12:37 pm July 29, 2010, by Carroll Rogers
July 29th, 20103:08 pm
Check Jesse Stone @ 2:48.
“the Astros were looking for a big haul in any Oswalt deal”
This is the problem with the process of rumor mongering trade sites. OF COURSE the Astros were looking for a big haul. Who isn’t? Find me the team that says “I’d like to get publicly humiliated on a trade…I mean, I want this deal to be so shameful that they’ll put the details of it on my tombstone.” Just once, I’d love for somebody to say that. The reality is that everyone postures up until the moment that they’re ready to get serious about a deal.
This applies to the Braves in that our position is particularly precarious. We have a Hall of Fame manager and (probably) a Hall of Fame player making their last run with the team. Everyone would love to give them a Hollywood Ending, and that means we’d like to field the strongest possible team going into the playoffs. Unfortunately (although I’m not sure that’s the right word here), we have some of the best minor pitching in the entire majors. That is the economic currency of professional baseball and teams want to take as much of it from us as possible. They very much want to encourage the idea that the Braves need to Win Now and worry about later after Bobby and Chipper are gone. Frank Wren isn’t retiring after this year nor is the rest of the team, meaning that we have to take a longer view of the situation. If we didn’t think Corey Hart was worth Jeff Francoeur last year, is he worth Mike Minor now? He is clearly a much better player at the moment than he had been in the past. Will that continue if he joins the Braves? Milwaukee’s GM would say yes of course because he gets Mike Minor that way. If we say no, will Milwaukee’s GM take our fifth or sixth best pitching prospect, someone like Beachy or DuVall, instead? That’s the determination that both parties have to make. And it’s a brutal one at this time of year.
A few years ago, the Red Sox couldn’t stand the sight of Manny any more and would have traded him for Nick, Coach and Mitchell. When he gets to LA, he totally turns the team around. Last year, like 15 posters here railed against the Adam LaRoche acquisition, saying it was just making a move to make a move. That’s one of the best deadline trades this team has ever made. This time of year is a fascinating social experiment for this reason. Everything is a calculated gamble.
Corey Hart has an injured wrist am I wrong???
July 29th, 20103:09 pm
BRAVO to the other Jeff. I have said that from DAY 1. he overpays and is a penny pincher. your 2 highest paid players are washed up old and done yet they take the gist of our money.
Chip Caray's Eyebrows
Before anyone on here slaps the Phils on the back for the trade too much, hopefully they realize that Amarao pretty much admitts with this move that trading Lee was stupid and the money stuff was BS because Oswalt makes more money and is a lesser pitcher. Save Brown, their farm system is pretty much shot now, and they have backed their self into a corner of having to sign Oswalt, an injury prone pitcher, long-term so that they don’t have another Lee fiasco. While it is a classic win-now move, it’s not like they really know what they are doing up there. You could almost say it was a desperate move. While they are hot now, as we Braves fans know, that won’t last forever, and their flaws (bullpen anyone?) will surface again.
OSWALT + $11M IS TRADED TO PHILLIES, Are you kidding me? What Braves is going to do now?
Does that mean the we can trade the contracts of Nate and KK AND get some money in return as well!?
July 29th, 20103:10 pm
The sky IS falling. How will we ever catch up to the Phillies?
I just think that the situation the Braves are in right now is kind of like what the Hawks were in the offseason. You had to do something, but all the realistic options weren’t going to be enough to do what needed to be done. I don’t envy Frank Wren right now. My hope is just that he doesn’t mortgage the future to get a mediocre bat. I’m still stinging from the fact we gave up Wainwright, Andrus, and Felix in similar situations. And you know Wren remembers that too. I think he’s just in an impossible situation created by the fact his ownership sucks.
they set a time to start up again?
look guys, just calm down. theres alot of time. two days left. Thats a good amount in deadline time. No bautista, too low of avg., to high asking price. No hart, its not worth it with his wrist. Nats will want too much for willingham. You guys should be paying more attn to the angels and d-backs. Agnels lost pineiro (SC) and need a pitcher. Thats funny, the braves need a hitter. Maybe abreu. D-Backs for C. Young. He is the perfect fit. Plays center, power, speed, decent defense. They will want a good amount. But shouldnt be everything. Could make it a package of prospects with Delgado or Hover leading the way? Maybe Diaz? Hopefully not medlin. Idk what do you guys think. Angels or D-backs make much more sense. They want pitching.
