm

I don’t either nolie

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
2:50 pm

Why do we need Greinke? Pitching is not what the Braves need this offseason.

Not always a straight line from A to B. I could envision some scenarios in which a prospect package that was unattractive to a partner with a bat, might go to another team to return ML pieces that would allow the Braves to put together a different package for the bat-partner without subtracting from their strength.

Pick up a Greinke, maybe Hanson becomes expendable. Who knows? Just saying that there’s more than one way to make the pieces fit, doesn’t always have to be completely direct.

Lollygagger

October 26th, 2010
2:53 pm

point taken, scoots. hadn’t thought of Greinke as trade bait tht way.

Mr Polygraph

October 26th, 2010
2:54 pm

I’m not as confident that the “area of need” is going to be effectively addressed. After all…. Wren went into last season knowing he had the same “area of need” and his solution was to break camp with J-Hey (PR coup,hot shot, cant miss, rookie- divert fan attention) and tell the world the Braves would be fine with what they had. They weren’t. They were still short that bat in the outfield. If Wren shops in the bargain bin again this season (no reason to think he won’t) then the results this year can be expected to be similar to the results this year. In fact, may be worse. I’m not sure the Braves can depend on leading the NL in comeback wins every year.

Probably going to take sending JJ or other prospects down the road to bring back affordable production.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
2:59 pm

houldn’t the season pan out first? N8

heck no, If I hafta win the WS with Frenchy I’d just as soon pass thank you. How embarrassing !

Tomas

October 26th, 2010
3:01 pm

Hey just went to the Rays blog to see what they thought about trading BJ Upton.

What to do with Upton? He’ll be getting a raise his off-season and we have more than enough outfield depth (Desmond Jennings, Matt Joyce, Sean Rodriguez, Ben Zobrist), so many people want to see him traded. However, it’s unlikely that we’d get a good deal for him considering how much of his value is tied to his defense, and his swing was finally back on track by the end of the season. Now is the Rays’ last chance to lock Upton up for a below-market-value contract, maybe shooting for a three-year, $15-18M deal. If Upton still doesn’t sign, then I believe we should try to shop him this off-season. The off-season market for centerfielders is shallow, and Upton could be the most enticing player on the market. This could be our best shot to get a good value for Upton, so if a good deal comes along, the Rays should jump on it.

http://www.draysbay.com/2010/10/25/1771059/andrew-friedmans-off-season-to-do-list-creating-the-2011-tampa-bay

I agree with Steve Slowinski who wrote this.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
3:01 pm

Wren went into last season knowing he had the same “area of need” and his solution was to break camp with J-Hey (PR coup,hot shot, cant miss, rookie- divert fan attention) and tell the world the Braves would be fine with what they had

That, and he had little money to do anything significant. You can’t walk into Abercrombie with $5 and expect to buy anything. You gotta shop at Goodwill.

DAP

October 26th, 2010
3:02 pm

mr polygraph his solution was to break camp with J-Hey (PR coup,hot shot, cant miss, rookie- divert fan attention) and tell the world the Braves would be fine with what they had. They weren’t.

in his defense, the j-hey thing worked out pretty good. he didnt see mclouth’s slide coming, and probably thought diaz and melky would perform a bit better. we can bash him on that, but he was right to throw heyward into the outfield mix. i think if mclouth performed reasonably, we arent having the conversation about how bad the outfield was.

Hillbilly

October 26th, 2010
3:02 pm

Hot Damn! A new little Hillbilly on the way next summer.

noleeeee

October 26th, 2010
3:02 pm

Short-sighted at best. Andrus could have netted a greater return all by himself than the one year of Tex and one year of Kotchman/LaRoche than we got out of him.

Feliz too. Even Salty. N8

geeze you have GOT to be kidding. wow I caint believe you said that

N8

October 26th, 2010
3:03 pm

Exactly scoot.

Mr Polygraph, I had a conversation with another blogger about this yesterday (or the day before).

I agree that the comeback wins probably won’t be as occuring this season. But they won’t need to be if the offense isn’t so putrid to begin with. Our LF and CF production were historically bad last year.

I documented that other than Heyward and Prado, no other Braves regular hit over .240 for the month of April. Glaus, Chipper and Mac, combined for 5 HR and 23 RBI in April. Heyward had 6 HR and 19 RBI in April (23 games). We had 3 guys hitting .195 or less in April. We got literally nothing from Escobar for 3 months. Gonzo is not as good as the guy we traded for, and isn’t going to put up the power numbers he did in Toronto. But it is also very unlikely he’ll have a 1st half as bad as Escobar’s was.

Our LF and CF production were so far below “league average” production, that if Wren simply replaces that production with league average guys, the lineup will be deeper and more consistent. Which means, instead of trailing 3-1 in the 6th inning the game might be tied or we (GASP) might actually have a lead. Thus eliminating the need for come from behind wins.

Too many people acting like the poor outfield production hindered this team from doing anything good last year. That poor outfield production DID hinder us from running away with the NL East, and ultimately killed us in the playoffs. But for 2/3 of the year (even with that putrid outfield production), the Braves were one of the, if not THE best teams in the NL.

If you need a ceiling fan in your living room you don’t take out all of the windows to put it in. This is still a good team on the rise. No need to panic if you’re Wren. Besides, part of me believes that Wren thinks some of the problem was with TP’s approach as hitting coach, which is why he removed him from those duties.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:04 pm

Frank’s kinda pushing his luck with me. It’s been two weeks since we were knocked out of the playoffs. What’s the deal, buddy?? Get with the program and get to wheelin and dealin would ya!

Mr Ray J

October 26th, 2010
3:06 pm

A lot of stuff has bee thrown against the wall here this week. To me, it makes the most sense to do whatever is necessary to acquire Rasmus from the Cards. And then, just because I’m a sentimental schmuck, sign Andruw Jones. The line-up then becomes:

1. Prado 2B
2. Heyward RF
3. Chipper 3B
4. Rasmus CF
5. McCann C
6. Andruw/Nate platoon LF
7. Freeman 1B
8. Gonzales SS

If Chipper can’t go, then Infante plays 2B, Prado goes to 3B, Infante leads off, and Prado and Heyward each move up one slot in the order.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
3:06 pm

geeze you have GOT to be kidding. wow I caint believe you said that>

Just a little prospect-hugging, nolie. Three years of distance makes a lot of ex-’s look good, LOL.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
3:07 pm

McEased that one. Maybe McFann-ed it, too, for all I know. :-)

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2010
3:08 pm

Hot Damn! A new little Hillbilly on the way next summer.

Congrats man.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:08 pm

Mr Polygraph

Now, now. Do I sense you need a hug? Don’t go getting all hurt on us. Trust in smilin’ Frank, he will not let you down.

:wink:

DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm

Do we really need more Hillbillies??

(congrats!!!)

:lol:

N8

October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm

“geeze you have GOT to be kidding. wow I caint believe you said that.”

Why? You don’t think that at the time of the trade, JS could have traded Salty to a team looking for a catcher of the future for a young outfielder that could have been under our control for a few years that would be better than Melky?

DOB just stated that if the Cardinals are to move Rasmus, they’d probably start by asking for Kimbrel. A guy with 20.2 IP in the majors under his belt.

You don’t think that if the Braves still had Feliz they couldn’t get a bigger prize than one year of Tex and one year of Kotchman/LaRoche for him?

Probably not as dynamic of a player as Tex is/was. But certainly somebody under control for longer than a year. Add to that, if Feliz was still in the system there would have been ZERO reason to sign Wagner, leaving Wren more money for the outfield bats.

It’s not that complicated nolie. Don’t try to make it out to be something that it wasn’t intended to state.

Hindsight tells us that Salty hasn’t amounted to much. But Tyler Flowers netted us Javier Vazquez (two years of him). You can’t tell me that if JS was simply looking to move a catching prospect for an outfield prospect at that time, it couldn’t have been done.

But to give up Andrus, Salty, Harrison (who cares?) and Feliz for one year and two months of Tex? Only to flip Tex for Kotchman and the LaRoche? Come on man. Hindsight says that was a bad day in Braves history and you know it.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm

I think the days of seeing Heyward at 2 are pretty well toast.

Soph

October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm

Congrats Hillbilly!

noleeeee

October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm

Andrus numbers are awful? Aren’t they about what everyone claims would be great for Nate or, for that matter, any other outfield suggestion so far? LEW

what? 643? no they are more like what we got out of everybody we hated last year. 643? By gawd I sure hope we don’t get any 643 hitters, plus he plays half his games in a great hitters park, which is a pretty good indication that he would hit even less than 643 here. . Except for speed he pretty much brings little to the game. He fits in well there with thay offense behind him, but even so he scoted 14 fewer runs than Playdough did for us in less PAs.. One good postseason does not a good hitter make, ask Lempke. The “greatness” of Elvis Andrus at this point is an urban legend,

noleeeee

October 26th, 2010
3:13 pm

yeah sure N8. whatever you say.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
3:15 pm


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DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:15 pm

The only .643’s this lineup needs are in the 9 slot!

N8

October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm

More killer ripping from the great nolie, with no logic to back it up.

Well done. I’d expect nothing less from you.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm

There you go… It’s either make a picture of the Man In Black, or debate the Teixeira trade and Omar’s role…

DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm

Am I a troubled soul? That post by 10Paul made a lot of sense to me! Agree 100%

noleeeee

October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm

Andrus not better than Gonzalez? I think so, at this point in their careers. Would love having Andrus’ glove on the field and his speed in the Braves’ line up

not this year you wouldn’t have. Gonzalez had 16 runs saved, Andrus had one.
and speed is not a killer. Prado scored more runs in fewer PAs on a weaker offensive team than Andrus did.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
3:18 pm

There you go… It’s either make a picture of the Man In Black, or debate the Teixeira trade and Omar’s role…

Whew. Thank goodness. For a moment, I thought it was a monkey writing a Yahoo baseball article.

DAP

October 26th, 2010
3:19 pm

ata boy, hillbilly.

nice MIB portrait, 10paul.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:20 pm

I’m still ticked off we dealt Denis Menke to the Astros for Sonny Jackson!!! What a rip!

Guys, can we get over the old trades? Does it matter if the Vazquez deal or the Teixeira, or the Wainwright deal were bad deals (or not)???

Ancient history folks. FW is not John Schuerholz.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
3:20 pm

He really TennesseePauled that one

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
3:21 pm

Hillbilly, how does the scorecard read now, with the new addition? That is, how far along are we on a full lineup, LOL?

DS1

October 26th, 2010
3:22 pm

I looked at 10Paul’s post upside down, and I think it says “redrum”.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
3:23 pm

not this year you wouldn’t have

But nolee, Elvis is in the post season getting a lot of press right now. He is obviously the better player and easily in the running for best lead-off hitter in the majors… And he was all ours at one point. JS squandered him away for nothing more than the best slugging, fielding, switch hitter in the majors at the time. Foolishness.

noleeeee

October 26th, 2010
3:25 pm

you “logic” is so off the mark that it would takes reams of p[rint to debate N8, and unlike you I don’t write comments that long.

Hillbilly

October 26th, 2010
3:25 pm

He really TennesseePauled that one –jeffrey d

You beat me to it. New blog terminology. I believe 10Paul has reached Shaun-induced Statistical Overload. Operating limits exceeded. Shutting down.

NEW CARS

October 26th, 2010
3:25 pm

I still say add Zobrist to the list of possibilities, although the Rays seem to have plenty of pitchers.

CB

October 26th, 2010
3:26 pm

Johnny Cash?

