Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,230 comments Add your comment
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:04 pm
“I think the thing that bothers me more is that we got Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek instead of the Yankees first rounder and a supp. pick.”
I agree with this, but what’s worse for me is that we chose Kotchman over Kendry Morales. We made two more mistakes on top of the original mistake of the first trade. It’s been my experience that this is what happens when a bad mistake is made. Trying to fix it creates that downward spiral. I think we saw this in a different scenario when Brooks Conrad got the yips.
Ah well. Wren and co. have done a remarkable job in rebuilding the organization in a short period. I love where our franchise is right now and that’s all that matters.
Rob from SC
October 26th, 2010
5:05 pm
I think we get Michael Cuddyer
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:05 pm
and he was fifth in runs with 88.
where was he in leadoff hitters? Prado outscored him by 15 runs in fewer PAs and on a less hitting team. His lack of power hurts him at leadoff too, not HR power but 18 XBH is 671 PAs. That is just not acceptable IMO. He also got caught stealing almost a third of the time which is barely breaking even in steals
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
5:06 pm
I think the thing that bothers me more is that we got Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek instead of the Yankees first rounder and a supp. pick
ugh. Teixeira for Kotchman. That, to me, is Wren’s single worst move. I wasn’t impressed with Aybar for Ridgway (terrible waste there as well), or MFIKY for Chavez (complete short-sale on that one)… but Teixeira for Kotchman? The draft picks would have certainly been better. At least when the team traded Saltyips, Minor League Reliever, marginal pitcher, Elvis and Feliz they got immense talent in return plus a stand up lefty reliever many screamed about not resigning.
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:06 pm
Efrim – I maybe wrong about this, but since they also signed CC the Braves would have gotten the Yankees 2nd round pick since CC was ranked higher on the Type A free agent list.
Maybe, the real problem with the trade was Wren’s approach to moving Tex though. He narrowed himself to first basemen.
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:07 pm
“some times you’re the windshield some times you’re the bug”
Heh. I say that exact same expression all the time.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:07 pm
Teixeira for Kotchman. That, to me, is Wren’s single worst move
true
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:08 pm
We did not choose Kotchman over Morales. The Angels were willing to move Kotchman, but not Morales since they weren’t sure they cold hang on to Tex.
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:08 pm
“where was he in leadoff hitters”
I’d actually like to know the answer to that myself, but I don’t know how to sort for that. Anybody?
bvillebaron
October 26th, 2010
5:09 pm
Anyone who would seriously consider trading Kimbrel and Vizcaino for Colby Rasmus is out of their mind.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
5:09 pm
Heh. I say that exact same expression all the time.
So… you’re the bug this time?
jay dubu
October 26th, 2010
5:09 pm
LPAD,
For me the issue is that JS traded for a player that he should have known they had little to no chance of signing long term, unless Tex took a discount offer from the Braves.
Texas traded him, because they were not able to sign him to an extension. I don’t remember the figure, but I don’t recall the Braves’ offer being substantially larger than Texas’ offer.
With all the research done on signability, there was no reason for the snafu.
The Abs Man
October 26th, 2010
5:10 pm
DOB: While reading a current Tom Verducci piece on line, this came back to me…..during series with Giants, Verducci made point Escobar for Alex-G trade was strictly and individually made by Cox.
In your opinion, DOB, does this jibe with your account of how this July 13 trade went down? Thanks.
Efrim
October 26th, 2010
5:10 pm
I maybe wrong about this, but since they also signed CC the Braves would have gotten the Yankees 2nd round pick since CC was ranked higher on the Type A free agent list.
Nope. Tex was ranked higher in Elias.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
5:10 pm
In defense of the Kotchman trade, did anybody really believe he’d drop so quickly like he did? His numbers were pretty good in the big A.
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
5:11 pm
maybe I shouldnt have brought up the fact that Andrus isnt that good, I apologize.
