Braves tired of planning while others play for pennant

That should be–’a decade ago.’

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Of all the arb-eligible players they should pay Prado and move the rest. All of them, unless JJ isn’t commanding proper return (something on the FAR north side of Cabrera value). I’d be exploring trade options for Infante and Gonzalez; would seem difficult to keep both of them. Listen to trade offers for Lowe, if any materialize.

This could well be the time for a serious Marlins-style youth movement, Part I, with Part II after Lowe and Jones move on and McLouth’s contract expires.

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It seems like bobby realizes he’s not the greatest manager.

One day, all of these people defending him will wake up and realize what we have been trying to tell them all along: we should have been much more competitive in the postseason than we were. Atlanta natives should have enjoyed at least 3 or 4 championships over the period of time in which we had an embarassment of riches playing for us. The most embarassing thing of all, though, is the fact that so many “southern idiots” (as I call them) still defend him. I am from Atlanta but am not afraid to call it like it is: most people down here are dumb.

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DOB-
Any chance that Pastornicky kid gets a legitimate shot in Spring Training? Seems like I recall that the Braves love his defense and his speed, but they were waiting for his bat to come around. I know it’s only a few AFL games so far… but as long as he proves he can get on base some sort of way at least once or twice a game or so, it sure would be nice to have a speedster atop the lineup for the first time in what feels like a decade. Thoughts on Pastornicky’s chances on being with the Braves MLB team in the next year or two?

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hi Steve-o

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ok be that way, I know I am now a pariah

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Hey noles,

In honor of you, and ‘OB’s Rubicon mention, I’m chaining their last four together tonight. Halfway home, and it is picking up. Subject matter is there; a little sizzle and…

I like your idea of waiting to watch a season all at once; if only I had the patience.

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Sleep well, old man.

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FG-hate-club was formed a few days ago. Members didn’t have to join; they were born that way. And, somehow, all the same cats. Who’da thunk it?

And this: “Just say thank you for the years, or thank you for leaving… and then move on.”

How good is that? Either way. what else is there? Yet the same folks can’t help themselves.

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that should make you very popular with the ladies, A Bomb.

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Frank from KS-
I figure it’ll be the first time the Braves get caught stealing or botch a hit-and-run. They’ll start saying “Man, I wish Bobby were here so we can sit back and be patient on the basepaths and wait for the three-run homer.”

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AMC has an amazing record with creating shows that induce lots of thought, and Rubicon joined Mad Men at the hip this year. Just hope it is renewed!

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all of this “analysis” is moot. Until Arthur Blank buys us and raises payroll by about ONE HUNDRED MILLION to $180 mill, (yes, payroll is going DOWN to $80 million) this conjecture is all about keeping us fans at bay from protesting Liberty Media. Liberty could care less….they’re pretty much saying…”buy your $150 jersey, go to 10 games and shut up…”
Please don’t say payroll doesn’t matter. Three words:
YANKEES
REDSOX
PHILLIES

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[...] $6.5 mill salary in 2011, plus there’s a $1.25 mill buyout on a $10.65 mill club option fro 2012. No team is going to take on that full salary after McLouth’s performance since he was traded to th… in June 2009, including a .190 average in 2010 with 12 doubles, six homers, 24 RBIs and a .298 OBP [...]

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keef–payroll don’t matter–3 teams for you to ponder

ny mets, la dodgers, la angels

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team payrolls for 2010
Yankees $201,449,189
Red Sox $121,745,999
Cubs $134,809,000
Phillies $113,004,046
Mets $149,373,987
Tigers $115,085,145
White Sox $96,068,500
Angels $113,709,000
Mariners $98,904,166
Giants $82,616,450
Twins $65,299,266
Dodgers $100,414,592

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Tomas,

Frank Wren says he wants Freeman to play about 140 games, so they want somebody who can start for him against certain matchups, and to keep him fresh. My guess is somebody right handed.

I’m not sure what to expect from him offensively (maybe 18 HR, .260 average), but defensively, he will be a huge upgrade over Glaus.

I can see the Braves keeping Hinske and Conrad as their bench players. Conrad can provide spot starts for Chipper and Prado, who are both coming off injuries.

