Braves tired of planning while others play for pennant

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Lew

October 18th, 2010
10:52 am

JeffR-I agree and feel that is exactly what he’ll do. He’ll use minor league pitching in a trade for someone under contractual control for several years that has a good offensive/defensive upside – though who that maybe is a mystery to me at this point.

Now if we could just get Nate to .250, 12-15 and 65 RBI, too? Ah, to dream.

raleighbravefan

October 18th, 2010
10:53 am

I agree that we need to bolster the offense to whatever extent possible, including adding a hitter in the outfield. However, we would have won several games, especially in September, if we had just been able to tighten up the defense. That should happen when we are able to field a healthy team of regulars, and not have to rely on part-timers and utility players.

David O'Brien

October 18th, 2010
10:54 am

Frank from KS: I said Baylor’s name is one of those that has been mentioned.

DAP

October 18th, 2010
10:54 am

jeff r I’d like to see Wren add younger offensive talent rather than trying to lock down an older power bat.

what do we have against veterans around here? not every older player hits like garrett anderson, ya’ll.

DS1

October 18th, 2010
10:55 am

If we could find a way to add a Rasmus or Kemp; that improves our defense and hitting. If we could add someone like Young in AZ, that increases or defense and maybe our hitting, though he has a hefty contract.

And there are probably another dozen names out there that have been mentioned (or not) who would improve us.

My hopes are that we don’t decimate our pitching staff while adding players who can catch the ball with more regularity.

It’s fun to speculate, but until FW starts making some moves, it’s going to be hard to know which way he will go.

My guess is he keeps our pitching staff (Huddy, Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe) intact. Beachy, Minor or some of the minor league guys might be dealt. Sounds like my idea of keeping Kawakami until the spring to let him regain some value, is probably down the crapper now w/ FW’s statements. That would speak to the serious salary concerns.

UnretireBobbyCox

October 18th, 2010
10:56 am

Oh, raleighbravefan: my favorite people on this blog are .Don and Robert. I sometimes suspect they are one and the same person. Except, .Don does not use the animal analogies (donkey)… :D

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
10:57 am

Lew, I respectfully disagree. The braves have about 18% of their payroll tied up into Derek Lowe. Yes, he’s a good pitcher, but he isnt worth the money that he’s receiving. This is exactly why he’ll be a Brave in 2011. Not one team is willing to take him and his full salary. It would create another hole by moving him, and yes, the braves would need to bring in another starter to replace him. Hypothetically speaking the Braves could bring back Vasquez and sign Ordonez for less than what Lowe is making. Either way, its not going to happen and its a moot point.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

raleighbravesfan-I’d love to see them add a slick fielding middle infielder for late inning defensive substitution. Maybe someone who could play 2B SS and 3B. I;d rathr use Omar for outfield substitution or if someone needed to miss appreciable time. Dude had a great year offensively, but we saw all about subs and defense.

DS1

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

DAP

So long as the older player doesn’t hurt us too much in the field. I don’t think Magglio Ordonez is the answer. While he may hit, he is not going to come back stronger from a broken ankle.

Before I’d add poor fielding outfielders, I’d rather take a flier on Ankiel at a fair price. At least he can go and get the ball.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
10:59 am

The Phillies were just a machine going into late August through September. Unfortunately, the Braves slumped at the very time they needed to surge.

Can’t recall exactly, but didn’t the Braves finished September 14-16? Starting September, as I can remember, the Braves were playing .590 baseball, or thereabouts. If the Braves had played .590 ball in September, they’d have won 95 games, I believe. That’s two games behind the Phils’ final record (97-65).

But food for thought: Would a Braves’ team playing September ball at a .590 clip have lost 5 out of 6 games to the Phils? Pure guess work, of course, but maybe not. Maybe the Braves would have taken a couple or three more games from the Phils and eked out the division title.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
10:59 am

unbelievable – Dude, answer this – Who do you replace those wins with?

Sorry, but he won’t be traded and not because no one will take the salary.

DS1

October 18th, 2010
11:01 am

I’ll give Infante a 50/50 shot at being dealt this winter. Sell high.

