Braves tired of planning while others play for pennant
When GM Frank Wren, manager Fredi Gonzalez and the rest of the Braves’ brass and top scouts gather this week outside Orlando, they will do what Braves officials have gotten too used to doing at this time of year for the past decade: Begin putting together a sweeping plan to tweak or revamp last year’s team into a serious playoff contender while operating within what’s become a fairly tight budget.
Oh, and doing it while watching other teams play for the pennant. Ouch.
Yes, Braves officials will watch the NLCS games at night while gathered in a large meeting room at their hotel in downtown Celebration, Fla. The Braves themselves were last in an NLCS in 2001, and Wren said they’d obviously prefer to put off future annual organizational meetings in Florida a few weeks while occupied with the postseason.
Think about that: It will have been a decade since they last made it to the league championship series when Gonzalez tries to guide Braves back there in his first season at the helm in 2011. A decade.
And while Gonzalez will likely find it impossible to build icon status and the level of universal respect around baseball that Bobby Cox did in a quarter-century or so – to start with, no manager stays in one place long enough to do that anymore – his mentor scoffs at the idea that Gonzalez is in an unenviable position. That of being the proverbial man that replaces John Wooden, rather than the man who replaces the man who replaced Wooden.
Cox says Gonzalez is the perfect managet to take the reins and lead the team into the future. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
“Just let me add, about replacing me,” Cox said during Gonzalez’s introductory news conference Wednesday, and here Cox went off in a different direction than the question he’d been answering, because he had something he wanted to say about an opinion he’s heard often, at which he, as we noted, scoffs.
“Walter Alston was replaced by Tommy LaSorda, who was a scout and a minor league manager, and did a great job,” Cox said. “They forgot all about Walter Alston. And that’s what’s going to happen here, OK?
“I told Fredi when he first got the Florida job, that you are who you are. You’ve got to be yourself. You take little things from managers, players, and you put them in a little bag here. It’s a little bag. But Fredi’s 6 feet 2, 235 pounds; it’s a big bag.” [Can I just say, here I was smiling, because Cox was loose and on a role, going off on tangents unlike we're accustomed to hearing from him. OK, carry on:]
“But you are who you are, and Fredi’s got all the right makeup to be a great manager. He already is. He’s got all the respect around baseball that you can get. It’s not going to be as difficult [as people think]. I’m going to be in the background. There’s always new starts, and Fredi’s getting a great start here.”
Gonzalez, seated next to Cox, smiled and said: “I’ve been called worse than a big bag.”
And there was much laughter in the room.
♣Turner Field = elimination: Anyway, so the Braves last made it to the final step before the World Series in 2001, when they lost the NLCS to Arizona in five games. The elimination loss came at Turner Field, which probably comes as no surprise to most of you.
In my first couple of seasons covering the Braves, I noted (before we had blogs, or I would have written it here) that Turner Field was the place where playoff runs came to die. Braves playoff runs, that is.
The last time the Braves faced elimination in a home postseason game and won? That’d be the 1996 NLCS against St. Louis, when the Braves won in six seven games. In their final year at old Fulton County Stadium.
We’re not saying Turner Field is cursed. We’re just saying the Braves have faced elimination in eight postseason home games since moving into Turner Field in 1997. And they’ve lost all eight of those games.
The eight times: They lost Game 6 against Florida in the ‘97 NLCS. Lost Game 6 against San Diego in the ‘98 NLCS. Lost Game 3 of the 2000 division series vs. St. Louis. Lost Game 5 of the ‘01 NLCS vs. Arizona. Lost Game 5 of ‘02 division series vs. San Fran. Lost Game 5 of the ‘03 division series vs. Chicago. Lost Game 5 of the ‘04 division series vs. Houston. And lost Game 4 of this year’s division series vs. San Fran.
Those are the seven times the Braves have faced possible elimination in postseason games at Turner Field. And eliminated, they were.
Braves have lost eight consecutive home postseason games since moving from their old stadium (above) to Turner Field.
So that’s one part of the past that Gonzalez can only improve upon. Nowhere to go but up, in that specific category.
Of the Braves’ past five postseason trips, four ended at Turner Field. The only exception, the only time they were eliminated in a road game in the past 10 years, was the 18-inning loss in Game 4 at Houston in ‘05. That is not Devine (ahem, pardon the pun; I couldn’t resist).
Gonzalez, Wren and about a dozen other Braves officials and top scouts will convene at Celebration, Fla., and nearby Dark Star (aka, Braves spring training headquarters at the monolithic Disney fun sector) and jump bull-bore into planning and putting together next year’s team.
They will scour the 40-man rosters of every team for players who are pending free agents, or who might be non-tendered or otherwise available in trades. During morning and evening sessions, and over lunch or while sitting at the ballpark watching instructional league games, Wren will talk to scouts and other team officials about dozens and dozens of players, seeking any insight and recommendations they have.
There will be freewheeling sessions in that big room at the hotel, and at restaurants over meals and possibly drinks. The Braves will try to leave no stone unturned as they search to improve their offense, specifically with the addition of at least one proven, productive outfielder — preferably (but not absolutely) right-handed and with more power than the Braves got from all of their outfielders not named Heyward.
They’re going to have to be creative, Wren said last week. Which wasn’t surprising, given that the Braves will probably have a payroll in the $90-93 million range, which, Wren said, in terms of “real dollars” will be slightly higher than the payroll this season, which was slightly higher than 2008.
(As we’ve written here many times, including last week, Wren and other Braves officials insist that when insurance payments are included, along with late-season additions, etc., the Braves’ payroll actually increased, even though none of us amateur accountants has been able to figure out exactly how they come up with the figures they presumably are working with; they don’t give us those figures.)
Anyway, the Braves have close to $55 million committed next season to five players, when you include prorated signing bonuses and buyouts to these salaries: Derek Lowe ($15 mill), Chipper Jones ($13 mill), Tim Hudson ($9 mill), Brian McCann ($6.5 mill) and Nate McLouth ($6.5 mill).
Add another $5 million combined for the options the Braves will pick up on versatile veteran Omar Infante (wil he be at third base? second base? back to utility role? outfield?) and shortstop Alex Gonzalez, and you’re at about $60 mill for seven players.
OK, now add in raises for the arb-eligible players they choose to keep from this list: Martin Prado, Jair Jurrjens, Peter Moylan, Eric O’Flaherty, Matt Diaz, Melky Cabrera, Scott Proctor.
One can see where the Braves could get to $70 million a hurry if they keep at least a few of those guys, which we know they will.
Oh, and I haven’t even included the $6.67 million the Braves still owe Kenshin Kawakami, a portion of which they will surely have to eat in order to unload him on a team here or in Japan. If you included Kawakami’s salary, the Braves would already be at about $75 mill including three or four of those arb-eligibles.
“I think we owe it to him, and to us, to explore what possibilities there are out there,” Wren said of Kawakami. “Because with the development of our young pitchers, it’s become more difficult for us to project him in the rotation, and that’s really the best role for him.”
Two winters after trading for Kawakami, the Braves will try to move him this winter with one year left on his contract.
I then asked if sending him to a Japanese team was an option.
“I don’t know that yet,” Wren said. “We haven’t had a change to explore exactly what our options are going to be there, but I think … he very well may be back here, but we’ll at last explore alternatives for next year.”
(Me talking here: I’m not going out on a limb here by saying I really believe Kawakami will be elsewhere.)
Then there are the Braves’ pending free agents other than Infante and Gonzalez (those two are technically considered pending free agents, until the options are picked up after the World Series): Billy Wagner (planning to retire), Takashi Saito, Kyle Farnsworth, Troy Glaus, Derrek Lee, Eric Hinske, Rick Ankiel.
The Royals sent $1 mill to the Braves as part of the trade that brought Ankiel and Farnsworth, in order to cover the $500,000 buyouts of their 2012 options (Farnsworth’s option is $5.25 mill and Ankiel’s is $6 mill).
Lee’s still a full-time player, and the Braves don’t have a full-time position available because they’re planning on rookie Freddie Freeman to be their primary first baseman and play perhaps 140 or more games.
♣ Wagner void: The Braves will miss retired farmer Billy Wags, both for his obvious work on the field but also his work with their young pitchers in the bullpen, in the clubhouse, and going all the way back to workouts in the spring
Saito would be great to have back in a mentor/backup closer role, but he’ll be 41 next season and I don’t know that the Braves can commit significant dollars to someone that old in the bullpen.
Also, keep in mind the mentor thing probably won’t be quite as big a deal in 2011, with potential closer/setup duo Craig Kimbrel and Jonny Venters (or Venters and Kimbrel) already having some seasoning and other youngsters not expected to have as significant a role in next year’s bullpen.
(Then again, you never know: Who among us, a year ago or even last spring, ever thought Venters would have as big a role as he filled?)
“It was so valuable having Billy Wagner out there for the development of these young guys,” Wren said. “And it started from the time they threw their first bullpens in spring training. Billy was out there and he was talking to them. He really enjoyed that mentor role. He enjoyed it, and those young pitchers just ate it up. It’s great to see.
“You want your young pitchers to be open and trying to learn. Not all players are that way. Some guys come to the big leagues and think they’ve got it all figured out. To our guys’ credit, none of them had that approach. They were sponges to whatever Billy had to say.
“I think that’s why we saw them perform like they did down the stretch. Especially a guy like Craig Kimbrel. I mean, he came down the stretch and was able to perform at a really high level, and obviously gained the confidence of the manager and pitching coach, who felt like they could use him in any situation at the end. I think a lot of credit goes to Billy.”
Then Wren was asked about getting another veteran to help in that regard.
“I’m not sure it’s going to be a guy of that ilk,” he said. “I mean you’re talking premium, Hall of Fame closer credentials. You don’t find those guys very often.
“There might be a veteran addition to the bullpen, but that’s not a given. Because we’ve got a lot of good arms out there. Peter Moylan might be the veteran. He’s been around long enough to know what goes on. There’s some depth that we have out there that we feel real good about.”
♣ Whither Hinske? Hinske was a big part of the team, both in terms of leadership in the clubhouse and performance on the field, particularly during the first half when he helped spark the Braves after their nine-game April slide.
Hinske told me immediately after the playoff loss to the Giants that he really enjoyed his entire Braves experience and the guys in the clubhouse, and would certainly be interested in returning.
Hinske had a big hand in getting the Braves to the postseason (his fourth consecutive postseason appearance with four different teams). But do the Braves have a spot in 2011 for the pending free agent?
Here’s what Wren said Thursday when I asked about possibly re-signing Hinske:
“Eric Hinske was great for this team. He’s expressed an interest in coming back,” Wren said. “I just don’t want to predetermine a lot of this until I’ve had a chance to sit with the staff and sit with our scouts and look at our next year strategies to make sure it all fits, and make sure there is a good role for him on the team. It’s a little different, just in the fact our regular first baseman is going to be a left-handed hitter. That’s different than last year.
“It was a combination of Glaus and Hinske that was attractive to us a year ago, and that’s what made that work so well. The great thing for ‘Ski is, he can play different positions, and he can do some different things. But the biggest impact was coming off the bench.”
Then Wren was asked about acquiring someone to help out at first base, to back up the 21-year-old Freeman.
“I think we’re going to at least discuss that,” Wren said. “Not a platoon; I don’t think there’s a platoon in his future. But I’m thinking you may not want a young player to play 162. Maybe he plays 140 and you kind of take care of him against selected guys and give him a break.”
♣ Getting back to the big need, and McLouth: Of course the Braves would like to add not just one, but two proven outfielders. But we also have to take into account the situation with Nate McLouth, and the fact that only one spot might be open in the Braves’ outfield — center or left, with McLouth in the other, at least as the Braves sit and plan now for the coming season.
He’s owed a $6.5 mill salary in 2011, plus there’s a $1.25 mill buyout on a $10.65 mill club option fro 2012. No team is going to take on that full salary after McLouth’s performance since he was traded to the Braves in June 2009, including a .190 average in 2010 with 12 doubles, six homers, 24 RBIs and a .298 OBP in 288 plate appearances.
So unless the Braves find an extremely creative way to package him in a trade with someone else, the reality is that they are going to have to hope he improves in 2011 because they can’t afford to pay him $7.75 mill to go away.
(In that scenario, he could sign with any team for the big-league minimum, and the Braves would still be on the hook for that $7.75 mill. Imagine if he went elsewhere and suddenly hit like he did in 2008, or like he did for a couple of weeks in September? The Braves aren’t going to have that happen. They’ll keep him and hope, or, like I said, have to come up with a very creative way to move him and most of that salary.)
After McLouth’s demotion to Triple-A, he returned in September and hit .367 with seven extra-base hits (three homers) and 10 RBIs in a 10-game stretch from Sept. 5-18, and also had two other would-be homers taken away by catches above the center-field fence.
“We saw him get off to a great start when he got back and everybody said, ‘That’s the Nate McLouth that we saw in Pittsburgh,’” Wren said. “So we know that it’s in there. Now it’s really our task to unlock it and keep seeing it.”
The Braves don't have many options with McLouth, under than to hope that he improves. Outside of one 10-game stretch, he hit .165 in 2010.
The bad news: In his other 75 games this season, before and after that 10-game stretch, McLouth his .165 (35-for-212) with nine doubles, three homers, 14 RBIs, 31 walks and 55 strikeouts.
Of the 285 major league players who had at least 275 plate appearances this season, McLouth ranked 285th in batting average (.190) and 269th in OPS (.620).
Since he was traded to Atlanta on June 3, 2009, McLouth has hit .229 with 17 homers and 60 RBIs in 169 games, with a .330 OBP and .709 OPS.
In his last 169 games for Pittsburgh before the trade, he hit .257 with 27 homers and 98 RBIs, with a .339 OBP and .891 OPS.
He also stolen 28 bases without getting caught once in his last 169 games with the Pirates. With the Braves he’s stolen 19 bases in 27 attempts.
♣ So how do they do it? How can the Braves add a potential bat or two while operating under a presumed $90-93 mill payroll? That restriction pretty much assures they won’t be in the bidding wars for the biggest free-agent outfielders available, Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford, who are both expected to get long-terms (six- or seven-year) deals worth more than $100 million. Both will be overpaid because of the limited market, and so will Adam Dunn, who many believe will re-sign with the Nationals.
The Braves aren’t included to overpay for any free agents, with the recent exception of Lowe, who signed in unusual circumstances when the Braves were rather desperate to land a front-line pitcher after losing out on others. (And by the way, the two years and $30 mill left on his contract sure don’t look nearly as onerous for the Braves as the three and $45 mill did at this time a year ago.)
At first glance, it seems obvious the Braves are going to have to trade some of their young talent to get a top, affordable outfielder in a deal. And teams will line up if the Braves make available young pitchers on the current roster or from their bevy of top minor-league arms.
But the Braves aren’t going to trade potential future No. 1 starters Julio Teheran and Randall Delgado, and Wren makes it sound like they’re inclined not to trade other young arms already in the majors, such as rumored potential trade target Jair Jurrjens.
Though again, keep in mind that Wren is probably not going to come out and say anything otherwise, not at this stage of the offseason.
“We’re going to have to be creative,” Wren said. “We’re going to have to take a look at every possibility. At the end of the day, I’m not sure what those are going to be and how it’s going to shake out. But we’re going to be at least exploring everything.”
As for the idea of trading from a position of strength, their starting pitching, he said: “We’ve kind of based our whole turnaround the last two years on pitching, and I think that’s something we’re going to try to continue, to at least out-pitch people. And we want to get a more well-rounded team.
“Our first-half team, we really were happy with our first-half team and the way they produced. We were in the top tier from a standpoint of offense and runs scored. We didn’t have the power, but we hit doubles and made things happen. So I think we’re going to try to continue to have strong pitching and know that we have to look to improve our offense.”
What does that mean, exactly? Well, here in the middle of October, it’s difficult to say. Give it a little more time, and we might start hearing things that give us a better idea how the Braves are going to go about this.
“It’s way too early to even contemplate what we might do, because you just don’t know,” Wren said. “We’re going to be very hesitant to trade pitching, because I think that’s our strength. There’s a reason why we matched up, as highly thought of as the Giants’ rotation and the Phillies’ rotation were, the last two weeks of the season we matched up with those rotations very well. Our guys pitched pitched-for-pitch with those rotations, which were thought to be the two best rotations in the National League.
“And that’s without J.J. [Jurrjens] being available for us. He’s likely going to have the knee ’scoped and just get it cleaned, so he’s 100-percent healthy coming into spring training. You roll the clock back a year, J.J. was right there at the top of that rotation, too. So that’s an area where we feel really good going into the spring.”
♣ OK, let’s get this filed. Sorry for the delay in getting up a new post, but we (Carroll and I) had a real busy week after the Braves’ playoff series, obviously, and are supposed to try to take some time off.
In case you missed it, check out this link to Steve Hummer’s terrific feature story on Fredi Gonzalez from the Sunday AJC. Here’s the link itself if you’re having any trouble with that link and want to paste it in your browser: http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/gonzalez-fresh-style-familiar-684078.html
Oh, and if you’re a film buff and haven’t seen The Social Network, I’d urge you to. It’s one of the best movies I’ve seen this year, for sure. And speaking of best-of-the-year, the San Diego band that I think made probably the best rock album of the year, The Soft Pack, is at The EARL in Atlanta on Thursday.
And this great singer-songwriter, Elizabeth Cook, is at Eddie’s Attic on Wednesday. I’ve told you her album, Welder, is one of the best country albums of the past few years, but I had no idea that clogging is another of her talents. Check out this video, and get in line behind me if you’re planning to propose.
Here’s the Soft Pack on one of the many great cuts off their self-titled album, and here they are doing it on Letterman. The lead singer used to pitch for the University of Richmond baseball team, by the way.
“ANSWER TO YOURSELF” by The Soft Pack
You gotta answer to yourself
You can’t depend on anyone else
You gotta know where you stand
And what’s in your hands
Yeah you gotta answer to yourself
♦
You gotta write down what you know
You gotta make sure that it’s known
Because they’re coming along to see what you’ve done
And they’re gonna claim it for their own
♦
You got a rabbit in your hat
You got a few tricks up your sleeve
Don’t get stuck in a rut
Or stuck in the same
You got exactly what you need
♦
You got a talent don’t you know?
You’re more talented than you know
And you give it a shot
And give it the time
And be surprised how far it goes
♦
But I think I’m gonna die
Before I see my time
But I think I’m gonna die
Trying anyway
♦
You gotta answer to yourself
2 days a week outside yourself
You take an hour a day, an hour a day
And you don’t respond to anyone else
♦
You got a few things on your shelf
You got to look through for yourself
You gotta choose what to read
Choose what to believe
And you don’t take it from anyone else
♦
But I think I’m gonna die
Before I see my time
But I think I’m gonna die
Trying anyway
5,393 comments Add your comment
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
6:39 pm
Without even having read it yet, thanks for the new blog, DOB!
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
6:47 pm
I then asked if sending him to a J*panese was an option.
A J*panese team? Investor? Restaurant?
Seriously though…thanks DOB. Great blog
Rob from SC
October 17th, 2010
6:47 pm
Bring back Fulton County Stadium
Mark
October 17th, 2010
6:49 pm
Nice work, DOB…I know FW probably hasn’t given any specific names, but do you have any ideas of potential trade targets for the Braves?
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
6:49 pm
But what could we get from a J*panese team? I’m not sure if I’ve heard of trading between countries very much.
Mark
October 17th, 2010
6:50 pm
They wouldn’t trade, they would just sell his contract to them…
LTBF
October 17th, 2010
6:52 pm
Thanks for new blog DOB,very infomitive.
GovClintonTyree
October 17th, 2010
6:53 pm
Wow, that’s a long blog. Thanks DOB.
Rob from SC
October 17th, 2010
6:53 pm
We can also improve our offense if certain players start working pitchers. Heyward and Jones should be good for close to 200 walks. However Gonzalez and McLouth are free swingers. McCann can improve by chasing less often. I am not talking about close pitches. I am talking about balls that are 6 inches to a foot off the plate.
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
6:54 pm
Oh, I guess I was confused because DOB said that the Braves would have to eat money if they sent him to a J*panese team. But I guess that means that they’d sell his $6 million contract for $4 million. Or something like that
China Grove
October 17th, 2010
6:55 pm
Great blog.
Maybe we’ll finally trade for Swisher? haha…
Also, did anyone see how well Cody Ross is doing? Where are the doubters on him now?
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
6:57 pm
China Grove – he still wasn’t worth Kris Medlin.
MattyRoss
October 17th, 2010
6:58 pm
Thanks for the fix, DOB. Another day of Braves withdrawal endured.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:00 pm
If they want to raise the odds of staying in the playoffs they need to consider raising the payroll. I don’t think you can assume that a higher payroll will necessarily make a difference to every team, but as well as the Braves do with the funds they have, I think having another 10mil would be a real differeence maker to the Braves. So many years it seems like they are just one decent/good player from being a powerhouse but are satisfied with just being in the hunt. . I don’t usually criticize their approach, I just think it’s a shame that we no longer feel comfortable at all with having the ability to sign a difference maker. Obviously ain’t gonna happen, but I wish it would
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:01 pm
A J*panese team? Investor? Restaurant? jeffrey
sushi bar
Rob from SC
October 17th, 2010
7:02 pm
nolie
I wish MLB would reqire individual ownership. For the most part corporate ownership is not good for baseball.
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:02 pm
Over the offseason, I think we should make some flashcards to get us ready for blogging in 2011. On one side it’d have a picture of the player/coach smiling and on the other side it’d have the correct spelling of his name.
Medlen, Jurrjens, Fredi, Schuerholz, McLouth, Schafer. And maybe even vintage Braves. Maddux, Andruw, Francoeur, Saltalamacchia
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:03 pm
Where are the doubters on him now?
right here. he is erratic as hell and what he is doing now in no way means he will have a good season this coming year.If he turns out to be “the big bat” it likely ain’t gonna be enough
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:05 pm
KK: I used to be Major League pitcher
Customer: Well right now you’re choppin my sushi!
McFann O O – 6
October 17th, 2010
7:06 pm
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!
(it didn’t look like we’d get to 10,000 anytime soon, so I wrote a new one)
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:06 pm
individual owners can be cheap too Rob. think Miami and Minnesota when Pohlad had them
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
7:08 pm
CARL CARL CARL. the one that makes the most sence is Carl Crawford.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
7:09 pm
I knew it was going to be a very good blog! You pretty well covered everything there is to cover at this point! Thanks again!
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:09 pm
What about Carl Sagan?
CB
October 17th, 2010
7:10 pm
I guess we need to post more to get this blog up to 10,000.
CB
October 17th, 2010
7:11 pm
1
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
7:11 pm
“jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:09 pm
What about Carl Sagan?”
What about him?!
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:12 pm
It’s already up to 27. only 9,973 more to go.
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:13 pm
Bama Brave said that Carl Crawford is the Carl that made the most sence, but I think that Sagan can make a lot of sence too
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
7:16 pm
…”I think that’s something we’re going to try to continue, to at least out-pitch people.”…Frank Wren
In theory, outpitching people (and playing good defense) is the correct recipe. But sometimes, we must be able to outhit people. So I hope we get at least one lefit OF (since we will probably be stuck with Nate and his contract).
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
7:16 pm
jeffrey d – interesting way to prove a point.
LAG
October 17th, 2010
7:17 pm
What, can we not say “the demonym pertaining to the country of Kenshin Kawakami’s birth” anymore?
Keith
October 17th, 2010
7:18 pm
Can you imagine Crawford at the sparkplug in this lineup? I might rather have Dunn even though I know they’re hanging their hopes on Freeman @ 1st.
Keith
October 17th, 2010
7:18 pm
*as the sparkplug*
Yes, they need to raise payroll.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
7:19 pm
jeffrey d – I don’t really think KK is going to be reduced to chopping sushi anytime soon, btw.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:20 pm
no LAG we caint. no J@P the right way cince all those racial posts awhile back
McFann O O – 6
October 17th, 2010
7:20 pm
Rob from SC McCann can improve by chasing less often. I am not talking about close pitches. I am talking about balls that are 6 inches to a foot off the plate.
This is true…I think getting a “big bat” to really help him carry the offensive load will help. I think he felt more pressured this year to be “the guy”, and while some of that was due to guys going down with injuries, I think a lot of it was Frank Wren’s fault, although he didn’t have a lot of choice for a big bat last year apparently. But he counted to heavily on Chipper and even BMac—who is a very very good hitter, of course, but he’s also a catcher…not that that’s a bad thing, but they do tend to wear down a bit—and got Troy Glaus, who had a good month and a half, but is on the downside of his career.
Then there’s also another angle—well, sort of a co-angle, I think…because I don’t think you cann hang all 98 K’s on one of these two cases alone. I know BMac wouldn’t be too thrilled with me bringing this one up (though I doubt he’d like that first excuse a whole lot, either, as he’s a guy that doesn’t like any kind of excuse), but uh…you kind of have to point a little bit at his vision problem as a reason for a lot of those K’s, don’t you? I know cutting out caffeine was supposed to lick that for the most part, but one still has to wonder…
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:21 pm
Keith – when KK would pitch a couple racist doofs (I don’t think they were really racist though….just immature) would come on and say stuff like “Of course we’re going to lose with a J*p pitching”
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:21 pm
Sorry that was LAG, not Keith
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:23 pm
not all that interested in Crawford for this team, they already get guys on base. he ain’t a run producer like they need most and he will be incredibly overpaid by one of the big market teams.
jeffrey d
October 17th, 2010
7:24 pm
not all that interested in Crawford for this team, they already get guys on base
Melky, Ankiel, McLouth, and Diaz don’t. People long for Crawford so much because we desperately need an OF that can hit his weight (I know….that’s not fair to Melky), and CC won’t cost any prospects
Chop Chop
October 17th, 2010
7:25 pm
I’d take Crawford, but not at the price he’s going to command.
Sure would be nice if we were spending $150 million-plus and didn’t give a damn about some overpaying, but that ain’t the case.
old brave, retired
October 17th, 2010
7:26 pm
I really like the idea of creatively trading Nate McOut. I just can’t sit through seeing him with constant
0-2 counts for another year. It is difficult to envision him getting better. I think we need to re-sign Gonzo at short and of course Omar. Omar can play anywhere and hit. I think Prado is for real and will continue to hit. The outfield is a problem other than Jason. But outfield is the easiest position to fill. Pitching is the hardest, catcher is next hardest, shortstop is third hardest to fill and you get the picture. We have pitching and young ones coming up. I don’t want to trade any of them. I think Venters, Kimbrel and Moylan are the basis of a great, young bullpen. So our only real problem is the contracts of Kawakimi and McClouth and finding an outfielder or two. Better than a poke in the eye with a stick.
Chop Chop
October 17th, 2010
7:28 pm
I’m sorry that I missed the wackiness of the NLDS, but I went on a weeklong trip to the Boston area. I’m just glad that the end was painless. I’m still shocked we didn’t get past the Division Series, but alas, Brooks was here
Anyway, the offseason is always fun and interesting. Better to lose early than late, I say.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
7:29 pm
“nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:23 pm
not all that interested in Crawford for this team, they already get guys on base. he ain’t a run producer like they need most and he will be incredibly overpaid by one of the big market teams.”
Hope you’re doing well, Nolie. Agree about Crawford. There is no point in people wanting players out of the team’s price range, and he’s probably going to be overpaid by the team that signs him. Anyone remember Beltran? How has that turned out for NYM?
Gulfwaves Gary
October 17th, 2010
7:31 pm
I would like to know where Frank Wren was when Cody Ross was available on waiver. He killed the Braves and doing the same to the Phillies. If I hear the announcers say again how S.F. stole him from the Padres and the Braves were not even interested. I guess the dead outfielders we have had Frank Wren sitting pat.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
7:33 pm
Gulfwaves Gary – do you actually read this blog and have any idea what went on with the Cody Ross thing, at all?!
Bravefaninok
October 17th, 2010
7:35 pm
I would like to know where Frank Wren was when Cody Ross was available on waiver. He killed the Braves and doing the same to the Phillies. If I hear the announcers say again how S.F. stole him from the Padres and the Braves were not even interested. I guess the dead outfielders we have had Frank Wren sitting pat.
The Giants had the worse record at the time Frank Wren never got to put in a waiver claim& if he did the Giants still had first dibs.
CB
October 17th, 2010
7:35 pm
I still believe it will come down to trading some of our pitching or top pitching prospects. We have very little else to offer and very little money for free agents. Lowe will have more appeal with only 2yrs left,but it may take losing several of our best prospects to get the young OF we need. Wren is going to need some guts to do what has to be done.
American Legion
October 17th, 2010
7:36 pm
I’m surprised there has been less chatter about Medlen’s return to the health. He looked great for a young pitcher both in the pen and in his starts this year until his injury.
Is the severity of his injury such that the Braves are looking to him in 2012 more so than next year?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:36 pm
I would like to know where Frank Wren was when Cody Ross was available on waiver
what?? he was never available to the Braves on waivers
tmoneylove
October 17th, 2010
7:37 pm
no more former roiders, please!!!
adam
October 17th, 2010
7:38 pm
we need zack greinke
CB
October 17th, 2010
7:40 pm
nolie,get a couple homers in the playoffs and you look like Babe Ruth.
Feeanch
October 17th, 2010
7:44 pm
That might have been the best blog of the year, DOB. We appreciate all that you and Carroll do. I’m still in mourning from this season.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
7:44 pm
some people on here dont get it. WE need out fielders right? we need smart and fast ones to. look at what we had last year. I agree that he will cost. If we was to sign him and trade for matt kemp. then our outfield would look pretty nice. we have the cash!
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:52 pm
you are right some don’t.anybody who thinks they are gonna spend what it takes on two guys like that do not get it at all. just cause a guy is better than what we had does not mean he is the right choice all things considered. That is what having a clue is all about.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:53 pm
I mean who in the hell wasn’t better than what we had?
Jeff R
October 17th, 2010
7:53 pm
Well, add up what the team owes Chipper, Kawakami, and McLouth – that’s – what? – $26 million down the drain.
I think there’s a better chance Chipper retires than Wren moving Kawakami or unloading McLouth.
Though Wren is intent on building for the 2011 run, I think he’d be better off pursuing a power-hitting OF prospect on the verge.
stuart
October 17th, 2010
7:53 pm
Well Dave on the premise that the Braves dont want to have organizational meetings while others are still playing; they are the only ones who can fix it.
Greene Hornet
October 17th, 2010
7:53 pm
I know I’ve said it before, but to close this season out I’m sure we all here thank you, Carrol, and others for their work here. Thanks for keeping us up to date and all of your writing and interactions with us fans. I know this age of technology gives fans a voice (some of which should chose to excercise their right to remain silent) and some fans say things they shouldn’t, but I hope we all can continue to support the Braves and you guys that bring us close to our favorite team. Thansk again for the work you guys do.
CB
October 17th, 2010
7:54 pm
You?
Couch Tater
October 17th, 2010
7:55 pm
Thanks again, DOB.
“During those long summer tours, there’s nothing on television that doesn’t rot your brain except for baseball. And I love the game. I love the history of the game. I love the fact that anything can happen but probably won’t. But sometimes does. I love that you don’t have to be a perfect human specimen to be a good player; you can be overweight, you can be too short, too skinny.
Let’s just say I’m a National League girl, because I don’t believe in the designated hitter. And you can quote me on that.”
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/features/what-ive-learned/ESQ0604-JUN_WIL#ixzz12f38P1yk
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:57 pm
I guess I would have to take exception to her lambasting of summer tv. I think there are some pretty darn good shows on in summer nowdays
nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:58 pm
Sorry Bama, that post sounded rougher than I meant it to
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
7:58 pm
The Braves have to get a legit OF in here, because this offense has too many question marks. In my opinion, AGon and Brian are the only guys we dont have any questions about, because we have a pretty good idea what to expect out of them.
Heyward – Sophomore slump?
Chipper – Will he stay healthy and play well?
Prado – Will he stay healthy?
Freeman – What kind of year will he have?
Nate – Will we get any production out of him?
I understand we dont have the money to sign a premier FA. But we have enough talent in the minors to make a move for a legit OF.
And Rasmus would not be my first choice, because he is left handed.
Mikeyc588
October 17th, 2010
7:58 pm
DOB – Thanks for the heads up about the show at The Earl. I hadn’t heard The Soft Pack, but I live near EAV so I’ll probably have to go. I like that track. Sounds a lot like The Strokes to me…
Branch Rickey
October 17th, 2010
7:59 pm
It’ll take more than Carl Crawford to inject life into this lifeless, lethargic lineup.
If the 2011 team includes McLouth, Melky, Ankiel, etc., there is no way we compete with the Phillies. Too much payroll is locked up in Lowe, Chipper and Kawakami for Wren to make any meaningful acquisitions.
LTBF
October 17th, 2010
8:00 pm
Still would like to see a poll on this blog where we can pick all-time Atlanta Braves team position by position. It would be interresting and give us something to do.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:02 pm
“nolie
October 17th, 2010
7:57 pm
I guess I would have to take exception to her lambasting of summer tv. I think there are some pretty darn good shows on in summer nowdays”
“The Closer” and “Leverage” and “Royal Pains” are my personal favorites.
David O'Brien
October 17th, 2010
8:02 pm
American Legion: It’s no slight on Medlen at all, but rather just the reality that his Tommy John surgery is almost always an 11-13 month recovery period. So the earliest the Braves expect him back would be August, and more likely it’ll be September, if he returns at all in 2011.
GarynpOH
October 17th, 2010
8:05 pm
wow still would want to PAY for Dunn when we have the top prospect for 1st base in Freeman, i don’t understand that one.
David O'Brien
October 17th, 2010
8:07 pm
What, can we not say “the demonym pertaining to the country of Kenshin Kawakami’s birth” anymore? LAG
No, because we don’t have time to play grade-school teacher and delete every post from the bitter bigots who couldn’t resist ruining it for everyone by spewing ignorant bile every time one of the Japanese pitchers took the mound this season.
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
8:07 pm
DOB, your work is stellar, as always. Seriously, we have had a couple of back and forths, but your blog is the best. Period. And with the work you do in the offseason, well, it helps get people like me through until next April.
David O'Brien
October 17th, 2010
8:08 pm
Jason, thanks.
Bat Masterson
October 17th, 2010
8:09 pm
Thanks for the new blog David, you covered a lot of ground, good stuff. Thanks for the Elizabeth Cook clogging link too, man who knew, I could get behind some more of that.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:10 pm
I really like all those and several more like Burn Notice, plus several of the new ones this summer were pretty decent I thought
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
8:11 pm
I really wish the Braves could have gotten Nelson Cruz before this season began. He won’t be available now. He was put on waivers a couple of times in the past as well. Could have been our Ortiz (in terms of productive player picked up off of the waiver wire…)
I really do, for some reason, think there is a chance the Braves get Kemp. Don’t know why, but I think he may be one of their targets. Guy still has potential to be a .300 30 100 with 25+ SBs. But, he reminds me a little bit of ‘Druw in his attitude towards working out, staying in shape, and overall approach to baseball.
Rob from SC
October 17th, 2010
8:12 pm
McFann O O – 6
I agree to the wearing down issue. We need to do a better job next year of resting players.
Couch Tater
October 17th, 2010
8:12 pm
nolie –
I meant to write that was from a 2004 interview with Emmylou. I can’t remember what was on TV then, except a PBS special on memory exercises.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:13 pm
I could live with Kemp if they don’t hafta give up too much. He’s a risk to some extent. but getting away from the glamour life might settle him some. and he should bounce back at least some
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:15 pm
nolie – cable has really added a lot to the quality of tv, hasn’t it? Is tonight the season finale of “Mad Men”? I think it is. I’m not missing that! I hope the Giants win tonight, but I’m not missing “Mad Men”!
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:15 pm
yeah I kinda agree if it was 6 years ago, most of the good summer stuff has come out since then. Emmylou is a sweetie no doubt. Saw her in some coffee shops in NYC back in the days when she was a folkie. sweet voice then too.
Piedmont Blues
October 17th, 2010
8:16 pm
Branch,
Of the three you listed, only McLouth has a prayer to be on the 2011 team. Ankiel and Melky are gone. Ankiel’s buyout is much cheaper than his (overpriced) option. And Melky will be nontendered. I’m willing to bet on that.
And if there was a way to justify eating McLouth’s contract and releasing him, the Braves would do that. Just don’t think they have the stones (or the bank account) to justify that.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:17 pm
ok now Mad Men is not one I care much for. but you enjoy anyway
Piedmont Blues
October 17th, 2010
8:18 pm
McFann,
I think you’re onto something when you say McCann pressed when he was expected to carry the offense. If he goes back to being the second or third most important run producer on the team, he’ll probably rake once again.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:19 pm
yeah Pied, 7.75 mil I think it is would be a big chunk to swallow for them if they cut McNate. Hey maybe be will bounce back some. he doesn’t really need to get back to that career year numbers, 255/355/425 would be an improvement and those numbers used to be doable for him
dobearsbare
October 17th, 2010
8:19 pm
Wren has recovered from the PR gaffes with Smoltz and Glavine and now says the right things, and I think an argument can be made that he’s made the best moves he could given the team’s payroll constraints. if he’s tired of other teams in the LCS and WS, he’s not alone. I’m sure the players are tired of it and the fans certainly are. Someone needs to ask these questions to Liberty Media, though. Because they don’t seem the least bit interested in winning anything with the Braves.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:19 pm
“nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:17 pm
ok now Mad Men is not one I care much for. but you enjoy anyway”
Thanks Nolie
Bat Masterson
October 17th, 2010
8:21 pm
Another year of creative financing, well I guess we should be used to it by now.
