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3,230 comments Add your comment
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2010
1:53 pm
All things considered (age, cost, talent – total package) I take Andrus over EITHER Yunel OR AG.
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
1:54 pm
I’m saying that a team going to the world series doesn’t have to have all-stars at every positioon to get there. – N8
I agree 100%
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2010
1:54 pm
I left out attitude.
Glen W
October 26th, 2010
1:54 pm
He came from the reigning WS champs and helped a team that hadn’t got to the playoffs in 5 years finally get there again.
Yes, his contributions were so valubale that we just had to make sure he is on the team next year.
I agree that a team going to the world series doesn’t have to have a star at every position. But the Braves biggest gap is in offensive production and you don’t solve that by targetting players who had the lowest (or who were among the lowest) at their position.
If the Braves had Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz in the line-up, the could probably play Nate in LF next year and they would be fine.
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2010
1:55 pm
I’m not going to rip Andruw because he was too good for too long.
I have no such compulsion towards Fracoeur however. He is not a moped,roller skates, tennis shoes, or whatever. He’s a piece of junk john boat, with a big hole in the bottom, and an eight horsepower kicker, with a hole in the cylinder, sitting on the bottom of a lake. If someone pulled it up, loaded it on a truck and tried to give it to me for free, I would grab my shotgun and tell them to get the hell off my property before I start blasting.
It’s a long way to spring training and what I want is a big ass moving truck, with instructions to deliver me to first place and the World Series. I may end up with a used four cylinder ford ranger, but right now I want a Peterbilt with the biggest engine they make.
N8
October 26th, 2010
1:58 pm
“This is why, as I stated, I think Infante is probably not going to perform for the next 1-2 years as bad as his career numbers indicate but not as good as only his Braves numbers would indicate. I think something around his 2008 numbers are probably a realistic expectation for 2010-2011.” Shaun
You mean when he went: .301/.344/.425/.768 with 3 HR and 36 RBI in 77 starts? (He went 3 for 18 with 1 triple and 4 RBI in PH duty – bringing his overall numbers down quite a bit).
As opposed to the comment you made at 10:31:
“I don’t think he’s likely, over the next season or two, to be as bad as his career numbers (.274/.319/.395) nor do I think he’s likely to be as good as his Braves numbers (.309/.353/.411/.764).”
I don’t understand. Earlier today you say he won’t match his “Braves numbers”, yet now you say that what he did in 2008 are more likely to be the result. Yet the numbers as a starter in 2008 are better than his overall numbers as a Brave and even if you add in the pinch hitting numbers, it’s such a minimal difference, it’s silly.
How about we just go with what I said earlier. He’s probably going to hit around .300, have an OBP around .350 or so, and an OPS in the neighborhood of .750 to .800?
bravesfanlm
October 26th, 2010
2:01 pm
DOB,
Do you see the braves trading for a guy like Ben Revere? A talented prospect that is currently blocked by veterans.
Glen W
October 26th, 2010
2:02 pm
The Braves need a bopper and they have the chips to go get one. I’m not saying trade the whole farm of arms. But we know a lot more about our prospects right now that we did last year. Getting your prospects past low A gives you a much improved idea of what you have.
Now, go get him… there are many teams that need pitching help, many!
abwright
October 26th, 2010
2:04 pm
I’m in favor of shortening the regular season and expanding the play offs OR of keeping the same season and returning to fewer playoff games (i.e., get rid of the divisions and just have a World Serious).
I doubt the latter is viable!
Why not have a first round of the play offs at a neutral site and run a round robin seeding tournament or a double elimination to filter out the less competitive seeds?
Then, play best of seven AL/NL champs and best of seven WS as we currently have, home field determined by seeding in the reg. season?
I realize that MLB would be moving towards a regular season that is something like the early rounds in a golf tournament (i.e, you play the reg season to “make the cut” then the post-season is a crap shoot).
However, the 5 game division series really fouls up the playoffs. If weak team A gets a few bounces and beats strong team B, then faces middling team C and allows them into the WS, it makes a mockery of the WS.
Jeff R
October 26th, 2010
2:04 pm
Andrus not better than Gonzalez? I think so, at this point in their careers. Would love having Andrus’ glove on the field and his speed in the Braves’ line up.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
2:05 pm
N8, let the Infante thing with Shaun go, will ya? Before I’m forced to compose a post in which I somewhat, semi-agree with him, LOL?
Churchy
October 26th, 2010
2:06 pm
How are we supposed to compare players if we cant use their statistics?