LTBF

October 18th, 2010
11:02 am

keef 6:31 all of this “analysis” is moot. Until Arthur Blank buys us and raises payroll by about ONE HUNDRED MILLION to $180 mill,

I too would like to see A. Blank buy Braves, but I believe NFL has rule thier owners cannot own other sports teams, besides even Blank would not raise payroll to 180 mill. We are not a major sports market like NYC or LA.

DS1

October 18th, 2010
11:02 am

Jeff

Mid August to the end of the season, it’s hard to overcome the injuries the Braves suffered. Yes, I think we might have split with them if we had been at full strength or close to it.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:03 am

Vazquez will cost more than the rumored $4 mil and after the year he just had, I’d only bring him in as a low rotation pitcher, rather than use MInor or Beachy. I’m not seeing him as a win for win replacement of Lowe. Way too risky at this point.

I like Javy, but Bobby Cox won’t be back and Javy may not be as happy this time around, especially since the Braves traded him to hell.

And again, why would Wren make more work for himself by even having to get another pitcher. Dude has enough on his plate. The money you would save after replacing Lowe won’t make the difference you seem to think it will. You won’t trade Lowe’s salary for Werth or Crawford. You’ll trade it for a lesser pitcher AND a lesser outfielder.

GboroBravo

October 18th, 2010
11:04 am

DOB, there are 2 good dramas on major networks, The Event and Fringe….both you could classify as Sci-FI/Drama but drama nonetheless. Rubicon has been great, really enjoy its twist and turns. Have you seen the previews for The Comeback (I believe thats what its called on FX, about a boxer). Looks interesting as well.

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
11:04 am

Lew – thats exactly what Ive said, no one is going to take him. Win-Loss records are a stupid argument. Yes he won 16 games and couldve won more. He sure as hell couldve lost a lot of those also. Let me ask you this, who had the better season, Lowe or Hanson? Just wondering your thoughts?

Trader Jim

October 18th, 2010
11:04 am

Braves get: Beltran
Mets get: McClouth and KK

DS1

October 18th, 2010
11:05 am

I agree with Lew. Lowe stays. The Braves won’t eat any of his salary this time.

If FW dealt Jurrjens (unlikely in my opinion) or Minor, then Vazquez might be an option.

raleighbravefan

October 18th, 2010
11:05 am

Lew – Agreed… and this is a point you made numerous times, about using utility guys full time.

I also think Lowe is worth what he is being paid, and it would be hard, if not impossible to replace his wins for less $. The biggest problems are that Medlen is out (almost) all year, and we have no idea what we will get from JJ. If JJ makes a big comeback, we could then consider trading him or Lowe.

Charles

October 18th, 2010
11:05 am

I still have no confidence in their ability to make the kind of deals that need to be made. Wren gave us Farnsworthless and Ankiel when he could have landed Cody Ross for a lot less than what you’re talking about now. And when it became apparent in August that Ankiel/Farnsworthless was a pig in the poke, why didn’t they claim Ross off waivers. . That would have solved the outfield problem If f he played for the Braves as he has for the Giants, we would still be playing now.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

Well, it’s been fun Denizens, but the drawing table and Very Hard Rock and Roll beckon – Maybe some Ancient Bards and some Stratovariius.

I’ve got some more promised artwork ready to go out next weekend – maybe not quite all I owe, but most of it. Thanks for the patience.

Later.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

DAP…

“what do we have against veterans around here? not every older player hits like garrett anderson, ya’ll.”

One, the vet bats I’d like the Braves to obtain (Jason Werth, for example) carry price tags well beyond what the Bravrs can afford this winter.

Two, I think it’s good to keep an eye to the future. Look the 90s Braves, like today’s Phils, develop a strong core of homegrown talent. Both teams then added veteran help to continue to make them competitive. Nothing wrong with that model, but…

The Braves still need to add younger players to build their core. And younger players are less likely to breakdown. Geez, Chipper’s an injury waiting to happen. Saito had age-related problems. So did Wagner. Gonzalez is getting older. An so on.

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

I agree with Lew. Lowe stays. The Braves won’t eat any of his salary this time. – DS1

exactly what Ive said. The Braves wont be able to move him

UnretireBobbyCox

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

DS1 – Infante isn’t going anywhere since he is very versatile and won’t make much $$$ next season!
Here’s a question for everyone: what if Chipper finds out during/just before Spring Training that he will not be able to play at the level he expects and retires… That should free up come $$…

DAP

October 18th, 2010
11:07 am

DS1 Before I’d add poor fielding outfielders, I’d rather take a flier on Ankiel at a fair price. At least he can go and get the ball.

ugh….*facepalm*

DS1

October 18th, 2010
11:07 am

unbelievable

Hanson.

