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358 comments Add your comment
Jay H.
July 19th, 2010
5:27 pm
Lots of vegetarians are fat. They eat too much bread & pasta & sugar.
Michael
July 19th, 2010
5:28 pm
In all fairness, medals should be awarded for NOT hitting Prince Fielder. C’mon, that’s a lot of Brewer to miss with a fastball.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:28 pm
Peter, that may all be true, but I was telling you what the league saw. I think it was handled on the field and that should have been the end of it.
Terrance X
July 19th, 2010
5:29 pm
THE SUSPENSION WAS DESERVED !!! i have been a Braves fan all my life but it does not mean i have to lose my objectivity ! whether you like Fielder or not – doesn’t matter. tell you what – if you think it was ok for Venters to throw those two pitches – you stand in there and let someone throw at you.
Curly Lowe & Mary
July 19th, 2010
5:30 pm
Bobby could borrow Bobby Valentine’s Groucho glasses.
David O'Brien
July 19th, 2010
5:30 pm
Andy, Glaus was hit in the lower part of his hip, not the ribs. Just for sake of accuracy.
Peter
July 19th, 2010
5:31 pm
Hey Andy…. 2 Braves got hit Sunday……… SO wasn’t it handled on the field ?
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:32 pm
David, it was in response to the guy who said he was hit in the ribs, but thanks I thought it was the hip as well.
Keith
July 19th, 2010
5:33 pm
Why not get a real commissioner for MLB?
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:34 pm
Peter, I have said twice before this that I thought it was taken care of on the field.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
5:34 pm
Glaus was hit in the hip.
Ron
July 19th, 2010
5:34 pm
Pitiful. I sure miss baseball.
912 Dawg
July 19th, 2010
5:36 pm
I don’t think Corey Hart is going to be a brave after all this
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
5:37 pm
Terrance X……..IF, you were a Braves fan, you would know that Venters did not hit Fielder intentionally.
Veteran Fan
July 19th, 2010
5:38 pm
Bud “STEROIDS” Selig will long be remembered as the worst commissioner ever in the game! His coddling up to the big market teams like the Yankees and Dodgers is legendary. His ignorance of anything going on in baseball is criminal given his $19 million in salary! Please Bud RESIGN for the GOOD of the game!
BravesFanLostInOhio
July 19th, 2010
5:38 pm
lol @ Michael 5:28
gadawgs
July 19th, 2010
5:38 pm
What a bunch of f**king pu**ies the Brewers are. Macha needs to worry about managing instead acting like a little b*tch. Venters getting four games is ridiciulous even if he did hit him on purpose (which I think he did and fat boy deserved). Watch the Brewers “dig” in as their so-called mgr said they do and DARE you to throw inside. What are the pitchers supposed to do just give up that part of the plate up? If you are dug in and leaning over you are going to get hit, that’s baseball you bunch of pansies. If you show a pitcher up the next time you come up you get lit up, that’s baseball. You hit one of ours we hit one of yours, that’s baseball. The Brewers lead the league in hit batsmen (there has to be a REASON and it ain’t because they play the Braves every game). I hope the next time we play them that we drill the first guy that comes up to the plate. If fat*ss Watson doesn’t issue the SAME punishment against Macha and the Brewers pitcher the sh*t should hit the fan. Unbelievable.
Chop Chop
July 19th, 2010
5:39 pm
The suspensions are alright. Venters could use a few days off. He’s been used a lot. As for Bobby, who cares?
Much ado about very little.
Stat Man
July 19th, 2010
5:40 pm
Wonder how often a pitcher would be suspended if say, Bob Gibson, were in charge of that instead of Bob Watson?
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:41 pm
Terrance X……..IF, you were a Braves fan, you would know that Venters did not hit Fielder intentionally.
__________________________________
Not this again cry. You cant know for sure if they did or didnt throw at him. Only Venters, and maybe some of his team do. Come on. I know you like to make stuff up but you have to let this go.
Jay H.
