operative word being “good,” frank. and we’re really only talking about signing one OF. at least this offseason. nate mclouth will be given every (yawn) opportunity to rebound. (in may, they’ll probably have to start looking for a replacement.) but instead of bringing in more retreads, i think wren will make a trade.
nostalgia mostly I guess Frank. Every year old Braves are mentioned and often they have been so bad that if they were strangers most would laugh at the suggestion. I think we will do better than most any old Brave being mentioned so far, at least I sure hope so
I asked about Uggla yesterday too (my scenario was trading Prado for him). But DOB raised a good point. Last year, the Marlins received heat from MLB for their cheap finances, and with them looking to move into a new stadium, it is very unlikely that they would trade Uggla.
It was also reported that they are trying to sign him to an extension.
Along those same lines though, I wonder if the Braves can trade Prado and a prospect for an outfielder. My reasoning is, the FA market for OF is too expensive, and there are not a lot of good options.
Maybe the FA market for 2B is better (although I havent checked). I know Prado is arguably the team MVP, but maybe the Braves can sign a capable 2B in free agency, to go with the OF they trade for.
Gary O – I don’t understand the logic in trading Prado. It makes no sense to me. If we are going to make a trade, we have an excess of pitching. We don’t have an excess of infielders, especially young, cheap ones who can hit, and with intangibles through the roof. I don’t think Prado is going anywhere.
richbrave – I understand, but what would it cost to replace him, and who is available for what we will pay him? I think his value is still underpriced.
October 27th, 2010
9:08 am
richbrave – I understand, but what would it cost to replace him, and who is available for what we will pay him? I think his value is still underpriced.
Oh, I’m just saying he won’t be cheap anymore. I’m not saying he should or would be moved. Not at all. I think he’s here for one at 2.44 mill. Personally I would feel sick to my stomach if he was traded, no matter who we got.
Replacing Prado’s bat with another 2b could be very expensive. Not many out there with Prado’s offense. Would take someone like Utley or Uggla to do it.
richbrave: PRADO may not be cheap anymore. He’s eligible for ARB 1 and with the year he had, a low-ball figure is sure be overwridden, and substantially raised.
First year arb guys don’t blow the bank. He’ll certainly be paid more than he was, but it isn’t going to be massive like Teixeira, Howard, AJ, Lincecum, et al. Those types of raises come in the last year (I believe only the last year) of arb as that is when they are allowed to compare themselves to free agents or something along those lines.
Hillbilly – YEE HAH! Meant ot congradulate you yesterday. I’m out of that buisiness now (way out) and hoping for some long-overdue grandchildren one day.
Prado prior to getting hurt was leading MLB with the most hits. Let’s think about that for a minute. He is very young and going to be very good. Prado isn’t KJ and he hits the ball hard with addition to having power. This guy is the least of our worries, not trade bait but a definite asset.
Frankie, regarding your 10:02: I’m with you on Prado, and agree he shouldn’t be traded. Huge piece of team, on field and in clubhouse. He and a couple others set the tone for 2010 Braves.
But would disagree with you about him being “very young.” He turns 27 today.
Dont get me wrong. I’m a big Prado fan. Happy Birthday Martin.
But the only reason I wondered about trading Prado, is because although we have excess pitching, a potential trade partner might also want a position player in additon to pitching.
For example, we talked about StL and Rasmus. What if they could use a guy like Prado or Infante?
Couldnt it be an option to trade Prado and prospect(s) for Rasmus, and then sign a 2B in free agency?
Gary – I understand your thinking, but wouldn’t trade Prado unless the deal was really special. I would be more likely to trade Infante than Prado, and I don’t like that idea either.
trading martin prado right now would constitute a major overhaul of this team. martin is the heartbeat of the atlanta braves, and if you are going to make changes to completely change the identity of a very popular and successful team, you might as well trade literally everyone.
there is no reason to blow up this team, and thats exactly what youd be doing by trading prado.
Unless Jurrjens is traded this year(I don’t believe he should especially with his trade value down), I am not overly optimistic with acquiring a formidable RH fixture in the outfield for next season. Nobody out there gets me remotely excited(Burrell, DeJesus, Posednik, etc). Unless we can deal our farm arms and include Infante or somebody that has everyday value we won’t solve our long term LF solution at all. I think JJ if healthy is the guy that we deal after the season going into 2012 and we become a serious WS that year. That aside, if we go the same route next season with over-the-hill short term solution what do you think about Berkman? NT Diaz as he won’t be needed and maybe sign Helms on the cheap to help out the bench and infield. I know the Big Puma hasn’t played much outfield but how much worse could he be than Melk-rat, Diaz or GA for that matter. I really think this guy has at least one more really productive season offensively. Didn’t really do much with NY but did rip a HR and 2B in a game against the Twins I believe. Being a switch hitter will help at 1st when FF needs to sit at times against the southpaws. Gives you some long ball which we desperately need as well. IMO, this guy may hit .275 with 25 HRs next season with somebody. Wouldn’t really trust him after next season but I would roll the dice with him next year if he somewhat affordable.