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:12 pm
The fact that we still had a good farm system after the Tex trade, really shows the position JS had put this team in. I really think that gets lost in this trade. If JS didn’t put that work in, we would be the Pirates right now. Imagine, if we made that trade and didn’t have McCann, Escobar and Teheran.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
5:13 pm
I think the Braves should trade Conrad, Dunn and Kawakami for Rasmus, then ask Freeman to learn to hit righthanded.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:14 pm
it was for one and a half years jay, not half a year. sign-ability was less important, the main idea was that they would have him for two shots at a title , but things did not go that way. Also with his Tech background they likely thought they would have a better shot than Texas had.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
5:15 pm
Oh heck, I forgot to put the smiley on that last one. Folks will think I am serious!
When does the World Serious start? We need to be able to talk about some bad umpiring calls or which hotties were in the stands for the games………
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:15 pm
Using your logic jay dubu then the Rangers should have never traded for Cliff Lee this year. Do you think the Rangers fans want a do over on that one?
Also, JS had every intent of signing Tex. He offered him 18 million a year. Despite what people think, the Braves don’t have a problem spending money. Or signing Boras clients i.e. Greg Maddux, Andruw Jones, Derek Lee. Or in a few years Tommy Hanson.
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm
That should be Derek Lowe.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm
might as well just make him a switchy then DS
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm
“We did not choose Kotchman over Morales.”
“6:38pm: The Braves are now taking bids for Teixeira. ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the teams in the mix are the D’Backs, Red Sox, Rays, and Angels. Still, Arizona seems the most logical fit. The Angels won’t trade Casey Kotchman, and the Braves don’t care for Kendry Morales.”
I’ve heard a couple of things that supported this. The Braves wanted Conor Jackson, Justin Smoak or Casey Kotchman. That’s…not an All-Star trio although I know some people here are very high on Smoak.
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
5:16 pm
it didnt help that the Braves/Liberty cut payroll right around that time also. Tex was a GT grad I believe, the braves thought he’d love playing in ATL for Bobby and that he’d take a discount. The fact still remains that Tex did his job while he was here
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:18 pm
Efrim – In that case, they should have let Tex walk. But, it would have been taking a chance. CC could have went to Boston or something.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
5:18 pm
I really thought Tex would give serious consideration to signing in ATL, but after that press conference in NYC, it was clear that he had the right agent; and was all about the biggest contract.
Hey, if I am a big league ballplayer, I can’t say I wouldn’t take the cash either. I’d like to think I would consider staying with a team that maybe was my childhood team, but in that position, who knows.
Wait a minute, that’s the competition calling. Gotta run, maybe they are offering me a nicer company truck!!!
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
5:19 pm
I’d actually like to know the answer to that myself, but I don’t know how to sort for that.
Looks like in the majors Elvis was tied for fifth in Runs scored from the lead off spot. Martin was 16th from the lead off spot with 54.
Efrim
October 26th, 2010
5:19 pm
Maybe, the real problem with the trade was Wren’s approach to moving Tex though. He narrowed himself to first basemen.
I pray that never happens again. Sign a first baseman off the scrap heap. Now, Braves mgmt. thought Kotchman would be a better fit, but still, unfortunate move.
LPad
October 26th, 2010
5:20 pm
GV – I don’t take much stock in what Jayson Stark says. He may have been right, but I don’t think the Angels would keep a no hit backup in Kotchman, over a potential replacement in Morales.
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2010
5:21 pm
Rumor that has some legs: Jim Presley is among several being considered for Braves hitting coach. Presley was Fredi Gonzalez’s hitting coach at Florida when both were fired along with bench coach Carlos Tosca on June 23.
Fredi already has Tosca as his Braves bench coach, provided Tosca doesn’t get a manager job, and now the other in the trio fired by Marlins might also be on board with Braves. But I think they’re still considering a few guys for the job.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:22 pm
the Braves are more strick about the number of years than the amount-well at least back when they actually had money to spend once in a while- and I think that’s a good approach. Most horrible contracts end up rated that way because of length
Murph
October 26th, 2010
5:23 pm
“Anyone who would seriously consider trading Kimbrel and Vizcaino for Colby Rasmus is out of their mind.”
I must be out of my mind, because I would consider that trade. Let’s see, a guy with 20 something MLB innings and another with zero MLB experience for an outfielder with pop in his bat, speed in his legs, and 2 years of MLB experience under his belt.