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
11:08 am

Infante is also in his last contract year and has peak value. The braves should explore his value and I wouldnt be surprised to see him get traded

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
11:08 am

DS1- I know, Im just wondering because Lew thinks wins are the most important stats for pitchers.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:09 am

DS1… true about the injuries, but other Braves slumped. Didn’t help.

raleighbravefan

October 18th, 2010
11:09 am

Best show on TV is the Closer on TNT.

semibalcoach

October 18th, 2010
11:10 am

DOB–
i read that rockies were going to put baylor in front office position or something like that, is that a demotion from hitting instructor?
do you think a person would turn down a f.o. position to remain in uniform? (other than as a manager)

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:10 am

One last pint about Lowe. Over the past nine years (and yes, I know no one likes wins anymore), he’s won 21, 17, 14, 12, 16, 12, 14, 15, and 16 games (should have been around 21 this year).

This is an irreplaceable pitcher. All baseball players make way too much $$$ according to most of we ordinary earners, Lowe just makes a bit more than most of them, that’s all.

Quite honestly, the MLB minimum would be a good raise for us.

LTBF

October 18th, 2010
11:11 am

I am a little worried about Freddie Freeman, 1 for 15 against AFL minor league pitching. We should sit him down, let him rest till ST.

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:12 am

I have a feeling McClouth is staying. I don’t quite think he’s Frenchy 2.0. I’m not sure he’ll find his stroke again, but he’s not a head case like Jeff. He’s taken responsibility, and didn’t whine about going to the minors. They will give him a chance to get better (might not have a choice), and he has the right attitude. It sucks to have to pay him all that money, but I’m rooting for him.

Tomas

October 18th, 2010
11:12 am

Gary O, personally I don’t think they should pursue another bench player……..Barbaro Canizarez could definitely play 20 games at 1B and be a good pinch hitter(obviously his defense suxxs but he can hit and he is right handed)..

Prado could play 20 games at 1B…

Matt Diaz, David Ross, and McCann would be awesome if they learned a little 1B.

Resources are very limited, and I think every single one of them needs to go for an OF, even if it’s only Magglio Ordonez….

I think that the Kemp for Jurrjens idea is pretty good for both teams…..But if it happens it needs to be straight up, and the Braves need to sign a pitcher in the FA market, and eventually sign Kemp long term

raleighbravefan

October 18th, 2010
11:12 am

Charles – We couldn’t/didn’t wish to pay the asking price for Cody Ross before waiver deadline. We COULDN’T claim him on waivers because the Giants claimed him, and had the only rights to him at that point. That’s how post-waiver deadline trades work.

DS1

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

Charles

Florida is in the same division as the Braves. I think we offered Dunn but they wanted Medlen. Also, you are aware of the strained relations between the two teams? Bobby ripped them for firing Fredi, and they refused to honor him in any way on his last visit to Florida (only team to not honor him in some way).

So, later they put him on waivers, and the Giants claimed him BEFORE he could fall to the Braves.

Are the facts getting in the way of your desire to lay blame?

Trader Jim

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

Braves get Beltran
Mets get McLouth and KK

FA Signings: Cody Ross or Magglio Ordonez, Vazquez

. Don

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

Granted, my evaluation was based on how bad things could/may be.
But On the positive side:
Chipper COULD possibly rebound and have a decent season as a hitter and perhaps even play adequate defense.
JJ’s shoulder COULD possible heal/be restored to what it was and him be as effective as he was in his first year.
McLouth COULD possibly start hitting as good as he did in his one good year with the Pirates.
Freeman at first base COULD prove to be a productive major leage hitter.
Lowe, even though a year older, COULD pitch something close to the way he did in the last month.
Assuming that Lowe and JJ are effective along with Hudson and Hanson, the Braves COULD come up with an effective 5th starter from one of their rookies or Kawakmi COULD suddenly start being effective.
Infante COULD be used as a regular in Left Field and have another good year or the Braves COULD someway acquire a good hitting Left Fielder.
Gonzo COULD start playing good defense at Short and start hitting effectively.
And we assume that Prado will bounce back effectively from his injury and that Heyward will be good in his second year and that the Bullpen will be effective.
All of these things COULD happen, but the point is that several of them are probably not very likely.