Braves special assistant Jim Fregosi to receive lifetime achievement award in scouting at Professional Baseball Scouts Foundation banquet on Jan. 15 in L.A.
fankie wren I know the Big Puma hasn’t played much outfield but how much worse could he be than
actually, he has played alot of outfield, just none in the last several years. i dont think he is physically bale to do it anymore, honestly. if we needed a first baseman, berkman would be one of my first choices, but he just doesnt fit the braves, im afraid.
magglio ordonez is the perfect target for this offseason. he is actually an outfielder, and has great offensive skills. hits for average, hits for power, doesnt K very much…perfect.
I like Mags and he can hit. If Berkman is healthy he is more versatile than Ordonez. Don’t count on the power factor from Ordonez. Last 3 years, 42 HR’s in over 1500 ab’s.
The goal of trading Prado is so the Braves can constantly maintain a team age of around 22 to 24. Why? Just for sh!ts and giggles… plus it helps spike interest among fantasy leaguers and arm chair GMs.
Atlanta is a big enough market that it doesn’t have to trade away a good player when they become “expensive.” The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers.
You do not weaken your team to strengthen it. Just isn’t the it’s done and makes zero sense.
Wren isn’t going to trade starting pitching from our current staff and he isn’t going o trade a .315, 15 HR, 75 RBI lead off, second or third hitting 2B, 3B, 1B, Lfer.- which is exactly what Prado is. The only way they go out and get another starting middle infielder is if they decide Martin is the way to go for LF.
What will happen here y’all is that Wren will try to find (and I bet he succeeds) a young, up and coming outfielder with several controllable years and he’ll trade a gun or two or three from the minor league syste,
Any other course of action makes – like I said – no sense at all.
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
It depends on who you can get and who you got. Are you better with Rasmus in center and Infante at second than you would be with Prado at second and someone else in center? It also depends on who would play left and who would be the super utility guy. No discussion of every variation of who you got or who you can get would be unfortunate, and is the kind of behavior that causes folks to lose jobs.
I love how people think that we should follow the managemant style of the Pirates and Marlins in order to contend. Let’s get a bunch of 24 year olds, and no veteran leadership. We’ll get in as a wild card once or twice and lose horribly every other year. Trade Prado? Garbage! Go home! Sorry to be so harsh, but I just can’t believe some of this trash.
I understand what you’re saying, but trading your MVP is never a good option for a contending team. The only way it works is if someone offers us a Tex-like deal, which won’t happen. Prado’s worth goes beyond numbers (which were good anyway), and trading him weakens the team.
The Braves have so much good, young pitching in the minors and almsot every team in MLB covets them. They have more than enough to make an excellent trade and to still kep Teheran and Delgado. Bank on it.
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
It depends on who you can get and who you got. Are you better with Rasmus in center and Infante at second than you would be with Prado at second and someone else in center
Berkman hasn’t played the outfield for the last several years but has played a lot in his career. Guy made a mint and had a huge contract in Houston and motivation probably wasn’t great. Who knows, maybe Fat Puma gets in shape this offseason as he will recognize the need to keep playing major league ball. I would take him short term over Ordonez who will be 37 yrs old. Not saying he is the answer but should be looked at if trade doesn’t bring in quality LF. Guy is a professional hitter.
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
It depends on who you can get and who you got. Are you better with Rasmus in center and Infante at second than you would be with Prado at second and someone else in center
Yeash LEW, I agree. Just trying to see what specifics BRAVEHEART was offering by his statement.
Shouldn’t assume things. Sorry BRAVEHEART. What did you mean by your statement, “The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers.”
I would definitely try out Berkman if he’s affordable and healthy. I agree that he’s not the answer, but he’s an upgrade in LF. I’d try other deals first, but I’d take Berkman over Melky/ Diaz/ Hinske platoons any day.
If you are going to consider trading JJ, I think his value should be high enough to net a good major league player, despite having a down year last year.
Remember back when Delmon Young was traded for Matt Garza? Yeah Garza throws a little harder, but JJ is the better pitcher.
Yeash LEW, I agree. Just trying to see what specifics BRAVEHEART was offering by his statement. Shouldn’t assume things. Sorry BRAVEHEART. What did you mean by your statement, “The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers.”
Huh? That last quote you cited was from 10Paul, not me.
For real! I don’t know where people get these ideas. I don’t play fantasy baseball or many video gmaes. Maybe that has something to do with it. The best way to evaluate talent is to WATCH THEM PLAY!
I wouldn’t count on ANYTHING from Ordonez, save a batting average of somewhere near .300. Here’s his line for the last two years: .307/.377/.447. Much better than what we’ve had in LF? Absolutely. But keep in mind he played an average of only 108 games the last two years and lasst year he played 13 of his 84 games as a DH. The man was a terrific RH hitter. But he’s 36 years old. You can’t count on him giving you full-time OF production. And what LH hitter would you platoon with him in left field? Hinske? Seems like quite a defensive sacrifice…
Oh, and I forgot to mention it before, but, congrats Hillbilly. My wife and I just had a little one, she is 3 months old now. Cant wait for you to experience it again or all for the first time.
we should stop trding our “top” prospectsfor players. We have different degrees of talent, why does it always have to be top talent? We are the only team in baseball that does this. Wren is a idiot. Look at all the talent that has already been traded. I would liked to have that talent back. The trades were all a bust.