You have to use statistics. You also consider stuff such as: effort, attitude, swing, well hit balls, chasing bad pitches, plate discipline, timely hits, big hits when the team needs it the most, pressure situations, playing hurt, playing sick, apposing team/pitcher, situation stuff, etc…. We’ll be able to see what Andrus can do in the next few weeks.
N8
October 26th, 2010
2:09 pm
“If the Braves had Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz in the line-up, the could probably play Nate in LF next year and they would be fine.” Glen W
Thanks for backing up the point I’ve been making for two days.
That point being that IF Wren gets one big bat for CF and Chipper comes back healthy, Wren can get away with a platoon (less than ideal “fix”) in LF.
It’s that simple. If Wren is going to go sign Cody Ross to play CF? Then he needs to find somebody of about equal value (better than what we’ve had – or better than Jeff/Andruw) for LF.
He can go about two ways (probably more ways than that). He can sign/trade for one really big bat at either position and stick Nate in the other. Or sign two slightly above league average guys for both spots.
Yesterday (and the day before – it’s now 3 days in a row), I posted that in over 1200 plate appearances, ALL of our players that had AB’s while playing LF and CF combined for 21 HR and 131 RBI last year.
If Wren could find two guys capable of hitting 15-20 HR each and knocking in around 75-80 runs each, the production goes up and anything more is bonus.
It would literally be impossible for our LF and CF situation to be as dire as it was last year. If Wren were to sign BOTH Andruw (CF) and Jeff (LF), sadly enough it would still be an upgrade in production at the plate (and better defense).
Combined last year, Jeff and Andruw had 831 PA, 32 HR and 113 RBI.
My point isn’t that Jeff and/or Andruw are the answers we’re looking for out there. It’s that as bad as they both are, they’d still be upgrades over what we had last year. And somehow STILL managed to win 91 games.
I am not endorsing or pining for Wren to “go after” either of them. But I will say, just like Glaus last year, if all other options are exhausted with no trades or signings taking place, if Wren were to choose one of them (or somebody similar to them), to play LF after already filling the CF need????
I’d be alright with that.
If Chipper is healthy, it doesn’t matter if our LF and CF is Nate, Diaz and Ankiel again.
If Chipper’s not healthy? Then I’m not sure there’s anybody beyond signing both Crawford and Werth that’s going to get it done. With 14 million dollars going in Chipper’s bank account, it’s time for him to be the big “free agent” signing this winter and come back strong next year.
But I’m not counting on it.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
2:10 pm
Before I’m forced to compose a post in which I somewhat, semi-agree with him
I’m curious scoots… sounds like you have something better to do. Need any help with that?
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
2:10 pm
Yahoo’s got an article that says the Braves could have interest in Greinke, Fielder (?), Werth, and Kemp
N8
October 26th, 2010
2:11 pm
“N8, let the Infante thing with Shaun go, will ya? Before I’m forced to compose a post in which I somewhat, semi-agree with him, LOL?” scoots
That’s where the problem is. I actually agree with him too. I think his numbers will be close to what they were in 2008. Which is to say that he’ll pretty much do what he’s done since he’s been here.
The problem is that Shaun agrees with me, and just doesn’t realize it.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
2:11 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnEQWyhlq43umdV1QcVIUNo5nYcB?slug=ti-hotstovepreview102510
McFann O O – 6
October 26th, 2010
2:12 pm
Couch Tater—
Haha! That’s cool (no pun intended)! So between your mother and my Grandparents, we’ve 101 years of refrigeration!
Glen W Now, go get him… there are many teams that need pitching help, many!
Yeah, but I thin Frank Wren has a neurotic fear of trading pitchers, especially for big bats.
old1414
October 26th, 2010
2:17 pm
LF trade options:
1)B.J. Upton-might not cost too much. Hit .238 so could buy low. He might be motivated to have big year.
2)Matt Kemp-probably would cost a lot.Big potential. attitude?
3)Josh Willingham- Nationals would ask for a load because of division rival. Injury prone?
4)Colby Rasmus- Best option but would cost the most. I think too much.
5)Juan Rivera- would cost the least.Had an off year. Has good career numbers.He might be ready for a better year
6)David DeJesus-lefty, less power.KC asked for a lot last summer
abwright
October 26th, 2010
2:19 pm
N8 … I don’t think 15-20 HRs is “average” for an out-field player any more, especially playing in the Ted. Players with those numbers are going to start getting more expensive. And 30 HR guys are going to get much more expensive.
Shaun
October 26th, 2010
2:19 pm
N8, his 2008 numbers are probably in line with his actual skills, which are different from his overall numbers with the Braves. That’s what I meant when I said he’s probably not going to be as bad as his overall career numbers but he’s not going to be as good as his overall Braves numbers.