I’m not saying they should take it, but I think you’re out of your mind if you DON’T consider that trade, especially given the state of the Braves’ outfield compared to their pitching.
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:27 pm
“Jim Presley is among several being considered for Braves hitting coach.”
He was one of our best players in 1990! Note: we were NOT good in 1990.
( But David Justice and Ron Gant were. Charlie Leibrandt, too.)
Joe
October 26th, 2010
5:28 pm
I’d deal Haywood, Freemen, McLoth, Prado for Ryan Brawn. He is better than anybody we have and we can then build around him and Mcannn. We’d still have plenty of pitching and enough offense to beat anybody except the Philies. Haywood cant field and stikes out 2 much for my taste. Freemen is unproven, Prado had a flukey season and Mcloth is just plain crappola.
Lets do this Braves!!!
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2010
5:28 pm
It should be noted though that when normalized runs to at bats (min 250 at bats) are taken into consideration, Martin Prado ranks first in the majors and Elvis ranks 14th
GTSteve
October 26th, 2010
5:28 pm
DOB…how do MLB people perceive Presley, is he a good hitting coach
jay dubu
October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
During the Braves Division run, one of the major reasons they only won 1 World Series, is the fact that they had no closer. Now, they have two young potential closers, and some want to trade one, if not both of them away.
Unless you’re getting a righty hitter that’s going to hit .300+ and belt 30+ homers, I’m for keeping both Venters and Kimbrel.
Jake W.
October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
Looks like in the majors Elvis was tied for fifth in Runs scored from the lead off spot. Martin was 16th from the lead off spot with 54
I wonder what the ratio is for games played to runs scored at that position since Martin played fewer games in the leadoff spot since he also spent a good amount of time hitting 2nd and 3rd.
iTiSi
October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here. Serves the Braves right, as he was treated dirty. Looks like that trade for Texiera really hurt the Braves and all the ones they got have helped them to the WS. More stupidity from Braves management, ESPECIALLY ON ELVIS ANDRUS! How can you be so ignorant? Don’t forget, they got Saltalamacia too from the Braves but then he was traded to Boston. Has to have thumb surgery now, but should help the Red Sox in the next couple of years. Good to see the Yankess and the Phils out of it, and hoping the Rangers take it all.
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
“The fact still remains that Tex did his job while he was here”
We lost a lot of close games in May, June and July because Teixeira was the opposite of clutch that second season. I pointed it out here, several other people picked up on it including DOB, DOB started noting it at the start of his blogs and the Sabernomics guy who is a Braves fan (does he post here?) wound up writing a series of columns about it here:
The links are triggering the moderation warning, but if you google “sabernomics mark teixeira”, three of the first four links will be applicable.
Amusingly, a friend on a different board who is a huge Moneyball guy linked me to this when he was trying to refute my assertion that Tex was not being the stud we needed at the time. I had to walk him back through the process of how I was accidentally the causality of all that data debate.
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
DOB – JIM PRESLEY? good grief, I really hope he can preach what he didnt practice. I dont want someone who posted a .290OBP in 8 seasons teaching our guys how to hit.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:30 pm
Looks like in the majors Elvis was tied for fifth in Runs scored from the lead off spot. Martin was 16th from the lead off spot with 54
I guess I’d want that rated per at bats, the gross totals tell us little. Martin had way fewer at bats there, but leadoff was where he had his best percentage of runs scored per at bat so if he had stayed there all season he might have had even mre than 100 runs scored. % wise he out scored Andrus anyway.32 and 15 is only a good steals performance in fantasy ball where CS costs you nothing..
Thanx for the link though 10P
Murph
October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm
I have now changed my mind completely about who the Braves should pursue this offseason. The player they need is…. drumroll…
Shin Soo Choo out of Cleveland. He hit .300 last season, 22 HR, 90 RBI, 22 SB, and a .401 OBP. That’s the kind of guy the Braves need. And he’d be under team control until 2014.
Make it so, Wren. Go get Shin Soo Choo!