I promise you that we are not the only team that trades top prospects. Ever heard of the Yankees?In fact we’ve rejected trades for Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, and many others.
Gotta trade top talent to get top talent… what other option does the team have? Trade mediocre players for mediocre players? That won’t fix the problem. Sign mediocre talent because the team can’t afford top talent? That won’t fix the problem either.
We have something that other teams want, they have something we want. Each wants to screw the other and get what they want for less. Hopefully Wren comes out of the fray smiling instead of licking his wounds.
frankie wren Don’t count on the power factor from Ordonez. Last 3 years, 42 HR’s in over 1500 ab’s.
there is much more to hitting for power than homeruns. i like you look at total extra base hits and slg%.
2008, 54 XBH, .494 slg%, 2009 slg% was way down to .428, only 35 XBH (a bad year power wise, still a decent year overall), and in 2010, 30 XBH in about half a season, with a .474 slg%. he is perfect.
DAP- again I agree he is a good hitter. Not perfect though(neither is Berkman). Guy is going to be 37 by the time ST rolls around and he obviously is injury prone at this stage. Pretty big gamble he will give you those numbers. If healthy-maybe but rolling the dice here. Wouldn’t categorize him as perfect situation by any means.
As I said before, Heyward, Hanson, McCann, Prado and Teheran should be the only untouchables in the organization. What Wren has to see is which of the other assets will bring the most in return. The only way Freeman goes is if we’re getting a big upgrade at 1b.
I have said for the last 6 months that this is going to be a tough year for FW. He is really going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to get the team the power hitting RH LF that we need.
First, does anyone know where to find a Free agent list for NEXT year? I am hoping that the guy the Braves need will be available for the 2012 season.
If that guy is available, I would consider re-signing Derick Lee to a 2 year deal and moving Freddie Freeman to LF (a la Logan Morrison) and pursuing an upgrade in CF over Nate.
Then sign a big FA bat for LF for 2012 season, trade D Lee and move FF to 1B.
If we can do that and keep Venters, Kimbrel, Minor, Teharan and Delgado,we should have a good chance to contend for a few years with top of the line pitching.
Didn’t the Prado talk start from the Yahoo article someone posted yesterday? The same one that said the Braves could be possible suitors for Prince Fielder?
The purpose of the farm is to produce players that can be called up to the major league club or traded to other teams for players that fit the current or future need better. There is nothing wrong with trading top prospects or any other prospect. The likely hood of Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Beachy, Minor….. all becoming productive big leaguers is next to zero. I’d say your best case is maybe 1 super star ace type pitcher, maybe one other top of the rotation guy and the others best case will end up no better than Kyle Davies. So as a GM Franks job is to decide who he and his scouts think is expendable and use that player to make us better NOW and hold on to the guys they feel will make us better down the road. Mistakes will get made by us as much as they are made by other teams its just part of baseball.
The Marlins have been taking other organizations top prospects for a decade by trading there best players in order to get prospects. You think the Red Sox fans would like to have Hanley back now?
Next season should be a good year but obviously ton of question marks(what team isn’t facing multiple issues these days?) The obvious ones are Chipper and Nate. Chipper giving you some production(although I am widely skeptical) would be a big bonus and Nate, well McLouth is the guy that starts in CF and it is his job to lose. Big if there. J Hey IMO doesn’t have the “sophomore slump” and should be a exciting player next season. All depends on the health. Prado, McCann Heyward. The fact that we lost to the team representing the NL in the WS tonight by games that were winnable with the lineup we trotted out, makes me think this offseason isn’t as dire as we need to make it out to be. Still think JJ is the key and if he is healthy he can get us to October ball regardless of who we have out in LF and if Freeman struggles at first. I am a big fan of Jurrjens and really disappointed he hasn’t had the opportunity to pitch in playoff atmosphere. I think he would be dynamite in that role. Hopefully it happen next season and he is healthy. I think he is the major trade chip after next season though to get us that BIG BAD BAT we all desperately want. Don’t see it till after the 2011 season.
BTW, huge Purdue fan and seeing Robbie Hummel go down again with ACL injury again was not only brutal, but tenders my pessimism about Chipper bouncing back at 39.
I’d say Infante is just about as good of a trade chip as Prado- I think he’s far more likely to be traded this offseason than is Martin. In fact, I think Infante and a couple of minor leaguers will net the Braves much more than many imagine. Just a hunch, tho.
there is much more to hitting for power than homeruns.
Doubles hitters should not hit 4, DAP. Sorry. In the context of what the Braves actually need offensively, dingers have a little more importance than you wish to give, I’m afraid.
DOB any chance there will be interest in Lowe this off season after the finish he had? I think Nick Swisher could be a reasonable addition and might be the odd man out if the Yankees sign Crawford or Werth.
I would only trade Infante or JJ if they could also dump McLouth and/or KK in the deal. fair to Good chance that Beachy or Minor can create the same numbers as JJ and his replacement Medlin last year. If JJ or Infante can’t be used to get talent like Kemp or Rasmus then salary dump might be just as good. Hate to see either go but these useless contracts are hurting the Braves chances to get veteran talent on the free agency market. It’s either that or just bite the bullet for one year and let em go. It’s a toss up in my opinion. Not knowing if JJ is sound is a gamble.