I have been thinking about that Liberty Media, Sirius XM deal less than two years ago. Liberty got their loan back plus interest in less than six months, plus their stake in siri. What’s that worth today, off the top of my head, based on Fridays close, about 3.75 billion. Would not surprise me to see it go to 5 billion by the first quarter of next year. Man would 1/4 or 1/2 of 1 % of that look good on top of the Braves budget. Ah what the hell, means nothing.
VaBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:23 pm
We need a Everyday Outfielder that can hit around 25 homers and drive in 100 runs.
LT A Blogger
October 17th, 2010
8:24 pm
DOB, CR- I’ll second the love for all the great work this season- makes the season that much more fun.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:25 pm
Bat – you know their financing doesn’t equate to the team’s financing, right?! Corporate ownership! Numbers do very strange and interesting things!
Kyle
October 17th, 2010
8:26 pm
DOB- Any idea on who the Braves are after for hitting coach?
Mr. Obvious
October 17th, 2010
8:26 pm
2nd Chance:
Bat Masterson
October 17th, 2010
8:31 pm
MIBravesFan _
Yeah, I know and it’s not like that siri deal had anything to do with the Braves, but man they got fat on that deal. Of course I’m glad they made it, because I played along.
Heck, I don’t think they would miss 18 million or so.
JD
October 17th, 2010
8:32 pm
Hey DOB – sometimes it takes balls to be a woman brother!! wonder if she can cook too?
Bat Masterson
October 17th, 2010
8:33 pm
Couch Tater
October 17th, 2010
7:55 pm
Thanks for the link, good read.
JD
October 17th, 2010
8:33 pm
Not that it matters of course…
Bat Masterson
October 17th, 2010
8:35 pm
9900
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
8:35 pm
Jason,
I think Kemp is our best chance for several reasons. 1)He had run-ins with the team this year, been called out by the GM and Torre, and his agent has suggested a trade might be best for both sides
2) His salary next season is $6.95 mil. Given the divorce proceedings of ownership, Dodgers might be looking to save money, although after the 2011 season, he stil has one more arbitration eligible year.
3) Right now, the Dodgers have Billingsley, Kershaw and Lilly under contract, but the other starters are FA. They need pitchers.
I like the fact that he is right handed, and has the potential to be like Andruw Jones (good and bad), but I would take him in a LA minute.
VaBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:37 pm
everyone ready for another offseason of talking about who’ll we’ll get as our so call bat.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:37 pm
so far the deals that have thought such obvious matches are not what Smilin’ Frank has pulled off. Kemp would be ok with me too
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
8:37 pm
Rob, McFann,
Agreed about resting players. If I’m not mistaken, AGon has never had this many ABs, but yet we only gave him 1 or 2 days off after we traded for him.
Glaus was struggling for weeks, but Bobby hardly gave him days off. Prado was hurt and struggling, but Bobby never gave him any days off.
Fredi needs to do a better job with resting players, and Wren has to give him better options so that when Fredi wants to rest his players, we have capable spot starters.
Steve McP
October 17th, 2010
8:38 pm
Another good summer show was Justified – most of the good ones are on the alternative networks, not much on mainstream, but then again there is never much on mainstream unless you like quizzes, reality or vaguely humorous cop series.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:39 pm
“Bat Masterson
October 17th, 2010
8:31 pm
MIBravesFan _
Yeah, I know and it’s not like that siri deal had anything to do with the Braves, but man they got fat on that deal. Of course I’m glad they made it, because I played along.
Heck, I don’t think they would miss 18 million or so.”
I would take an extra $9 mil for the payroll! Just give them an extra $9 mil! (I feel like a Dickens character!)
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:39 pm
yeah that “big bat” never materialized last year did it? unless Bat Masterson on the board was a stand in
McFann O O – 6
October 17th, 2010
8:39 pm
Rob from SC—
Yeah, I mean…Ross is pretty good. I’m not saying sit BMac twice a week, but, ya know—once a week, plus an extra off-day here and there. Course, that goes back to having another bat to carry more of the workload. Bobby couldn’t afford the luxury of giving BMac too many extra days this past year ’cause guys were going down and there wasn’t a whole lot of other help…
Piedmont Blues I think you’re onto something when you say McCann pressed when he was expected to carry the offense. If he goes back to being the second or third most important run producer on the team, he’ll probably rake once again.
I think I have to agree with that one! I was going through some old 2006 stories for a slideshow I’m putting together, and man-oh-man…those were some great numbers! I did enjoy reminiscing…
VaBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:40 pm
I like Kemp too. Put him in LF and bat cleanup.
benchwarmer
October 17th, 2010
8:42 pm
Of great interest to me is who will be the next hitting coach. TP, as proven by statistics, did a good job. I can’t say how he might have been better but I recognize that a hitting coach holds no bats.I believe that TP has an above average baseball mind and like he says will be very useful in an expanded role. Or maybe not. After all what do I really know. Blog speculation is a rampant disease and I am it’s victim. Must say that McLouth seems to be redeemable. Hinske would be a very nice retainment. Must have something in the outfield of very good quality. Don’t see the two super studs mentioned being affordable. Nice mix this year of experience and youth. Keep that in mind FW. Is Wags not interested in coaching?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:42 pm
you are right, it has been a number ofl years since Alex was near that total, but then again he walks so seldom that his PAs still ain’t all THAT high
Darryl Blackberry
October 17th, 2010
8:42 pm
I like the idea of trying to find the “real” Nate McLouth next season…but I’d hate to hang onto Kawakami. What Brooks Conrad is to defense, Kenshin Kawakami is to starting pitching. Not good.
McFann O O – 6
October 17th, 2010
8:42 pm
Gary Wren has to give him better options so that when Fredi wants to rest his players, we have capable spot starters.
True that. Of course, he filled that need at catcher rather nicely. And actually—the Braves bench was outstanding this year…and even better when they were, ah-heh, the bench. A tad exposed when they were pushed into everyday duty…
benchwarmer
October 17th, 2010
8:43 pm
Ment someone new in the outfield.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:44 pm
I’m all in favor of the Kemp idea! The Dodgers need pitching and we have a happy surplus of it. And I think they want to trade him. I could be wrong, but that fit doesn’t seem to work there right now.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:44 pm
for much of the last year there were so many injuries and so many players struggling at the same time I don’t think there was as much opportunity to rest guys. Bobby usually is known for playing a lot og guys more than many other managers do. just that kinda year I think
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:46 pm
r…and even better when they were, ah-heh, the bench. A tad exposed when they were pushed into everyday duty…
so true
Couch Tater
October 17th, 2010
8:46 pm
Get a good job with more pay and you’re o.k….
San Francisco shareholder advisory firm Glass Lewis & Co. crowned Liberty Media’s Gregory Maffei as the nation’s highest-paid CEO in 2009 — tallying his total compensation at a whopping $188 million.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/maffei_pay_beats_all_wall_st_ceos_m6brZ44GZxnTe9lRLSTF2O#ixzz12fNapxFD
nolie
October 17th, 2010
8:48 pm
yup porn is a money business
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
8:48 pm
I’m ok with Kemp as long as he’s playing LF, and Wren needs to be judicious about what he gives up for him–he’s not on the best of terms with his organization and coming off a rather poor season. Best case scenario in this case would be Schafer coming back healthy and proving ready to take over CF mid-season, as McLouth’s D leaves something to be desired out there, and Kemp sure ain’t a great CF.
will36206
October 17th, 2010
8:48 pm
Trade for Hunter Pence. Houston needs pitching we need a outfielder that can hit.
Hank
October 17th, 2010
8:50 pm
What about Coco Crisp for CF and Pat Burrell for LF. Bat Crisp leadoff and Burrell 5th.
PMC
October 17th, 2010
8:51 pm
I bet they are tired of it. Look at the difference though. Philly has MUCH better players. All it takes is money and or time to develop cheap talent.
They have had the same problem for years now. Almost no outfield talent, an aging 3rd basemen who can’t be trusted to play more than about 85 games…. A shortstop…well Frank created the problem at Shortstop so I guess young .240 with potential and an ego and a few errors is better than .240 and no ego but no potential either and a lot of errors.
Either way, Frank did a nice job rebuilding the pitching staff. Now. it remains to be seen if the Braves are willing to spend the money to go get at least 2 big hitters.
The Braves keep signing guys who were good 5 years ago for little cash… That isn’t the formula for winning a playoff series and they know it.
So they can continue and say that they are frustrated… but that’s BS. They know how to fix it. The truth is that the owner doesn’t care about winning and it’s not going to change until they sell the team.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
8:52 pm
They will never install a rule that individuals have to own a team. They never will. Heck, it might even be deemed unconstitutional if they tried!
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
8:52 pm
Liberty has the money to spend on the Braves. If they wanted. Shoot, just the money they saved in the deal, they sould spend $500 mill on the team next year and still be ahead. But, alas, they care nothing about the team and baseball in general. It is an asset to them plain and simple. So, they are going to try and make money off of it…which is their right. But, it is one of the issues with corporate ownership. Of course, then you have owners like in FL and Pitt. But, many studies have come out about how much money each team gets from revenue sharing, tv contracts, etc. Liberty could still raise payroll by probably 20 mill and still break even.
One-Eyed Mac
October 17th, 2010
8:52 pm
DOB, are there any Braves playing in the Dominican Winter League. I a contemplating a trip to catch a couple of games.
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
8:53 pm
Steve, so in that case, I am guessing you want two OFs…cause we don’t want Nate and his phobia of throwing the ball in CF next year, right?
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
8:54 pm
We need a good player that has a chance to be great. To me, that’s someone like Kemp. You know what you are getting with Coco and Pat…
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
8:55 pm
Jason, ideally we’d find a good defensive CF that can hit in the middle of the order. But that ain’t happening!
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
8:56 pm
Steve from OH,
On one hand, I’m not sure what to make of Kemp’s defense. 2 years ago, he won a Gold glove, but last season, his defense appeared to decline rapidly.
It reminds me somewhat of Nate, who won a gold glove 3 years ago, but as we have seen the last 2 seasons, his defense is bad.
Maybe Kemp has a bounceback year defensively. But even if he struggles defensively again, he should still provide 25 HR and 90 RBI.
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
8:58 pm
But yeah, two OF’s would be ideally ideal. But that ain’t happening either, in all likelihood.
We really need Schafer to do work this year.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:00 pm
Steve frm OH – I hope he does, for himself as well as the Braves. I don’t think he can be in the planning for 2011, though.
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
9:01 pm
Steve, agreed. What about a guy like Cody Ross in CF if Kemp was in LF?
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:02 pm
Is there any chance SF DFA’s Ross now?
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
9:02 pm
Also, agreed on Logan…too bad injuries and time missed has caused him to regress. If he continued to progress at the rate we and the team thought, we wouldn’t be having the discussion about a 2nd OF. Logan would be in CF and get someone like Kemp to play LF…case closed!
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:02 pm
Steve, Kemp slid on D last year no doubt, but he has had decent years b4 hasn’t he? My Bill James connection is not working lately to check on my own
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:03 pm
Dodgers are not giving up Kemp for anything short of a few top young arms. If they give him up at all, which I still think is not going to happen
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:03 pm
3rd basemen who can’t be trusted to play more than about 85 games
gross exaggeration
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
9:03 pm
Shoot, didn’t realize Ross was Arb 3 next year. I thought he was a FA.
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
9:05 pm
cabravesfan, you still think that will be there stance after his year last year…both on and off the field? I am not saying it won’t take a top prospect or a JJ to lead the way, but you think they will still ask for what they would have before last year…which would have been a few top arms?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:05 pm
What about a guy like Cody Ross in CF if Kemp was in LF? Jason
that would be nice, but it ain’t happening.
In fact I won’t be surprised if someone on the level of Ross is our only OF addition.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:06 pm
“cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:03 pm
Dodgers are not giving up Kemp for anything short of a few top young arms. If they give him up at all, which I still think is not going to happen”
Are you really sure about that?
Big Jake
October 17th, 2010
9:07 pm
if he was placed on waivers is his arb still in tact?
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
9:08 pm
If we get a big basher for LF, Ross is cool with me. But not as the main acquisition. Don’t know what to make of his defense, as his numbers are up-and-down year-to-year out there. But he looks better than Nate, anyway.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:09 pm
I think it will take a fair bit to get Kemp, there will be other teams interested too. not all that many decent hitting CFers around
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:09 pm
Jake – I don’t think that has anything to do with his arb status, but I’m sure DOB or someone who knows for sure will tell you.
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:10 pm
Jason-
Yes. The off field issue is not as big a deal as it seems to be in other medias, and they certainly don’t have to trade him. He just turned 26 and is not arb eligible until after 2012, and signed to a pretty reasonable deal for next year. The Dodgers can ask for whatever they want (pitching) and if they don’t get it, they don’t have to trade him. And they won’t.
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
9:10 pm
Kemp’s last 3 years in CF:
+5, +2, -15.
What’s up with that?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:10 pm
If we get a big basher for LF, Ross is cool with me. Steve
ain’t happening. Jason, McNate and whomever. let’s just hope whomever is better than Ross
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:11 pm
cabravesfan – we have a back-up QB we’d like to return to you! Interested?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:12 pm
well like hitters, plyers have up and down years in the field too, but that is extreme. my guess is unhappy and not concentrating…another Escobrat mayhaps
anobles10
October 17th, 2010
9:13 pm
Ok, just a note DOB, the 1996 NLCS was actually won in 7 games, as the Braves won game 1, then lost the next three, before storming back to win the next three, while outscoring the Cardinals 32-1 in those three games, including a 14-0 win in game 5, and a 15-0 win in game 7.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:13 pm
Sorry! Your 49ers seem to be have QB issues.
admiral
October 17th, 2010
9:13 pm
DOB, we all know what we’d LIKE to see with McLouth, which would be a return to his old self. But what do you think actually will happen? Think he’s got anything left?
I, for one, think he’s capable of being an all star again and really helping this team…but you would have a more informed opinion than mine, I imagine…
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:13 pm
Steve do they show +/- anywhere else?
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:14 pm
MIBravesFan -
Who is this backup QB of which you speak?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:15 pm
McNates old self is really 255/355/440, but that would be ok
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:15 pm
MIBravesFan -
and we seem to have QB issues?? Dude, that’s putting it nicely! Just this morning I was actually pining for Shaun Hill! Then I cried. But they WON today!
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:15 pm
Hill – but I think he broke his arm today.
JMf
October 17th, 2010
9:15 pm
Medlin will not be ready until 2012. Maybe someone can help me. Why isn’t Infante projected as the starting ss next year. That represents 80 point difference over Gonzalez. Look how long it took for Prado to become the starting 2b. Now on a weak hitting team, the player who led the team in hitting, the player who is averaging 305 for last 3 years and a 240 hitter is projected at ss. Anyone help me understand.
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
9:16 pm
On fangraphs. It’s under “rPM” according to Braveheart.
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
9:17 pm
Yes, certainly am NOT ok with a Ross type being considered the primary pick-up. But, man, as long as I don’t have to see Melky in a Braves uniform…EVER again. I just hate that guy (as a baseball player of course).
CAB, you are certainly correct that they don’t have to trade him. But, if the player and his agent both want a trade…could a package centered around JJ and a Hoover type prospect start conversations? I think so.
JasonInFL
October 17th, 2010
9:18 pm
Steve, weight?
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:18 pm
Well I’m happy for your Niners for you, cabravesfan!
Would have been nice if the flippin Cowboys would have beat the damn Vikings!
Efrim
October 17th, 2010
9:19 pm
I think I would deal, Vizcaino, Beachy and Alex Gonzalez for Rasmus. Am I crazy??? Gibby
IMO? yes you are
Say it ain’t so, nolie. To have Rasmus/Heyward in the same outfield for the next 4+ years, you wouldn’t trade that package of players? I mean, I don’t like giving up AGon because there is no real SS in the org. to replace him and they’d have to go get someone, but you really wouldn’t trade that for a 23 year old kid coming off a .276/.361/.498, 132 OPS+ year? Personally, I don’t really care about his baggage with La Russa. Change of scenery out of STL will help him then, right? And I love Vizcaino and Beachy….and like most all Braves prospects, but I’m doing that deal.
Kat
October 17th, 2010
9:20 pm
Blog was a great read, thanks David.
Steve from OH
October 17th, 2010
9:22 pm
And I love Vizcaino and Beachy….and like most all Braves prospects, but I’m doing that deal.
Me too. I’d try to keep Gonzo out of it, as we need a SS, but I’m signing on that one all day.
Crime Dog
October 17th, 2010
9:23 pm
If you’re keeping track of this #Phillies RISP funk, now up to 0×14 last 3 games, & 3-for-last-31 since 2nd inning of LDS Gm 1. -Jason Stark
Braves offense wasn’t the only one with problems. Nice to see the Phils catching the funk.
wins-by-a-link
October 17th, 2010
9:24 pm
Too much money tied up in a few players who don’t produce, Too little capital being invested by present owners, A farm system that hasen,t produced since Roy Clark departed, Fredi will be a good manager but like Bobby you only get to play with the cards you are delt. Frank Wren may be a good gm, Hard to tell when he has to operate on tight budget but most of the trades he has made have not worked out very well, Don,t look for any improvement in the near future.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:24 pm
….and like most all Braves prospects, but I’m doing that deal. Efrim
thought you might, but I am not as sold on Rasmus as you are I guess, and he is left handed…I know, but I still want a righty. I think that package is too high at this time, but the crazy part was just facetious.
Also Ashley
October 17th, 2010
9:26 pm
What are they going to do with Conrad? And I also wish we’d know something definitely about Chipper. That’s an awful lot of payroll awarded to him that could be spread elsewhere. I love Chipper, I really do. I think he’d be awesome as a hitting coach. But he wasn’t healthy last year (on the DL a lot) even BEFORE the injury in Houston.
Just my thoughts…
lojak777
October 17th, 2010
9:27 pm
DAVE, I hope you read my comment…I think I have possible the answer to the Braves payroll problem and would love your input on it. Baasically, Chipper is putting us in a bind. He HOPES to come back and play at a high level. HE/We won’t know until the middle of spring training–which is certainly too late to go after some top free agents. Chipper must also be keenly aware that we need some hitting badly. He does not need money–at least right now. Under these rather unusual circumstances, could the Braves cut a deal with him to defer say $10 mil for a later time. He will probably need it in several years(he sure as hell doesn’t need it now)–but this will allow the team to really get a high quality guy to get us competing with the big boys. Our pitching is so good, it seems worth a shot. I would not propose that we end up like the Arizona team who mortgaged their entire future on that one world series. Nor should this become a regular occurance. However, under this scenerio I think it’s worth a look ….Your thoughts ??
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
9:27 pm
I would be very disappointed if Ross was our only OF addition, especially since he seems up and down. But I would be okay with him and Nate platooning in CF, IF we land a legit OF. i dont see that happening though.
It has been speculated that if we wanted to get Rasmus for StL, it might take Craig Kimbrel, Arodys Vizcaino, and Omar Infante (one year until free agency).
What would it take to get to get Kemp?
rainman34
October 17th, 2010
9:27 pm
Trade for hart from mil for left, maybe minor then trade for Raji Davis form oak. Line up
Davis
prado
heyward
McCann
Hart
Jones
Freeman
Gonzo
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:27 pm
MIBravesFan -
He did break his arm…but I’d still take him back. It was his left arm- he can still throw passes!
I decided that the cowboys/vikings game was #1 on my “games that I would rather remove my eyes with a fork then watch” AND my “root for the snipers!” list for the season. It’s going to be a hard one to top…
Bravesfan54
October 17th, 2010
9:27 pm
My biggest fear – one, I suspect, that is not generally shared, is that Freddie Freeman is not the 1B ’saviour’ as envisioned. Jason Heyward pretty much met expectations (or did he, I ask ominously?), and the year before we ‘bought into’ Jordan Shafer – who was a bust (and, no I don’t wanna hear about his wrist- that’s on him, not us). So, my thought is that we keep Hinkske for insurance. (I really would want Lee, but I hear the crowd assembling). Re-signing Gonzalez is a given -(what?, you want Yunel back?) He’ll do better as a “Brave” next year. Diaz is a sentimental favorite: he raked one year, and has been serviceaable in all years. He is expendable, and I say that reluctantly, since he has such potential. (Scratch that: his thumb will be fully healed!).
Chipper has to be fill the role of a Billy Wagner, but, expectations need to be seriously curtailed. But an infield of Jones/Prado/Infante/Freeman has a 50/50 probability of success/failure.
Now to pitching. Change little or nothing. (What, you say – even Kawakami?) Yes KK is salvageble, as he has something to prove. Bavedon please, understand that there is huge difference between expectation and performance. KK was dismissed early – and I cannot for life of me understand why McClouth – who is owed the same money (mol) is still being projected, while KK is rejected. (KK pisses me off so badly – not in his w/l – but in his pitch count – DUUUUDe you can’t let the batters see 56 pitches in 3 innings!!!!!).
Anyhow – and I say this realistically, after 56 seasons of watching my “beloved” team: we need to be looking for 2012 when we begin to own the ML for years to come! I absolutley mean this: I, who remember Rabbit Maranville!
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:28 pm
Isn’t the most intricate part of a trade who gives up which prospects for the player the team making the trade wants? Truly high stakes poker.
PMC
October 17th, 2010
9:30 pm
you’ve done a great job of illustrating everything DOB… unfortunately the picture you have to paint is pretty drab and uninspiring.
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:31 pm
JasonInFL -
I don’t think either Kemp or his agent have expressed desire for a trade, but he is still under team control. But yes, if the Braves offered JJ, maybe a guy like Mike Dunn, AND another prospect, the Dodgers listen. But I think it would take way too much to make it worth wile from the Braves side. Despite the issues, which really are not as major as they seem, the Dodgers are very high on Kemp.
PMC
October 17th, 2010
9:32 pm
They should be asking begging… pleading Nate McClouth to re structure that money for like 10 years.
Dude isn’t going to be in baseball past this contract anyway so maybe he’ll like a good structured retirement plan eh?
Steve McP
October 17th, 2010
9:32 pm
Beware of over-paying for young guys, last year the Kung Fu Panda was the Giants star, this year he is benched.
Look at the McLouth experience, looked like a good deal when we got him and then he bombs.
I would prefer a more experienced guy, especially if we are going to give up a lot of talent.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:33 pm
“cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:27 pm
MIBravesFan -
He did break his arm…but I’d still take him back. It was his left arm- he can still throw passes!
I decided that the cowboys/vikings game was #1 on my “games that I would rather remove my eyes with a fork then watch” AND my “root for the snipers!” list for the season. It’s going to be a hard one to top…”
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:34 pm
JJ does not have all that much trade value right now. too many question marks. no GM trading an impact player like Kemp is gonna put a lot of faith in Jj right now. It will take some additions from the Braves
Steve McP
October 17th, 2010
9:36 pm
It is interesting that Fox is not showing the tracker box for the “strikes” being thrown by Oswalt, they look further off of the plate than the balls called on Sanchez.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:36 pm
y’all are aware that the union has to sign off on any major restructurings right? They don’t agree to them unless it actually advances the player in the long run
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:38 pm
nolie – the thing is they really need starting pitching. They also have budget issues, don’t they? How much more would is really take?
Mixxo
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
Phillies….looking a lot like us at the dish.
Bravefaninok
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
Also Ashley
October 17th, 2010
9:26 pm
What are they going to do with Conrad?
Frank Wren said in interview on XM Conrad did his job (bench player,spot starter) extremely well and he would be back in that role .
Gibby
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
So if we traded Vizcaino, Beachy and Gonzalez for Rasmus It opens up SS for Infante. I don’t feel the need to add a SS
Efrim
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
thought you might, but I am not as sold on Rasmus as you are I guess, and he is left handed…I know, but I still want a righty.
It’d be great if he was right handed, and I do believe that it would be a risk to have four lefties in the lineup who don’t hit for as much power against LHP(McCann, Heyward, Rasmus, presumably Freeman). But if there was ever a time to trade our minor league pitching depth for a young, controllable stud outfielder, it would be now. At least that’s how I feel about Colby. I also like Kemp too, just not as much because he is a free agent in two years and is coming off a bad year from the plate and the field.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
it
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
MIBravesFan-
Thanks but we are NOT married!
We like you too
Gary O
October 17th, 2010
9:40 pm
cabravesfan,
This is what Kemp’s agent said, in an nbcsports article.
“It’s almost like it’s open season on Matt, and it’s not right. It’s a bunch of back-seat crap. I’m almost to the point–and maybe so are the Dodgers–where I’m thinking that this just isn’t going to work.
The Dodgers have gaps on this team, and maybe they could fill them by trading Matt. It could be good for the team, and good for the player.”.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:40 pm
Go Giants!
Efrim
October 17th, 2010
9:40 pm
DOB – thanks for the new blog
Gibby
October 17th, 2010
9:43 pm
When San Fran got Ross on waivers the intial reports had that they would not arbitration. I do think the Braves can get 2 outfielders.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:43 pm
“cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
MIBravesFan-
Thanks but we are NOT married!
We like you too ”
Well as your parents have probably already told you many times – you ought to be!
brian
October 17th, 2010
9:43 pm
Rasmus and Braun have to be our top two targets. Whether we can get a deal done or not who knows?
Gibby
October 17th, 2010
9:44 pm
Kemp would be my choice over Rasmus.
JonnyVenter'sLeftArm
October 17th, 2010
9:44 pm
There’s Cody Ross again…
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:44 pm
yes they can use pitching, but right now JJ is a big question mark, not a solid asset like b4, at least to another team. I mean they trade Kemp for JJ and he does not come back healthy, or comes back but pitches more to his peripherals than he previously has. hows that gonna go over in LaLa land?
Crime Dog
October 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
What planet is the sky on Cody Ross’ planet?
john
October 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
McClouth– KK- Melky–Ankiel- even Troy Glaus with his bad knees– were bust acquisitions by Frank Wren and were symptomatic of the Braves approach–cheap and temporary. The failure at these positions cost the Braves dearly. The answer is to fire Frank Wren and sell the club to a new owner who has the burning desire to win.
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
Ross is continuing to drive up his asking price this off season.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
Thats it we need CODY ROSS!
Bravefaninok
October 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
cody ross will be nlcs mvp!
MikeInFl
October 17th, 2010
9:46 pm
My biggest fear – one, I suspect, that is not generally shared, is that Freddie Freeman is not the 1B ’saviour’ as envisioned. – Bravesfan54
I for one do not anticipate Freeman being anything other than solid defensively. He’ll be 21 years old and has always struggled when moving to a new level.
Braves got .248/.346/.422 with 23 HR and 89 RBI out of the 1B position in 2010. I don’t expect those kind of numbers out of Freddie in 2011.
All the more reason we need to upgrade the OF.
Anyone who is counting on a rookie to be our “savior” is begging to be disappointed.
Efrim
October 17th, 2010
9:46 pm
I know Wren is going to acquire players to fill these holes, but as of right now, it’s crazy to think that we don’t know who is going to be starting in the field for 2012 at CF, LF, SS, and 3B. Of course, it’s the start of the offseason prior to 2011, but still, not a lot of prospects at those positions who will be close by the start of the 2012 season – unless you’re a Pastornicky fan. Not that this is a big concern, because some teams end up having to patchwork it at spots, but just something that I thought about….
MitchC
October 17th, 2010
9:46 pm
Dave, we need a big bat, period. The regular season and postseason proved we are fine with pitching, both starrting, and relief,. but.. we need to get one more big bat, or we wont score enough runs.
Not to.. but.. one correction to something you said. The Braves actually were eliminated from the 1999 World Series at the old Yankee Stadium, in Game Four, to complete the sweep. The WS opened in Atlanta that year, and the Braves lost Games One and Two at home, and then Games Three and Four at Yankee Stadium, to lose the Series.
dap01
October 17th, 2010
9:46 pm
I hope that Wren don’t repeat the history of the past two years and wait and wait and then sign the cheapest off the bottom of the barrell. We were told one thing last year only to find out later that he really did not have any money to spend and the payroll would IN FACT go down.
I hope Wren suprises me. We only have to fill two positions. We only have to have to fill TWO positions. Can’t we do better than getting what is left over at the end of the winter?
cabravesfan
October 17th, 2010
9:47 pm
Gary O -
Ah- hadn’t seen that…still would be more surprised if it happens then I would to see Kemp a Dodger next year.
MIBravesfan-
Yeah, I think we are just fine for the time being
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
9:47 pm
Should have gotten Cody Ross instead of Ankiel
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:47 pm
I do think the Braves can get 2 outfielders. Gibby
maybe, but not of that price. they will either offer him a contract now or his late season heroics will drive his price up quite a bit. It’s not like it takes place in a vacuum, there are always other teams looking for the same tools and bidding against you. I hope you are right, but I bet you aren’t.
Mr. Baseball
October 17th, 2010
9:48 pm
It’s amusing that the futility of this team in the post season has been unspoken until the icon has finally left the dugout. If he had been called out for these failures during his reign, maybe he would have been canned years ago when it could have made a difference.
JonnyVenter'sLeftArm
October 17th, 2010
9:49 pm
Brian, why would the Brew Crew trade Braun? Because he runs his mouth from time to time?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:50 pm
sigh
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
9:50 pm
Jerry Crasnick: “Mike Fontenot is making Brooks Conrad look like Brooks Robinson “
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:50 pm
Melky and Beachy for Braun???
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:51 pm
Mike Fontenot is making Brooks Conrad look like Brooks Robinson “
ouch!!! what a slam
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:51 pm
“Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
Ross is continuing to drive up his asking price this off season.”
The thing is, he’s only arb eligible, he’s not a FA. No chance SF DFA’s him. No chance.
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
9:53 pm
I mean the asking price on the trade market. I agree that SF will probably keep him.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
9:53 pm
I agree MIBF, if he is still arb eligible after all this they will likely keep him
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
9:58 pm
I’m signing off to go watch that AMC show Nolie doesn’t care much for. Go Giants! Take care all!
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:00 pm
cya MIBF,. have fun, though why you would rather waste your time watching that show than talk to Moe and me is beyond understanding
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
10:08 pm
nolie, I am agreeing with your assessment of our likely OF options–one bat and not much better than Ross. Do you picture the fourth outfielder to be someone currently in house or picking up someone from outside? Do we non-tender Diaz and then negotiate something?
I may be having to head out in a few minutes. Getting tired of grading and will have to do some cooking.
Reid Adair
October 17th, 2010
10:10 pm
Best way to not be planning and still be playing? Get Frank Wren out of the Braves’ organization. Get someone in there who can get players here to help this team get to the World Series. Wren’s recent additions – Kenshin Kawakami, Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera, Derrek Lee, Rick Ankiel – did very little to help the Braves in 2010.
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
10:13 pm
Lee’s numbers with Atlanta were much better than we had been getting out of first: .287/.384/.465/.849. That and the improved defense there made him well worth the pick up.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:14 pm
I’m off for a bit too Moe. what you gonna cook for us? bon appetit!
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:15 pm
yeah on Lee Moe. too bad we caint afford him as Freeman’s partner and mentor and bench guy
VOL
October 17th, 2010
10:17 pm
Game 4 of the 99 series was at Yankee Stadium? I watched us lose the first two at the Ted. Am i wrong?
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
10:17 pm
nolie, I agree. Would like him around for another year. But I agree–too expensive.
Cooking–very minimal tonight (last night was much more elaborate. Just a stir fry.
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
October 17th, 2010
10:17 pm
Thanks for the new blog Chief, it’s a ton of stuff to chew on.
2010 went bust but not before they overachieved and made the playoffs. So (2011 or Bust) is ancient history.
I still say the Braves will explore the option of trading Derek Lowe, for many reasons.
Number one being payroll, and second that the young pitching is in my opinion, stacked up and ready to go. Third, Lowe just had a hell of a finish to his season and selling high makes sense. Fourth, we all know Wren tried his damnest to unload Derek Lowe last off season. Fifth, Lowe would bring in three or four players in return which the Braves could use in the outfield, infield, bullpen, bench, minors, etc.
Simply put, there are more reasons than not to trade him.
Mixxo
October 17th, 2010
10:18 pm
Ross almost hits another one out.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:23 pm
almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and hydrogen bombs
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:24 pm
with Medlen out and JJ questionable I will be surprised if they trade any established starters.
tiger297
October 17th, 2010
10:29 pm
hit him in the face…victorino that is
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:33 pm
I’m a Vic fan myself
wayn-o
October 17th, 2010
10:35 pm
package Jurjens & Mclouth for an outfielder.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
10:36 pm
we dont need pitchers. we need HITTERS!
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:36 pm
an injured pitcher and a guy who just hit 200?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:37 pm
I agree bama. did you see my apology?
bruce
October 17th, 2010
10:38 pm
Dave, thanks for the encouraging news/thoughts/perspective. Helpful, hopeful, timely. You are the man. Bruce
Mixxo
October 17th, 2010
10:39 pm
What I’d do for just one “Victorino” on our team. Guy plays baseball.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
10:39 pm
yes
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:41 pm
he’s an old-school, hard nosed player IMO
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:42 pm
good
bigstack19
October 17th, 2010
10:42 pm
Talking about the elimination games at the Ted, in 1999 they lost game 4 to the Yankees in New York. They lost the first 2 in Atlanta. Now for the outfield, maybe the new hitting coach fixes McClouth. I bet Diaz sees time at first next year along with Prado to get Infante in the lineup. Chipper will start at third because he is Chipper whether or not he deserves to start. If Heyward continues to get better and Freeman gives us 20 hrs and 80 rbi and McCann plays like he always does the offense could actually be better without a big name outfielder. I would like to see Nick Markakis and/or Colby Rasmus in Atlanta next season. I hope Hinske is back. I have high hopes for next season. Sometimes change can spark a team as things become stagnant over time and Gonzalez is more aggressive with stolen bases and hit and runs trying to manufacture runs.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
10:42 pm
where on the same team. just diff ideas and thats okay.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:44 pm
well I was trying to be funny, but when I reread it that’s not how it sounded
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:46 pm
and Gonzalez is more aggressive with stolen bases and hit and runs trying to manufacture runs.
good luck on that, the Gonzo we saw is the real Gonzo with a bat, very close to his career numbers,
Cody Ross hit 3 hrs
October 17th, 2010
10:46 pm
Philly opening up lead 6 to 1 in 7th. Giants bull pen has let them down.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:48 pm
oops you meant Fredi
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:49 pm
be a minor miracle if the Giants win IMO
o-me
October 17th, 2010
10:50 pm
Gonzo was a D- in my book. Not the player he was billed as and don’t like him coming back.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
10:50 pm
wasnt to impressed with gonzo. He swings at to many bad balls.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:53 pm
Not the player he was billed as o-me
maybe not, it depends on who you listened to I guess, but he was exactly the player he has always been except for that 3 month aberration in Toronto this year where they dang near broke the MLB record for team homers out of the blue. musta had PEDs in the water supply up thar
McFann O O – 6
October 17th, 2010
10:53 pm
Victorino is annoying…
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:54 pm
ah you is pre-juiced
Shot Thru the Lockhart
October 17th, 2010
10:57 pm
Victorino is the biggest tool in the toolbox. We could find guys that play hard, but don’t make fools of themselves every time a (correct) call doesn’t go their way. If I had one dollar for every time i’ve seen Victorino take an obvious called third strike and then start making his way to first as the umpire rung him up, I’d have been able to put another twenty in the offering plate at church today. And I never watch the Phils unless they’re playing the Braves so I can only assume he does that when he’s playing other teams too.
scottbravesfan
October 17th, 2010
10:58 pm
Atlanta is the 8th largest market in the country and the best they can produce is a 90 million dollar payroll? Seriously Atlanta get out and support your team. If they didn’t have to do THREE buy one get one free ticket days at the Ted then maybe they could go out and get a Jason Werth to play the outfield instead of some guy who is about to retire and will get hurt in May.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:59 pm
oh no, not another attendance tirade
ryan c
October 17th, 2010
10:59 pm
a couple of things: 1. you forgot to mention david ross in the guaranteed money
2. the braves didnt trade for kawakami
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
11:02 pm
Ide have to agree with scottsbrave fan.
Bama Brave
October 17th, 2010
11:05 pm
um the breave didnt trade for kawakimi geez. they signed him.
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:07 pm
look what I’m reading……. http://www.ehow.com/how_4472112_become-baseball-general-manager.html
How to become a GM anyone interested?