I say around .290/.340/.400. .290/.340 may be slightly optimistic.
Soph
October 26th, 2010
2:21 pm
I have no such compulsion towards Fracoeur however. He is not a moped,roller skates, tennis shoes, or whatever. He’s a piece of junk john boat, with a big hole in the bottom, and an eight horsepower kicker, with a hole in the cylinder, sitting on the bottom of a lake. If someone pulled it up, loaded it on a truck and tried to give it to me for free, I would grab my shotgun and tell them to get the hell off my property before I start blasting.
Mr Polygraph
October 26th, 2010
2:22 pm
So are they hiring trained chimps to write these hot stove articles?
How does Prince Fielder make sense to the Braves? The Braves have made it clear that Freddie Freeman is Heyward 2.0.
So where does Fielder fit in? Gonna plug him in and let him waddle around in left field?
Glen W
October 26th, 2010
2:22 pm
N8 (2:09 pm)
Intelligent response. But there is a big, big, big, big difference between us signing Glaus this past year and us going after a similar option for LF this year. Glaus was signed because we had a legit 1B prospect that was one year away from being ready. Not the case for our outfield…. there is no one.
Thus it makes much more sense to re-balance the roster a little and move some pitching potential for some offensive production. A stopgap does not make sense for our outfield right now.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
2:22 pm
I’m curious scoots… sounds like you have something better to do.
No, I merely fear the two-headed monster of agreeing with Shaun and causing a N8 reply.
But what the hey…Shaun is close to right on Infante, just didn’t delve quite deeply enough. His excellent performance stemmed primarily from an outlier year against RHP. He was pretty much at his norms against LHP, both in his slash and BABIP. But against righties, he was both unconscious AND lucky.
Now, I suppose it’s always possible that he has found a way to increase his BABIP against righties by 60 points and can continue to find holes at a .370 clip, but I have just a tiny little bit of trouble believing it.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
2:23 pm
Please. If a trained chimp wrote an article, it’d look something like
awfeoiawienfuwenlifuawefawEDfshwasfawufawUAWHFAWHFUWAHFIUAWHFI
P'cola Brave
October 26th, 2010
2:27 pm
I would like Dejesus but not for the asking price KC was asking for last summer. I saw somewhere that Rivera is a non-tender candidate. Dejesus is LH but a good bat for the top of the order. Hes got good speed and hits for a good average. Not a big basestealer but I’d take him for leadoff. Find a good RH bat to place in left and let Nate fill in when needed or platoon in LF.
Soph
October 26th, 2010
2:27 pm
Why am I not surprised?
Report: Cliff Lee’s wife harassed by New York Yankees fans
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5729471
DS1
October 26th, 2010
2:27 pm
Honestly, I don’t think Infante is nearly old enough to suffer from a fluctuating BABIP yet. He’s still a young man!
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
2:30 pm
Honestly, I don’t think Infante is nearly old enough to suffer from a fluctuating BABIP yet. He’s still a young man!
The doc says he has a low VORP to counteract it, Wayne. He’s OK.
dpelfrey
October 26th, 2010
2:31 pm
Rasmus will definitely cost a lot. Another name I saw pop up that would be interesting is Gerardo Parra with the D-Backs. Not sure where I read it, but whoever wrote it said the D-Backs might consider dealing him for good young pitching. Don’t known if there’s any truth to that, but the Braves have plenty of young pitching to offer.
I know he’s lefty and doesn’t hit for power, but I remember seeing him when the Braves played them last year and thinking he was going to be a good ballplayer.
Mr Polygraph
October 26th, 2010
2:31 pm
I find it hard to believe that Chipper’s name is even mentioned as “if Chipper is healthy.” Chipper IS NOT going to be healthy all year! The knee was a brand new issue for Chipper, at least brand new since ‘93. Chipper hasn’t been able to stay in the lineup due to issues other than that knee he blew up so just add that to the list of defective parts that will keep Chipper from being a dependable run producer next season.
Chipper has to be considered “gravy”, not the main course. If the Braves depend on Chipper to be a contributor all year and that is their recipe for advancing deep into the post season then it’s surely a recipe for failure.
If your girlfried does the dirty with the milkman 4 out of 5 times when your back is turned, you’re an idiot if you think she is less likely to repeat offend than more likely. Recent Chipper is MORE likely than less likely to puke out on the team. A new defective part and another year older.
Murph
October 26th, 2010
2:32 pm
That Yahoo article is a joke. Fielder? Greinke? Suuuuuure… think they can learn to play the OF? Otherwise they aren’t much use to the 2011 Braves.