Memphis – what makes you believe Francoeur is classy? Is it the hissy fit he threw when he was optioned to AA a couple years ago after he needed adjustments? Or how about how he handled his ATL departure? Is it some of the questionable ways he’s conducted himself in his personal life (allegedly)? Or was it how he demanded a trade from the Mets when he wasn’t getting PT while sucking it up as one of the worst RFs in the game?
This guy’s ego is astounding given what he hasn’t accomplished in the past few seasons. I’m also astounded by this board’s obsession with former Braves who had worn out their welcome. Why would you want to go back to guys like Andruw, Furcal, and Jeff? The guys I lament are Wainwright, Feliz and Andrus…but there’s nothing to be done about them now…
3,230 comments Add your comment
jed
October 27th, 2010
1:34 am
operative word being “good,” frank. and we’re really only talking about signing one OF. at least this offseason. nate mclouth will be given every (yawn) opportunity to rebound. (in may, they’ll probably have to start looking for a replacement.) but instead of bringing in more retreads, i think wren will make a trade.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 27th, 2010
1:44 am
jed – for whom? I don’t see a trade happening, unless it’s for another retread.
nolie
October 27th, 2010
1:45 am
the Dye idea isn’t any worse than the idea of some of bringing Frenchy and/or Andruw back. Frank
I don’t want them back either, but they are 4 or more years younger and played last year at least. I’ll pass on all three
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 27th, 2010
1:48 am
Nolie – I don’t want Frenchy or Andruw back either..(LOL). I can’t figure WHY some think bringing either two back would benefit the club.
nolie
October 27th, 2010
2:04 am
nostalgia mostly I guess Frank. Every year old Braves are mentioned and often they have been so bad that if they were strangers most would laugh at the suggestion. I think we will do better than most any old Brave being mentioned so far, at least I sure hope so
nolie
October 27th, 2010
2:05 am
well g’night anybody who is left. Seeya Frank
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 27th, 2010
2:07 am
Night Nolie
Gary O
October 27th, 2010
8:01 am
Tomas,
I asked about Uggla yesterday too (my scenario was trading Prado for him). But DOB raised a good point. Last year, the Marlins received heat from MLB for their cheap finances, and with them looking to move into a new stadium, it is very unlikely that they would trade Uggla.
It was also reported that they are trying to sign him to an extension.
Along those same lines though, I wonder if the Braves can trade Prado and a prospect for an outfielder. My reasoning is, the FA market for OF is too expensive, and there are not a lot of good options.
Maybe the FA market for 2B is better (although I havent checked). I know Prado is arguably the team MVP, but maybe the Braves can sign a capable 2B in free agency, to go with the OF they trade for.
raleighbravefan
October 27th, 2010
8:30 am
Gary O – I don’t understand the logic in trading Prado. It makes no sense to me. If we are going to make a trade, we have an excess of pitching. We don’t have an excess of infielders, especially young, cheap ones who can hit, and with intangibles through the roof. I don’t think Prado is going anywhere.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
8:55 am
PRADO may not be cheap anymore. He’s eligible for ARB 1 and with the year he had, a low-ball figure is sure be overwridden, and substantially raised.
raleighbravefan
October 27th, 2010
9:08 am
richbrave – I understand, but what would it cost to replace him, and who is available for what we will pay him? I think his value is still underpriced.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
9:32 am
FALL BALL
ARIZONA
Posted up last night, page 12, 9:33 p.m. this article.
MEXICO
MATT YOUNG goes 1-3 with a run scored and an RBI, .444 BA
DOMINICAN
MAURO ‘45′ GOMEZ 3-5, 1 2B, 2 SO, .600 BA.
DIORY HERNANDEZ 1-4, 1 2B, 2 SO, .375 BA.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
9:36 am
raleighbravefan
October 27th, 2010
9:08 am
richbrave – I understand, but what would it cost to replace him, and who is available for what we will pay him? I think his value is still underpriced.
Oh, I’m just saying he won’t be cheap anymore. I’m not saying he should or would be moved. Not at all. I think he’s here for one at 2.44 mill. Personally I would feel sick to my stomach if he was traded, no matter who we got.
Fleming
October 27th, 2010
9:44 am
richbrave
I think we need some more numbers. The Francoer/Tex appeal of the blog seams to have run its course.
Ken Frost
October 27th, 2010
9:46 am
Prado ain’t going anywhere except to the bank.
Fleming
October 27th, 2010
9:47 am
richbrave
Replacing Prado’s bat with another 2b could be very expensive. Not many out there with Prado’s offense. Would take someone like Utley or Uggla to do it.
Hillbilly
October 27th, 2010
9:48 am
So what song did Jamey Johnson perform on Leno?
Fleming
October 27th, 2010
9:50 am
Morning Hillbilly. Didn’t get a chance to congratuate you on the little one
TennesseePaul
October 27th, 2010
9:53 am
richbrave: PRADO may not be cheap anymore. He’s eligible for ARB 1 and with the year he had, a low-ball figure is sure be overwridden, and substantially raised.
First year arb guys don’t blow the bank. He’ll certainly be paid more than he was, but it isn’t going to be massive like Teixeira, Howard, AJ, Lincecum, et al. Those types of raises come in the last year (I believe only the last year) of arb as that is when they are allowed to compare themselves to free agents or something along those lines.