July 19th, 2010
5:41 pm
As you say, it seemed settled on the field. Now, I hope Princess gets plunked again tonight by Karstens. MLB has fanned the flames with this inappropriate suspension.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
5:42 pm
Kieth @533pm……Why not get a real commissioner for MLB?
Because Selig is an owner like the rest of them.The last real commissioner was fired because he didn’t give in, to the owners.
Matt the Brave
July 19th, 2010
5:43 pm
And that is why Ken Macha will never get into the postseason.
Jamie
July 19th, 2010
5:44 pm
The usual sissy ball that MLB has become! Bob Gibson wouldn’t make it one start now days. I agree with the previous posts- Selig’s babies so punishment is due!
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:45 pm
What is so hard to understand about this? Hitting Prince did not get anyone suspended, it was the location of the pitches. MLB has to make sure it protects it players, and throwing around the shoulders twice in a row is something they can not let slide.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:46 pm
Matt, last year was the first time he wasnt in the postseason.
Probability
July 19th, 2010
5:46 pm
Venters does not have the best control of his pitches yet. He is still very young and polishing his repertoire. Prince Fielder crowds the plate when he is in the batter’s box. Venters was trying to throw inside to Fielder (who hits somewhere around .150 on pitches to the inside part of the plate) and he simply lost control of 2 consecutive pitches. One he released too soon and it went high; the next he located too far inside and it hit Fielder. That is it. End of discussion.
The Brewers know Bobby Cox and the Braves organisation well enough to deduce that there was no intention behind it. They are having a very disappointing season thus far though. Failing to meet expectations, especially with 3 of the best power hitters in the league, is grating on them. There is the explanation for their reaction to the events.
I disagree with the suspensions, but they won’t effect the Braves or Venters in the future.
david bowden
July 19th, 2010
5:46 pm
Stop the B.S. Yes he hit him and he WE will DO it AGAIN !!
Back off !!!!! Thats real baseball!!
Jamie
July 19th, 2010
5:47 pm
And Princess sure is manly to be such a little b****! Making daddy proud!
Tech sucks
July 19th, 2010
5:49 pm
What a freaking joke.
Mark Biles
July 19th, 2010
5:49 pm
Thia sux. Thing is, we have to play a player short for 4 games. Not fair. Wonder if it had been another team besides the Brewers if the ruling would have been so unfair?
Andy
July 19th, 2010
5:50 pm
Jamie, what did prince say to make him a B****? Did he complain about being hit? I can see being upset with Macha but what did Prince say?
DIT
July 19th, 2010
5:56 pm
Selig, the worst commissioner in Baseball history, being x owner of the Brewers have anything to do with the Braves suspensions???
LUKE
July 19th, 2010
5:57 pm
good enough for both of them to get a good kicking . hoping it would be chipper
oldguy
July 19th, 2010
5:59 pm
I’m an old guy who likes baseball….just kind of thinking back when players like Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, etc. played….sure was different. Wonder why?
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
5:59 pm
Braves are one of the best comeback teams in the NL this season.
They were down, by only 3 runs.
Why would they want to take the chance of more runs being scored by the Brewers, by hitting Prince and putting another man on base?
It does not make any sense, at all, and any real Braves or baseball fan knows that.
So what reason would they want to hit Prince for on purpose?
That does not compute, Andy Robinson.
It’s illogical.
It’s not smart baseball for a team in 1st place, in a divisional race to take a chance of blowing, a game for a stupid action such as that.
Also, a lot of players showboat after a HR, against the Braves and the BRaves never try to hit those player in their next AB.
Also, Fielder really didn’t do much of anything for any opposing team to seek retaliation, after his HR.
If the Braves were a team that throws at batters, they would be throwing at people like Howard in Philly, or Mets batters, on teams that count, instead of batters on a team like the Brewers.
