4:20 pm September 29, 2010, by David O'Brien
October 1st, 201010:11 am
Yeah I have no problem with that whole outside strike thing…baseball is a game about taking what they are giving you…if they are calling that pitch a strike, good on you if you can hit that same spot 70 times in a game. Especially when the batter, and back then, the baseball, is juiced.
October 1st, 201010:12 am
Will Bobby Cox manage these three games in a reasonable manner and at least give the Braves a good chance to win one or more of these games – or will he continue to do some things that are unexplainable and continue to cause unnecessary losses – Such as playing both Ankiel and McLouth at the same time in the outfield and keep Hinske and Diaz both on the bench, as well as Melky – or putting Farnsworth into a game determining situation etc.
If not for some absurd actions by Cox, the Braves could now be leading the Division instead of being completly out of the Division race and fighting for a wild card spot. Examples: (1) And this one is huge – Playing both McLouth and Melky in the outfield at the same time on and on for the first 1/4 of the season with them both having terrible, terrible production – with Infante (yes All Star Infante) and Hinske both on the bench – without being given a chance; (2) Keeping Chipper in the 3rd spot in the batting order on and on and on before he started producing when he was hitting in the .220s, .230s, .240s and driving in very few runs (not to say he should not have been in the lineup – but not in 3rd in the batting order); (3) Continueing to play Glaus on and on and on after he stopped hitting and was not producing; (4) Using some relif pitchers in many game determing situations -who obviously were not dependable – Chavez, Farnsworth etc.; (5) Using Kawakmi on and on when he was not producing; (6) Failure to make adjustments in his batting order based on who was hot and who was not; (7) Keeping McDowell on as Pitching Coach for this season when the Braves have had so many pitcher injuries since the has been here – 2-3 starters on the DL each season (one season, didn’t we have 4 out of the 5) – result, now 2 of our potential future stars for years to come are questionale (Medlin out for all of next season and may never be back effectively, and who knows what is wrong with JJ – and of course both of these out or not producing part of this season when we need them so badly; (8) Even recently, playing both Ankiel and McLouth in the outfield at the same time with Hinske and Diaz both on the bench, as well as Melky: (9) Failure to manage Escobar properly resulting in his not being productive and our losing him (a potintial all star shortstop for years to come) and bein left with a hole at shortstop for who knows how many years.
ETC. And this doesn’t even get into in game strategy moves.
Of course, some of these contentions could be challenged; but it is not possible to justify all of them.
October 1st, 201010:20 am
beekay would you give Werth say 3 years 30 mill? Would someone offer more?
I see our rotation as Hanson,Huddy,Lowe,JJ, and either Minor or Beachy as the 5th.
then we best hope that nobody gets hurt. The Braves used every ounce of their ML-ready pitching depth this season, and there does not appear to be AAA depth of the quality of Minor or Beachy in the system for next year. Right now, anyway. That either takes a guy such as Beachy off the trade table, the Braves have to plan to pick up some journeymen in the offseason and stash them with minor league deals, or they have to pick up some fifth starter who is actually going to pitch like a fifth starter (in which case, he’ll be pilloried by blogites for being the .500 pitcher that most fifth starters are, LOL).
I know Kawakami doesn’t look like much, but the team might have to pick up somebody just like him, if he’s traded.
October 1st, 201010:21 am
Your Douche juice is not welcome today!!
Wow, a closing weekend special – not just one well worn-out complaint, but a compendium of greatest hits….
October 1st, 201010:22 am
don-What will you do when your raison d’etre retires in a few weeks? Have you lined up appropriate Therapy and medication to see you through the horrendous depression that is likely to set in? Have you alerted the Suicide Hotline in your area? Dr. Phil on speed dial?
October 1st, 201010:23 am
Comfort foods helps, too.
October 1st, 201010:25 am
Don, you forgot # 10. Being in position to make playoffs, and winning 90 games again this year, with a roster that has many holes in it. I too often question his strategy, but the results do speak for themselves. He gets an awful lot of blame, but credit should be given when earned. And winning 90 games with this team is a tremendous accomplishment.
How about those 25 last at-bat wins? Doesn’t he get any credit for any of those? How about the confidence he shows players. Sometimes it backfires. Other times (Lowe, Glaus in May/June) it pays off.