If the Braves acquire Jose Bautista he not only provides serious power from an outfield position but he also gives the Braves a possible replacement if Chipper retires given he can play 3B.
What does Willingham give you that Diaz doesn’t? There is no reason to give up prospects for him…
I dont see the Nats trading guys within the division besides who are we giving up for willingham?
McFann :Ô: :Ô:
July 29th, 20103:11 pm
Hahahah…it sure does!
July 29th, 20103:12 pm
Wooderson, Chipper is actually 4th on the team in Wins Above Replacement (WAR). Also, Prado and Heyward are playing well over their salaries. If you are looking at players’ performances relative to their contracts, you need to look at every player and every contract.
The Braves are done…The Phills are winning and they are not even healthy, yet. They will get Utley back in a few weeks, and now they have added Oswalt. The Braves will not make a move and for the 5th year in a row, they will be watching the playoffs from home. Book it. The offense is not good enough and the starting pitching outside of Huddy is inconsistent. The Braves should have buried Philly when they had the chance, because you can bet your house that Philly will bury the Braves.
July 29th, 20103:13 pm
Wren has already signed one rental player who is playing WAY above his head (Gonzalez) I would be suprised to see him do it twice and get Bautista
where is a solid list of current free agents?
That’s true timthebrave…Just look around the blog…We have a long way to go to catch the Philthies…
Has Derek Lowe won a game this year? By won a game this year I mean the offense didn’t completely carry him to a win that anyone but KK could have gotten? Actually KK would have been .500 with Lowe’s run support.
July 29th, 20103:14 pm
If we get Bautista we will overpay right now. He is playing way over his head
Mark, i think you’re getting to the crux of the matter… there isn’t an outfielder available we can get who will do anything close to balancing out what Philly just did in getting Oswalt.
The fix here has to come, not from getting free agent X, but from our current players doing their #$%@ing jobs. We shouldn’t have to go out and get another bat if Derek Lowe would just earn his $15M paycheck and pitch like a somewhat competent pitcher from time to time, or if Glaus would stop flying out every single at bat, or if someone in centerfield would stop playing like a AA player.
If that happens, we can still win the division without doing anything. If it doesn’t happen, we’ll be knocked out of first place before we play another home game.
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Astros will receive J.A. Happ, prospect outfielder Anthony Gose and prospect shortstop Jonathan Villar from the Phillies in exchange for Roy Oswalt and cash considerations.
Bummer that Singleton wasn’t in that trade. Amaro does admit his stupidity with this one, because he never should of traded Cliff Lee in the first place as NONE of those prospects are having even solid years. But the fact of the matter is that the Phillies will pay 10 million for the services of Roy Oswalt this year and next, and gave up a back of the rotation starter, toolsy outfielder with promise and a 19 year old SS with contact issues.
It’s a credit to the Phils system, to be quite honest with you. It’s as strong as any in baseball even excluding Domonic Brown. Similar to getting Lee from the Indians. They managed to keep Singleton, Jiwan James, Sebastian Valle, Jarred Cosart, and Trevor May. Deep system that wasn’t dented too bad from this deal.
Wooderson, the Braves have a very affordable option on A-Gon for next year…wouldn’t have done the deal without it according to FW
Fols, sorry. We need power, and you don’t have it.
July 29th, 20103:15 pm
Well, Shaun, as long as they don’t do it in Hawks-esque fashion. Still, getting to the playoffs and getting knocked out in the first round is better than not getting into the playoffs. It’s not like this is the NBA and we’d go into the lottery and have a chance at getting a top draft pick who will have a big, immediate impact if we miss the playoffs.
Great we can see who can hit a homerun first between Gonzo and Bautista…I have a feeling we’d be waiting a while. This isn’t Toronto.
from D.C. – sun trying to come out here.
bravofan mlb trade rumors has free agent list
any idea when they’ll get this thing going again
July 29th, 20103:16 pm
July 29th, 2010
Bautista is a one-hit wonder. He has history and it is mediocre at best. Every dog has its day and Jose is enjoying his “Kibbles and Bits” in 2010 and is not a future replacement for anyone on the Braves.