McFann O O – 6
October 17th, 2010
11:07 pm
nolie ah you is pre-juiced
Me is. But me always no likey him…even ‘fore he did what he did in 2008…
Shot Thru the Lockhart If I had one dollar for every time i’ve seen Victorino take an obvious called third strike and then start making his way to first as the umpire rung him up, I’d have been able to put another twenty in the offering plate at church today.
Hahahaha! No kidding…
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
October 17th, 2010
11:07 pm
Adios Giants….just another stepping stone for the Phillies third consecutive WS appearance.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:07 pm
there are a bunch s of reasons why the attendance at Atlanta is not as high as in the northeast. they have been discussed here ad nauseum and nothing is gonna change. it went up this year but I doubt it influences LM’s decision on budget much, no matter the attendance figures they could afford to sink a lot more money into the team if they wanted to
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:08 pm
Here is an article (admittedly a bit old) about a study that determined that baseball market size was irrelevant to outcomes.
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/1999/08/09/story6.html
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:11 pm
no kidding Moe, look at the Cubs for the last 100+ years
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
11:15 pm
nolie
October 17th, 2010
10:00 pm
cya MIBF,. have fun, though why you would rather waste your time watching that show than talk to Moe and me is beyond understanding ”
Well I guess I’m just not that smart . . . .
Playoffs!!!!
October 17th, 2010
11:15 pm
DOB–In your opinion, will the following players be back in 2011: Melky Cabrera, Matt Diaz and Eric O’Flaherty.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 17th, 2010
11:16 pm
Hey Coach – re: your comment about Lowe
I think Lowe earned the right to stay here next season with his down the stretch performance and his postseason performance.
Whether he does or doesn’t, is a totally different story, with the GM that’s in the FO!!
Hobo
October 17th, 2010
11:17 pm
scottbravesfan and Bama Brave, How many games did yall go to this past season?
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:17 pm
Yep, on the Cubs. Wrigley is packed but it does not lead to a World Series championship. Toronto is a huge city but the Blue Jays have not been much since the early 90s. The Mets have had some lean years despite huge payroll and being in NYC; they just have the two WS championships, and their last one was 25 years ago.
Playoffs!!!!
October 17th, 2010
11:19 pm
Oh yeah, DOB, thanks for the new blog. It was worth waiting for.
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:19 pm
MIBravesFan–How was Mad Men? I have only seen one episode so don’t know much about it. Some students brought it up in class the other day to make some point. I followed the point but did not get the allusion.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:20 pm
or maybe you’re just smarter than either of us MIBF
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:21 pm
Playoffs!!!! you can definitely count Eric O’Flaherty coming back……..Diaz I think you can expect him coming back but they’ll have to non-tender him and then work out a deal……………Melky he is gone wayyyyy gone
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:21 pm
nolie–I think I agree with that.
Venice Jim
October 17th, 2010
11:23 pm
MIBravesFan – enjoy the AMC show?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:23 pm
wonder if the Yankees will pick melkey back up?
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:24 pm
Tomas–I agree on EOF, am pretty sure on the Diaz scenario, and on Melky making his way elsewhere. What is your take on Hinske? Before reading the blog, I would have given him a bit more of a chance. But FW’s point on FF being LH and Hinske also being LH, I am less certain on his prospects. Any thoughts on how they wind out the bullpen?
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:25 pm
The Yankees might sign both Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:25 pm
I Think that is one of DOB’s faves. I gotta admit they have the time period down pretty pat
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:26 pm
Melky will do better in the AL. He can bat ninth and still have a good bat behind him, ensuring that he gets pitches. He had Derek Jeter batting behind him in NY. Certainly made him look better than when he had a pitcher behind him.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:26 pm
I pretty much assumed Hinske would be replaced with a RHed version, but too early to be sure
Venice Jim
October 17th, 2010
11:27 pm
nolie – relating back to a comment from last night – did you enjoy Agent Sarah Walker’s preparation for the trip to Costa Brava on last week’s Chuck
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:29 pm
Moe Berg, I know the Braves need right handed bats, but the job Hinske did this year was amazing. He is the best pinch hitter out there, can play multiple positions, and is great on the clubhouse…….If it were me I’d bring him bat, and I’d try to find a starting outfielder that hits for power and is right handed(not very easy with this mediocre FA market and no money).
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:29 pm
nolie, that is what I would guess. Last year, they went after Gload before Hinske, but they still came up with a LH utility player in Hinske. Whom would you consider to be a RH version of a multi-position bench player that might be available?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:29 pm
I don’t usually watch a series til the season is over Jim, so I missed that. but it gives me something intriguing to look forward to. I think she is a hottie
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
11:29 pm
“Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:19 pm
MIBravesFan–How was Mad Men? I have only seen one episode so don’t know much about it. Some students brought it up in class the other day to make some point. I followed the point but did not get the allusion.”
I don’t think I can explain it. I have no idea what they meant.
My dad had a half brother who was an ad guy in NYC in the early 60s. My Mom said he looked so much like Dad they could have been twins. I watch this show, and I think of both of them.
Venice Jim
October 17th, 2010
11:31 pm
nolie – you should definitely be looking forward (I’ve suffered innumerable pokes from the person to my right while typing that to you)…
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:32 pm
don’t have a name in mind Moe, too early, but there will be guys DFAed who started on other teams most likely. and of course they might decide to keep him… but I think they gotta find a RHed hitting 1BM to help out Freeman
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:32 pm
Tomas–While I agree with all that Hinske provides, who plays first against a tough LHP? Who will spell Freeman? I know that Hinske has historically played both corners in the infield and outfield, but I am guessing that his weight is more than it used to be. Other than first and the spot start in LF, where else can he competently play? I like him as a bench player but would like him a lot more if he was RH.
Playoffs!!!!
October 17th, 2010
11:33 pm
Tomas—I agree with you on EOF probably being back. I am not so sure Diaz will return. He’s 35 now, his numbers took a big dip. As for Melky, I don’t know.
I know I go against just about everybody on the blog because I think he is valuable. He can play every outfield position(as opposed to Diaz, who can only fplay left) , and he has an excellent arm (although I admit he is not as good defensively as I thought he was). Plus he can switch hit
Venice Jim
October 17th, 2010
11:33 pm
MIBravesFan – but, more to the point, how about Don’s big announcement?
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:35 pm
I watch this show, and I think of both of them. MIBF
well that definitely tops even Moe ‘n’ me
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
11:36 pm
VJ –
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:37 pm
my guess is the only way Melkey stays is if he agrees to sign after being DFAed. There are any number of players who will be around that are as good or better and won’t cost what he will.he was pretty much what I said he would be, not much
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:38 pm
Moe Berg, How did Freeman fare against lefties?
scottbravesfan
October 17th, 2010
11:39 pm
You know how in most cities you get a bandwagon effect? Like Chicago this year with the Blackhawks or Philadelphia with the Phillies? Where attendance is bad and then the team starts winning and the stadium is then filled with “die hard” fans? That doesn’t happen in Atlanta. I don’t understand it. It happened with the Braves in 1992 and 1993 but since then it hasn’t happen with the Falcons winning in 2008 or the Hawks or even when the Thrashers made the playoffs in 2007. It’s so weird. The Braves have a strong core of fans throughout the south east that come and support the team on the weekends and during the summer. Just wish a few more in the actual city of Atlanta would come out and yes I know Atlanta’s traffic sucks and the city if full of transplants. But so are a lot of other cities, and they still come out for their team’s especially if they are winning. Atlanta needs more bandwagon fans.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
11:40 pm
Sorry Nolie and Moe and Venice Jim – I wonder what happened to
Uncle “Dick” (Richard).
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
11:46 pm
I’m not at my best right now. But you are the bloggers who understand that and show your strength of spirit.
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:48 pm
He had a .275 average with a .425 slugging against lefties in AAA for Freeman that’s pretty decent considering his age…….I think Wren doesn’t want a platoon, he thinks Freeman would be ready in every way or he wouldn’t have announced that Freeman would be the starting 1B for next year…..
If he simply doesn’t do well, I guess you could use Prado at 1B and Infante at 2B.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:49 pm
sorry you are upset, and sorry i teased you about the show
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:50 pm
….I think Wren doesn’t want a platoon, he thinks Freeman would be ready in every way or he wouldn’t have announced that Freeman would be the starting 1B for next year….. Tomas
not a full platoon, but he did mention, and i think they need, a RHed hitter to spell him sometimes
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:51 pm
He had a .275 average with a .425 slugging against lefties in AAA Tomas
where did you find that Tomas??
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:52 pm
Tomas, he only had 3 AB against lefties after he came up. Hardly anything resembling a sample size, so I just don’t know how he does against LHP. But as nolie said, I also think that they will want a RH bat to back him up.
MIBravesFan
October 17th, 2010
11:53 pm
SB wherever you are – I know that the “Brothers In Arms” episdoe was the same one I was thinking of! There is never . . . .
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:53 pm
Tomas, I am not talking about a platoon. Just a back player for 1B. I would think they would want that person to be RH.
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:53 pm
Maybe Xavier Nady, or teach Matt Diaz to play 1B……..Don’t forget Prado and Infante play almost every position
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:54 pm
nolie it was very dificult since milb doesn’t have them anymore……http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3898984-a-primer-before-freddie-freemans-arrival/
look in the comments below
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:55 pm
Tomas, just looked up his current numbers. In his 2 AB against lefties in the AFL–he has 0-fer. Again, not a sample size.
Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:56 pm
MIBravesFan–That sounds like a very good reason to watch a show. A few weeks back, my uncle was out to visit me. I was astounded at how much he was reminding me of my grandfather. Nostalgia is very potent.
Tomas
October 17th, 2010
11:57 pm
Moe Berg He had a .275 average with a .425 slugging against lefties in AAA Gwinett
Playoffs!!!!
October 17th, 2010
11:59 pm
Can David Ross play a little first base and spell Freeman against a lefty once in a while? I’d like to see us leave Prado at second base full time and stop moving him around so much. It would be better for us defensively. And of course we need to get better there.
nolie
October 17th, 2010
11:59 pm
thanx Tomas. it is very hard to find splits for minor league players. usually only the last team is available and since that was Atlanta I had no success with the minor league sites. good to know those numbers, they aren’t bad for his age at that level
Trey
October 18th, 2010
12:00 am
Darn it DOB, you ruined the goal to 100 pages on your old blog!!
All we needed were some of Mitchell’s whining or N8s essays and we could have gotten there in no time. Just kidding, thank you for the new blog anyway!
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:01 am
Moe Berg – that was a great show to watch! Trust me!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:01 am
I’d like to see them allow Marteeen to stay in one place too. his numbers are better than when he moves around, and first is one of his weaker positions
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
12:02 am
Ross or McCann could would be awesome if they learned a little 1B…..I just don’t want them to get injured while learning to play the position
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:04 am
I’d just as soon see Mac concentrate on his catching D and not worry about first at this point. He is not as bad as some on here claim, but he does get sloppy in his mechanics at times.
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
12:04 am
Tomas–I just read through the link you provided and saw the numbers. I was only seeing his numbers in Atlanta and AFL. I hope he does as well against lefties this next year. However, seeing Jason getting exposed this year, when we were hanging all of our hopes on him, I don’t want to see it happen again. I want them both to contribute. I just don’t want us to expect a pair of 21 year olds to carry the weight of the team.
Trey
October 18th, 2010
12:05 am
Anyway, I am just kidding DOB, Mitchell and N8. Good night everyone.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:07 am
anybody here ever watch Human Target? It’s prolly too lowbrow for most but I find it amusing in an action/comedy kinda way
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
12:08 am
I agree with having Mac just focus on catching. We are paying him too much to be a back 1B. Also, if we non-tender Diaz, who is the emergency catcher? We don’t want to expend a catcher at 1B, while the back up is behind the plate and suddenly need another catcher.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
12:09 am
McCann is pretty good at D when he gets rest, he was pretty good in the playoff’s after getting 3 days off.
But because the Braves depend on his offense so much he doesn’t get as many days off as other catchers, and his defense suffers.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:10 am
Moe
Not to worry, we have Brooks Conrad who can catch……..maybe?
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
12:10 am
Tomas– I think Ross or McCann have a much better chance of being injured if they’re catching. And I just wonder what kind of offensive numbers McCann could put up if could play another position and played 150-160 games, and didn’t have to take the beating and nagging injuries all catcher suffer.
He used to be a .300 hitter. I don’t know if his batting average drop is due to the wear and tear of being a catcher or the fact he chases so many bad pitches. I suspect it’s the latter.
Oh yeah, and Matt Diaz needs to go. A part-time player needs to more versatile than he is.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:10 am
yeah the mechanics could at least partly be fatigue
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:12 am
ah man, Mattie is the ultimate team guy. I thought that counted a lot here on the ol’ blog
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:12 am
“Moe Berg
October 17th, 2010
11:56 pm
MIBravesFan–That sounds like a very good reason to watch a show. A few weeks back, my uncle was out to visit me. I was astounded at how much he was reminding me of my grandfather. Nostalgia is very potent.:
Thank you!
Brave4life
October 18th, 2010
12:13 am
This blog still runs even before the off-season officially begins
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:13 am
will Connie still be on the team? he ain’t all that much at anything except he hit well late this year but that is not really a proven repeatable skill
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
12:14 am
Human Target is pretty good.
Justified, Vampire Diaries, The Big bang theory, two and a half men, Smallville, and Chuck are my favorites since Lost and Prision Break ended.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:14 am
Ross has never played a single inning that I can tell anywhere except catcher. I don’t recall Mac ever doing anything else either.
We can find a RH bat to spell Freeman.
Moe
It would be nice to have a bit less pressure on a couple of 21 year olds, but it is what it is. Better than them being both 38 year olds, I guess.
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
12:15 am
If Brian McCann were on an A.L. team where he could catch half the time and DH the other half, his numbers would be around .300/ 30HRs/110RBI
Nobleman
October 18th, 2010
12:15 am
Great blog DOB-I have been a Braves fan since they played in Milwakee, and lived past the dredful 70s. The 90s were so exciting. Now the 2000+ can be great, with the right moves, who was the scout who checked out Melky, I hate it when good $$$$ are wasted on a unmotiveted ballplayer. Great pic of the 2 ballparks together, also have lived in Ga, now back in NY after 2 strokes, Will die a BRAVES fan.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:15 am
Not much on Vampire Diaries. too emo for me I guess. I like True Blood a lot better. Love Chuck
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:17 am
way to hang in there Noble. us old f@rts gotta stick together as Braves fans
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:18 am
nolie
Good point on BC. Some folks on the national level were saying he’d never be able to come back to Atlanta, but after than ovation I don’t think the fans will be his biggest issue. His glove and bat will determine how many more seasons he gets in ATL.
Love the guy, but you gotta be able to play.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:18 am
the Yanks will likely need a catcher about the time Mac’s contract runs out
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:20 am
@Nobleman
also have lived in Ga, now back in NY after 2 strokes, Will die a BRAVES fan.
Just hope you hang on long enough to get another Braves World Series title.
Venice Jim
October 18th, 2010
12:20 am
nolie – we are Human Target fans…
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:21 am
Speaking of Yankees catching, Posada sure has looked weak behind the plate so far.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:22 am
Human Target? Is that on the FoxNews channel?
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:23 am
I’m not a Connie fan really, I don’t think he is much of a player , but he is scrappy I gotta admit that. he was important getting us into the post season this year and I appreciate that a lot.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:24 am
thats a law that we gun nuts are trying to get passed DS. So many bulls eyes and you get a real life runner to play with
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:24 am
nolie
Those sort of players oft times are “one and done”.
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
12:24 am
When does Mac’s contract run out? Didn’t he delay being a free agent by signing a multi-year deal here. An A.L. team like the Yankees or Red Sox would give him $25 million a year–no doubt in my mind. Imagine McCann hitting at Yankee Stadium with that short porch in right.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:26 am
yeah often have short careers DS, the magic is a sample size thing that eventually goes away
Fins and Chins
October 18th, 2010
12:26 am
What’s the problem here? Lame Braves fans have been ok with losing under Booby for years.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
12:26 am
Matty will stay on the team. His performance isn’t the best, he can be very productive vs lefties but he can’t play more than one position which really hurts his performance. If he learns 1B it would be awesome……..But he is coming back, because as nolie said he is the ultimate team player, and if he leaves, it would be devastating for team chemistry because I think everybody loves him in that clubhouse.
At the very least he would be an excellent pinch hitter vs lefties late in the game. a 2yr 3 M deal would be fair in my opinion but as I said he needs to get non-tendered or else arb will rise his salary over 3M per yr for a financially challenged club that is trying to find resources to acquire a big bat.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:27 am
2012 with an option for ‘13 I think Platoffs
Fins and Chins
October 18th, 2010
12:28 am
No. but Human Idiot is on CNN.
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
12:29 am
DS1–Certainly better than a couple of 39 year olds. (There, we are getting basically to my age.) I agree that is where we find ourselves. Thus, I want another bat. Someone, with a few more years that can be expected to produce power.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:29 am
a loveable troll sighting? how lucky
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
12:29 am
True Blood I like also, pretty radical but very entertaining
Fins and Chins
October 18th, 2010
12:30 am
Bring back steroids.
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:30 am
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:13 am
will Connie still be on the team? he ain’t all that much at anything except he hit well late this year but that is not really a proven repeatable skil”
Of course he will! He can hit off the bench!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:30 am
good idea F&C
Mitchell
October 18th, 2010
12:31 am
Think about that: It will have been a decade since they last made it to the league championship series when Gonzalez tries to guide Braves back there in his first season at the helm in 2011. A decade.
Uh yeah, I’ve definitely thought about that. More than once.
Is this really the headline by the way?
Braves tired of planning while others play for pennant
Tired of planning while others play for the pennant. That’s a shame.
How about don’t f***ing lose next time? Ever think of that?
DOB must have got his old baseball encyclopedia out for this blog.
No doubt about it. The Braves know how to lose in the playoffs like no other. I guess he wasn’t quite up to date on just how much misery and disappointment Bobby Cox doled out to Braves fans all those years. Year after year. After year.
It’s kind of ridiculous to think Fredi Gonzalez, if given four of five seasons to work with this team, can’t far exceed what Bobby achieved (or didn’t) in the five years since the Braves last won the NL East.
The bar is pretty damn low at this point.
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
12:33 am
Tomas–Matt Diaz is too one-dimensional. Now, if he does learn to play first base, that changes things. But even a $1.5 million/yr to play left field against leftys. No. And payroll and talent trump chemistry every time.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:33 am
Of course he will! He can hit off the bench! MIBF
like I said, not a proven repeatable skill, especially for a 240/250 hitter. more related to small sample size than anything else. He’ll be around if he has a good spring I guess, but as DS said those kinda guys are often gone quickly. we’ll see
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
12:33 am
Surprising ending to Mad Men, sort of a fitting finale for thoroughly enjoyable season that had a lot of unexpected twists. But not the cliffhanger sort of episode I’d expected.
Good to see Betty so shellshocked by Don’s big annoucement. She’s easy on the eyes, but for me her character’s always been the least likeable one on the show, or right up there with Pete and his wife.
Anyone been watching Rubicon? I got behind during the baseball season, but almost caught up now on DVR. That series is finally getting to some intriguing twists. It was so slow at first, but so well-written and acted that I stayed with it. Glad I did.
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:35 am
I’m signing off! Take care alll!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:36 am
And payroll and talent trump chemistry every time. playoffs
for the most part I agree, but not necessarily on a borderline team
Fins and Chins
October 18th, 2010
12:36 am
We need to go back to the days when Players had to work in the offseason to make ends meet.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:36 am
night MIBF. see ya later.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:38 am
Rubicon is good
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:41 am
I guess I am not “with it” as far as TV goes. If it’s not sports, the news or food channel, I don’t watch a lot.
Seem most of the Criminal Minds so far; and Law and Order Criminal Intent.
Diners, Drive-in’s and Dives are at the top of my list, with Man v Food running a close second.
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
12:42 am
DOB– Have you ever seen “Men of a Certain Age” on TBS? Great show. Second season starts December 6.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:42 am
Some of that History Channel stuff is good too……..
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:42 am
“David O’Brien
October 18th, 2010
12:33 am
Surprising ending to Mad Men, sort of a fitting finale for thoroughly enjoyable season that had a lot of unexpected twists. But not the cliffhanger sort of episode I’d expected.
Good to see Betty so shellshocked by Don’s big annoucement. She’s easy on the eyes, but for me her character’s always been the least likeable one on the show, or right up there with Pete and his wife.”
She doesn’t actually know or care about her children. Betty is all about Betty. ….
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
12:44 am
FREDDIE FREEMAN in the ‘ZONA LEAGUE:
4 G, 15 AB, 2 R, 1 H, 1 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, 1 RBI, 2 BB, 3 SO, .222 OBP, .133 SLG, .067 BA, .356 OPS – damn, this sucks.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:44 am
Favorite current commercial: Geico “Wood Chuck” commercial.
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:44 am
Bleep . . .. ..
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:45 am
richbrave
Bummer! I am sure smilin’ Frank was hoping for a better showing.
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
12:46 am
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:36 am
night MIBF. see ya later
You take of yourself you ole geezer!
Braves Fan Lost in Ohio
October 18th, 2010
12:47 am
DOB, thanks for the blog. Hope you take that time off you’re supposed to!
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
12:48 am
TYLER PASTORNICKY continues hitting a ton (.444 BA) through three games in AFL.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:48 am
up until 5 or 6 year ago I almost never watched TV shows for thirty years or more, just movies. since I slowed down and the retired I have found a whole passel of them that I like..scripted shows mind you…no “reality” crap. my best friend spends a lot of time on the food shows I have never watched one. I spent just a few years in that business as an F&B manager and that was so miserable of an experience I have no interest in the subject at all anymore
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:50 am
You take (care) of yourself you ole geezer!
The nerve of some of those young folk!
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
12:50 am
Ok, I’m checking out for the night. My wife will ask we why I’m coming to bed so late. She thinks being on the blog is a waste of time. I’m going to tell her the playoff game had a rain delay.
Radhames Jr
October 18th, 2010
12:50 am
imgine if we get McLouth from 2008?
what a dream….
doesnt look like we get werth or crawford…
rasmus looks like the guy who could grow alongside heyward…
alot of pressure on those young guys.
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
12:52 am
NYTOL.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:53 am
nolie
I love to cook when I have time. Doesn’t happen all that often though. I love to watch the pros at work though.
Not much into any of the reality shows, though I got hooked about 3 years ago on one season of the Biggest Loser. Got somewhat emotionally attached to a father/son entry.
I avoid them now like the plague.
With the satellite TV, there is always a good movie to be found somewhere.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:54 am
I’ll settle for the McNate of about any time B4 he got here
nolie
October 18th, 2010
12:57 am
With the satellite TV, there is always a good movie to be found somewhere.
true, and netflix and downloads. maybe it is just my attention span getting smaller with age (about the only part of me if so) but I find myself more comfortable with 45 minutes at a time often. I cook too some, but Freddy cooks constantly. haven’t got thr energy all the time for that anymore
AZBravoFan
October 18th, 2010
1:00 am
Any chance of Nate going to winter ball to work on his swing?
DS1
October 18th, 2010
1:02 am
When my wife asks if I’ve been wasting my time on the blog again, I tell her any talk about the Braves is NOT a waste of time!
Gonna head out.
Take care nolie……
nolie
October 18th, 2010
1:08 am
night DS1, stick up for your rights man
MIBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
1:21 am
Elvis singing “Amazing Grace” . . . .
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
1:24 am
The Red Sox owners just bought the Liverpool Football Club (soccer) in the British Premier League. A rather storied team on hard times. They (the new owners) went today to watch their new acquisition get quashed. They hope to turn Liverpool around, especially since they are in danger of being relegated. (Picture the Falcons being bumped down to arena league.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/9085638.stm
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:26 am
I watched Rubicon first episode but couldn’t finish it too boring for my taste.
I also watched one a couple of episodes of V, but didn’t liked it.
White Collar +/-
The Good guys I liked.
But I really miss Prision Break, 24(the first 3 seasons), and Lost, those three were my favorites…….I love Chuck now it’s my favorite right now.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
1:27 am
DOB – I seen your comment on the last blog about Don Baylor’s name being dropped on the hitting coach vacancy. That mean…it’s been dropped out..or in?
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:35 am
Liverpool in danger of being relegated…….Wow, and they have a pretty talented team with Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres leading the way
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
1:36 am
Torres looked really bad in the World Cup. He just has not come back well from his surgeries.
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
1:42 am
They have a lot of talent. Beyond Gerrard and Torres, there is Dirk Kuyt from the Dutch national team. Maxi Rodriguez from the Argentine team and Joe Cole from England’s team. They just have not been able to pull it together. New England Sports Ventures hopes for a reclamation project with a brand name, much like they had with the Red Sox, when they bought them a year ago.
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
1:43 am
That should be–’a decade ago.’
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:55 am
Torres was injured I think in the world cup……….Kuyt from holland is pretty good, Daniel Agger, Jamie Carragher, Joe Cole, Reina the goal keeper, Maxi Rodriguez………I don’t follow football(soccer) so much but I do now Liverpool has a great team.
DawgDad
October 18th, 2010
1:57 am
Of all the arb-eligible players they should pay Prado and move the rest. All of them, unless JJ isn’t commanding proper return (something on the FAR north side of Cabrera value). I’d be exploring trade options for Infante and Gonzalez; would seem difficult to keep both of them. Listen to trade offers for Lowe, if any materialize.
This could well be the time for a serious Marlins-style youth movement, Part I, with Part II after Lowe and Jones move on and McLouth’s contract expires.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
2:13 am
ain’t happening DD. Braves reload not retool and it will stay that way. Infante and Gonzalez will both be here.
JASon
October 18th, 2010
2:22 am
It seems like bobby realizes he’s not the greatest manager.
One day, all of these people defending him will wake up and realize what we have been trying to tell them all along: we should have been much more competitive in the postseason than we were. Atlanta natives should have enjoyed at least 3 or 4 championships over the period of time in which we had an embarassment of riches playing for us. The most embarassing thing of all, though, is the fact that so many “southern idiots” (as I call them) still defend him. I am from Atlanta but am not afraid to call it like it is: most people down here are dumb.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
2:26 am
nah ain’t happening JASon.. the folks in the real know who make their living in baseball 98% think he is a great manager. about 15 or 20& of the Braves fans don’t, but that’s the same 15-20% of every teams’s fans who hate the manager and complain about exactly the same things on their boards that y’all Cox haters do here about Bobby. fluff off, he’s gone
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
2:28 am
DOB-
Any chance that Pastornicky kid gets a legitimate shot in Spring Training? Seems like I recall that the Braves love his defense and his speed, but they were waiting for his bat to come around. I know it’s only a few AFL games so far… but as long as he proves he can get on base some sort of way at least once or twice a game or so, it sure would be nice to have a speedster atop the lineup for the first time in what feels like a decade. Thoughts on Pastornicky’s chances on being with the Braves MLB team in the next year or two?
Bay Area Steve
October 18th, 2010
2:29 am
One day, all of these people criticizing him will wake up and realize what we have been trying to tell them all along? (same, but different)
Condescending much? How ’bout you let me think what I’m gonna think anyway, and you go pleasure Rosanne Barr. How in the hell are you people still talking about 1997? You’re like a typical 90-year-old, except that you’re a far less interesting read.
And, “southern idiot?” Take it from a fruit and nut: F’ you.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
2:30 am
hi Steve-o
nolie
October 18th, 2010
2:31 am
I resemble that 90 year old remark
nolie
October 18th, 2010
2:35 am
ok be that way, I know I am now a pariah
nolie
October 18th, 2010
2:36 am
night all
Bay Area Steve
October 18th, 2010
2:37 am
Hey noles,
In honor of you, and ‘OB’s Rubicon mention, I’m chaining their last four together tonight. Halfway home, and it is picking up. Subject matter is there; a little sizzle and…
I like your idea of waiting to watch a season all at once; if only I had the patience.
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
2:38 am
good ol Bobby Cox. What a polarizing cat. He’s gone, yet some are still complaining. I’m in no way saying he was the best manager ever, but I also recognize all he’s done for the organization. Just say thank you for they years, or thank you for leaving… and then move on. I wonder how quickly the Fredi Gonzales hate club will form?
Bay Area Steve
October 18th, 2010
2:40 am
Sleep well, old man.
The A Bomb
October 18th, 2010
2:42 am
HAHAHA!
Love reading all the Kemp talk…. Just remember folks, if it happens, The A Bomb is the first one who mentioned it as far back as August.
He is the fit.
Bay Area Steve
October 18th, 2010
2:44 am
FG-hate-club was formed a few days ago. Members didn’t have to join; they were born that way. And, somehow, all the same cats. Who’da thunk it?
And this: “Just say thank you for the years, or thank you for leaving… and then move on.”
How good is that? Either way. what else is there? Yet the same folks can’t help themselves.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
2:45 am
Lollygagger
Probably after the first 5, 6, 7 games or so that the Braves lose next season..(LOL)
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
2:45 am
that should make you very popular with the ladies, A Bomb.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
2:46 am
Ya can’t make EVERYONE happy. I think Freddie will do fine, altho I was kinda hoping for Joe T.
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
2:49 am
Frank from KS-
I figure it’ll be the first time the Braves get caught stealing or botch a hit-and-run. They’ll start saying “Man, I wish Bobby were here so we can sit back and be patient on the basepaths and wait for the three-run homer.”
D.J.
October 18th, 2010
3:37 am
We seriously are going to have to get people to differentiate between Fredi and Freddie… we could be in for a long 5 to 20 years if we don’t.
People: Fredi Gonzalez is the Braves’ manager, while Freddie Freeman is the Braves’ first baseman of the foreseeable future.
Rodney Derrick
October 18th, 2010
6:09 am
AMC has an amazing record with creating shows that induce lots of thought, and Rubicon joined Mad Men at the hip this year. Just hope it is renewed!
Obee
October 18th, 2010
6:09 am
DOB:
Been a Rubicon fan all season, but it’s hard to imagine that it could have survived on any other network. Recorded the finale last night and am looking forward to it.
Regarding the Braves, it might be easier working the other end. If you read the Liberty Media financials, the division that owns the Braves has $2 billion in cash, although it did have an operational loss in the last quarter. Imagine the difference if the Braves could snag even 1% of that.
Here’s an interesting quote from the Liberty CEO in their latest filing:
“In LCAPA, the Braves are highly strategic as long as they win the wild card. But it’s ultimately I don’t think we’re going to be a baseball owner somewhere down the road. It’s just doesn’t fit our kind of profile of businesses, but it’s a fullness of time thing.” We can only hope.
Regarding finances, here’s something from their latest quarterly report.
“The Atlanta Braves and certain of their players and coaches have entered into long-term employment contracts whereby such individuals’ compensation is guaranteed. Amounts due under guaranteed contracts as of June 30, 2010 aggregated $186 million, which is payable as follows: $67 million in 2010, $67 million in 2011 and $50 million in 2012 and $2 million thereafter.”
keef
October 18th, 2010
6:31 am
all of this “analysis” is moot. Until Arthur Blank buys us and raises payroll by about ONE HUNDRED MILLION to $180 mill, (yes, payroll is going DOWN to $80 million) this conjecture is all about keeping us fans at bay from protesting Liberty Media. Liberty could care less….they’re pretty much saying…”buy your $150 jersey, go to 10 games and shut up…”
Please don’t say payroll doesn’t matter. Three words:
YANKEES
REDSOX
PHILLIES
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
6:39 am
Imagine the difference if the Braves could snag even 1% of that.
Business doesn’t work that way. The Braves are a self-sustaining division of the company, is one way of looking at it. Draw 2.5 million, make the playoffs, and you can allocate $90MM or so to major league payroll. Draw 3 million, and you can up to $100MM+. Either way, ML payroll is going to be a price point that allows for a realistic expectation of making a profit. I know some posters think a team’s owner should bleed red ink “for the good of the team”, but it ain’t their money flying out the door, LOL.
Braves stuck with Nate McLouth? | Ben Maller
October 18th, 2010
7:31 am
[...] $6.5 mill salary in 2011, plus there’s a $1.25 mill buyout on a $10.65 mill club option fro 2012. No team is going to take on that full salary after McLouth’s performance since he was traded to th… in June 2009, including a .190 average in 2010 with 12 doubles, six homers, 24 RBIs and a .298 OBP [...]
Braves dealing young pitchers? | Ben Maller
October 18th, 2010
7:36 am
[...] available young pitchers on the current roster or from their bevy of top minor-league arms. But the Braves aren’t going to trade potential future No. 1 starters Julio Teheran and Randall Delgado, and Wren makes it sound like they’re inclined not to trade other young arms already in the [...]
semiballcoach
October 18th, 2010
7:47 am
keef–payroll don’t matter–3 teams for you to ponder
ny mets, la dodgers, la angels
bwash21
October 18th, 2010
7:50 am
If the Braves actually won the World Series and they were in the locker room hoisting the trophy on Fox, you’d have the Mgr, the GM, probably Terry McGuirk, JS, and we’d either be missing the owner or they’d have to go around and introduce themselves to everyone during all the gladhanding.
The Braves ownership is a JOKE.
semiballcoach
October 18th, 2010
7:53 am
team payrolls for 2010
Yankees $201,449,189
Red Sox $121,745,999
Cubs $134,809,000
Phillies $113,004,046
Mets $149,373,987
Tigers $115,085,145
White Sox $96,068,500
Angels $113,709,000
Mariners $98,904,166
Giants $82,616,450
Twins $65,299,266
Dodgers $100,414,592
DAP
October 18th, 2010
8:01 am
lollygagger, im sure pastornicky is going to get at least another full year in the minors. the braves have a shortstop for 2011, no need to rush pastornicky. hes doing well in AFL, but his season stats at AA werent great. also, the braves just drafted a highschool SS from texas, matt lipka. they used their first pick on him this year.
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
8:11 am
Tomas,
Frank Wren says he wants Freeman to play about 140 games, so they want somebody who can start for him against certain matchups, and to keep him fresh. My guess is somebody right handed.
I’m not sure what to expect from him offensively (maybe 18 HR, .260 average), but defensively, he will be a huge upgrade over Glaus.
I can see the Braves keeping Hinske and Conrad as their bench players. Conrad can provide spot starts for Chipper and Prado, who are both coming off injuries.
Kat
October 18th, 2010
8:16 am
Rubicon looked good and I have the series recorded on the DVR just hadn’t had chance to start watching it. Glad to hear it’s good.
Cecil34
October 18th, 2010
8:36 am
Don’t expect much more than what Atlanta fans have received in the last 10 years – occasionally competitive, wild-card worthy teams that in one department or another will fall short of LCS or WS.
Teams that are on the competitive see-saw and could fall the other way as well.
Wren says a whole lot of nothing in this article. Because he cannot commit publically to any course of action due to the payroll constraints that the Braves are currently under with this ownership.
Free agency is not a course of action that the Braves will employ to any real advantage because they cannot afford to do so. (so-called impact players)
So anything accomplished to do this will have to be effected by trading.
It would be prudent for Atlanta fans to temper their 2011 projections, as this current regime has established a mediocre track record to this point. Nothing so far indicates otherwise.
As Missourians say – “Show Me”…..
Double Zero Eight
October 18th, 2010
8:39 am
Bring back Ted Turner. The ownership is not willing to spend the money to seriously compete for a World Series title.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
9:11 am
cecil34 what Atlanta fans have received in the last 10 years – occasionally competitive, wild-card worthy teams that in one department or another will fall short of LCS or WS.
its interesting to see what qualifies as “occasionally competitive” to some folks. in the last 10 years, braves have made the playoffs 6 times. thats not too bad.
now, those teams have been flawed, and have fallen short, but i would still call that being fairly consistently competitive.
i do hope, though, that the braves take this opportunity they have to really bulk up the team. i know money is an issue, but it shouldnt keep them from making this team better than it was in 2010, and they were pretty dang good when they were right.
DC Brave
October 18th, 2010
9:15 am
DOB – fellow bloggers – are there any potential outfield bats not named Jordan Schafer anywhere in the Braves’ minor league system that might be considered close and/or ready?
Paul
October 18th, 2010
9:16 am
I think Freeman is done, he isn’t doing well in the AFL, and bringing him up and not using him hurt him mentally!!
. Don
October 18th, 2010
9:22 am
This may be old news – as I have not been able to follow developments in the last few days — But has Gonzalez said what he is planning to do relating to the coaches??
coach smith
October 18th, 2010
9:24 am
I’m sorry but I have an MBA and their supposed “Accounting” is BULL!
Under no circumstances is it possible for you to remove 7.5 million for Wagner, 3.5 million for Saito, 3.2 million for Melky, 2 million for Glaus, and the combined 3 million they paid for Lee/Ankiel/Farnsworth for a TOTAL of roughly 17.2 MILLION COMING OFF THE BOOKS and WREN is trying to tell us that somehow the payroll is INCREASING!?!?!
Are they paying insurance equal to the dang contracts?
DAVE O’BRIEN help me here!!!