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Don’t expect much more than what Atlanta fans have received in the last 10 years – occasionally competitive, wild-card worthy teams that in one department or another will fall short of LCS or WS.

Teams that are on the competitive see-saw and could fall the other way as well.

Wren says a whole lot of nothing in this article. Because he cannot commit publically to any course of action due to the payroll constraints that the Braves are currently under with this ownership.

Free agency is not a course of action that the Braves will employ to any real advantage because they cannot afford to do so. (so-called impact players)

So anything accomplished to do this will have to be effected by trading.

It would be prudent for Atlanta fans to temper their 2011 projections, as this current regime has established a mediocre track record to this point. Nothing so far indicates otherwise.

As Missourians say – “Show Me”…..

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cecil34 what Atlanta fans have received in the last 10 years – occasionally competitive, wild-card worthy teams that in one department or another will fall short of LCS or WS.

its interesting to see what qualifies as “occasionally competitive” to some folks. in the last 10 years, braves have made the playoffs 6 times. thats not too bad.

now, those teams have been flawed, and have fallen short, but i would still call that being fairly consistently competitive.

i do hope, though, that the braves take this opportunity they have to really bulk up the team. i know money is an issue, but it shouldnt keep them from making this team better than it was in 2010, and they were pretty dang good when they were right.

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I think Freeman is done, he isn’t doing well in the AFL, and bringing him up and not using him hurt him mentally!!

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I’m sorry but I have an MBA and their supposed “Accounting” is BULL!

Under no circumstances is it possible for you to remove 7.5 million for Wagner, 3.5 million for Saito, 3.2 million for Melky, 2 million for Glaus, and the combined 3 million they paid for Lee/Ankiel/Farnsworth for a TOTAL of roughly 17.2 MILLION COMING OFF THE BOOKS and WREN is trying to tell us that somehow the payroll is INCREASING!?!?!

Are they paying insurance equal to the dang contracts?

DAVE O’BRIEN help me here!!!

Even if those ARbitration guys cause an increase of 3 million you should still have 14.5 million to offer 10-12 million to get a big time bat, another million or 2 to pay someone like Andruw Jones and/or Cody Ross

WREN is selling us BULL here and I am a Braves’ supporter no matter what, But I don’t like being lied to or taken for someone who is stupid by Wren

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.Don: Gonzalez is going to hire Bobby Cox as his hitting coach…

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Hubbard and Kahadia are gone. Carlos Tosca is bench coach. Pendleton to 1st. Snitker stays at 3rd. New hitting coach coming.

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UnretireBobbyCox @ 9:25. Definitely post of the day and the early favorite for post of the off-season.

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DOB mentioned all the elimination games at Turner Field, in which we were eliminated. I wonder what has been our home record those seasons.

Just looking at this season, we had the best home record in the major league regular season, but then we go 0-2 in the playoffs at home. Why is that?

From mlbtraderumors.com;

Speaking of Ross, Andrew Baggarly of The Mercury News reports that Giants GM Brian Sabean left a “clear impression” before tonight’s game that the outfielder will be tendered a contract this offseason..

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I’m with those who favor a youth movement. There are enough solid vets here if Chipper makes it back to make a good run with the pitching we have. I’d rather get bounced from the Wild Card with inexperienced kids than bounced from the WC with injured vets. The young guys will be a nightmare at times, but then incredibly energetic at others. I’m lowering expectations for ‘11 and hoping we don’t trade the farm again. We created a new verb: “They got Texieraed”

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So, .Don: you are saying essentially that it had nothing to do with Bobby Cox after all. The Braves simply didn’t have the payroll to be competitive… thanks for clarifying!

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keyLargo, What about McDowell?

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I’d just as soon see Mac concentrate on his catching D and not worry about first at this point. He is not as bad as some on here claim

I agree with nolie. But don’t even KID about BMac playing for the Yankees!

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I think this season the team that went into the playoffs was a shell of the team that racked up that home record. In general, home field advantage probably matters less in the playoffs simply due to the quality of competition.