Hillbilly
October 27th, 2010
9:54 am
Thanks, Fleming. Should be here just before the All-Star Break.
raleighbravefan
October 27th, 2010
10:01 am
Hillbilly – YEE HAH! Meant ot congradulate you yesterday. I’m out of that buisiness now (way out) and hoping for some long-overdue grandchildren one day.
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
10:02 am
Prado prior to getting hurt was leading MLB with the most hits. Let’s think about that for a minute. He is very young and going to be very good. Prado isn’t KJ and he hits the ball hard with addition to having power. This guy is the least of our worries, not trade bait but a definite asset.
David O'Brien
October 27th, 2010
10:06 am
AZBravoFan: No, Wren said the week after the season that hitting coach would be someone from outside organization, and with major league experience.
By the way, Wellman was let go as Double-A manager after the season. Braves didn’t even keep him in organization.
David O'Brien
October 27th, 2010
10:11 am
Frankie, regarding your 10:02: I’m with you on Prado, and agree he shouldn’t be traded. Huge piece of team, on field and in clubhouse. He and a couple others set the tone for 2010 Braves.
But would disagree with you about him being “very young.” He turns 27 today.
By the way, happy birthday, Martin.
Gary O
October 27th, 2010
10:17 am
Dont get me wrong. I’m a big Prado fan. Happy Birthday Martin.
But the only reason I wondered about trading Prado, is because although we have excess pitching, a potential trade partner might also want a position player in additon to pitching.
For example, we talked about StL and Rasmus. What if they could use a guy like Prado or Infante?
Couldnt it be an option to trade Prado and prospect(s) for Rasmus, and then sign a 2B in free agency?
raleighbravefan
October 27th, 2010
10:22 am
Gary – I understand your thinking, but wouldn’t trade Prado unless the deal was really special. I would be more likely to trade Infante than Prado, and I don’t like that idea either.
DAP
October 27th, 2010
10:23 am
trading martin prado right now would constitute a major overhaul of this team. martin is the heartbeat of the atlanta braves, and if you are going to make changes to completely change the identity of a very popular and successful team, you might as well trade literally everyone.
there is no reason to blow up this team, and thats exactly what youd be doing by trading prado.
njbraves
October 27th, 2010
10:26 am
I wouldn’t trade Prade, but I would put Infante in the right deal.
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
10:28 am
Unless Jurrjens is traded this year(I don’t believe he should especially with his trade value down), I am not overly optimistic with acquiring a formidable RH fixture in the outfield for next season. Nobody out there gets me remotely excited(Burrell, DeJesus, Posednik, etc). Unless we can deal our farm arms and include Infante or somebody that has everyday value we won’t solve our long term LF solution at all. I think JJ if healthy is the guy that we deal after the season going into 2012 and we become a serious WS that year. That aside, if we go the same route next season with over-the-hill short term solution what do you think about Berkman? NT Diaz as he won’t be needed and maybe sign Helms on the cheap to help out the bench and infield. I know the Big Puma hasn’t played much outfield but how much worse could he be than Melk-rat, Diaz or GA for that matter. I really think this guy has at least one more really productive season offensively. Didn’t really do much with NY but did rip a HR and 2B in a game against the Twins I believe. Being a switch hitter will help at 1st when FF needs to sit at times against the southpaws. Gives you some long ball which we desperately need as well. IMO, this guy may hit .275 with 25 HRs next season with somebody. Wouldn’t really trust him after next season but I would roll the dice with him next year if he somewhat affordable.
CB
October 27th, 2010
10:28 am
I believe Infante is a good trade candidate grouped with prospects if the Braves want to go that way. He is definitely in a sell high mode.
David O'Brien
October 27th, 2010
10:32 am
Braves special assistant Jim Fregosi to receive lifetime achievement award in scouting at Professional Baseball Scouts Foundation banquet on Jan. 15 in L.A.
Fregosi is the Braves’ top advance scout.
DAP
October 27th, 2010
10:33 am
fankie wren I know the Big Puma hasn’t played much outfield but how much worse could he be than
actually, he has played alot of outfield, just none in the last several years. i dont think he is physically bale to do it anymore, honestly. if we needed a first baseman, berkman would be one of my first choices, but he just doesnt fit the braves, im afraid.
magglio ordonez is the perfect target for this offseason. he is actually an outfielder, and has great offensive skills. hits for average, hits for power, doesnt K very much…perfect.
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
10:40 am
I like Mags and he can hit. If Berkman is healthy he is more versatile than Ordonez. Don’t count on the power factor from Ordonez. Last 3 years, 42 HR’s in over 1500 ab’s.
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
10:42 am
Guess that is around 1400 ab’s that is.
brian
October 27th, 2010
10:42 am
berkman is lefty though and the Braves are seeking a righty bat. Neither will provide top defense
brian
October 27th, 2010
10:43 am
switch hitter for berkman – sorry
NEW CARS
October 27th, 2010
10:45 am
DOB,
Did Wren beef up security in case Wellman comes crawling around throwing grenades.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
10:52 am
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
TennesseePaul
October 27th, 2010
11:02 am
The goal of trading Prado is so the Braves can constantly maintain a team age of around 22 to 24. Why? Just for sh!ts and giggles… plus it helps spike interest among fantasy leaguers and arm chair GMs.
