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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,560 comments Add your comment
Ease® in Woodstock
August 31st, 2010
6:21 pm
Is there medication for a Fluctuating BABIP?
I believe that Nova Scotia Steve is the go to guy on that one…
Nick
August 31st, 2010
6:22 pm
Go look up career BAPIP leaders and you will find pitchers who had long careers that have career BAPIP’s of under 280 (Jim Palmer .255, Catfish Hunter .251, Charlie Hoguh .258) so apparently it IS sustainable!
McFann ♥ ;Ô; ♥ ;Ô; ♥
August 31st, 2010
6:22 pm
Thanks for the explanation of WAR, guys…I think I get it now…but I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it.
Bat, Sopheeee, Wayne—
I didn’t mean to come off as calling BMac fat.
Sure, he’s not skinny, but he sure as heck ain’t fat!
Oh, and Bat, I do believe your suspicions were correct—Christopher Chance is PL. He accused me of saying last year that BMac should bat 8th.
David O'Brien
August 31st, 2010
6:26 pm
Braint: Hilarious comment at 6:07 p.m.
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
6:26 pm
How many skinny men do you know that take 90 seconds to round the bases after a homerun? None, that’s how many.
David O'Brien
August 31st, 2010
6:26 pm
Boricua, the call-ups were told today because Gwinnett was traveling today and they didn’t want the players to make that trip. So no, they didn’t travel with Gwinnett today.
LPad
August 31st, 2010
6:27 pm
The blog keeps eating my post about BABiP fluctuations. But for those arguing that BABiPs aren’t sustainable from one year to the next should keep in mind that a 30 point increase has little affect on the player’s other stats. A very good example of this is Bronson Arroyo who is 2nd this year in BABiP and finished sixth last year. He has experienced a 31 point decrease from 2009 to this year and it has had an insignificant affect on his performance.
Ease® in Woodstock
August 31st, 2010
6:27 pm
Hey, those were my suspicions…Well now I want them back…
glove51
August 31st, 2010
6:27 pm
GT Fan: when I looked at Hudson vs. Maddux about 3-4 weeks ago (I think that si abotu right), Hudson’s BABIP was then in the .220’s.
Maddux’s unreal achievements in his peak years were due to the combination of freakish K/BB ratios (which a pitcher can have a great deal of control over) and very low HR allowed rates (which a pitcher can have a pretty substantial amount of control over).
FEAR
August 31st, 2010
6:28 pm
well so much for that strasburg guy
AdirondackDave
August 31st, 2010
6:29 pm
FEAR — Yup, Phillies bullpen is a liability for sure. I was wondering if there were personality-clash issues behind the scenes that we haven’t heard about yet…
Chop Chop
August 31st, 2010
6:30 pm
The number I still can’t figure out is this:
.325
Pedro Martinez posted that BABiP in 1999.
He went 23-4 with a 2.07 ERA, striking out 313 in 213.1 IP.
I do believe that’s one o’ them statistical anomalies.
Snotboogie
August 31st, 2010
6:30 pm
So Freeman wins the IL player of the year. Not bad at all.
Ease® in Woodstock
August 31st, 2010
6:31 pm
How many skinny men do you know that take 90 seconds to round the bases after a homerun?
If the question was 2min and 36 sec, then the answer is one…
LPad
August 31st, 2010
6:31 pm
Chop Chop I guess Pedro was unlucky that year
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
August 31st, 2010
6:31 pm
At a meeting of the college faculty, an angel suddenly appears and tells Shaun, the head of the philosophy department, ” I will grant you whichever of three blessings you choose: Wisdom, Beauty _ or ten million dollars.”
Immediately Shaun chooses Wisdom.
There is a flash of lightning, and Shaun appears transformed, but he just sits there, staring down at the table.one of his colleagues whispers, ” say something.”
Shaun says, “I should have taken the money.”
FEAR
August 31st, 2010
6:31 pm
AdirondackDave – wouldn’t doubt it. whenever I catch one of their games they just seem like they are not playing as a team. I don’t know. It’s hard to explain. The Braves actually seem like a cohesive unit
David O'Brien
August 31st, 2010
6:32 pm
I would be interested in hearing from DOB –
Have you ever heard a player, coach, manager or GM mention WAR or BaBIP or IZAR or any such stat — Gil Garrido
Honestly, I’ve never heard a player, coach, manager or GM so much as mention any of those stats you listed. Not once. Not saying that they absolutely never use something like VORP behind closed doors in discussing players, but I’ve never heard one mention any of those stats publicly.