SoWeGa Fanatic – Fols, sorry. We need power, and you don’t have it.
I can’t argue with that…I knew someone would point out my lack of homeruns this season. Not my fault it’s slow-pitch you slap a single and just run to 3rd base! lol
July 29th, 20103:17 pm
Back when the Braves started losing talent because of payroll is when they became a cash strapped mediocre team. When Millwood got traded for Estrada because Maddox accepted arbitration and Glavine left for money the Braves were like every other small to mid market team. Extending Chipper and giving guys like Lowe 4 yr 60mill contracts wouldn’t have mattered in the Ted Turner era. We had the money. We don’t now so trades are trickier. Every team has big money veteran contracts that don’t make sense. Teams like the Phillies and Yankees just spend their way out of it. We can’t. The Braves look like a second place team right now. Struggling with backup players like Melky and aging veterans like Chipper and Glaus might be the way it is this year. I still want them to win but I don’t hate the guys if the skills aren’t there.
i cannot believe that the Phillies got away with that trade without including Singleton. Singleton is a stud and if I was the Astros I would not have included that much cash without him
Shaun, Chipper is hitting 50 points below his career average and has a fraction of the homers and RBI’s he usually has at this time… wins over replacement doesnt hold water
July 29th, 20103:19 pm
Goose, keep in mind the Braves are in 1st place, the Phils are in 2nd. Catch us 1st, then brag.
In this trade it appears that the Astros were not the haulers but instead were the haulees
I will reserve judgment for now because if a year or two down the road Happ becomes a quality 2 or 3 position starter and at least one of the other prospects pan out then it will be a good deal for both teams.
Lowe should have been traded.
Q will the old Joe Saunders show up tnite and beat the fillies ?
The Astros have to be one of the poorest run franchises in baseball. While they spend some money, they have no idea what to do with it.
NO BAUTISTA! OVerrated by the Jays. NO HART!! Hes got a bad wrist. Try to swing a major league bat with a hut wrist. NO WILLINGHAM! Nats want too much and he is not that big of an upgrade over Diaz. BRING IN C.YOUNG from ARI. Come on. Idk what they want for him, but they need some pitching. Thats for damn sure. Know they would take Resop and Dunn. Thats a good starting point. Throw in McClouth. Thats 3 guys that would make their team right now.
OMG!! The Mets won today…..here comes 3rd place!!!!!!!!
July 29th, 20103:20 pm
The unfortunate reality of baseball now is that you can make smart moves, draft well, develop talent, etc. just like the Braves have, and have it all taken away in one fell swoop by a team like the Phillies who just purchase everything they need because they’re too lazy to develop their own pitching. Same problem in the NBA.
This is why the NFL is by far the most popular sport in the country. Every team has a chance if they’re just smart and have a good strategy. It’s not decided by who has the most $$$.
Supposed to stop raining between 3:30 and 3:45 ET…according to the weather channel.
July 29th, 20103:21 pm
“When Millwood got traded for Estrada because Maddox accepted arbitration and Glavine left for money the Braves were like every other small to mid market team.”
Very good point, Travis – this is exactly how I remember the turning point
Check Jesse Stone @ 2:48.
Who care about him never seen his name before. You make good contributions to the blog just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn’t serious.
July 29th, 20103:22 pm
if we want a bat here are some names that are fa that we could get for dirt cheap i guarantee. Hank Blalock, Jermaine Dye, and Gary Sheffield. My preferences of this group would be Dye. What about an arm to fortify the bullpen John Smoltz, Pedro Martinez, and Mark Prior. My pick in a perfect world would be Smoltz and he would comeback and get another ring I know not likely but would be fun
July 29th, 20103:23 pm
Clearly Frank Wren isn’t about t mortgage the farm just so Bobby Cox can go out a winner. He also doesn’t seem very inventive so I’m not holding my breath that he’ll make a major move. The A Gon trade has not been impressive, at least not on the field. Braves still struggling against mediocre pitching.
Tarp is coming off. Sun is out. Looks like we’ll have baseball soon.
July 29th, 20103:24 pm
Sounds like the Phils fleeded the Astros to me
Tarp is coming off. Sun is out. Looks like we’ll have baseball soon. less than 20 seconds ago via TweetDeck
comeon we gotta pull this one out!!!!
oops, meant sounds like the Phils fleeced the Astros
Why aren’t the Mets selling?