Atlanta is a big enough market that it doesn’t have to trade away a good player when they become “expensive.” The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers.
TennesseePaul
October 27th, 2010
11:03 am
Congrats Fergosi
Lew
October 27th, 2010
11:05 am
You do not weaken your team to strengthen it. Just isn’t the it’s done and makes zero sense.
Wren isn’t going to trade starting pitching from our current staff and he isn’t going o trade a .315, 15 HR, 75 RBI lead off, second or third hitting 2B, 3B, 1B, Lfer.- which is exactly what Prado is. The only way they go out and get another starting middle infielder is if they decide Martin is the way to go for LF.
What will happen here y’all is that Wren will try to find (and I bet he succeeds) a young, up and coming outfielder with several controllable years and he’ll trade a gun or two or three from the minor league syste,
Any other course of action makes – like I said – no sense at all.
unbelievable
October 27th, 2010
11:05 am
Berkman cant play in the OF anymore either
Braveheart
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
It depends on who you can get and who you got. Are you better with Rasmus in center and Infante at second than you would be with Prado at second and someone else in center? It also depends on who would play left and who would be the super utility guy. No discussion of every variation of who you got or who you can get would be unfortunate, and is the kind of behavior that causes folks to lose jobs.
unbelievable
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
sorry DAP, didnt see your post
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
I love how people think that we should follow the managemant style of the Pirates and Marlins in order to contend. Let’s get a bunch of 24 year olds, and no veteran leadership. We’ll get in as a wild card once or twice and lose horribly every other year. Trade Prado? Garbage! Go home! Sorry to be so harsh, but I just can’t believe some of this trash.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:10 am
Braveheart
I understand what you’re saying, but trading your MVP is never a good option for a contending team. The only way it works is if someone offers us a Tex-like deal, which won’t happen. Prado’s worth goes beyond numbers (which were good anyway), and trading him weakens the team.
Lew
October 27th, 2010
11:10 am
The Braves have so much good, young pitching in the minors and almsot every team in MLB covets them. They have more than enough to make an excellent trade and to still kep Teheran and Delgado. Bank on it.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:10 am
TennesseePaul:
“………The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers………”
i.e. LOWE, KAWAKAMI and McLOUTH? They all looked like good contracts when they were made.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:11 am
Braveheart
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
It depends on who you can get and who you got. Are you better with Rasmus in center and Infante at second than you would be with Prado at second and someone else in center
NO!!!!
Lew
October 27th, 2010
11:11 am
richbrave-I realize it’s hardly the common thought around here, but Lowe’s still is.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:12 am
99
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
11:12 am
Berkman hasn’t played the outfield for the last several years but has played a lot in his career. Guy made a mint and had a huge contract in Houston and motivation probably wasn’t great. Who knows, maybe Fat Puma gets in shape this offseason as he will recognize the need to keep playing major league ball. I would take him short term over Ordonez who will be 37 yrs old. Not saying he is the answer but should be looked at if trade doesn’t bring in quality LF. Guy is a professional hitter.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:15 am
Braveheart
October 27th, 2010
11:06 am
Trading Prado should not even be discussed. He’s our MVP. It would be unjustifiable to trade him for Rasmus.
It depends on who you can get and who you got. Are you better with Rasmus in center and Infante at second than you would be with Prado at second and someone else in center
Yeash LEW, I agree. Just trying to see what specifics BRAVEHEART was offering by his statement.
Shouldn’t assume things. Sorry BRAVEHEART. What did you mean by your statement, “The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers.”
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:17 am
63
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:17 am
52
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:18 am
I would definitely try out Berkman if he’s affordable and healthy. I agree that he’s not the answer, but he’s an upgrade in LF. I’d try other deals first, but I’d take Berkman over Melky/ Diaz/ Hinske platoons any day.
richbrave
October 27th, 2010
11:18 am
Chirp, chirp, chirp. RASMUS for PRADO…………..no,no, a thousand times no.
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:18 am
Good morning all
I would not trade Prado for Werth or anyone else.
dmack2027
October 27th, 2010
11:19 am
If you are going to consider trading JJ, I think his value should be high enough to net a good major league player, despite having a down year last year.
Remember back when Delmon Young was traded for Matt Garza? Yeah Garza throws a little harder, but JJ is the better pitcher.
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
11:21 am
Owl hunter- exactly what I am saying.
BTW, Prado wasn’t just our MVP last season for the majority of the year, he was MVP candidate in the NL. We build around this guy sportsfans.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:21 am
It would probably take more than we should give, but I would, at least, ask about Delmon Young.
Braveheart
October 27th, 2010
11:23 am
Yeash LEW, I agree. Just trying to see what specifics BRAVEHEART was offering by his statement. Shouldn’t assume things. Sorry BRAVEHEART. What did you mean by your statement, “The only thing the Braves need to do is stop expanding payroll with negative numbers.”
Huh? That last quote you cited was from 10Paul, not me.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:24 am
Frankie
For real! I don’t know where people get these ideas. I don’t play fantasy baseball or many video gmaes. Maybe that has something to do with it. The best way to evaluate talent is to WATCH THEM PLAY!
