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2,249 comments Add your comment
Danga
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
Ugh…Alarm clock comes early tomorrow. Enjoy hashing this one out folks. The Escobar era has come to an end in Atlanta. I would have rather spent the second half hoping the punk finally figures things out than watching Gonzalez revert to his norm, but I don’t get to make those decisions. I’m just praying he doesn’t make it higher than 7th in the lineup.
T for Texas
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
B41995:
Don’t do much speculative trade talk, seems pointless. But, KC is actively shopping D DeJesus. He is an AVG, OBP, contact, and defense guy.
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
“His season has been subpar since that game.
Whaddya think folks?”
I’m of the opinion that Escobar is homesick in a way the rest of us cannot imagine. He literally cannot go home and he is someone who needs strong guidance. It has stunted his growth in terms of maturity. The reason I don’t see things getting better for him in Toronto is that I struggle to believe that a Cuban kid who is homesick will cheer up when it snows in April and September. I really don’t think he’s a bad kid, just someone who is miserably unhappy about something far beyond his control.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
Bruce–
Thanks for the link! I always forget about the vent…I saved those for sure!!
Nöcho
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
DOB, your 9:46 was perfect. I almost posted the same thing when I saw that from sri. But passed.
I don’t care if Gonzalez has (1) legit HR this year. It’s still 1 more than Escobar had.
You pinpointed it as far as I’m concerned. Much rather “give up” on Yunel and get a servicable SS who is a team player and shows up ready to play, than ANY of the young pitching prospects.
Like I said earlier today, it is a trade that CLEARLY makes the Braves a better team in 2010 and reall does nothing in the way of hurting the future. Especially if this is what they could come to expect from Escobar.
Very nice, solid trade.
Period.
Steve McP
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
Basically in 2010 Yunel was not a part of this team, Gonzalez knows how to win and I am sure he will contribute, this is a move by FW for this season, but with much less downside for the future than JS’s Tex trade (which was made when the Braves were trailing badly not when they were 4 games up).
richbrave
July 14th, 2010
10:01 pm
“……….Unlike some fans, there were no longer Braves players saying you shouldn’t trade Escobar because of his high ceiling. Because they have seen him fail to mature and develop as a player………….” DOB
Thanx for the insight DAVE. I feel vindicated, not that I’m pleased YUNEL followed a path I suspected that he might. I would have much preferred consistant All-Star caliber play for the young man. At least, he’ll get to see his buddy BRAYAN PENA once in awhile, if he doesn’t hold a grudge against him for convincing him he should defect.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:01 pm
JOsh Willingham us having a pretty good defensive year
his UZR is .7, (in the positives)
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
10:02 pm
Guilty as charged, thin.
Reality, you’ll probably think better of me after this blog is finished and a new one is up.
Today was a day for being snarky, and I made the most of it.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
July 14th, 2010
10:02 pm
I bout jumped outa my drawers when I got wind of this trade. Yunel had become a sullen head-case. He was like that one damned Christmas light that doesn’t work; the whole tree shines more brightly when it’s replaced.
DC
July 14th, 2010
10:02 pm
Kinda makes you wonder what the Jays were smokin…I mean thinking………
sidslidkid
July 14th, 2010
10:04 pm
“I’m just praying he doesn’t make it higher than 7th in the lineup.” – Danga
Gonzalez has a freakin ton of extra base hits… let’s wait until he goes into the inevitable slump you think he’s going into until we write him off.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:05 pm
T for Texas
His UZR is not soo much better than Willingham. He is another Nate Mclouth
Nöcho
July 14th, 2010
10:06 pm
To hell with team chemistry already. Hogwash.
I couldn’t care less if anybody LIKES him. The real question is if the players TRUST him as a player/teammate and more importantly, does the manager trust that when he puts his name in the lineup he’s going to give 150% effort to do everything he can to help the team win.
I haven’t read anything about people not liking Escobar. I’ve read plenty of “between the lines” comments where Bobby, Wren, Chipper and other teammates are tired of Escobar the PLAYER. Not the person.
I’m not talking about what he’s capable of playing like. We all know how good he could be if he wanted to be. I’m talking about how good he’s willing to be. Obviously Wren and Cox determined that how good Escobar was willing to be….. wasn’t good enough for their likings.
Besides. He had frosted tips. I mean, come on???!!?
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:07 pm
I will say that I think Pastornicky is a good sleeper prospect, though. He has the potential to be a Coach-type of player–great D, decent BA, good OBP, no power and blazing speed. He’d fit well in the leadoff spot in the future. Unfortunately, he’s got to sustain this year’s progress in walk rate along with doing some future work on the batting average. His path is anything but certain.