Bobby Cox is an Atlanta icon. The Atlanta Braves have been in the postseason 16 times. Bobby has managed 14 of those. He managed the second-best NL team since WWII (the 1990’s Braves, only behind the 70’s Big Red Machine). At least 4 players are headed to Cooperstown under his tutleage. The guy is a winner. And any man that loves and respects the game of baseball so much that he wears spikes at age 69 deserves our respect.
We will miss you Bobby. Godspeed.
October 1st, 201010:26 am
Oh give it a rest, Dot Dummy.
October 1st, 201010:28 am
Werth is on the shopping lists for clubs like the Red Sox already… and with Boras as his agent, you can count him out of the Braves plans.
Does anyone know if the Braves still refuse no-trade clauses in their contracts? I know that was a big sticking point back in the JS days. Just curious.
The more I read about the FA market and the amount of money the Braves are going to have to spend, the more I believe the only substantial new pickups this offseason are going to be via trade. Who are untouchable prospects in the Braves’ system? Probably just Teheran.
Rob from SC
October 1st, 201010:30 am
It might be unlikely, but I would not rule out Teheran as our 5th starter. Especially if we trade Mike Minor for a bat
.Don…seriously dude…relax. Everything is going to be fine.
I think Freeman is also untouchable
(11) If we only had the manager in St. Louis the great evaluator of talent and potential production we could have clinched weeks ago!!
Wait……He didn’t get his team in??
October 1st, 201010:32 am
Especially if we trade Mike Minor for a bat
I put the odds of trading the first-round pick from a year ago, who made it all the way to the bigs in his first year of professional ball, who picked up velo on his heater and had an absurd K/BB ratio in the minors, as essentially zero.
October 1st, 201010:34 am
DOB- Correct me if I am wrong, but if the Braves get one win, just one, they will be in line for the minimum of a 163rd game to go to the playoffs at home. And if that were the case, it would be with Huddie ready to start that one at home ! — Philly Phanatic’s …
Correct about first part, needing only one win minimum to make it to a 163rd game. But unless Cox changes his pitching plans, Hudson is scheduled to pitch Sunday. He could easily change that, however, and pitch Minor on Sunday and have Hudson pitch Monday. But why would Braves do that if they could close it out Sunday with a Hudson-pitched win?
Werth is 31 and had 150 k’s and under 100 rbi’s…I wouldn’t give him more than a 3 yr 36 mill deal. I like his power and decent speed but would be scared to add an extra year or extra money to that…look at Jason Bay, he had better #’s got a huge deal and was terrible
October 1st, 201010:35 am
rob from sc I think Freeman is also untouchable
if he is, he had better turn out to be a good one. there are lots of great 1st baseman to choose from out there.
beekay: then I’m fairly certain you wouldn’t have to worry about Werth, because three years and $36 mill wouldn’t put you in the finalists of teams pursuing him.
October 1st, 201010:37 am
beekay, i dont disagree with you, but 3 years $30mil was raul ibanez’s last contract. i think werth is gonna better that one.
October 1st, 201010:38 am
DOB, thinking as a fan and not as a writer (if you can do that), what moves do you want the Braves to make this offseason? Big bat? Leadoff guy?
October 1st, 201010:42 am
Good morning all. THANK YOU CUBBIES! Big crowds at the Ted this weekend, hope they are LOUD like the Philly fans were last weekend.
Talking of next year I wonder if Bobby’s departure is going to have any impact on signings?
How often do we hear a player saw “I wanted to come to Atlanta because of Bobby Cox” (Wagner for instance) might people think twice with a new manager and a new set up and perhaps decide they would rather not move to Hotlanta, or not cut club friendly deals because of the bedding in process for a new boss.
DOB or anyone else
What is Werth worth(no pun intended)… 4 yrs 50 mill??? Even the Yanks wouldn’t offer a 5 year deal would they?
October 1st, 201010:43 am
.Don-great insight into the Braves. Can you please come on here every day and say the same thing. Us bloggers look forward to seeing you post the same thing every day. You have taught us so much about baseball and for that I can’t thank you enough. Your optimism is a shining example of how we should live our lives
October 1st, 201010:45 am
I read somewhere that DOB is not a Braves fan. Could it be as a writer he feels he can’t be?