Dan
July 19th, 2010
6:03 pm
Its not what fielder said when he got hit, it was his posing after hitting a dinger. Good for Venters and Cox if he ordered it, you showboat you get plunked.
chipdip
July 19th, 2010
6:03 pm
PRINCE FIELDER LOVES WATERMELON AND KOOL-AID.
wjones
July 19th, 2010
6:04 pm
Let’s compromise. We agree to the 4-game suspension, but we get to pick the pitcher. I choose Jesse Chavez.
Starring Kam Fong as Chin Ho
July 19th, 2010
6:05 pm
Macha has Cox envy
J-Man
July 19th, 2010
6:05 pm
I think being that Andy Petite is on the DL that they may look at Kenshin Kawakami maybe they will trade Joba Chamberlain for him.
Connie Mack
July 19th, 2010
6:07 pm
Nesbitt for Heisman
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:07 pm
Also, a lot of players showboat after a HR, against the Braves and the BRaves never try to hit those player in their next AB.
________
Really? They have hit the brewers three out of the seven times they have homered against the Braves. Either the next batter, or the player that hit the homerun the next AB.
Now I cant read peoples minds like cry but what I think happened was Venters threw the first pitch and was upset about being warned and thought, oh yeah? You are going to warn me for that? Well this is what happens when I throw at someone. I dont think it was called from the dougout, rather just a case of someone losing their temper with a baseball in their hands.
MaxxBrave
July 19th, 2010
6:07 pm
This is nonsense. What about Glaus getting beamed yesterday when we were blowing them out? Just because Ken Macha wants a suspension MLB gives it to him? This is crap
miker
July 19th, 2010
6:08 pm
Just shows again how stupid MLB management is. Hitting or throwing at batters is none of their business. For over 100 yrs the players policed themselves without help from management idots. Stop the stupid DH,suspend players for charging the mound, take away umpires authority to throw out pitchers for thowing at hitters. Let the players (pitchers) protect their teams. Baseball was the perfect sport from 1948 – 1957. Return to the rules as they were then.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:09 pm
Venters the hot kid? That is hilarious.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:10 pm
Its not what fielder said when he got hit, it was his posing after hitting a dinger. Good for Venters and Cox if he ordered it, you showboat you get plunked.
___________
Thats how he finishes his swing, he didnt stand there, go to whezenball and look at his trot time. I could see if he stood there.
Nice chipdip. You make the ATL proud with your racist garbage.
Mathman
July 19th, 2010
6:11 pm
J-Man: You must be kidding. Joba Chamberlain for KK. Doubt if the Yanks would give you a 2nd grade prospect for KK or McLouse either.
TuckerBravesFan
July 19th, 2010
6:11 pm
I totally agree with What About The Other Guy..
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:12 pm
Like I said cry, I cant read peoples minds, it was just MHO. The reason that this wasnt handled like it was in the 20s is simple. Money. People make too much of it to risk a career ending injury by a kid who couldnt keep the ball away from someones head.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:13 pm
Meant hot-head kid.
That Jonny Venters, he is one bad motherf……..”shut yo mouth”……..but I’m talkin bout Venters……..”then you can do it”
Tallcarl
July 19th, 2010
6:14 pm
I think we should thow a couple at Ángel´. The man is evil. He is the one who has issues with the Braves from old Pennant days when he help rob the team.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:14 pm
Also, what is beamed? Is that an ATL thing? I thought it was beaned as in a beanball?
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:16 pm
It sounded like you were reading Venters mind @ 607pm.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:17 pm
But, it also sounds like you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to Braves baseball.
Peter
July 19th, 2010
6:19 pm
Hey Stat Man..great stuff…….Bob Gibson was flat out MEAN…..in a way anyone would respect !
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:19 pm
Now I cant read peoples minds like cry but what I think happened was Venters threw the first pitch and was upset about being warned and thought, oh yeah? You are going to warn me for that? Well this is what happens when I throw at someone. I dont think it was called from the dougout, rather just a case of someone losing their temper with a baseball in their hands.
_________________________________________________
Wow, if I could have made it any clearer in this post that I could read his mind I would have done it. I am sorry cry I will put it in caps next time.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:19 pm
LOL couldnt read his mind
Michael
July 19th, 2010
6:20 pm
4 games is steep. The players association will get it down to 2.