Lew
July 14th, 2010
10:08 pm
Yunel polarizing? Nah. Ya think? Can anyone doubt it after reading the posts the past nine hours?
Sonny Clusters
July 14th, 2010
10:08 pm
The left side is pretty old right about now and with some bad knees and obliques and thumbs and toes and hamstrings and wrists and ankles and such. Wren is trying to win it this year and that’s okay with us
Tommeee O'Hawkeee
July 14th, 2010
10:08 pm
Wayne
Your 9:47 theory was very interesting. If it was any other player I’d say you’re nuts. But with Yunel, you just never know. I’m not saying I think that’s what happened, but you did make me think.
Vol_in_Ohio
July 14th, 2010
10:09 pm
JPR on ESPN liked the deal and thought both prospects the Jays gave up were solid. I didn’t realize that Gonzo was locked up next year too (even better – a team option). We don’t exactly have a SS waiting in the wings anymore.
Lew
July 14th, 2010
10:10 pm
Look at all of the left side infield players the Braves have signed/drafted/traded for the past several months and then tell me that Yunel had a snowball’s chance in the Peachtree Road Race of a long term future in Atlanta. It was really only a matter of when, not if.
David O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
10:10 pm
Had someone on Twitter say that it was a good trade, that Escobar could be a Pedroia-type player but that he had some growing up to do.
And that led me to look up their ages, because people forget that Escobar is not that young anymore.
Sure enough, I checked their ages and Escobar (officially) is 9 months older than Pedroia. He’s a year older than Ryan Braun, 15 months older than Brian McCann, 13 months older than Hanley Ramirez,
Lost Cause
July 14th, 2010
10:11 pm
Tyler Pastornicky I believe is the real piece to this puzzle. This is actually what I like about Cox’s tenure as coach. The trouble makers are only allowed so many mishaps before they are sent far far away. Go Braves!
T for Texas
July 14th, 2010
10:11 pm
His UZR is not soo much better than Willingham. He is another Nate Mclouth
When Bill James says a stat (UZR) is arbitrary and suspect (for many reasons, #1 being it is based on human observation) I disregard that stat. With your own eyes watch DDJ and Willingham play defense and tell me they are the same. You won’t.
Danga
July 14th, 2010
10:11 pm
Sid…I think it has already started. Just look at the guys month by months. He had a good April. Since then there have been a whole lot of outs in between extra base hits. The only reason this guy is an upgrade is because Yunel has been so bad this year. Although the Braves have had some experience with that his year. We can call it the McLouth effect.
Now It Comes Out!
July 14th, 2010
10:11 pm
“Unlike some fans, there were no longer Braves players saying you shouldn’t trade Escobar because of his high ceiling. Because they have seen him fail to mature and develop as a player.”
Thank you DOB for confirming what has been speculated for some time now. Your report of what you have seen and heard inside the Braves locker room probably won’t sway those who refuse to believe that their opinion is not more informed than the players and management of the Braves organization.
thinbreakness
July 14th, 2010
10:11 pm
We need to get one thing straight: this trade is not, and was not intended to be, a tipping point one way or the other for the team. The Braves had a problem at one position that they had to solve, and they solved it while also picking up two prospects
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
10:11 pm
“But it takes a lot of cajones to trade Yunel Escobar for that guy with the hope that it’ll continue long enough to help you into the playoffs and offset the potential future loss of performance with Yunel.”
I missed your comments about scouting previously. We’ll discuss them on another day when you’re not as dialed up as I would enjoy hearing them.
With regards to this particular quote, what I will say is this. Here are two applicable quotes about Gonzalez:
“”He can sure pick it. I’ve never seen a guy out there with so much confidence.” — Cito Gaston on his defense
“As I told Alex, the two most professional position players that I’ve probably been around in my time in the game have been Scott Rolen and Alex Gonzalez. ” — Toronto’s GM on Gonzalez as a player/person
If we look at the box scores, the debate comes down to Yunel’s track record vs. Gonzalez’s 2010 performance. If we look at the people involved in terms of makeup, something I mentioned to you the other day that I consider to be THE most important aspect of a player, it’s the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing it.
You are evaluating the deal as our giving up a younger piece you see as superior. I am evaluating the deal as us improving ourselves in the short term, not having to non-tender Yunel in November a la Kelly Johnson, and picking up one great and one okay prospect in the process. It’s fine that we don’t agree, but I wanted to take a moment to try to break the down to its sum parts to show you why I like it so much. After this (and a reply from you if so inclined), we can agree to disagree.
