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3,230 comments Add your comment
N8
October 25th, 2010
5:33 pm
scoots, first of all I know you’re messin’ around.
But, last year’s team relied on the “magic” BECAUSE the lineup was so bad. How many games did the Braves’ starting pitchers come out of the game tied or trailing in 3-2, 2-1, 2-0, 1-0 games because there wasn’t any offens.
In Mar/April here are the Braves most frequent starters numbers:
Mac – .234, 2 HR, 8 RBI
Glaus – .194, 2 HR, 9 RBI
Prado – .356, 1 HR, 4 RBI
Yunel – .215, 0 HR, 4 RBI
Chipper – .230, 2 HR, 6 RBI
Melky – .195, 0 HR, 3 RBI
Nate – .175, 2 HR, 4 RBI
Heyward – .240, 6 HR, 19 RBI
So my point remains the same. If our lineup simply has 4-5 guys hitting reasonably well at all times, with our rotation and bullpen, they will win more often than they will lose.
If the lineup would have hit for a damn in innings 1-6 most games, the late inning heroics from guys like Conrad and Hinske would have been completely unecessary.
Those above numbers cover 23 games. Let me emphasize tht the heart of our order (Chipper, Glaus and Mac) combined for 5 HR and 23 RBI in those 23 games. Meanwhile Heyward had 6 HR and 19 RBI on his own.
I actually agree with you. The “magic” is unlikely to be there again. But my point is that it won’t need to be if the team actually provides “league average” production at ever spot.
That lineup had 4 guys hitting .215 or under and 3 guys (including the two main leadoff options that month) hitting under .195.
Only two guys in the lineup hitting over .240.
NO TEAMS are going to succeed with only two guys at a time hitting over .240 for a month at a time.
Until September (12-13), April was the only losing month (9-14). I don’t think it’s coincidence that the Braves went 68-41 from May 1st through August 31st, once the lineup started clicking.
You’re giving too much credit for the handfull of wins that Hinske and Conrad sparked with their stellar bench work, and not ENOUGH credit to what Conrad, Hinske and then finally Infante did as starters while filling in for injured or slumping players.
Can we expect that kind of production from those guys again next year? I think we can. If Hinske is back, why wouldn’t he provide what he’s provided to winning clubs the past few years?
Conrad is what he is. A pretty good, gritty hitter, that has trouble fielding the ball cleanly. And I don’t know what more Infante has to do to prove that he can hit. Dude’s hit .309 in 3 years with the Braves in 991 AB. Time to finally admit the guy can hit. For the record (to dispute Shaun’s theory), his OBP in those 3 seasons is .350. Guy can be a viable leadoff hitter if needed.
Just got to find a way for the whole lineup to not slump at once. I’m hoping that replacing TP has something to do with making that dream a reality. I’m guessing Wren was thinking the same thing or he wouldn’t have made the change. No matter what he says about giving him “more responsibilities.
Gotta go run some errands. Be back on later.
Later.
Vahidawg
October 25th, 2010
5:33 pm
The cardinals still owe us for the hosing they gave us for the Drew/Wainwright trade
richbrave
October 25th, 2010
5:34 pm
BTW isn’t SHEFF a FA? And JOHN SMOLTZ, or did he ultimately retire?
richbrave
October 25th, 2010
5:35 pm
CLAIROL for Men.
ltdbrave
October 25th, 2010
5:35 pm
Forget about trading away our future like Schuerholz did and sign Jayson Werth. Why give up Kimbrel and/or Prado. It isn’t worth it. Tired of giving away our prospects.
Tomas
October 25th, 2010
5:36 pm
Shaun, you’re right………….If one of those teams trade their CF make no mistake about it they will ask for the world…….
Hey it looks like Don Baylor will be the D-backs new hitting coach. http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_16429748
Murph
October 25th, 2010
5:37 pm
I personally only think 1 player on the Braves is untouchable, and that’s JHey. If they can deal anyone else, not make a huge hole, and make the team better in return, then I say do it.
There are no guarantees with these guys. We all knew Andrus was going to be good, but he could have lost his way or gotten hurt. Everyone keeps bringing up Wainwright… look at his numbers in the minors. A lot of 10-10 type seasons, ERA’s in the mid to high 3 range. Not exactly lights-out type numbers.