Even if those ARbitration guys cause an increase of 3 million you should still have 14.5 million to offer 10-12 million to get a big time bat, another million or 2 to pay someone like Andruw Jones and/or Cody Ross
WREN is selling us BULL here and I am a Braves’ supporter no matter what, But I don’t like being lied to or taken for someone who is stupid by Wren
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
9:25 am
“………. I am from Atlanta but am not afraid to call it like it is: most people down here are dumb……….” JASon
And you definitely are not?
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
9:25 am
.Don: Gonzalez is going to hire Bobby Cox as his hitting coach…
Ed Zachary
October 18th, 2010
9:27 am
“Braves fans tired of watching while others play for pennant”
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
9:28 am
Hubbard and Kahadia are gone. Carlos Tosca is bench coach. Pendleton to 1st. Snitker stays at 3rd. New hitting coach coming.
shelbydawkins
October 18th, 2010
9:30 am
You really hit the nail on the head when you said that Turner field is the place where playoff hopes go to die. I noticed this several years ago and always always always dreaded when the team headed home to claim ‘home field advantage’. WHAT A JOKE!
Tommy T
October 18th, 2010
9:38 am
UnretireBobbyCox @ 9:25. Definitely post of the day and the early favorite for post of the off-season.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
9:44 am
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
9:47 am
DOB mentioned all the elimination games at Turner Field, in which we were eliminated. I wonder what has been our home record those seasons.
Just looking at this season, we had the best home record in the major league regular season, but then we go 0-2 in the playoffs at home. Why is that?
From mlbtraderumors.com;
Speaking of Ross, Andrew Baggarly of The Mercury News reports that Giants GM Brian Sabean left a “clear impression” before tonight’s game that the outfielder will be tendered a contract this offseason..
Danga
October 18th, 2010
9:49 am
Pro sports teams have long been criticised for being less than honest when it comes to accounting.
GaryinBham
October 18th, 2010
9:49 am
I’m with those who favor a youth movement. There are enough solid vets here if Chipper makes it back to make a good run with the pitching we have. I’d rather get bounced from the Wild Card with inexperienced kids than bounced from the WC with injured vets. The young guys will be a nightmare at times, but then incredibly energetic at others. I’m lowering expectations for ‘11 and hoping we don’t trade the farm again. We created a new verb: “They got Texieraed”
. Don
October 18th, 2010
9:50 am
Regardless of who was chosen as the new manager, the Braves probably will not be competitive next season and perhaps for several years — Not because Bobby Cox is gone but because of several factors.
(1) There is going to be very little money available to make any kind of improvements from the free agent market.
(2) Even more significantly, a huge part of the payroll budget is tied up im players who may not be productive — Chipper – 13 mil, Kawakami – almost 7 mil, McLouth – 6 1/2 mil, and perhaps even Lowe who is old and going to be a year older – 15 mil (will he be the pitcher he was in the last part of the season or the pitcher he was a significant part of the season). That’s a total of over 40 million, almost half the payroll total. And that doesn’t even count Gonzo who was not a quality shortstop either offensively or defensively.
(3) Even worse, in reality, the Braves have only 3 established, major league quality, regular, healthy postion players – Catcher, Second Base, and Right Field. And this assumes that Prado can bounce back from the injury effectively and be the second baseman; and, of course, even in right field you have a second year player who is not yet an established veteran. Of course, In addition, you do have Infante who had been considered to be a utility player but had a great year and probably could be plugged into some defensive postion.
(4) Perhaps most significant of all, Bobby Cox is leaving the Braves with two of their potental Star Starting Pitchers for years to come injured (Medlin and JJ). (JJ has never been anything like his first year ever since the shoulder injury). We do not know if either of these will ever come back and be effective. (Even with McDowells terrible record of multiple pitcher injures every season since he has been with the Braves, Cox refused to make a change and kept him on — Now instead of having a bright future with a great YOUNG pitching staff, the Braves may have pitchng problems for years to come with these two young pitching stars injured.
(5) The Braves should have a great young star Shortstop and a great bat in the middle of their order for years to come in Escobar; but Bobby Cox could not/would not manage him effectively (his hands off, don’t make any demands of players approach did not work with him) and the Braves traded him/gave him away – and now may have a shortstop problem for years to come – and have lost a big bat from the lineup.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
9:55 am
So, .Don: you are saying essentially that it had nothing to do with Bobby Cox after all. The Braves simply didn’t have the payroll to be competitive… thanks for clarifying!
Lew
October 18th, 2010
9:55 am
Even if Kawakami were reduced to “chopping sushi” as someone indelicately put it, would you give a person, pissed off by the way he was treated by the Braves, with a very sharp knife in his hand, grief?
. Don
October 18th, 2010
9:55 am
keyLargo, What about McDowell?
Lew
October 18th, 2010
9:56 am
don- Our very own ray of sunshine.
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
9:56 am
I’d just as soon see Mac concentrate on his catching D and not worry about first at this point. He is not as bad as some on here claim
I agree with nolie. But don’t even KID about BMac playing for the Yankees!
. Don
October 18th, 2010
9:57 am
UnretiredBobbyCox, I believe that you have a significant reading problem.
Danga
October 18th, 2010
10:00 am
I think this season the team that went into the playoffs was a shell of the team that racked up that home record. In general, home field advantage probably matters less in the playoffs simply due to the quality of competition.
ryan c
October 18th, 2010
10:00 am
On Lowe’s September: Lowe is a self-admitted “cooler weather” pitcher. Yes, part of his success was due to changing his approach and adding in a slider, but let’s not forget that he’s been incredibly mediocre for the most part of 2 years and that he’s receiving 15 million dollars each of the next two years. in his first 2 years of his contract, he’s been worth 22.6 million dollars and he got paid 30 million. he’s not worth his contract and the braves should try to shop him.
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:00 am
DOWN ON THE FARM:
TYLER PASTORNICKY evidently is playing 2B in the fall league. Are the BRAVES looking for a back-up at second? We know he can play short. Is he being aimed at BROOKSIE’s job? He certainly won’t be able to hit pinch-hit homers with regularity based on his numbers. But hitting for average and solid defense from the fill-in at second could help us back to the post season as well. So maybe he becomes the next OMAR INFANTE?
I’m wondering out loud if BRAVES management is thinking along the lines of improving the defense first in 2011 to support the great pitching that’s here now and for the future. That was sorely lacking this season, and would have certainly improved our chances in the post-season. Maybe waiting for 2012 to try to improve the hitting. If that’s the case I sure would want SKI back.
Anyway, 3 G, 9 AB, 1 R, 4 H, 0 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, 2 RBI, 0 BB, 0 SO, .500 OBP, .444 SLG, .444 BA, .944 OPS.
CORY HARRILCHAK’s numbers are slipping in ‘ZONA. The ‘book’ has found the hole in his swing maybe, or maybe it’s just a small sample size and not that big of a deal. Anyway, he-e-ere’s CORY!!!!.
3 G, 14 AB, 1 R, 4 H, 0 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 BB, 2 SO, .333 OBP, .429 SLG, .286 BA, .762 OPS.
FREEMAN’s numbers I put up last night on page 4, 12:44 a.m. Not pretty, but again a very small sample size (15 AB).
CORY GEARRIN’s gotten in 3.0 IP with a 0.00 ERA and a 0.33 WHIP with 1 H, and 0 BB – 3 SO. He’s rebounded nicely from his melt-down on MLBN mid-season.
MIKE BROADWAY’s have stayed the same – 9.00 ERA, 1.33 WHIP for 3.0 IP.
ERIC CORDIER has not gone out again and his numbers have not changed to date.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
10:06 am
anyone see Bowmans ridiculous tweet last night?
@mlbbowman: ” But the more I watch, the more I think he’s as good as Andruw ever was in CF in his prime yrs”
HA HA….what an absolute joke. Victorino is good, Andruw won 10 straight gold glove awards
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:08 am
Yeah, Lowe is just average. Those 31 wins and 400IP are meaningless. Sheesh.
Lowe’s going nowhere. Do you even have a clue how much it would cost to replace those 16 wins from this year?
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
10:09 am
ryan c, you’re absolutely right If there is a taker for Derek Lowe then you have to move him. Watching our team payroll getting cut each year makes it pretty clear that Liberty isnt going to move the budget upwards anytime soon. Lowe pitched very well down the stretch, but if Wren can find a taker then he has to go
Fred
October 18th, 2010
10:10 am
.Don, Dude, give it a rest. How many times can you say the same thing about someone who is NO LONGER MANAGING THE BRAVES? Everybody on this blog knows how you feel, there is no need to waste your time repeating yourself incessantly. Frankly, its unhealthy to be so obsessed with someone to the extent you are with our former manager. For your own sanity, why not look forward to next year instead of complaining about the past?
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:11 am
“……he’s [LOWE] not worth his contract and the braves should try to shop him…….” ryan c
I think that’s been tried, and pretty publicly too. That may be happening this off-season also.
Obee
October 18th, 2010
10:11 am
“The Braves are a self-sustaining division of the company, is one way of looking at it.”
Not exactly. They are part of a subsidiary called the Capital Group, which includes a lot of entertainment interests, such as movies. The Braves, however, are pretty much bit players in this group, since they are barely mentioned in the revenue summary and it’s pretty clear that management doesn’t see the Braves as an important part of their business plan.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
10:12 am
DCBrave are there any potential outfield bats not named Jordan Schafer anywhere in the Braves’ minor league system that might be considered close and/or ready?
matt young, a speedy CF.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
10:14 am
Lew, Lowe is better than average. However, he’s a $8-9mil pitcher make $15mil the next two years. Its simple financials, that’s not a good asset.
Frankie Wren
October 18th, 2010
10:15 am
My early favorite offseason post is today as well.
Freddy Freeman is done. Not hitting well in AFL and confidence shot for bringing up early and not playing. Amazing, amazing perception and solid GM call. Pushing the panic button a little early here maybe?
Lets see what he does next year. Sure there are concerns but 15 at bats in AFL doesn’t even warrant a critique yet as far as I am concerned.
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:16 am
Fred
October 18th, 2010
10:10 am
.Don, Dude, give it a rest. ………. For your own sanity, why not look forward to next year instead of complaining about the past?
The dark side IS .Don’s sanity. It’s the way he sees things. Doesn’t bother me, I get that way sometimes myself. At least he’s consistant. I’m all over the place, sometimes positive, sometimes negative – I even agree with DON on occasion, just not as blackly.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:18 am
unbelievable -That’s a bunch of BDS and nothing but. You seriously believe that if Lowe is traded (you think you’ll get a return other than salary relief?) that Beachy or MInor step in and win the games that Lowe does? Won’t happen. You will have to bring in another pitcher to replace Lowe, making the savings on salary much less than what you think they will be.
You think that with what’s left of the $15 mil after you do replace Lowe will get us a bat that will compensate for the loss of Lowe, much less add the run production we need? Guess again.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:18 am
BS – Don’t know what BDS is except bad typing (what’s new)?.
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
10:19 am
“Do you even have a clue how much it would cost to replace those 16 wins from this year?”
I have to agree with Lew here. The only NL pitchers (besides Lowe) to have 16 or more wins this season were: Halladay, Wainwright, Jimenez, Hudson, Arroyo, Carpenter and Lincecum. Getting someone else to perform in this tier is going to be expensive. Why move him and create a need?
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:19 am
DAP
October 18th, 2010
10:12 am
DCBrave are there any potential outfield bats not named Jordan Schafer anywhere in the Braves’ minor league system that might be considered close and/or ready?
matt young, a speedy CF.
And WILLIE CABRERA 2012 in all probability
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:21 am
And maybe some of y’all need to go back and look at Lowe’s year. He lost quite a few games despite pitching well late in the season – just like Hanson did. Lowe should have won over 20 games this year.
You’d be hard pressed to bring in another pitcher with the wins he’s had the past nine years for less than what he makes.
Fred
October 18th, 2010
10:23 am
That’s true, Richbrave. I just can’t see how one can blame JJ’s shoulder issues on McDowell because 1) he had shoulder issues in the Detroit organization and 2) he injured his shoulder pitching in a pickup game over the off-season (and therefore wasn’t following the Braves off-season/pre-season conditioning program, starting with bullpen sessions in Atlanta in February). Regarding Medlen, they actually skipped a couple of his starts due to off days in order to limit his innings prior to his injury, but he still got hurt.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:27 am
Lwe:
“Even if Kawakami were reduced to “chopping sushi” as someone indelicately put it, would you give a person, pissed off by the way he was treated by the Braves, with a very sharp knife in his hand, grief?”
Not me, brother!
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:28 am
FRED:
Shouldn’t they shut JJ down and fix whatever recurring shoulder issues he has? I would unless they can’t really be fixed. In which case, I’m concerned for his long-term future in baseball.
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:29 am
RE: LOWE:
Give the man a cortisone shot and cool weather and he’s good to go.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
10:33 am
i hope wren is only trying to temper expectations when he says the braves need to “get creative” with the team in the offseason. to me that means getting subpar players and hoping for the best. like i said, i hope thats just talk.
there are free agents out there the braves could use that will improve the team, and wont cost an arm and a leg.
i also think this is an offseason to trade some prospects, if we can get the right players back.
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
10:34 am
DOB: Anyone been watching Rubicon?
Yes. I really enjoyed that show. Agreed at first it was slow, but having watched every episode from the start, looking back the slowness wasn’t as apparent. It makes sense as it all unfolds. I’m looking forward to another season if they bring it back. And I was pleased that the writing, acting, direction could make me tense and get me hooked without gimmicks.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:35 am
Y’all need to start looking at this whole situation from a slightly different angle.
We ended the season six games behind the Phillies. Most here think we need Home Field advantage (I don’t disagree), so we need to make up seven games in the standings to win the division next year. That is nothing but cold, hard, fact.
Now we lost games this year, not because we lacked pitching, but in spite of the pitching. So we need to add bats and defense to strengthen the team and to gain those seven games in the standings – IF everything else remains the same.
If you trade pitching, then you need to replace those wins, as well as improve the defense and the offense. In essence, now you have yet another area of the team that needs to be corrected to get to the wins you need, because in the Braves’ case, they have no one who can step in and replace Lowe’s performance.
Yeah, you MIGHT have a couple of extra bucks, but after having to fill yet another position that did NOT need filling to begin with, you’ve got a lot less to fix those problems than you thought you were getting to begin with.
You just never weaken your team in order to strengthen it. Makes absolutely no sense to do so. This winter will be more than challenging enough for Wren and the front office just filling the holes we already have without going and making more holes that need filling.
Let the man trade Kawakami and fill the holes through other means. Lowe leaving will only create yet more problems than the Braves already face. They have a big enough job to do as it is.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:36 am
JeffR-One would hope not. Never can tell with some here, though……
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:38 am
I hope I’m wrong, but Nate McLouth has Jeff Francoeur written all over him. That the Braves are on the hook to the guy this season is unforntuante.
The Chipper, Kawakami, McLouth contracts are a big drag on the teams fortunes in 2011.
Everyone’s hoping against hope that A) Chipper’s banged up 39-year-old body will somehow, some way, rejuvenate itself and Chipper will produce, well, not like he did prior 2004 (when his injury jinx began), but perhaps on the order of his batting title year or B) that Chipper doesn’t blow another knee (or something else) halfway through the season. Confidence level: low to very low.
Kawakami… I think the Kawakami defenders have pretty much taken to the tall grass. In fairness to Kawakami, he was overbilled as a version of Greg Maddux. Not. Good luck if Wren unloads him without having to eat a substantial portion of his contract. Still, even if Wren can dump the K-man, that’s dollars substracted from payroll.
GTSteve
October 18th, 2010
10:38 am
Good Stuff Lew
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
10:38 am
bringing him up and not using him hurt him mentally!
So what is it, brain bruise?
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
10:41 am
We ended the season six games behind the Phillies. Most here think we need Home Field advantage (I don’t disagree), so we need to make up seven games in the standings to win the division next year. That is nothing but cold, hard, fact.
So the cold, hard, fact is the Phillies are going to win 97 games again next year? Never thought I’d see you pump up those Phillies in the off-season Lew. Especially this early and that big of a pump-up.
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
10:42 am
.Don – I also believe you admitted that most of the problems were not due to Bobby, but were due to payroll constraints.
Your coments concerning injuries to pitchers being his (and McDowwel’s) fault, and your assessment of Escobar are both PURE UNADULTRATED CRAP. As always, you continue to be a Maroon, and now you are even contridicting yourself.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
10:42 am
.Don – I dno’t htink I heva a raedign porbelm!
DS1
October 18th, 2010
10:43 am
DAP
I think Wrens comments are meant to be elusive. All semantics. I don’t think he’ll go out and bid for Werth or Crawford, but I think he’ll be looking at some upgrades through trades and lesser free agents.
There will be more bargains out there once the FA list increases after the non-tender deadline.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
10:43 am
oh, adn htank uyo, raleighbravefan!
DS1
October 18th, 2010
10:45 am
Phillies won 97 this year, and didn’t get untracked until late August/September.
If they have a healthy year next year, their only concern would be replacing Werth’s power.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:47 am
TenPaul-I’m not pumping them up. Those are just cold hard facts – like I said. Now it is entirely POSSIBLE – if not probable – that the Phillies may not win as many next year making the differential even less, but after what we saw from the Phillies (and the Braves) in September, do you want to take the chance that it will happen because the Phillies stop winning?
Keep Lowe and find another cheaper offensive/defensive solution. I’d rather we gain the seven wins by winning them.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:47 am
Lew… I’d generally agree with 10:35 assessment, though I’d add this: I’d like to see Wren add younger offensive talent rather than trying to lock down an older power bat. I’ve got to believe that there are solid prospcts at the major league ready stage that teams might part with for a reasonable price. The Braves have enough money locked up in older players who are questionable in terms of A) health and/or B) ability to produce.
And there’s that little thing about positioning the Braves beyond 2011. The team has a good core of younger pitchers (on the staff and coming up). The infield looks pretty good, except for Chipper and, perhaps, Gonzalez (no small exceptions, but…).
Heyward is set and should make big strides next season. Why not look for a young stud to put in the outfield along side Heyward?
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
10:49 am
Unretire – Don’t hold your breath for a rational response from Don – or any response at all! He always just flys by, drops his load of crap, and disappears when challenged.
Fred
October 18th, 2010
10:49 am
Richbrave, JJ is taking a break during the off-season to fix his knee. I don’t know enough about shoulder injuries or the state of JJ’s shoulder to render an opinion about the need for shoulder surgery. Also, I’m sure the Braves have told him to stay away from the winter pick-up games.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:50 am
DS1-I expect the Phillies will likely have a similar season next year – it’s a typical Phillies’ season. They are prone (like I’ve said all along) to cold offensive streaks and poor pen pitching early, but seem to surge late in the season.
We came close to finding the key to beating them this year – hit them early and don’t quit until they are submerged in September.. Unfortunately, we quit winning and lost the lead.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:51 am
DC Brave: No outfield bats in system that are going to be ready next season, barring some big, surprising, rapid improvement.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:52 am
Been a Rubicon fan all season, but it’s hard to imagine that it could have survived on any other network. — Obee
Agreed, which is why the majority of great dramas on TV aren’t on the major networks. They’re on FX, AMC, HBO, etc.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:52 am
JeffR-I agree and feel that is exactly what he’ll do. He’ll use minor league pitching in a trade for someone under contractual control for several years that has a good offensive/defensive upside – though who that maybe is a mystery to me at this point.
Now if we could just get Nate to .250, 12-15 and 65 RBI, too? Ah, to dream.
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
10:53 am
I agree that we need to bolster the offense to whatever extent possible, including adding a hitter in the outfield. However, we would have won several games, especially in September, if we had just been able to tighten up the defense. That should happen when we are able to field a healthy team of regulars, and not have to rely on part-timers and utility players.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:54 am
Frank from KS: I said Baylor’s name is one of those that has been mentioned.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
10:54 am
jeff r I’d like to see Wren add younger offensive talent rather than trying to lock down an older power bat.
what do we have against veterans around here? not every older player hits like garrett anderson, ya’ll.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
10:55 am
If we could find a way to add a Rasmus or Kemp; that improves our defense and hitting. If we could add someone like Young in AZ, that increases or defense and maybe our hitting, though he has a hefty contract.
And there are probably another dozen names out there that have been mentioned (or not) who would improve us.
My hopes are that we don’t decimate our pitching staff while adding players who can catch the ball with more regularity.
It’s fun to speculate, but until FW starts making some moves, it’s going to be hard to know which way he will go.
My guess is he keeps our pitching staff (Huddy, Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe) intact. Beachy, Minor or some of the minor league guys might be dealt. Sounds like my idea of keeping Kawakami until the spring to let him regain some value, is probably down the crapper now w/ FW’s statements. That would speak to the serious salary concerns.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
10:56 am
Oh, raleighbravefan: my favorite people on this blog are .Don and Robert. I sometimes suspect they are one and the same person. Except, .Don does not use the animal analogies (donkey)…
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
10:57 am
Lew, I respectfully disagree. The braves have about 18% of their payroll tied up into Derek Lowe. Yes, he’s a good pitcher, but he isnt worth the money that he’s receiving. This is exactly why he’ll be a Brave in 2011. Not one team is willing to take him and his full salary. It would create another hole by moving him, and yes, the braves would need to bring in another starter to replace him. Hypothetically speaking the Braves could bring back Vasquez and sign Ordonez for less than what Lowe is making. Either way, its not going to happen and its a moot point.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:58 am
raleighbravesfan-I’d love to see them add a slick fielding middle infielder for late inning defensive substitution. Maybe someone who could play 2B SS and 3B. I;d rathr use Omar for outfield substitution or if someone needed to miss appreciable time. Dude had a great year offensively, but we saw all about subs and defense.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
10:58 am
DAP
So long as the older player doesn’t hurt us too much in the field. I don’t think Magglio Ordonez is the answer. While he may hit, he is not going to come back stronger from a broken ankle.
Before I’d add poor fielding outfielders, I’d rather take a flier on Ankiel at a fair price. At least he can go and get the ball.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:59 am
The Phillies were just a machine going into late August through September. Unfortunately, the Braves slumped at the very time they needed to surge.
Can’t recall exactly, but didn’t the Braves finished September 14-16? Starting September, as I can remember, the Braves were playing .590 baseball, or thereabouts. If the Braves had played .590 ball in September, they’d have won 95 games, I believe. That’s two games behind the Phils’ final record (97-65).
But food for thought: Would a Braves’ team playing September ball at a .590 clip have lost 5 out of 6 games to the Phils? Pure guess work, of course, but maybe not. Maybe the Braves would have taken a couple or three more games from the Phils and eked out the division title.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
10:59 am
unbelievable – Dude, answer this – Who do you replace those wins with?
Sorry, but he won’t be traded and not because no one will take the salary.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
11:01 am
I’ll give Infante a 50/50 shot at being dealt this winter. Sell high.
LTBF
October 18th, 2010
11:02 am
keef 6:31 all of this “analysis” is moot. Until Arthur Blank buys us and raises payroll by about ONE HUNDRED MILLION to $180 mill,
I too would like to see A. Blank buy Braves, but I believe NFL has rule thier owners cannot own other sports teams, besides even Blank would not raise payroll to 180 mill. We are not a major sports market like NYC or LA.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
11:02 am
Jeff
Mid August to the end of the season, it’s hard to overcome the injuries the Braves suffered. Yes, I think we might have split with them if we had been at full strength or close to it.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:03 am
Vazquez will cost more than the rumored $4 mil and after the year he just had, I’d only bring him in as a low rotation pitcher, rather than use MInor or Beachy. I’m not seeing him as a win for win replacement of Lowe. Way too risky at this point.
I like Javy, but Bobby Cox won’t be back and Javy may not be as happy this time around, especially since the Braves traded him to hell.
And again, why would Wren make more work for himself by even having to get another pitcher. Dude has enough on his plate. The money you would save after replacing Lowe won’t make the difference you seem to think it will. You won’t trade Lowe’s salary for Werth or Crawford. You’ll trade it for a lesser pitcher AND a lesser outfielder.
GboroBravo
October 18th, 2010
11:04 am
DOB, there are 2 good dramas on major networks, The Event and Fringe….both you could classify as Sci-FI/Drama but drama nonetheless. Rubicon has been great, really enjoy its twist and turns. Have you seen the previews for The Comeback (I believe thats what its called on FX, about a boxer). Looks interesting as well.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
11:04 am
Lew – thats exactly what Ive said, no one is going to take him. Win-Loss records are a stupid argument. Yes he won 16 games and couldve won more. He sure as hell couldve lost a lot of those also. Let me ask you this, who had the better season, Lowe or Hanson? Just wondering your thoughts?
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
11:04 am
Braves get: Beltran
Mets get: McClouth and KK
DS1
October 18th, 2010
11:05 am
I agree with Lew. Lowe stays. The Braves won’t eat any of his salary this time.
If FW dealt Jurrjens (unlikely in my opinion) or Minor, then Vazquez might be an option.
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
11:05 am
Lew – Agreed… and this is a point you made numerous times, about using utility guys full time.
I also think Lowe is worth what he is being paid, and it would be hard, if not impossible to replace his wins for less $. The biggest problems are that Medlen is out (almost) all year, and we have no idea what we will get from JJ. If JJ makes a big comeback, we could then consider trading him or Lowe.
Charles
October 18th, 2010
11:05 am
I still have no confidence in their ability to make the kind of deals that need to be made. Wren gave us Farnsworthless and Ankiel when he could have landed Cody Ross for a lot less than what you’re talking about now. And when it became apparent in August that Ankiel/Farnsworthless was a pig in the poke, why didn’t they claim Ross off waivers. . That would have solved the outfield problem If f he played for the Braves as he has for the Giants, we would still be playing now.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:06 am
Well, it’s been fun Denizens, but the drawing table and Very Hard Rock and Roll beckon – Maybe some Ancient Bards and some Stratovariius.
I’ve got some more promised artwork ready to go out next weekend – maybe not quite all I owe, but most of it. Thanks for the patience.
Later.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:06 am
DAP…
“what do we have against veterans around here? not every older player hits like garrett anderson, ya’ll.”
One, the vet bats I’d like the Braves to obtain (Jason Werth, for example) carry price tags well beyond what the Bravrs can afford this winter.
Two, I think it’s good to keep an eye to the future. Look the 90s Braves, like today’s Phils, develop a strong core of homegrown talent. Both teams then added veteran help to continue to make them competitive. Nothing wrong with that model, but…
The Braves still need to add younger players to build their core. And younger players are less likely to breakdown. Geez, Chipper’s an injury waiting to happen. Saito had age-related problems. So did Wagner. Gonzalez is getting older. An so on.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
11:06 am
I agree with Lew. Lowe stays. The Braves won’t eat any of his salary this time. – DS1
exactly what Ive said. The Braves wont be able to move him
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
11:06 am
DS1 – Infante isn’t going anywhere since he is very versatile and won’t make much $$$ next season!
Here’s a question for everyone: what if Chipper finds out during/just before Spring Training that he will not be able to play at the level he expects and retires… That should free up come $$…
DAP
October 18th, 2010
11:07 am
DS1 Before I’d add poor fielding outfielders, I’d rather take a flier on Ankiel at a fair price. At least he can go and get the ball.
ugh….*facepalm*
DS1
October 18th, 2010
11:07 am
unbelievable
Hanson.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
11:08 am
Infante is also in his last contract year and has peak value. The braves should explore his value and I wouldnt be surprised to see him get traded
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
11:08 am
DS1- I know, Im just wondering because Lew thinks wins are the most important stats for pitchers.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:09 am
DS1… true about the injuries, but other Braves slumped. Didn’t help.
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
11:09 am
Best show on TV is the Closer on TNT.
semibalcoach
October 18th, 2010
11:10 am
DOB–
i read that rockies were going to put baylor in front office position or something like that, is that a demotion from hitting instructor?
do you think a person would turn down a f.o. position to remain in uniform? (other than as a manager)
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:10 am
One last pint about Lowe. Over the past nine years (and yes, I know no one likes wins anymore), he’s won 21, 17, 14, 12, 16, 12, 14, 15, and 16 games (should have been around 21 this year).
This is an irreplaceable pitcher. All baseball players make way too much $$$ according to most of we ordinary earners, Lowe just makes a bit more than most of them, that’s all.
Quite honestly, the MLB minimum would be a good raise for us.
LTBF
October 18th, 2010
11:11 am
I am a little worried about Freddie Freeman, 1 for 15 against AFL minor league pitching. We should sit him down, let him rest till ST.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:12 am
I have a feeling McClouth is staying. I don’t quite think he’s Frenchy 2.0. I’m not sure he’ll find his stroke again, but he’s not a head case like Jeff. He’s taken responsibility, and didn’t whine about going to the minors. They will give him a chance to get better (might not have a choice), and he has the right attitude. It sucks to have to pay him all that money, but I’m rooting for him.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
11:12 am
Gary O, personally I don’t think they should pursue another bench player……..Barbaro Canizarez could definitely play 20 games at 1B and be a good pinch hitter(obviously his defense suxxs but he can hit and he is right handed)..
Prado could play 20 games at 1B…
Matt Diaz, David Ross, and McCann would be awesome if they learned a little 1B.
Resources are very limited, and I think every single one of them needs to go for an OF, even if it’s only Magglio Ordonez….
I think that the Kemp for Jurrjens idea is pretty good for both teams…..But if it happens it needs to be straight up, and the Braves need to sign a pitcher in the FA market, and eventually sign Kemp long term
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
11:12 am
Charles – We couldn’t/didn’t wish to pay the asking price for Cody Ross before waiver deadline. We COULDN’T claim him on waivers because the Giants claimed him, and had the only rights to him at that point. That’s how post-waiver deadline trades work.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
11:13 am
Charles
Florida is in the same division as the Braves. I think we offered Dunn but they wanted Medlen. Also, you are aware of the strained relations between the two teams? Bobby ripped them for firing Fredi, and they refused to honor him in any way on his last visit to Florida (only team to not honor him in some way).
So, later they put him on waivers, and the Giants claimed him BEFORE he could fall to the Braves.
Are the facts getting in the way of your desire to lay blame?
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
11:13 am
Braves get Beltran
Mets get McLouth and KK
FA Signings: Cody Ross or Magglio Ordonez, Vazquez
. Don
October 18th, 2010
11:13 am
Granted, my evaluation was based on how bad things could/may be.
But On the positive side:
Chipper COULD possibly rebound and have a decent season as a hitter and perhaps even play adequate defense.
JJ’s shoulder COULD possible heal/be restored to what it was and him be as effective as he was in his first year.
McLouth COULD possibly start hitting as good as he did in his one good year with the Pirates.
Freeman at first base COULD prove to be a productive major leage hitter.
Lowe, even though a year older, COULD pitch something close to the way he did in the last month.
Assuming that Lowe and JJ are effective along with Hudson and Hanson, the Braves COULD come up with an effective 5th starter from one of their rookies or Kawakmi COULD suddenly start being effective.
Infante COULD be used as a regular in Left Field and have another good year or the Braves COULD someway acquire a good hitting Left Fielder.
Gonzo COULD start playing good defense at Short and start hitting effectively.
And we assume that Prado will bounce back effectively from his injury and that Heyward will be good in his second year and that the Bullpen will be effective.
All of these things COULD happen, but the point is that several of them are probably not very likely.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
11:13 am
jeff r I think it’s good to keep an eye to the future.
right on. the braves will have prado, heyward, freeman, mcann all in the lineup, with young hurlers hanson, jurrjens, minor, beachy, venters, kimbrel, dunn, creating a deep staff.
dont you think thats plenty of youth foundation? i say add some vets to bulk up this team, get a young controllable player if its possible, and he is good enough, but its time to fill up spaces with some proven good players.
keep an eye on the future, but dont sacrifice the present for what could be.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:14 am
Lew’s right about Lowe. The guy’s never been a staff ace, but… Yes, he was hyped as an ace when Wren signed him, but Lowe’s pretty much done what he’s always done: 15/16 wins; close to 200 innings/4.00 ERA. IMO, he’s a good 3 or 4 in a solid rotation.
But, to his credit, Lowe was a stud in the stretch drive and post season. Again, IMO, he earned his money just for how he kept the Braves in the hunt.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:14 am
I don’t know that they’re the most improtant stat, but, then again, I do no longer play fantasy abseball. When they quit determininhg who wins divisions and series by how many wins we have, then I’ll quit attaching importance to them. And if they’re so meaningless, why do so few win that many?
Yeah, there’s other things I look at like ERA, WHIP, AVG against and K to BB rate, but wins mean a lot. They mean everything. The team with the best ERA doesn’t always win it all and no one ever decided a division tile with their WHIP do they?
Besides, we’re talking importance to the team here and NOT who’s winning the Cy Young Award.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:18 am
DAP… I don’t think adding a talent young power prospect subtracts in anyway from the Braves’ competitiveness in 2011. I do think that:
1) a young power prospect is more gettable than a bona fide veteran power bat.
2) the Braves have plenty of veteran help in the lineup; the left side of the infiled (Chipper and Gonzalez fill that bill).
Adam
October 18th, 2010
11:18 am
DOB,
Game 4 of the ‘99 World Series was at Yankee Stadium, not the Ted. I know, I was there. Who can forget a Clemens-Smoltz WS matchup, even if it ended up being a forgettable night for the Bravos? My second World Series clinching game seen in person – unfortunately, only one was a Braves victory.
Mitchell
October 18th, 2010
11:18 am
JASon
October 18th, 2010
2:22 am
It seems like bobby realizes he’s not the greatest manager.
One day, all of these people defending him will wake up and realize what we have been trying to tell them all along: we should have been much more competitive in the postseason than we were. Atlanta natives should have enjoyed at least 3 or 4 championships over the period of time in which we had an embarassment of riches playing for us. The most embarassing thing of all, though, is the fact that so many “southern idiots” (as I call them) still defend him. I am from Atlanta but am not afraid to call it like it is: most people down here are dumb.
Nice.
semibalcoach
October 18th, 2010
11:20 am
raliegh—–can’t stand segewicks forced accent
Jason
October 18th, 2010
11:20 am
Does anyone proof read their columns anymore?
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:21 am
Wins count for pitchers. Do we really talk about great starting pitchers with referencing their total number of wins? Spahn, Maddux, Glavine – all members of the 300 wins club? Doesn’t matter?
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
11:23 am
.Don – None of the promblems you just recited are Bobby’s fault IMO. Now you are predicting failure with Bobby gone. It’s absurd to continue to blame Bobby for future faiure, and a stretch, based on your own assesments of our shortcommings, to blame Bobby for most PAST failure as well. But then, why should you start using truth and logic NOW?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:23 am
Don
What is your solution to fix the team?
(crickets chirping…)
GTSteve
October 18th, 2010
11:23 am
DOB, or anybody else….Why is Pastornicky playing 2nd in AZ Fall League??
DAP
October 18th, 2010
11:25 am
jeff r, i got you, man. i dont think we disagree on this. ideally how the team is made up is not how it can always happen. some teams have young outfielders and no pitching, for instance.
anyways, my goal is to get both, anyways. ive been saying id like to get magglio ordonez and colby rasmus this offseason. im not sure based on wren’s comments, though if he will be making any big trades. because any trade the braves will make would surly involve at pitchers, right? how could a team deal with us and not get some arms?
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
11:26 am
Owl – He doesn’t want a solution. Winning = an end to complaining.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:28 am
GTSteve-To play second in case Martin needs to play third cause Chipper’s either not ready yet or hurt?
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
11:28 am
GTSteve: Looking at Phoenix Desert Dogs roster, they have four shortstops and only one other 2B on that team. So the Braves probably agreed to send him as a 2B, which will give him a chance to play some at another position while getting ABs.
CB
October 18th, 2010
11:28 am
DAP,pitching or top pitching prospects will be traded. Maybe Infante.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
11:29 am
Wins counted, not much anymore, because it depends on the team you’re on, offensive support, defense, and bullpen.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
11:29 am
Owl Hunter: the team does not need to be fixed… just some minor tweaking…
Steve McP
October 18th, 2010
11:29 am
Those people moaning about not getting Ross on waivers. Be aware that the Giants probably took him to block the Padres signing him, only if he had got past both these teams (which was very unlikely) would we have had the chance to sign him.
Signing him before the trade deadline was unlikely as he had an injury just before that and nobody was really sure if he was going to be fit, so it was probably viewed as a big risk.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:29 am
Jason-Why? YOu need employment?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:30 am
raleighbravefan
Seeing the trash that Don and Mitchell spout, they would find something to whine about if we won the next three World Series. “We could have swept them all…”, “The Yankees won more…”, “Bobby’s gonna find a way to get the wins stricken from the records.”
Lew
October 18th, 2010
11:30 am
Tomas-Yeah, those things never mattered before the days of Fantasy Baseball.
balla1881
October 18th, 2010
11:31 am
Trader Jim-
Biggest problem with your trade is that Minaya is no longer in charge of the Mets. Their not likely to make that deal, without an idiot in charge of the team anymore. O, and its in the division-I know we’ve dealt with them in the past but its still very unlikely. Got any other ideas?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:32 am
UnretireBobbyCox
I totally agree. I was just reading Don’s “column” and wondered what his solutions are. Lots of whining, and no ideas. I think they’ll be fine.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
11:32 am
Owl
Don has said before that in order to fix this team Bobby Cox and Roger McDowell needed to be fired and the great manager of the Cardinals should be hired. Due to him being “a great judge of talent and potential production”. He never misses the playoffs!!!!