MIBravesFan
July 14th, 2010
10:13 pm
“Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
10:00 pm
“His season has been subpar since that game.
Whaddya think folks?”
I’m of the opinion that Escobar is homesick in a way the rest of us cannot imagine. He literally cannot go home and he is someone who needs strong guidance. It has stunted his growth in terms of maturity. The reason I don’t see things getting better for him in Toronto is that I struggle to believe that a Cuban kid who is homesick will cheer up when it snows in April and September. I really don’t think he’s a bad kid, just someone who is miserably unhappy about something far beyond his control.”
That was an excellent post. Where was that sort of insight earlier when you seemed to just be bashing the guy? Whatever happens to him going forward, it took an enormous amount of courage to do what he did to get here, and I can’t help but root for him to both succeed and eventually be happy.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:13 pm
Problem with that is just looking at both their hitting stats in a vacuum and not applying any context. Yunel is nearly .200 points lower than his career OPS. He is hitting a ton more infield flys at a insane 11% rate so I agree he’s just been plain ******, but the odds he will stay at his current production are terribly low. Factor in that he is much younger, above average defensively, and normally is a decent power hitting SS with a SLG over .400(and probably will be in the future), and this trade just makes no sense.
feeanch
July 14th, 2010
10:13 pm
All hail to the chief! Great insights DOB at 945. Glad you’re back in the ATL. Can’t wait for the game tomorrow night.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:13 pm
When Bill James says a stat (UZR) is arbitrary and suspect (for many reasons, #1 being it is based on human observation) I disregard that stat.
That’s not a bad philosophy. Once BH mentioned that +/- is on fangraphs, I made a mental note to never use UZR again.
Nöcho
July 14th, 2010
10:14 pm
Some growing up to do DOB? I’d say that if the Braves brass thought Yunel had an even remote chance of becoming Pedroia, this trade is never even thought about.
Maybe it’s a classic “change of scenery” case, and Escobar will go on to the HOF with the Jays. But I seriously doubt it.
Here all along we just thought he was a firey Cuban with a little pizzazz to him. Turns out he’s just a baffoon with an attitude problem.
At least Manny Ramirez was hitting 40 bombs a year when he was making a fool of himself.
Vol_in_Ohio
July 14th, 2010
10:14 pm
I have to admit that it suprised me a little when I saw Esco was 27. Always assumed younger.
At some point you get into arbitration while waiting on him to mature. May come back to burn, but seems like a good move.
Moe Berg
July 14th, 2010
10:15 pm
Just reading up on the discussion. I believe that the word ‘dude’ has been used more today than I have ever before seen. Obviously, the trade has sparked a great deal animated discussion, but I rather leave ‘dude’ to the Coen brothers.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
July 14th, 2010
10:15 pm
thinbreakness, you’re pretty danged smart.
haggard
July 14th, 2010
10:15 pm
I can’t help but see the play where he roams far into the hole- seemingly winding up behind Chipper–before gloving the ball and leaping into the air to unleash an on-target throw that beats the runner by a step.
Escobar had made that play a couple of times during the past two weeks and when DOB mentioned the strong possibility of a couple of new faces appearing on the Braves’ roster following the break, I would have never thought Esco would be gone to make room, especially during the middle of the season.
After the break, I kept telling myself, he’ll snap out of this funk and we’ll see that awkward-angled stance begin producing those booming doubles into the right-cenetr field gap and–to tell you the truth–I was more than a little disappointed when I first heard about the trade on the way home this afternoon here in Atlanta. Mainly I was disappointed as a Braves fan, disappointed to see a fellow groomed by the organization–and such an integral part of the team as recently as last year–shown the door. As someone recently said on the blog, “That’s Yunel, but he’s our Yunel”.
Somehow, the departure of Reyes doesn’t have quite the same feel and I’m guessing that’s because it seems as if he was given plenty of chances while just never catching on.
But I’ve realized I was hoping for something that hasn’t been on dispaly for a while and now the Braves have traded for someone who has been–and hopefully will continue to–find the gaps with those well placed line drives. And we won’t be counting on something that “might be”.
Frank Wren’s done a good job fitting the pieces together and, for some time now, the organization’s list of moves that just simply didn’t workout is a short one.
There are few ex-Braves out there who’s performances make me wish they were still in an Atlanta uniform.