If they can give up a Delgado or a Kimbrel for someone that’s shown they can perform well at the MLB level, well, I say give ‘em up. Gotta take some chances. Some will work, some won’t. Better than signing Diaz and going into the season with him and McLouth in starting roles.
richbrave
October 25th, 2010
5:37 pm
KIMBREL goes nowhere
richbrave
October 25th, 2010
5:40 pm
MURPH:
No deal
richbrave
October 25th, 2010
5:40 pm
9
nolie
October 25th, 2010
5:41 pm
look at his numbers in the minors. A lot of 10-10 type seasons, ERA’s in the mid to high 3 range. Not exactly lights-out type numbers
thats true murph, there were a few upper level Braves Execs who were kinda worried about Wainwright the last year or two which is why he was traded. as it was it took him several more years to be of all that much value. He has not been a stud for them for 5 yeras like someone earlier said. Course logic makes small dents in emotion so those folks ain’t changing their minds
MikeInFl
October 25th, 2010
5:43 pm
Murph, I’m with you. I love having Kimbrel, but I don’t consider any relief pitcher untouchable. Not when you need 2/3 of an outfield, especially.
I just wonder, if we had a young, under-control CF who had just posted the best OPS of any CF in baseball at age 23, and some team suggested we give him up for a reliever with 20-something major league innings, and a minor league pitcher who was 3rd on their pitching prospect list, would we do it?
Anyway, I doubt Rasmus will be available.
David O'Brien
October 25th, 2010
5:44 pm
richbrave: I didn’t see Secretariat.
nolie
October 25th, 2010
5:45 pm
I doubt Rasmus or Kemp will end up here, most likely not even traded though depending on court case Kemp might be a bit more likely to be moved
Tomas
October 25th, 2010
5:49 pm
Of the 3 stud starters in the minors( Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, and Aroldys Vizcaino) I would be willing to trade the two that are not named Julio Teheran.
Man the Braves have pitching…….A lot
raleighbravefan
October 25th, 2010
5:49 pm
Mitchell – Why all the negativity? Oh, that’s right. It’s YOU! Never mind. How can you say Texas DOESN’T DESERVE IT? HUH?
What a great story. You’ve got the whole Josh Hamilton thing (a Raleigh boy, I might add), and all those former Braves, none of whom left of their own will. And they pretty much killed the “two best” teams in the AL. AND they are owned by Nolan Ryan!!!
Then there’s SF – A National League team, Who saved us from the obnoxiousness and arrogance of the Phillies and their fans ( how sweet was that? ), and a team who is built like and plays like our beloved Braves.
I say “can they both WIN?”. I’m so excited it isn’t the Phillies and Yankees, I can hardly stand it (and LOL on Fox!)
Infante for President
October 25th, 2010
5:52 pm
Speaking of the Rangers… I see Elvis Andrus, and I’m just like– YEAAARRRGHHH! He could’ve been OUR SS!! (Of course, Braves at the time had no reason to suspect that Yunel would go all diva on them).
steve
October 25th, 2010
5:55 pm
All you knuckleheads out there talking about trading Prado,Kimbrell or Venters for Rasmus are nuts, Wainwright for J.Drew ring a bell, we still have not recovered from that, Jurjens is the obvious choice with Boras as his agent, get Kemp and go out and spend some money on a right handed power hitting leftfielder, keep our young pitchers and one of the best hitters in baseball (prado) should never come up in a conversation.
Tomas
October 25th, 2010
5:56 pm
I’m rooting for the Giants, just because I want the national league to win………………I can’t stand all this Yankee fans, Redsox, etc. saying that the NL is no comparison to the all powerful AL. And then they say the AL East is absurd, in inter league play the AL always wins, and the NL almost always lose the all star game, etc….
Go national league shut those arrogant AL fans up.
Murph
October 25th, 2010
6:02 pm
steve, like I said above, look at what Wainwright was doing in the minors when he got traded for JD Drew. He wasn’t nearly the dominant pitcher back then that he turned out to be nor did he show many signs that he was going to turn into a future Cy Young candidate. Even in his last season in AAA he was 10-10 with a 4.40 ERA.
There’s no “recovering” when you trade a guy who is showing that he’s a #4 starter at best and then he puts 2 and 2 together and turns into an ace a few years down the road. Maybe he would have turned into an ace in Atlanta, maybe he would have been another Kyle Davies.
turnin2
October 25th, 2010
6:03 pm
I still can’t believe the Braves aren’t considering Jamie Dismuke from Gwinnett after the success he’s had with our struggling hitters sent down – not to mention he helped Barbaro Canizares win the batting title this year. Let’s not forget he’s been an instrumental part of the Reds organization with their young hitters – pretty convincing arguments to have him step in here. But I guess Fredi wants another ‘buddy’ on the staff
Glen W
October 25th, 2010
6:04 pm
I’d love to see Rasmus added. But I would not like to see Prado traded, even for Rasmus. I knwo that makes no sense on some levels because CF is going to be hardest position for the Braves to solve in the next few years. But Prado is just too valuable to this team. Ulitmate team guy… will play anywhere based upon who else is in the line-up. He’s the heart and soul of the team.
But I agree with DOB (hey, he does have actual sources after all), that unless the Cards are willing to trade Rasmus to the Braves for 2 or 3 young pitchers, Prado or Heyward would have to be in that deal.