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DOWN ON THE FARM:

TYLER PASTORNICKY evidently is playing 2B in the fall league. Are the BRAVES looking for a back-up at second? We know he can play short. Is he being aimed at BROOKSIE’s job? He certainly won’t be able to hit pinch-hit homers with regularity based on his numbers. But hitting for average and solid defense from the fill-in at second could help us back to the post season as well. So maybe he becomes the next OMAR INFANTE?

I’m wondering out loud if BRAVES management is thinking along the lines of improving the defense first in 2011 to support the great pitching that’s here now and for the future. That was sorely lacking this season, and would have certainly improved our chances in the post-season. Maybe waiting for 2012 to try to improve the hitting. If that’s the case I sure would want SKI back.

Anyway, 3 G, 9 AB, 1 R, 4 H, 0 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, 2 RBI, 0 BB, 0 SO, .500 OBP, .444 SLG, .444 BA, .944 OPS.

CORY HARRILCHAK’s numbers are slipping in ‘ZONA. The ‘book’ has found the hole in his swing maybe, or maybe it’s just a small sample size and not that big of a deal. Anyway, he-e-ere’s CORY!!!!.

3 G, 14 AB, 1 R, 4 H, 0 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 BB, 2 SO, .333 OBP, .429 SLG, .286 BA, .762 OPS.

FREEMAN’s numbers I put up last night on page 4, 12:44 a.m. Not pretty, but again a very small sample size (15 AB).

CORY GEARRIN’s gotten in 3.0 IP with a 0.00 ERA and a 0.33 WHIP with 1 H, and 0 BB – 3 SO. He’s rebounded nicely from his melt-down on MLBN mid-season.

MIKE BROADWAY’s have stayed the same – 9.00 ERA, 1.33 WHIP for 3.0 IP.

ERIC CORDIER has not gone out again and his numbers have not changed to date.

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Yeah, Lowe is just average. Those 31 wins and 400IP are meaningless. Sheesh.

Lowe’s going nowhere. Do you even have a clue how much it would cost to replace those 16 wins from this year?

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.Don, Dude, give it a rest. How many times can you say the same thing about someone who is NO LONGER MANAGING THE BRAVES? Everybody on this blog knows how you feel, there is no need to waste your time repeating yourself incessantly. Frankly, its unhealthy to be so obsessed with someone to the extent you are with our former manager. For your own sanity, why not look forward to next year instead of complaining about the past?

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“The Braves are a self-sustaining division of the company, is one way of looking at it.”

Not exactly. They are part of a subsidiary called the Capital Group, which includes a lot of entertainment interests, such as movies. The Braves, however, are pretty much bit players in this group, since they are barely mentioned in the revenue summary and it’s pretty clear that management doesn’t see the Braves as an important part of their business plan.

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Lew, Lowe is better than average. However, he’s a $8-9mil pitcher make $15mil the next two years. Its simple financials, that’s not a good asset.

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Fred

October 18th, 2010
10:10 am
.Don, Dude, give it a rest. ………. For your own sanity, why not look forward to next year instead of complaining about the past?

The dark side IS .Don’s sanity. It’s the way he sees things. Doesn’t bother me, I get that way sometimes myself. At least he’s consistant. I’m all over the place, sometimes positive, sometimes negative – I even agree with DON on occasion, just not as blackly.

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BS – Don’t know what BDS is except bad typing (what’s new)?.

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DAP

October 18th, 2010
10:12 am
DCBrave are there any potential outfield bats not named Jordan Schafer anywhere in the Braves’ minor league system that might be considered close and/or ready?

matt young, a speedy CF.

And WILLIE CABRERA 2012 in all probability

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That’s true, Richbrave. I just can’t see how one can blame JJ’s shoulder issues on McDowell because 1) he had shoulder issues in the Detroit organization and 2) he injured his shoulder pitching in a pickup game over the off-season (and therefore wasn’t following the Braves off-season/pre-season conditioning program, starting with bullpen sessions in Atlanta in February). Regarding Medlen, they actually skipped a couple of his starts due to off days in order to limit his innings prior to his injury, but he still got hurt.

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FRED:

Shouldn’t they shut JJ down and fix whatever recurring shoulder issues he has? I would unless they can’t really be fixed. In which case, I’m concerned for his long-term future in baseball.