DAP

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

jeff r I think it’s good to keep an eye to the future.

right on. the braves will have prado, heyward, freeman, mcann all in the lineup, with young hurlers hanson, jurrjens, minor, beachy, venters, kimbrel, dunn, creating a deep staff.

dont you think thats plenty of youth foundation? i say add some vets to bulk up this team, get a young controllable player if its possible, and he is good enough, but its time to fill up spaces with some proven good players.

keep an eye on the future, but dont sacrifice the present for what could be.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:14 am

Lew’s right about Lowe. The guy’s never been a staff ace, but… Yes, he was hyped as an ace when Wren signed him, but Lowe’s pretty much done what he’s always done: 15/16 wins; close to 200 innings/4.00 ERA. IMO, he’s a good 3 or 4 in a solid rotation.

But, to his credit, Lowe was a stud in the stretch drive and post season. Again, IMO, he earned his money just for how he kept the Braves in the hunt.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:14 am

I don’t know that they’re the most improtant stat, but, then again, I do no longer play fantasy abseball. When they quit determininhg who wins divisions and series by how many wins we have, then I’ll quit attaching importance to them. And if they’re so meaningless, why do so few win that many?

Yeah, there’s other things I look at like ERA, WHIP, AVG against and K to BB rate, but wins mean a lot. They mean everything. The team with the best ERA doesn’t always win it all and no one ever decided a division tile with their WHIP do they?

Besides, we’re talking importance to the team here and NOT who’s winning the Cy Young Award.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:18 am

DAP… I don’t think adding a talent young power prospect subtracts in anyway from the Braves’ competitiveness in 2011. I do think that:

1) a young power prospect is more gettable than a bona fide veteran power bat.
2) the Braves have plenty of veteran help in the lineup; the left side of the infiled (Chipper and Gonzalez fill that bill).

Adam

October 18th, 2010
11:18 am

DOB,
Game 4 of the ‘99 World Series was at Yankee Stadium, not the Ted. I know, I was there. Who can forget a Clemens-Smoltz WS matchup, even if it ended up being a forgettable night for the Bravos? My second World Series clinching game seen in person – unfortunately, only one was a Braves victory.

Mitchell

October 18th, 2010
11:18 am

JASon

October 18th, 2010
2:22 am
It seems like bobby realizes he’s not the greatest manager.

One day, all of these people defending him will wake up and realize what we have been trying to tell them all along: we should have been much more competitive in the postseason than we were. Atlanta natives should have enjoyed at least 3 or 4 championships over the period of time in which we had an embarassment of riches playing for us. The most embarassing thing of all, though, is the fact that so many “southern idiots” (as I call them) still defend him. I am from Atlanta but am not afraid to call it like it is: most people down here are dumb.

Nice.

semibalcoach

October 18th, 2010
11:20 am

raliegh—–can’t stand segewicks forced accent

Jason

October 18th, 2010
11:20 am

Does anyone proof read their columns anymore?

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:21 am

Wins count for pitchers. Do we really talk about great starting pitchers with referencing their total number of wins? Spahn, Maddux, Glavine – all members of the 300 wins club? Doesn’t matter?

raleighbravefan

October 18th, 2010
11:23 am

.Don – None of the promblems you just recited are Bobby’s fault IMO. Now you are predicting failure with Bobby gone. It’s absurd to continue to blame Bobby for future faiure, and a stretch, based on your own assesments of our shortcommings, to blame Bobby for most PAST failure as well. But then, why should you start using truth and logic NOW?

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:23 am

Don

What is your solution to fix the team?

(crickets chirping…)

GTSteve

October 18th, 2010
11:23 am

DOB, or anybody else….Why is Pastornicky playing 2nd in AZ Fall League??