Bobby's Cox
October 25th, 2010
6:05 pm
Based on Chipper’s uncertainty, age, and injury history even if he comes back, I don’t think you can trade either Infante or Prado. Those guys have to be locks to be back on the team for next year.
If Chipper surprises us and says he’s retiring, early in the offseason, then could could trade 1 or the other and spend money on 3B.
NEW CARS
October 25th, 2010
6:08 pm
DOB,
Isn’t it amazing that in a span of 5 years or so the baseball commodities has turned on its head. In 2004 or 2005, a guy with Jurrjens numbers, even coming off an injury-plagued year, would bring a 20-25 homer guy. But now, it’s almost like we’ve been transported back to the 1960s where a 260/360/460 line is an allstar and pitchers a dime a dozen. I think we have to realize that we are either going to have to pay out the wazoo for a guy like Rasmus, or we take a flyer on a guy like Nelson Cruz (not him, but someone like who he was 3 years ago, a guy that was never really given a good chance to start and then blossomed). as I said before, my hope is that Wilken Ramirez can be that type of player, but the jury is out on that. One guy that could be reasonable and might be a match for Juurjens would be Ellsbury, but I don’t know that starting pitching is at the top of the list for the Red Sox.
Maybe a guy like Quentin or Delmon Young could be had, but it would probably take JJ and Delgado/Vizcaino at the least to get them. If the player is young enough and we can affordably control them for 3-4 years I think we need to make a move like that. We have some hitters in the system, but most are at the lowest levels of the minors.
Bobby's Cox
October 25th, 2010
6:09 pm
Oh, and NO ON RASMUS. Seems like a mix between Kelly and McLouth in terms of potential and early career success, but really, another lefty? No way.
I’m down like others have posted to trade Jurrjens and another prospect or 2 for Kemp. Think about that: Prado, Kemp, McCann, Heyward Chipper, all in the middle of our lineup….
Glen W
October 25th, 2010
6:12 pm
If you prefer Kemp over Rasmus, I really have to wonder if you know anything about baseball. I mean, really.
Bobby's Cox
October 25th, 2010
6:14 pm
If we can somehow get Kemp, I wouldn’t mind sending McLouth to LA AND paying his salary. But, if we can land Kemp, then it wouldn’t hurt to have McLouth manning LF like it did this past season.
Murph
October 25th, 2010
6:18 pm
Someone in the old blog mentioned Delmon Young… I think I’d maybe take him and his craziness over Kemp. Not as much power but hits for average and has a higher OBP.
I like the idea of getting someone with some fire in his gut. He might have too much fire and not enough brains, but I’d like to see what he could do in Atlanta.
Bobby's Cox
October 25th, 2010
6:22 pm
Really Glen W?????
Matt Kemp had solid OBP’s in 2007, 2008, and 2009. While last year was an aberration in terms of OBP and BA, he still hit 28 HR’s. He’s also a lock to steal 30+ bases a year.
Rasmus, on the other hand is still a progressing player, so there’s more risk in Rasmus than there is Kemp. Kemp has seen more MLB pitching. He’s also still young like Rasmus.
Rasmus bats left-handed, and while the front office claims they wouldn’t be bothered by signing another lefty, I’d bet they’d prefer a right-handed power bat in the OF than a guy still farther behind in development who could fizzle out AND bats LH.
Think about next year’s locks to be in the lineup: Freeman (LH), Heyward (LH), McCann (LH), McLouth (LH), then you want to add Rasmus and possibly give up quite a package to get him? No thanks… I’d take my chances on sending that big a package to LA and get a right handed bat.
zookey
October 25th, 2010
6:23 pm
O’Brien you have really stired this bunch of idiots over nothing….,
David O'Brien
October 25th, 2010
6:25 pm
B.C.: Good point at 6:05 p.m., in regards to Chipper
dogman
October 25th, 2010
6:26 pm
The braves may as well give some more of their young future all star pitchers to the cardinals like they did with Wainwright. If they make any trade I would bet the mortgage they will get burnt again like they did when they gave Texas all those players for a Tex rental and then turned around and gave him away too. Just look at Texas in the world series and that trade has a lot to do with them being there.The braves will be watching the game on tv.
Glen W
October 25th, 2010
6:27 pm
BC, I get that rasmus is LH. But first of all, Rasmus is a legit CF, definesively. And Rasmus offers 2 more years of control… which a big deal given where the Braves are in terms of payroll. And I think Rasmus is a better player right now.
Chuck M.
October 25th, 2010
6:28 pm
I say work on Braun or Hart deal from the Brewers,They need pitching so bad, you might be able to trde jurgins straiht up.