July 29th, 20103:25 pm
Chris Young 2010 Stats.
98 games, 100 h, 57 r, 23 2b, 17 HR, 63 RBI, 37 BB, 86 K, 21 SB
.269 ba, .334 obp, .802 ops.
He is the bat we need.
now thats good news carroll…I have the braves radio network on and they are playing a very poorly cut replay of Nats braves game with Strausburg….can’t wait for the real game
I wouldn’t have a problem with Bautista. Even if he reverts back to what he’s done for most of his career, he’s not a bad player (career .336 OBP and .431 SLG). Somewhere between that and a .366 OBP and .585 SLG is not bad.
July 29th, 20103:26 pm
Cool, now the Braves hitters can grab the bats with all the runs in them.
civilized white trash
bravofan i cant tell if your joking or not bout the smoltzie dye comment i sure hope you are
Just wait until next week. After the Braves lose their 2nd consecutive series, today and the Phils win for the 7th time in a row, that will cut the lead to 2.5. Just wait, the Braves will get swept by the Reds. The Braves are done. You cant trot that offense out every day and expect to win. The Braves offense is just laughable. Melky? A cripple Glaus? Hinske? A powerless Chipper? You are going to win a division with that? If the Braves pitching staff gives up over 4 runs, they lose. Its over.
Rob From SC...Chipper's new BFF (3 Game Streak)
July 29th, 20103:27 pm
Wren is doing a great job… He is waiting until late Friday or early Saturday until making any potenital trades… The real fact of the matter is that there are no difference makers available… Regardless I would think that the only untouchables are Teheran and Freeman…Why should Wren give up Mike Minor for just a slight upgrade…The answer is he shouldn’t…
Another storm cell approaching. They’re just knocking the water off the tarp. They should know in the next 15-20 mins if cell will hit us.
(This is why i shouldn’t post so quickly. What can i say. I know y’all are squirming to know.)
July 29th, 20103:28 pm
i brought up chris young on this board a month ago and was laughed out of here
I think we should look for long term solutions not looking to rent a body for the three months…
FW should not, and I don’t think he will, give up valuable pieces in the minor leagues just to get a few hits for the remainder of 2010. It’s a difficult balance however we need a quality player, who will contribute for at least the next 2-3 years, who will compliment our team and the clubhouse and contribute to winning games in 2010. Three month studs may put up some numbers but they will not necessarily make for a good teammate or be a positive influence in the clubhouse. David Ross, Eric HInske, Prado, etc., make for a great clubhouse and team atmosphere, and that can win games as effectively as someone with talent and no team mindset.
July 29th, 20103:29 pm
the A Gon trade has not been a bad one. regardless, he’s not the reason we’re struggling offensively. i think the offensive problems start with Glaus and Chipper, and after that it’s just general inconsistency and a lack of clutch hitting. everytime i’m watching a Gamecast on ESPN.com, it just gets maddening – “Jones grounds out, Glaus flies out, Cabrera grounds out”. No one can hit all of a sudden.
the other problem is that while we’re known for our pitching, the production of our starting staff is not as solid as it needs to be. It’s above average, but this team was built to pitch better than “above average” in order to win. Past Hudson and Jurrjens, you have no idea what you’re gonna get. Medlen has been great, but he hardly ever pitches now. Hanson might pitch an 8 inning shut out, or he might get knocked out after 3 innings and handing his team an 8 run deficit. And Lowe is just a complete joke.
Thanks, Carroll, I’m glad you’re on our side.
I’m not that worried about Oswalt in Phillie. I am actually glad to see J.A. Happ out of the division, that guy looked like he’s gonna be a stud. Oswalt is on the latter end of his career, is an injury risk, and hasn’t exactly been dominant the last few years. Hopefully his fat contract next year prevents them from making any significant moves in the offseason as well.
July 29th, 20103:30 pm
I did and hence my clarification to you (from prev page).
July 29th, 20103:31 pm
Sorry guys but I just don’t see it. Win this game or not…
Overall individual numbers are simply not that good.
AVG: besides Prado… next on the list : Heyward, 273, about 50th in NL, 80th in MLB.