DAP

October 18th, 2010
11:25 am

jeff r, i got you, man. i dont think we disagree on this. ideally how the team is made up is not how it can always happen. some teams have young outfielders and no pitching, for instance.

anyways, my goal is to get both, anyways. ive been saying id like to get magglio ordonez and colby rasmus this offseason. im not sure based on wren’s comments, though if he will be making any big trades. because any trade the braves will make would surly involve at pitchers, right? how could a team deal with us and not get some arms?

raleighbravefan

October 18th, 2010
11:26 am

Owl – He doesn’t want a solution. Winning = an end to complaining.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:28 am

GTSteve-To play second in case Martin needs to play third cause Chipper’s either not ready yet or hurt?

David O'Brien

October 18th, 2010
11:28 am

GTSteve: Looking at Phoenix Desert Dogs roster, they have four shortstops and only one other 2B on that team. So the Braves probably agreed to send him as a 2B, which will give him a chance to play some at another position while getting ABs.

CB

October 18th, 2010
11:28 am

DAP,pitching or top pitching prospects will be traded. Maybe Infante.

Tomas

October 18th, 2010
11:29 am

Wins counted, not much anymore, because it depends on the team you’re on, offensive support, defense, and bullpen.

UnretireBobbyCox

October 18th, 2010
11:29 am

Owl Hunter: the team does not need to be fixed… just some minor tweaking… ;-)

Steve McP

October 18th, 2010
11:29 am

Those people moaning about not getting Ross on waivers. Be aware that the Giants probably took him to block the Padres signing him, only if he had got past both these teams (which was very unlikely) would we have had the chance to sign him.

Signing him before the trade deadline was unlikely as he had an injury just before that and nobody was really sure if he was going to be fit, so it was probably viewed as a big risk.

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:29 am

Jason-Why? YOu need employment?

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:30 am

raleighbravefan

Seeing the trash that Don and Mitchell spout, they would find something to whine about if we won the next three World Series. “We could have swept them all…”, “The Yankees won more…”, “Bobby’s gonna find a way to get the wins stricken from the records.”

Lew

October 18th, 2010
11:30 am

Tomas-Yeah, those things never mattered before the days of Fantasy Baseball.

balla1881

October 18th, 2010
11:31 am

Trader Jim-
Biggest problem with your trade is that Minaya is no longer in charge of the Mets. Their not likely to make that deal, without an idiot in charge of the team anymore. O, and its in the division-I know we’ve dealt with them in the past but its still very unlikely. Got any other ideas?

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:32 am

UnretireBobbyCox

I totally agree. I was just reading Don’s “column” and wondered what his solutions are. Lots of whining, and no ideas. I think they’ll be fine.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 18th, 2010
11:32 am

Owl

Don has said before that in order to fix this team Bobby Cox and Roger McDowell needed to be fired and the great manager of the Cardinals should be hired. Due to him being “a great judge of talent and potential production”. He never misses the playoffs!!!! :roll:

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:34 am

balla1881

Yeah, I was bummed when Minaya got canned. He would have kept that team in the toilet forever. They have a chance now, at least. Too bad their owners are clowns, too.

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:35 am

LaRussa? Haha. Now that they crack down on ‘roids, what could he possibly do for us?

Ted M

October 18th, 2010
11:36 am

$7.75 mil for McLouth next year, WOW. There is absolutely positively no way he will be traded. The Braves would have to pay at least $6.5 mil of that. Nah, no way, nobody would pay $1.25 mil for McLouth.

It’s either the Atl Braves or the Gwinnett Braves for McLouth.

GTSteve

October 18th, 2010
11:36 am

Thanks DOB, that is what I was assuming….and Lew made a good point also, although I don’t think the Braves are counting on Pastornicky until 2012

UnretireBobbyCox

October 18th, 2010
11:36 am

Of course the Braves will be fine… One step at a time. First, Wren fixed the pitching. Now to see if we can upgrade the hitting; personally, I believe the Braves were actually a year ahead of schedule, but I’ll take it. The big question mark will be Chipper: will he come back and perform? He does claim that he will quit if he doesn’t think he can, but it will be very difficult to walk away from a few million dollars. If he does come back and performs AND the Braves can somehow get someone to play outfield AND hit, I believe it will be a fun year next year!

Ted M

October 18th, 2010
11:37 am

Matt Murton? My post was filtered.

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
11:40 am

Wins do matter, they just arent the best stat when discussing a players worth. Innings pitched also matter. Like I said Lowe is an above average pitcher making more than he’s worth. Im not so sure where all of this got side tracked. Lowe, according to fangraphs, had a 2.7WAR and worth $10.9 mil. This makes him a very valuable starter for the Braves team.