VaBravesFan
October 25th, 2010
6:36 pm
Jurrjens and maybe something for Kemp. Kemp has proved to be a good player did have a down year tho, JJ is proven to be a great starter, had a injury down year. I cant see how the Braves give up more than JJ for em tho. He under contract for only 2011. In my opinion JJ should be enough considering we have what 3 more years of control?
Playoffs!!!!
October 25th, 2010
6:36 pm
Murph—Wainwright was considering the #1 pitching prospect in the Braves organization when he was traded. That’s how badly we wanted J.D.Drew.
Glen W–Kemp over Rasmus for this team (Braves) makes perfect sense.
Murph
October 25th, 2010
6:37 pm
“The braves may as well give some more of their young future all star pitchers to the cardinals like they did with Wainwright.”
You guys are killing me. If the Braves were to make a Wainwright type deal to St Louis then they would be trading Erik Cordier or Todd Redmond, not Teheran or Kimbrel. Wainwright was not putting up great numbers when he got shipped out. He had decent ERA’s, high WHIPS, and good K’s, but he wasn’t exactly looking like the next Randy Johnson. It took him a few years of playing in St. Louis before he put it together.
I guess there is no time limit on traded players and the impact of losing them has on their former team. If so, I wonder if there are guys on the Tiger’s boards still whining about the John Smoltz trade.
sportsmandh
October 25th, 2010
6:38 pm
greetings denizens,
I hate to be a negative Nancy on Colby Rasmus. But consider this, there once was a young centerfielder that hit .276, with a .853 OPS, 26 homers, 94 rbi, and 23 stolen bases. A young man that no one had reason to believe would not be an excellent trade candidate to improve a shoddy outfield. This young man was had in a trade for MUCH less talent than what is being kicked around about Rasmus (granted it is speculation on what it would take in a trade). The young man with above stats, one Nate Mclouth.
Now, I’m not slamming ideas for improving the outfield. But I’m not sold on Rasmus. But the Braves better be 100% SURE that Rasmus is a can’t miss prospect to give up big time talent to get him. I would not do it. My point is that it could back fire BIG time if they give up someone as good as Venters, Kimbrel, Tehran, or even Prado. I would be OUT on any such deal.
AdirondackDave
October 25th, 2010
6:40 pm
I’d like to see Rasmus in a Braves uniform too, but not at the expense of Prado, Kimbrel, or Teheran. If Rasmas can’t be had, there may be other possibilities coming.
Lowe is clearly a valuable asset after his improved season this year and with just 2 years left on his contract. The Yankees need a dependable starter, even if they reel in Lee, which is not a given. Lowe for Swisher may be much more realistiic this year. That would add to the cash available for either Crawford or Werth.
VaBravesFan
October 25th, 2010
6:43 pm
Rasmus doesnt become a Free Agent until 2015. It would be totally different from the Wainwright trade. Were getting a Young player thats played pretty well and has tons of potential and would be here for 4 seasons atleast.
Not a Hall of Fame w/out Dale Murphy
October 25th, 2010
6:44 pm
Dave I remember in an earlier blog you mentioned all players on a team that won the world series get a ring assuming they had decent playing time. Does that mean that Molina will get a ring no matter who wins? He played almost half a year w/ San Fran and I have to assume that qualifies as decent playing time. If that is true has it ever happened before?
Bobby's Booger
October 25th, 2010
6:47 pm
Look for McLouth to return in CF, and some inexpensive, washed-up soul in LF.
Wren will then proclaim Chipper “100% healthy” and say having a healthy Chipper Jones is the same as acquiring an AllStar.
Freeman will hit 9 Hrs, drive in 55 runs, and bat .256 his rookie year.
The Braves will finish second to the Phillies in 2011.
Danga
October 25th, 2010
6:47 pm
He’s also a lock to steal 30+ bases a year.
Then how’d he only steal 19 this season? Btw, he was caught 15 times! Kemp has skills, but he ain’t putting them together real well so far. Colby makes me nervous b/c he only has this one season under his belt, but at this point that is all you can really say about Kemp as well.
Bobby's Booger
October 25th, 2010
6:50 pm
Hang on to those young pitchers Frank !
Dump Lowe’s contract & use that money on a real stud hitter. With 2 years left & coming off a stellar stretch, Lowe should attract interest from some contenders.
VaBravesFan
October 25th, 2010
6:53 pm
sportsmandh
Rasmus is playing pretty well being 22 and 23 years old. McLouth didnt come out until he was 27 big difference. Rasmus is a 5 tool player drafted in the 1st round packed with potential. The kid already has 39 homers under his belt. Showed Major Improvement from his rookie year. He played about the same amount in both seasons.