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2010
3:26 pm

It looks better that the chart I tried to post last night, whatever it is.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
3:26 pm

scoots, It’s like that digital art from the mid-90’s. You have to look past it to see it. If you blur your vision just right there-in lies the answer to what exactly the Braves could have gotten had they held on to Feliz, Salty, and Elvis until this off-season.

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm

I read somewhere that the Angels are looking to move Juan Rivera to make room to pursue Crawford and Werth.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm

nolie

October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm

You have to look past it to see it. If you blur your vision just right there-in lies the answer to what exactly the Braves could have gotten had they held on to Feliz, Salty, and Elvis until this off-season. 10P

or we could just ask N8

Hillbilly

October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm

Thanks Bat, Soph, and DAP.

Wayne, there’s always room for more Hillbillies. (Although this will be the last in my household.)

Scoots, Counting the wife and I, we will be able to staff a Major League starting rotation. Although this #5 starter won’t be ready for call-up until late June/early July.

N8

October 26th, 2010
3:30 pm

nolie, I had a response to you that the blog ate, so I’ll repost it:

Answer this question nolie and I’ll let it go.

If the Rangers were to put Feliz on the open market this year, do you think they could get an outfielder from a team that would be a better option than anybody we currently have on the roster, or used last year in LF or CF?

If you’re answer to that question is absolutely not, please explain. If your answer is yes, then my point is valid. Period.

I’ll be patiently waiting for your reply and reasoning.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
3:34 pm

If the Rangers were to put Feliz on the open market this year, do you think they could get an outfielder from a team that would be a better option than anybody we currently have on the roster, or used last year in LF or CF

Sheeesh that’s a terrible premise.
1) Currently on the roster is Jason Heyward. Elvis Andrus would not ever net Jason Heyward.
2) Looking only at LF and CF, the team could trade just about any minor leaguer, hell, call up just about any minor leaguer to get better production than what the team had at those two spots. The team got more from trading HoRam than from LF and CF this year. So the point is moot. Don’t need Elvis for that roll.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
3:39 pm

I understood you to say that any one of those guys would bring more than 1 1/2 years of Tex. That is not what you are saying now. Do I think Feliz would bring more than that amount of a player of Tex quality, no I do not, and I damn sure don’t think Salty or Andru swould even come close. I agree that Feliz would probably bring back a better OFer than we have, but so what. He ain’t here now.
If hindsight were foresight almost any idiot-well maybe not a few of those on here- could be a GM. And many, using hindsight think they should be. That’s not how it works unfortunately.
I have said all along that we would miss Feliz but that’s what happens in trades, you give to get. It was not Tex’s fault (orWren’s really since he looked for pitching first) that what pitching we had took a crap right after he got here.
Of all the guys traded one is now a star and one MIGHT become a star-I doubt star myself-all the rest has been basically worthless.
I agree that they would be worth more now in today’s market, but that is not what I reacted to at least as I read your post I responded to.

N8

October 26th, 2010
3:43 pm

T-Paul, first of all the discussion is about Feliz. NOT Elvis.

Secondly, I’m not looking to replace Heyward. So yes, your testimony is moot.

It’s a simple question. Since the Braves got 1 good year of Tex and 2 good months of LaRoche (Kotchman was as worthless as Thorman was), had they hung on to Feliz (by himself), could they have netted better worth than they did trading all of them for Tex.

By “worth”, that could mean using Feliz in the bullpen and not being so desperate for Wagner, or trading Soriano earlier, or not trading for Soriano at all, or simply trading Feliz at a later date.

By all reports, Feliz was going to be a stud. Which is why Texas wanted him.

Like I said. Simple question. Could the resources have been better spent than one year of Tex and 2 months of LaRoche (which of course didn’t get us in the playoffs in either case).

Keep sidestepping the question guys. I know it puts a dent in your method or ripping on me. But it’s really not that difficult of a question to answer, unless you’re not interested in being wrong. :-)

N8

October 26th, 2010
3:44 pm

Fair enough nolie. Thanks for actually answering the question. That wasn’t that hard was it? ;-)

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
3:45 pm

its a pointless argument…the braves needed a 1B and they got basically a full season of Mark Teixeira for Feliz and a bunch of average/below average ball players. Tex gave the braves 101R 174H 37HR 134RBI 1.020OPS in 2007 and .902OPS in 2008. Who knows what Feliz value is right now, Texas isnt going to trade him. It wasnt a good trade because Tex couldnt carry this team by himself and the pitching staff fell apart. Its easy to second guess the deal now

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
3:48 pm

N8

If you don’t trade Feliz then you dont get Tex. Tex was acquired to make a run at the postseason. Unfortunately we had a couple of injuries that took us out of that running. This wasn’t renting a guy for 2 months. It was a year and a half of Tex. We didn’t compete and traded him off. Personally I think we should have got more in return or just not traded him at all. But to get talent you have to move talent and the braves were in a win it now mindsight so you have to move Feliz.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
3:49 pm

It’s a useless question N8, which is why nobody is bothering to answer it. It’s one a them hypothetical scenarios that you so get off on that are really more mental masturbation than they are anything else. Totally meaningless in the real world, and impossible to answer because without that trade being made we have no idea what would have occurred, if they would even have developed to the same place they are at now. or they might have been traded the next season for even less.
those two comments are all you’re gonna get from me, but I don’t think your claims are receiving the positive response that you think they deserve, but maybe Mitchell or Robert or Don will show up and back your reasoning.

bobbymahlon

October 26th, 2010
3:55 pm

If the Braves trade Prado or Kimbrel for Rasmus they are nuts. These two are going to be key players for many years to come. If the Braves got Franceour he should be placed in right field and move Heyward to left or center. Jeff has a better arm and covers right better than Heyward (former gold glover). McLouth cannot play center or right because he has a worse arm than most any outfielder I have ever seen.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
3:57 pm

Jeff Francoeur should never be a memeber of the Braves again. We need outfield solutions not more problems

Murph

October 26th, 2010
3:59 pm

All this talk of past Braves and nobody has suggested bringing Hank out of retirement? I would rather have a 76 year old Hank in LF than Nate.

No, I’m not kidding. I would buy tickets to see that.

Brave4life

October 26th, 2010
4:02 pm

No more platoons in the OF

I miss out hitting era

Prime Marcus Giles
Furcal
Javy lopez
Chipper
Jd Drew
andruw Jones
Gary Sheffield
Vinny Castilla

MiaBchBravesFan

October 26th, 2010
4:02 pm

Done deal. Baylor is the D-backs new hitting coach.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
4:04 pm

nolie, about Tex- lets talk about it. F*** 2011, I want to relive the summer of 2007 when Teixeira was brought to Atlanta and what was sent to Texas in the deal. I really can’t get enough of it.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
4:04 pm

first of all the discussion is about Feliz. NOT Elvis.

Apologies all around.

Now do a search and replace of Elvis for Feliz in my comment. It’s still the same. It’s a terrible, horrible premise and an absolutely pointless question.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:05 pm

got nuttin’ against platoons myself. rich successful baseball tradition.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:06 pm

I’m responding to someone else Brian, I did nor originate the discussion, go fuss at him ;)

NEW CARS

October 26th, 2010
4:07 pm

Kimbrel’s nice and all that, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for a 4-5 tool talent like Rasmus. Would rather have a RH bat, but I would take him nevertheless. A core of Heyward, Freeman, Prado, McCann and Rasmus would be a good start to longterm success. We have Venters, Marek, Dunn or a guy like Vizcaino who could come in as a closer, or go get a free agent like we did last year.
I think you could come up with 20 available potential closers in our organization or the open market that would compare to Kimbrel right now. I’ve seen the lists, but you guys refresh my memory on the 15-20 guys that might be available who could compare to Rasmus. Keep in mind that Rasmus will cost only a fraction more than Kimbrel over the next couple of years.
The true untouchables in the organization should be Heyward, Hanson, McCann, Prado and Teheran. Anyone else should be on the table, but only for similar talent in similar conditions (ie. salary and time of control and mental state).
I still wouldn’t be against a run at Gonzalez if he could be signed for 5-6 years at 16-18 mill.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
4:09 pm

nolie, I know I know. I was just messin with you because I know you, like me, have been sick of the whole Tex thing for years now.

Pameeee

October 26th, 2010
4:10 pm

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
3:57 pm
Jeff Francoeur should never be a memeber of the Braves again. We need outfield solutions not more problems

Thank you, thank you very much, I agree.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:11 pm

maybe it’s the right brain, left brain thingy N8. we approach things from a 180 degree opposite. I believe in hard logic and reality you are more creative and imaginative. When you challenge me to answer a question or reply to a concept that I find pretty meaningless I gots to admit that it sometimes irritates me and I respond more harshly than I should.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:12 pm

yup, I could live out my few remaining years without ever hearing about that trade again, and be perfectly happy Brian ;)

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:15 pm

I’m really surprised that people are willing to toss Kimbrell aside considering Kimbrell would not be the centerpiece of a deal to get Rasmus or Kemp. And considering the hell we went through in the 90s of watching the bullpen cost us championships.

For maybe the first time, in the history of the club we have a potentially dominant 1-2 punch in the bullpen that will be cheap for the next 5 years. I don’t think we should be willing to give it away at all.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:22 pm

I don’t think we should be willing to give it away at all. LPad

I see your point and kinda agree. Other may be thinking thatt both are too young and too inexperienced to be totally certain they will continue to be as good-I think it is likely though- and a top quality hitter will impact a season more often than a closer usually does, or at least that is the thinking of many.
I would be reluctant to lose either , it would take a special return IMO.
I’ve been a believer for years that the pen is becoming more and more important to a team as the starting pitching spends less time on the mound than it used to. Need a balance of all 4 assets, to have the most chance to be successful.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
4:22 pm

The first Teixeira trade is the most disappointed I’ve been with a personnel move since the Dale Murphy deal in 1990, one that represented the end of an era. As much as I disliked the Wainwright trade (I never cared for JD Drew as a player), the Tex deal is one where I found myself wondering if our GM was being blackmailed. It was that outrageous to me. The “good” news since then is that Salty hasn’t been what he had been projected to be. Everything else about it makes me sick to my stomach.

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:24 pm

N8, forget it. The rest of this blog is still in denial.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
4:25 pm

Don’t forget, they didn’t just get Tex, they also got Ron Mahay… for Salty and 4 of our best minor league players… 4 of our best… 4… son of a…

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
4:25 pm

LPad, it’s ok. Nobody here makes any trades in real life anyways.

NEW CARS

October 26th, 2010
4:26 pm

I’m not for giving it away, but if Kimbrell can be the key in a trade to get someone like Delmon Young, Rasmus or Ben Zobrist, then I would be ok with it. There are plenty of closers available and we may already have one in Venters. We don’t have guys like that in our system.

AdirondackDave

October 26th, 2010
4:26 pm

LPad — I agree with you on that. Kimbrel has to be added to the untouchable list. In fact, I would have him in front on Mac on that list.

NEW CARS

October 26th, 2010
4:27 pm

DOB,
Do Wren and the front office look at Wilken Ramirez as anything other than a AAA roster filler. Do you sense that they might think they have a lottery ticket there and that he might develop into what the Tigers thought he would be.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
4:27 pm

Other may be thinking thatt both are too young and too inexperienced to be totally certain they will continue to be as good

Trading one of Kimbrell or Venters leaves them pretty much banking on the one that is left, also. At least with both in the pen, you have a better chance that one of the two will fulfill the hopes and dreams of oour contributors. :-)

Murph

October 26th, 2010
4:27 pm

Taken from the Tex trade announcement:

“When asked if it would be worth giving up so many prospects if Teixeira is in Atlanta for only two years, Schuerholz shrugged.

“I’ll think about next year next year,” Schuerholz said.