3 years at $36 mil for Werth? Hah!
You know what Boras’ opening line will be at every meeting? “I’d like you to meet Jayson Werth. He’s better than Jason Bay. We can start there. Show them your World Series ring[s?] Jason”
October 1st, 201010:46 am
beekay, i think he could probably get 5 years if he wanted, but 4 years $50 mil with a 5th year option is probably alot closer.
part of it is who he is as a player, and part of it is the supply of good outfielders. its slim.
October 1st, 201010:49 am
If you were Wren would you give him 4 and 50 ?
Ease™ in Sandy Springs
Oh God, he managed to get a seasons worth of posts into one…great copy/paste job. Unfortunately I must ban myself for the day since I actually read the ENTIRE thing…again
October 1st, 201010:54 am
I hereby pledge I will not second guess any Bobby Cox decision or the heart of any Brave for the rest of the season. This is the time for supporting the team…100%.
On DOB, He covered the team 67% of the season, talked to the players every day. I don’t see how he could not be rooting for them.
October 1st, 201010:55 am
if the braves can’t win at least one game at home in front of sold out crowds during bobby cox fest then they don’t deserve to go to the playoffs anyway.
It will take at least 60mil-4yrs to get Werth. I think the Braves management is smarter than that.
October 1st, 201010:56 am
beekay If you were Wren would you give him 4 and 50 ?
eesh. probably, if the money was there. if i were a GM, one thing id like to do that player’s, their agent, and the union doesnt like is front load contracts. if i could pay werth more now, and less later when he is older, that would be great. i guess you can kinda do that with a signing bonus.
.Don – What will you do next year?????
BTW, KNOWLEDGEBLE baseball experts and fans alike almost universally believe this is one of Bobby’s BEST jobs of his career this year. No one could have expected us to be in the playoffs with all the injuries/adversity we have faced. AS ALWAYS, YOU ARE A MAROON!
October 1st, 201010:58 am
Ease, has been hosed down with the juice of the douchenator!!!!
October 1st, 201011:00 am
DAP-Whether or not Freeman will be great, the Braves aren’t trading him and picking up another first base option when they need outfield help.
October 1st, 201011:02 am
Anders-What do Mets’ fans think of the Bay signing now? A tad disappointed but hopeful for the future?
October 1st, 201011:03 am
Enter your comments here
October 1st, 201011:05 am
lew Whether or not Freeman will be great, the Braves aren’t trading him and picking up another first base option when they need outfield help.
i know it. its just gonna kill me if freddie pulls a scott thorman, and there were guys like konerko, dunn, fielder, pena, huff, berkman, out there we could of had.
it will be nice to have a homegrown, long term 1st baseman, though.
I think Bobby should move Heyward to third the rest of the season in order to give him a few ABs there before the postseason. He has to be batting 3rd in this current lineup… my lineup would be
McClouth and Ankiel need to be role players. Late inning replacements for D and speed, nothing more.
hope if we make playoffs Freeman will be on roster if only for his defenceive abilitys. Do you think he will be?
October 1st, 201011:06 am
I think the Braves should go cheapo in the bullpen next year,too many great young arms to spend a lot of money there. Marek is still available,use Martinez in the long relief role and pray that someone wants KK or he decides to go home.
October 1st, 201011:07 am
You know, if the Braves win and the Pads lose, we lock up the WC with our 91st win. 91. That is a good number. It would be fitting to send Bobby back to the playoffs with 91. GO BRAVES!!!!!
October 1st, 201011:08 am
Crazy – LOL
October 1st, 201011:10 am
What great 1B are out there.
Pujols, Howard, Cabrera, Votto,
Don’t want to trade for Fielder because he would be a rental. I would rather have Freeman than LaRoche.
October 1st, 201011:11 am
Haven’t been on here much lately… what is the concensus on the Braves interest or chances of making a run at Werth? Man he would look good in LF and provides that right handed stick we have to have with Heyward, McCann and Freeman.
S Speedy CF ???