And as far as a player using them — be serious. I’d be shocked to ever hear a player use any of those stats. They never, ever talk in those terms. They talk about average, RBI, OBP, doubles, etc. Not WAR or BaBIP or whatever. Those just are not in the vernacular in the clubhouse. Maybe that’ll change at some point, but it sure hasn’t yet. (I also don’t hear them in any pressbox, either, for what that’s worth.)
Snotboogie
August 31st, 2010
6:32 pm
oh no – it was an ROY not player of the year.
Jeff R
August 31st, 2010
6:32 pm
Hudson and the Braves need to finish strong. I think that would up Hudson’s chances at a Cy Young.
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:32 pm
so apparently it IS sustainable!
Sigh.
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:33 pm
@Lew: Wayne-You’re just upset that they never came up with a stat that took “running into a wall for the team” into consideration.
Is it that obvious?
Boricua
August 31st, 2010
6:33 pm
Thanks DOB..Another ???..If Those player been in Uni tonight in the Dogout????
Patrick
August 31st, 2010
6:33 pm
DOB,
Erik Cordier….is he the guy that we got from Kansas City that was recovering from Tommy John surgery???
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
August 31st, 2010
6:34 pm
McFann_
Ease was the detective on the PL case. Well done Ease.
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:35 pm
Then it looks like the players, coaches, managers, GM’s and all other baseball people need to get with the times, huh!
Ease® in Woodstock
August 31st, 2010
6:35 pm
Not saying that they absolutely never use something like VORP behind closed doors
Is that like, when they hit the showers and start whipping each other with towels?
David O'Brien
August 31st, 2010
6:36 pm
Sounds to me like the Braves are listening seriously to trade offers for Troy Glaus. Not sure if anything will happen before Wed. (Sept. 1), the deadline for a team that wants to get him in so he’d be eligible for the postseason roster. If not, a team could trade for him later just to help in September.
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:36 pm
All callups will definitely be in the “dogout” tonight!
FEAR
August 31st, 2010
6:37 pm
dogout…..is that where yunel was?
Boricua
August 31st, 2010
6:38 pm
Huddy should got Five More Outing..question is with the Day off on sept 16..If Huddy will Pitch twice again The Phillis (sept 22 & Oct 2)..
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
6:38 pm
That’s good to hear, DOB. I get talked down to by the sabermetric guys sometimes because I’m only using BA, OBP, or HR instead of using stuff like TATER (Total Average Times Earned Runs) or WOMP (Weight Over Monday Plate appearances)
Ease® in Woodstock
August 31st, 2010
6:38 pm
There is a certain smelliness about him…fairly easy to detect. But thanks for my props, I called it didn’t I…(I jest
)
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:39 pm
The Troy Glaus situation has to be a difficult one for the Braves, as he was so important during our early season surge, and played dinged up for a long time until relief was obtained.
I can see where there might be a crowd of folks to consider for the post season if Glaus is kept. I still hope he stays.
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:39 pm
WAR is kind of a stupid stat, I’m coming to think more and more. First off, I don’t like UZR much at all. So there goes half of the stat.
Second off, they weight wOBA (a good stat) and UZR (an “eh” stat) equally. Come on.
It’s got the right idea–you can’t just look at a dude’s OBP and say he’s good. You’ve got to get a complete picture of his offensive game (wOBA) and, oh yeah, see if he’s good at defense or not. And I like how they argue that position matters. I think it does. Just don’t like how they get to the numbers. Not practical as a hard-and-fast stat like the classic BA/OBP/SLG.
VORP is fine if you want a measurement of offensive production. Everyone is on the same scale and it’s raw offense. If you don’t like it, fine, but it is what it is. And it’s not harmful to look at it. But it doesn’t take defense into account, so it’s certainly not the be-all and end all.
Personally, I just like OPS because it’s quick, easy, and most people understand it. wOBA and EqA are a lot better stats, but how many people have heard of them? Just easier to save everyone the trouble and use OPS. If I was in a front office, you can damn well bet I’m using every stat, scout and videotape available before I sink millions of dollars of someone else’s money into a player, though. To suggest that major league front offices don’t use the saber stats is silly. The only thing that differs among the different clubs is how much emphasis they place on them.
Of course, thinking players talk in VORP is silly, too. Why would that even be on your mind?
Ease® in Woodstock
August 31st, 2010
6:39 pm
I am sure McCann has a pretty high WOMP (hehehe!)