RBI: Glaus 18th, far behind NL leaders and no one in the team close to him.
HR: well, Gonzales with 17… none in ATL yet.
Despite all the hypes about starting pitching, it is not that impressive. Just check and compare the numbers by yourselves and you’ll see that besides Hudson…
I do acknowledge JJ numbers should be better though (he has been the most consistent pitcher for a couple years now).
Yes, Bullpen is good.
Philly starting to play up to the expectations, the division lead is likely to be soon memory.
San Fran playing and winning (with great pitching), Cinci, LA… Wild Card will not be given.
I see the potential for this team to crack under the pressure.
The last 2 months could actually be a collapse.
Hope i’m wrong. I’ve been here for 9 years and haven’t seen much so far (in terms of that very specific type of excitement that only sports can drive).
July 29th, 20103:32 pm
Oh well, the pub here in Sarajevo is too nice to leave now…looks like a few more beers and local mixes pour moi… just wish the game would start again soon otherwise I will be so wasted I will not be able to find my way home !
Ray Parker Jr.
July 29th, 20103:33 pm
If Philly gets Roy Oswalt then we are done. That will fire them up even more than they already are. While we look for rejects to sign as if that is going to help. Make sure they are around 35 years old or Bobby won’t be able to handle them. Gripes!
How could Phillies get trade like this one after another without keeping all their untouchable prospects?
Curious for those who could recall random trades over the years… has there ever been a trade between two teams who were in the middle of a series and in the middle of a rain delay? I doubt it. But it would be interesting to see happen. Say the Braves acquire Willingham right now… does he just cross the diamond during the rain delay or what?
July 29th, 20103:34 pm
ok its a ypo, u get it.
July 29th, 20103:35 pm
Goose, as laughable as the Braves are, they are ahead of the Phils and have been for a month or two, so yall must really suck, especially that bullpen – yuk.
Chris Young man. Im telling you guys. Need a center fielder. They got some braves guys already. They are definitely sellers. The only difference maker that is right for the braves. He strikes out a bit but the braves arent too bad about that. Need to call. Something needs to be done but its not time to panic yet. We are in 1st place guys.
July 29th, 2010
??????????????????????????????????? May want to check Sarajevo phone book for a Detox location.
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
Make sure they are around 35 years old or Bobby won’t be able to handle them. Gripes!
Damn near non stop.
July 29th, 20103:36 pm
Only a Bobby Cox led team would have fans sacred to death of a second place team. You would think we were not in first the way everyone freaks out but that only proves we really follow this team. We have all seen a Bobby team collapse (many times). When does football start?
This lineup might actually have a shot, because the one right now doesn’t with the Phillies getting stronger….
2B Martin Prado 319AVG 852OPS
CF Jason Heyward 273AVG 845OPS
3B Chipper Jones 255AVG 768OPS
RF Jose Bautista 256AVG 951OPS
C Brian McCann 271AVG 838OPS
1B Troy Glaus 249AVG 782OPS
LF Eric Hinske 281AVG 854OPS or Matt Diaz 250AVG 750OPS
SS Alex Gonzalez 261AVG 788OPS
Man thats a serious lineup. But to get Jose Bautista you probably have to trade a good pitcher like Kris Medlen.
Travis, I think you make a very good point. In those last years, JS stopped seeming like as much of a genius as he did before, and Wren’s fighting it too. The job is a lot harder when you aren’t in the top 5 of payroll.
That said, Wren did what he could to rebuild the pitching. His real problem is he ended up doing too much to fix the rotation, and locked us into a couple of unnecessary contracts. He handled the winter of 2008 a bit like a rookie GM. He let out too much info, then got ripped when deals fell through. Then he made a couple of moves in response to the moves that failed that have handcuffed the team financially. I honestly think both overpaying Lowe and extending Chipper were direct results of the way Smoltz left town. He wasn’t willing to overpay Smoltz, and we’d probably be better off if he had taken the same philosophy with Lowe and Chipper.
Anyone know why the Tigers have DFA’s Larish. I thought he was one of their better prospects and suddenly he is DFA’d after just 3 games with the ML team. Something’s not right.
July 29th, 20103:37 pm
Right, because individual numbers are so much more important than team number, like the number that tells you the Braves have the fifth best record in all of MLB….