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:34 am
balla1881
Yeah, I was bummed when Minaya got canned. He would have kept that team in the toilet forever. They have a chance now, at least. Too bad their owners are clowns, too.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:35 am
LaRussa? Haha. Now that they crack down on ‘roids, what could he possibly do for us?
Ted M
October 18th, 2010
11:36 am
$7.75 mil for McLouth next year, WOW. There is absolutely positively no way he will be traded. The Braves would have to pay at least $6.5 mil of that. Nah, no way, nobody would pay $1.25 mil for McLouth.
It’s either the Atl Braves or the Gwinnett Braves for McLouth.
GTSteve
October 18th, 2010
11:36 am
Thanks DOB, that is what I was assuming….and Lew made a good point also, although I don’t think the Braves are counting on Pastornicky until 2012
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
11:36 am
Of course the Braves will be fine… One step at a time. First, Wren fixed the pitching. Now to see if we can upgrade the hitting; personally, I believe the Braves were actually a year ahead of schedule, but I’ll take it. The big question mark will be Chipper: will he come back and perform? He does claim that he will quit if he doesn’t think he can, but it will be very difficult to walk away from a few million dollars. If he does come back and performs AND the Braves can somehow get someone to play outfield AND hit, I believe it will be a fun year next year!
Ted M
October 18th, 2010
11:37 am
Matt Murton? My post was filtered.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
11:40 am
Wins do matter, they just arent the best stat when discussing a players worth. Innings pitched also matter. Like I said Lowe is an above average pitcher making more than he’s worth. Im not so sure where all of this got side tracked. Lowe, according to fangraphs, had a 2.7WAR and worth $10.9 mil. This makes him a very valuable starter for the Braves team.
I like Lowe and Im hoping that he continues his recent trend. The Braves arent going to be able to trade him and Im fine with that.
gte268p
October 18th, 2010
11:41 am
Dave, could you sometime comment on what the prospects look like after next year when Chipper will likely be done (I assume he’ll be back because I believe he’s still our best option at third) and Gonzalez’s contract is up? Do we have anyone in the minors ready to come up and be solid contributors and long term Braves, or will we just be in trouble?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:41 am
If we make the playoffs next year, we’ll be glad we still have Lowe.
VENEZUELA
October 18th, 2010
11:42 am
DOB, speaking of “best-of-the-year” this is one of your best POSTS! of the year!!! really …best of lucks for next season …hope to get some good rumors and news around here and twitter
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
11:43 am
the best thing that I like about Lowe is his ability to eat innings. Id rather see him winning 16-17 games if he could keep his losses under 10 games too. He did have a lot of improvement in ATL this year. IP and BB ratio’s stayed the same. He did give up far less hits and he struck out more. It was a good year for him and I hope it continues. He’s going to be here for 2 more years
b
October 18th, 2010
11:46 am
owlhunter, I have to disagree with you about Nate Mc the carnival act.
He is a head case worse than Jeff F. I have never seen a player go into a bigger hole. There were several times this season Nate would not even make a throw in from the OF. His left field play was below High school level. His base running has gone down hill and his hitting was atrocious.
And I think a lot of it is due to his head. He did not sulk about his demotion because if he did, he would have looked like a buffoon.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
11:47 am
Game 4 of the ‘99 World Series was at Yankee Stadium, not the Ted — Adam
You are correct. Thanks. And actually, including that game in the list would’ve made it nine. It’s eight elimination games at Turner Field, as I said. And the Braves have lost them all. My mistake was including that game. The other eight on the list were correct.
Again, thanks for pointing it out. It’s corrected now in blog.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
11:47 am
Jeff R, all those 300 game winners have something in common, they went deep into games and finished them quite often. Pitchers now(with the exception of Roy Halladay, CC Sabathia, and Cliff Lee) never have CG….
Braves didn’t have a 9 inning CG this year, and they were considered to have one of the best pitching staffs in MLB…And they didn’t have a 20 game winner…..No offensive support and bad defense, were the reasons, it wasn’t lack of talent.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:48 am
DAP… no doubt teams will be after the Braves’ young arms. I’m generally opposed to giving up pitching for position players (never have enough good arms), but IF a GM gave the Braves two or three highly rated major league ready prospects for Jurrjens, for example – say a power bat OF and 2nd or 3rd base prospect – might just be worth it.
Whether or not any GM has that talent to offer is another story, I admit.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
11:51 am
Owl
Larussa is a favorite of the .Dot.douchenator
The quote I posted a bit ago (“The Cardinal Manager is a great judge of talent and potential production.”) was a favorite of .Dot.Don-Key last off-season. It’s second on the all time .Dot.Don re-post list just behind the #1 all time re-post “Remember that it required Glavine to pitch a SHUTOUT in the final game for Cox to even be able to win the ONE.” What a classic!!?!?!?!
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
11:52 am
I like the quality start more than wins
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:54 am
b
I agree that poor play can effect a player mentally, and that’s why McClouth was sent down in the first place. I was complimenting McClouth’s willingness to accept responsibility. Jeff never did that, and he’ll never reach his potential until he does. I’m not saying McClouth is a lock to fully turn it around, but he has a good attitude. It’s definitely make or break for him this season, but hopefully his lack of entitlement will help him. He’s coachable.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
11:55 am
CrazyTrade
The Glavine thing is awesome! “If the Braves didn’t pitch well, and hit well, Bobby would never win anything.” Classic.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:57 am
Tomas… Generally, I’d agree with your assessment.
I’d say this, though, this era – starting pitchers not going deep into games – doesn’t compare to the era when many starting pitchers completed 15-20 games or more a season.
I think baseball historians will look at earlier generations of starting pitchers as superior to the current lot because most were expected to go the distance; they racked up the innings, complete games, shut outs, and the Ws. (Complete games is kinda joke category now.)
The rule still is a pitcher has to complete 5 innings to get a win. Too bad today’s starting pitchers, who may give six innings of well pitched ball and are leading when they leave games, are so reliant on their bullpens to obtain their Ws.
Jack Fate
October 18th, 2010
11:58 am
DOB,
Mad Men finale was interesting. Seems like MM finales do more to set up the next season’s story lines. And Matthew Weiner wrote for David Chase, who never had cliffhangers with Sopranos, which makes sense for both since so much time story time passes from season to season.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
12:00 pm
Beginning with three straight losses to Yankees in 1996 World Series in last 3 playoff games at old Fulton County Stadium, the Braves are 14-24 in home postseason games. They are 14-21 in home postseason games at Turner Field, including 5-15 beginning with back-to-back losses to Yankees in ‘99 (always the damn Yankees….)
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
12:04 pm
C’mon. Trading for Carlos Beltran is not the answer… unless the question was who takes Glaus’ place on the DL.
GTSteve
October 18th, 2010
12:08 pm
It all started with a slider to Jim Leyritz
. Don
October 18th, 2010
12:08 pm
We can express opinions on and on, pro and con relating to Bobby Cox being or not being a good manager.
And opinions can be challenged on either side.
But one thing that is not an opinion and cannnot be challenged is his FAILURE PERCENTAGE relating to World Series Championships compared to Post Season Opportunities — A 93.75 PERCENT FAILURE rate – not even counting this year where admiditally the team did not really have a legitimate shot at the WS. And like it or not, you cannot change the fact that he was lucky to even have the one, with the Braves scoring only one run in the final game and requiring a shutout in order to win.
Gibby
October 18th, 2010
12:10 pm
Two other names I found over the weekend some beat writers said could be available. Carlos Quentin and Rajai Davis. Quentin is available if the White Sox land a big bat for the OF, and Davis could be had to make room for Chris Carter. Just feeding the OF frenzy going on right now.
Also, glad to see all the love for “Chuck” last night. Good show
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
12:15 pm
Rajai Davis…?!
REALLY?!
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
12:17 pm
GTSteve-
Yeah, and sadly, 14 years later, they still haven’t learned with the sliders thrown to both Sanchez and Huff
LTBF
October 18th, 2010
12:18 pm
I do not like quality starts. Three runs in 6 inns= a 4.50 ERA. THAT IS NOT GOOD
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
12:19 pm
.Don… there are countless other managers who didn’t even make it to the World Series. To be able to “fail” as you call it, one has to get there first. Which also means that Bobby must have done something right in the post-season games leading up to the World Series.
Oh, and Bobby Cox did NOT throw that pitch to Jim Leyritz.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
12:20 pm
Derek Lowe 15 quality starts= 16 wins
Tim Hudson 25 quality starts= 17 wins
Run support
NEW CARS
October 18th, 2010
12:21 pm
I’m afraid that Cody Ross is playing his way out of our price range. He’s hitting more like he did in the past and the Marlins are looking like fools for giving him away. Dunn would have been better than anyone in their pen and it looks like Ross might have firmed up our outfield. What’s done is done, but for people on here criticize Wren for not getting him here, they might revisit all the conjecture at the time. We won’t know the facts, possibly ever, but most respected baseball writers were in agreement that the Braves approached Florida on numerous occasions about his availability.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
12:23 pm
^^ Cody Ross is playing his way out of a non-tender…
If I recall correctly, he’s still under team control for 2011, so therefore, we don’t have a shot at him anyways.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
12:24 pm
Carlos Beltran is at a level hwere the Braves could buy low. It seems that every one on here is looking for players at a buy high time frame. There are players out there that had sub par years or were coming back from injuries that were not playing 100%.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:25 pm
Cody Ross deal fell apart over a box of Cuban cigars. The Braves were going to send Jason Heyward and Julio Teheran for Ross and a box of Cuban Cigars for Bobby’s going away present, and the Marlins nix’d the deal.
CB
October 18th, 2010
12:27 pm
Tomas,how many quality starts for Hanson with only 10 wins? We need to not give credit except how the pitcher performed on that given start or starts.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
12:27 pm
CB pitching or top pitching prospects will be traded. Maybe Infante.
maybe, but thats not what wren told DOB.
from the blog article But the Braves aren’t going to trade potential future No. 1 starters Julio Teheran and Randall Delgado, and Wren makes it sound like they’re inclined not to trade other young arms already in the majors, such as rumored potential trade target Jair Jurrjens.
im not sure if the braves can pull off a huge deal without giving up one of tehran or delgado. there is other pitching, but those are the big prizes.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:28 pm
Trader Jim
So you’re saying KK and McLouth for Beltran? Would the Mets be sending some cash?
I’d do that deal if the Mets would send some cash along. Not sure what Beltran is owed though……. I think he’s on the hook for 18 million this year, but not sure about any future years.
Andy S.
October 18th, 2010
12:29 pm
You know as much as this will be a pipe dream – I’d kinda like to see Chip restructure his contract and give back some of the money he is owed next season. He’s made plenty of it in his career, and he’s only won one World Series championship. If he restructured his contract so Wren would have a little more cash to play with and say, make a solid offer to Crawford to be his/our table setter so that he can knock in 100 RBIs again it may be a good thing for the team AND him.
Dont get me wrong, I am a HUGE fan of Chip, he’s a great asset to the team, and has earned every cent of his money. But I guess if I was in his shoes would. I would want the World Series ring more than the money at this point.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:29 pm
DAP
And after FW got burned 2 years ago, I don’t see him showing his hand either. Frank is not stupid either, he will listen to offers.
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
12:31 pm
I think the Braves might have jumped the gun on hiring a new manager so quickly… apparently some of us refuse to move on. This is gonna take a while- and even then, will the Bobby Cox sucks talk ever stop? Hey, I’m having trouble paying my credit card bill this month… wanna blame him for that too? Just remember this: Bobby built that team of the 90s while he was GM in late 80s. The 90s were really good for the Braves. I’d still rather get to the WS and lose than not get there at all.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
12:32 pm
And like it or not, you cannot change the fact that he was lucky to even have the one, with the Braves scoring only one run in the final game and requiring a shutout in order to win.—-.Don
Don, for some reason I always get confused with this was it Tom Glavine or John Smoltz who pitched the shut-out? One thing is certainly clear who ever it was pitching the great performance was a direct reflection on the astounding conditioning and training from Leo. With Roger as the coach they would’ve pulled the pitcher after 6 innings.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
12:33 pm
^^ Tom Glavine 8 IP 2 H
CB
October 18th, 2010
12:34 pm
DAP,what I was referring to was we have nothing else to offer other than our pitching or prospects. They will not trade any of the few good position players we have.
LTBF
October 18th, 2010
12:35 pm
WHIP is better judge of pitching.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
12:37 pm
make a solid offer to Crawford to be his/our table setter
Crawford hates hitting leadoff, and with his OBP, it’s no wonder. What IS a wonder is that folks still want to spend nine figures on a guy with his skill set.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
12:37 pm
P-Town Brave ©
Glav or smoltz was Sarcasm I know who pitched it.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
12:37 pm
Carlos Beltran:01/11/05: Signed seven-year, $119 million contract w/full NTC ($11 million signing bonus). 2009: $18.5 million, 2010: $18.5 million, 2011: $18.5 million, 2012: Free Agent
DS1
October 18th, 2010
12:38 pm
Andy S
Not going to happen, unless he retires. Then he might negotiate a long term personal services contract. Chipper has renegotiated before, and signed for less than market value. I don’t think the Braves are interested in asking him to forgo his pay again.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
12:40 pm
Giants GM Brian Sabean hinted Sunday that outfielder Cody Ross is likely to be tendered a contract this offseason.
Ross earned $4 million this season and will see a decent-sized raise via salary arbitration heading into 2011. But the Giants have been impressed with the 29-year-old, especially in the postseason. “His situation is not daunting,” Sabean said. “His number isn’t going to go off the map.” Ross has said that he would like to work out a multi-year contract.
Source: San Jose Mercury News
CB
October 18th, 2010
12:41 pm
Scoots,agree 100%. Why do we keep bringing up names that don’t fit our needs? You might lose your PAW application if you keep that up. lol
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
12:44 pm
Beltran is a shell of his former self, and has an awful attitude. He’s one of the faces of the Mets failures. No thanks.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
12:47 pm
Carl Crawford will be a Red Sox next season…
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
12:49 pm
“They are 14-21 in home postseason games at Turner Field…”DOB .
Maybe the Braves don’t need home field advantage after all.
Trader Jim,
I would consider trading Nate and KK (~$13.2 mil) for Beltran ($18.5 mil), if the Mets would send $2.65 mil to cover half of the difference.
But I would still be in the market for a legit left fielder.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
12:54 pm
Gary O: That would be a concession I am sure.
We get a CF with HR potential and relieve ourselves of KK and McOut. If Beltran doesn’t workout what have we lost?
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
12:55 pm
Braves get: Braun from Brewers
Brewers get: Infante and JJ
Smitty
October 18th, 2010
12:57 pm
I’m curious if the A’s will make Rajai Davis available with Chris Carter and Michael Taylor seemingly ready for the bigs
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
12:58 pm
^^ Would NEVER happen
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
1:00 pm
2B- Prado
RF- Heyward
3B- Chipper
LF-Braun
C- McCann
CF- Betran
1B- Freeman
SS- Gonzalez
Starting Staff:
Hudson
Lowe
Hanson
Vazquez
Beachy
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:01 pm
P-Town Brave
I assume you’re talking about the Braun trade, in which case , I agree. I’ve seen Braun thrown around here alot. Why would the Brewers trade the face of their franchise for nothing? Braun is going nowhere.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
1:03 pm
Why? Brewers need to make something happen… They vastly improve a huge weakness in their pitching staff and replace Braun in LF with Infante. The Braves fill their needs too.
Smitty
October 18th, 2010
1:04 pm
Trader Jim: do you realize he is the face of their franchise
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:04 pm
CB Tommy Hanson 19 quality starts 10-11…..better ERA, more strikeouts than Lowe, more innings…
Run support
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
1:04 pm
For nothing??? an All Star and a potential Cy Young winner?
Buckeyebrave
October 18th, 2010
1:04 pm
Gary O, I’m not big on trading within our own division but trading KK and Nate for Beltran might be interesting because Beltran is in his walk year and we get rid of KK, who is totally useless to us. Beltran might be real motivated to stick it to the Mets and his next contract is on the line. If he’s healthy and motivated he fills you big hitter and centerfielder role.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
1:04 pm
Braves get: Braun from Brewers
Brewers get: Infante and JJ
If I was the Brewers I would pass. It’s a good starting point but, I think they value Braun more than that.
If Braun was a Brave would you take JJ and Infante for him?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:05 pm
Jim
It will NEVER happen. If the Brewers were dumb enough to trade Braun (especially with Fielder leaving), it would take way more than you propose. Possibly a Teheran or Delgado. Think about what you’re saying: “replace Braun with Infante.” Really?
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
1:06 pm
So what… they need to do something different.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
1:06 pm
Don’t forget about JJ in their rotation
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:07 pm
KK and Mclouth for Beltran, you guys serious……No way the Mets take that
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:07 pm
Tradin the best player in your franchise, who you control affordably for several years is not the way to do something different. If the Brewers GM made that deal, he’d be unemployed thee next day. Think Hart, Gamel or someone like that.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:08 pm
Tomas
You’re right, now that Minaya is gone.
Gibby
October 18th, 2010
1:10 pm
Gamel interests me if the price is right. He could play LF for a year or so then move to 3rd when Chipper retires
bozz
October 18th, 2010
1:10 pm
I brought this up a couple months ago, and I’m not sure of the numbers and how they’d match up, but what about going after Delmon Young of the Twins? I bring this up because I live in Twins country and there are rumblings about moving Joe Mauer to left to save his knees.
Young came into his own offensively this season, and while he IS a liability in left field, he (if he keeps up his development) should be good for .275-300 BA/15-25 HR/90-120 RBI.
The Twinkies love pitching, so maybe we could send them a quality starter and a minor league infielder or something.
Thoughts?
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:11 pm
No way Braun goes to ATL for anything less than JJ AND Teheran
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:12 pm
Delmon’s vaue is high, and it would cost alot, but I’d love to have him. I’d like to see Wren at least ask about what it would take.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:13 pm
^^ It only would have taken Yunel last season…
We sure missed the boat on that one!
ECU Alum
October 18th, 2010
1:14 pm
I don’t know if anyone here has already posted this but I got this text earlier and thought you guys would enjoy….
Cody Ross spelled backwards: Ssory Doc!
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:15 pm
ECU Alum
That’s hilarious!
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:17 pm
I have a bad feeling that we’ll end up with more of a Ludwick type.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:18 pm
Ludwick would be a step up from what we’ve had to endure…
DS1
October 18th, 2010
1:18 pm
If I were the Milwaukee Brewers, Braun would cost you Freeman, Teheran, Jurrjens and Venters.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
1:20 pm
The true wild card for our team next year is Chipper Jones. Whether he comes back or not, and if he does, what will he be able to provide?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:21 pm
P-Town
I agree, but I hope we get a true difference maker. That, or we get a Ludwick type, with a real productive CF.
Murph
October 18th, 2010
1:22 pm
Why all this talk of Beltran? The Mets won’t trade their main guy, the face of the team, to a team within the same division. Not going to happen. Talking about it is a waste of time.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:23 pm
KK, Mclouth, and something else for Carlos Beltran might work. But it needs to be a nice prospect at least. Somebody like JJ Hoover
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:23 pm
^^ Like I said before, good luck with that…
We may be able to somehow get KK off our hands, but we’re not getting rid of both KK and Nate…
Therefore, its a much greater likelyhood that Nate McLouth is somewhere in the OF to open the 2011 season.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
1:25 pm
Has everyone gone mad in ATL, remember how we started the run in 92′, we had good speed at the top of lineup, solid power thru middle, & ability to manufacture runs. Look at what these upstarts like Texas & others are doing. I think San Fran is a mirror image of what is wrong with our team, get some sound pitching & wait for the long ball !!! Every inning should be an adventure for the opposing pitcher, hit & runs, double steals, suicide bunts or whatever it takes to make teams fear us. If these guys get back to the old sandlot days & have some fun out there, the leadership & fire we’ve been looking for just may return. Say what you want about a lot of these managers out there, but you can tell when these teams are having fun out there.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:26 pm
Murph
After what the Mets have been through with Beltran, they might trade him. I just don’t think we should go after him. His knees are shot, and he gets lazy.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:26 pm
Murph-
Since when was Beltran “face of the franchise”…
Yes, he may have received the big contract, but ask anyone, David Wright is the franchise player.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:27 pm
ReddJonn
I don’t think that leadership, fire, and fun were a problem this year. I do agree that we need more “small ball.”
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:28 pm
Beltran is making 18.5 million in 2011
Klaus
October 18th, 2010
1:28 pm
Braun will cost JJ, Delgado and the best OF prospect we have to start
Murph
October 18th, 2010
1:28 pm
Regardless of who you think Beltran is the “Face o’ the Mets” they aren’t going to trade him to Atlanta. Think about it. It won’t happen.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:29 pm
I know it would never happen, but I’d love to have David Wright. Like I said, it won’t ever happen, but I felt bad for him being stuck in the baseball purgatory that is the Mets. The guy is a winner, but even he couldn’t lead those losers.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
1:29 pm
Not going to happen. Talking about it is a waste of time.
Murph, if contributors are restricted from “waste of time” trade ideas, we certainly won’t ever have to worry about hitting 10000 posts.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:31 pm
Braun is untouchable, and we all know it…..I’d be willing to do something like JJ for Braun straight up since the Brewers aren’t then forget about Braun
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:32 pm
I would think Braun would cost somewhere around here:
One of :
JJ
Hanson
One of :
Kimbrell
Venters
One of :
Delgado
Teheran
Vizcaino
AND: A high level position prospect
Rodney Derrick
October 18th, 2010
1:32 pm
Just watched season finales for Rubicon and Mad Men on the DVR. Knew all along that….I won’t tell as that would give it away to those who have not seen the show as most of us see these shows after their original run times.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:33 pm
The Mariners have a new manager…
You think he likes Asians
Murph
October 18th, 2010
1:33 pm
yeah scoots, I know… then I guess I should throw out my suggestion of getting Tex back from the Yankees for Hanson, JJ, and Minor. Teach him how to pitch and we’ll be printing tickets to the World Series.
Makes about as much sense as going after Beltran.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:33 pm
Just a quick question. Isn’t Rasmus’ brother in our system? I could be wrong.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:34 pm
A Braun trade would be worse than the Tex trade
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:36 pm
Owl Hunter, yes he is
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
1:36 pm
^^ Yes, nothing like fueling major parts to the Rangers first ever playoff series victory
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:38 pm
If we trade for Braun, we can fuel the Brewers’ first World Series.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
1:38 pm
Every inning should be an adventure for the opposing pitcher, hit & runs, double steals, suicide bunts or whatever it takes to make teams fear us
Unfortunately, those are not the offensive strategems that cause fear. More like annoyance.
If you want real fear, I mean fire-and-brimstone, wrath-of-God, curl-up-in-a-fetal-ball fear, you don’t get it with bunts and stolen bases. You get it by showing the opponent that they’ll be lucky to get three runs, and that your team has the ability to get that many and more on a single pitch. From multiple spots in the lineup.
Steve-OH had it just right…get some bats and take some names. Make some pitchers cry for mama, and spit on them when they do.
cabravesfan
October 18th, 2010
1:39 pm
Braun’s also got a full no-trade clause that goes through next season…but it really doesn’t matter because the Brewers are not going to trade him
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
1:40 pm
Gary O, do you think the Mets would want McLouth and KK for two of the 25 spots on their roster?
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
1:40 pm
No way the Brewers trade Braun, unless they get blown away with an offer. And I hope the Braves dont blow them away.
And I dont think the Mets would trade Beltran either. Imagine if gets healthy, and plays like his old self?
The bad thing for the Braves, the lowered expectations syndrome that somebody mentioned. I can see Wren being creative, and getting a Ludwick type. And then he will point out how Ludwick is an improvement over what we had last year.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:41 pm
Ludwick SUUUUUCCCKKKKEED in San Diego
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
1:43 pm
And then he will point out how Ludwick is an improvement over what we had last year.
And that would be true. Unfortunately, it would also be true that he’s still [enter player name here].
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
1:44 pm
Thanks DOB. (re: your Baylor comment)
He’d be a nice early X-Mas present..(LOL).
AND for all of you Pendleton-haters, I follow former Phillie John Kruk on Twitter and he follows me, and even he said the Braves hitting woes especially down the stretch were NOT because of T.P., but he did say Brooks screwed (better word than he used) over Bobby…BIG TIME.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:45 pm
What would it take to acquire Rasmus?
Randall Delgado, and Stephen Marek enough?
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
1:46 pm
Owl Hunter: Yes, Rasmus’ brother is a Braves minor league pitcher. Cory Rasmus, 22, was the 38th overall pick of the 2006 draft. He went 6-9 with a 3.18 ERA in 28 games (20 starts) last season at Rome and Myrtle Beach.
Trader Jim
October 18th, 2010
1:47 pm
IMHO the Braves will trade one of their yound starting pitchers like JJ for a big name OFer. Why is it so far fetched to think the Braves will not get a big name in return for a young pitcher with loads of potential like JJ. We sell the Braves players short. GM’s know you have to trade quality for quality or bad contracts for bad contracts, take a chance because nothing is guaranteed and keep your fingers crossed!!!
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
1:48 pm
Cory Rasmus curve ball was rated the best in the organization I think I read that somewhere last year.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
1:49 pm
For the one blogger than said *The Closer* is the best show on TV…
I beg to differ………gotta be CSI, Miami, and not the Kyra Sedgewick is ugly, but Emily Proctor is WAY hotter than Kyra..(LOL)
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
1:49 pm
I dunno about Rasmus…we’re already pretty lefty-heavy
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
1:49 pm
@ Owl Hunter I beg to differ , true we did have a lot of ” fiery ” wins I’ll give them that. It Just seemed that during the last 15 games of the season, including the playoff series. Guys seemed tense not loose or having ” fun”. Also during that same stretch when we barely staying afloat I definitely did not see one single player step to the forefront & show ” leadership” by calling guys out, it was always Bobby making comments about opportunities missed.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
1:50 pm
Maybe we should get Micah Owings from the Reds, and move him to left field. And then talk Ryan Freel out of retirement to leadoff and play CF. Lock down lineup then.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
1:50 pm
From Buster’s ESPN blog today, list of pitchers with most postseason starts without a loss to begin their careers:
Orel Hershiser: 10 (1985 to 1995)
Roy Oswalt: 9 (2004 to ‘10)
Orlando Hernandez: 9 (1998 to 2000)
John Smoltz: 9 (1991 to ‘92)
DS1
October 18th, 2010
1:51 pm
Frank in KS
No way. It’s gotta be Guy Fieri in Triple D; Diners, Drive-ins and Dives!
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
1:51 pm
John Smoltz had 9 wins in just 2 postseasons? WOW
DS1
October 18th, 2010
1:52 pm
Oswalt dodged a bullit against the Reds earlier this post season.
MFin04
October 18th, 2010
1:53 pm
So the Braves are at 75 million with Chipper and KK’s contract. Trade KK with 4 million and you can take almost 3 million of the books. Surely someone would take on KK’s salary if it was around 3 million right? That puts you at about 72 million, and Braves have 18-20 million to spend? Surely they could get a big name bat with that right?
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:53 pm
Pennant races are stressful. I wouldn’t want to see our guys joking around. The end of the season is all business. Also, calling out your teammates through the media does not constitute leadership. None of us knoww how it was in the clubhouse. Furthermore, Bobby never shows all of his cards to the press.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
1:53 pm
tomas, probably not. the cardials needs include starting pitching, lefty relief, offensive upgrade at 3rd, SS, or 2nd, and an outfielder, if they trade rasmus. and they need whatever players they get to be dirt cheap.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
1:53 pm
LMAO…DSI
yeaahhhh…..righttttt
LOL
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
1:55 pm
MFin04
Don’t forget the raises owed to our arbitration eligibles.
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
1:55 pm
If I were the Milwaukee Brewers, Braun would cost you Freeman, Teheran, Jurrjens and Venters.
Braun isn’t going anywhere. I’m not sure why these names are brought up.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
1:56 pm
DSI – I’m still calling a Rangers/Giants WS
I know I’m going off on a limb here, but I just have this gut feeling…the Phils are going to sqander it and so are the Yanks…(woohoo).
Yanks are lucky to be getting out of Texas with a split……bc by all rights, they should be down 2-0.
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
1:57 pm
What would it take to acquire Rasmus?
Probably a lot. More than most are thinking here, imo.
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
1:58 pm
What IS a wonder is that folks still want to spend nine figures on a guy with his skill set.
He may very well get too big of a check. But I think, at least from my perspective, the desire is not so much the money, it’s the revolving door in LF and the persistent beat in the off-season to “find a big bat”.
The team needs another good hitter. And they need one they can stick out there for a few years at least. Over the last, near decade, the distribution of games played to number of players playing the position is disturbing. It’s been since 2003 that the team has had a steady, good hitting Left Fielder… and that was Chipper Jones. Prior to that it was the mid to late 90’s with Ryan Klesko.
Crawford, Wreth, Holliday, Bay, and on and on may not be the most ideal financial investment long term. But the longing for them is set in the desire to have some one proven in the position for any length of time.
Year_Player___________Games_Players Used
2010 Melky Cabrerra.....84.............7
2009 Garret Anderson...124.............6
2008 Gregor Blanco......77.............8
2007 Matt Diaz..........95.............5
2006 Ryan Langerhans...104.............5
2005 Kelly Johnson......79.............5
2004 Chuck Thomas.......70.............7
2003 Chipper Jones.....149.............6
2002 Chipper Jones.....152.............7
2001 B.J. Surhoff......129.............7
2000 Reggie Sanders.....69.............8
1999 Gerald Williams...120.............7
1998 Ryan Klesko.......120.............5
1997 Ryan Klesko.......138.............6
1996 Ryan Klesko.......144.............7
1995 Ryan Klesko.......102.............7
1994 Ryan Klesko........63.............6
rammerjammer
October 18th, 2010
1:59 pm
If you want an outfielder that’s gonna make an impact, you better be ready to trade a pitcher that’s gonna make an impact.
That would be Hanson.
I think JJ has to have a bounceback season to regain high value. Hudson and Lowe are staying put. Minor and Beachy are too unproven to get anything but prospects…plus one will surely be in next year’s rotation. And Teheran and Delgado are apparently, from what DOB wrote, not in play.
So there you are. Last man standing is Hanson.
You want the stud outfielder? Give up the stud pitcher.
old1414
October 18th, 2010
1:59 pm
Braves will get one of:
Xavier Nady
Jorge Cantu
Ty Wigginton
Fernando Tatis
Each could back up first and play LF along with fitting the Braves budget.They will also try to sign a veteran arm like Grant Balfour or Jesse Crain. Don’t see enough money for much more.
,
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:01 pm
Hey DOB do we have any legitimate OFs in the farm system with any type of speed that can steal some bases & play decent defense ??? I still say even if we can get an OF this off-season that has a glove & can get on base, steal a few, it may be the answer instead of looking for power from him as well. I know we still need a big bat, so spend the big money on the power, but look around for a bargain OF lead-off man, it would set up our 3,4, & 5 hitters properly.
Roll Tide
October 18th, 2010
2:01 pm
trade jj to la or st louis for either kemp or rasmus. (try to throw in Mclouth or kk)
sign maglio 1 yr 7 mil
Sign vazquez 1 yr 5 mil
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
2:01 pm
old1414
If this is our offseason, I’m jumping off a cliff.
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
2:02 pm
do you think the Mets would want McLouth and KK for two of the 25 spots on their roster?
So many potential jokes and pot shots can be had at the Mets expense… where to begin? It’s like over load for all the potential ways to squeeze these two into their roster.
Lollygagger
October 18th, 2010
2:02 pm
depending on just how strained the relationship with the Cardinals is and how badly the Cardinals want to get rid of Rasmus… would the Cards possibly consider trading McLouth for Rasmus straight up, with the Braves paying for most or all of McLouth’s salaray? I don’t think that Rasmus makes that much (close to minimum?), so if that’s the case then the Braves wouldn’t be adding all that much salary to the books, per se. Just a crazy thought…
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
2:03 pm
I’m not saying that we’ll get Crawford or Werth, but I’m tired of all this bottom feeding. We could get aa Nady, but we’d better get a real bat, too.
Andy S.
October 18th, 2010
2:05 pm
well i wasnt saying that the Braves should ASK Chip to give back some money, I was just saying if I were him (hanging up the cleats after this season) the World Series ring would mean more to me than the money owed to me in my last season. So I would be more inclined to give some back so Frank Wren could have some more to play with in getting an outfield bat.
I think we need to bring some speed back to Atlanta to our lead off spot, hence why I think Crawford is the prize. I know he will be overpaid, but somehow, somewhere, we need to get speed. Maybe Chone Figgins to play left? I remember that there was talk earlier in the season for a Figgins/Kawakami straight up swap.
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
2:05 pm
Just a crazy thought…
McLouth straight up for Rasmus is crazy all right.
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
2:08 pm
The team needs another good hitter. And they need one they can stick out there for a few years at least. Over the last, near decade, the distribution of games played to number of players playing the position is disturbing.
Very good post, TennesseePaul. Say no to the revolving door that is Left Field for the Atlanta Braves.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:09 pm
Andy S
That is not really allowed by the agreement between the players association and the clubs.
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
2:09 pm
Andy S.
Where do you ever hear about a player doing that? There are several reasons why that doesn’t happen. Let’s start with the players union causing a stink over it.
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
2:10 pm
DOB,
I wouldn’t want them on my roster, but this is the Mets we are talking about
I dont think the Braves will get good value for JJ, because he is coming off an injury, and nobody knows what to expect. If this was last off-season, his value was very high.
But right now, I think the best thing to do is give him another year and hope he stays healthy and pitches like we know he can.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
2:11 pm
jeffrey d: good catch. i guess we all make typos in this biz. Buster must’ve meant STARTS to begin postseason career, not wins. I just went back and checked, and Smoltz indeed had nine starts before his first postseason loss, and those nine were over those two postseasons. He went 5-0 in nine starts during the ‘91-92 postseasons.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:11 pm
@ Owl Hunter I’m sorry pal, that the same stressful approach is why we only have one ring. This is baseball not brain surgery, someone is going to win & lose, in the end it is still a game. The same game that all these guys grew up playing & now earn their money from. Whenever players forget that they don’t stay around long. Yes its serious, but you can’t tell me guys like Brady, Jeter, & Kobe don’t have fun out there !!! It’s time for the tightwad, sitting on pins & needles attitude to change for the Braves.
Andy S.
October 18th, 2010
2:11 pm
excuse me, I meant…
“restructuring the contract”
Owl Hunter
October 18th, 2010
2:15 pm
ReddJonn
Does Kobe seriously look like he’s having fun down the stretch of the season?!? “Having fun” is not a guarantee for success. Being loose to a certain degree is fine, but this ain’t littlee league. The playoff run is about getting the job done. Bobby was probably the loosest manager ever. I don’t get your logic.
Brave Hokie
October 18th, 2010
2:15 pm
Long story short: the Braves will neglect what wins post-season Baseball games: timely POWER hitting and bury their heads in the pitching mound mumbling about the “the good ole” days of glavine smoltz maddux ~ who never won squat besides ‘95.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
2:16 pm
efrim Probably a lot. More than most are thinking here, imo.
thats pretty vague, while also getting in a dig at the blog IQ.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:17 pm
Folks
I totally understand the desire of fans to have a LF’er who we could count on for years to come. And the need for speed, is unquestioned.
Problem is we still have our budget restraints.
I guarantee Frank Wren is thinking the same things. But with the budget being what it is, you might not get the answers you are looking for.
Some times I get a crazy desire for a great steak. I could go to Ruth’s Chris, but I don’t have the cash, and I don’t think they’ll take my half broken down weed whacker in for trade.
So, I go to Albertsons and pick up a rib eye for 7 bucks, go home and throw it on the grill. Might not be the best, but it’s the best I can afford.
I have confidence in FW that he will do all in his power to add some stability, some hitting prowess, and some D to our outfield this winter; without mortgaging the farm too much.
Patience, grasshopper………
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
2:17 pm
DOB – wasn’t really a catch…I was thinking Smoltz actually did that and was marvelling at the accomplishment. I know he’s had a spectacular postseason career….guess it wasn’t that spectacular
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
2:18 pm
1. Non-tender Melky Cabrera, and Matt Diaz.
2. Resign Matt Diaz to a 2 yr deal worth 3 million.
3. Dump KK, gonna have to eat at least 2 million.
4. Trade Randall Delgado, and Stephen Marek for Colby Rasmus.
5. Sign Magglio Ordonez to a 1 yr deal worth 5 million with 3 million in incentives.
6. Teach Matt Diaz to play 1B.
Starting Lineup:
1. 2B Martin Prado
2. RF Jason Heyward
3. 3B Chipper Jones
4. C Brian McCann
5. LF Magglio Ordonez
6. CF Colby Rasmus
7. 1B Freddy Freeman
8. SS Alex Gonzalez
Bench
9. C David Ross
10. OF Nate Mclouth
11. LF/1B Matt Diaz
12. UTIL Omar Infante
13. IF Diory Hernandez
Starting pitchers:
14. SP Tim Hudson
15. SP Derek Lowe
16. SP Tommy Hanson
17. SP Jair Jurrjens
18. SP Mike Minor
19. RHP Brandon Beachy
20. RHP Cristian Martinez
21. LHP Mike Dunn
22. LHP Eric O’flaherty
23. RHP Peter Moylan
24. LHP Johnny Venters
25. RHP Craig Kimbrell
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
2:19 pm
TennPaul, I understand the desire, just not the target of the affection, LOL.