October 1st, 201011:13 am
Check out the Bobby Cox timeline the AJC put together: http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/bobby-cox-an-enduring-648365.html
The Braves wouldn’t be able to afford any of the 1B FA’s anyways. The team has to shop at WalMart, occasionally gets to splurge and go to Target, but isn’t even allowed to step foot in Macy’s anymore. Just a sign of the times.
P-Town Brave ©
October 1st, 201011:14 am
Correct me if i am wrong, but 1 Braves win and 1 Padres loss seals it…
So that combination before Sunday and the Braves can push Huddy back to Game 1 of the playoffs…
Tonight the goal: JUST WIN BABY!
October 1st, 201011:15 am
rob from sc What great 1B are out there.
i just listed them in my previous post.
I would rather have Freeman than LaRoche.
braves felt exactly the same way about thorman.
October 1st, 201011:17 am
Freeman and Thorman don’t belong in the same sentence.
October 1st, 201011:19 am
If this has been discussed, I apologize. Just wondering if anyone knew the answer…
If Braves win one this weekend and Padres Sweep, that creates a three-way tie. How is that settled? Thanks.
October 1st, 201011:20 am
I’m rooting for the Braves this make the Wild Card. They’ve been tough competitors all year and I think they would have a good shot at beating San Francisco. I’m a Phillies fan who lives in Philadelphia, it’s hard for me to want the Braves to make the playoffs but I like the way they compete.
Here’s the latest in the series of first-person Cox tributes, this from Chipper Jones: http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/10/01/first-person-cox-tribute-chipper-jones/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
If you haven’t see the others, there are links to each below the Chipper tribute. Believe me, if you’re a Braves fan, you’ll want to read them.
October 1st, 201011:21 am
Padres will play the Giants in SD for West winner. Loser comes to Atlanta the next day to play WC.
Giants-Braves first round.
Scott Thorman…?! REALLY?!
When was Thorman EVER in the Top 3 in Braves prospects?!
Thanks Frankie Wren.
October 1st, 201011:22 am
If Braves signed Werth (probably take 4 years, $50M), the same ones calling for it would be the first ones bitching and moaning when he has a slump, and calling out Wren for “obviously overpaying” him. You’ve got to be realistic, unless you have Yankee money. Even if we could squeeze out the money, would that be the most prudent way to spend it? I agree that we OBVIOUSLY need to upgrade in OF, especially left field, but it will be a business decision, not a “wish list”.
Lincecum, Cain, and Sanchez going against: Lowe, Huddy, and Hanson- LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
October 1st, 201011:24 am
No problem CD. Can’t wait to see Freeman next year. He will struggle but as soon as he matures there is power potential. Easily see this guy being a 25 HR and a ton of doubles.
raleighbravefan: Werth is going to want Jason Bay money- $15-17 per year, if not more. Especially if he plays well in the playoffs.
October 1st, 201011:25 am
were guys like konerko, dunn, fielder, pena, huff, berkman, out there we could of had.
Berkman is over the hill
Pena can barely hit .240
Dunn can’t field
Fielder is a rental
Konerko is old even though he is RH and has power
Huff is going to make a lot of $
I would rather have Freeman
And Thorman WAS NEVER seen as a top prospect in baseball…Freeman won the AAA MVP for a newcomer
October 1st, 201011:26 am
If we clinch tonight, we can skip Hanson on Saturday and go
Not to be redundant but I really think Zito throws against us. He has totally shut us down the last 2 years and we beat Sanchez. If the Giants advance they might move Sanchez ahead of Zito.
October 1st, 201011:27 am
Who is better on the road this year, Tommy or Lowe?
October 1st, 201011:29 am
I would expect the Braves to try and land the best outfielder, whether corner or cf, available through a trade. I don’t expect the Braves to try and sign Werth. He is way to expensive for them. Most likely the Braves will go into 2011 with many of the players they have now, because there appears to be nothing in the minor league pipeline that would bring immediate offensive help. If the Braves get solid pitching, they will again be at least competitive but hopefully they will focus on acquiring offensive help sooner than later. However, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves experiment with Freeman in LF, B Mac @ 1B and Ross @ C during ST.