July 29th, 20103:38 pm
Bautista is a BUM having a lucky year – just like Gonzalez. There aren’t any real impact moves to be had, which means the Braves are what they are and that’s probably a wildcard team. Hey just keep in mind that if they are the Wildcard team anything can happen in the playoff’s – I’m cool with that.
Also keep in mind that Philly’s minor league system is about as barren as it gets with no players anywhere close to being ready in the next couple of years. Long-term I like the Braves to re-assert their dominance.
I had already seen it on the previous page but, thanks.
Huh….Did radio announcer said Nats bring infield for Yunel Escobar?
July 29th, 20103:39 pm
they are aiming to restart this game at 3:50 p.m.
There have been trades in double-headers where a guy plays a game with each team.
“How could Phillies get trade like this one after another without keeping all their untouchable prospects?”
Remember those days when the Braves could afford the big trades and when free agents wanted to come to Atlanta to play baseball…?
July 29th, 20103:40 pm
Good lord. You guys can really suck the joy out of following an afternoon game. Think I’ll stop reading and focus on work…
Did no one think that the Phillies were gonna make a run at some point? Good grief, they are a really good team and weren’t going to continue to stink it up. There are still over two months left in the season, a whole lot of baseball left to be played yet.
TennesseePaul, I’m pretty sure the rules wouldn’t allow a player from one team to switch to the opponent during a rain delay. Maybe someone more familiar with the rules can answer, but I’m guessing the players on the roster that are eligible for that game have to be set when the lineups are turned in. Because of this, I would assume if the teams agreed on a trade during the game, the trade wouldn’t be finalized, announced and official until after the game.
Nick 'n Nash
Ray Parker Jr. – Shouldn’t you be working on a new Ghostbusters theme song!? I’m pretty sure there were 14 Bobby teams that didn’t fall apart, considering they all went to the post-season.
July 29th, 20103:41 pm
Grego.fr, you’re probably going to be accused of being too negative, and i wish you were wrong, but that’s exactly what i’m seeing. The problem is that this team was constructed to be a “great pitching, just enough offense to win” type team. The pitching hasn’t been great, and the offense is too streaky. If just one of those components doesn’t work the way it should, the team loses. The Phillies on the other hand have a great pitching, great offense model, so that if one or the other fails, they still have a chance to win. It wasn’t great pitching until they got Oswalt, but that just took them to another level.
I will disagree with you about the wild card though. I could see the Braves still winning the wild card. But i agree about the division race. It sounds weird to say since we have a 3.5 game lead, but there are just too many players incapable of doing their jobs consistently on this team for me to think we still have a realistic chance to win the NL East. And those players seem to be the ones with the most salary, so we can’t just replace them.
My hope is that we can slip in on the wild card and get some of that May/June magic back. And the future is bright for this team, assuming they don’t make any more idiotic moves like signing a declining pitcher to a $15M/year contract for 3 years (Lowe).
Huh….Did radio announcer said Nats bring infield for Yunel Escobar?
They are replaying the Strasburg game from earlier in the season
Let’s slow down a bit
the Phillies have been hot BUT look at it closely
They are playing at home against Colorado (who has lost 10 of 13) and the D-Backs (enough said) aND even in those games, every game is a high-wire act, they are still having to try and outscore people and hold on once their bullpen takes over
They have done nothing to strengthen the pen (unless Oswalt pitches 9 every time) they will eventually have to leave their little band-box again and play REAL teams
In august they have a 10 day west-coast swing while the Braves are home pretty much all month
Braves will make a trade (Chris Young would be great) and they’ll still win this division by 5+ games
FlintRiverFunk, i’m afraid not 5th for long.
Yes, of course individual numbers matter a great in baseball.
July 29th, 20103:42 pm
Fifth best…but just last week we had the 2nd best…. :/….god this week has sucked @$$…….went from a few plays of sweeping FL…to losing 2 of 3….and on cusp of losing 2 of 3 to the nationals….ugh.
July 29th, 20103:43 pm
a scout from the Blue Jays is here at the game today. I know they’ve got quite a few relievers available if the Braves go that route like Kevin Gregg, Jason Frasor, and Scott Downs, also 3B/RF Jose Bautista.
I doubt we’re losing this game……NATS suck.
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