I like Lowe and Im hoping that he continues his recent trend. The Braves arent going to be able to trade him and Im fine with that.

gte268p

October 18th, 2010
11:41 am

Dave, could you sometime comment on what the prospects look like after next year when Chipper will likely be done (I assume he’ll be back because I believe he’s still our best option at third) and Gonzalez’s contract is up? Do we have anyone in the minors ready to come up and be solid contributors and long term Braves, or will we just be in trouble?

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:41 am

If we make the playoffs next year, we’ll be glad we still have Lowe.

VENEZUELA

October 18th, 2010
11:42 am

DOB, speaking of “best-of-the-year” this is one of your best POSTS! of the year!!! really …best of lucks for next season …hope to get some good rumors and news around here and twitter

unbelievable

October 18th, 2010
11:43 am

the best thing that I like about Lowe is his ability to eat innings. Id rather see him winning 16-17 games if he could keep his losses under 10 games too. He did have a lot of improvement in ATL this year. IP and BB ratio’s stayed the same. He did give up far less hits and he struck out more. It was a good year for him and I hope it continues. He’s going to be here for 2 more years

b

October 18th, 2010
11:46 am

owlhunter, I have to disagree with you about Nate Mc the carnival act.
He is a head case worse than Jeff F. I have never seen a player go into a bigger hole. There were several times this season Nate would not even make a throw in from the OF. His left field play was below High school level. His base running has gone down hill and his hitting was atrocious.
And I think a lot of it is due to his head. He did not sulk about his demotion because if he did, he would have looked like a buffoon.

David O'Brien

October 18th, 2010
11:47 am

Game 4 of the ‘99 World Series was at Yankee Stadium, not the Ted — Adam

You are correct. Thanks. And actually, including that game in the list would’ve made it nine. It’s eight elimination games at Turner Field, as I said. And the Braves have lost them all. My mistake was including that game. The other eight on the list were correct.

Again, thanks for pointing it out. It’s corrected now in blog.

Tomas

October 18th, 2010
11:47 am

Jeff R, all those 300 game winners have something in common, they went deep into games and finished them quite often. Pitchers now(with the exception of Roy Halladay, CC Sabathia, and Cliff Lee) never have CG….

Braves didn’t have a 9 inning CG this year, and they were considered to have one of the best pitching staffs in MLB…And they didn’t have a 20 game winner…..No offensive support and bad defense, were the reasons, it wasn’t lack of talent.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:48 am

DAP… no doubt teams will be after the Braves’ young arms. I’m generally opposed to giving up pitching for position players (never have enough good arms), but IF a GM gave the Braves two or three highly rated major league ready prospects for Jurrjens, for example – say a power bat OF and 2nd or 3rd base prospect – might just be worth it.

Whether or not any GM has that talent to offer is another story, I admit.

CraZyTRaDeMaN

October 18th, 2010
11:51 am

Owl
Larussa is a favorite of the .Dot.douchenator
The quote I posted a bit ago (“The Cardinal Manager is a great judge of talent and potential production.”) was a favorite of .Dot.Don-Key last off-season. It’s second on the all time .Dot.Don re-post list just behind the #1 all time re-post “Remember that it required Glavine to pitch a SHUTOUT in the final game for Cox to even be able to win the ONE.” What a classic!!?!?!?!

Tomas

October 18th, 2010
11:52 am

I like the quality start more than wins

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:54 am

b

I agree that poor play can effect a player mentally, and that’s why McClouth was sent down in the first place. I was complimenting McClouth’s willingness to accept responsibility. Jeff never did that, and he’ll never reach his potential until he does. I’m not saying McClouth is a lock to fully turn it around, but he has a good attitude. It’s definitely make or break for him this season, but hopefully his lack of entitlement will help him. He’s coachable.

Owl Hunter

October 18th, 2010
11:55 am

CrazyTrade

The Glavine thing is awesome! “If the Braves didn’t pitch well, and hit well, Bobby would never win anything.” Classic.

Jeff R

October 18th, 2010
11:57 am

Tomas… Generally, I’d agree with your assessment.

I’d say this, though, this era – starting pitchers not going deep into games – doesn’t compare to the era when many starting pitchers completed 15-20 games or more a season.