This is going to be a long off season. Longer than last year’s. So much to do…
DS1
October 26th, 2010
2:32 pm
scoots
Thanks for clearing that one up. You guys had me worried for a while.
PS I love me some super utility Infante. Better than starter Infante. If we need to use him in some deal to secure more of a slugger, he has got to go. Otherwise, he is a great guy for the super utility job.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
2:34 pm
That Yahoo writer is MFin04, I think……..
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
2:35 pm
Ahhh, Wayne, nothing wrong with Oh-mah, not at all. Love the guy, in his role. I wouldn’t trade him, me, but I can understand why some folks might want to sell high on him, given an opportunity.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
2:36 pm
nolie, you would take Delmon Young but not BJ Upton Efrim
yeah I guess I would. part of that is likely that i live near the Rays and follow them some and like everybody down here I’m about sick and tired of Upton, both on the field and off. I just do not want him as a Brave. the thought on Young was close to a no too, and since I respect your opinion, if you say he’s no improvement I’ll go along with that since I am not all that familiar with the guy and his problems.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
2:36 pm
It’s not like the Yahoo article is completely about the Braves trading for Fielder. It just says he’s available and there’s a lot of places he could end up
P'cola Brave
October 26th, 2010
2:39 pm
Look at Chippers rehab this way. At least now we know hes putting in tons of work this offseason. He may be in the best shape hes been in in awhile come ST.
N8
October 26th, 2010
2:39 pm
Shaun, you know I respect you and you always state your opinions with conviction and have your methods of coming up with them.
I actually agree with you. Omar hitting .290-.300 with an OBP af around .340 or so, is probably in line.
I just happen to believe that he’s more productive when starting. The numbers since he’s been a Brave show that. Some of it could be the hand injury and what not. But all three seasons, his numbers are better when getting regular AB.
Now, that being said, if you think Wren can do better than Omar for LF (hitting wise – Nate is probably better with the glove), I can live with that. But of guys currently on the roster and guys that were on the roster last year, even without the injuries to Prado and Chipper, Omar’s bat should have been in the lineup everyday as it eventually was by default.
Glen W, thanks. No need to get snippy in the off-season, right? LOL!
I actually agree with you to an extent as well. But with the money coming off the books down the road, I’d still rather see Wren do a short-term (cheaper) solution and roll with what we’ve got, for multiple reasons.
1) We need to know what Freeman is. If Freeman shows signs of being our first baseman and a middle of the order bat for years to come? That’s a good thing. That gives us 2 legit power guys that are young and cheap for the middle of the order moving forward.
2) Who knows what the rotation holds after 2011? I hate to move Delgado, Minor or JJJ without knowing for sure what to expect AFTER next year. Lowe could be dealt next winter with a good 2011 campaign. JJJ could certainly be moved if Teheran is ready on opening day 2012. Will Medlen come back strong? What other injuries might occur between now and then.
I believe with subtle fixes in CF and LF, the team will be in as good of a position to legitimately compete moving forward. With 2012 and 2013 being the years where we go back to being one of the elite teams with EXCELLENT young talent on the roster. All of the young guys (Kimbrel, Freeman, Venters, Heyward, Minor, Medlen, Hanson and even guys like Hicks, Teheran and Delgado), will have time under their belt and ready to move on. That along with Hudson, Chipper and Lowe’s contracts coming off the books, Wren will be in a position to make a push at some top tier free agents.
I just hate to see those young guys (Teheran, Delgado, JJJ, Minor, Venters and Kimbrel – and even Freeman), get used as trade bait for one big push next year.
It’s the beginning of the Fredi Gonzalez regime. No more reason to go for broke next year to send Bobby out a winner.
Worst case scenario, Wren could use one of those guys at the deadline to bolster our chances in 2011 if need be. I just hope that if it happens this time around, it’s for a guy like Kemp or Rasmus that is under control for longer than Tex or JD Drew were.
That all being said, as I’ve stated before, as long as Wren makes a move for a guy like that (young, talented, ML ready and under control for a few years), I would be OK with moving a young gun for somebody like that this winter. But I think Wren has shown that with this budget he has very little interest in moving the young talent.
Chipper deserves to go out on his terms. He’s earned that. But that damn contract with the reality of what he’ll provide is one big black cloud hanging over Wren and the budget right now. If that contract wasn’t there, Wren could realistically overpay for a guy like Werth or Crawford and not have it do long-term damage, even if they underachieved. Which of course would allow him to hang onto the young guys.