And as Lew said earlier;”Give this a chance. You don’t really have any choice now, do you?”.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:16 pm
.296 OBP wants to make me vomit
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:17 pm
GV–nah, I’ve calmed a bit. Whaddya got on scouting? Personally, I like it.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:17 pm
Maybe he will do better in the NL
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
10:17 pm
“Where was that sort of insight earlier when you seemed to just be bashing the guy?”
I’ve made three or four posts along these lines today. The problem is that they got lost in the shuffle of 19 boards worth of AIEEEEEEEE! I also posted an exceptional Sports Illustrated column. Here is the link if you’re interested: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1130711/index.htm
idfan
July 14th, 2010
10:21 pm
best part about this trade is no more bo bo reyes!
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
10:22 pm
“GV–nah, I’ve calmed a bit. Whaddya got on scouting? Personally, I like it.”
Whenever we go to minor league or high school games, my wife and I make a point of sitting by the scouts and chatting them up. It’s a thankless job that requires a brutal amount of time away from home and I have a world of respect for anyone who can do the job well. As a Braves fan, I have the confidence that we train our guys better than anyone else in the game, too.
I do think that there is truth to the fact that scouting is oftentimes an echo chamber that operates much as we’ve seen on this board today wherein opinions are formed and people become intransigent on the point. This is why I like to use a nice mix of scouting, stats and personal accomplishments when I evaluate a prospect. Something I really like about Minor is that when we needed a win in the gold medal game, it was him and not Strasburg who took the ball and got Cuba out. That’s the type of thing that jumps off the page at me as representative of something stats don’t quantify in isolation.
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
10:23 pm
Now if Wrenbrenner continues at his present pace, McLouth hasn’t produced a lick since coming from Pittsburgh (AAA). So it’s time for him to go as well. Please.
So deal him, Marek and Delgado to the Cubs and pick yourself up Marlon Byrd.
Then, force Chipper into retirement (please), take his money and use it to pay Byrd down the line.
Keep hoping Lowe has a good second half so you can unload his $30 million. Bring up Minor for ‘11.
Take that money and give some of it to Cantu, who would be happy to be reunited with new skipper Fredi Gonzalez.
Give the bench a raise and pick them all up.
No worries.
Lew
July 14th, 2010
10:23 pm
Everyone seems focused on whether or not AG can kep hitting Home Runs at his current rate. I say it’’s immaterial whether or not he does. Go and check his record. His 162 game average for doubles over his entire career is 35.
Now think back this furst half and envision all of those bases loaded situations where they remained loaded and think of what a nice double might have meant.
And this is not something based on a single “career year”. He has 30 or more 2B hits four times. The past three years he hit 24, 27 and 22 in 111, 110 and 112 games respectively. He’s already hit 25 2B so far this year.
Home Runs be damned. I’ll take the doubles.
haggard
July 14th, 2010
10:24 pm
McFann
Thanks for posting Hogan and the boys. It never gets old!
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:25 pm
This is why I like to use a nice mix of scouting, stats and personal accomplishments when I evaluate a prospect.
Yes! Scouting and statistics were made to compliment each other, not be exclusive entities. Couldn’t agree more.
However, I will say that once a player gets a lot of ML AB under his belt, the evidence becomes a bit more and more damning, if you know what I mean. I am a strong believer in statistical sample size just as I am a believer that scouting picks up so many things that statistics miss.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:26 pm
The A Bomb
Since he announced that he might be retiring about a month ago, he has been hitting .300+. Do you even watch the Braves games????
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:26 pm
And statistics for minor league players can be hilariously decieving. Hooray for scouts!
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
10:27 pm
The career averages are what should bother the Braves and their fans. Escobar is an all-around better offensive player and defensive player, and like that fangraph’s chart showed…those homers aren’t going to go out for A-Gon in Atlanta.
Career .248 avg and .296 obp and .402 slug.
I mean come on. He is never going to sustain the rate he is at right now. And no way was Escobar going to slump the whole rest of the year.
Jeff Francouer career #’s are even better
269 avg .310 obp .428 slug
Tommeee O'Hawkeee
July 14th, 2010
10:28 pm
The trade is a tough call. For one thing, we don’t know just how much Yunel pissed off Bobby, or others. If you’re not sitting in the dugout, you just don’t know.
As far as the principals are concerned:
The Braves lose a 28 year old player with a good offensive career, but having a bad year. His defense is usually good, sometimes brilliant, but sometimes seems incoherent.
The Braves gain a 33 year old player with a fair (at best) offensive career, but having a good year. From what I know, his defense is good and usually steady.