DDog10
July 19th, 2010
6:21 pm
Mr. Pappagiorgio you are close with your “not hitting anyone intentionally with a breaking ball” comment unless your Tom Glavine throwing at Dale Murphy.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:22 pm
But, it also sounds like you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to Braves baseball.
____________________
This isnt about knowing Braves baseball, its about you stating things as facts when they cleary are just you opinions, no matter how misinformed you are.
1.) How can you possibly know what Venters was thinking?
2.) Your comment about the Braves not hitting people after they hit HRs. When the hit nearly half the Brewers that did.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:22 pm
As for as Venters getting mad, the kid is just glad to be in the majors as reported in the AJC,(I’m not reading his mind), and it seems like you would probably have to set him on fire, to get him angry.
Michael
July 19th, 2010
6:23 pm
I like watermelon, kool-aid, fried chicken and greens. Who doesn’t? Don’t like malt liquor, more of a Guinness man myself. Do I lose my bro’ card?
pdt
July 19th, 2010
6:24 pm
If Venters’ didn’t mean to hit Fielder then he should be removed from the team for having no control. It was the most intentional hit I’ve ever seen. He should be suspended.
Peter
July 19th, 2010
6:26 pm
Hey Andy……..watch the Braves much ?
Venters has thrown to the back stop quite a few times this year, each time he did it that I saw, the batter was right handed…….. Had he been in the left hand box, the same would have happened, but it would have looked like he was throwing at the batter.
Vikki Locke
July 19th, 2010
6:27 pm
First!
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:27 pm
As for as Venters getting mad, the kid is just glad to be in the majors as reported in the AJC,(I’m not reading his mind), and it seems like you would probably have to set him on fire, to get him angry.
______________________
There you go!!!! Thats an opinon, much difrent then a fact.
Michael, its fine when you say it about yourself, I too like those things but when you say it about a black player with nothing else to your comment it will come acrossed as racist.
Thomas
July 19th, 2010
6:27 pm
Have you ever been hit by 80 MPH sinking fastball? It don’t feel so good. Not taking sides either but rules are made to be enforced and the warning came on pitch 1 and pitch 2 was in the back. Intentional or not the rules dictated after the warning. GO BRAVES!
Andy
July 19th, 2010
6:28 pm
Hey Andy……..watch the Braves much ?
Venters has thrown to the back stop quite a few times this year, each time he did it that I saw, the batter was right handed…….. Had he been in the left hand box, the same would have happened, but it would have looked like he was throwing at the batter.
____________________
Did he do it twice in a row and get warned after the first pitch? Didnt think so…
vermont 39
July 19th, 2010
6:30 pm
BS…BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS…BS.BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BSBS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS…BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BSBS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS…BS.BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS…BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BSBS….BS…BS….BS….BS…BS….BS….BS…say no more!!!
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:30 pm
The bottom line is, the Braves don’t need to throw at players on an insignificant team of underachievers like the Brewers to win against them.
Kyle
July 19th, 2010
6:32 pm
If they are going to pull this suspention crap then you might as well make it worth it….JFK him next time.
Long Time Braves Fan
July 19th, 2010
6:38 pm
Andy is sure not a Braves fan, he should go to a blog for his own team. Venters should have got his moneys worth for 4 games, it should have been a fastball right to the head.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:38 pm
Andy, I’m sorry, that your team has a losing record.
But I’m getting the picture, that in your mind, you are just an angry Brewers fan, and that your team, just can’t ever get better.
I believe that you feel, maybe this will be the year, but it always goes down hill for the lowly Brewers.
You are more than likely, wishing that you were a Braves fan
P. Bull Terrier
July 19th, 2010
6:41 pm
On one hand you have the Braves and Bobby Cox with no history of throwing at batters, even when others thought they deserved it. With a shot at the playoffs in a tough division, in the middle of a winnable game, they happen to hit the guy who gets hit more than anyone else in the league due to his batting stlye.