He’s got tough decisions to make this winter. But at the same time, he’s trying to improve a 91 win team, not a 72 win team like the winter after the 2008 season. So the task at hand isn’t as big. Along with what DOB said (I think DOB stated it a few days back) about it being pretty clear cut where the area of need is on the team. Allowing Wren to completely focus on LF and CF. That alone should make the job easier for him.
Lollygagger
October 26th, 2010
2:41 pm
Why do we need Greinke? Pitching is not what the Braves need this offseason.
P'cola Brave
October 26th, 2010
2:43 pm
Delmon hit .298 with 21 hr and 112 rbi this year. OBP .333 and OPS was .826. This was his best power year but hes always hit for a good average. He use to be an attitude problem but I haven’t heard any problems with him the last two years or so.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
2:43 pm
My Grandparents have a 50 year-old refrigerator.
my mom has a 65 year old son, who unfortunately is rapidly approaching obsolescence
DAP
October 26th, 2010
2:45 pm
i thought the yahoo article was pretty good.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
2:47 pm
I don’t think Infante is as good as his Braves numbers either, but the lil’ bugger hasn’t let me prove it for the last three years
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
2:47 pm
I did too, DAP….it’s just an observer’s look at how 10 free agents could affect 30 teams. If it was titled “The Braves NEED to trade for Greinke and Fielder NOW!!” and authored by .Don, then we could call it stupid.
N8
October 26th, 2010
2:49 pm
Exactly nolie (@ 2:47). At some point, you just have to play the guy until he stops doing what he’s doing.
Fortunately for him (and unfortunately for Chipper), it’s moot point, because I think he’ll get plenty of AB next year moving around the diamond like he always does.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
2:50 pm
I don’t either nolie
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
2:50 pm
Why do we need Greinke? Pitching is not what the Braves need this offseason.
Not always a straight line from A to B. I could envision some scenarios in which a prospect package that was unattractive to a partner with a bat, might go to another team to return ML pieces that would allow the Braves to put together a different package for the bat-partner without subtracting from their strength.
Pick up a Greinke, maybe Hanson becomes expendable. Who knows? Just saying that there’s more than one way to make the pieces fit, doesn’t always have to be completely direct.
Lollygagger
October 26th, 2010
2:53 pm
point taken, scoots. hadn’t thought of Greinke as trade bait tht way.
Mr Polygraph
October 26th, 2010
2:54 pm
I’m not as confident that the “area of need” is going to be effectively addressed. After all…. Wren went into last season knowing he had the same “area of need” and his solution was to break camp with J-Hey (PR coup,hot shot, cant miss, rookie- divert fan attention) and tell the world the Braves would be fine with what they had. They weren’t. They were still short that bat in the outfield. If Wren shops in the bargain bin again this season (no reason to think he won’t) then the results this year can be expected to be similar to the results this year. In fact, may be worse. I’m not sure the Braves can depend on leading the NL in comeback wins every year.
Probably going to take sending JJ or other prospects down the road to bring back affordable production.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
2:59 pm
houldn’t the season pan out first? N8
heck no, If I hafta win the WS with Frenchy I’d just as soon pass thank you. How embarrassing !
Tomas
October 26th, 2010
3:01 pm
Hey just went to the Rays blog to see what they thought about trading BJ Upton.
What to do with Upton? He’ll be getting a raise his off-season and we have more than enough outfield depth (Desmond Jennings, Matt Joyce, Sean Rodriguez, Ben Zobrist), so many people want to see him traded. However, it’s unlikely that we’d get a good deal for him considering how much of his value is tied to his defense, and his swing was finally back on track by the end of the season. Now is the Rays’ last chance to lock Upton up for a below-market-value contract, maybe shooting for a three-year, $15-18M deal. If Upton still doesn’t sign, then I believe we should try to shop him this off-season. The off-season market for centerfielders is shallow, and Upton could be the most enticing player on the market. This could be our best shot to get a good value for Upton, so if a good deal comes along, the Rays should jump on it.
http://www.draysbay.com/2010/10/25/1771059/andrew-friedmans-off-season-to-do-list-creating-the-2011-tampa-bay
I agree with Steve Slowinski who wrote this.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
3:01 pm
Wren went into last season knowing he had the same “area of need” and his solution was to break camp with J-Hey (PR coup,hot shot, cant miss, rookie- divert fan attention) and tell the world the Braves would be fine with what they had
That, and he had little money to do anything significant. You can’t walk into Abercrombie with $5 and expect to buy anything. You gotta shop at Goodwill.