Murph
October 27th, 2010
11:24 am
Shin Soo Choo… Shin Soo Choo… Shin Soo Choo
Chugga chugga chugga chugga CHOO CHOO!
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:24 am
Yeah if it does not rain in SF we have BASEBALL TONIGHT.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:27 am
Murph
I like Choo, but I’d be concerned about these military rumors. It’s the 1940’s all over again!
Mikeyc588
October 27th, 2010
11:27 am
I wouldn’t count on ANYTHING from Ordonez, save a batting average of somewhere near .300. Here’s his line for the last two years: .307/.377/.447. Much better than what we’ve had in LF? Absolutely. But keep in mind he played an average of only 108 games the last two years and lasst year he played 13 of his 84 games as a DH. The man was a terrific RH hitter. But he’s 36 years old. You can’t count on him giving you full-time OF production. And what LH hitter would you platoon with him in left field? Hinske? Seems like quite a defensive sacrifice…
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
11:27 am
Owl- Same here bro, just watch the games. Fantasy baseball doesn’t do it for me. Also, have to look a little deeper than just stats sometimes.
Murph
October 27th, 2010
11:29 am
Can’t Jimmy Carter do something about Choo’s military obligation? I mean, it’s not like he’s off freeing hostages somewhere.
Trade for Choo, turn Jimmy loose on Korea, problem solved.
O.J.
October 27th, 2010
11:30 am
Today is Prado’s golden birthday! Awesome!
Oh, and I forgot to mention it before, but, congrats Hillbilly. My wife and I just had a little one, she is 3 months old now. Cant wait for you to experience it again or all for the first time.
Congrats again!
mark bradley's 70's fro and mustache
October 27th, 2010
11:35 am
we should stop trding our “top” prospectsfor players. We have different degrees of talent, why does it always have to be top talent? We are the only team in baseball that does this. Wren is a idiot. Look at all the talent that has already been traded. I would liked to have that talent back. The trades were all a bust.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:38 am
Mark Bradley’s fro
I promise you that we are not the only team that trades top prospects. Ever heard of the Yankees?In fact we’ve rejected trades for Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, and many others.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 27th, 2010
11:39 am
I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Heat lose last night. I really hope they never win a championship but that’s highly unlikely.
mark bradley's 70's fro and mustache
October 27th, 2010
11:40 am
Mcdonalds new sandwich: The Mcclouth, two pieces of bread with no flavor for $6 million.
Murph
October 27th, 2010
11:42 am
Gotta trade top talent to get top talent… what other option does the team have? Trade mediocre players for mediocre players? That won’t fix the problem. Sign mediocre talent because the team can’t afford top talent? That won’t fix the problem either.
We have something that other teams want, they have something we want. Each wants to screw the other and get what they want for less. Hopefully Wren comes out of the fray smiling instead of licking his wounds.
DAP
October 27th, 2010
11:46 am
frankie wren Don’t count on the power factor from Ordonez. Last 3 years, 42 HR’s in over 1500 ab’s.
there is much more to hitting for power than homeruns. i like you look at total extra base hits and slg%.
2008, 54 XBH, .494 slg%, 2009 slg% was way down to .428, only 35 XBH (a bad year power wise, still a decent year overall), and in 2010, 30 XBH in about half a season, with a .474 slg%. he is perfect.
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:48 am
Who started this Prado talk? Is there a any truth to it or was it just a blogger?
mark bradley's 70's fro and mustache
October 27th, 2010
11:50 am
owl hunter, im talking about others that trade there own.
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
11:51 am
LTBF
Just a poor, misinformed blogger, thankfully.
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:52 am
Thank you Qwl.
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
11:53 am
DAP- again I agree he is a good hitter. Not perfect though(neither is Berkman). Guy is going to be 37 by the time ST rolls around and he obviously is injury prone at this stage. Pretty big gamble he will give you those numbers. If healthy-maybe but rolling the dice here. Wouldn’t categorize him as perfect situation by any means.
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:54 am
All I remember about Martin most of summer was hit after hit after hit.
NEW CARS
October 27th, 2010
11:54 am
As I said before, Heyward, Hanson, McCann, Prado and Teheran should be the only untouchables in the organization. What Wren has to see is which of the other assets will bring the most in return. The only way Freeman goes is if we’re getting a big upgrade at 1b.
flange1
October 27th, 2010
11:54 am
Morning All,
I have said for the last 6 months that this is going to be a tough year for FW. He is really going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to get the team the power hitting RH LF that we need.
First, does anyone know where to find a Free agent list for NEXT year? I am hoping that the guy the Braves need will be available for the 2012 season.
If that guy is available, I would consider re-signing Derick Lee to a 2 year deal and moving Freddie Freeman to LF (a la Logan Morrison) and pursuing an upgrade in CF over Nate.
Then sign a big FA bat for LF for 2012 season, trade D Lee and move FF to 1B.
If we can do that and keep Venters, Kimbrel, Minor, Teharan and Delgado,we should have a good chance to contend for a few years with top of the line pitching.
DAP
October 27th, 2010
11:56 am
flange1: 2012 free agents:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/03/2012-mlb-free-agents.html
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:57 am
NEW CARS 11:54
And Chipper if he can play.