He improved all his stats. +.025 avg + .054 obp + .091 slg + .145 ops + 9 sb + 7 hr he’s developing into a good player.
njbraves
October 25th, 2010
6:53 pm
As I was reading the blog I knew there would be a hail storm of comments crying about trading young guys. Some of you are so predictable. It doesn’t matter who they trade, people will complain. The ML club needs to improve, and since they don’t have a ton of cash to spend, trading prospects is the way to do it. We’re trying to win the WS, not have the best farm system.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 25th, 2010
6:54 pm
Look for McLouth to return in CF, and some inexpensive, washed-up soul in LF.
Wren will then proclaim Chipper “100% healthy” and say having a healthy Chipper Jones is the same as acquiring an AllStar.
Freeman will hit 9 Hrs, drive in 55 runs, and bat .256 his rookie year.
The Braves will finish second to the Phillies in 2011.
i believe this to be true i think wren needs to find a way to get rid of KK, reliese Diaz, and find a way to give special super powers to nate to play left and hit 25 homers
DS1
October 25th, 2010
6:56 pm
sportsmandh
If you are looking for a 100% guarantee with any player received in a trade, I am afraid you are ultimately going to be disappointed.
Maybe there is some validitiy to the McLouth vs Rasmus comparison, but do you never make a deal because you are afraid of it backfiring.
That’s life. Take your shot. Roll the dice. Make the best deal you can for the best possible player you can afford, and then NEVER look back.
But then again, if folks never looked back, Dave would have a LOT less posts on the MIB/Braves blog, huh. (Len Barker, Dave Justice, JD Drew, Teixeira, and Wainwright comes to mind!)
Murph
October 25th, 2010
6:57 pm
I worry that you guys are right in your predictions for next year, but I do think Wren will make at least one impact move this off season. After the Melky/Nate/Diaz fiasco I think his job would be in jeopardy if he didn’t do something to upgrade the OF. He’s gone on record saying that was his #1 goal this winter, so to not do it would look bad… really, really bad.
jeffrey d
October 25th, 2010
6:59 pm
I mean, what do some of you think they’re going to ask for from the Braves in return for that kind of young player, Jordan Schafer and Mike Dunn?
What if we added Kawakami?
DS1
October 25th, 2010
6:59 pm
If Frank doesn’t do something of significance between now and the first pitch of the World Serious, he should be FIRED immediately!!!
nolie
October 25th, 2010
7:00 pm
Wainwright was considering the #1 pitching prospect in the Braves organization when he was traded
not saying all that much back then. he was the only one with any real promise who was near ready. still took him some years to progress after that and they were disappointed with his last year and a half in the minors. That’s really why they traded him. and don’t forget they got back more than Drew, the other guy had a good year and was instrumental in getting to the playoofs too.
jeffrey d
October 25th, 2010
7:01 pm
The World Serious…now that’s an important World Series
Bat Masterson
October 25th, 2010
7:01 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgwQpxk_FpHQOU9gA3mcs.8RvLYF?slug=sh-molina102410
Not a Hall of Fame w/out Dale Murphy_
An article on Molina. Short answer, yes.
nolie
October 25th, 2010
7:03 pm
if hindsight were foresight, anybody could be a GM even some of the idiots on here
sportsmandh
October 25th, 2010
7:04 pm
VA fan, DS1,
The Cards are not as stupid an organization as the Pirates. They will command value in a trade. That would not be up for dealing Rasmus without getting prime Grade A prospects.
I am not opposed to a trade, just saying they better be very careful. Personally, if it were me, I’d be more inclined to deal Jurrjens for the best outfielder I could get. I love JJ, only reason I’d do it is b/c they already have control of Hansen for several years, Lowe and Huddy locked up for a couple years. So, I’d trade JJ b/c I know they have studs in the pipeline.
I would listen to a deal to give up better prospects for Braun then I would Rasmus. That is what it would take for me to trade one of the big 3 (Tehran, Delgado, Vizcaino). Braun, not Rasmus.
Bobby's chauffeur
October 25th, 2010
7:04 pm
The Braves were truly a dangerous team in May when Troy Glaus was the best hitter in the NL. With him mashing in the middle of the lineup
I agree.. I have been saying all along don’t sell the farm. Don’t hurt the future. 2012 will be our best year losing all of those high dollar contracts. We will be fine in 2011. Mc Louth will be a force in center.. He will work it out. it was a mind thing. He will work his butt off this winter to get it straight. Does anyone think he came to SP and said I really want to suck this year? So would not be concerned about that position. Get the best bat you can for LF without disassembling the starting lineup. go braves…
Danga
October 25th, 2010
7:04 pm
But I’m probly just bitter about Kemp. I wasted a first round draft pick on the guy on my fantasy team. Sigh.
jeffrey d
October 25th, 2010
7:07 pm
Danga – I was one pick away from getting Kemp…lucky me
Not a Hall of Fame w/out Dale Murphy
October 25th, 2010
7:09 pm
Thanks, Bat
benchwarmer
October 25th, 2010
7:11 pm
The way I see the Braves needs combining with their ability to get sutible players by trade or FA, I think getting a terrific hitting coach and working real hard to improve and/or turn around some under performers will be top priority.
ncscoots
October 25th, 2010
7:11 pm
still took him some years to progress after that and they were disappointed with his last year and a half in the minors.