On the other hand you have the Brewers, a team already out of the playoff race, and Macha, a manager who made no secret of the fact he was angry about his batters being hit the previous day. They throw 3 straight inside pitches before they finally hit Heyward, then after the umpire’s warning, they follow it up by hitting Glaus.
Who gets suspended? The Braves manager and pitcher? You’ve got to be kidding!
MLB is starting to look like the NBA and Pro Wrestling – no credibility at all.
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
6:43 pm
How could they not have ejected the pitcher for hitting Glaus after both teams were warned. That is the umpire not doing his job. MLB should reprimand him and suspend his ass 4 games.
al
July 19th, 2010
6:44 pm
Didn’t take long for Escobar to start hitting the ball. Probably more at ease now that he can play with a team that appreciates his talent.
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
6:46 pm
All Braves have to do is next time Hernandez is the umpire, let Tommy Hanson or whomever throw a 97 mph fastball into his shoulder (McCann can act like he’s trying to catch the ball).
southeast ga braves fan!
July 19th, 2010
6:47 pm
fielder is just too big a target!
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:48 pm
al…….I hope that Escobar goes on to have a great career.
But, he was not helping the Braves, so he needed to be gone.
Shane
July 19th, 2010
6:48 pm
Didn’t take long for Escobar to start hitting the ball. Probably more at ease now that he can play with a team that appreciates his talent.
The Braves appreciated it just fine. He played 446 games for the Braves at SS. Its not the braves fault Escobar quit on the team. They gave him every chance to show he wanted to be here.
In the end he made his own bed. Enjoy 4th place Yunel. Better take a jacket. I heard it can get cold in Toronto.
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:51 pm
If A. Hernandez is not the worst umpire in MLB, he certainly is in the top five.
He should be dismissed.
Jim
July 19th, 2010
6:54 pm
Shane he finished in 4th place last year with the Braves, didnt bother him much then.
Tami
July 19th, 2010
6:55 pm
I think this is pretty low. Although I didn’t see this part of the game, WHY would the Braves — collectively or independently — throw at the Brewers? WHY would Venters want to even hit Fielder, especially in that situation?? I think the Brewers & their manager are a bunch of crybabies. FOUR games & an undisclosed fine???? That’s WAAAY too much. Come on, MLB!! I think Venters should appeal.
JOHNNY B
July 19th, 2010
6:55 pm
I heard the talking heads on MLB tonight talking about guys who may get traded at the deadline and they were “Man loving” on Fielder!
They said the one drawback could be his pending free agency after 2011. Since Boras will push him to free agency and demand a contract in the Teixeira range (180 million for 8 years) Tex isn’t even worth that little lone Fielder!
I think he and Boras will both fall on their wallets if they really think his market value is that high!
tristan
July 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
You guys are forgetting where this really happened. Fielder threw an elbow at EOF in Milwaukee this year when EOF was covering first. EOF had thrown one up and in on Fielder and Fielder stared him down. Fielder grounded out to first and while EOF was covering, he tried to elbow him while running inside the baseline to get even closer to EOF. If you have MLB.com package online, you can go review it. It was the May 11th game and it was around the sixth-eighth innings. We all knew that the elbow was intentional at the time, and that is where MLB should have thrown the suspension. An attempt to strike someone with your arm/elbow should be an automatic suspension. How he got away with that is beyond me.
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
If I were a pitcher and an umpire kept calling pitches balls I knew were strikes I’d grill him in the face mask with a fastball intentionally. You know, it slipped…
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
Jim…..it seemed like a lot of things bothered him. But, I agree, where his team finished in the standings, really didn’t seem to be one of them.
Vstatenatlchamps
July 19th, 2010
6:57 pm
I am so freakn mad…this is bull…i am almost as mad as I would be if Kenshin Kawakami evers pitches again for the braves.
Mike
July 19th, 2010
6:57 pm
http://gasportreport.blogspot.com/
It is that time of the year. With our team in a penant race brush back and bean balls will be regular and some will start a bench clearing pillow fight.