DAP
October 26th, 2010
3:02 pm
mr polygraph his solution was to break camp with J-Hey (PR coup,hot shot, cant miss, rookie- divert fan attention) and tell the world the Braves would be fine with what they had. They weren’t.
in his defense, the j-hey thing worked out pretty good. he didnt see mclouth’s slide coming, and probably thought diaz and melky would perform a bit better. we can bash him on that, but he was right to throw heyward into the outfield mix. i think if mclouth performed reasonably, we arent having the conversation about how bad the outfield was.
Hillbilly
October 26th, 2010
3:02 pm
Hot Damn! A new little Hillbilly on the way next summer.
noleeeee
October 26th, 2010
3:02 pm
Short-sighted at best. Andrus could have netted a greater return all by himself than the one year of Tex and one year of Kotchman/LaRoche than we got out of him.
Feliz too. Even Salty. N8
geeze you have GOT to be kidding. wow I caint believe you said that
N8
October 26th, 2010
3:03 pm
Exactly scoot.
Mr Polygraph, I had a conversation with another blogger about this yesterday (or the day before).
I agree that the comeback wins probably won’t be as occuring this season. But they won’t need to be if the offense isn’t so putrid to begin with. Our LF and CF production were historically bad last year.
I documented that other than Heyward and Prado, no other Braves regular hit over .240 for the month of April. Glaus, Chipper and Mac, combined for 5 HR and 23 RBI in April. Heyward had 6 HR and 19 RBI in April (23 games). We had 3 guys hitting .195 or less in April. We got literally nothing from Escobar for 3 months. Gonzo is not as good as the guy we traded for, and isn’t going to put up the power numbers he did in Toronto. But it is also very unlikely he’ll have a 1st half as bad as Escobar’s was.
Our LF and CF production were so far below “league average” production, that if Wren simply replaces that production with league average guys, the lineup will be deeper and more consistent. Which means, instead of trailing 3-1 in the 6th inning the game might be tied or we (GASP) might actually have a lead. Thus eliminating the need for come from behind wins.
Too many people acting like the poor outfield production hindered this team from doing anything good last year. That poor outfield production DID hinder us from running away with the NL East, and ultimately killed us in the playoffs. But for 2/3 of the year (even with that putrid outfield production), the Braves were one of the, if not THE best teams in the NL.
If you need a ceiling fan in your living room you don’t take out all of the windows to put it in. This is still a good team on the rise. No need to panic if you’re Wren. Besides, part of me believes that Wren thinks some of the problem was with TP’s approach as hitting coach, which is why he removed him from those duties.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:04 pm
Frank’s kinda pushing his luck with me. It’s been two weeks since we were knocked out of the playoffs. What’s the deal, buddy?? Get with the program and get to wheelin and dealin would ya!
Mr Ray J
October 26th, 2010
3:06 pm
A lot of stuff has bee thrown against the wall here this week. To me, it makes the most sense to do whatever is necessary to acquire Rasmus from the Cards. And then, just because I’m a sentimental schmuck, sign Andruw Jones. The line-up then becomes:
1. Prado 2B
2. Heyward RF
3. Chipper 3B
4. Rasmus CF
5. McCann C
6. Andruw/Nate platoon LF
7. Freeman 1B
8. Gonzales SS
If Chipper can’t go, then Infante plays 2B, Prado goes to 3B, Infante leads off, and Prado and Heyward each move up one slot in the order.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
3:06 pm
geeze you have GOT to be kidding. wow I caint believe you said that>
Just a little prospect-hugging, nolie. Three years of distance makes a lot of ex-’s look good, LOL.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
3:07 pm
McEased that one. Maybe McFann-ed it, too, for all I know.
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2010
3:08 pm
Hot Damn! A new little Hillbilly on the way next summer.
Congrats man.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:08 pm
Mr Polygraph
Now, now. Do I sense you need a hug? Don’t go getting all hurt on us. Trust in smilin’ Frank, he will not let you down.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm
Do we really need more Hillbillies??
(congrats!!!)
N8
October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm
“geeze you have GOT to be kidding. wow I caint believe you said that.”
Why? You don’t think that at the time of the trade, JS could have traded Salty to a team looking for a catcher of the future for a young outfielder that could have been under our control for a few years that would be better than Melky?
DOB just stated that if the Cardinals are to move Rasmus, they’d probably start by asking for Kimbrel. A guy with 20.2 IP in the majors under his belt.
You don’t think that if the Braves still had Feliz they couldn’t get a bigger prize than one year of Tex and one year of Kotchman/LaRoche for him?
Probably not as dynamic of a player as Tex is/was. But certainly somebody under control for longer than a year. Add to that, if Feliz was still in the system there would have been ZERO reason to sign Wagner, leaving Wren more money for the outfield bats.