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
August 31st, 2010
6:40 pm
Those just are not in the vernacular in the clubhouse. Maybe that’ll change at some point, but it sure hasn’t yet. (I also don’t hear them in any pressbox, either, for what that’s worth.) _ DOB
Well they generate a lot of comments here, increasing you page hits, at least i think that is how this works. Therefore increasing your WAR.
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:41 pm
Erik Cordier….is he the guy that we got from Kansas City that was recovering from Tommy John surgery???
Yep. Got him from KC for Tony Pena, Jr.
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:41 pm
jeffrey
I see it as a major accomplishment that I understand OPS and WHIP!
Chop Chop
August 31st, 2010
6:41 pm
LPad,
I think it proves that it’s nice to be able to strike out 313 guys in 213.1 IP. You can make up for a lot of bad luck when you can do that.
Danga
August 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
We got something for Tony Pena, Jr.?
Wow.
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
“You think Pujols deserves the MVP because he leads in HR and RBIs?? He’s got the fewest lowest IBB/SAT ratio in the NL, STUPID!”
GT Fan
August 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
glove51, not that I disagree with you, but freakish K/BB ratios shouldn’t have any impact on BABiP. Low HR rate would, but would a handful fewer HRs really explain why Maddux had BABiPs 40-50 points below avg 3 of those 4 years?
I’m not trying to argue that BABiP is pointless, just Shaun’s assertion that it somehow makes what Huddy’s done less legitimate or less deserving of being recognized.
FEAR
August 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
I’d say keep Glaus. Probably not going to get much for him. Plus if he keeps hitting as well as he has in AAA then he is a good bat off the bench,
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
Pardon my redundancy
glove51
August 31st, 2010
6:42 pm
Chop Chop, re, Pedro in 1999. A: he allwoed very few balls in play, with 13.2 K’s/9, coupled with a very high K/BB ratio (8.46), and an INCREDIBLY low Hr allowe % of 0.4X. Basically the same formual that Maddux used in his best years amped up by a much higher K rate. pedro led eiteh rhis league or all of MLB in all those stats in 1999 (and led in each of those stats many times in his career), and allowed a slugging % of just .288.
Rob from SC
August 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
DOB
Any thoughts on Stephen Marek not being called up
bravito199
August 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
DOB are the Braves looking to acquire a middle infielder/utility guy before this deadline?
TennesseePaul
August 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
Snotboogie: Because, while I may spur long debates with Payne that could be misconstrued by others as hostile, the truth is they are not hostile from my perspective, I believe he knows this, and he has been on the blog for quite some time… dating back to his bachelor days… I remember those days. He’d roll in here in the wee hours blasted out of his mind VORPing all over the place. Then he got married, straightened his tie, park adjusted his demeanor and went on with business like a professional.
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
August 31st, 2010
6:44 pm
Ease_
He was disguised, no random quotation marks……… sneaky so n so.
noleeee
August 31st, 2010
6:44 pm
Hamilton is batting .359 with 31 HR….if he was in the NL, Pujols wouldn’t have a shot at the triple crown RC
not so sure I agree with that, he is hitting 330 OPS points lower away from Texas. His 886 away is good but wouldn’t threaten Pujols in the least.
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:44 pm
But then again, I ain’t paying players millions of bucks to hit or throw a baseball either!
glove51
August 31st, 2010
6:45 pm
GT: Freakish K/BB ratios help explain why a pricher can have a HIGHER BABIP but still produce a comparatively lower ERA, ceteris paribus.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
August 31st, 2010
6:45 pm
Monstrosity pitches for the Dodgers tonight; he ain’t bad. Dodgers play well at home too. +4!
noleeee
August 31st, 2010
6:46 pm
Then he got married, straightened his tie, park adjusted his demeanor and went on with business like a professional. TennPaul
except unlike PWH, he has never gotten the fact that real baseball is not only about stats. Has just never moved on to the next level of integration
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:46 pm
I get talked down to by the sabermetric guys sometimes because I’m only using BA, OBP, or HR
Those are the stat guys that really know nothing. They give themselves away with statements like:
“Scouting is stupid.”
“I only use OBP to measure my hitters!”
“Defense?”
I dunno. I simply think the most useful things sabermetrics have given baseball fans, as a whole is the concept that wins and losses for a pitcher are stupid, RBI are not something you want to use when evaluating players, Batting Average ain’t all it was once cracked up to be, OBP is, in fact, useful and that stolen bases are generally not useful over the long haul.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
August 31st, 2010
6:47 pm
Jerry Manuel does NOT know how to talk to the media
ummm uhhh he uhhh pitched well but ummmm his uhhhhh location was ummmmm kinda uhhhhh off.