Just because all the Braves’ OF girls were too ugly, even at closing time, doesn’t mean posters should be blinded by the first pretty ankle they see. Crawford might be the pretty girl you dance with, but he ain’t the one you take home to mama. Braves need some mama-taking-home stuff out there, LOL.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:21 pm
Andy
I hear where you are coming from, but unless Chipper can’t make the bell, he’s going to get full pay. I just don’t see him doing something like that. Besides, for the union to put it’s blessing on the deal, it’d have to be for more money overall. Do you really want to be paying him 8-9 million per year for a few years after he is done playing?
Patience, my friend. Crawford is not on FW’s radar screen. Neither is Werth.
chris
October 18th, 2010
2:25 pm
how about this… trade for colby rasmus. and sign andruw jones to platoon with mclouth.
braves get: colby rasmus
cardinals get: minor, dunn, delgado, and pastornicky
NEW CARS
October 18th, 2010
2:26 pm
To get what we’re looking for, a true impact bat, we are either going to have to trade the house or take someone with some warts. If you look at what the Rangers did, they put a couple of guys out there that had warts, Hamilton and Cruz, and built around them. Vlad worked out well for them, but his body wouldn’t have help up in LF for 140 games for us.
Garza and Volquez are similar to Juurjens and they brought Young and Hamilton in trades, two young but high upside athletic outfielders. The guys like that on the market are the Uptons, Chris Young, Adam Jones, Colby Rasmus, Markakis, Zobrist, Pence, Kemp, Michael Morse, Delmon Young. Alex Gordon and Matt Gamel also fit into that profile, but both are lefties and better suited to 3b. Markakis is a lefty with a little higher salary, but has performed well over the past 3-4 years. I like Zobrist and he had a disappointing year, but I question how well we match up with the Rays as they have young pitching as well.
It’s going to be interesting as we move forward, but I would be stunned if Wren doesn’t move some pitching to get an impact bat of some sort. All these guys are south of 30 and that’s the direction I would like to see the team move.
A year from now, when Freeman, Heyward, Prado, McCann and hopefully the new outfielder we added this offseason are entrenched, I would be ok at looking for a veteran to plug in to a spot like LF or SS. But this year, I want another potential building block
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:27 pm
Rasmus and Kemp seem to be the two names that are out there. Either is possible. Neither is perfect.
If FW can swing a deal for either of these guys and still have Teheran afterwards, probably a good deal.
So, if we got Kemp and moved McLouth over to LF and he remembers how to hit, then that would be a good winter. Same with Rasmus. He’d make us lefty heavy, but we could endure worse.
scoots
I don’t want no pretty girls in LF! Give me the Ugly Betty’s!
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
2:27 pm
Frank KS – I’m sticking with the closer, but totally agree that Emily Proctor is hot… AND she is from Raleigh. Her parents still live here.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:29 pm
@ Owl Hunter you were the one who used the word stressful in your earlier post about the Bravos down the stretch this year. I was stating those players who stay loose & don’t wear their emotions on their sleeve i.e. tightwad. Even after a long season & getting challenged by OKC & Phoenix, Kobe still was loose & having fun never saw him sweat once. We need that type of swagger here if we want to be real contenders in the future. Hate to admit it but, Philly has had it the last 3yrs.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:29 pm
NEW CARS
Amen!
Is Matt Murton playing in J@pan now? I always thought he could be an OK outfielder.
Shawn
October 18th, 2010
2:30 pm
chris,
You’d trade that much for Rasmus? Why in the world would you trade that much for anything but a legit superstar player? Its dumb. Will the Cards ask for that much? Of course, and maybe even more. But it’s asinine to trade all that for Rasmus.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:30 pm
Frank
So what you got against my man Guy!
DAP
October 18th, 2010
2:32 pm
reddjonn68 I still say even if we can get an OF this off-season that has a glove & can get on base, steal a few, it may be the answer instead of looking for power from him as well.
how many runs do you get for stealing a base?
by the way, matt young at AAA fits your description.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:33 pm
@ Owl Hunter I don’t get your logic on Bobby being loose, it didn’t transfer to the team well. Too many times to count of when the cameras panned the dugout his teams looked uptight.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:35 pm
@ DAP I don’t have the answer to that question call the Texas Rangers they may can answer better than me !!!
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:35 pm
DAP
I wonder why Matt Young wasn’t on the AFL invite list? Could it be that there is no “there” there?
Just wondering………
DS1
October 18th, 2010
2:36 pm
Burrito time!
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
2:37 pm
Matt Young is like David Eckstein.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:38 pm
@ DAP after watching the Melky Cabrera, Nate McClouth, & the Rick Ankiel experiments, it was just a suggestion. I don’t think it would hurt worse that shotty OF defense & no production at the plate, could it ?????
DAP
October 18th, 2010
2:39 pm
reddjonn68 I don’t have the answer to that question call the Texas Rangers they may can answer better than me !!!
ok, i asked them. they said stealing a base is worth zero runs, unless its home plate. they told me to tell you hitting for power works much better.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
2:39 pm
Burrito time!
A few more now realize who you were in your previous life!
Shawn
October 18th, 2010
2:39 pm
Delgado, Minor and something like Hicks is all I’d offer for Rasmus. No way in hell I trade Jurrjens, a proven big league pitcher. He’s also very good when he’s healthy. Even Mike Minor I’d be touchy on dealing because he’s a lefty and will more than likely make a decent to above average pitcher in the bigs one day. We are short on starting LHP. Wouldn’t want to see him dealt.
Problem is, teams will want their hands on Atlanta’s pitching. They’ll want it and move on if Wren balks at any point for a young hitter like Rasmus. Throw Kemp in that category as well. It’s not as easy as some of you think to make trades AND keep their good arms in tact.
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
2:41 pm
thats pretty vague, while also getting in a dig at the blog IQ
Someone just posted a McLouth for Rasmus swap based on La Russa and him not getting along. I’ve seen several “trade X mediocre player for Rasmus just because he is hated by the manager”. Sorry if I offended you, but as I have said since the start, people are undervaluing Rasmus based on the behind the scenes crap he and La Russa got into. Colby is the only position player on that team worth anything besides Pujols and Holliday(from an offensive standpoint, Yadier ain’t much with the stick) and he is making nothing right now. He is going to cost a lot. I have no idea of the exact deal, but it’s not like the Braves will be the only one interested. A lot of teams would be after the kid.
Ease™ in Sandy Springs
October 18th, 2010
2:42 pm
Burrito time!
A few more now realize who you were in your previous life!
There’s a dude in Utah that eats alot of burrito’s
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
2:42 pm
It appears Ross will be tendered a contract after all
chris
October 18th, 2010
2:43 pm
shawn- yea, i would. just depends on what else is out there in the trade market. but yea, braves still have beachy, teheran, o’ flaherty, and hicks so the team wouldnt miss out too much.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:44 pm
@ DAP do you watch baseball other than the Braves, Texas just stole home in game 2 against New York Duhhhh !!!! Also you may want check the season stats J-Hey also stole home this year, Hello !!!
ryan c
October 18th, 2010
2:45 pm
just heard saito and melky given their unconditional releases. can anyone confirm?
chris
October 18th, 2010
2:46 pm
kemp will be easier to trade for then rasmus. kemp is more expensive, his overall play has declined. (except for hitting two more homeruns than the previous year) and flat out did not listen to any dodgers officials. kind of like an andruw jones in 2007.
Shawn
October 18th, 2010
2:46 pm
We do need a slugger in the lineup. No question about it. Counting on Chipper is beyond stupid at this point and they won’t. The only sure things in our lineup are Prado, McCann and Chipper when he’s actually not hurt. Those three you know what you’ll get for the most part. Infante tailed off quite a bit towards the end and it makes me wonder if he’s not cut out for that everyday job. Heyward is 21 and showed how many holes he has at the plate. Hurt or not, the kid has a ways to go before he’s a sure thing to count on going into a season.
If Wren doesn’t get this team something for the middle of the lineup (not a God D*** platoon either) then it shows he’s not commited to winning big. With our pitching, we shouldn’t have to fight for a wild card berth. We should be giving Philly migrains for that division title. Simple as that.
chris
October 18th, 2010
2:47 pm
ryan c- i dont think they will recieve any releases until novemeber
RC
October 18th, 2010
2:47 pm
just heard saito and melky given their unconditional releases. can anyone confirm?
Considering that Saito is a free agent, and Melky doesn’t have to be released until well into the offseason, I’m going to say it’s very likely that nothing has happened regarding either of their relationships with the Braves.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
2:50 pm
Johnny Gomes who I was sure the Reds would exercise his option apparently haven’t decided on that yet. Might be another option
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
2:55 pm
Matt Young is like David Eckstein.
Oh, excellent. News from the farm just gets better and better.
By the way, if that dude is five-eight, I’m Kareem.
ReddJonn68
October 18th, 2010
2:56 pm
@ DAP also for those of you too young to remember the 84′ Tigers is the only team that actually won a ring & had power at almost every single position. I will not count those cheaters the Oakland A’s of the 90s, even though they still needed Rickey Henderson leading off & setting the table up. The reality of it is you need good leadoff guys & the ability to play small ball to complement that power, to advance thru the season & playoffs. The well rounded offensive teams will be there in the end. Let’s get back to basics, Braves.
NEW CARS
October 18th, 2010
2:56 pm
Matt Young is older than Bobby Cox. He may in fact be Glenn Hubbard’s older brother. He, like Timmons, Thurston and a couple of other guys on Gwinnett and Mississippi are just roster fillers. They may get a cup of coffee or a backup job like Brooks, but they are not what is referred to as prospects. Much like Redmond, Resop and others who are or were pitching at those levels.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
2:58 pm
Melky and Saito have been given their unconditional releases. Neither will be a Brave next season
Murph
October 18th, 2010
2:59 pm
Gomes strikes out something like 25-30% of his AB’s. Blech.
My biggest fear is that the Braves wills sign someone like Glaus or Andersen again to man LF. A guy that had a great couple of seasons but is a few years removed from success and is looking to hang on someplace. I understand the budget constraints, but another platoon of mediocrity is not the answer.
I do think that FW is going to make a big trade that is going to involve one of the big pitchers being talked about (JJ, Delgado, Teheran). If they don’t have the money in the bank then they have to use whatever assets they can to fix the horrible outfield.
raleighbravefan
October 18th, 2010
2:59 pm
Shawn – It doesn’t matter how committed to winning Wren is (AND HE IS) … He can only work within the budget. You people who critisize him for not making this trade or not going after that free agent are usually being – at the least- unrealistic about what can or cannot be done to help this line-up. Until you are personally prepared to ante up $20M of your own money, it is pointless to whine about us not getting a top teer guy. You can complain about how cheap ownership is, but those are the facts.
DO YOU REALLY THINK WREN WON’T DO EVERYTHING HE CAN TO BUILD A WINNER? DO YOU BELIEVE YOU WANT TO WIN MORE THAN HE DOES? YOUR JOB DOESN’T DEPEND ON IT!
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
2:59 pm
Crawford might be the pretty girl you dance with, but he ain’t the one you take home to mama. Braves need some mama-taking-home stuff out there
That may be scoots, but this waiting around for mama’s approval is resulting in a large sume of girls mama still doesn’t approve of. The team has been waiting for over a decade. Basically we’re told there isn’t anyone worth paying for in dollars or trade, so they aren’t going to get anyone… and that always, without fail, leads to, “we need another bat” all through the season, then through the off-season.
I remember not too long ago the Braves were starving for pitching. And, in your example, all the “girls mama approved of” were gone so they “over paid” for starting pitching to “hold them over” until the youth was developed. The same exact thing might very well need to occur in LF because I don’t see the youth in the system, so development is going to take considerably longer. That “over pay” for the out field hitter could also be justified in “veteran presence” for after Chipper is gone.
Perhaps Wren can trade for a player who can really lock down that position. If so, then I’m fine. If not, I’d rather see the “Lowe” of the out field signed as opposed to the perpetual “Redman” stop-gap revolving door. All this perpetual talk of “costs too much for his skill” will forever be the knock on a free agent player. Since when has a team signed a free agent star hitter in their prime for what was widely accepted as a bargain?
John in NY
October 18th, 2010
3:00 pm
If Kemp can be had, go get Kemp. I’d like it if they got Dexter Fowler as well. And besides, who is the batting coach going to be? The hitting coach is just as key the bat(s) the Braves attempt to acquire
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
3:01 pm
Murph, Gomes had a career year. 266AVG 18HR 86RBI’s
MikeInFl
October 18th, 2010
3:02 pm
team winning=”team looks loose, like it’s having fun.”
team losing=”team has no heart, no fire.“
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
3:03 pm
Cards get: Cory Rasmus
Braves get: Colby Rasmus
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
3:05 pm
Only reason Cards have of trading Rasmus is an issue with Larussa
Murph
October 18th, 2010
3:06 pm
Tomas, Gomes is a career .247 hitter who, again, strikes out 1 out of every 3-point-something plate appearances. He wouldn’t be that much of an upgrade over Matt Diaz or Melky.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
3:06 pm
By the way, if that dude is five-eight, I’m Kareem.
I saw Matt when I took my sons ball team to take the field with the Gwinnett Braves. If he is 5′8″ he’s 5′8″ with spikes on standing on a hard surface. There’s no way he’s 5′8″ barefoot. IMO he appers shorter than Marcus Giles who was 5′8″.
ryan c
October 18th, 2010
3:08 pm
saito isnt a free agent next year and the braves make it a habit to let their players know very early whether they plan on bringing them back,
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
3:08 pm
If not, I’d rather see the “Lowe” of the out field signed as opposed to the perpetual “Redman” stop-gap revolving door…Since when has a team signed a free agent star hitter in their prime for what was widely accepted as a bargain?
Preaching to the choir, my friend. At this point, even I have some “girls” I might take home to mama, if only out of pure frustration, LOL.
Still, you don’t take a girl who can’t cook, won’t clean, hates guns, and loves trees, home to MY mama, anyway. That’s Carl Crawford all over, when it comes to what the team actually needs out there.
RC
October 18th, 2010
3:09 pm
saito isnt a free agent next year and the braves make it a habit to let their players know very early whether they plan on bringing them back
Saito is a free agent. He signed a 1-year contract last offseason. I do not know why you think he’s still under team control.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
3:10 pm
ryan, they both are gone.
Tomas
October 18th, 2010
3:11 pm
Saito is an FA
Hillbilly
October 18th, 2010
3:14 pm
Just because all the Braves’ OF girls were too ugly, even at closing time, doesn’t mean posters should be blinded by the first pretty ankle they see. Crawford might be the pretty girl you dance with, but he ain’t the one you take home to mama. Braves need some mama-taking-home stuff out there, LOL. –scoots
You know a pretty girl she’ll leave you. Leave you to drown in your own tears. You know an ugly girl, she’ll leave you too, but then again, who really cares. And them eyes of blue, they cannot be true. They’ll have to stay here in my dreams. And I guess that’s why ol’ Hugh Hefner invented playboy magazines.
Skeezix
October 18th, 2010
3:16 pm
Already looking forward to Spring training-that is–assuming Wren has finally awoken and now will finally get us some outfielders that can actually hit. Still hate the way Wren’s dumb K.K. and McOut deals have handcuffed this team.
Hillbilly
October 18th, 2010
3:16 pm
So sit down here beside me girl and I will tell you what we will do. We’re gonna twist them lids and hope our kids look more like me than you. And when that bottle is finally empty, we’re gonna stumble across the floor. And I’m gonna pray my imagination is gonna pull me through once more.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
3:17 pm
Hugh Hefner, the original designated hitter.
Hillbilly
October 18th, 2010
3:18 pm
So darlin’ don’t you worry, ’cause they say that love is blind. But lust has eyes like an eagle. It’s gonna drive me outta my mind. Though my eyes sometimes wander, it doesn’t mean that I’m untrue. You’re not the best, but you’re the best that I can do.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
3:18 pm
Crazy Trades
Not like I’m trying to keep a secret or anything, just turning over a new lease on my blogging style. No name calling, etc.
Ease
Lotsa folk love burritos. But in the end, it turned out to be Chile Relleno’s instead. Still an excellent choice.
Frank Wren
October 18th, 2010
3:19 pm
DOB: How come J.S. is always on my case about how much I’m paying K.K.and McLouth?
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
3:20 pm
You’re not the best, but you’re the best that I can do.
So, what you’re saying is, Wren and the FO are all country fans?
bravesgrl4life
October 18th, 2010
3:20 pm
Haven’t seen this name banted about, but mlbtraderumors.com is saying Scott Hairston won’t be offered a contract by San Diego. Any thoughts on him?
Hillbilly
October 18th, 2010
3:21 pm
I’m thinking Charlie Robison is calling the shots and Frank Wren is just a puppet on a string.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
3:25 pm
Scott Hairston is NOT a very good ballplayer. He’s another low average, low OBP, no power OF’r
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
3:26 pm
Scott Hairston?
Um no…
That idea is about as good as Rajai Davis or second runs at Garret Anderson, Ryan Langerhans, and the head of Alredo Garcia
rdawg
October 18th, 2010
3:27 pm
DOB – This was the best season of Mad Men by far in my opinion. Total transformation of Don’s character. I like the shift and focus on Betty’s flaws that were somewhat kept at bay during the first 3 seasons. Rubicon was a show that really grew on me too. Wonderful writing and directing.
ryan c
October 18th, 2010
3:39 pm
RC, because he’s arbitration eligible for the 3rd time. just because he was a free agent before doesnt mean we dont have to release him.
Bobby's Cox
October 18th, 2010
3:40 pm
The Braves could sign a Werth or a Crawford. They’d just have to defer a bigger portion of the salary till 2012/2013 when Chipper, Lowe, Hudson, etc salaries come off the books and then you have Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheren, etc… in the pitching staff making minimums.
Right?
RC
October 18th, 2010
3:41 pm
ryan c,
You are right. I realized that and tried to post a correction to my previous post, but it must have been sent to blog purgatory.
Robert
October 18th, 2010
3:43 pm
” I’d still rather get to the WS and lose than not get there at all.”
I disagree. I’d rather watch a 50 win roster win 55 games than watch a World Series roster win a division title.
Turner Field WAS cursed, but he just retired
Man I tried to read that rambling nonsense from Cox that DOB quoted – I’ve heard more sense from Alzheimer’s patients
Bobby's Cox
October 18th, 2010
3:43 pm
DOB,
Last week you posted a stat from SI that said a MLB leading 14% of ballplayers picked Atl as their top team to play for.
How do you think that’s going to affect players’ willingness to play for the team now, and Wren at his attempts to bring players here, now that Bobby’s retired?
RC
October 18th, 2010
3:44 pm
The Braves could sign a Werth or a Crawford. They’d just have to defer a bigger portion of the salary till 2012/2013 when Chipper, Lowe, Hudson, etc salaries come off the books and then you have Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheren, etc… in the pitching staff making minimums.
Right?
But by then you’ll be having to pay higher arbitration salaries for Jurrjens, Hanson, Medlen, Prado, etc. Signing players to heavily backloaded deals is not something the Braves have traditionally done, because you end up paying players well beyond their usefulness to your team. That’s how a lot of teams end up long “rebuilding” periods.
MFin04
October 18th, 2010
3:44 pm
Would love to see Diaz come back next year, but not at something like 3 to 4 million a year. Maybe that for a 2 year deal.
Braves need some serious power in LF or CF. It’s actually pretty ironic that the two big name free agents (Werth and Crawford) are exactly what the Braves are looking for and need yet won’t even attempt to sign one of them.
And the Braves have the money to sign one of them if they want to. They could easily find the money in the budget, problem is that they don’t want to spend the money on either of those two guys, and love a weak platoon at two outfield positions.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
3:45 pm
Dude, Robert….
Are you STILL on Cox?
Let it go man, its over…
Robert
October 18th, 2010
3:46 pm
“You want the stud outfielder? Give up the stud pitcher”
Teams that trade stud pitching one for one for stud hitting are the teams that spend in the top tier but finish in the second division
The ONLY time you part with a stud pitcher who is under reasonable contract is when you get a better stud pitcher in the deal – i.e. – you let Cliff Lee go if doing so lets you get Roy Halladay
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
3:46 pm
Fin-
After what I’ve read and all the “creativity” that needs to happen, I’m not sure Frank has the cash to even restock the mini bar.
RC
October 18th, 2010
3:48 pm
Fin-
After what I’ve read and all the “creativity” that needs to happen, I’m not sure Frank has the cash to even restock the mini bar.
He should go buy from the guys outside the stadium. It’s like 1/4 of the price!
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
3:50 pm
I think the Braves will attempt to sign Saito if he is healthy. Look at his numbers in July, August and Sept minus his last appearance when he was injured.
26 AP / 25.2 IP / 20 H / 1 HR / 3 ER / 30 SO / 1,07 ERA / .211 BA / .235 SLG / 498 OPS
This guy is lights out and would be a valuable 6th and 7th inning shut down guy to get us to the setup man.
Robert
October 18th, 2010
3:50 pm
“DO YOU REALLY THINK WREN WON’T DO EVERYTHING HE CAN TO BUILD A WINNER?”
Wren’s job isnt to build a winner. Wren’s job is to use his allotted budget to put together a product that maximizes profit for the Braves organization
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
3:50 pm
You know scoots, there will always and forever be plenty of excuses not to do something. Plenty of them. Plenty of reasons not to dance… girl is “too pretty” she wants a limo and an expensive corsage… girl is too ugle and still wants the limo and expensive corsage… But at some point something has to be done which is contrary to the previous five years of excuses… otherwise you die a lonely old man with nothing to show for it.
These guys were/are “too expensive” for their skill set and not the “girls to take home.” Over the last five seasons…
Crawford has hit: .303/.350/.462/.812 14HR/year 115 OPS+
Holliday has hit: .323/.397/.557/.954 29HR/year 143 OPS+
Werth has hit: .282/.380/.506/.885 25HR/year 131 OPS+
The Braves over the last five season in Left field, averaging over 6 players per season at the position: .268/.331/.402/.733 14HR/Year 86 OPS+
Forgive me, but five more years of this crap or five years of “over paying” Jason Werth or, had we done it last year, Matt Holliday… I’m getting to the point where I’d rather “over pay”. At least there would be a consistent body in the outfield doing something. And frankly I wouldn’t pay attention to the lonely wall flowers to scared to dance.
People were laughing at the Phillies for the same reason. Laughing at them as they keep going to the world series. Winning the division. Winning Pennants…. winning… “fools, they over paid. Yeah, sure, my favorite team hasn’t won in a long time, but they’re great with accounting! Can make a budget decrease look like an increase! And Bud Selig praises their handling of the free agent market.”
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
3:53 pm
Robert-
IF I recall correctly, the Rangers traded Edinson Volquez to Cincinnati for Josh Hamilton…
Hmm, wonder how thats worked out for Texas
Try again there fella’
RC
October 18th, 2010
3:53 pm
Wren’s job isnt to build a winner. Wren’s job is to use his allotted budget to put together a product that maximizes profit for the Braves organization
Not true. Wren’s job is to build a winner. Terry McGuirk and John Scherholtz’s jobs are to put together a product that maximized profit for the Braves organization. Slight but important difference.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
3:55 pm
Awesome job there @ 3:50 TP…
Agreed that our team apparently is better at accounting than fielding a championship team…
We seem to be the “team of spin” as somehow we get a budget increase out of going from ~95M to ~83M…
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
3:55 pm
That’s how a lot of teams end up long “rebuilding” periods.
How long is too long? The Braves haven’t back loaded a contract and they were absent the post season for five years. The Pirates haven’t had a contract to speak of in nearly two decades and they haven’t had a winning season in that long. Long “rebuilding” periods result largely from a front office full of assclowns.
RC
October 18th, 2010
3:56 pm
Hey, Freeman just hit a triple in the AFL.
UnretireBobbyCox
October 18th, 2010
3:57 pm
ah… Robert.. still being the smartaxx… lol. Let’s see what is next for him now that Bobby C. retired!
MFin04
October 18th, 2010
3:58 pm
So realistically what kind of deal would it take to get Crawford or Werth?
The one thing that boggles my mind is that we knowingly overpaid for Chipper, Lowe, and KK but won’t overpay for an everyday outfielder that we desperately need.
And the Braves should have gotten rid KK and his contract a while ago. Problem was they didn’t want to eat half of his contract. Well sometimes you have to do that and look on the bright-side that you aren’t paying his full contract.
My point is this. The Braves need Werth/Crawford as desperately as they needed Derek Lowe. Yeh, they overpaid for Lowe, but they had to. Same situation. Braves really need a great outfielder…let’s see what they come up with.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
3:59 pm
I’ve heard more sense from Alzheimer’s patients
Funny thats what I say everytime I read a comment from you or your buddy .Dot.Don-Key.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
3:59 pm
Long “rebuilding” periods result largely from a front office full of assclowns.
TennPaul is lit UP today, by God, LOL. Give ‘em hell, big fella, I got your back.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
3:59 pm
10Paul
It’s real easy to spend somebody else’ money……..
TennesseePaul
October 18th, 2010
4:00 pm
It’s real easy to spend somebody else’ money……
hell ya it is. I just bought four new 50″ plasma screens on your tab.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
4:02 pm
Braves need 2 OF’rs not just one.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:03 pm
The Braves are not in a rebuilding mode. I’d say we are fairly set at 20 of our 25 roster spots. That’s not rebuilding.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:05 pm
unbelievable
Actually, we might need 3-4 outfielders…….
I suspect folks aren’t going to care for most of those choices though.
Crawford will probably end up with his buddy in Anaheim, and Werth is a Boras client, so he goes to the top dollar. Boston or Philadelphia?
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
4:06 pm
Fin-
Realistically?
Hmm…how about the CEO of Liberty taking a swan dive out his 52nd story window of his corporate office and then Liberty has to immediately sell the Braves…
That realistic enough?
Bobby's Cox
October 18th, 2010
4:10 pm
Bullpen is good, SP is good. The lineup needs a bit of a shakeup, but long as we can focus on 1 area, which we are, we’ll be fine.
In previous offseasons leading up to this one, we had to focus on pitching and hitting. Wren’s done well solidifying the pitching.
balla1881
October 18th, 2010
4:11 pm
What kind of deal would it take to get Arizona OF Chris Young? Arizona seemed to be selling off their pieces at the trade dead line. Young’s line this year 27 HR, 91 RBI, 28 steals. .257/.341/.452 thats really really good and he’s not reguarded around baseball as a superstar yet so his price will be a little lower, I know he’s not a Beltran or Werth but uh, pretty damn close. My guess – The deal could be based on Teheran with some other low level, high ceiling type of guys. Hey, maybe we could throw in KK
MFin04
October 18th, 2010
4:11 pm
We need to make a list of players of who we would be satisfied with if the Braves acquired them to play LF or CF.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
4:14 pm
you’re absolutely right If there is a taker for Derek Lowe then you have to move him unbelievable
with JJ questionable and Medlen out, I seriously doubt they will make any attempt to trade starting pitching unless they also get a decent one back. pretty unlikely IMO
CB
October 18th, 2010
4:16 pm
Blog love for Rasmus just went up – Larussa coming back to St.Louis.
Shaun
October 18th, 2010
4:16 pm
I don’t get the fascination with Carl Crawford. Sure he’s a solid player and I’d love to see him playing leftfield for the Braves. But he’s nothing more than solid and he’s going to get paid like he’s one of the best players in the game. Maybe he fools everyone and repeats his 2010 season as he approaches 30 and beyond but I think it’s more likely that 2010 is the best we’ll see of Crawford. I think it’s risky and dangerous for a team like the Braves, with their budget, to pay him what he’ll command.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
4:16 pm
raleighbravefan (re: your Emliy Proctor post)
Wow, didn’t know she was from where your at and that you know her parents still live there.
All I know is…she could arrest me ANYTIME…and at ANYPLACE..(LOL)..
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
4:17 pm
opps….Emily*
MiaBchBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
4:17 pm
(I am sure it has been commented already, but I thought I would drop my two cents in on this…)
I don’t know what the Marlins were asking for with Cody Ross, but if the Braves – or for that matter any of the other playoff teams – could’ve predicted that Ross would be ready for playoff prime time, I would’ve made that trade in a heartbeat.
I think that it is very safe to say that if the Braves would’ve traded for Ross – knowing what we know now, the Bravos beat the Giants and take the phils to seven games in this series.
Folks, you have not heard the last of Cody Ross in this series! He is an uber-Lemke!
Bobby's Cox
October 18th, 2010
4:18 pm
Robert,
Wren’s job IS to put together a winning team. Don’t know how you don’t understand that.
The number one way to boost revenues in sports, if you know anything about sports marketing, is to WIN. Being it Wren’s job to put together the team the Braves field, and your beliefs that it’s his job to make the team profitable, only way it could happen, by even your own logic even, is to put together a winning team.
I don’t understand your hatred for this team, whether it’s the former manager, the new general manager, the old general manager, the owner, the fans and their lack of attendance, their game play, etc… Really, what do you like about this organization enough to call yourself a fan?
MiaBchBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
4:19 pm
AND I don’t know what his arbitration price is going to be, but I would re-sign Scott Proctor for 2011.
I really think he will contribute – and won’t be expensive.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:19 pm
Teheran for Chris Young? Nah. Young has a pretty hefty contract, and his splits aren’t that great away from AZ.
But to be honest, we could do worse. Just not Teheran. Maybe Hoover would get it done? We could throw in McLouth???
RC
October 18th, 2010
4:21 pm
Teheran for Chris Young? Nah. Young has a pretty hefty contract, and his splits aren’t that great away from AZ.
But to be honest, we could do worse. Just not Teheran. Maybe Hoover would get it done? We could throw in McLouth???
I would not trade Teheran for 2 Chris Youngs.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
4:23 pm
nolie, how are ya? Anymore, I never seem to be around here when you are. Good to see you.
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
4:25 pm
Why would Wren trade Lowe when he is doing exactly what he signed him to do? Win games, eat innings and anchor the staff? Last year I could understand if Lowe was shopped but not now.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:25 pm
Miami Beach
Proctor will probably get an offer. He’ll be back, unless he gets a better offer elsewhere. Might be a good hedge for the pen next year.
I’d love to see the Braves give Saito an invite to ST, maybe on a minor league contact with major league money if he gets healthy.
Let’s hope we don’t have to deal any of our top young bullpen arms this winter for an outfielder. I’d let Dunn go, but hopefully not any of the others.
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
4:25 pm
I know we have talked about the Braves $84 – $90 mil payroll before.
But keep in mind that the Rangers payroll is $55 mil (having Feliz and Andrus helps), and the Rays payroll is $72 mil. So it can be done.
What’s holding us back? Chipper, Nate, Lowe and KK ($41 mil combined). And of that list, Lowe is the only one I would say is coming close to earning his salary.
Hillbilly
October 18th, 2010
4:26 pm
Frank from KS, Emily Procter is a good-looking gal and has a sexy voice no doubt, but I’d rather be arrested by Agents Jennifer Jareau and Elle Greenaway any day of the week. “Put your hands where I can see ‘em.”
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:26 pm
keylargo
Amen on Lowe! A deal for Jurrjens wouldn’t be overly surprising, but my guess is that doesn’t happen either.
rainman34
October 18th, 2010
4:27 pm
how bout kk and nate for figgins plus braves even out contracts and a low level minor leaguer. Figgins plays left and leads off. Returns to the guy he was before.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 18th, 2010
4:28 pm
Larussa coming back to St.Louis
Oh well……. Sorry .dot.Don-key
MFin04
October 18th, 2010
4:30 pm
Shaun – It is always bad to overpay for someone, but the Crawford does a lot of things well. Great range in the outfield. Has to have a better arm than McLouth. Great speed. Great average. Hits for some power. Very intelligent base runner. Hard worker. If you are going to overpay for someone, it seems like a guy that does A LOT of things well would be a good guy to overpay for. Not to mention he could play CF and move McLouth to LF if that’s the best we can do in LF.
ijudgenot
October 18th, 2010
4:30 pm
Here is a quick remedy to KK,McClouth and Lowe guaranteed contract problem.
KK owed $7Mill next year
Mclouth owed $6Mill next year
Lowe owed 30Mill next 2 years
Renegotiate Lowe’s contract to be spread out over 3 years instead of two. That pays him $10Mill a year for 3 years. Take out Hampton insurance policy in case his arm blows out. The guy has a rubber arm that allows him to throw 85-89mph sinker and get major league hitters out. Will be able to throw that until he is 39 which is 3 years from now. Take the $10Mill saved over next 2 years and pay half of KK and Mclouth saleries for team that takes them and gives back a prospect or two.
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
4:31 pm
keylargo,
The reason for exploring trade options for Lowe this offseason is to sell high. What if next year, he goes back to being the Lowe of last year, who many of us (including Wren) wanted to trade?
There would not be a market for him, and we would be stuck paying his $15 mil salary one more year.
But I can understand keeping him too. 200 innings, 16 wins, good postseason performer.
It will be interesting to see what Wren does
Shaun
October 18th, 2010
4:31 pm
MiaBchBravesFan, it seems like the Marlins were asking a lot and may have been asking more from the Braves, a team within their division. Also, I’m sure the Braves were reluctant to give up talented young players for a guy who has been solid but not overly spectacular.
I think what we are seeing with Ross is a pretty good player having an outstanding few games. I don’t think we can read much into it beyond that.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
4:34 pm
Renegotiate Lowe’s contract to be spread out over 3 years instead of two. That pays him $10Mill a year for 3 years.
And that would be attractive to Lowe why, exactly, LOL?
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
October 18th, 2010
4:35 pm
Bobby’s Cox
“Bullpen is good, SP is good. The lineup needs a bit of a shakeup, but long as we can focus on 1 area, which we are, we’ll be fine.
In previous offseasons leading up to this one, we had to focus on pitching and hitting. Wren’s done well solidifying the pitching.”
This is the most sensible thing I’ve read here today.
Summa y’all need to lay off the crack pipe a couple days and regroup..
nolie
October 18th, 2010
4:37 pm
Braves get: Braun from Brewers
Brewers get: Infante and JJ
sigh. no GM in his right mind is gonna trade an impact player like Braun for an injured pitcher. it ain’t happening in real life. what if JJ doesn’t come back healthy, or is healthy but doesn’t have more success than his peripherals say he should, like he did for two years? The GM would be run out of town on a rail.
I Miss Ted Turner
October 18th, 2010
4:39 pm
“Braves tired of planning while others play for pennant”
Nothing will change if they continue to pick up broken down players from other teams’ scrap heaps.
Shaun
October 18th, 2010
4:41 pm
MFin04, Crawford is a very good player, obviously, but I don’t think he does as many important things well as a lot of people give him credit for, at least relative to the very best players in the game. But he’s likely going to get paid like one of the very best players in the game. Again, I have no problem with a team with the budget of the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, etc. paying Crawford like one of the very best players in the game. They probably should. But I think it would be very risky and a mistake for most teams to pay him like that.
What’s wrong with Crawford? Well, “wrong” is a relative term. In a vacuum there is nothing wrong with Crawford and I’d love to see him in a Braves uniform. But when you take into account his likely contract and his age and his skill set, there are some risks. It may seem like nit-picking, and it will be if it turns out Crawford is paid like merely an above-average leftfielder and not one of the best players in the game.
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
4:42 pm
Gary O
I understand your worries about Lowe in 2012, but that is why he is a Brave. The Mets offered Lowe 3 years @ $15M but Wren upped the offer to 4 years. I would think that Wren did his homework and thought Lowe was going to be able to pitch for 4 years or else he would have made an offer like 3 years @ $16M. Just IMO though, but FW knows a lot better than me.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
4:43 pm
would the Cards possibly consider trading McLouth for Rasmus straight up, with the Braves paying for most or all of McLouth’s salaray?
you have GOT to be kidding, right????
Lew
October 18th, 2010
4:46 pm
Tomas – Wren has already indicated that Teheran and Delgado will be invited to Braves’ Spring Training in February. That pretty much tells me neither are on the trading block.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
4:47 pm
nolie-Anything goes – we’ve already had the obligatory “Get Coco Crisp” post, so ’tis the season for insane trades – yet again.
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
4:48 pm
The GM would be run out of town on a rail.
Just ask Bill DeWitt.
unbelievable
October 18th, 2010
4:48 pm
“the Cards possibly consider trading McLouth for Rasmus straight up, with the Braves paying for most or all of McLouth’s salaray?”