“If we win two pennants it is, or one World Series and one pennant. We wouldn’t have done it if we didn’t think it was worth it. We hope the result is that we win because of it, but there are no guarantees in baseball,” he said.”

No guarantees in baseball.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:28 pm

everybody to their own GV. I fail to understand that thinking, but then you must fail to understand mine
I do find it hard to know why folks keep obsessing about something that old when nobody has a real idea of what might have happened if it didn’t go down. It’s over, been over, let it go IMO.
I have little thought for evaluating things with hindsight, but I am gathering from the tenor of your post that you hated it from the beginning?

Glen W

October 26th, 2010
4:28 pm

There is also no crying in baseball. So get off of it, N8. :)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:29 pm

yup, just coach and N8, the rest of us are maroons ;)

AZBravoFan

October 26th, 2010
4:29 pm

If the Braves want to compete next year they cannot touch the bullpen. We see every year why you need a deep bullpen. During the course of a long season, guys are going to tire or get nagging injuries. If the Braves trade Kimbrell, and make Venters the closer, that’s all well and good until Venters gets a sore elbow or pulls a hammy or whatever. Then what? Anyone comfortable with Moylan in that role for an extended period? Dunn? Proctor? Maybe, but we don’t know right now. Much rather have the bullpen depth and use our farm system to get the outfielder we need.

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:29 pm

It’s simple.

We got Tex and went bust. The Rangers got Andrus, Feliz and they are playing in the World Series.

Frank Wren

October 26th, 2010
4:30 pm

My solution to the OF problem is:
1. Jason in RF.
2. Buy Nate a new bat & glove and keep him in CF
3. LF-find an out of work, lifetime .230 hitter & pay him $6-$7 million per year

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:31 pm

nolie , at least you are honest about it :)

Murph

October 26th, 2010
4:31 pm

“Trading one of Kimbrell or Venters leaves them pretty much banking on the one that is left, also. At least with both in the pen, you have a better chance that one of the two will fulfill the hopes and dreams of oour contributors.”

In my opinion that’s playing things too safe. Gotta take some risks if you want the big reward. I’d rather see the Braves offer one of them up if it will get a deal done for a big bat. Maybe they trade Kimbrel and he blows his arm out… maybe they keep him and he blows his arm out… there’s no way to tell.

Shoulda woulda coulda. I’d rather see the Braves do something, anything, than to sit idle while the other teams in the division get better.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
4:32 pm

nolie, couldn’t agree more about a pen. My God, I couldn’t count how many games that pen literally won us this year. They were the main reason, imo, why we even made the playoffs. Our starters, outiside of Hudson, were up and down early and the mid season and two got hurt. The bullpen saved a ton of games.

I’d be ticked if they deal Kimbrel or Venters. You’re just asking for trouble right there with both Wagner and Saito gone now.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:32 pm

Good point, TnBrian.

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
4:32 pm

Coach

Yeah because the other all stars on the Rangers didn’t contribute.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
4:33 pm

“It’s simple.

We got Tex and went bust. The Rangers got Andrus, Feliz and they are playing in the World Series.”

Yeah, NOTHING else has happened since 8/1/07 to cause the Rangers’ rise and the Braves’ demise.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
4:34 pm

“I am gathering from the tenor of your post that you hated it from the beginning?”

Oh yeah. That deal went from being Salty for Tex to Salty and the rest of our farm system for Tex in about 6 weeks. Braves fans wanted to be happy about it and people got very angry with me for saying we’d paid $1.50 for a dollar. All we got out of the Tex deal was a good YouTube video.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:36 pm

nolie, normally I wouldn’t be so adamant about bullpen guys. But a young one-two, left-right combo with stuff that borders on elite, back-end stuff has to be rare. If both pan out, we could be looking at a Wetteland/Rivera type combo for the next 5 years and probably more.

I’m going to need more than Matt Kemp to part with that opportunity.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
4:36 pm

We got Tex and went bust. The Rangers got Andrus, Feliz and they are playing in the World Series – Coach

yeah, Andrus just picked up the slack that Hamilton, Vlad, Cruz, Kinsler, and Young left behind. .643OPS at SS would just make the Braves so much better

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
4:37 pm

OK enough about the Tex trade lets discuss how we totally got hosed on the Dale Murphy trade. Jeff Parrett, Victor Rosario and Tommy Greene……….. Really that’s all. What a Joke!!!! The Texiera trade was nothing compared this hose job WTH was booby thinking? :roll:

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
4:37 pm

We got Tex and went bust. The Rangers got Andrus, Feliz and they are playing in the World Series

Or we could look at it like it really is and say they got Josh Hamilton, then Vlad, oh and they acquired that Cliff Lee guy. Thats why they are in the world series. Sorry but we got enough bullpen help so don’t need Feliz and had we had Andrus all year we probably don’t even make the playoffs because if you really look at the production he gave Texas during the regular season it was nothing much at all.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
4:37 pm

have little thought for evaluating things with hindsight, but I am gathering from the tenor of your post that you hated it from the beginning?

GV would have been the only one on this forum, then, LOL. Are you kidding? Nobody, and I mean nobody, mentioned Feliz in a rant (why would they? He was low-minors kid with a big arm and little command) and I’m about the only guy who whimpered even a little about Andrus. (OK, I think Efrim may have gotten a couple shots in there, too, but there was sure was no uproar.) You had more p***ing about Beau Jones being thrown in at the last minute than you did about the two guys who have actually made it to the bigs.

99% of the folks who moan about that trade here freakin’ LOVED it when it was made. The archives don’t lie.

N8

October 26th, 2010
4:38 pm

I’m sure you’re right guys. I’m guessing the Tigers fans NEVER thought another second about the Smoltz/Alexander trade. Probably didn’t bother them one bit watching Smoltz dominate for 2 decades for another team.

But hey, at least Atlanta and the Tigers both got what they wanted out of those trades. The guy they brought in helped lead them to the playoffs, right?

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
4:38 pm

You could probably get away with packaging Dunn in a deal for hitter. Yeah, you gotta give to receive, but I’d rather not if it means weakening our strongest spot. Even without dealing anybody out of there it might not be as strong without Wagner and a healthy Saito.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:38 pm

Especially, given that neither has really shown anything other than Kimbrell’s control issues (which I think he will overcome with experience) that would indicate they won’t reach their potential.

J.S.

October 26th, 2010
4:38 pm

The Tex trade might not have worked out but at least Tex is productive. It wasn’t as bad as those dumb deals by ‘what’s his name’ to acquire Kawacommie and McLouth.

Steve McP

October 26th, 2010
4:39 pm

Just realised that for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the Tex trade.

Look back and you will see that before that trade we had Scott Thorman at First Base and were still only 3 1/2 games behind in the East – at that point it was surely seen as the Braves moving to make the play offs.

Of course by the time that we were down to starting with Mark Redman, Jeff Bennett and Anthony Lerew (I had to look this up, could not believe some of the names of the 28 people that pitched for the Braves that year – by comparison, in 2010 even in what seemed like a year that we had a lot of pitchers injured we only used 21.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
4:39 pm

I’m still trying to get over Davies for Dotel. I mean, c’mon… Kyle Davies! The guy would have gone 32-1 for the Braves last year.

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:39 pm

P’cola Brave, exactly my point.

Because three years ago I remember one blogger was screaming… Trade for Nelson Cruz. I wonder who he could have been??

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
4:40 pm

NOTHING else has happened since 8/1/07 to cause the Rangers’ rise and the Braves’ demise.

Spot on. Absolutely nothing Murph. The entire episode of events between then and now is meaningless. Josh Hamilton joining the Rangers by a trade of Volquez, no impact. Signing Vlad on the cheap for DH, no impact. Acquiring Cliff Lee for Justin Smoak, no impact. What made the Rangers AL champs is a sub 700OPS short stop and a closer… and a [since traded] catcher with the yips… and a minor league reliever with a 1.5 WHIP… and a young starter with a career 5.39 ERA and 1.5 WHIP over the last three years.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:40 pm

I whined a lil bit about Feliz, I remember how you used to be an Andrus guy…but then you were a KJ guy too. how wrong can one man be????

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
4:40 pm

““I’ll think about next year next year,” Schuerholz said.

And then he chose not to be GM the next year.

“No guarantees in baseball.”

There are not but it’s like poker. If you go all in with 7/2 off suit, you’re not just gambling. You’re gambling recklessly.

I fully expect a division to exist on this trade for the rest of time, but I think that even the staunchest defenders of the deal know that it was at the minimum a bad decision in hindsight. What I loved about the Derrek Lee deal this year is that we paid for him with change we could find behind our couch cushions. Those are my types of trades.

marv kleeman

October 26th, 2010
4:40 pm

Like a “mad” scientist working to find the right formula; I FINALLY found a lineup I’m comfortable with for the 2011 season.

1) Matt Young CF
2) Martin Prado 2B
3) Chipper Jones 3B
4) Jorge Cantu LF
5) Brian McCann C
6) Jason Heyward RF
7) Freddie Freeman / Barbaro Canizares 1B
8) Alex Gonzales ss
9) Starting Pitcher

Starting Pitchers:

1) Tim Hudson
2) Derek Lowe
3) Tommy Hanson
4) Jair Jurrjens
5) Mike Minor / Brandon Beachy

Bench:
David Ross, Omar Infante, Diory Hernandez, Nate McLouth

Optional
(Matt Diaz, Eric Hinske) but only if they agree to sign “team friendly” contracts.

Bullpen:
Kerry Wood / J.J. Putz CLOSER
Craig Kimbrel
Johnny Venters
Mike Dunn
Peter Moylan
Eric O’Flaherty
Cristhian Martinez (Long Relief)

Footnotes**

The “missing” piece to the formula was finding a starting left fielder and cleanup hitter.

When I stumbled upon Jorge Cantu my eyes practically popped out of my head. I could not believe what I was looking at.

During the 2008 and 2009 seasons; Jorge Cantu was so productive he totaled only 8 RBI’s less than the combined totals of Alex Rodriguez for those two seasons.

2008 and 2009
Alex Rodriguez 203 RBI’s

2008 and 2009
Jorge Cantu 195 RBI’s

Until than; I had been tinkering with the likes of Xavier Nady, Bll Hall and Matt Gamel (the latter via trade).

I’m still in favor of signing a veteran closer. I love the kids (Craig Kimbrel, Johnny Venters and Mike Dunn) but what happens the first time Craig Kimbrel gives up a three run homer in the bottom of the ninth inning to Ryan Howard blowing a two run lead.

Does he become “shell shocked” like Joey Devine or does he respond like Billy Wagner or John Smoltz who couldn’t wait to get back out there the next day.

F.W.

October 26th, 2010
4:41 pm

I wonder what Fredi would think about moving Brooks to shortstop?

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:41 pm

I agree about Dunn, but I don’t think he’ll be more than an average lefty specialist. His fastball is extremely straight and his slider is to flat for me. I really didn’t like Bobby using him down the strecth, but EOF was hurt.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
4:41 pm

Excuse me for being a little slow here (I am from TN, so ….), but I’m just realizing why there’s so much bitterness going on with that Tex trade. Because the Rangers are in the World Series now? I’ll go with Jake W. and say they got more than just Andrus and Feliz to get them to the WS. I highly doubt an average hitting/fielding SS and a closer are the main reasons their where they are right now. They got a little more help on the way, I’m sure.

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:42 pm

So, concerning J.D. Drew and Mark Teixeira. The moral of the story is…..

Buy now, pay later.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:43 pm

That Cliff Lee acquistion probably helped, so did Nelson Cruz, Vlad, Hamilton, Molina, etc, etc.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
4:43 pm

But hey, at least Atlanta and the Tigers both got what they wanted out of those trades. The guy they brought in helped lead them to the playoffs, right?