Snotboogie
August 31st, 2010
6:48 pm
We got something for Tony Pena, Jr.?
Wow.
Well – at that time he was an injured A baller. The Braves organization and its patience won tihs deal for us I think.
FEAR
August 31st, 2010
6:48 pm
go LA!!!!
Wayne in Utah
August 31st, 2010
6:49 pm
Does Omar and Jerry have incriminating pictures of the Wilpon’s?
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:49 pm
except unlike PWH, he has never gotten the fact that real baseball is not only about stats. Has just never moved on to the next level of integration
I like Shaun, and think he contributes more to the blog in one post than 100 in-game posts do. He offers a well-reasoned argument that allows for intelligent debate about the game. That said, I think he looks at the game too analytically and is too black-and-white in his thinking. But that’s just me. I still read his posts and consider carefully what he says, and enjoy blogging with him.
PWH has really done a good job on his blog, too. You all should check it out (Capitol Avenue Club).
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
6:50 pm
RBI are not something you want to use when evaluating players
I think a lot of RBIs is a sign that you’re a good (and usually clutch) hitter. But not a lot of RBIs doesn’t mean the opposite. Maybe you’re a leadoff hitter. Maybe you’ve had bad luck. Maybe you play for the Royals.
If someone knocks in 150 runs, it’s a safe bet that he’s a good hitter. If someone gets 30 RBIs, though, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not a good hitter.
Vote for Prado
August 31st, 2010
6:51 pm
DOB, I love that song. Barenaked Ladies does an awesome version of that on their greatest hits album. Such a classic.
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
6:51 pm
I think it’s okay to judge using AVG, RBI, etc. if you take a step back and consider the whole picture.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
August 31st, 2010
6:51 pm
I hate my life
college work sucks
noleeee
August 31st, 2010
6:52 pm
.But for those arguing that BABiPs aren’t sustainable from one year to the next should keep in mind that a 30 point increase has little affect on the player’s other stats LPad
if it has such small correlation, then what good is it???
Danga
August 31st, 2010
6:53 pm
He offers a well-reasoned argument that allows for intelligent debate about the game.
Agreed. Dude always gives something to think about and does it without being rude. That is all I ask for out of a blogger.
hootdaddy-18
August 31st, 2010
6:53 pm
Hootdaddy in da house !!!!!!!
noleeee
August 31st, 2010
6:54 pm
(I also don’t hear them in any pressbox, either, for what that’s worth.) DOB
cause they are only important on baseball boards
Jeff R
August 31st, 2010
6:54 pm
Interesting about Glaus. Any rumors what the Braves’ could get for Glaus?
BravesFanChris25
August 31st, 2010
6:54 pm
Unless something of good quality is gotten for Glaus, I’d rather him stay. That’s how important Glaus has been for the Braves. Without him dare I say Braves wouldn’t be in 1st?
GT Fan
August 31st, 2010
6:54 pm
glove51, agreed, but he didn’t have high BABiPs when he was putting up those freakishly high K/BB numbers. And, at least the first two Cy Youngs he won, his K/BB ratio wasn’t that high – good, but not outstanding.
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:55 pm
I think a lot of RBIs is a sign that you’re a good (and usually clutch) hitter. But not a lot of RBIs doesn’t mean the opposite. Maybe you’re a leadoff hitter. Maybe you’ve had bad luck. Maybe you play for the Royals.
RBI are a record of what has happened. However, they offer almost no predictive value going forward. As they are so context-driven, you can’t assume that the hitter in question will produce the same number of RBI when placed in a different contex in a different season. There is too much going on that he can’t control.
Or, like you said, maybe he plays for the Royals. But all those reasons you listed (and others) matter. But what it really comes down to, in the end, is this: if you’re a GM, are you gonna be 10M on a player’s RBI total? I wouldn’t. Or I’m gonna end up with a pink slip pretty quickly.
hootdaddy-18
August 31st, 2010
6:55 pm
Hope Dan Kolb’s mom is here, she sure is a joy to hear from
GovClintonTyree
August 31st, 2010
6:55 pm
Anybody else think DOB’s explanation of the rules regarding playoff eligibility (in the org, not on the 25) is gonna take on a life of its own? Kinda like Skip Caray and the infield fly rule?