It’s not that complicated nolie. Don’t try to make it out to be something that it wasn’t intended to state.
Hindsight tells us that Salty hasn’t amounted to much. But Tyler Flowers netted us Javier Vazquez (two years of him). You can’t tell me that if JS was simply looking to move a catching prospect for an outfield prospect at that time, it couldn’t have been done.
But to give up Andrus, Salty, Harrison (who cares?) and Feliz for one year and two months of Tex? Only to flip Tex for Kotchman and the LaRoche? Come on man. Hindsight says that was a bad day in Braves history and you know it.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm
I think the days of seeing Heyward at 2 are pretty well toast.
Soph
October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm
Congrats Hillbilly!
noleeeee
October 26th, 2010
3:10 pm
Andrus numbers are awful? Aren’t they about what everyone claims would be great for Nate or, for that matter, any other outfield suggestion so far? LEW
what? 643? no they are more like what we got out of everybody we hated last year. 643? By gawd I sure hope we don’t get any 643 hitters, plus he plays half his games in a great hitters park, which is a pretty good indication that he would hit even less than 643 here. . Except for speed he pretty much brings little to the game. He fits in well there with thay offense behind him, but even so he scoted 14 fewer runs than Playdough did for us in less PAs.. One good postseason does not a good hitter make, ask Lempke. The “greatness” of Elvis Andrus at this point is an urban legend,
noleeeee
October 26th, 2010
3:13 pm
yeah sure N8. whatever you say.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
3:15 pm
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DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:15 pm
The only .643’s this lineup needs are in the 9 slot!
N8
October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm
More killer ripping from the great nolie, with no logic to back it up.
Well done. I’d expect nothing less from you.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm
There you go… It’s either make a picture of the Man In Black, or debate the Teixeira trade and Omar’s role…
DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm
Am I a troubled soul? That post by 10Paul made a lot of sense to me! Agree 100%
noleeeee
October 26th, 2010
3:16 pm
Andrus not better than Gonzalez? I think so, at this point in their careers. Would love having Andrus’ glove on the field and his speed in the Braves’ line up
not this year you wouldn’t have. Gonzalez had 16 runs saved, Andrus had one.
and speed is not a killer. Prado scored more runs in fewer PAs on a weaker offensive team than Andrus did.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
3:18 pm
There you go… It’s either make a picture of the Man In Black, or debate the Teixeira trade and Omar’s role…
Whew. Thank goodness. For a moment, I thought it was a monkey writing a Yahoo baseball article.
DAP
October 26th, 2010
3:19 pm
ata boy, hillbilly.
nice MIB portrait, 10paul.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:20 pm
I’m still ticked off we dealt Denis Menke to the Astros for Sonny Jackson!!! What a rip!
Guys, can we get over the old trades? Does it matter if the Vazquez deal or the Teixeira, or the Wainwright deal were bad deals (or not)???
Ancient history folks. FW is not John Schuerholz.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
3:20 pm
He really TennesseePauled that one
ncscoots
October 26th, 2010
3:21 pm
Hillbilly, how does the scorecard read now, with the new addition? That is, how far along are we on a full lineup, LOL?
DS1
October 26th, 2010
3:22 pm
I looked at 10Paul’s post upside down, and I think it says “redrum”.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
3:23 pm
not this year you wouldn’t have
But nolee, Elvis is in the post season getting a lot of press right now. He is obviously the better player and easily in the running for best lead-off hitter in the majors… And he was all ours at one point. JS squandered him away for nothing more than the best slugging, fielding, switch hitter in the majors at the time. Foolishness.
noleeeee
October 26th, 2010
3:25 pm
you “logic” is so off the mark that it would takes reams of p[rint to debate N8, and unlike you I don’t write comments that long.
Hillbilly
October 26th, 2010
3:25 pm
He really TennesseePauled that one –jeffrey d
You beat me to it. New blog terminology. I believe 10Paul has reached Shaun-induced Statistical Overload. Operating limits exceeded. Shutting down.
NEW CARS
October 26th, 2010
3:25 pm
I still say add Zobrist to the list of possibilities, although the Rays seem to have plenty of pitchers.
CB
October 26th, 2010
3:26 pm
Johnny Cash?
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2010
3:26 pm
It looks better that the chart I tried to post last night, whatever it is.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
3:26 pm
scoots, It’s like that digital art from the mid-90’s. You have to look past it to see it. If you blur your vision just right there-in lies the answer to what exactly the Braves could have gotten had they held on to Feliz, Salty, and Elvis until this off-season.