HA HA HA…you do understand that he’s the best young CF’r in baseball and Nate is, what, the worst?
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:49 pm
nolie
What’s wrong w/ McLouth for Rasmus? We’d eat all McLouths’ salary. Like us getting Rasmus for the price of McLouth, and the Cards getting McLouth for the price of Rasmus.
Now why wouldn’t they be happy with that deal?
and the lunacy has been going on and on and on all day………
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
October 18th, 2010
4:50 pm
That crack pipe is evidently glowing today..
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
4:50 pm
you have GOT to be kidding, right????
Yeah, that’s where I kinda went off on a rant and questioned why people hate on Rasmus. I’ve seen more than just this, though. I think the La Russa thing makes people think we can get him for nothing.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:51 pm
Lew
And don’t forget the overtures towards Ryan Freel coming out of retirement!!!
the Owl of Prophecy
October 18th, 2010
4:51 pm
Bobby Cox was a better than average manager who was blessed with great talent and Ted’s checkbook. I hope Freddie will get us back on track.
Lew
October 18th, 2010
4:52 pm
DS1-But nary a Ryan reel suggestion sighting yet. I guess he was serious when he said he was retiring. Until a week ago, he might have considered doing a Brett Farve and returning. Now it’s unclear what “Doing a Brett Farve” might be.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
4:52 pm
The Braves could sign a Werth or a Crawford. They’d just have to defer a bigger portion of the salary till 2012/2013 when Chipper, Lowe, Hudson, etc salaries come off the books and then you have Medlen, Minor, Beachy, Teheren, etc… in the pitching staff making minimums.
and why in the world would either of those players do that when there are 100million dollar contracts available with paychecks arriving on time?
MFin04
October 18th, 2010
4:54 pm
I get not overpaying for Crawford, but if you don’t overpay for a guy like Crawford or Werth…what are the other alternatives?
Better to overpay for Crawford or Werth than to be stuck with a outfield comprised of guys like Melky Cabrera, Nate Mclouth, and Rick Ankiel.
If there are cheaper more suitable options, than by all means go out and get those guys. But if its gonna take trading Lowe, Hanson, or Jurrjens to get someone worse than Crawford or Werth you are better off overpaying than trading proven starting pitching to get less in return.
MikeInFl
October 18th, 2010
4:55 pm
When the Marlins cut Ross loose, he was hitting .265/.316/.405, with 30 BB and 100 K’s in 452 ab’s. And the Braves had just won 9 of 12, a period during which they were scoring a very adequate 5 runs per game. And we were a season-best (I think) 22 games over .500.
Of course you can apply the description “better than any of our outfielders not named Heyward” to him and just about anyone else, but I don’t think it’s fair to criticize Wren for not going guns-a-blazing after Cody Ross in August.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
4:57 pm
I just did a simple spreadsheet of our 2010 and projected 2011 salaries. Not including Ankiel and Farnsworth’s contracts, we paid out roughly 85 million last year.
If we do not resign Melky and Diaz and lose the salaries of Hinske, Wagner, Saito; then add in arbitration raises to Jurrjens, OF, Moylan and Prado, I project our salary would be in the 79 million range. Taking into accounts modest raises for the youngsters. Very modest.
So that gives us 6 million to spend to get to where we were before???
We might could get some salary relief from McLouth and KK, but it will not be too large, as they aren’t worth much more than 2-4 million total.
Not too much there for Werth or Crawford fellas. Can we quit kicking that dead horse, as it is now just a bloody spot on the road?
So, we are still in the Rasmus sweepstakes. Not sure if Young is still in play though.
Not much to play with there folks………….
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
4:57 pm
Fin-
I still go back and say that going after Holliday would have been the best bet…
Question is, if we don’t pay “bad” money for a good FA, and instead pay “good” money for a BAD FA, then what is left out there next season for us to b*tch and moan about again after Frank signs some has been or someone they try to assume will rise to stardom…
Yes, we all agree that it is what it is, but when is enough enough? When will they realize that rather than throw away 2 and 3M dollars at a time, they can just pay up front and actually receive talent!
ncscoots
October 18th, 2010
4:58 pm
Deferred-money contracts almost by definition have to have significantly higher total dollars than one without deferment. Time has a value for large sums, and a deferred value must more than make up for the loss of that value. Otherwise, what’s the upside for the player? Can’t expect a guy to take the same money, except get it later.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
5:01 pm
^^ Isn’t this what Chipper pretty much does every year?
I mean he certainly isn’t doing what he’s getting paid to do most of the season…
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
5:04 pm
Oh, and the upside…
Well, for Chipper its only playing 100 games in a season and still receiving your entire paycheck
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:06 pm
Young’s line this year 27 HR, 91 RBI, 28 steals. .257/.341/.452 thats really really good and he’s not reguarded around baseball as a superstar yet so his price will be a little lower, balla
almost all of which was produced in ‘zona the best hitters park in the NL. he pretty much stunk away from home and that is why nobody with any sense yet considers him a budding superstar.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
5:06 pm
Sorry guys…
For some reason when it comes to our budget issues I immediately think Chipper.
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
5:06 pm
Nolie-
Sounds like that “other” guy in Arizona that everyone started talking about again
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:10 pm
How about a minor league contract offer and ST invite to Micah Owings, ex Red and D’back hurler/hitter.
He’s a Georgia boy, and was released by the Reds. I wonder if he could play any LF?
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
5:13 pm
^^ Yeah, because we need another Rick Ankiel out there…
Paul
October 18th, 2010
5:14 pm
Would ya’ll use your heads, we are not gonna get colby, and we are not gonna sign crawford or werth with our payroll! jesus think people idiots!!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:14 pm
so many folks not only overvalue our mediocre players but they act like a deal takes place in a vacuum. anybody worth having is gonna have multiple suitors. the other GM doesn’t have to accept our injured or our pariahs
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:17 pm
I hope Freddie will get us back on track.
there is next to nobody in baseball who thinks that Fredi is a better manager now than Bobby has been for ages. That is strictly a concept enbraced by perhaps 20% of Braves fans, just like the 20-25% of fans of other teams who hate on their managers. It’s a coping mechanism not a fact
P-Town Brave ©
October 18th, 2010
5:18 pm
I agree w/ that Nolie, and to get rid of a soured piece, you either have to trade for a soured piece or sweeten the pot so to speak…
Given what Frank said and the history of our OF, I am almost resigned to the fact that we’ll more than likely end up with a non matching hubcap and a torn car cover to go with our Benz in RF.
TnBrian
October 18th, 2010
5:23 pm
Face it– the Braves are stuck with McLouth. Nobody will want him and that money hanging over him unless Atlanta were to pay half or more of his contract while throwing in a decent or very good prospect in the deal. That ain’t happening.
HuffBraves
October 18th, 2010
5:26 pm
Ha!
Just read an interesting article about identifying who the next Carlos Gonzalez will be, in terms of a breakout power/speed threat. Most of the names on the list are pretty reasonable, but my favorite is the first name in the “honorable mentions” category. About spit my coffee out when I read that…
http://www.rotoauthority.com/2010/10/the-next-carlos-gonzalez.html
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:26 pm
TnBrian
I am resigned to the fact that Nate will be roaming the outfield for us next year. Let’s just hope he has a comeback in him.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:27 pm
likely end up with a non matching hubcap and a torn car cover to go with our Benz in RF
very descriptive P-Town I enjoyed the imagery. I think we get one decent OFer, and I’m afraid he will actually be more second tier than first. and then maybe a 4th OFer non-tendered guy at most. As I said yesterday, they seem to be perfectly OK with just being in contention and unwilling to add thae first tier player that would make an impact. I understand that approach, but like many fans I get a bit disappointed this time of year anymore knowing with 90% certainty that the stars are not within out reach at all. It was more fun when you felt they at least had a chance at one even if it didn’t materialize…eg the Arod days
TnBrian
October 18th, 2010
5:31 pm
Enter your comments here
Tomahawk
October 18th, 2010
5:33 pm
“The Braves aren’t included to overpay for any free agents, with the recent exception of Lowe, who signed in unusual circumstances when the Braves were rather desperate to land a front-line pitcher after losing out on others.”
I realize pitching is one of the single most important parts of a team, but how in the world is our outfield any less of an “unusual situation”? we’ve had GREAT pitching the last two years and very little to show for it. why? because we’ve easily had one of the absolute worst offensive outfields over the last few years. the outfield is absolutely crippling what would otherwise be a very good team. how is there any less desperation? there shouldn’t be. the organization has invested a lot of resources into building a very good product, yet have one glaring need that should put them over the top and give them a winner ( or: access to postseason revenue, if you front office folks are listening). it’s like shelling out the dough for a ‘vette and settling on three tires. unbelievable.
TnBrian
October 18th, 2010
5:33 pm
I hate when I type something up that I think is worth reading on the blog spits it out. I’m not typing it again. F*** it. It was about how I think the OF we get will come through a trade and why I’m not surprised some on here keep mentioning the big FA this winter as targets. We get that every year around here. The excpetion was Lowe because we were hammered with injuries to our starters and he is/was reliable. KK was a huge mistake that will never happen again.
TnBrian
October 18th, 2010
5:39 pm
DS1, you can’t depend on Nate. They have to look at him as nothing more than a backup bench option when evaluating the team this winter. Lord knows that kid is about as dependable as Chipper’s groin, or his feet, or his many other body parts that fail him these days.
It’s funny that so far the two guys mentioned here and other Braves sites are guys that have bad attitudes, or seem to anyways. Rasmus and Kemp. If so, do we want their filth here? We’re already stuck with Gonzalez’ pouty BS after every one of his little league type at bats.
JeanE
October 18th, 2010
5:48 pm
Why does everyone think MattE Diaz is 35?? He was born in 1978, people. That makes him 32, turning 33 in January, I believe. They said it wrong on one of the playoff telecasts, dumbies. I know he will not be offered arbitration but I still have hope they will negotiate something with him & bring him back as the 4th outfielder. Please bring MattE D back!!!!!
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:48 pm
I can put up with Gonzalez “pouty BS” after every one of his AB’s. Since he is only costing us 2.5 million next year, fields pretty good and has more power than most of our hitters in the lineup, bad OBP and all.
As for Rasmus and Kemp, yes they have had some issues this year. But who else are you going to get that can hit as good as those two can.
I think McLouth will have a comeback year.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:49 pm
Filth? that’s kina self-righteous and judgmental ain’t it?
and just copy your post b4 sending it. it will be right there to paste back into the blog if it spits it out
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:50 pm
Jean
I fully expect Matt back next year. He wants to come back, and that’s half the battle. Hopefully he will be reasonable on his salary requirements.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:51 pm
more power than most of our hitters in the lineup DS1
I wouldn’t go that far, he has more single digit homer totals than double digit ones.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
5:53 pm
only trouble with Mattie is that he really ain’t a 4th OFer defense wise. he cain’t play CF at all. I like him and hope he comes back too, but depending on who else they decide on his lack of versatility might hurt his chances
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:55 pm
nolie
McCann and Heyward are better.
Prado, Chipper are about equal.
I dunno, I might be right on this one.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:58 pm
nolie
Definitely agreed on Matty. And a lot of Gonzo’s seasons were cut short by some injuries, I think.
I see Gonzo as a 15-18 HR guy over a full season. Nate is better if he is playing too. And that Kemmus or Rasp guy would be better. Maybe I am wrong after all………..
DS1
October 18th, 2010
5:59 pm
Dang it Frank, what’s the hold up?
When do the org meetings start?
Rob from SC
October 18th, 2010
6:01 pm
DOB
What role do the Braves view Medlen long term
nolie
October 18th, 2010
6:04 pm
I don’t think its a matter of being wrong, just a bit of hyperbole perhaps. every so often he does hit a few taters. if he plays all year which,unfortunately is not his usual MO, he should get about 15 + or -
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
October 18th, 2010
6:06 pm
Carl Crawford will be in Yankee pin stripes or end up with the Red Sox.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:06 pm
Tomahawk
I think it is a lot different. If you don’t have enough pitching to keep you in a game, a good offense doesn’t matter much. And you state we have nothing to show for the past two years. Well, we have improved considerably over the past two years, and as I remember correctly, we actually made the playoffs inspite of our outfield.
We didn’t advance primarily due to injuries and an anemic offense.
BUT, the main reason you don’t see the Braves going out and overspending this winter is due to one thing: Budget restraints, pure and simple.
A team will be much more competitive with good pitching and mediocre hitting than the opposite.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
6:06 pm
good question Rob, it could depend on the make up of the remaining staff. he can do well either way which gives them some flexibility depending on who we keep as starters and how the younguns like Teheran and Delgado do in a few years.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:08 pm
Coach
Supposedly, the Angels are going to make a play for him also.
nolie
Yes, true. And I am most often full of it too!
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:10 pm
Personally, I think Rain-man Spandex Funkyburger will be our knight in shining armour in a year or so.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:12 pm
899
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:13 pm
900
Now we are on a new page………
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
6:17 pm
Everything you need to know about Yunnel Escobar and Alex Gonzalez was said by the Braves players when AG was given a standing ovation by the players the first day he walked into clubhouse after the trade.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
6:18 pm
I think Rain-man Spandex Funkyburger will be our knight in shining armour in a year or so.
that would likely make RG happy, but I don’t think it’s gonna happen
VaBravesFan
October 18th, 2010
6:18 pm
Forget about Crawford and Werth its not happening.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:20 pm
How’d FF do today down in the desert?
DOB
Will there be any sort of news/insight to come out of the org meetings this week? I am assuming the answer is no, that they are all getting on the same page with what we have and what we do not have.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
6:22 pm
Don’t tell RG, but I’d have to agree. Heck, I’d be happy if Elephant Ears Schafer has a decent return to form. Not going to go to Vegas on that one either……..
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
6:24 pm
Heck, I’d be happy if Elephant Ears Schafer has a decent return to form.
Again, it’s not that his ears are big, HIS HEAD IS SMALL!!!!!
Ray Parker Jr.
October 18th, 2010
6:26 pm
Rob from SC – Bring back Fulton County Stadium
Agreed. Miss those tacky upper level seats. Fills strange each time I park in the Turner green lot knowing I watched games there as a kid.
Rob from SC
October 18th, 2010
6:28 pm
Did Freeman get hurt. He was pulled after he hit the triple. DOB I need answers
Danga
October 18th, 2010
6:32 pm
Better to overpay for Crawford or Werth than to be stuck with a outfield comprised of guys like Melky Cabrera, Nate Mclouth, and Rick Ankiel.
That is a false choice. There are plenty of guys in between those two groups of players. Free agents like those guys are a big risk. The money doesn’t make me nearly as nervous as the length on those kinds of contracts. Werth is already 31. Crawford’s game is built mostly on his speed. He may age gracefully, he may not. High reward, high risk. Hard to stomach for a franchise that has seen most of these types of investments blow up in its face here recently.
DawgDad
October 18th, 2010
6:38 pm
Sure the Braves played exciting games this year, but they played an awful lot of dud games, too. Aside from all the tight low-score games in the late innings their brand of baseball is by-and-large BORING. Take a look at September, or game 3 against the Giants. The team did nothing (nothing!) for five innings, and all the offensive excitement was in the eighth and ninth. This is plodding, offensively challenged, fundamentally unsound, sloppy, achy team, and if they doesn’t compete for a playoff spot the fans will exit in droves. Braves need an infusion of youth, speed, defense, and aggressive attitude.
I’ll give Heyward his due. He runs the bases aggressively and crashes into walls, and if unchained I suspect he’d steal a few bases, too. He was the single biggest fan attraction on the team, by far and away head and shoulders above any of the plodding veterans. In short, he generates excitement and enthusiasm.
I think the Braves CAN win with Infante, Gonzalez, and Prado on the infield, if they fix the outfield. They’d be a lot better with a young defensive middle infielder thrown into the mix.
DAP
October 18th, 2010
6:49 pm
reddjonn68 do you watch baseball other than the Braves, Texas just stole home in game 2 against New York Duhhhh !!!! Also you may want check the season stats J-Hey also stole home this year,
yeah, i watch alot of baseball and know that “the basics” include getting on base and hitting for power, which will score you more runs than stealing bases, which dont score any runs by themselves, about 99% of the time.
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
6:53 pm
RIP June Cleaver. 94 years old…
balla1881
October 18th, 2010
6:57 pm
I’m still stuck on Chris Young, AZ outfielder. He hit .283 with 20 of his 27 bombs at home. Ok. His home/road splits don’t bode well for getting out of the bandbox that is the Arizona bandbox but, the kid had over 25 at bats in each position in the batting order 1-7. He’s a versatile center fielder with power and speed. Makes more sense then the people on here talking about Crawford or Werth. Also his contract is not outrageous 2011: 5 million, 2012: $7 million, 2013: $8.5 million, 2014: $11 million club option ($1.5 million buyout) but considering this type of money guaranteed to Mclouth that now seems high what do we really know about long term contracts? I like the idea of him coming in from Arizona and untapping some of that talent
Chipper's ACL
October 18th, 2010
6:58 pm
Saito would be a nice re-sign but he’s rated as an A free agent. Gonzalez and Lee are both B’s. We need some top draft picks. Too many holes with position players. The Braves have pieces to trade, if they’re willing to deal. Infante’s value has never been higher. A player without a position. Diaz is great to have around but due a raise after making 2.5mil this season? Sorry. As I’ve stated on most posts let Gonzo walk, take the draft pick, and offer Diaz to TB for Bartlett. The deal would be accepted. Sure he makes a little more but he’s a contact hitter and has some speed. Gonzo had a good year but don’t expect him to play 120 games in ‘11. Infante could be packaged to land one OF. Being realistic next season isn’t the one the Braves will win. With KK and McLouth coming off the books at the end of ‘11, Huddy and Lowe down to one season, next winter could be the year to make large strides. Teheran and Delgado should be ready and an outside shot on Vizcaino. The only position that would need to be filled is Chipper’s replacement at third. ‘12 could be the year.
Rob from SC
October 18th, 2010
6:59 pm
Any Freeman updates?
balla1881
October 18th, 2010
6:59 pm
DawgDad
I think your young defensive stud up the middle is busy playing for SS for the Rangers in the NLCS. As time goes on the Tex trade continues to look worse…
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
7:00 pm
McFann
Did you ever see June C. in Airplane?
http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=1392
By the way, I’m pretty sure Tomahawkin is the passenger on the right.
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
7:06 pm
I’m pretty sure Tomahawkin is the passenger on the right
BravesFanChris26
October 18th, 2010
7:09 pm
Welp, I’m rooting for a Giants/Rangers WS just because >_>
I can’t wait till the WS is over so the wheeling and dealing can begin.
ChipperSu__cKs.com
October 18th, 2010
7:10 pm
When we review our options for next year we see Chipper as a roadblock….. If Chipper is the great person people claim why does he not get out of the way….. He appears to be a blowhard that thinks his skills are not diminished……….. Why don’t we have more fans of Braves baseball asking Chipper to move on……… Retire and come back later in the year with a restructured deal if needed…….. I would love for Chipper to sit out work hard and come back after the AllStar Break…….. He can do this if he his not greedy…… Money paid over an extended time (I hope he does not need it) and a position with the Braves……… Chipper man up!
Braves Fan Since "80
October 18th, 2010
7:13 pm
ChipperSu__cKs.com
I agree but show the man respect for all that he has done…… He needs to take less of a role and be removed as a defensive liability from time to time…….
BINGO!
October 18th, 2010
7:16 pm
Naive, naive, naive. It’s sad to know so little about how things work.
Crime Dog
October 18th, 2010
7:16 pm
ChipperSu_cks.com-
Yeah, exactly. Just the other day at work, I was telling my boss how much I wanted him to cut my salary so we could hire more workers and put out a better product. Oh wait, no I didn’t.
Rob from SC
October 18th, 2010
7:18 pm
No Freeman news
Braves Fan Since "80
October 18th, 2010
7:19 pm
DawgDad
I think your young defensive stud up the middle is busy playing for SS for the Rangers in the NLCS. As time goes on the Tex trade continues to look worse…
===========
Blame Kelly Johnson, Escobar and Chipper……. If they had played as advertised we would not know his name!
ccrider
October 18th, 2010
7:19 pm
I can see one reasonable answer to the outfield next year. Chipper comes back healthy, Infante takes over at 2nd, Prado moves to LF (he has played the outfield for years in the winter leagues), the Braves trade, Beachy, Bethancourt ( they are looking for a future replacement for Russell Martin), JJ Hoover, Cory Gearrin. The parts may need changing, but the Dodgers get a top young starting pitcher(that i would hate to give up,but), a VERY promising young catcher with gold glove skills, a pitcher in Hoover with very good upside and a very good reliever.
2b Infante
Rf Heyward
3B Chipper
C McCann
Cf Kemp
1B Freeman
2B Prado
22 Gonzalez
Its a situation where the Dodgers acquired 2 players that can help right away, and 2 with excellant upside
The Braves get a righthanded power bat with some baggage and Prado is a big upgrade over McLouth
The Lineup is solid 1-9, the rotation is Hudson, Lowe,, Hanson, Jurjjens and Minor( or maybe a bargin Vazquez signing)
The money works: Kemp $6.95 Million and enough for Vazquez at a discounted price, plus a vet reliever or bench upgrade
Braves Fan Since "80
October 18th, 2010
7:21 pm
October 18th, 2010
7:16 pm
ChipperSu_cks.com-
Yeah, exactly. Just the other day at work, I was telling my boss how much I wanted him to cut my salary so we could hire more workers and put out a better product. Oh wait, no I didn’t.
======
Crime dog….. your boss could just fire you at will!
Stanley Crowe
October 18th, 2010
7:23 pm
I think that a healthy Chipper Jones would be an asset next year. In fact, I worry more about his staying healthy than I worry about his not producing if he IS healthy. And the unmoveable Nate McLouth? I say we keep him, and I think he hits better next year. How much better is hard to say, but if we could get just ONE productive outfielder, we could be fine. Actually, I wouldn’t be averse to playing Infante as the regular LF — then we could get a more powerful hitter for center and use Nate to spell the new guy and Infante. An infield of Freeman, Prado, A. Gonzalez, and Chipper looks good to me. McCann and Ross are a nice combo at catcher, with David PH-ing on occasion. Bottom line: we’re one good center fielder away. I hate it that it seems that Werth and Crawford are out of reach.
Crime Dog
October 18th, 2010
7:28 pm
Crime dog….. your boss could just fire you at will!
Of course he could. But it’s not Chipper’s fault the Braves offered him that much money for that amount of time. I don’t know why anyone would just expect him to turn that down, especially considering how most of the contracts he signed during his career were for less than what he could have made elsewhere. He’s earned every cent and I hope he plays until the contract is done.
Efrim
October 18th, 2010
7:29 pm
Rob, if Freeman is hurt, my guess is he’ll be ready for Spring Training. It’s a long time till Feb.
gcs
October 18th, 2010
7:33 pm
Wren, DON’T BE AN IMBECILE! Resign Hinske!
He made $1 million in 2010. A new contract will not be that much more and I can’t imagine you getting anyone else cheaper/better to back up Freddie Freeman at first.
Furthermore, Freeman is a great prospect but he has yet to prove he can hit Major League hitting.
“It’s way too early to even contemplate what we might do, because you just don’t know,” Wren said. Does he think he gets the winter off?? The time is now. You get a head start on the Phillies. Get to work.
.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:34 pm
Infante at second base weakens the position defensively, and also weakens the bench (no Infante). I’d be OK with Kemp, but give me a normal hitting McLouth in CF, Kemp in LF and Infante on the bench. That would be a big improvement.
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
Heyward
Kemp
McCann
Gonzalez
Freeman
That lineup has the potential to either A)Blow up in our faces or B)Do OK!
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:36 pm
Hinske would be a good resign, though he bats left. I like what he brings to the club off the field.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:37 pm
In my scenario, the bench would be Ross, Infante, Conrad, Hinske and Young (insert Diaz for Hinske??)
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
7:39 pm
Keylargo—
Hahahaha…that’s funny!
I’m pretty sure Tomahawkin is the passenger on the right.
CB
October 18th, 2010
7:40 pm
DS1,Hinske in charge of the buffet?
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
7:42 pm
Gcs,
They want Freddie’s backup to be right handed, and preferably hit lefties well (even if they haven’t said so). Hinske is left handed.
I don’t want the Guy from Arizona. Look at what KJ’s stats in Arizona were. Its too hard to tell if they can hit outside of Arizona.
And that’s one reason why Werth’s contract will be too high. Look at his average outside of Philly. And how will he hit when he doesn’t have that lineup around him.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:42 pm
CB
Darn straight! Can’t you tell he’s a burrito man too!
Danga
October 18th, 2010
7:45 pm
Hinske looks like Kevin James, but he was definitely one of my favorites by the end of the season.
Atlanta braves fan of south
October 18th, 2010
7:45 pm
The reason we had such great teams back then was from the big 4 Avery, maddux, glavine, smoltz
they also had finalization of a championship team . There is no way to fix the past . The last 11 years have been really sad . No world series in 11 years . But that does not mean the braves will never go back . They may get lucky . But until they get there roster in order and get the right guys to play . Then no more world series . The 1990s is over . That was the golden years of the Braves . I do not see that ever anymore . but can they win another one ? Yes ..But only if they go after the right players ..You can not make it to the world series playing 50 50 ball . 75 or more . And sometimes that will not get u there…In the future is hard to predict looking at the past
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:46 pm
Boy I am sure hoping that Cliff Lee handcuffs the Yankees tonight! Giants v Rangers World Serious would be awesome four shore!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
7:47 pm
As time goes on the Tex trade continues to look worse… balla
I guess we don’t agree on anything. only guy I really miss is Feliz and we have 3 more that are almost as good perhaps. . Andrus regressed defensively this year and has not hit all that well, again considering that he is in an extreme hitters park, he’s a 634 career hitter away from home. , as Young is a career 719 hitter (675 this year) away. We could do worse I guess considering their usually good D (both Gonzo and Esco outplayed Andrus this year) but I ain’t very excited by either one at this point in their careers. and I do not think either one is an impact player on this team.
Jake W.
October 18th, 2010
7:47 pm
Not that i’m rotting for a Texas-Philly World Series but wouldn’t it be something if Texas were to pull off the upset and beat the heavily favored phils and the difference in the series be Cliff Lee. I know baseball wants the Yankees there for ratings but in terms of drama I think thats the best matchup. Still pulling for a Giants/Texas series but that other one could provide such better theater imo.
Danga
October 18th, 2010
7:48 pm
No way I’m rooting for the Giants. I’d much rather see the Phillies go just in order to watch better baseball.
Jake W.
October 18th, 2010
7:49 pm
rotting, geez, horrible spelling, i’m rooting
nolie
October 18th, 2010
7:50 pm
me too Danga.
Jake W.
October 18th, 2010
7:51 pm
No way I’m rooting for the Giants. I’d much rather see the Phillies go just in order to watch better baseball
Why, they’ve been almost identical teams this postseason. They have won behind not much offense, great pitching, and capitalizing on other teams mistakes.
ccrider
October 18th, 2010
7:51 pm
DS1: can’t agree with playing McLouth everyday over Infante and Infante isn’t that much difference at 2nd base over Prado defensively. McLouth as a sub is bad enough, but his defense has been poor, his arm is worse and his hitting speaks for itself.
The lineup I suggested with Infante rather than McLouth has no holes in it offensively and Kemp in CF is better than McLouth.
Danga
October 18th, 2010
7:51 pm
Agree 100% nolie…Texas got a lot of names in that deal, but Feliz is the only true difference maker in that group.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:52 pm
Our biggest albatross right now is paying Chipper for questionable output. Not that I lay any fault on him or the Braves. It is what it is. And having a couple of other guys eat upwards of another 15 million for minimal output: McLouth and Kawakami.
I like both those players, but not sure they are going to put it all together in ATL. FW seems to have given up on Kawakami. Not sure why, but he must have his reasons. He truly didn’t pitch nearly as bad as his record indicates last year.
And if we can just get McLouth to listen to Chipper more, maybe he can find his pre-Atlanta stroke.
Otherwise, I like that we are building from within. Prado, McCann, Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Medlen, Minor, Venters, Kimbrel, etc.
FW needs to just resist the urge to trade away too many of our hot prospects. A couple would be OK for a bat, but hang onto as many of them as possible.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
7:53 pm
main thing that bothers me about Young is that he had a worse season this year away from ‘zona than his already poor career. In my mind that does not bode well for acquiring him, though you never know for sure until its all over
Danga
October 18th, 2010
7:56 pm
Really? Phillies scored 2nd most runs in the NL, Giants 9th. And that lineup wasn’t even healthy till the stretch run.
Atlanta braves fan of south
October 18th, 2010
7:56 pm
I think a lot of other teams fans was happy to see Atlanta get worse tho like the fans that do not like them . Having seem them in the world series in 5 times in the 1990s must have made most of the teams mad . But that is a story for another day .
nolie
October 18th, 2010
7:56 pm
Our biggest albatross right now is paying Chipper for questionable output DS
if he can play 125 games and hit close to what he was doing for the 6 weeks B4 he got hurt, I’ll be more than happy with his contract.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
7:57 pm
ccrider
You must be watching the good defensive twin of Omar Infante if you truly don’t see much difference between him and Prado.
And McLouth only plays if he returns to his pre-Atlanta form. Otherwise, he will be sent down or released.
I love what Infante has meant to the club, but he is my ace in the hole to rest/replace Chipper. Unless we pick up another corner infielder to be Chipper and Freeman’s caddie.
CB
October 18th, 2010
8:01 pm
I would love to get a Luke Scott type LF to go with Diaz,we can dream higher but realistically we will not get Crawford or Werth. It would give us a more solid lineup to go with great pitching and hope Nate can revert to norms. My next choice would be Hunter Pence.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
8:01 pm
if he can play 125 games and hit close to what he was doing for the 6 weeks B4 he got hurt, I’ll be more than happy with his contract.—nolie
Me too. Most definitely! My point was he is such an unknown until he gets back out on the field. Like Crime Dog stated, I hope he plays the next 2 years and gets his full pay. I think that helps the Braves a ton.
nolie
Have you ever checked the splits from home to away for ALL baseball players? I was just wondering. For the most part, most guys perform to a higher level in their own comfort zone.
I too am critical of guys with poor home/away splits, but I have started to wonder if that is a fair evaluation??
Where would you find that data?
Jake W.
October 18th, 2010
8:02 pm
Really? Phillies scored 2nd most runs in the NL, Giants 9th. And that lineup wasn’t even healthy till the stretch run
I was referring to the postseason only but I believe yahoo had a comparison between the two teams before their series began and it was surprising how alike the two teams were. Just watching that game Saturday, given the location of the four homers hit by both teams, if that game was played in San Fran Lincecum pitches another shutout because he gave up two opposite field homers that are easy outs in their cavernous ballpark and Ross’s since they were pulled down the left field line are still likely out. Gotta lead me to believe that although philly is known for the more potent offense that they also took advantage of playing in that bandbox. Besides their offense hasn’t been nearly as good as years past, a lot of the same names but just not that same blow you out every game lineup. Pitching has been their calling card this season.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
8:02 pm
And McLouth only plays if he returns to his pre-Atlanta form. Otherwise, he will be sent down or released
they are VERY unlikely to eat almost 8mil by releasing him
nolie
October 18th, 2010
8:10 pm
it’s a fair evaluation if a guy has splits much more that 100 points apart. actually it isn’t always the splits, I am more interested in what he does away. For instance a few years ago Young had very similar splits…because he absolutely sucked at home too.
I agree that a guy might do better after getting used to another park, but in general just as Melkey showed this year, take a guy out of a hitters park when most of his production has been at that park, and his numbers are most likely not gonna be anywhere near as good as they were. They are gonna be closer to his away numbers than to his combined numbers. I’m sure there has been some exceptions, but they more or less prove the rule rather than refute it, and who can afford to take that chance.
and like I said I was especially unhappy to see Young actually regress from his career numbers.
Bat Masterson
October 18th, 2010
8:14 pm
Here is a quick remedy to KK,McClouth and Lowe guaranteed contract problem.
KK owed $7Mill next year
Mclouth owed $6Mill next year
Lowe owed 30Mill next 2 years
Renegotiate Lowe’s contract to be spread out over 3 years instead of two. That pays him $10Mill a year for 3 years. Take out Hampton insurance policy in case his arm blows out. The guy has a rubber arm that allows him to throw 85-89mph sinker and get major league hitters out. Will be able to throw that until he is 39 which is 3 years from now. Take the $10Mill saved over next 2 years and pay half of KK and Mclouth saleries for team that takes them and gives back a prospect or two. _ ijudgenot
Is this a serious comment? Shouldn’t there be a wink , an lol, or something following. I mean I’m all for letting jokes stand on their on, but damn, I’m not sure it is.
Last year the Braves tried to trade Lowe, which I don’t think he was to happy about, and now you want him to add a year for free. Because he just loves the hell out of us fans and all? Is that it?
Why not ask Nate to tack on 3 or 4 years to his deal for nothing, he’s the one that sucks. KK too, 3 years damn it, for free. Do it, do it now. My god
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
8:15 pm
HR Hamilton!! I love that guy
ccrider
October 18th, 2010
8:20 pm
DS1: Infante would be more consistent playing one position, he is a decent defensive player, but moving constantly from 2B, to SS , to 3B makes it really hard to excel at any position. The turn of the double play started by Glaus was a beautiful play. Plus, his bat far exceeds McLouth
McLouth misjudges balls constantly, has a noodle for an arm and doesn’t throw accurately.
I will be much happier with Infante’s defense over McLouth!
Bat Masterson
October 18th, 2010
8:27 pm
yeah that “big bat” never materialized last year did it? unless Bat Masterson on the board was a stand in _ nolie
nolie_
I try not to take it personally when people say we need another Bat.
There are probably some that think one Bat is one to many.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
8:38 pm
Hillbilly re: your 4:26 pm
Now who are those two? Don’t think I know who they are…..
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
October 18th, 2010
8:38 pm
DSI
I agree with what you said about McClouth having a comeback year. I think he will also.
DS1
October 18th, 2010
8:47 pm
ccrider
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I think Infante’s arm is not much better than Nate’s. Infante made a great turn on the DP in the playoffs sure, but he isn’t nearly as polished around the bag as Prado, and his throwing to first is much more erratic.
I don’t know what happened to Nate this year. When they played him in LF, he definitely looked bad. But he covers a lot of ground in CF, where a strong arm is not quite as critical.
Yes, I have my doubts about McLouth in the outfield, but who are you going to use to spell Chipper if Infante is your regular second baseman and Prado your left fielder.
Let’s just keep guys in their best positions. We don’t need too much fantasy moving folks around. Errors and missed plays count in real baseball.
Gary O
October 18th, 2010
8:52 pm
DS1,nolie,
Except for the 6 week stretch u mentioned, the chipper of 2010 looked a lot like the chipper of 2009.
So I am not expecting much from him next season. If he plays 130 games, I will be pleasantly surprised. And if he hits . 285, I will be pleasantly surprised.
I am a fan of chipper, and I appreciate what he has done for the braves. But I think we would be better off if he retired and became the hitting coach.
jeffrey d
October 18th, 2010
8:57 pm
If anything, we need more Bat Mastersons on here
Good stuff
October 18th, 2010
9:00 pm
Good stuff… I truly appreciate the thorough job you do on the Braves. It was a long article that took a great deal of time. I read every word and enjoy all the info you provide. Keep up the good work. As far as the Braves are concerned …most likely we want be able to really get over the hump until we get rid of Chipper’s, Lowe, McClouth and Kawakami’s contracts. However, once those are off the books this team could really get back in the mix.
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
October 18th, 2010
9:00 pm
The trade for Nate McLouth will and is starting to haunt the Braves already. Charlie Morton finally turned the corner on a horrible season by posting an ERA of 3.99 in his last five starts, four of which were quality starts.
I for one have always believed Morton would turn out to be a middle of the rotation starter and he will. Nate’s a good outfielder but I do believe the Pirates are going to come out ahead in this trade.
Shot Thru the Lockhart
October 18th, 2010
9:10 pm
I don’t think 5 starts of 3.99 ERA against watered down September line-ups quite offsets all the poor performances Morton has had throughout his career. He’s not even that young anymore. 27 next season.
Rodney Derrick
October 18th, 2010
9:12 pm
For those like me now having to wait until next year for more Mad Men and more Rubicon, one excellent option is the 6 part mini-series “Luther” which premiered Sunday on BBC America. Starring the everywhere (sort of like Johnny Venters) incredible actor and surely one of DOB’s favorites, Idris Elba (The Wire and currently The Big C and Boardwalk Empire, just to cite a few of his roles), and with a wonderful villainous Ruth Wilson plus the thoroughly exotic Indira Varma (Karma Sutra and Rome), you will surely be able to catch repeats this week before next Sunday’s second episode
Coach (2011 and Fredi G. a GO!)