Smoltz was a part of one of the best pitching rotations in history and is widely considered a future hall of famer for his work as starter and closer. When Andrus or Feliz or Salty, or Harrison and whoever the else heck in that trade is looked at in that light then you guys can b!tch. Till then, none of them are currently worth all the second guessing you guys are doing.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
4:43 pm

“Spot on. Absolutely nothing Murph.”

You do realize I was being sarcastic, right? I never type in all caps unless I’m trying to be obnoxious.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

We got Tex and went bust. The Rangers got Andrus, Feliz and they are playing in the World Series

The Rangers got to the post season in the same amount of time after that trade as the Braves. Trade in 2007… Braves and Rangers in the post season in 2010.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

I whined a lil bit about Feliz, I remember how you used to be an Andrus guy…but then you were a KJ guy too. how wrong can one man be????

Anything else you want to rip me with today, LOL? Don’t hold back, now. :-)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

I wonder what Fredi would think about moving Brooks to shortstop? FW

STOP!! you wanna give the guy a stroke???

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

You do realize I was being sarcastic, right?

Right back at you Murph

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

the American way coach

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

I wonder what Fredi would think about moving Brooks to shortstop?

I don’t think he would ever think about that

N8

October 26th, 2010
4:45 pm

“Or we could look at it like it really is and say they got Josh Hamilton, then Vlad, oh and they acquired that Cliff Lee guy.” Jake W

Great points. But I never said those two guys led them to the world series. Just that they are a big part of the team. But with no Cliff Lee, there is no way they get out of the first round.

“Sorry but we got enough bullpen help so don’t need Feliz and had we had Andrus all year we probably don’t even make the playoffs because if you really look at the production he gave Texas during the regular season it was nothing much at all.”

But with Feliz, Wren doesn’t need to sign Wagner, and that money can be spent on an outfielder that would have helped the lineup.

But yes. With Andrus at SS and the addition of Feliz to our already steller bullpen, not much would have changed. Probably actually been a worse team. But it sure would have changed the landscape of the past off-season a tad, don’t you think? Like as in trading Andrus for somebody else, or trading Escobar last winter for an outfielder, knowing Andrus was ready to take over?

Like nolie said, it’s all hypothetical, and regardless of what you might think, had Tex led us to the WS and then bolted as a free agent to the Yankees, I’d still feel the same way.

Maybe I’m simply spoiled by the likes of trades of guys like Melvin Nieves or Tony Tarasco for guys like Grissom and McGriff? But man. No two ways around it, in hindsight that trade sucked ass.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
4:45 pm

“Nobody, and I mean nobody, mentioned Feliz in a rant (why would they? He was low-minors kid with a big arm and little command)”

I rarely mind the A ball arms being anchor pieces in trades since they flame out so much more often than not. I will say that to UGA-Brave’s credit, he repeatedly mentioned on the Falcons board that Feliz’s inclusion was the part that he thought we would wind up regretting. For me, it was always Andrus and Salty with the Beau James think rankling as further proof that we offered to pay even more than sticker price. When I first saw Andrus play, he was already an upper level MLB defensive player and he was what, 17 (?), when I saw him at Myrtle Beach.

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:46 pm

TennesseePaul, Elvis Andrus will be a Ranger for the next decade. Gonzo will be gone after 2011. Insert Braves for Rangers and you can understand the true impact.

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
4:46 pm

Coach – Buy now, pay later

Thats how it is with any trade. Just ask Boston about Hanley. To win now you have to give up talent. The Braves were in a win now. It happens all over baseball.

chris

October 26th, 2010
4:47 pm

trade minor or beachy, dunn, and pastronicky for hunter pence. then trade delgado for ellsbury. and there you go

Bobby's Cox

October 26th, 2010
4:47 pm

Glen W,

For the last time, Rasmus, no matter how talented, has not had a season as good as McLouth or Kemp has had. Both Kemp and McLouth were very good major leaguers before struggling in their 4th or 5th seasons….

McLouth had an OBP of .349 or higher 3 straight seasons before becoming abysmal. He had 4 straight seasons where he OPS’d .810, .853, .788, .810. In 2008, he hit 26 HR, 94 RBI, 23 SB, to go along with 46 doubles.

Kemp had 3 straight seasons where he OPS’d .894, 799, and .842 between 2007-2009. In 2008, his 3rd seasons, he hit 38 doubles, 18 HR, 74 RBI, and stole 35 bases. In 2009, he hit 26 HR, drove in 101 runs, and stole 34 bases. Last year was an aberration, but he still hit 28 HR. You can say well his BB/K ratio is terrible. It always has been, but so what? So is Adam Dunn’s and a lot of other power hitters. You don’t find many young players in the game that hit 30+ HR, drive in 100+ runs, AND steal more than 30+ bases that often for as cheap as Kemp, attitude and defensive lapses aside. And talking about defense, the dude plays great defense but fell into the trap that Andruw Jones, BJ Upton, and so many young players fall into. These players are still young!

Rasmus has only 2 seasons worth of experience, and his best was last year obviously. His 23 HR, 66 RBI, and .859 OPS doesn’t yet match what McLouth and Kemp have done. Could he be better? Absolutely. Could he face plant like McLouth and Kemp did this season? Absolutely!! But, I’d rather have a player like Kemp who even in his worst season so far, still hit a career high in HR with 28, and is still farther along the learning curve that players go through until they’re near 30, than Rasmus.

No matter how greatly talented Rasmus is, he is likely to go through struggles like McLouth, like Kemp, and like many other young players in baseball in this day and age where young players are abundant. This is where the comparisons lie. You can make the argument that you don’t think McLouth or Kemp will snap out of it. The consensus seems to be that McLouth won’t. But Kemp? He still hit 28 bombs last year. You sound like a high avg, OBP, speed kind of guy. So am I, and I hate the Dodgers and defending their players, but Kemp IMO is a better pick up than Rasmus.

So ask yourself, would you rather rely Rasmus, who again is LH, who is likely to go through some struggles in his mid-20’s, on this team with the risk of him struggling as soon as next season in a lefty-heavy lineup? Or would you rather have a guy like Kemp, who has more pop, is RH, is above avg defensively, can steal tons of bases, and can hit in the middle of the lineup that you can get more cheaply? Give me the latter, all day everyday when you consider all of this. If you can’t see the comparisons in these players after this, my third time breaking this down for you, I don’t know what to tell you.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:48 pm

I tried to think of another one or two but that’s all that I could remember off the top of my head Scoots.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
4:49 pm

Elvis Andrus will be a Ranger for the next decade. Gonzo will be gone after 2011

Then bitch about the Gonzo/Yunel deal. Elvis was traded because of Yunel… SS was a position of depth at that time. Elvis was behind Lillbridge who was behind Yunel who was behind Renteria.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
4:50 pm

When I first saw Andrus play, he was already an upper level MLB defensive player and he was what, 17 (?), when I saw him at Myrtle Beach.

See, nolie? I bet GV and I were sitting a couple rows apart, LOL.

Even so, I always throttled down my adulation of the kid by noting that he was a long way from hitting enough. Still is, when it comes right down to it.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
4:50 pm

“It wasn’t as bad as those dumb deals by ‘what’s his name’ to acquire Kawacommie and McLouth.”

I was on the board the day the McLouth deal went down and the praise for it was as universal as any I have ever seen in baseball. All of the sports journalists writing about it called it a masterstroke, the Pirates clubhouse openly revolted, and Braves fans here felt like they’d just won the lottery. It’s like the Falcons 2007 draft in that way in that the day it happened, everyone was lavish with their praise. Only in hindsight does it look like a mistake.

Rob from SC

October 26th, 2010
4:52 pm

This might sound crazy, but give me a second to explain……….

If the Braves sign a power hitting outfield, how about letting Jason Heyward leadoff…..I say this because he should have a .400 or higher OBP, around 100 walks and has speed where even if he doesn’t steal bases, he runs really well………

It also helps Prado because when Heyward is on first, it open the right side hole…

Makes sense to me

Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)

October 26th, 2010
4:52 pm

The Tigers got Doyle Alexander and a playoff appearance. We got a Hall of Fame pitcher and a WS in 1995.

Tigers fans get it, one day the rest of Braves Nation will too.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2010
4:52 pm

Random Thoughts –

Bullpen was our team MVP this year. I would hate to see that weakened.

We won 91 games in spite of numerous unforseen major injuries, poor performance from the OF (not named Heyward), and problems at first. All-in-all a pretty good year. The main thing is STEADY PROGRESS. I’m looking forward to seeing what else FW is able to do to improve this team, as he has every year, within the budget.

We all have wish lists in our life, and that includes for the Braves. But I would be refreshing to hear some realistic discussion of who is actually available, and affordable, and what it would actually cost us.

It does no good to keep obsessing over the loss of Escobar, Kelly Johnson, Frenchy, Andruw, Wainright, or any other prospects traded several years ago. I’ll bet GM’s on the other side would like to have back Smoltz, JJ, Infante, McGriff etc., etc., etc. How many of our “top prospects” and other players NOT turned out as expected for the other team? Answer = A LOT. You make a trade based on what you know and think and need at the time, and what you think it will cost you now and in the future. Players are human, and some trades work out, some don’t. I would say the Braves organization has won more than lost over the past 2 decades.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
4:53 pm

I tried to think of another one or two but that’s all that I could remember off the top of my head Scoots.

I got some Kyle Davies posts lurking in the archives somewhere, too, LOL.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:53 pm

. Elvis was behind Lillbridge

yeah that was unbelievable to me. one of the first big brouhahas I got into here was over Lilliquist and Jones . I said they were likely gonna be busts and 50 people hit me. DOB even opened a blog with how much the Braves and AAA opposing managers thought of him .
Never understood how they thought he was better than Elvis.

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
4:53 pm

N8

No the Tex deal didn’t pan out the way we wanted it to but thats baseball. Take the JJ for Renteria deal. We came out on top there. To get talent you have to spend talent. Would it be nice to have those guys still? Sure. No denying that. But at the time everybody wanted Tex and we needed Tex. All trades are gambles. We won some, we lost some. Thats how the games played.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
4:54 pm

So at what point do you guys get over this trade?

Seriously, the fact of the matter is that if Renteria didn’t get hurt in Tex’s first game and Dotel is able to pitch more than 5 innings for us, we would have made the playoffs.

We traded from strength. We had McCann, Escobar and Teheran. We were willing to part with Feliz because we had Teheran. Thinking we could have got more for these guys is a stretch. We acquired an elite hitter. Seriously, how many players out there are better hitters than Tex? Four maybe five.

Boston has been hot for Salty for years and had a good farm system. Yet, Boston wasn’t willing move Buchholz, Ellsbury or anybody else for him.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
4:55 pm

Come on N8, you’re talking about outfield help and we know we need it but if you think come 2010 we would have still had control of all these prospects I don’t know what to tell you. Someone was going to get traded because we have other needs than just hoarding pitching, shortstop, and catching talent. Our GM made a trade, all from positions of strength in our farm to get us power, something we are still lacking today. He could not predict what would happen to the team after that, that would in turn lead to us trading Tex but I got no problem with him making a trade to clearly improve the team without at the same time depleting our farm. I mean our farm system was still loaded enough with talent after that trade to still be considered one of the top 3 in baseball. Did it work out the best for the braves, no, but it was not some thoughtless trade that left the braves in some horrible position.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 26th, 2010
4:56 pm

10Paul

Its all Yunels fault if the D bag would’ve got his head out of his sphincter for a minute and realized he was acting like a tool. Maybe this conversation would mean nothing. Yunel showed he was more talented than Elvis but his ego and attitude got in the way. The only person I’ll blame is Yunel!