DAP – And what would be your tune if FF turns out to be the next Tex, or even the next McGriff or D. Lee in his prime, but the braves traded him away and signed any of the over-the-hill, free-agent-in waiting, simi-pretenders (LaRoach) that you proposed. AND, do you realize how affordable FF will be for years to come? He doesn’t have to be an all-star to be well worth keeping.
October 1st, 201011:31 am
Fightin’ – The more Werth wants, the stronger the argument not to sign him.
October 1st, 201011:34 am
DOB, but what do you suppose would happen if the Braves clinched tonight? Do you think Bobby would rest a lot of the regulars?
October 1st, 201011:37 am
Quick second guessing question. I actually am a D Lee supporter although a little disappointed, but he was one of the few hitting in September. I like what he has brought to this team defensively. I also like we didn’t give up much so it was a good move. But…. Being in the market for a firstbaseman, would Berkman have been a better fit? Like Lee he is past his prime but he can still hit. Not sure what the Yankees gave up? Wouldn’t even mind seeing Berkman in LF for a couple of games last month.
No way do the Braves trade Freeman. That would be crazy I expect him to struggle at times next year but he is a way better option than some that are on the downslide of their careers. Would like to see the Braves resign Hinske is back up 1B/LF and PH. That would help. Bullpen should be set next year as well. It will be a very young bullpen but should be very good and cheap. Venters, Kimbrell, Moylan,O’F, and Dunn. Only two spots are open and one needs to be a long reliever.
DOB…timeline was great. Wish it had even more detail….Go Braves….win it with 91!!!!!!
The Braves used every ounce of their ML-ready pitching depth this season, and there does not appear to be AAA depth of the quality of Minor or Beachy in the system for next year.
Which is why Randall Delgado is the most realistic trade chip the Braves have. I think it’s laughable when people say Jurrjens should be traded for a bat. I suppose that would mean it’s a slam dunk that Kawakami is kept. They could go with Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, Beachy/Minor/Kawakami for last two spots and keep all of their prospects intact. Just not sure that’s the best route to go if the Braves want to get back to the promise land….
October 1st, 201011:38 am
The only concern is that if the Giants win tonight they go into play off/ limp mode. Which is what Philly is doing. I really want the Giants inspired to kick Padres butt!
October 1st, 201011:39 am
Good point on Hinske next year. Like to see him back as well being a backup. He has been a great addition to this team.
October 1st, 201011:41 am
Efrim- So agree on JJ. I can’t believe some of the stuff related to him on this board. Have to be concerned about his injury and how that responds next year. If healthy, this guy is terrific. As challenged as our offense is right now, if JJ was healthy I think we handle the Giants.
October 1st, 201011:44 am
I understand the concern w/ Werth…
Haven’t we done this OVER and OVER and OVER again where we go out and get stop gaps and retreads and etc??
We need to go out and get the impact bat for the middle and not only does he fit that bill, but he also would be a + defender in LF w/ a +++ arm.
I’m not saying to pay an ungodly amount for him (which could happen if Boston gets involved) but he’s probably the #2 chip on the table as far as OF’s go behind Crawford.
It is what it is guys…unless we trade Jurrjens or Minor which could very well happen, we aren’t just scraping a 30/100 guy out of the barrel…
As I said to a friend of mine, do we really want to go after another Troy Glaus or Raul Mondesi?
I really hope those days are over…
Nova Scotia Steve
October 1st, 201011:48 am
I’ll read the Cox tributes when the season is over. They’ll probably mean more to me then – when I can reflect.
Focused on the play-offs baby! Who knows – maybe Cox and the Braves are around for a few more weeks.
Efrim, agreed. Only a monster offensive upgrade, I mean of tsunami proportions, would offset the difference in run differential if the ML pitching is degradated. What’s the sense of trading Jurrjens for a bat, if the 4/5 starters are going to eat up the extra runs created with extra runs given up?
The depth of quality in the starters is about the only thing that would allow the Braves to go for some .850 bat (I’m starting to think that .900 bats will either be unavailable or unaffordable, drat it, LOL) and still consider that move as impact. But starting two rookies at the back end has too big a probability of canceling out such a bat.
October 1st, 201011:49 am
Efrim is right,our best hope is a trade using a prospect like Delgado with maybe matched with Omar Infante for a good outfielder. Infante is definitely in a sell high mode.