I think baseball historians will look at earlier generations of starting pitchers as superior to the current lot because most were expected to go the distance; they racked up the innings, complete games, shut outs, and the Ws. (Complete games is kinda joke category now.)

The rule still is a pitcher has to complete 5 innings to get a win. Too bad today’s starting pitchers, who may give six innings of well pitched ball and are leading when they leave games, are so reliant on their bullpens to obtain their Ws.

Jack Fate

October 18th, 2010
11:58 am

DOB,

Mad Men finale was interesting. Seems like MM finales do more to set up the next season’s story lines. And Matthew Weiner wrote for David Chase, who never had cliffhangers with Sopranos, which makes sense for both since so much time story time passes from season to season.

David O'Brien

October 18th, 2010
12:00 pm

Beginning with three straight losses to Yankees in 1996 World Series in last 3 playoff games at old Fulton County Stadium, the Braves are 14-24 in home postseason games. They are 14-21 in home postseason games at Turner Field, including 5-15 beginning with back-to-back losses to Yankees in ‘99 (always the damn Yankees….)

Lollygagger

October 18th, 2010
12:04 pm

C’mon. Trading for Carlos Beltran is not the answer… unless the question was who takes Glaus’ place on the DL.

GTSteve

October 18th, 2010
12:08 pm

It all started with a slider to Jim Leyritz

. Don

October 18th, 2010
12:08 pm

We can express opinions on and on, pro and con relating to Bobby Cox being or not being a good manager.
And opinions can be challenged on either side.
But one thing that is not an opinion and cannnot be challenged is his FAILURE PERCENTAGE relating to World Series Championships compared to Post Season Opportunities — A 93.75 PERCENT FAILURE rate – not even counting this year where admiditally the team did not really have a legitimate shot at the WS. And like it or not, you cannot change the fact that he was lucky to even have the one, with the Braves scoring only one run in the final game and requiring a shutout in order to win.

Gibby

October 18th, 2010
12:10 pm

Two other names I found over the weekend some beat writers said could be available. Carlos Quentin and Rajai Davis. Quentin is available if the White Sox land a big bat for the OF, and Davis could be had to make room for Chris Carter. Just feeding the OF frenzy going on right now.

Also, glad to see all the love for “Chuck” last night. Good show

P-Town Brave ©

October 18th, 2010
12:15 pm

Rajai Davis…?!

REALLY?!

P-Town Brave ©

October 18th, 2010
12:17 pm

GTSteve-

Yeah, and sadly, 14 years later, they still haven’t learned with the sliders thrown to both Sanchez and Huff :roll:

LTBF

October 18th, 2010
12:18 pm

I do not like quality starts. Three runs in 6 inns= a 4.50 ERA. THAT IS NOT GOOD

UnretireBobbyCox

October 18th, 2010
12:19 pm

.Don… there are countless other managers who didn’t even make it to the World Series. To be able to “fail” as you call it, one has to get there first. Which also means that Bobby must have done something right in the post-season games leading up to the World Series.
Oh, and Bobby Cox did NOT throw that pitch to Jim Leyritz.

Tomas

October 18th, 2010
12:20 pm

Derek Lowe 15 quality starts= 16 wins
Tim Hudson 25 quality starts= 17 wins

Run support

NEW CARS

October 18th, 2010
12:21 pm

I’m afraid that Cody Ross is playing his way out of our price range. He’s hitting more like he did in the past and the Marlins are looking like fools for giving him away. Dunn would have been better than anyone in their pen and it looks like Ross might have firmed up our outfield. What’s done is done, but for people on here criticize Wren for not getting him here, they might revisit all the conjecture at the time. We won’t know the facts, possibly ever, but most respected baseball writers were in agreement that the Braves approached Florida on numerous occasions about his availability.

P-Town Brave ©

October 18th, 2010
12:23 pm

^^ Cody Ross is playing his way out of a non-tender…

If I recall correctly, he’s still under team control for 2011, so therefore, we don’t have a shot at him anyways.

Trader Jim

October 18th, 2010
12:24 pm

Carlos Beltran is at a level hwere the Braves could buy low. It seems that every one on here is looking for players at a buy high time frame. There are players out there that had sub par years or were coming back from injuries that were not playing 100%.

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