October 18th, 2010
9:19 pm
Lockhart, you have a point. However, Morton’s resurgence came after a stint in the minors and the Pirates new pitching coach didn’t hurt either. So when Atlanta made the trade they knew what Morton was…..an enigma. A 6-5 right hander with absolute electric stuff, ten cent head and a million dollar arm. My opinion, he’s gonna figure it out one of these days and my Braves will be eating crow.
By the way, Derek Lowe didn’t become a full time starter until the age of 29, so Morton’s age is irrelevant.
DMBJAMS
October 18th, 2010
9:19 pm
I need some BIG Braves news in the next couple of weeks. I know Fredi was big news, but I guess I’m an addict.
Hello. My name is DMBJAMS and I’m a Braves baseballaholic.
I feel better.
DC Brave
October 18th, 2010
9:27 pm
Hi DMBJAMS! Admitting the problem is the first step.
My problem is that I am a Chipper Jones optimist on a board of pessimists.
Chipper will return next year, he will be good enough defensively, and he’s going to have an OBP of 400 on his way towards 25 HRs and 103 RBIs. And somehow, someway, it will be Chipper that delivers that key single that turns a 1 run inning into a 3 run inning. Oh yeah, he’s gonna play in 140 games too. BANK ON IT.
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
9:29 pm
I know Werth, Crawford and Dunn aren’t going to happen for the Braves. Too tight a payroll. We’ll just have to wait until after the 2012 season when the money is free to sign a big FA. But the outfield was terrible again this year and their aren’t that many big difference makers available if any. Do the Braves settle for someone that would be an improvement in the OF or try to trade away some top prospects for an above average power bat. With that said, who is even possibly available?
Some decent names out there in Mags and Scotty Pods that I wouldn’t mind seeing signed. The problem with Podsednik is he has no power.
Crime Dog
October 18th, 2010
9:31 pm
More idiots on the field in the northeast. Why does this only happen up there?
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
9:31 pm
DC Brave
Chipper has a chance to do something next year. Getting some time off and a constant workout due to rehab might help bring some of that power back. Rehabing that knee is a lot of lower body strength. I think he’ll end up with around 15-20 HR. I just hope is average comes back. I’ll take a high average with plenty of doubles out of him.
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
9:37 pm
A 6-5 right hander with absolute electric stuff, ten cent head and a million dollar arm.
A 6-5, 139 pound right hander with absolute……………………
If the pitching gig goes south, he could always be a marathoner. He already looks like the Ethiopians.
DC Brave
October 18th, 2010
9:39 pm
P’cola – I hear you. How are things down there by the way? They get the beaches clean yet?
As for Chipper…yeah, I’d take a lot of doubles. Based on everything we’ve been given to read about Chipper it just seems apparent that he is determined to go out with a bang. He wants to be known as a “dangerous” hitter the day before he retires…I think he’ll make it happen next year.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
9:41 pm
Charlie Morton finally turned the corner on a horrible season by posting an ERA of 3.99 in his last five starts, four of which were quality starts.
5 starts after all that crappy pitching? I think I’ll wait a bit thank you
braveshoo
October 18th, 2010
9:49 pm
I would play Infante in LF, and then you only need a CF. I would go after Jason Werth. He can play CF; bats RH; hits for average and power; and can steal a base when you need him to. I think you can get him for 15 million per year for 3-4 years, and I think we should do it. With our pitching, Infante and Prado setting the table, McCann and Werth and Heyward and Chipper driving them in, we could be really good. I want us to get Werth.
Kenny Powers
October 18th, 2010
9:52 pm
braveshoo –
We’ve been talking about Werth for weeks. It just isn’t plausible — the Braves can’t afford him. Your $15 mil a year for 3-4 years is very naive. Several other teams with a much higher payroll will pay much more for his services, and for 5-6 years.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
9:54 pm
Werth will likely get a 5 or 6 year contract
MikeInFl
October 18th, 2010
10:01 pm
Where in the list that includes Jurrjens, Lowe, Hanson, Hudson, Medlen, Beachy, Minor, Teheran, Delgado, Hoover and Vizcaino, would you insert Charlie Morton. Are we really lamenting the loss of Charlie Morton?
I guess there’s a lot to complain about with the Braves (or so I read), but I just don’t see losing Charlie Morton as very high on the list.
Hobo
October 18th, 2010
10:04 pm
Yes, Andrus is an atrocious hitter, finished 143/149 in OPS in ALL of baseball, and I think most of us would not enjoy watching him hit over 162 games.
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
10:08 pm
DC Brave
The beaches are great. I just attended the Brad Paisley concert on the Beach last night. The beaches are clean and look great. The clean up crews did a good job keeping them clean. You may get a tar ball here and there but for the most part everythings great. Just waiting for the tourism to pick back up.
UKUGA
October 18th, 2010
10:09 pm
I’d love to see Chipper play until the end of his contract, as well.
But “play” is the operative word here.
I want him playing. Not soaking his bunions, or massaging his obliques. Playing.
Third base. For the Atlanta Braves.
Bat Masterson
October 18th, 2010
10:12 pm
Thanks, jeffery d
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:23 pm
Freddie Freeman injured his left thumb on slide at third base in a Fall League game today. They’re calling it sprain for now; Braves official said he’d be examined further tomorrow.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:24 pm
given what non-PED players usually do in their real late thirties, I think you have to be realistic about what he will produce. Eddie Mathews retired around 36 done after 3 or 4 pretty mediocre years. Chipper will likely not hit 290 or 18 homers but he should still be valuable betting on base. Hopefully the will bat him second as so many here have wanted. 125 games of 380 or so OBP might not be worth the contract amount but will still help the team a lot.
Bat Masterson
October 18th, 2010
10:26 pm
That’s just great ………. Hope it’s not a bone bruise. Head first slide?
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:26 pm
CHARLIE MORTON to the rescue. My main man. Glad to see his good kicker to end the season. Are we penciling him into the KK slot on the roster, a #6 starter? Or would he be a #7 SP?
Or are we losing JJ to shoulder and knee miseries?
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:26 pm
1
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
10:28 pm
DOB Freddie Freeman injured his left thumb on slide at third base
Oh good lord…
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:28 pm
David O’Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:23 pm
Freddie Freeman injured his left thumb on slide at third base in a Fall League game today. They’re calling it sprain for now; Braves official said he’d be examined further tomorrow
My grandson broke his left wrist sliding into second this weekend.
Bat Masterson
October 18th, 2010
10:29 pm
Sorry to hear that richbrave. Been there, it sucks.
Bat Masterson
October 18th, 2010
10:30 pm
999
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
10:31 pm
Any particular reason why the name “Cory Hart” does not show up when we are talking about bringing a a big right-handed bat for the OF. He seems to have all of those attributes and is languishing in Milwaukee. Plus he does not have the maturity/personality problems that Colby Rasmus at Matt Kemp have (not that I dislike the idea of Rasmus or Kemp).
That being said, I am one of the few that believe that McClouth has turned a page. If he can hang out with Chipper more I think we will see his production mirror what he did upon his recall from AAA.
glord1
October 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
Anyone thinking Chipper is headed for a big bounce back at 39 is probably kidding themselves. The last two years he has averaged 14 hr 58 rbi and hit .265. He has gotten 500 ABs once in 7 years. He has not driven in 80 for over 3 years.
If he goes 15 HR 70 RBI and hits .280 I would be thrilled. Not alot of bang for the buck when paying 14 mil.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
oh and by the way 1,000!!!!! (o.k. I am done.)
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:35 pm
Hart had a pretty good year in ‘10, but the two years b4 that were 750 years. not sure what you are gonna get with him, but he is probably on that second tier that our new OFer is likely to come from unfortunately.
and yes I’d like very much to be wrong about that
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
10:36 pm
richbrave My grandson broke his left wrist sliding into second this weekend.
Yikes…sorry to read that! Hope it heels well…
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:36 pm
his OBP will likely be his biggest asset
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:37 pm
Why is Freeman playing in the fall league? He didn’t get enough playing time at Gwinnett? Freeman’s got something to prove? I don’t get whyFreeman is there.
Also, the on/off Chipper discussion. My gut is that Chipper goes to spring training to give his knee a test, see how his body is responding overall. I think Chipper’s going to find that he doesn’t have the mobility to play third any longer. I’m guessing he’ll retire then.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:37 pm
sorry to read that! Hope it heels well…
it was his wrist not his heel
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:38 pm
maybe Jeff, but I’m guessing he won’t.
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:38 pm
FREEMAN went 1-1 (3B) evidently before being injured in his fifth AFL game raising his average to .125 (2-16). Both hits have been extra-basers.
CORY HARRILCHAK has not been in another game yet.
TYLER PASTORNICKY no longer listed on the MLB ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE stats list.
None of the pitchers made appearances yesterday.
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
10:38 pm
Looking Forward
Didn’t Corey Hart just sign an extension w/ the Brewers? I thought he did about mid season and if thats the case he isn’t going anywhere this off season.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
10:39 pm
Thanks for the input nolie. That puts things very much in perspective.
My other recommendation would be Aramis Ramirez. The guy was a beast last year for the struggling Cubbies.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
10:41 pm
Enter your comments here
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
10:41 pm
When are players going to learn how dangerous it is to slide head first. So many injuries that way, and you don’t get there faster.
Oh yeah, and why the eagerness to have Matt Diaz come back next year> he has a lower OBP than Melky Cabera. I’m tired of his wild swings at balls a foot out of the strike zone
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
10:42 pm
Just looked it up. Seems like Hart is under contract through 2013. Heres the break down
‘11 6.5
‘12 9.0
‘13 10.0
I think he’d be a great fit but its unrealistic hes available. It would take a large package to move him. I wouldn’t mind moving one of the top young pitchers plus Schafer and some others to get him but I wouldn’t empty the farm for him.
TJ
October 18th, 2010
10:45 pm
P’cola Brave. You are correct. Hart signed 3 yr extension with the Brewers in August. 3yr $26.5M deal and your numbers are correct. No “no trade” clause though, but for that price I’m not sure the Braves will be interested.
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
10:45 pm
nolie
Hart’s ‘08 wasn’t terrible but it wasn’t great by no means either. He still accounted for 20 HR and over 90 RBI. Sadly we didn’t have any of that this year and would be great to have. I agree hes one of those second tier guys we’ll probably end up with but hes probably towards the top of that second tier list.
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
10:45 pm
nolie it was his wrist not his heel
Yeah, well…that, too!
You piece of work, you!
Braves Fan Since "80
October 18th, 2010
10:45 pm
Those head first slides……….
I am hopeful the Braves will add some speed and decent power even if it means we lose Matt Diaz…… I do not think he deserves an increase in salary……. I like he and Hinskie as Pinch hitters….not sure how Freddie is going to manage the team…… Like to see us at least get some potential in the outfield for july to september…. Our Triple AAA and Double AA are not great in position players
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
Right there with you P’cola. Maybe we move Dunn + Schafer. They might have to eat some salary in return given that both the above mentioned are young pre-contract players…or?
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
TYLER PASTORNICKY no longer listed on the MLB ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE stats list.
This says Pastornicky is still active.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l119&t=t_ros&cid=454
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
Ramirez hits better at home the last few years than in bigger parks. He hit 201 this year. He could be a nice fall back if Chipper fails but I think he has a pretty steep contract for that situation.. I still would have no problem with them getting Betemit back if he was cheap, strictly as a backup . I think he can play at third,first and LF IIRC. He has been erratic over the years but had an excellent year in ‘10. would depend on what he cost.
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:49 pm
THANX McFANN;
Preliminary x-rays appear to show a “green” break or crack in the growth plate. Shouldn’t be anything like the broken leg where the patella tendon was completely torn from the tibia (seven pieces). He broke the same bone at 11 skate boarding lower down near the ankle. Second breaks on the same leg are pretty unforgiving even for a youngster. Just ask BILLY WAGNER. Fortunately for all of us, it was WAGS arm not his leg.
Don’t see that lateral quickness TYLER used to exhibit. But CF suits him. He did catch the eye of an ANGELS scout though. So I guess some good may come out of it.
Braves Fan Since "80
October 18th, 2010
10:50 pm
Also, the on/off Chipper discussion. My gut is that Chipper goes to spring training to give his knee a test, see how his body is responding overall. I think Chipper’s going to find that he doesn’t have the mobility to play third any longer. I’m guessing he’ll retire then.
=========
So your gut tells you Chipper will leave the Braves in the same position as this year!
TJ
October 18th, 2010
10:51 pm
Looking Forward….. You do know that it’s two different spellings of the name for our guys, right? I mean it’s FREDDIE Freeman and FREDI Gonzalez… I’m just askin’…..
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:52 pm
nolie… Just making a wild guess about Chipper. But knees are really tricky, and pretty fragile, once they’ve been injured. A lot of ongoping pain, judging from friends who have had knee problems.
I certainly don’t think Chipper’ll walk unless managament settles nicely with him.
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
10:54 pm
richbrave—
Dang…
He did catch the eye of an ANGELS scout though. So I guess some good may come out of it.
Hey, cool!!
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
10:55 pm
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
TYLER PASTORNICKY no longer listed on the MLB ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE stats list.
This says Pastornicky is still active.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l119&t=t_ros&cid=454
Yeah KL:
On that page go to the bar that says stats and click on, then click on batting leaders. I noticed some of the other BRAVES players were listed then weren’t. Maybe he needs 10 AB’s to get back on or something. He has nine last I saw.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
10:56 pm
Braves Fan Since “80… Frankly, I’d rather Chipper have the good sense to work out a deal with Wren early this post season and retire. I think Wren needs and deserves the time to figure out the third base situation.
But I think Chipper’s determined to try out his knee in spring training and go from there.
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
10:58 pm
The answer to our outfield problems is Matt Kemp–plain and simple.
I think he would enjoy playing in Atlanta. I don’t know if he’s one year away from free agency or two.
The Dodgers could use a pitcher they could plug in the rotation now. I could see us giving them Beachy or Minor–packaged with Infante and a prospect.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
10:58 pm
TJ,
YES, I know, that is why it is “Freddies”….as in the plural. Otherwise the blogname would just be too long.
I am looking forward to the managing era of Fredi (Gonzalez) and the playing career of Freddie (Freeman). I live in Atlanta, but am not an idiot….and yes I do go to at least several games a season. I should go to more, but I am just starting my own practice and do not have much time or money at the moment. I watch almost every single game though, and I do follow their farm system.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
10:58 pm
I certainly don’t think Chipper’ll walk unless managament settles nicely with him.
now see I don’t see that as much of a determining factor at all, not that they wouldn’t work a deal but if he feels done I doubt he holds them up. For a HOFer who has done as much for the team as Chipper has done with contracts and changing positions there sure are a lot of Jones haters around here. Not saying that you are, but ol’ BFS80 sure sounds more disgruntled that Chipper’s career would lead most to be.
tiger297
October 18th, 2010
11:01 pm
little insurance wouldn’t hurt here folks
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
11:02 pm
Chipper’s not going to retire now and leave $26 million on the table. Would you?
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
11:02 pm
McFANN:
He’s gonna’ play basket-ball this season too. Keep your fingers crossed. He’s pretty small at 6′1+ 175-180, small forward. But you can get away with that in high school. Loves to rebound. He’s a pretty tough customer on the boards and around the basket. Outside shot like ATTILA THE HUN. No long-range touch at all. Not enough practice.
David O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
11:02 pm
Here’s a brief story about Freeman’s injury
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/10/18/freeman-injures-thumb-in-fall-league-game/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
richbrave
October 18th, 2010
11:03 pm
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
11:02 pm
Chipper’s not going to retire now and leave $26 million on the table. Would you?
No……….Hell no!!!!!!!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
11:04 pm
You piece of work, you! McFann
no doubt
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:05 pm
nolie… I’m actually not a Chipper hater. Chipper can’t help his being so injury prone since 2004. It is what it is.
Yes, Chipper has done a lot for the Braves. No denying that. But I do think he’s hanging on too long. But a lot of vets do, so Chipper’s not a rarity.
As far as working out a deal with Wren, well, I’m not being cynical, and I’m not suggesting Chipper is cynical. But, hey, it’s only common sense for Chipper to want some consideration if he stands down from a lucrative contract. And I don’t blame him. He should be adequately compensated if he opts to forego the balance of his contract.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
11:05 pm
yup, don’t matter how well of you are 26 mil is a whole lotta nickels and dimes
nolie
October 18th, 2010
11:06 pm
yeah I wasn’t saying that you are Jeff, just that there are more than I can understand myself
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
11:08 pm
I am not one of those Chipper haters. I feel blessed to have had the chance to see Chipper. He is first ballot HOF ala Mickey Mantle. He is almost 40 and is still contributing. I think Chip has earned his contract…however, I think that, even better, he will retire when he knows can’t play productively anymore.
I for one would not mind seeing him become 3B/Hitting coach, but maybe I am alone in that thought….
glord1
October 18th, 2010
11:08 pm
An interesting stat. Obviously everyone know the Braves lack power. Here is where the Braves rank if you add the RBI totals of their top three run producers and compare them to the rest of the NL. The top three producers were Glaus, McCann and Heyward. They totaled 220 RBI. That ranked them as them 14th of the NLs murderers rows ahead of only Pittsburgh and San Diego. The top run producers were the Brewers with 309 RBI (Hart, Fielder and Braun).
Interesting useless fact of the day.
Jeff R
October 18th, 2010
11:10 pm
Nolie, didn’t really think you thought I was anti-Chipper. Just don’t think Chipper is going to be much of a positive factor at third or in the batting order any longer. Now, if Chipper decides to play in 2011, I hope he proves me wrong. The Braves need plenty of production out of third and solid defense wouldn’t hurt.
D.J.
October 18th, 2010
11:12 pm
haha, Yankees imploding.
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
11:14 pm
What I could see happening is Chipper retiring after next season if he has a bad year, and then negotiating a settlement on the last year of his contract where he gets paid half of his final $13 mill
McFann O O – 6
October 18th, 2010
11:14 pm
Richbrave—
Hope he does well—Good luck to him!
nolie—
UKUGA
October 18th, 2010
11:18 pm
The key to the Rangers’ 9th inning explosion?
Pinch-hitting for Francoeur.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
11:20 pm
What do you guys and gals think of the Dunn + Schafer for Cory Hart deal? Is it feasible or recommendable?
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
11:23 pm
Dunn and Shafer for Cory Hart. Who the hell wants Jordan Shafer??
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
11:28 pm
Center piece is Dunn, the addition of Schafer is a wilder card with a potential upside gamble at the same position
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
11:31 pm
I would bet that if Chipper walked away, insurance would have to negotiate a settlement with him, not the Braves.
Doc Holiday
October 18th, 2010
11:32 pm
Man, baseball can be sweet sometimes.
Watching the phillies and yankees go for a combined 2-3 record is priceless….
I think Yankees might not be down but they are in some deep hole. They will have to beat CJ wilson and Lee in order to win this series…………..and They have both dominated them.
I dont see that happening.
Phillies on the other hand. have lost home field advantage. Things might get interesting tomorrow.
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
11:32 pm
I mean that the insurance company would have to settle with the Braves, while the Braves would still have to pay CJ since he was hurt while playing.
Moe Berg
October 18th, 2010
11:35 pm
“Dunn and Shafer for Cory Hart. Who the hell wants Jordan Shafer??”
Roman Gal?
Playoffs!!!!
October 18th, 2010
11:36 pm
The Yankees don’t have to beat Cliff Lee to win the series, as long as the win all the other games now.
Jeff "The Natural" Francoeur
October 18th, 2010
11:39 pm
I just texted to Mac- “How’s that view from the couch treating you”
Oh, and chicks guys with beards playing meaningful Fall ball!
Jeff "The Natural" Francoeur
October 18th, 2010
11:41 pm
I meant chicks dig guys wih beards playing Fall ball. But, who cares what you guys think because I’m on a championship team baby!
nolie
October 18th, 2010
11:44 pm
I don’t think so KL, insurance isn’t gonna cover retirement. He would have to prove he was physically unable to play I would think, and I would be surprised at that approach. Who knows for sure though?
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
11:45 pm
Looking Forward
Dunn and Schafer won’t be enough to get Hart. Its going to take someone special to pry Hart from the Brewers especially with him under contract.
You may be able to go with something like: Beachy, Vizcaino, and Schafer for Hart.
That may not even satisfy them.
Brian "a steady job" Mcann
October 18th, 2010
11:45 pm
Jeff–Only until they non-tender you next year.
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
11:46 pm
Frenchy, now theres a RH bat for our OF.
P'cola Brave
October 18th, 2010
11:47 pm
Frenchy, Nate, and Melky roaming the Ted. Theres offensive production. There averages together may not even eclipse Omars or Prados.
nolie
October 18th, 2010
11:47 pm
Schafer has no value at all to any other team at this point.
ATL_Bama
October 18th, 2010
11:48 pm
Great blog Dave. Here are five thoughts:
1) Why don’t the Braves try Heyward in CF? He sure seems to have the range for it and a good arm too. Corner OFs are easier to come by than CFs. Sure seems like putting Heyward in CF would make it easier to improve the pop.
2) Venters, Dunn, and OFlarety in the pen gives you a position of strength to deal from.
3) I would hate to see Infante traded because he is not only a good player, but a great insurance policy. He can play LF, 2B, SS, and 3B at a solid level.
4) Braves need to leave Prado at 2B. While his flexibility is valuable, it shouldn’t be abused. To do that they’ll need to bring in a quality backup 3B. Look for a guy they can use to spell Chipper but that they’d be comfortable running out there every day if Chipper didn’t make it back.
5) Could Lowe’s great performances down the stretch and when it counted in the playoffs make him a tradeable asset? Freeing up the bulk of his salary could let the braves do alot more in the offseason.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 18th, 2010
11:48 pm
How about Vizcaino, Dunn, and Schafer – basically the Javier Vazquez – trade for Hart. That sounds fair…does it not
nolie
October 18th, 2010
11:52 pm
Vizvaino is hurt. GMs do not trade good players for hurt pitchers.
keylargo
October 18th, 2010
11:53 pm
Nolie – How could the insurance company not agree that the injury ended his career if he chooses not to play? He was the starting 3rd baseman with 2 years left on his contract when he was hurt during a game. I know from my own experience that insurance would try to get out of it, but with $28M on the line, CJ and his team of lawyers would be hard to deal with.
nolie
October 19th, 2010
12:01 am
How could the insurance company not agree that the injury ended his career if he chooses not to play?
he could choose not to play because he was no longer all that good and I’m pretty sure the insurance company would claim it was age not injury. They would for sure have their doctors give him tests and if his knee passed those tests they would likely refuse to pay. Actually insurance is really expensive now on high priced contracts, who is to know what the Braves have on him? I’m just pretty sure that if their doctors say the knee is structurally sound that it would prolly have to go to court. I’m not claiming to know for sure but I do have some experience with injuries and insurance companies. Plus I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express just last year.
keylargo
October 19th, 2010
12:04 am
The more I think about it, I feel CJ would be able to draw the remaining part of his contract even if he did not play again. It all about the guaranteed contracts that MLB has and if you don’t think the Players Union would pay for an entire team of savage lawyers over this one, I think you would be wrong.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 19th, 2010
12:06 am
Nolie – yeah but you have to agree, when Vizcaino comes back, which is soon, he is a frighteningly good prospect. He was the best prospect in the Yankees’ system. Plus Dunn has been better than projected, I would argue. Further, good pitching is not easy to come by (only the Braves have this kind of depth). Thus Vizcaino + Dunn + Schafer is a great deal for Corey Hart…in fact it favors the Brewers but we might need to do it to fill the OF/RH hitter hole that we have. In the end though both teams come out stronger (you may note that scoring runs was not one of the Brewers weak points last season).
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 19th, 2010
12:13 am
Plus, I may add, none of the above mentioned Braves players have big contracts, where Corey Hart does. Thus the Brewers free up contract money in order to keep Fielder, while simultaneously addind great pitching depth and at least a back-up center fielder. That is what I would argue at any rate…
nolie
October 19th, 2010
12:13 am
may be but hurt minor league pitchers are not what another GM is gonna accept. There are too many who don’t succeed anyway even with out injury. He may again be a great prospect and he certainly has value to us, but If some GM traded a Hart or Rasmus for him now and he did not come back healthy, it would be near criminal negligence and his job would be in real danger. Just extremely unlikely to happen.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 19th, 2010
12:22 am
Hart does not equal Rasmus. Hart has a big 3yr contract and is older. Rasmus has 4(?) years before he becomes expensive and is a fantastic young outfielder who has more than proven he is capable of MLB play. Hart has less value both financially and potential upside than does Hart. Rasmus’ only flaw is his personality/immaturity. Thus the above deal is more than fair for Hart but might not equal Rasmus.
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 19th, 2010
12:24 am
“Hart has less value both financially and potential upside than does Hart” –
I meant Hart has less value both financially and potential upside than does Rasmus…
Moe Berg
October 19th, 2010
12:40 am
Rob Neyer is tallying up Cliff Lee’s impressive postseason stats:
So far this postseason Lee has: three wins, 24 innings, one walk, 34 strikeouts.
“In eight postseason starts — five with the Phillies last year, now three more with the Rangers — Lee’s 7-0 with a 1.26 ERA.”
“What’s difficult is putting Lee into context against everyone else. As brilliant as he’s been, it’s only eight starts and 64 innings. Andy Pettitte has now thrown 263 postseason innings. Granted, Pettitte’s 3.83 is hardly historic … but what about John Smoltz? In 209 postseason innings, Smoltz went 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA. What about Curt Schilling? In 133 innings, Schilling went 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA.”
For the full post: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/5881/rangers-lee-claims-spot-among-greats
nolie
October 19th, 2010
12:46 am
Thus the above deal is more than fair for Hart but might not equal Rasmus.
that’s true but has nothing to do with the point I am making. cause it would never be accepted, basic CYA 101. ain’t happening for any player of any value. very unlikely that anybody would take Jj toward a good player this year too, but at least he has some proven success in the bigs. of corse you are welcome to believe anything you want
Big Nick
October 19th, 2010
1:11 am
JJ,Delgado and Schafer for Matt Kemp. Sign Jeff Francis. Sign Nick Punto. Keep Farnsworth with a $3mil/1 yr deal. Sign Ty Wigginton.
Hudson
Lowe
Hanson
Minor
Francis
Kimbrel
Farnsworth
Moylan
Beachy/Marek
Venters
O’Flaherty
Dunn
Freeman
Prado
Gonzalez
Chipper
Infante
Punto
Wigginton
Heyward
Kemp
McLouth
Diaz
Mccann
Ross
Thomas
October 19th, 2010
1:28 am
D.O.B,
How many people make up the Braves Management Team? It seems to me that they are the most top heavy team in Baseball, am I correct in assuming so. I am just thinking some of that money paid to the front office could be used to help improve the team.
nolie
October 19th, 2010
1:48 am
what makes you think that Tomas?
nolie
October 19th, 2010
2:27 am
JJ,Delgado and Schafer for Matt Kemp
Bobby's Cox
October 19th, 2010
3:52 am
Chipper’s ACL,
I like the Bartlett idea. Love how that guy plays. Not sure they do it for Diaz however. Tampa has Jennings to take over for Crawford, and a slew of other serviceable outfielders (Zobrist, Joyce, Hawpe, to name a few). I’d expect Zobrist to bounce back next year. He could be a good fit for the Braves, too (plays lots of positions, good OBP, led the AL in OPS a season ago).
I’m down with the other suggestions (Pence, Kemp, Rasmus), though I’m not sure how we could acquire those players or what it would cost us in return.
DAP
October 19th, 2010
6:37 am
glord He has gotten 500 ABs once in 7 years. He has not driven in 80 for over 3 years.
thats because he walks alot. he has had over 500 PA 3 of the last 4 years. would have this year, if not for a freak injury. chipper isnt our problem.
semiballcoach
October 19th, 2010
7:29 am
quit bringing up shafer in trade ideas, at this point you probably couldn’t get as many baseballs as the braves gave up for greg olson for him
David O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
7:32 am
How many people make up the Braves Management Team? It seems to me that they are the most top heavy team in Baseball, am I correct in assuming so. — Thomas
I really don’t know where you got this idea. They are structured like most other teams, who all have similar numbers of assistant GMs, special assistants, directors of this and that. Titles just vary from team to team, but all basically have the same or very similar number of high-level officials.
Rob from SC
October 19th, 2010
7:59 am
DOB
Are the Braves confident it is just a sprain or are they concerned it is serious?
richbrave
October 19th, 2010
8:04 am
Damn I hate this budget crap. Where’s TED or ART when you need him? We got to get a first rate hitter in the line-up.
Rob from SC
October 19th, 2010
8:10 am
I don’t know if this was mentioned but under MLB.com transactions page it says Saito and Melky Cabrera were released
richbrave
October 19th, 2010
8:11 am
DOWN ON THE FARM:
BRAVES had nobody pitching as the DESERT-DOGS lost 3-6 to the CACTI from wherever. FREEMAN was the only BRAVES fielder until hurt sliding into third on his triple.
O.J.
October 19th, 2010
8:22 am
I think Juan Rivera or Nelson Cruz would be good options to try and get. What do you think it would take to get them?
O.J.
October 19th, 2010
8:26 am
richbrave, shouldnt it be down in the AFL? Minor league season is over isnt it?
richbrave
October 19th, 2010
8:31 am
O.J.
October 19th, 2010
8:26 am
richbrave, shouldnt it be down in the AFL? Minor league season is over isnt it?
I thought about that, and decided they were all minors players so the title would still be apropos. But have you got any suggestions for a better one?
BTW ROB from SC said SAITO and CABRERA had been released. I couldn’t find any follow up to verify the news, but saw the same thing under MLB transactions.
DAP
October 19th, 2010
8:32 am
OJ, nelson cruz would be the perfect fit. i dont know if he is gettable though. id be very surprised if there was any chance at all they would trade him. juan rivera probably isnt the answer we are looking for.
O.J.
October 19th, 2010
8:37 am
richbrave, yeah, you are right, no need to go changing it now. Keep up the good work.
keylargo
October 19th, 2010
8:50 am
The thing that is confusing about releasing Saito and Cabrerra is that Saito has no ties to the Braves after the 2010 season is over. No option year or arbitration. Why “release” Saito and not have to do the same with, say Derek Lee? If Cabrerra was released, it was inevitable.
Jeff R
October 19th, 2010
8:59 am
I really don’t think Freeman should have been playing fall league ball. Why? The guy had a spectacular year at Gwinnett. He was league rookie of the year. So Freeman needed more playing time in Arizona? To prove what, exactly? Seems to me Freeman has a strong skill set and a solid work ethic. Seems that he earned the time off. Spring training that far off? Wren blew this call.
Space Monkey
October 19th, 2010
9:31 am
DOB:
Thanks to you an Carrol for all the great coverage this year. I know how hard it is to be a beat reporter and produce a blog every day. Truly outstanding work and I hope the AJC knows it.
How much is Cliff Lee going to make next year? Do you think he will be a Yankee? Or will the Mets or Phillies get him and make life even more difficult for the Braves? The guy is a horse.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 19th, 2010
9:39 am
Wren blew this call.
So did all the other GM’s who have sent players to the AFL. The AFL is a higher brand of baseball than AA and AAA. Most of the players in the AFL are top prospects. Many clubs consider the AFL the last stop before the majors for many prospects. Jason Heyward played in 2009, Tommy Hanson in 2008 and was AFL MVP the list of All-stars from the AFL is long. Every game in the AFL is like a miniature futures All-Star Game. I think it’s a great place for players to get some final AB’s against top hurlers.
raleighbravefan
October 19th, 2010
9:41 am
Jeff R – Huh?
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2010
9:52 am
Hmm…
How about a McLouth/Francoeur platoon in LF
Sorry, couldn’t resist…
Me Thinks ......
October 19th, 2010
9:57 am
It’s interesting that so many want Chipper to retire, but want Crawford. Chipper has never had a season since 1996 in which his OPS+ dipped below 116. Crawford on the other hand has had only one season in his career in which his OPS+ got over 117. This past season, Crawford’s contract season, was the only season of his career in which Crawford had a higher OPS+ than Chipper. Crawford brings alot of other things with his D & speed, or at least he has, but he’s also 29 years old, and obtaining thirty somethings for the speed and D they used to have in their 20s ain’t too bright (especially when they’re merely just a little better than average with the bat).
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2010
9:59 am
^^ Yeah, but when has Crawford played as little as Chipper has in the last 8 years?
I myself do not want Crawford because I dont feel he’ll fulfill his contract, BUT I can understand why someone may want him…I mean c’mon, compared to what we’ve had out there…
Me Thinks ......
October 19th, 2010
10:00 am
I really don’t think Freeman should have been playing fall league ball. Why? The guy had a spectacular year at Gwinnett. He was league rookie of the year. So Freeman needed more playing time in Arizona? To prove what, exactly? Seems to me Freeman has a strong skill set and a solid work ethic. Seems that he earned the time off. Spring training that far off? Wren blew this call.
I hope you’re purdy, because you’re too dumb not to be
CraZyTRaDeMaN
October 19th, 2010
10:00 am
How about a McLouth/Francoeur platoon in LF
I was thinking Francoeur/G.Anderson but I guess Mclouth will work.
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2010
10:02 am
I hope you’re purdy, because you’re too dumb not to be
Why do I feel like I just stepped into Deliverance?
Hope is all I have left
October 19th, 2010
10:05 am
I know I’m a little late here but I live in NY and I’ve watched Carlos Beltran for a few years now. He’s a terribly unmotivated player and has always seemed to be a bit soft. I like the idea of his bat because the last few seasons he’s shortened up and has been driving the ball to the gaps (the type of hitter we really need). Just based on watching him player at the end of last year, there is NO WAY he should be playing CF anymore. I’d take him if we could KK and someone else (I wouldn’t be trading prospects for him). I don’t like the idea of getting rid of McLouth. He seemed to be doing better at the end of last season; I think with more at bats, a new hitting coach and maybe a little more help from Chipper he could re-gain his form. However, McLouth should be in LF as his arm does worry me.
Lew
October 19th, 2010
10:05 am
OK. Maybe it’s nothing but a difference in what we mean when we use certain phrases.
Aramis Ramirez was “A Beast” for the Cubs last year? Yeah, I guess a .241 BA, .291 OBP, .452 SLG% and OPS of .745 is somewhat Beast-like – when compared to what Nate McLouth did.
Yeah, Aramis hit 25 GR and knocked in 83 runs, but Wrigley Field and Turner Field are two different places. He wouldn’t put up those numbers in ATlanta. Well, the power numbers, anyway. We’ve seen that the low BA and OBP can be replicated.
BravePack
October 19th, 2010
10:05 am
I would definately go after Rasmus of all the players mentioned. Cardinals just re-signed LaRussa and obviously he and Rasmus don’t get along. He’s young and promising and I would think he comes with less baggage then Kemp as far as attitude even though both have one.
Jeff R
October 19th, 2010
10:09 am
CraZyTRaDeMaN & raleighbravefan… For Freeman, the fall league is just showcasing. Freeman demonstrated through the summer at AAA that he’s got the talent, skill set, and disipline to play at a major league level. What did Freeman need to really work on in Arizona? What didn’t he demonstrate at Gwinnett?
Freeman needed to be showcased? Why? I understand playing Freeman or any other player who needs to work on skills in the fall league (case in point, Jason Heyward, who didn’t have the benefit of a full season at Gwinnett). But I think Freeman damaged his thumb for no good reason. I think Wren blew it.
Me Thinks ......
October 19th, 2010
10:14 am
For Freeman, the fall league is just showcasing. Freeman demonstrated through the summer at AAA that he’s got the talent, skill set, and disipline to play at a major league level. What did Freeman need to really work on in Arizona? What didn’t he demonstrate at Gwinnett?
It’s more like what didn’t he demonstrate at the major league level? The kid needs more seasoning. the more pitch recognition, plate discipline, plate approach development you can get for a 21 year old against the elite of the minors, the better he’ll be.
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2010
10:15 am
I don’t know where this whole bad attitude BS comes from…
Just because he doesn’t get along w/ LaRussa, doesn’t mean he has an attitude…
LaRussa doesn’t and didn’t get along w/ many players…Scott Rolen is one of the best clubhouse guys in all of baseball…LaRussa hated him!
Lets just say it for what it is, LaRussa is a D*CK and we’d be lucky to end up with Rasmus…
That said, I would be ok with either Rasmus or Kemp because guess what, either one would GREATLY improve our OF.
Lew
October 19th, 2010
10:17 am
Dude sprained his thumb. It could have happened at Gwinnett. It could have happened when he was called up in Atlanta. It could have happened when he was deer hunting with Chipper or playing air guitar at home. Hell – didn’t Clint Barmes hurt himself tripping on stairs?
There’s still almost four months until Spring Training. I wouldn’t worry so much. It sounds like it’s not a big deal.
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2010
10:17 am
Ok, sorry, apparently some comments have just put me in a bad way right about now…
Why does Freeman NEED to be showcased?!
The ONLY reason you would NEED to “showcase” a player is if you were planning on dealing him…
Otherwise, the reason the guys are in the AFL is to see if they’re ready for the jump to the next level.
P-Town Brave ©
October 19th, 2010
10:18 am