The Braves are telling us that they’re going for it this year. Unlike the Teixieira trade, the Braves aren’t sacrificing the farm.
With Jo Jo going nowhere with the Braves, the minor league players, in the deal, can’t be any worse than a push, IMO.
I think the Braves are gaining a little, at least on the short term. Maybe, they’re gaining more by subtracting. When I first heard of the trade, I was upset. As time goes by and I have more of a chance to absorb the deal, I’m favoring it. Overall, it’s possible that Wren helped the Braves in the short term, and also in the long term. Time will decide.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
July 14th, 2010
10:29 pm
Read lots of stories bout this today. On not a single one was the headline “Jays Get Escobar!” Didn’t see the Toronto papers, but many others.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:30 pm
The trade is a tough call. For one thing, we don’t know just how much Yunel pissed off Bobby, or others. If you’re not sitting in the dugout, you just don’t know.
Well, I will say this–seeing how passionately DOB has come out in favor of this trade, Yunel must really be some kind of arsehole. I mean, I don’t know, I only see what he reports, and a lot of that stuff is off-the-record. So whatever.
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
10:30 pm
Brave4life etc etc….
Doesn’t matter…. This is “For the Love of the gGame” time for ol’ Chipper. One last shot.
The oblique or Roger Dornitis can appear again at anytime.
Believe me, I don’t know how old you are, but I’ve watched more Braves baseball than most people on this blog — time to cut bait after this season. Give him a golden rifle and send him to Texas.
We did it with Aaron, we did it with Murphy, and even though he’s doing “better” now, there’s no upside to Chipper beyond RIGHT NOW.
MAC-Jinx-eeeeee-arrrrrrrr-uddy
July 14th, 2010
10:30 pm
At the end of the day, you just need to ask yourself on question. Does this make this current team any better? I get some of the concerns about the future, concerns he hits in a hitters park, and what not, but Alex Gonzalez makes this current team better. This is a special group of guys. This team just seems to have some sort of magic around it. It may not turn out to be what it could be, but there is something special there for now. It was time to pull the trigger on getting rid of a guy who has not contributed to the “magic” if you will.
I don’t think Yunel was a “cancer” but he certainly was some sort of sickness. I am definitely glad I root for the name on the front of the jersey, and not the name on the back.
On the other hand, the often neglected side of making a trade like this. The Braves have been playing loose all year. They have been playing with a chip on their shoulder. They weren’t expected by anyone but themselves to be where they are. Most everyone picked the Phillies to be on top of the East. So, with that being said, this trade adds more pressure to the team to win, and win this year. I hope they can continue to brush off the losses as they have done so well this season, and not buckle to the added pressure of now being the favorites to win the NL.
haggard
July 14th, 2010
10:31 pm
David O’Brien
Thanks as always for the timely, succinct reporting. And welcome back!
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:32 pm
“Do you have a source for that bit of hyperbole, other than you butt, I mean.”
HAHA
hAL
July 14th, 2010
10:32 pm
i;; remind you all of your advanced defensive metrics rhe first time the games on the line anf gonzos trying to throw somone out from deep in the hole lol
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:33 pm
I wonder where he bats tomorrow???? 7th???
Prado
Heyward
C.Jones
McCann
Glaus
Hinske
Gonzalez
Melky/Blanco
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:34 pm
The A Bomb
I am 18 years old, but i have not missed a game in the past 2 years. before that i was on and off
haggard
July 14th, 2010
10:35 pm
Sure does seem like a long time since the last game.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:35 pm
Escobar may not be “that young” anymore but he didn’t come to America until 2005, right? So that would mean that he entered the minors at 22-23. So it’s not like he’s been playing professional baseball in America forever
Tommeee O'Hawkeee
July 14th, 2010
10:35 pm
Steve from Ohio (let me know when I can call you Dr. Steve)
I think we’ll find out just how much of an a-hole he was, now that he’s gone. Or at least, a better idea.
richbrave
July 14th, 2010
10:36 pm
DOWN ON THE FARM:
The BIRDS fall 3-5 to the HILLCATS. ZEKE SPRUILL (0-2, 7.56 ERA) takes a loss he probably didn’t deserve. 2 H, 2 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 3 SO in 2.2 IP. Five additional BRAVES hurlers ultimately toe the rubber to no avail.
JORDAN KREKE (.750 BA) goes 3-4 and plates an RBI (1) in his first start at 3B after being promoted from ROME. SS MYCAL JONES (.288 BA) is 2-4, HR (2), RBI (6), 2 R scored.