A’int it great to be in contention again!
crymeariver
July 19th, 2010
6:59 pm
tristan@656……He got away with it, because the Commish ownes his team.
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
7:01 pm
DOB MIA AS U S U A L.
Brava
July 19th, 2010
7:01 pm
Andy, the Brewers fan is back today to gloat because his pantywaist, unprofessional manager went and complained to MLB because his obese 1B got plunked by a rookie who is known to throw wild pitches. The fact is, Andy, your pitcher hit our player yesterday and received a warning. Two batters later, he hit another player and our manager did not demand that the pitcher and your pansy manager get ejected as happened to the Braves the night before. He could have demanded that the umpire enforce the rules, Andy, but he didn’t because he’s a professional who isn’t petty. Perhaps your wussy manager should stop having his players hang out all over the plate and they wouldn’t have the most hit batsmen in baseball. As for Prince Fata*s, maybe he could lose 130 pounds, you know get around 180 ( good weight for a 5′11″ guy), and he wouldn’t be such a gargantuan target for an errant pitch.
Thomas
July 19th, 2010
7:03 pm
MLB Rule 8.02 (d)
d) Intentionally Pitch at the Batter. If, in the umpire’s judgment, such a violation occurs, the umpire may elect either to:
1. Expel the pitcher, or the manager and the pitcher, from the game, or
2. may warn the pitcher and the manager of both teams that another such pitch will result in the immediate expulsion of that pitcher (or a replacement) and the manager. If, in the umpire’s judgment, circumstances warrant, both teams may be officially “warned” prior to the game or at any time during the game. (League Presidents may take additional action under authority provided in Rule 9.05) To pitch at a batter’s head is unsportsmanlike and highly dangerous. It should be_and is_condemned by everybody. Umpires should act without hesitation in enforcement of this rule.
“The umpires judgement should be called into question before making suspentions!”
Long Time Braves Fan
July 19th, 2010
7:03 pm
Next time a player needs to be hot put KK in 2 do it, then a 4 game sepention would not hurt.
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
7:07 pm
Heck run McLouth out there to get er done…
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
7:09 pm
Bottomline the umpire didn’t enforce MLB rules by ejecting the pitcher that hit Glaus after forewarning each team. How can that go unpunished ?
Brava
July 19th, 2010
7:11 pm
Exactly, robdawg. There seems to be a double standard here.
Andy
July 19th, 2010
7:11 pm
Andy, the Brewers fan is back today to gloat because his pantywaist, unprofessional manager went and complained to MLB because his obese 1B got plunked by a rookie who is known to throw wild pitches. The fact is, Andy, your pitcher hit our player yesterday and received a warning. Two batters later, he hit another player and our manager did not demand that the pitcher and your pansy manager get ejected as happened to the Braves the night before. He could have demanded that the umpire enforce the rules, Andy, but he didn’t because he’s a professional who isn’t petty. Perhaps your wussy manager should stop having his players hang out all over the plate and they wouldn’t have the most hit batsmen in baseball. As for Prince Fata*s, maybe he could lose 130 pounds, you know get around 180 ( good weight for a 5′11″ guy), and he wouldn’t be such a gargantuan target for an errant pitch.
________________________________
What dont you and cry get about it? I came on here and said it was a joke that they were suspended. Had you read the comments before just jumping in and givng a opinion you would know this. Either that or you are not smart enough to get it. I understand that you are upset about your guys get some vacation but dont let a cooler head stop you witch hunt.
cry. I didnt think this is the Brewers year, just like I dont think it will be next year. Clearly after all the times I have posted your errors, you got a little upset about not being able to come back at me with anything. Kind of like the guys on here that cant think of anything meaningfull to say so they just resort to calling Prince fat.
robdawg08
July 19th, 2010
7:12 pm
Or you could let Heyward score from 2nd on a single and hit Hernandez like a linebacker at the plate. That would be sweet !