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
6:56 pm
Agreed. Dude always gives something to think about and does it without being rude. That is all I ask for out of a blogger.
I’d add not being a comple neanderthal during gametime, but I agree!
Me mad! Team Braves lose! Me throw beer at TV!
noleeee
August 31st, 2010
6:57 pm
I like Shaun, and think he contributes more to the blog in one post than 100 in-game posts do Steve
me too, he’s just not willing to admit that stats are not the be-all and end-all
Snotboogie
August 31st, 2010
6:57 pm
Tn Paul
I was just wondering why the name Payne. I’ll take that anyway, thanks.
shmoe
August 31st, 2010
6:59 pm
i was at the game last night!
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
August 31st, 2010
7:01 pm
Looks like another “packed” house tonight
McFann ♥ ;Ô; ♥ ;Ô; ♥
August 31st, 2010
7:01 pm
Bat M. Ease was the detective on the PL case. Well done Ease.
Ah, yes! You’re correct!
Sorry, Ease! Nice goin’…[ahem] in a matter of speaking.
TennesseePaul
August 31st, 2010
7:01 pm
the call-ups were told today because Gwinnett was traveling today and they didn’t want the players to make that trip
“I’ve had it with this nickel and dime stuff“
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
August 31st, 2010
7:02 pm
No Angel Pagan
Very Happy
Sopheeee
August 31st, 2010
7:02 pm
McFann – the hearts are a bit distracting.
GovClintonTyree
August 31st, 2010
7:03 pm
OMG, I’m being VORPed and BaBIPed to death. Enough. Let’s get back to dingers and ribbies, shall we? OBP and SLG are OK. There. I’ve drawn a fair and reasonable line.
Chop Chop
August 31st, 2010
7:04 pm
Andruw Jones has a .258 ISO this year.
He also has a .211 BABIP to go along with a .214 BA.
If you check out the relevant stats (and have a good idea about which players have posted at least 250 ABs), it would appear that Andruw Jones is doing the most damage with the least luck of any player in the majors.
Crazy stuff.
jeffrey d
August 31st, 2010
7:04 pm
I think they’re cool
TennesseePaul
August 31st, 2010
7:04 pm
he contributes more to the blog in one post than 100 in-game posts do
C’mon SteveOH, you’ve set the bar far too low.
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
7:04 pm
DOB, what’s the rule for guys like Minor who get optioned but don’t report to the minor league club? Are they allowed in the clubhouse/on the field for the one or two days where they’re technically not part of the club? Or do they have to stay away for the time they’re down?
Will the guys that get called up today get to hang out in the clubhouse or do they have to wait a day too?
McFann ♥ ;Ô; ♥ ;Ô; ♥
August 31st, 2010
7:05 pm
Sopheeee the hearts are a bit distracting.
jeffrey d I think they’re cool
Oh great…
TennesseePaul
August 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
Chop Chop: good stuff. good stuff.
Sopheeee
August 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
They’re fine but they catch your eye when you’re skimming through comments. I guess that’s a good thing though.
Sopheeee
August 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
jeffrey, you should add a few to your name.
TennesseePaul
August 31st, 2010
7:07 pm
Are they allowed in the clubhouse/on the field for the one or two days where they’re technically not part of the club? Or do they have to stay away for the time they’re down?
Basically, they get less access then Bonds’ or A-Rod’s groupies.
GovClintonTyree
August 31st, 2010
7:07 pm
This board is starting to look like a convention of Bill Shanks’ board with all the obscure stats.
GovClintonTyree
August 31st, 2010
7:08 pm
Sophia, isn’t it time to remove the extra eee’s. He started the allstar game.
Sopheeee
August 31st, 2010
7:08 pm
Wait, do they represent your ♥ for the turtles or Mac?
SoWeGa Fanatic
August 31st, 2010
7:08 pm
With all these great new stats, it kinda makes you wonder how the manager knew to put Ruth in the lineup everyday.
Steve from OH
August 31st, 2010
7:08 pm
I was under the impression that Shanks allows only unabashed praise of all things scouting and, in particular, those things related to Braves scouting.
I feel like I’d get banned for using OBP instead of RBI and grit quotient.
McFann ♥ ;Ô; ♥ ;Ô; ♥
August 31st, 2010
7:08 pm
Sopheeee they catch your eye when you’re skimming through comments. I guess that’s a good thing though.
Not necessarily.
They’re not gonna stay forever, though…sometime when I’m really upset I’ll prob’ly kill ‘em off. But let’s hope that’s not for a while.