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm
Actually, Braves have already interviewed Presley and are going to interview one or two more guys. So I’m not really expecting an annnouncement till after World Series.
keylargo
October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm
Trading away Jermaine Dye (a blind man could see he was going to be great)
First two years in KC – BA.235 / OBP.277 / SLG.354 / OPS .632
Must have been a blind man who could see into the future – the distant future.
TnBrian
October 26th, 2010
5:31 pm
I know that Marlins GM/President, whoever the hell he is, is one big douchebag, but do we really want ALL three fired guys on board. ALL three? I’d like to see what Milt Thompson could do here myself.
Jake W.
October 26th, 2010
5:33 pm
“The fact still remains that Tex did his job while he was here”
We lost a lot of close games in May, June and July because Teixeira was the opposite of clutch that second season.
And he also hasn’t hit to well overall in the postseason these last two years. Imagine if we had sank a lot of money into the guy and he disappeared every October. Maybe things work out for a reason.
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:34 pm
“He may have been right, but I don’t think the Angels would keep a no hit backup in Kotchman”
Kotchman was very popular not just in the clubhouse but with ownership there and he was viewed as the top prospect in the organization for 2004-2005 as well as the #6 overall prospect in baseball . His career minor league OPS is around .900. As someone else here mentioned, Kotchman’s decline was out of nowhere. I can’t help but think the trade combined with his mother’s health crisis impacted him and his power never developed the way that scouts always hope will happen with prospects.
TnBrian
October 26th, 2010
5:34 pm
I have a Jim Presley card or ten stocked in the attic somewhere. His cards were never listed in any Beckett’s. He wasn’t good, obviously.
Tomas
October 26th, 2010
5:34 pm
Jim Presley never heard of him, but if the Florida hitters are any indication of his work, I think he is pretty good.
Rhino
October 26th, 2010
5:35 pm
If the Braves can get Rasmus without giving up Kimbrel, a starting hitter, or Teheran, I think they have to do it. Maybe a package that includes Delgado and some other pitching prospects.
http://www.rhinorant.com
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:35 pm
oh my, the guy had a career 290 OBP. I hated him. I hope it matters more to him now than it did then
Gone Viral
October 26th, 2010
5:35 pm
“I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here.”
I too am in TN and all I can hear is the whooshing air as Francoeur swings and misses yet again. An employee is not treated dirty when they are given every opportunity to succeed but fail.
monty
October 26th, 2010
5:36 pm
iTiSi
October 26th, 2010
5:29 pm
“I’m in TN, but can hear Jeff Francoeur laughing all the way up here. Serves the Braves right, as he was treated dirty”
Seriously??
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:39 pm
Choo is a good player no doubt Murph, I’d like to have him even if he is LHed. There is also some question whether he will have to miss MLB time for his military requirement, though.
Tomas
October 26th, 2010
5:39 pm
What about Hal McRae the ex-cardinals hitting coach who did a great job in St Louis and was fired for no apparent reason other than Larussa’s relationship with McGwire.
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
5:40 pm
Tomas they are not. Could you imagine players taking hitting lessons from a guy who posted these numbers in 8 seasons .247/.290/.420?
jay dubu
October 26th, 2010
5:40 pm
LPAD,
Do you think the Rangers traded away nearly as much for Lee as the Braves did for Tex? (Taking into consideration that Tex was for 1.5 year, and Lee was the remainder of 2010)
Did you think that Tex would be the missing piece to the Braves playoff puzzle at the time of the trade? If so, then it was a gamble worth taking from your prospective, but I didn’t think so at the time.
Murph
October 26th, 2010
5:40 pm
I am the new president of the “Bring Shin Soo Choo to Atlanta” fanclub. I’ll be organizing several Shin Soo Choo fan days and will create the “Choo Choo Train”, a cardboard train that roams the walkways in the outfield picking up passengers and dropping them off at their seats.
Shin Soo Choo.. woo woo
Owl Hunter
October 26th, 2010
5:41 pm
unbelievable
Bobby Cox had bad numbers as a player. How did that work out?