As I remember, he had another growth spurt at the beginning of that period, and there was some worry about his ability to ever get his mechanics in gear, especially if he grew any more. Late growth spurts aren’t especially beneficial to young pitchers.
VaBravesFan
October 25th, 2010
7:12 pm
sportsmandh
Ryan Braun isnt going anywhere he’s the face of the Brewers. There gonna trade Fielder tho.
Bobby’s chauffeur
if McLouth could bounce back to a 250 avg. with around 15 homers with good defense in CF that would be huge. Most likely he will be a starter in CF or LF next season. I dont think there is a chance of trading him. Were better off hoping he bounces back than eating that contract.
DS1
October 25th, 2010
7:13 pm
Hey, maybe that’s why I sucked as a pitching prospect……it was that darned growth spurt in the 8th grade!!
DS1
October 25th, 2010
7:14 pm
Doing my best impression of T’hawkin.
McLouth is going to have a big comeback year in 2011! BANK ON IT!
nolie
October 25th, 2010
7:14 pm
yeah thats what worried me when I scouted you DS
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 25th, 2010
7:14 pm
I worry that you guys are right in your predictions for next year, but I do think Wren will make at least one impact move this off season. After the Melky/Nate/Diaz fiasco I think his job would be in jeopardy if he didn’t do something to upgrade the OF. He’s gone on record saying that was his #1 goal this winter, so to not do it would look bad… really, really bad.
My money is on wren getting a couple of outfielders. 1 of witch is a big enough bat where us fans will be happy about getting him. the other may be a cheeper version maybe aquired thru a trade from someones AAA club. i am not a Wren hater!
Anyone who is paying attention knows that wren got the braves back to becoming a winning ball club from being a sub .500 team for a couple years. he then got our team to become a playoff team. i dont hate him cus he has gotten the braves to become a better team year after year.
Wren has a plan and has had the same plan since he has been here. he came and built up the pitching and the bullpen and he has staggered to contracts so year after year he knows what he will need for the next 2 or so years. before extending hudson wren knew this year he would likely need a 1b and an outfielder or 2. he knows there is always time to tinker with the pen. he knows both his budget and his tallent. other than a mcclouth trade that didnt work out and a chipper jones extention that at the time seemed like a no brainer after hitting .364 and a batting title. and kenshin who i have no excuse for. wren has stuck to a game plan under his budget and has gotten the most out of the braves.
last time i checked the braves were in 1st place 2 months this year and actually went to the playoffs. a far cry from where they were when Wren got the job.
nolie
October 25th, 2010
7:16 pm
growth spurts in an already tall pitcher can cause problems. guys over 6′7″ or so were not in big demand B4 Johnson and a few others became stars. Teams were suspicious of real tall guys and their mechanics for decades.
DS1
October 25th, 2010
7:17 pm
nolie
And you were an old f@rt back then too!!!
ncscoots
October 25th, 2010
7:17 pm
But I’m probly just bitter about Kemp. I wasted a first round draft pick on the guy on my fantasy team. Sigh.
But that’s kinda the whole quandary, isn’t it? The kid was good enough to justify your picking him first (based on your no-doubt excellent analysis of his skillset
), and proceeded to have a year that did not meet that forecast. Is he (or, heck, just about any player off a bad year; Jurrjens, for example) the guy worth a first-round fantasy pick or is he the guy who “wasted” that pick this season? Get that answer right often enough, you could make a good living, LOL.
nolie
October 25th, 2010
7:18 pm
s’true DS. I was born an old f@rt
DS1
October 25th, 2010
7:19 pm
If those tall guys can keep their mechanics together, they can be very formidable on the mound. Hard to pick up the ball with all those dangling arms and legs flying around the place.
Bobby's Cox
October 25th, 2010
7:25 pm
Glen W,
No, Kemp is better right now, and Rasmus doesn’t have the ML service time (i.e. experience) to hint that he can keep up or improve on his pace to become what many think he will become. It’s purely speculation at this point. Think McLouth, or Kelly Johnson & how those players had initial success, then went through a phase in which they struggled in which you think they will never amount to their potential. Then you add that risk of having another left-handed bat in the lineup that you wagered a lot of top prospects or ML talented players that DOB mentioned.