October 1st, 201011:54 am
P-Town, I agree, but I don’t think the Braves can afford to go out and get an A-List guy, at least not via free agency. As much as I hate the constant stream of has-beens that the team signs year after year, they are trying to get the most for the least. No dough, no show.
Maybe I should start a Random-like reoccurring statement, LOL:
Mike Minor will not be traded.
(Random, get your sorry self back over here. Don’t make me say it twice.)
OJ – We clinch tonight and you’ll see our pitchers get some rest and probably Kawakami and Minor pitching Saturday and Sunday.
It would be greatly beneficial to give guys like Lee, Heyward, McCann, Gonzalez and Infante. Not to mention the BP.
Maybe Jurrjens could get a few innings in less intense games as well – hugely beneficial as well. We’d also be able to sit back and enjoy the ceremony tomorrow for Bobby Cox without nervousness or tensity.
October 1st, 201011:55 am
2 up three to go.. What a difference a year makes. Is Glaus even going to make the pay-off roster? He’s a big reason we won the wild card(almost).
Go Braves.. Thanks BOBBY
October 1st, 201011:56 am
Trade Infante that is crazy what do you do when Chipper gets hurt.
The question is…who starts Game 1??? I’d like to see Lowe, Hanson, Hudson…
October 1st, 201011:57 am
Dead horses fear .Don.
October 1st, 201011:58 am
Coach- Pretty sure you have seen the last of Glaus. They will probably keep FF behind Lee. Glaus may get a start this weekend if they clinch but that might even be a little disrespectful. He gave them a good 6 weeks but it’s over.
October 1st, 201011:59 am
Sure glad now the Braves signed Lowe and not AJ Burnett.
Nova- You know Bobby and his loyalty. Huddy will probably go game 1 if he doesn’t have to pitch Sunday. Then maybe Tommy and D Lowe.
October 1st, 201012:02 pm
Unless the Braves are going to go after Crawford I would rather them stay clear of the FA market this year. Save there money and wait till some of the big salaries come off the books. In the mean time why not take a kid like Mycal Jones who is a SS at AA and give him a chance at LF. I would rather see the young kids up then broken down Vets trying to capture there youth and tieing up money that should go to there own young stars like Heyward, Freeman, Hanson.
I think they need to set up the rotation so that D Lowe goes twice. Pitching him 3rd in the playoffs would be a mistake… The Braves are paying him to be the big game guy, so I hope they give him the chance.
Not sure how that works out if they don’t clinch until Sunday or a playoff game. Anyone?
Teheran should be ready and from all accounts, he is the next coming of Pedro…
Minor can and will get better and be a stud…
Beachy has a shot to be decent, not great, but decent…
We can afford to deal JJ for a bat and try to sell high even after an awful year from him….plus, it gets out from under another Boras guy if need be. (Even though Werth is now one as well)
Like I said before, whether through trade or FA signing, we need to stop this whole diamond in the rough/reclamation project/youth in a bottle stuff with Glaus type players…
October 1st, 201012:03 pm
NSS, Frankie Wren – Pitching Hudson in game one also makes him available for game four should it be an elimination game.
Plug in Wes Helms, LOL, or whatever that guy’s name is on next year’s squad. Gonna need a guy like that, RH pop, can play some 1B, maybe some 3B.
T for Texas
October 1st, 201012:05 pm
The only concern is that if the Giants win tonight they go into play off/ limp mode. Which is what Philly is doing.
I think it would be a terrible mistake to think the Phillies are coming in here and not thinking about winning. Respect for the game dictates that they come in and be competitive, as these games bear on the overall playoff picture. Also they are playing a potential NLCS opponent. If they can knock the Braves out of the playoffs they will be more than happy to do so. The only thing they will not do is tax their big three starters to do so.
San Fran still has to win a game to clinch. If they do so, they will take the same approach as Philly in that series–rest the starting pitching, but play to win. That is the integrity of the game.
The Cubs manager in San Diego yesterday managed that game lie it was an elimination game for Chicago, no moves and no players were spared. In these games in which the whole baseball world are watching the results expect teams to present themselves accordingly.
To think the Braves are getting a pass this weekend is asking for an ear-boxing.
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