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i hope wren is only trying to temper expectations when he says the braves need to “get creative” with the team in the offseason. to me that means getting subpar players and hoping for the best. like i said, i hope thats just talk.

there are free agents out there the braves could use that will improve the team, and wont cost an arm and a leg.

i also think this is an offseason to trade some prospects, if we can get the right players back.

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Y’all need to start looking at this whole situation from a slightly different angle.

We ended the season six games behind the Phillies. Most here think we need Home Field advantage (I don’t disagree), so we need to make up seven games in the standings to win the division next year. That is nothing but cold, hard, fact.

Now we lost games this year, not because we lacked pitching, but in spite of the pitching. So we need to add bats and defense to strengthen the team and to gain those seven games in the standings – IF everything else remains the same.

If you trade pitching, then you need to replace those wins, as well as improve the defense and the offense. In essence, now you have yet another area of the team that needs to be corrected to get to the wins you need, because in the Braves’ case, they have no one who can step in and replace Lowe’s performance.

Yeah, you MIGHT have a couple of extra bucks, but after having to fill yet another position that did NOT need filling to begin with, you’ve got a lot less to fix those problems than you thought you were getting to begin with.

You just never weaken your team in order to strengthen it. Makes absolutely no sense to do so. This winter will be more than challenging enough for Wren and the front office just filling the holes we already have without going and making more holes that need filling.

Let the man trade Kawakami and fill the holes through other means. Lowe leaving will only create yet more problems than the Braves already face. They have a big enough job to do as it is.

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I hope I’m wrong, but Nate McLouth has Jeff Francoeur written all over him. That the Braves are on the hook to the guy this season is unforntuante.

The Chipper, Kawakami, McLouth contracts are a big drag on the teams fortunes in 2011.

Everyone’s hoping against hope that A) Chipper’s banged up 39-year-old body will somehow, some way, rejuvenate itself and Chipper will produce, well, not like he did prior 2004 (when his injury jinx began), but perhaps on the order of his batting title year or B) that Chipper doesn’t blow another knee (or something else) halfway through the season. Confidence level: low to very low.

Kawakami… I think the Kawakami defenders have pretty much taken to the tall grass. In fairness to Kawakami, he was overbilled as a version of Greg Maddux. Not. Good luck if Wren unloads him without having to eat a substantial portion of his contract. Still, even if Wren can dump the K-man, that’s dollars substracted from payroll.

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bringing him up and not using him hurt him mentally!

So what is it, brain bruise?

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.Don – I also believe you admitted that most of the problems were not due to Bobby, but were due to payroll constraints.
Your coments concerning injuries to pitchers being his (and McDowwel’s) fault, and your assessment of Escobar are both PURE UNADULTRATED CRAP. As always, you continue to be a Maroon, and now you are even contridicting yourself.

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DAP

I think Wrens comments are meant to be elusive. All semantics. I don’t think he’ll go out and bid for Werth or Crawford, but I think he’ll be looking at some upgrades through trades and lesser free agents.

There will be more bargains out there once the FA list increases after the non-tender deadline.

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Phillies won 97 this year, and didn’t get untracked until late August/September.

If they have a healthy year next year, their only concern would be replacing Werth’s power.

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Lew… I’d generally agree with 10:35 assessment, though I’d add this: I’d like to see Wren add younger offensive talent rather than trying to lock down an older power bat. I’ve got to believe that there are solid prospcts at the major league ready stage that teams might part with for a reasonable price. The Braves have enough money locked up in older players who are questionable in terms of A) health and/or B) ability to produce.

And there’s that little thing about positioning the Braves beyond 2011. The team has a good core of younger pitchers (on the staff and coming up). The infield looks pretty good, except for Chipper and, perhaps, Gonzalez (no small exceptions, but…).

Heyward is set and should make big strides next season. Why not look for a young stud to put in the outfield along side Heyward?

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Richbrave, JJ is taking a break during the off-season to fix his knee. I don’t know enough about shoulder injuries or the state of JJ’s shoulder to render an opinion about the need for shoulder surgery. Also, I’m sure the Braves have told him to stay away from the winter pick-up games.

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