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
5:41 pm
it would be like Jeff Francoeur becoming our hitting coach…well, Jeff may actually be a better option
unbelievable
October 26th, 2010
5:41 pm
Owl, Bobby didnt teach players how to hit
Murph
October 26th, 2010
5:42 pm
“There is also some question whether he will have to miss MLB time for his military requirement, though.”
What?!? [in my best Darth Vader voice} NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
junk garrett
October 26th, 2010
5:42 pm
I don’t know about you but I will really miss Chino Cadahia gnawing on sunflower seeds and sucking the bottom out of those Gatoraid containers. He was a true professional in those catagories.
jay dubu
October 26th, 2010
5:43 pm
It’s common knowledge that the Baseball Union pushes players to take the biggest contract. Once a player goes to free agency, $$$ become the driving force.
I’m sure the Braves knew this.
DS1
October 26th, 2010
5:44 pm
A persons ability to actually hit in the major leagues has nothing really to do with whether he can help other players with their hitting. Some folks didn’t have the refined skills, but yet can teach them.
What is Corky Miller doing now??
Murph
October 26th, 2010
5:45 pm
“What about Hal McRae…”
I’m connected to Brian McRae on LinkedIn… want me to ask him what his brother is up to?
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:48 pm
Bobby Cox had bad numbers as a player. How did that work out?
that’s why he didn’t become a hitting coach, he became a manager
N8
October 26th, 2010
5:48 pm
My first Mariners game I went to, Jim Presley hit a walk off grand slam. I was 15 years old, the Kingdome was EMPTEEEEE and it was an extra inning game, 1-1 I think. Presley hits a walk off slam in the 10th or 11th inning.
Starting pitcher for the Red Sox that day? Tom Seaver. Saw Oil Can Boyd pitch that series too, but no phenom rookie. Some guy named Clemens.
I don’t actually remember much about his Braves playing days. Wasn’t too much memorable about the team then. But I remember being excited because I had seen that grand slam in person.
Let’s hope if he’s hired that his tenure as a Braves hitting coach is more memorable than it was as a player.
Jake W.
October 26th, 2010
5:49 pm
Did you think that Tex would be the missing piece to the Braves playoff puzzle at the time of the trade? If so, then it was a gamble worth taking from your prospective, but I didn’t think so at the time.
So are you suggesting that the braves should have just held onto all their prospects at positions that were clearly blocked or not a need for the braves and continued to have holes in their lineup. Given what happened to our pitching rotation the earliest year we could have seriously thought about competing was 2009. Say we do keep all the prospects and suffer the same injuries, great then come end of 2008 we could have traded for a good starting pitcher instead of signing Lowe. We could have traded for Peavy then used all that money to sign who, Ibanez. Who else was on the market at the end of the 2008 season? I guess maybe if people regretting this trade could convince me that we would be better off today than we currently are then I could share in that regret but I don’t see where we would be better off.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:51 pm
A persons ability to actually hit in the major leagues has nothing really to do with whether he can help other players with their hitting DS
I agree for the most part, but if he had little regard for taking a walk and getting on base that might carry over to his teaching. Not saying it will but it might, depends on why his numbers were what they were and if he believes in a different approach now. It may come as a surprise, but I don’t like low OBP numbers
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:53 pm
N8 did you see my note a few nights ago about the coffee cups for sale that were modeled after Nikon and Canon 35mm lenses?
GTSteve
October 26th, 2010
5:53 pm
@Murph…this from bravesjournal.com
The Indians are rapidly turning into Royals-Ohio, and might be willing to part with Shin-Soo Choo, but if they were, that would be one heck of a bidding war, especially as Choo has three arb years left. Again, if the Braves got involved, the asking price would begin with Julio Teheran.
Owl Hunter
October 26th, 2010
5:54 pm
I can’t believe people think that the only way to be a good hitting coach is to be a good hitter in the majors. Some guys have the mind for hitting, and not the physical tools. I don’t remember Rudy Jaramillo breaking a bunch of hitting records.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:54 pm
I agree, ChooChoo would bring a steep price
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:56 pm
I don’t think anybody is seriously saying that Owl. It would depend more on what he believes than on his physical ability.