Murph
October 27th, 2010
11:57 am
Didn’t the Prado talk start from the Yahoo article someone posted yesterday? The same one that said the Braves could be possible suitors for Prince Fielder?
LTBF
October 27th, 2010
11:59 am
And it least for next year, do not trade Lowe.
Soph
October 27th, 2010
12:01 pm
Happy Birthday Marteeeeeeeeen.
I’d like to add a no to trading him too.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 27th, 2010
12:04 pm
mark bradley’s fro
The purpose of the farm is to produce players that can be called up to the major league club or traded to other teams for players that fit the current or future need better. There is nothing wrong with trading top prospects or any other prospect. The likely hood of Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Beachy, Minor….. all becoming productive big leaguers is next to zero. I’d say your best case is maybe 1 super star ace type pitcher, maybe one other top of the rotation guy and the others best case will end up no better than Kyle Davies. So as a GM Franks job is to decide who he and his scouts think is expendable and use that player to make us better NOW and hold on to the guys they feel will make us better down the road. Mistakes will get made by us as much as they are made by other teams its just part of baseball.
The Marlins have been taking other organizations top prospects for a decade by trading there best players in order to get prospects. You think the Red Sox fans would like to have Hanley back now?
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 27th, 2010
12:05 pm
No its
Happeeee Birthday Marteeeeen !!!!
Frankie Wren
October 27th, 2010
12:08 pm
Next season should be a good year but obviously ton of question marks(what team isn’t facing multiple issues these days?) The obvious ones are Chipper and Nate. Chipper giving you some production(although I am widely skeptical) would be a big bonus and Nate, well McLouth is the guy that starts in CF and it is his job to lose. Big if there. J Hey IMO doesn’t have the “sophomore slump” and should be a exciting player next season. All depends on the health. Prado, McCann Heyward. The fact that we lost to the team representing the NL in the WS tonight by games that were winnable with the lineup we trotted out, makes me think this offseason isn’t as dire as we need to make it out to be. Still think JJ is the key and if he is healthy he can get us to October ball regardless of who we have out in LF and if Freeman struggles at first. I am a big fan of Jurrjens and really disappointed he hasn’t had the opportunity to pitch in playoff atmosphere. I think he would be dynamite in that role. Hopefully it happen next season and he is healthy. I think he is the major trade chip after next season though to get us that BIG BAD BAT we all desperately want. Don’t see it till after the 2011 season.
BTW, huge Purdue fan and seeing Robbie Hummel go down again with ACL injury again was not only brutal, but tenders my pessimism about Chipper bouncing back at 39.
flange1
October 27th, 2010
12:08 pm
Thanks DAP!
Only guy that looks at all interesting to me is Ryan Ludwick….
Owl Hunter
October 27th, 2010
12:13 pm
Frankie
I like JJ, too. I think he’s gonna pitch like he has something to prove.
Lollygagger
October 27th, 2010
12:14 pm
I’d say Infante is just about as good of a trade chip as Prado- I think he’s far more likely to be traded this offseason than is Martin. In fact, I think Infante and a couple of minor leaguers will net the Braves much more than many imagine. Just a hunch, tho.
Soph
October 27th, 2010
12:19 pm
No its
Happeeee Birthday Marteeeeen !!!!
Well a big duh to me, CraZy! Of course it is.
No Hawks opener for us today. Boooo. I’ll stop whining about it eventually.
ncscoots
October 27th, 2010
12:22 pm
there is much more to hitting for power than homeruns.
Doubles hitters should not hit 4, DAP. Sorry. In the context of what the Braves actually need offensively, dingers have a little more importance than you wish to give, I’m afraid.
AJJ
October 27th, 2010
12:27 pm
DOB any chance there will be interest in Lowe this off season after the finish he had? I think Nick Swisher could be a reasonable addition and might be the odd man out if the Yankees sign Crawford or Werth.
Travis
October 27th, 2010
12:28 pm
I would only trade Infante or JJ if they could also dump McLouth and/or KK in the deal. fair to Good chance that Beachy or Minor can create the same numbers as JJ and his replacement Medlin last year. If JJ or Infante can’t be used to get talent like Kemp or Rasmus then salary dump might be just as good. Hate to see either go but these useless contracts are hurting the Braves chances to get veteran talent on the free agency market. It’s either that or just bite the bullet for one year and let em go. It’s a toss up in my opinion. Not knowing if JJ is sound is a gamble.
704_Brave
October 27th, 2010
12:28 pm
Memphis – what makes you believe Francoeur is classy? Is it the hissy fit he threw when he was optioned to AA a couple years ago after he needed adjustments? Or how about how he handled his ATL departure? Is it some of the questionable ways he’s conducted himself in his personal life (allegedly)? Or was it how he demanded a trade from the Mets when he wasn’t getting PT while sucking it up as one of the worst RFs in the game?
This guy’s ego is astounding given what he hasn’t accomplished in the past few seasons. I’m also astounded by this board’s obsession with former Braves who had worn out their welcome. Why would you want to go back to guys like Andruw, Furcal, and Jeff? The guys I lament are Wainwright, Feliz and Andrus…but there’s nothing to be done about them now…