Kemp, despite hitting awful last year in term’s of BA and OBP, still hit 28 HR’s. He is a very good OF’er with a very good arm, even despite his mental lapses on defense last season. Kemp had very solid OBP’s for 3 seasons before last year. He is also under team control until 2013. He’s making the remaining of his 2-year $10.95 mil contract next season before 2 years of arbitration, in which time we will have even more money to sign him. Kemp also has 4 series of postseason experience under his belt, compared to Rasmus who has 1 series (went 3-4 with 3 doubles against Los Angeles).
Not that I’m all into Kemp, but he just makes more sense in my opinion than does Rasmus. So does Hunter Pence and a couple of others….
Efrim
October 25th, 2010
7:26 pm
Seems like a mix between Kelly and McLouth in terms of potential and early career success, but really, another lefty? No way.
Oh boy….. Bobby’s, I enjoy your posts, but then you throw something like this out about Rasmus. I don’t see much McLouth in Colby. Kelly isn’t bad, so I don’t think that’s a bad comp. But Rasmus is a star, imo.
Other than Teheran, I don’t think the Braves have a “prospect” that they can build a trade for Rasmus around. Teams overvalue closers, though. So I do think Kimbrel + change might intrigue the Cards for Rasmus. Honestly though, I don’t see either Kemp or Rasmus coming our way.
Bossman Junior has a better chance….although he isn’t exactly the greatest clubhouse dude.
DS1
October 25th, 2010
7:28 pm
To bad Man-Ram can’t play the outfield. He’s probably in one of those “prove the world wrong” cycles of his………..
DS1
October 25th, 2010
7:30 pm
My money says FW pulls one out of the hat that surprises most of us on the blog.
Who was looking for Jair Jurrjens three years ago?
Playoffs!!!!
October 25th, 2010
7:30 pm
It would be a mistake to trade JJ when his value is at his lowest now. He’ll return to form next year, and …
nolie–the other guy we got was Eli Morrero, a utility infielder, who was around 1 year like Drew. We also gave up Jason Marquis, who a serviceable starter in the Cardinals rotation for 4 years, and Ray King a lefty relief pitcher
Efrim
October 25th, 2010
7:31 pm
Didn’t McLouth have his big year at 26? Is Rasmus even 24?
LTBF
October 25th, 2010
7:33 pm
Good evening all
It appears N8 3:04 post is the only one who agrees with me on Jeff Francoeur. If we can get him cheap I don’t see how he could not help us. He had a season and half of being very good for us. Do you reaaly want to see Nate starting all next season for us? I hope Jeff has a great WS and proves everyone wrong about him.
Soph
October 25th, 2010
7:35 pm
If you prefer Kemp over Rasmus, I really have to wonder if you know anything about baseball. I mean, really.
Snooty much? Good grief.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 25th, 2010
7:35 pm
Im on wrens side. the guy is going to put a team that will make us excited about spring and tho opener! i think he will cut some people comming up in the next couple weeks but it will open the payroll in order to fill our needs… trust me the braves fans will be excited for the season to start
Tomas
October 25th, 2010
7:35 pm
Hey DOB, I’ve been meaning to ask you, has Wren said something about Stephen Marek. He had an unbelievable year in AAA, will he get a shot in ST?
LTBF
October 25th, 2010
7:39 pm
Jeff in LF [he has a great arm] Rasmus in CF,I think we would be ok.
ncscoots
October 25th, 2010
7:40 pm
If you prefer Kemp over Rasmus, I really have to wonder if you know anything about baseball. I mean, really.
Actually, I prefer Kemp over Rasmus, too. For this team, at this point in time. Wonder as you wish.
VaBravesFan
October 25th, 2010
7:43 pm
Efrim
Yes. Comparing McLouth and Rasmus makes no sense. Look at the numbers when Rasmus is 22 and 23. And all his numbers improved in his 2nd season. He had around the same amount of playing time in both seasons. Rasmus is a 5 tool player that has tons of potential and has started his career off in the right direction. McLouth didnt come out til he was 26-27 and was never projected to be anything more than a Average Regular at best.
But I agree with most the Kemp is the better Fit for our team need. But Rasmus would be a huge upgrade too. And would be here longer.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 25th, 2010
7:44 pm
SAY NO TO JEFF!!! i remember being at his last game as a brave in denver… i remember being loud and boo’ng him loud durring the starting lineups… i will never forget how much i wanted him gone at the time and i will never forget how much i loved to see him play badly for the mets… im over that frenchy guy… talk about a dumb trade to trade for a guy who you know isnt going to play well… a good arm? you could get a double A player who will hit with the same avg and throw the ball just as well as jeff… a good arm like that is a dime a dozen esp when young guys are trying to impress scouts…. DONT BRING JF7 Back!!!!