Murph
October 26th, 2010
5:56 pm
Yeah Steve, that’s the article that put the idea in my head. Honestly I had never even heard of Choo before reading that. The black hole that is Cleveland.
With the numbers that guy is putting up and putting up consistently, the fact that he’s only 27, and he’s under team control until 2014… man, would be tempting to see what they wanted.
Owl Hunter
October 26th, 2010
5:56 pm
I would not do Teheran for Choo. Ever.
Owl Hunter
October 26th, 2010
5:57 pm
nolie
Mr. Unbelievable said that players shouldn’t take advice from a guy with a bad batting line. That’s what I was talking about.
GTSteve
October 26th, 2010
5:58 pm
It’s hard enough to hit .300 in the Majors 2 years in a row…..he hit exactly .300 2 years in a row….talk about consistency.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:58 pm
it’s the age old potential for proven experience dilemma.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
5:59 pm
I took his comment as tongue in cheek Owl, maybe I was wrong
Owl Hunter
October 26th, 2010
6:01 pm
DBacks just hired Don Baylor.
Murph
October 26th, 2010
6:03 pm
I understand why guys say things like “I would not do Teheran for Choo. Ever.” It’s scary to trade your top prospect, especially ones like Teheran.
Have you ever seen Bill Cosby’s standup movie “Himself”? In it he’s got a story about his son getting in trouble and how he wanted to kill him… wouldn’t bother him because he’d just make another son that looked just like him.
I feel kinda the same about prospects. Sure, a good prospect is hard to come by, but at some point you have to trust in your system and, if need be, part with a good prospect in order to make your team better. Other prospects will come along. The one you traded might do great, might turn into a HOF player, or might turn into a major bust.
If you can trade one prospect, a player who shows signs that he might succeed yet has not proven it, for a player that HAS proven they can succeed at the MLB level… well, sometimes you have to take that chance.
I know nothing about Choo beyond what I see on baseball-reference.com, but I do know that the Braves have giant holes in the OF and a wealth of prospects in the minors. Trading some of them might fill those holes with players who have shown they can perform in the majors.
Hedging bets isn’t always a bad thing.
N8
October 26th, 2010
6:03 pm
” wonder what the ratio is for games played to runs scored at that position since Martin played fewer games in the leadoff spot since he also spent a good amount of time hitting 2nd and 3rd.” Jake W
Prado started 66 games batting leadoff and scored 54 runs (.81 runs per game).
Andrus started 134 games batting leadoff and scored 86 runs (.64 runs per game).
Andrus had 145 hits in those 134 games at leadoff, 58 walks, 164 total bases (180 if you count his +16 in the stolen base category).
Prado had 94 hits in those 54 games, 20 walks and 152 total bases (155 with his +3 in SB category).
So, it’s easy to see that even without the speed of Andrus, Prado’s doubles capability and just better hitting overall, makes him a better candidate for leadoff. Provided there are guys to knock in the runs behind him.
Because, as I’ve said many times this year, a solid argument could have been made for Prado being the best leadoff, 2-hole, and even 3-hole hitter for the Braves this year. Might even have been a decent RBI producing cleanup hitter, had he been given the opportunity.
Simply put, while Heyward got all the raves, ooohs and aaaahs…. Prado was flat out the Braves best hitter last year… when healthy.
Where Prado (or a guy like Infante) should hit in the lineup, should be based on the surrounding cast of characters.
If Wren goes out and gets a legit cleanup hitter? I’d go:
Prado
Chipper
Heyward
“new guy”
Mac
Gonzo
Freeman
Infante (if he’s playing LF or somewhere)
If Wren gets mediocre guys to fill CF and LF? I’d go:
Infante (or new guy)
Chipper
Heyward
Prado
Mac
Gonzo
Freeman
(new guy)
Or the 2nd new guy could be bumped up with Gonzo and Freeman coming down to the 7-8 spots.
In other words, Prado might still be the best table setter we’ve got next year. But if a legit power guy isn’t brought in, he also might be better served hitting those doubles and HR with guys on base. Add to that, depending on who comes in, we might need his RH bat to break up Chipper, Heyward and Mac.