Skeezix

October 26th, 2010
4:56 pm

Three of the worse trades in Braves history:
-The Len Barker trade- where we gave away Brett Butler
-Trading away Jermaine Dye (a blind man could see he was going to be great)
-Trading Crime Dog-one of my favorite Braves ever- away for peanuts (something like $50,000)

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
4:56 pm

LPad: (4:54pm)- that just makes absolutely way to much sense.

jay dubu

October 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

What can the Braves do with KK?

For some of the more asute bloggers, what conclusion have you come to on him? He’s not as bad as his record, but he trows way too many pitches, making it difficult to get through 5 innings successfully.

Can the pitching coach and new manager fix him for the stretch run of his contract? Cox gave up on him last season, so his arm should be well rested for the last of his 3 year contract.

Skeezix

October 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

Don’t miss Yunel. If you can’t play for Bobby Cox and be happy…get outta here!

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

I try not to think or talk about the Tex deal. I was a little baffled that we gave up Andrus, but I remember Bowman articles stating that JS was willing to do so. Feliz took off in the minds of prospect people(the Keith Law, BA, BP, etc.) after the trade. Convenient….

I’ll say this though, I haven’t seen a trade like that since. One team, trading that many prospects from it’s system for one player 18 months from free agency.(although,when was Bedard traded to Seattle?) I think the thing that bothers me more is that we got Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek instead of the Yankees first rounder and a supp. pick. I know we needed to fill a need at first, but boy, the Kotch couldn’t of been worse. Hindsight and all that jazz, f!ck it. The trade happened and the Braves still had a Top 5 farm system two years later. There is more of a value on prospects, young players and service time than there was in the summer of 2007. I truly believe that.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

“Still is, when it comes right down to it.”

He doesn’t have power, but his OBP of .342 was fifth among qualifying shortstops this year (out of 22). Yunel was at .337 for a comparison. He’s not Ramirez or Tulowitzki with the bat, but he’s a lot better than people realize relative to the rest of the choices at the position. He can get on base and then he can do some damage on the base paths. He tied for first among shortstops in terms of steals with 32 and he was fifth in runs with 88. I like slugging shortstops the same as everyone else, but the reality is that there are only a handful per generation. Out of the usual type of all glove no bat shortstops, Elvis is the deluxe version because he has more skills.

ncscoots

October 26th, 2010
4:59 pm

LPad: (4:54pm)- that just makes absolutely way to much sense.

Yeah, who let that guy in here? :-)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
4:59 pm

but it was not some thoughtless trade that left the braves in some horrible position.

exactly. some times you’re the windshield some times you’re the bug. Braves have been the windshield way more often than the other way around.
If there was no chance that the guys you trade would become meaningful players why would a team trade for them, especially a player of Tex caliber?

Rick Pitino

October 26th, 2010
5:00 pm

Is this the Penthouse blog?

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
5:00 pm

Never understood how they thought he was better than Elvis

Yeah.. well they did. It’s splitting hairs though. Brent was closer to the majors, Elvis was more “raw” and further away from the majors and both were behind Yunel no matter what order you put them in at the time.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:01 pm

One thing about the trade I do find interesting about the trade is Texas’ organizational philosophy. Both, Andrus and Feliz was rushed. In fact, I think Feliz would just be breaking in the majors now as a starter if he was still a Brave.

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
5:01 pm

All of the sports journalists writing about it called it a masterstroke, the Pirates clubhouse openly revolted, and Braves fans here felt like they’d just won the lottery.

I can remember scoots not liking it for the Braves…..

and Keith Law…….but you hate him, so what does his opinion matter?

P'cola Brave

October 26th, 2010
5:03 pm

Is Lipka playing any fall ball this year?

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:04 pm

“I think the thing that bothers me more is that we got Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek instead of the Yankees first rounder and a supp. pick.”

I agree with this, but what’s worse for me is that we chose Kotchman over Kendry Morales. We made two more mistakes on top of the original mistake of the first trade. It’s been my experience that this is what happens when a bad mistake is made. Trying to fix it creates that downward spiral. I think we saw this in a different scenario when Brooks Conrad got the yips.

Ah well. Wren and co. have done a remarkable job in rebuilding the organization in a short period. I love where our franchise is right now and that’s all that matters.

Rob from SC

October 26th, 2010
5:05 pm

I think we get Michael Cuddyer

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:05 pm

and he was fifth in runs with 88.

where was he in leadoff hitters? Prado outscored him by 15 runs in fewer PAs and on a less hitting team. His lack of power hurts him at leadoff too, not HR power but 18 XBH is 671 PAs. That is just not acceptable IMO. He also got caught stealing almost a third of the time which is barely breaking even in steals

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
5:06 pm

I think the thing that bothers me more is that we got Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek instead of the Yankees first rounder and a supp. pick

ugh. Teixeira for Kotchman. That, to me, is Wren’s single worst move. I wasn’t impressed with Aybar for Ridgway (terrible waste there as well), or MFIKY for Chavez (complete short-sale on that one)… but Teixeira for Kotchman? The draft picks would have certainly been better. At least when the team traded Saltyips, Minor League Reliever, marginal pitcher, Elvis and Feliz they got immense talent in return plus a stand up lefty reliever many screamed about not resigning.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:06 pm

Efrim – I maybe wrong about this, but since they also signed CC the Braves would have gotten the Yankees 2nd round pick since CC was ranked higher on the Type A free agent list.

Maybe, the real problem with the trade was Wren’s approach to moving Tex though. He narrowed himself to first basemen.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:07 pm

“some times you’re the windshield some times you’re the bug”

Heh. I say that exact same expression all the time.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:07 pm

Teixeira for Kotchman. That, to me, is Wren’s single worst move

true

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:08 pm

We did not choose Kotchman over Morales. The Angels were willing to move Kotchman, but not Morales since they weren’t sure they cold hang on to Tex.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:08 pm

“where was he in leadoff hitters”

I’d actually like to know the answer to that myself, but I don’t know how to sort for that. Anybody?

bvillebaron

October 26th, 2010
5:09 pm

Anyone who would seriously consider trading Kimbrel and Vizcaino for Colby Rasmus is out of their mind.

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
5:09 pm

Heh. I say that exact same expression all the time.

So… you’re the bug this time? :)

jay dubu

October 26th, 2010
5:09 pm

LPAD,

For me the issue is that JS traded for a player that he should have known they had little to no chance of signing long term, unless Tex took a discount offer from the Braves.

Texas traded him, because they were not able to sign him to an extension. I don’t remember the figure, but I don’t recall the Braves’ offer being substantially larger than Texas’ offer.

With all the research done on signability, there was no reason for the snafu.

The Abs Man

October 26th, 2010
5:10 pm

DOB: While reading a current Tom Verducci piece on line, this came back to me…..during series with Giants, Verducci made point Escobar for Alex-G trade was strictly and individually made by Cox.

In your opinion, DOB, does this jibe with your account of how this July 13 trade went down? Thanks.

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
5:10 pm

I maybe wrong about this, but since they also signed CC the Braves would have gotten the Yankees 2nd round pick since CC was ranked higher on the Type A free agent list.

Nope. Tex was ranked higher in Elias.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
5:10 pm

In defense of the Kotchman trade, did anybody really believe he’d drop so quickly like he did? His numbers were pretty good in the big A.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
5:11 pm

maybe I shouldnt have brought up the fact that Andrus isnt that good, I apologize.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:12 pm

The fact that we still had a good farm system after the Tex trade, really shows the position JS had put this team in. I really think that gets lost in this trade. If JS didn’t put that work in, we would be the Pirates right now. Imagine, if we made that trade and didn’t have McCann, Escobar and Teheran.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
5:13 pm

I think the Braves should trade Conrad, Dunn and Kawakami for Rasmus, then ask Freeman to learn to hit righthanded.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:14 pm

it was for one and a half years jay, not half a year. sign-ability was less important, the main idea was that they would have him for two shots at a title , but things did not go that way. Also with his Tech background they likely thought they would have a better shot than Texas had.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
5:15 pm

Oh heck, I forgot to put the smiley on that last one. Folks will think I am serious!

When does the World Serious start? We need to be able to talk about some bad umpiring calls or which hotties were in the stands for the games………

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:15 pm

Using your logic jay dubu then the Rangers should have never traded for Cliff Lee this year. Do you think the Rangers fans want a do over on that one?

Also, JS had every intent of signing Tex. He offered him 18 million a year. Despite what people think, the Braves don’t have a problem spending money. Or signing Boras clients i.e. Greg Maddux, Andruw Jones, Derek Lee. Or in a few years Tommy Hanson.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm

That should be Derek Lowe.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm

might as well just make him a switchy then DS

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm

“We did not choose Kotchman over Morales.”

“6:38pm: The Braves are now taking bids for Teixeira. ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the teams in the mix are the D’Backs, Red Sox, Rays, and Angels. Still, Arizona seems the most logical fit. The Angels won’t trade Casey Kotchman, and the Braves don’t care for Kendry Morales.”

I’ve heard a couple of things that supported this. The Braves wanted Conor Jackson, Justin Smoak or Casey Kotchman. That’s…not an All-Star trio although I know some people here are very high on Smoak.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm

it didnt help that the Braves/Liberty cut payroll right around that time also. Tex was a GT grad I believe, the braves thought he’d love playing in ATL for Bobby and that he’d take a discount. The fact still remains that Tex did his job while he was here

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:18 pm

Efrim – In that case, they should have let Tex walk. But, it would have been taking a chance. CC could have went to Boston or something.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
5:18 pm

I really thought Tex would give serious consideration to signing in ATL, but after that press conference in NYC, it was clear that he had the right agent; and was all about the biggest contract.

Hey, if I am a big league ballplayer, I can’t say I wouldn’t take the cash either. I’d like to think I would consider staying with a team that maybe was my childhood team, but in that position, who knows.

Wait a minute, that’s the competition calling. Gotta run, maybe they are offering me a nicer company truck!!!

:evil:

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
5:19 pm

I’d actually like to know the answer to that myself, but I don’t know how to sort for that.

Looks like in the majors Elvis was tied for fifth in Runs scored from the lead off spot. Martin was 16th from the lead off spot with 54.

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
5:19 pm

Maybe, the real problem with the trade was Wren’s approach to moving Tex though. He narrowed himself to first basemen.

I pray that never happens again. Sign a first baseman off the scrap heap. Now, Braves mgmt. thought Kotchman would be a better fit, but still, unfortunate move.

LPad

October 26th, 2010
5:20 pm

GV – I don’t take much stock in what Jayson Stark says. He may have been right, but I don’t think the Angels would keep a no hit backup in Kotchman, over a potential replacement in Morales.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
5:21 pm

Rumor that has some legs: Jim Presley is among several being considered for Braves hitting coach. Presley was Fredi Gonzalez’s hitting coach at Florida when both were fired along with bench coach Carlos Tosca on June 23.

Fredi already has Tosca as his Braves bench coach, provided Tosca doesn’t get a manager job, and now the other in the trio fired by Marlins might also be on board with Braves. But I think they’re still considering a few guys for the job.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:22 pm

the Braves are more strick about the number of years than the amount-well at least back when they actually had money to spend once in a while- and I think that’s a good approach. Most horrible contracts end up rated that way because of length

Murph

October 26th, 2010
5:23 pm

“Anyone who would seriously consider trading Kimbrel and Vizcaino for Colby Rasmus is out of their mind.”

I must be out of my mind, because I would consider that trade. Let’s see, a guy with 20 something MLB innings and another with zero MLB experience for an outfielder with pop in his bat, speed in his legs, and 2 years of MLB experience under his belt.