brian
October 25th, 2010
7:47 pm
mlbtraderumors.com has a good run down of LF and CF situations. The more I read that the more I think that Ellsbury is a more reasonable target than Rasmus. I would love Rasmus but he is likely to cost Infante/Prado and Delgado. Ellsbury is under team control for years and could be our leadoff hitter while playing good defense. We still need to get a bat for LF with this deal but I think we could get Ellsbury and still have major trade pieces available if we went for a big bat
JD
October 25th, 2010
7:47 pm
I still think you have to get Chipper to help with the batting this year… I know player/coaches are things of the past but I still think he’d be stand-up as a hitting instructor/coach. Maybe hire Rudy J away from the CWS (isn’t that where he landed?) since he clearly did a great job in Texas while there. One thing’s for sure, we have to pull the trigger on the hitting coach as soon as the Fall Classic is over to get any bang for the buck going into next year….especially if Nate stays.
jeffrey d
October 25th, 2010
7:48 pm
SAY NO TO JEFF!!!
Hey!
JD
October 25th, 2010
7:49 pm
DOB, if you trade Kimbrel and Wags is retired, who closes? Venters?
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 25th, 2010
7:50 pm
SAY NOT TO JEFF F…. SAY YES TO JEFF d!!!
Coach (2011 Fredi G. is a Go)
October 25th, 2010
7:50 pm
Rasmus to the Braves for a package including Prado?
Well gee whiz, why don’t I just trade my left lung for my right one. Talk about a trade accomplishing nothing, which is exactly why it won’t happen.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 25th, 2010
7:50 pm
i mean say “no” to jeff f… say yes to jeff d
Efrim
October 25th, 2010
7:53 pm
BJ Upton? Anyone? Don’t love him, but I could maybe see it. Just not sure what they would want or whether or not Wren would want him in the clubhouse the next two seasons. I think a move to the NL would benefit him.
Tomas
October 25th, 2010
7:54 pm
I actually think Rasmus is gonna be better than Kemp. Defensively Rasmus is awesome, and he is a great hitter, he makes great adjustments and actually hits lefties pretty well.
For the Braves case, even though Rasmus can hit lefties, the lineup will have too many of them and opposing managers just have to bring a lefty reliever and that’s a serious disadvantage to guys that don’t hit lefties well which is pretty much the whole lineup with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. Kemp is a better fit for Atlanta, he has cleanup hitter power and is right handed, plays CF, perfect.
Braves with Kemp
2B Martin Prado
RF Jason Heyward
3B Chipper Jones
CF Matt Kemp
C Brian McCann
SS Alex Gonzalez
1B Freddy Freeman
LF Nate Mclouth/Matt Diaz
Pitcher
vs Braves with Rasmus
2B Martin Prado
RF Jason Heyward
3B Chipper Jones
C Brian McCann
CF Colby Rasmus
SS Alex Gonzalez
1B Freddy Freeman
LF Nate Mclouth/Matt Diaz
Pitcher
I like the first lineup better, much more balanced.
jeffrey d
October 25th, 2010
7:55 pm
Thanks Eric
On a related note, I saw someone earlier say that we needed to add a Bat. I thought “What’s wrong with our Bat? He’s witty and knowledgeable”
Danga
October 25th, 2010
7:56 pm
Bringing back Jeff would be like watching a whole season of Ankiel. I just don’t think I could take it.
Bobby's Cox
October 25th, 2010
7:57 pm
Efrim,
Thanks for the complement man. I enjoy your posts too.
I’m not so sure Rasmus is a guy you build a team around. He’s not superstar material in my opinion. We’ll see, but he’s got a long way to go. Many thought KJ had superstar potential, then he fizzled a bit. McLouth put up superstar stats, then he fizzled. Maybe these two still do as KJ rebounded quite nicely. But, think of recent guys that were superstars early in their careers that teams are building around (Longoria, Braun, Pujols), or guys a tier below.
Then, tell me you still think Rasmus fits that mold. I don’t. He’s a good young player, but for a guy you give up top prospects for, and one of your best hitters the team who is still cheap, possibly your near future closer as well, you better be getting 30HR, 100 RBI a year. Kemp is already there, and he’s stolen more than 30 bases twice. Rasmus hasn’t been there, and based on the struggles some young guys tend to have early in their careers (KJ, McLouth, Jay Bruce, heck even Kemp), do you really want to risk that much young talent & prospects for Rasmus? I don’t. He’s too risky IMO to trade that kind of talent for, then you say he’s LH too? No thanks.
bravesfanlm
October 25th, 2010
7:57 pm
Two trades the braves should make:
1st: Trade Jair Jurrjens and Mike Dunn to the Twins for Delmon Young
2nd: Trade Arodys Vizcaino, Christian Bethancourt, Mycal Jones, Cody Johnson to the Royals for Zack Greinke
Tomas
October 25th, 2010
7:58 pm
Why so much love for Franceour……I actually believe Nate Mclouth is better