P'cola Brave
October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm
I read somewhere that the Angels are looking to move Juan Rivera to make room to pursue Crawford and Werth.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm
CB, yes
nolie
October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm
You have to look past it to see it. If you blur your vision just right there-in lies the answer to what exactly the Braves could have gotten had they held on to Feliz, Salty, and Elvis until this off-season. 10P
or we could just ask N8
Hillbilly
October 26th, 2010
3:28 pm
Thanks Bat, Soph, and DAP.
Wayne, there’s always room for more Hillbillies. (Although this will be the last in my household.)
Scoots, Counting the wife and I, we will be able to staff a Major League starting rotation. Although this #5 starter won’t be ready for call-up until late June/early July.
N8
October 26th, 2010
3:30 pm
nolie, I had a response to you that the blog ate, so I’ll repost it:
Answer this question nolie and I’ll let it go.
If the Rangers were to put Feliz on the open market this year, do you think they could get an outfielder from a team that would be a better option than anybody we currently have on the roster, or used last year in LF or CF?
If you’re answer to that question is absolutely not, please explain. If your answer is yes, then my point is valid. Period.
I’ll be patiently waiting for your reply and reasoning.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
3:34 pm
If the Rangers were to put Feliz on the open market this year, do you think they could get an outfielder from a team that would be a better option than anybody we currently have on the roster, or used last year in LF or CF
Sheeesh that’s a terrible premise.
1) Currently on the roster is Jason Heyward. Elvis Andrus would not ever net Jason Heyward.
2) Looking only at LF and CF, the team could trade just about any minor leaguer, hell, call up just about any minor leaguer to get better production than what the team had at those two spots. The team got more from trading HoRam than from LF and CF this year. So the point is moot. Don’t need Elvis for that roll.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
3:39 pm
I understood you to say that any one of those guys would bring more than 1 1/2 years of Tex. That is not what you are saying now. Do I think Feliz would bring more than that amount of a player of Tex quality, no I do not, and I damn sure don’t think Salty or Andru swould even come close. I agree that Feliz would probably bring back a better OFer than we have, but so what. He ain’t here now.
If hindsight were foresight almost any idiot-well maybe not a few of those on here- could be a GM. And many, using hindsight think they should be. That’s not how it works unfortunately.
I have said all along that we would miss Feliz but that’s what happens in trades, you give to get. It was not Tex’s fault (orWren’s really since he looked for pitching first) that what pitching we had took a crap right after he got here.
Of all the guys traded one is now a star and one MIGHT become a star-I doubt star myself-all the rest has been basically worthless.
I agree that they would be worth more now in today’s market, but that is not what I reacted to at least as I read your post I responded to.
N8
October 26th, 2010
3:43 pm
T-Paul, first of all the discussion is about Feliz. NOT Elvis.
Secondly, I’m not looking to replace Heyward. So yes, your testimony is moot.
It’s a simple question. Since the Braves got 1 good year of Tex and 2 good months of LaRoche (Kotchman was as worthless as Thorman was), had they hung on to Feliz (by himself), could they have netted better worth than they did trading all of them for Tex.
By “worth”, that could mean using Feliz in the bullpen and not being so desperate for Wagner, or trading Soriano earlier, or not trading for Soriano at all, or simply trading Feliz at a later date.
By all reports, Feliz was going to be a stud. Which is why Texas wanted him.
Like I said. Simple question. Could the resources have been better spent than one year of Tex and 2 months of LaRoche (which of course didn’t get us in the playoffs in either case).
Keep sidestepping the question guys. I know it puts a dent in your method or ripping on me. But it’s really not that difficult of a question to answer, unless you’re not interested in being wrong.
N8
October 26th, 2010
3:44 pm
Fair enough nolie. Thanks for actually answering the question. That wasn’t that hard was it?
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
3:45 pm
its a pointless argument…the braves needed a 1B and they got basically a full season of Mark Teixeira for Feliz and a bunch of average/below average ball players. Tex gave the braves 101R 174H 37HR 134RBI 1.020OPS in 2007 and .902OPS in 2008. Who knows what Feliz value is right now, Texas isnt going to trade him. It wasnt a good trade because Tex couldnt carry this team by himself and the pitching staff fell apart. Its easy to second guess the deal now
P'cola Brave
October 26th, 2010
3:48 pm
N8
If you don’t trade Feliz then you dont get Tex. Tex was acquired to make a run at the postseason. Unfortunately we had a couple of injuries that took us out of that running. This wasn’t renting a guy for 2 months. It was a year and a half of Tex. We didn’t compete and traded him off. Personally I think we should have got more in return or just not traded him at all. But to get talent you have to move talent and the braves were in a win it now mindsight so you have to move Feliz.