I’m not saying they should take it, but I think you’re out of your mind if you DON’T consider that trade, especially given the state of the Braves’ outfield compared to their pitching.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:27 pm

“Jim Presley is among several being considered for Braves hitting coach.”

He was one of our best players in 1990! Note: we were NOT good in 1990.

( But David Justice and Ron Gant were. Charlie Leibrandt, too.)

Joe

October 26th, 2010
5:28 pm

I’d deal Haywood, Freemen, McLoth, Prado for Ryan Brawn. He is better than anybody we have and we can then build around him and Mcannn. We’d still have plenty of pitching and enough offense to beat anybody except the Philies. Haywood cant field and stikes out 2 much for my taste. Freemen is unproven, Prado had a flukey season and Mcloth is just plain crappola.

Lets do this Braves!!!

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2010
5:28 pm

It should be noted though that when normalized runs to at bats (min 250 at bats) are taken into consideration, Martin Prado ranks first in the majors and Elvis ranks 14th

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
5:28 pm

DOB…how do MLB people perceive Presley, is he a good hitting coach

jay dubu

October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm

During the Braves Division run, one of the major reasons they only won 1 World Series, is the fact that they had no closer. Now, they have two young potential closers, and some want to trade one, if not both of them away.

Unless you’re getting a righty hitter that’s going to hit .300+ and belt 30+ homers, I’m for keeping both Venters and Kimbrel.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm

Looks like in the majors Elvis was tied for fifth in Runs scored from the lead off spot. Martin was 16th from the lead off spot with 54

I wonder what the ratio is for games played to runs scored at that position since Martin played fewer games in the leadoff spot since he also spent a good amount of time hitting 2nd and 3rd.

iTiSi

October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm

I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here. Serves the Braves right, as he was treated dirty. Looks like that trade for Texiera really hurt the Braves and all the ones they got have helped them to the WS. More stupidity from Braves management, ESPECIALLY ON ELVIS ANDRUS! How can you be so ignorant? Don’t forget, they got Saltalamacia too from the Braves but then he was traded to Boston. Has to have thumb surgery now, but should help the Red Sox in the next couple of years. Good to see the Yankess and the Phils out of it, and hoping the Rangers take it all.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm

“The fact still remains that Tex did his job while he was here”

We lost a lot of close games in May, June and July because Teixeira was the opposite of clutch that second season. I pointed it out here, several other people picked up on it including DOB, DOB started noting it at the start of his blogs and the Sabernomics guy who is a Braves fan (does he post here?) wound up writing a series of columns about it here:

The links are triggering the moderation warning, but if you google “sabernomics mark teixeira”, three of the first four links will be applicable.

Amusingly, a friend on a different board who is a huge Moneyball guy linked me to this when he was trying to refute my assertion that Tex was not being the stud we needed at the time. I had to walk him back through the process of how I was accidentally the causality of all that data debate.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm

DOB – JIM PRESLEY? good grief, I really hope he can preach what he didnt practice. I dont want someone who posted a .290OBP in 8 seasons teaching our guys how to hit.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:30 pm

Looks like in the majors Elvis was tied for fifth in Runs scored from the lead off spot. Martin was 16th from the lead off spot with 54

I guess I’d want that rated per at bats, the gross totals tell us little. Martin had way fewer at bats there, but leadoff was where he had his best percentage of runs scored per at bat so if he had stayed there all season he might have had even mre than 100 runs scored. % wise he out scored Andrus anyway.32 and 15 is only a good steals performance in fantasy ball where CS costs you nothing..
Thanx for the link though 10P

Murph

October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm

I have now changed my mind completely about who the Braves should pursue this offseason. The player they need is…. drumroll…

Shin Soo Choo out of Cleveland. He hit .300 last season, 22 HR, 90 RBI, 22 SB, and a .401 OBP. That’s the kind of guy the Braves need. And he’d be under team control until 2014.

Make it so, Wren. Go get Shin Soo Choo!

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm

Actually, Braves have already interviewed Presley and are going to interview one or two more guys. So I’m not really expecting an annnouncement till after World Series.

keylargo

October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm

Trading away Jermaine Dye (a blind man could see he was going to be great)

First two years in KC – BA.235 / OBP.277 / SLG.354 / OPS .632

Must have been a blind man who could see into the future – the distant future.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm

I know that Marlins GM/President, whoever the hell he is, is one big douchebag, but do we really want ALL three fired guys on board. ALL three? I’d like to see what Milt Thompson could do here myself.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
5:33 pm

“The fact still remains that Tex did his job while he was here”

We lost a lot of close games in May, June and July because Teixeira was the opposite of clutch that second season.

And he also hasn’t hit to well overall in the postseason these last two years. Imagine if we had sank a lot of money into the guy and he disappeared every October. Maybe things work out for a reason.

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:34 pm

“He may have been right, but I don’t think the Angels would keep a no hit backup in Kotchman”

Kotchman was very popular not just in the clubhouse but with ownership there and he was viewed as the top prospect in the organization for 2004-2005 as well as the #6 overall prospect in baseball . His career minor league OPS is around .900. As someone else here mentioned, Kotchman’s decline was out of nowhere. I can’t help but think the trade combined with his mother’s health crisis impacted him and his power never developed the way that scouts always hope will happen with prospects.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
5:34 pm

I have a Jim Presley card or ten stocked in the attic somewhere. His cards were never listed in any Beckett’s. He wasn’t good, obviously.

Tomas

October 26th, 2010
5:34 pm

Jim Presley never heard of him, but if the Florida hitters are any indication of his work, I think he is pretty good.

Rhino

October 26th, 2010
5:35 pm

If the Braves can get Rasmus without giving up Kimbrel, a starting hitter, or Teheran, I think they have to do it. Maybe a package that includes Delgado and some other pitching prospects.

http://www.rhinorant.com

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:35 pm

oh my, the guy had a career 290 OBP. I hated him. I hope it matters more to him now than it did then

Gone Viral

October 26th, 2010
5:35 pm

“I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here.”

I too am in TN and all I can hear is the whooshing air as Francoeur swings and misses yet again. An employee is not treated dirty when they are given every opportunity to succeed but fail.

monty

October 26th, 2010
5:36 pm

iTiSi

October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
“I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here. Serves the Braves right, as he was treated dirty”

Seriously??

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:39 pm

Choo is a good player no doubt Murph, I’d like to have him even if he is LHed. There is also some question whether he will have to miss MLB time for his military requirement, though.

Tomas

October 26th, 2010
5:39 pm

What about Hal McRae the ex-cardinals hitting coach who did a great job in St Louis and was fired for no apparent reason other than Larussa’s relationship with McGwire.

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
5:40 pm

Tomas they are not. Could you imagine players taking hitting lessons from a guy who posted these numbers in 8 seasons .247/.290/.420?

jay dubu

October 26th, 2010
5:40 pm

LPAD,

Do you think the Rangers traded away nearly as much for Lee as the Braves did for Tex? (Taking into consideration that Tex was for 1.5 year, and Lee was the remainder of 2010)

Did you think that Tex would be the missing piece to the Braves playoff puzzle at the time of the trade? If so, then it was a gamble worth taking from your prospective, but I didn’t think so at the time.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
5:40 pm

I am the new president of the “Bring Shin Soo Choo to Atlanta” fanclub. I’ll be organizing several Shin Soo Choo fan days and will create the “Choo Choo Train”, a cardboard train that roams the walkways in the outfield picking up passengers and dropping them off at their seats.

Shin Soo Choo.. woo woo

Owl Hunter

October 26th, 2010
5:41 pm

unbelievable

Bobby Cox had bad numbers as a player. How did that work out?

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
5:41 pm

it would be like Jeff Francoeur becoming our hitting coach…well, Jeff may actually be a better option

unbelievable

October 26th, 2010
5:41 pm

Owl, Bobby didnt teach players how to hit

Murph

October 26th, 2010
5:42 pm

“There is also some question whether he will have to miss MLB time for his military requirement, though.”

What?!? [in my best Darth Vader voice} NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

junk garrett

October 26th, 2010
5:42 pm

I don’t know about you but I will really miss Chino Cadahia gnawing on sunflower seeds and sucking the bottom out of those Gatoraid containers. He was a true professional in those catagories.

jay dubu

October 26th, 2010
5:43 pm

It’s common knowledge that the Baseball Union pushes players to take the biggest contract. Once a player goes to free agency, $$$ become the driving force.

I’m sure the Braves knew this.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
5:44 pm

A persons ability to actually hit in the major leagues has nothing really to do with whether he can help other players with their hitting. Some folks didn’t have the refined skills, but yet can teach them.

What is Corky Miller doing now??

:lol:

Murph

October 26th, 2010
5:45 pm

“What about Hal McRae…”

I’m connected to Brian McRae on LinkedIn… want me to ask him what his brother is up to?

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:48 pm

Bobby Cox had bad numbers as a player. How did that work out?

that’s why he didn’t become a hitting coach, he became a manager

N8

October 26th, 2010
5:48 pm

My first Mariners game I went to, Jim Presley hit a walk off grand slam. I was 15 years old, the Kingdome was EMPTEEEEE and it was an extra inning game, 1-1 I think. Presley hits a walk off slam in the 10th or 11th inning.

Starting pitcher for the Red Sox that day? Tom Seaver. Saw Oil Can Boyd pitch that series too, but no phenom rookie. Some guy named Clemens.

I don’t actually remember much about his Braves playing days. Wasn’t too much memorable about the team then. But I remember being excited because I had seen that grand slam in person.

Let’s hope if he’s hired that his tenure as a Braves hitting coach is more memorable than it was as a player.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
5:49 pm

Did you think that Tex would be the missing piece to the Braves playoff puzzle at the time of the trade? If so, then it was a gamble worth taking from your prospective, but I didn’t think so at the time.

So are you suggesting that the braves should have just held onto all their prospects at positions that were clearly blocked or not a need for the braves and continued to have holes in their lineup. Given what happened to our pitching rotation the earliest year we could have seriously thought about competing was 2009. Say we do keep all the prospects and suffer the same injuries, great then come end of 2008 we could have traded for a good starting pitcher instead of signing Lowe. We could have traded for Peavy then used all that money to sign who, Ibanez. Who else was on the market at the end of the 2008 season? I guess maybe if people regretting this trade could convince me that we would be better off today than we currently are then I could share in that regret but I don’t see where we would be better off.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:51 pm

A persons ability to actually hit in the major leagues has nothing really to do with whether he can help other players with their hitting DS

I agree for the most part, but if he had little regard for taking a walk and getting on base that might carry over to his teaching. Not saying it will but it might, depends on why his numbers were what they were and if he believes in a different approach now. It may come as a surprise, but I don’t like low OBP numbers ;)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:53 pm

N8 did you see my note a few nights ago about the coffee cups for sale that were modeled after Nikon and Canon 35mm lenses?

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
5:53 pm

@Murph…this from bravesjournal.com

The Indians are rapidly turning into Royals-Ohio, and might be willing to part with Shin-Soo Choo, but if they were, that would be one heck of a bidding war, especially as Choo has three arb years left. Again, if the Braves got involved, the asking price would begin with Julio Teheran.

Owl Hunter

October 26th, 2010
5:54 pm

I can’t believe people think that the only way to be a good hitting coach is to be a good hitter in the majors. Some guys have the mind for hitting, and not the physical tools. I don’t remember Rudy Jaramillo breaking a bunch of hitting records.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:54 pm

I agree, ChooChoo would bring a steep price

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:56 pm

I don’t think anybody is seriously saying that Owl. It would depend more on what he believes than on his physical ability.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
5:56 pm

Yeah Steve, that’s the article that put the idea in my head. Honestly I had never even heard of Choo before reading that. The black hole that is Cleveland.