Hard to say at this point.
We could alwasy just slot Tex into the cleanup spot. Might be worth seeing if Cashman is interested Kimbrel, Delgado and Freeman for him, right?
Tomas
October 26th, 2010
6:03 pm
Murph if you can………….
Hal McRae was a decent hitter in his time 290AVG 351OBP 454SLG% in an 18 year career.
N8
October 26th, 2010
6:05 pm
“N8 did you see my note a few nights ago about the coffee cups for sale that were modeled after Nikon and Canon 35mm lenses?” nolie
No I didn’t. That’s kind of cool. Got a link?
N8
October 26th, 2010
6:06 pm
Besides nolie, on these cold ND (about to be winter – cold as can be today), when I’m not hungry enough to eat a whole bowl, I can simply have a cup of sad.
Danga
October 26th, 2010
6:07 pm
I was reading something the other day that said you want your best hitters hitting 1, 2, and 4 because the 3 spot comes up so often 2 outs and no one on. But it went on to say the difference between a fully maximized lineup order and the worst possible one was only about 15 runs over the course of the season.
Mark
October 26th, 2010
6:09 pm
Prior to the trade deadline when the Braves were looking for outfield help, one of the names mentioned was Cody Ross. Why did the team deal for Ankiel instead of Cody Ross? Did the Marlins want too much or did Ankiel grade higher?
N8
October 26th, 2010
6:10 pm
“What about Hal McRae?”
What? Is there some defective phones in Bobby’s old office that need to be thrown against the wall or something?
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2010
6:10 pm
But it went on to say the difference between a fully maximized lineup order and the worst possible one was only about 15 runs over the course of the season.
Ugh….if Bobby wasn’t such a moron we could’ve had those extra .09 runs per game back.
Murph
October 26th, 2010
6:10 pm
SF claimed him off of waivers
nolie
October 26th, 2010
6:12 pm
it was at Shop4tech.com N8. I got one for my galpal who is a photographer. She uses Hasselblads in the shop but shoots a lot of 35MM too with a canon. should look pretty cool sitting among the equipment,
http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Coffee_Cup_Mug/41_543_1717
they were at bit cheaper till yesterday
Owl Hunter
October 26th, 2010
6:14 pm
Cody Ross was unavailable to us due to waivers. SF had a worse record than us at the time.
nolie
October 26th, 2010
6:14 pm
I got the Canon 24-105 one
DS1
October 26th, 2010
6:15 pm
nolie
I guess the question is this: Was his low OBP because he wasn’t looking to work the count, or because he was so bad, he had to swing at the first pitch close?
Again, there have been some decent hitting coaches who were marginal players, but like you state, it will depend on his approach.
Love me some high OBP.
Jake W.
October 26th, 2010
6:16 pm
We could alwasy just slot Tex into the cleanup spot. Might be worth seeing if Cashman is interested Kimbrel, Delgado and Freeman for him, right?
Nope, I guess the irony of this all is that while Tex at the time fit the exact description of what we would need in the lineup and what we currently need(power) his numbers in the postseason with the Yanks haven’t been to good at all. He hit .180 last year while slugging .311 and hit .148 this year while slugging .296 and since we don’t have a Yankee like lineup to hide his non production we could be in bad shape if we did give him a big contract.
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2010
6:17 pm
unbelievable: you could make a very long list of mediocre players who were great managers and/or hitting coaches or pitching coaches. And a long list of guys like Ted Williams, arguably the best hitter of all time, who couldn’t teach to players because they didn’t have the patience to deal with guys who weren’t as gifted as they were.
Do you know that Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan, one of the best in the business, wasn’t even a pitcher? How ’bout Leo? Never got out of the minors.
Presley’s Marlins hitters were a pretty impressive lot, and a bunch of them made big strides under him. The guy was there 4-1/2 seasons, he’s not new to this.
By the way, Presley was an All-Star one year with Seattle. The guy averaged about 26 homers and 90 RBI over a three-year span early in his career, back when those were pretty substantial offensive numbers in the mid-80s.