With the numbers that guy is putting up and putting up consistently, the fact that he’s only 27, and he’s under team control until 2014… man, would be tempting to see what they wanted.

Owl Hunter

October 26th, 2010
5:56 pm

I would not do Teheran for Choo. Ever.

Owl Hunter

October 26th, 2010
5:57 pm

nolie

Mr. Unbelievable said that players shouldn’t take advice from a guy with a bad batting line. That’s what I was talking about.

GTSteve

October 26th, 2010
5:58 pm

It’s hard enough to hit .300 in the Majors 2 years in a row…..he hit exactly .300 2 years in a row….talk about consistency.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:58 pm

it’s the age old potential for proven experience dilemma.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
5:59 pm

I took his comment as tongue in cheek Owl, maybe I was wrong

Owl Hunter

October 26th, 2010
6:01 pm

DBacks just hired Don Baylor.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
6:03 pm

I understand why guys say things like “I would not do Teheran for Choo. Ever.” It’s scary to trade your top prospect, especially ones like Teheran.

Have you ever seen Bill Cosby’s standup movie “Himself”? In it he’s got a story about his son getting in trouble and how he wanted to kill him… wouldn’t bother him because he’d just make another son that looked just like him.

I feel kinda the same about prospects. Sure, a good prospect is hard to come by, but at some point you have to trust in your system and, if need be, part with a good prospect in order to make your team better. Other prospects will come along. The one you traded might do great, might turn into a HOF player, or might turn into a major bust.

If you can trade one prospect, a player who shows signs that he might succeed yet has not proven it, for a player that HAS proven they can succeed at the MLB level… well, sometimes you have to take that chance.

I know nothing about Choo beyond what I see on baseball-reference.com, but I do know that the Braves have giant holes in the OF and a wealth of prospects in the minors. Trading some of them might fill those holes with players who have shown they can perform in the majors.

Hedging bets isn’t always a bad thing.

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:03 pm

” wonder what the ratio is for games played to runs scored at that position since Martin played fewer games in the leadoff spot since he also spent a good amount of time hitting 2nd and 3rd.” Jake W

Prado started 66 games batting leadoff and scored 54 runs (.81 runs per game).

Andrus started 134 games batting leadoff and scored 86 runs (.64 runs per game).

Andrus had 145 hits in those 134 games at leadoff, 58 walks, 164 total bases (180 if you count his +16 in the stolen base category).

Prado had 94 hits in those 54 games, 20 walks and 152 total bases (155 with his +3 in SB category).

So, it’s easy to see that even without the speed of Andrus, Prado’s doubles capability and just better hitting overall, makes him a better candidate for leadoff. Provided there are guys to knock in the runs behind him.

Because, as I’ve said many times this year, a solid argument could have been made for Prado being the best leadoff, 2-hole, and even 3-hole hitter for the Braves this year. Might even have been a decent RBI producing cleanup hitter, had he been given the opportunity.

Simply put, while Heyward got all the raves, ooohs and aaaahs…. Prado was flat out the Braves best hitter last year… when healthy.

Where Prado (or a guy like Infante) should hit in the lineup, should be based on the surrounding cast of characters.

If Wren goes out and gets a legit cleanup hitter? I’d go:

Prado
Chipper
Heyward
“new guy”
Mac
Gonzo
Freeman
Infante (if he’s playing LF or somewhere)

If Wren gets mediocre guys to fill CF and LF? I’d go:

Infante (or new guy)
Chipper
Heyward
Prado
Mac
Gonzo
Freeman
(new guy)

Or the 2nd new guy could be bumped up with Gonzo and Freeman coming down to the 7-8 spots.

In other words, Prado might still be the best table setter we’ve got next year. But if a legit power guy isn’t brought in, he also might be better served hitting those doubles and HR with guys on base. Add to that, depending on who comes in, we might need his RH bat to break up Chipper, Heyward and Mac.

Hard to say at this point.

We could alwasy just slot Tex into the cleanup spot. Might be worth seeing if Cashman is interested Kimbrel, Delgado and Freeman for him, right? :-)

Tomas

October 26th, 2010
6:03 pm

Murph if you can………….

Hal McRae was a decent hitter in his time 290AVG 351OBP 454SLG% in an 18 year career.

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:05 pm

“N8 did you see my note a few nights ago about the coffee cups for sale that were modeled after Nikon and Canon 35mm lenses?” nolie

No I didn’t. That’s kind of cool. Got a link?

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:06 pm

Besides nolie, on these cold ND (about to be winter – cold as can be today), when I’m not hungry enough to eat a whole bowl, I can simply have a cup of sad.

Danga

October 26th, 2010
6:07 pm

I was reading something the other day that said you want your best hitters hitting 1, 2, and 4 because the 3 spot comes up so often 2 outs and no one on. But it went on to say the difference between a fully maximized lineup order and the worst possible one was only about 15 runs over the course of the season.

Mark

October 26th, 2010
6:09 pm

Prior to the trade deadline when the Braves were looking for outfield help, one of the names mentioned was Cody Ross. Why did the team deal for Ankiel instead of Cody Ross? Did the Marlins want too much or did Ankiel grade higher?

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:10 pm

“What about Hal McRae?”

What? Is there some defective phones in Bobby’s old office that need to be thrown against the wall or something?

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
6:10 pm

But it went on to say the difference between a fully maximized lineup order and the worst possible one was only about 15 runs over the course of the season.

Ugh….if Bobby wasn’t such a moron we could’ve had those extra .09 runs per game back.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
6:10 pm

SF claimed him off of waivers

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:12 pm

it was at Shop4tech.com N8. I got one for my galpal who is a photographer. She uses Hasselblads in the shop but shoots a lot of 35MM too with a canon. should look pretty cool sitting among the equipment,

http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Coffee_Cup_Mug/41_543_1717

they were at bit cheaper till yesterday

Owl Hunter

October 26th, 2010
6:14 pm

Cody Ross was unavailable to us due to waivers. SF had a worse record than us at the time.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:14 pm

I got the Canon 24-105 one

DS1

October 26th, 2010
6:15 pm

nolie

I guess the question is this: Was his low OBP because he wasn’t looking to work the count, or because he was so bad, he had to swing at the first pitch close?

Again, there have been some decent hitting coaches who were marginal players, but like you state, it will depend on his approach.

Love me some high OBP.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
6:16 pm

We could alwasy just slot Tex into the cleanup spot. Might be worth seeing if Cashman is interested Kimbrel, Delgado and Freeman for him, right?

Nope, I guess the irony of this all is that while Tex at the time fit the exact description of what we would need in the lineup and what we currently need(power) his numbers in the postseason with the Yanks haven’t been to good at all. He hit .180 last year while slugging .311 and hit .148 this year while slugging .296 and since we don’t have a Yankee like lineup to hide his non production we could be in bad shape if we did give him a big contract.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
6:17 pm

unbelievable: you could make a very long list of mediocre players who were great managers and/or hitting coaches or pitching coaches. And a long list of guys like Ted Williams, arguably the best hitter of all time, who couldn’t teach to players because they didn’t have the patience to deal with guys who weren’t as gifted as they were.

Do you know that Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan, one of the best in the business, wasn’t even a pitcher? How ’bout Leo? Never got out of the minors.

Presley’s Marlins hitters were a pretty impressive lot, and a bunch of them made big strides under him. The guy was there 4-1/2 seasons, he’s not new to this.

By the way, Presley was an All-Star one year with Seattle. The guy averaged about 26 homers and 90 RBI over a three-year span early in his career, back when those were pretty substantial offensive numbers in the mid-80s.

Murph

October 26th, 2010
6:17 pm

Anyone know much about Cory Harrilchak? Looks like he’s doing pretty well in the AFL right now.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:19 pm

I don’t know that answer Ds, though he did have some hitting talent, and of course OBP was not stressed as much back then. It will indeed depend on his approach not his previous ability as a hitter.
The reverse is sometimes true, some gifted hitters do not make good coaches because it all came so easily to them.

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:21 pm

“But it went on to say the difference between a fully maximized lineup order and the worst possible one was only about 15 runs over the course of the season.” Danga

I think in the grand scheme of things, with all of the hitters being fairly equal, that’s probably true. But here’s something that might refute that comment.

In the month of July, Prado had 6 HR and 9 RBI. In June and July combined, he had 9 HR and 17 RBi.

After moving to the 3-hole in August, he had 2 HR and 23 RBI.

One could argue that the lineup could have maximized a bit more by having guys on base for those HR. For example, Chipper had 10 HR and 46 RBI. Where did he hit?

Two ways to solve this. Get another leadoff hitter that gets on as much as Prado and drop him in order. or Make the lineup deep enough so the 7-8 hitters get on base enough to take advandtage of any HR hit by Prado when not leading off the game.

I like Prado in the leadoff role. But the problem last year was that his OPS only trailed Heyward and Mac’s. And nobody on the team had a higher SLG percentage. So one could argue that the lineup was not being maximized with the best slugger at the top of the order (especially with the crap we had batting 7, 8 and 9 in front of him).

Of course, June and July is when this lineup really took off and he was batting leadoff? So what do you do? But I think that’s when you can look at Chipper’s numbers and see that he really took off then, as well has when Heyward moved to the 2-hole.

Anyway you sliced it, the 3 most dangerous hitters in the Braves lineup were batting 1-2-3. which was a good thing.

DS1

October 26th, 2010
6:21 pm

Murph

Good question on Harrilchak. Oft times the AFL is the last step in an invite to spring training. It will be interesting to see what the kid does in the spring.

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2010
6:25 pm

Someone asked about Dan Uggla earlier. So here’s something from Marlins beat writer Joe Capozzi of Palm Beach Post on Twitter:

Will Marlins keep Dan Uggla if no multy-yr deal reached?

team prez David Samson: We’ll cross that bridge when we get 2 it but right now we r stil hopeful.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:25 pm

In general the time that Presley was in Florida they were not as good an OBP team as Atlanta has been

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:28 pm

Thanks for the link nolie. Those are awesome looking. Pretty cool. Might have to buy one for display and one to use.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
6:28 pm

I was just looking through a few Braves stats on Yahoo Sports, and when you try to “Select Player” from the roster, it doesn’t have Chipper or Prado listed. I know they’re hurt, but why wouldn’t you want to look at their stats? Plus Medlen’s listed. And so are Melky and Saito. Just found that a bit odd

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8621;_ylt=ApN5yKsvweiqekuLoekVfEuFCLcF

Murph

October 26th, 2010
6:29 pm

Braves’ AFL Highlights:

Harrilchak – .464 AVG, .531 OBP, 1 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 3 RBI
Young – .452 AVG, .521 OBP, 1 2B, 0 3B, 2 HR, 6 RBI
Pastornicky – .429 AVG, .455 OBP, 1 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 4 RBI

I don’t know what kind of pitching they are facing, but those are some decent numbers to start out the AFL with.

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
6:29 pm

I think the thing I want of a hitting coach is to stress the importance of getting on base. And also, be able to work with young, raw players to develop their hit tool further. Not to say TP didn’t do that, but those are a couple things that come to mind when thinking about hitting coach. To be honest though, I’m just not sure how much of an overall impact they have….

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:30 pm

de nada N8.when I got the ad, I thought of you right after I thought of Sheila.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:32 pm

lots better places for stats than Yahoo jeffrey. baseballreference or ESPN are both way better. In fact when I think Yahoo-which is admittedly not often- baseball does not come to mind at all

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:33 pm

A few people at my work knows Jim Presley in a somewhat personal way. I believe that their uncle/father knows Presley’s family. It’s a pretty cool story and legit too.

Also Buck Showalter is from Pensacola (where I live), FL. PBS who showed the Tenth Inning documentary will be working on a documentary with some local baseball historians on a Baseball In Pensacola documentary that’s slated to come out in June next year.

There’s a baseball field that’s being built in downtown Pensacola that is hoping to be for a team that will become affiliated with a major league team.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
6:35 pm

I check baseball reference a lot. I still like Yahoo though…I like their “Big League Stew” blog.

Don’t tell Tomahawkin to check ESPN though

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:36 pm

hope they get a team Chris, watchin’ minor league is a whole lotta fun, even more so if you are lucky enough to get a team affiliated with your MLB fave. course that ain’t likely to happen with the Braves, but it will still be fun

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:37 pm

some team comparisons are easier at ESPN at least for me. I have no interest in the network at all

Playoffs!!!!

October 26th, 2010
6:40 pm

How about some World Series chatter? Will the Giants pitching be able to cool off the Rangers’ bats? Other than Cliff Lee, the Giants pitching is deeper and better, right?

JasonInFL

October 26th, 2010
6:42 pm

Jim Pressley? Really?

Efrim

October 26th, 2010
6:43 pm

I think Rangers in six, but nothing would surprise me.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:44 pm

no Jim Presley ;)

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:44 pm

nolie

Yea. The president of the local team the Pensacola Pelicans is in talks trying to get them to become affiliated. They currently play their games at a local college field here called UWF. The stadium is set to open in the 2012 season and if it does become affiliated, I’m going every chance I get since it’ll be close to me (well not close close, but well within driving distance). Also the stadium will be built on a waterfront property. Could have our own McCovey Cove >_>

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
6:45 pm

It sounds like Presley will be the new hitting coach. Can’t say I give a crap if it’s Presley, Baylor or my alcoholic brother. Just waiting for that impact bat we acquire.

I shouldn’t diss my big brither that way. He’s a good guy when it boils down to it.

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:46 pm

I’m hopin for the NL team but its kinda hard to imagine that SF pitching will continue to be that dominant

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:47 pm

I’m a pretty good hitter myself. I played in some non affiliated youth baseball leagues when I was younger, but my knees got hurt and I stopped playing. I can hit, I just need a designated runner >_>

I am a switch hitter to boot :)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:48 pm

does your brother stress getting on base and not making outs Brian? If so sign me up

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:48 pm

I’m an NL fan, but I am rooting for the Rangers. One reason is because I’m a big Cliff Lee fan. I felt dirty rooting for him with Phillies, but now I can do it with a clean conscience. The other reason being the Texas Braves are the next best thing to Atlanta being there >_>

nolie

October 26th, 2010
6:49 pm

I was a switcher too

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
6:49 pm

I will say though that Gonzalez seems to be calling the shots as far as new coaches go. That’s two of his former coaches on board. Or one that’s about to be.

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:49 pm

I meant to say *I can still hit* in the latter part of my other post >_>

N8

October 26th, 2010
6:50 pm

“Nope, I guess the irony of this all is that while Tex at the time fit the exact description of what we would need in the lineup and what we currently need(power) his numbers in the postseason with the Yanks haven’t been to good at all.” Jake W

What’s scary about that in general, is that we didn’t need anything in the lineup. Team averaged 4.84 runs per game before Tex was traded for. Team averaged 5.30 per game after. Pretty signifcant. But….

They were allowing 4.50 runs per game before the trade. Then proceeded to give up 4.56 after the trade. Those numbers are skewed a bit with a really good Septebmer. Braves best month in terms of “allowing runs” was September with 103 (3.81 per start). But the damage was already done in August after the trade, when the team gave up 148 runs (5.25).

But the point is that not before, nor after that trade did they need a better bat at 1B to legitimately compete. They needed pitching. JS tried to get it. Couldn’t find, so he took the next best thing.

Ironically, there are those who say that Tex did have his hand in Chipper’s batting title, and certainly he did. But Chipper hit .369 before Tex was traded away and .353 after. It wasn’t like he fell off the planet.

He was walked 31 times in 39 games after the trade, as opposed to 43 walks in 89 games before it. So, quite clearly, Tex scared people a tad more than whoever Bobby batted behind Chipper after the trade (don’t remember).

But with or without Tex, Chipper was pretty locked in that year.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2010
6:50 pm

Nah, he just stresses, nolie.

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:51 pm

nolie

Were you better righty or lefty?

I’m a natural righty, but I hit much better lefty. From the right side, I was good for bunting, getting the runner over and hitting gap hits with few HRs. Lefty I crushed the ball every chance I got that the ball was in my happy zone.

Hitting righty my zone was waist high and hitting lefty my zone was at my ankles (not kidding), I would always golf em out.

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:53 pm

Speaking of ankles, too bad Ankiel might not return, could have had the….

Aniel’s Ankles >_>

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:53 pm

Ankiel’s Ankles even >_>

NEW CARS

October 26th, 2010
6:56 pm

DOB,
You are right in your assessment that a guy doesn’t have to be successful as a hitter and I am not familiar with Presley’s work as a hitting coach. I do remember him being the Mark Reynolds of the mid 80s with a ton of ks and not many walks so that would concern me. You’re right about some of the former stars, but I think you might want to relook at the statement about the Splendid Splinter. His Senator teams improved dramatically at the plate under his tutelage, but the rest of the team suffered, much like when he played.
In the end I’m sure Fredi has a lot better idea of what we need in that position than any of us clowns do.

Jose

October 26th, 2010
6:56 pm

This guy is a well Educate Hitting Coach…
Presley completed his education after starting to play professionally, earning a a master’s degree in educational leadership and a bachelor’s degree in health, leisure and sports from the University of West Florida.

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
6:58 pm

Jose

That’s the place where the Pensacola Pelicans play, UWF.

I’m actually about 10 minutes away from that University.

MikeInFl

October 26th, 2010
6:58 pm

I have one of those too, TnBrian. Fun, isn’t it?

BTW, the JS trade that people should criticize is the one that sent Adam Laroche to Pittsburgh for a sore-armed reliever and a longshot SS prospect.

The miscalculation that Scott Thorman could step in and be an everyday 1b really hurt.

If we pony up the arbitration $$ for Laroche in ‘07, there’s never any need for a Tex trade. We have a solid (if quirky) 1B, and either keep our prospects, or get what we need – pitching – for them.

Bobby's chauffeur

October 26th, 2010
6:58 pm

the FA class looks to be a little bit better.

Bobby Abreu LAA *
Jose Bautista TOR
Carlos Beltran NYM
Milton Bradley SEA
Mike Cameron BOS
Ronny Cedeno PIT
Ryan Church PIT
Jack Cust OAK
David DeJesus KC
Matt Diaz ATL
J.D. Drew BOS
Jeff Francoeur TEX
Jonny Gomes CIN
Gabe Gross OAK
Carlos Guillen DET
Corey Hart MIL
Raul Ibanez PHI
Conor Jackson ARZ
Ryan Ludwick SD
Nate McLouth ATL *
Juan Pierre CWS
Juan Rivera LAA
Cody Ross SF
Grady Sizemore CLE *
Nick Swisher NYY *
Josh Willingham WAS
Now eliminate all scott Boras clients and lets look at what is really available 2012

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:00 pm

yeah the degree in leisure was a toughie too ;)

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:00 pm

Chris, I was a natural RHer and hit better from that side

BravesFanChris26

October 26th, 2010
7:03 pm

Ah cool.

Here’s a funny thing about how I discovered I could switch hit. My coach/manager said I was pressing to much hitting RH and he said he felt that I could probably hit left handed. So he worked with me a few days (yea, days, not weeks >_> ) and I started mashing the balls big time. However, he wanted to see if I could hit LHP hitting lefty and let’s just say, that’s a no go >_>

N8

October 26th, 2010
7:04 pm

“I will say though that Gonzalez seems to be calling the shots as far as new coaches go. That’s two of his former coaches on board. Or one that’s about to be.” TnBrian

I think that’s the only way you can do it as a GM. And if I was hired for a job, but not allowed to bring some of my best people with me, or surround myself with who I wanted, I’m not sure I’d take the job.

The manager is the first to go if things get ugly (unless you’re the Phillies hitting coach). If he isn’t allowed to have “his guys” in place, how can he ever be held accountable by the results?

MIBravesFan

October 26th, 2010
7:04 pm

“Playoffs!!!!

October 26th, 2010
6:40 pm
How about some World Series chatter? Will the Giants pitching be able to cool off the Rangers’ bats? Other than Cliff Lee, the Giants pitching is deeper and better, right?”

If the Giants starters continue to perform at or maybe even close to the level they have, they should be able to contain the Rangers’ bats enough to keep their offense in the games. They certainly seem to have better and deeper pitching, overall. Certainly better than the Yankees had.

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
7:10 pm

McCANN, McLOUTH, LOWE, HUDSON, HEYWARD, ROSS, JONES in the house.
CABRERA, SAITO decisions made.
KAWAKAMI release details to be worked out.
HINSKE, GLAUS, LEE, GONZALEZ, PRADO, INFANTE, ANKIEL, DIAZ, FARNSWORTH, PROCTOR, MOYLAN, O’FLAHERTY, HANSON, MEDLIN, to be or not to be.
JUIRJENS resigned? WAGNER retired?
Lots more decisions to go.

Jake W.

October 26th, 2010
7:11 pm

N8

I guess what I was trying to say is that Thorman wasn’t the answer so first base was a hole, especially for a team that wanted to make it to the playoffs for that two season period of 2007 and 2008. Now though with Freeman coming up it is more apparent now than ever that the other outfield spots that Heyward does not occupy should be where we go to improve our power numbers. Tex has power, but right now first base isn’t seen as much of a hole that it was then.

As you said pitching was our primary weakness but could it be that just one year the braves wanted to see if they could do things the other way and get by with so-so pitching and great hitting? It didn’t work out and Frank Wren made it priority after the 2008 injuries to build the rotation back up and make that the foundation of the team again. I know it wasn’t a gaping hole, first base, but it was a trade that definitely made us better but unfortunately for us it didn’t prove to be a big enough difference maker with the way our pitching was.

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2010
7:11 pm

“I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here. Serves the Braves right, as he was treated dirty”

Yeah he was. If they had loved him they would have benched him in 08.

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
7:13 pm

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
7:14 pm

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
7:15 pm

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
7:16 pm

richbrave

October 26th, 2010
7:16 pm

Playoffs!!!!

October 26th, 2010
7:20 pm

MIBravesFan–

My first impression was that the Rangers would win in 6, but the more I think about it, I think the Giants will prevail on the strength of their pitching.
You know the old baseball axiom-good pitching will always stop good hitting

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:23 pm

there is no always in baseball

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:26 pm

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:27 pm

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2010
7:29 pm

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2010
7:29 pm

there is no always in baseball

Except when Melky comes up

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:29 pm

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:30 pm

nolie

October 26th, 2010
7:30 pm

MIBravesFan

October 26th, 2010
7:33 pm

“Playoffs!!!!

October 26th, 2010
7:20 pm
MIBravesFan–

My first impression was that the Rangers would win in 6, but the more I think about it, I think the Giants will prevail on the strength of their pitching.
You know the old baseball axiom-good pitching will always stop good hitting.”

That’s my thinking, too. It’s going to be a fun and interesting series to watch.

Danga

October 26th, 2010
7:34 pm

I think the Giants have overpitched a bit. Those guys are good, but the aren’t THIS good. Cliff Lee wins twice. Rangers beat up on Sanchez and Colby Lewis pitches a gem in game 7 to make the Rangers WS Champs.