R-BRAVES come a’cropper 3-5 to HAGERSTOWN. The usual suspect have a mixed performance. 2B PHIL GOSSELIN (.302 BA) is 1-3, RBI (7). 1B RIAAN SPANJER-FURSTENBURG (.309 BA) 1-4, double (8), run scored. CF TODD CUNNINGHAM (.271 BA) 0-3, BB, run scored. SS ED SALCEDO (.216 BA) 0-1, BB, RBI (7), run scored.
MISSISSIPPI in the eighth. STARZ plate five in the fifth and are now up 7-3. BRAVES may lose their first after seven straight wins.
Tomahawk
July 14th, 2010
10:36 pm
the braves ditch esco AND jojo, get solid minor leaguers, and get a guy thats having a pretty good year. at the very worst, if alex’s hrs dont keep coming (they probably wont at the rate they are right now) we’ll have a very solid backup. no one’s saying they couldnt upgrade again later and i do think it was important at this point to deal escobar. nice job flipping a player completely lacking in motivation for a pieces for the future and present. the braves were in first without production from escobar. im not expecting alex to knock out 17 more bombs, but we’ll at least have relatively similar production that we’ve already had at ss without allllll the headaches. a positive move from frank wren.
Jake W.
July 14th, 2010
10:36 pm
I have to admit that it suprised me a little when I saw Esco was 27. Always assumed younger.
I always knew Escobar was older. Coming from Cuba and all doesn’t exactly make for smoother or earlier transistions like other latin players. How old was Andruw when we got him compared to Escobar? I was always counting his time in the US in comparision to his actual age. How long had he actually been in the braves system. Besides some people are just late to the party for whatever reasons. Don’t know if Escobar would have ever shown up to that party, only time will tell.
For the record I acknowledged Escobar has his problems, obviously, I was just hoping that the team would have the patience to wait out these problems but now its obvious they felt they couldn’t or that he would not change. I hope he does, I wish him well in Toronto and maybe whatever lessons he learned here can make him a better player there, I was just hoping that my team would be the one to reap these benefits if this did happen. Oh well, onto the second half sans Escobar. Braves fan first, hope they do well and that Gonzalez proves to be a great add to this team.
Woody Woodward
July 14th, 2010
10:36 pm
Nocho–You’re spot on. Doesn’t matter if the guy doesn’t wipe the seat when he pees as long as he hangs in at the bag for the DP. Can you count on the guy? The answer is no. And he’s 27, going on 28. Good trade, all the best for Yunel.
Dumbfound
July 14th, 2010
10:37 pm
Wow, read what the New York Daily News is saying about the trade. They say it’s about race with the Braves Orginaztion. http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2010/07/esco. They will say anything in new york to try to get a edge on the braves !
MIBravesFan
July 14th, 2010
10:38 pm
Gone Viral – that explained a lot about Esco, and reinforced my hopes for him. As I said, I admire his courage, and I really hope things go well for him in the future. He has a good heart, he’s just having a hard time. Not the first person in the world, and certainly won’t be the last.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:38 pm
Jake – Andruw entered the minor leagues at 17
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:38 pm
Alex Gonzalez does play better in away games. Hopefully Atlanta will be a good fit. I hole he can get that ODP up to at least .350 and his avg. to .270.
Blair
July 14th, 2010
10:39 pm
DOB, I like this trade. But this cannot be the last move for Atlanta. This helps, but it’s not an over-the-top acquisition. Other teams are going to add better players than Gonzalez at the deadline. We are still not getting enough production out of left or center IMO. We need another outfielder.
Dumbfound
July 14th, 2010
10:39 pm
Don’t know what’s up with the link, but click on the sports section it’s there.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
10:40 pm
Lew Home Runs be [danged.] I’ll take the doubles.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
haggard Thanks for posting Hogan and the boys. It never gets old!
You’re welcome! And thanks!
“Hogan and the boys”…Haha! I like it!
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
10:40 pm
Tom O’Hawke–never.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:41 pm
I just hole he can get that ODP up to .300
The Real Don Steele
July 14th, 2010
10:41 pm
The bottom line question is this: do you believe that Gonzalez can hit better than .238 and drive in more than 19 runs between Thursday and season’s end? I do.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:41 pm
jeffrescobar d
Im tired man, give me a break
Woody Woodward
July 14th, 2010
10:42 pm
Braves4life–I’d play better away, too, if Toronto was my home field. The place is terrible.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:42 pm
I just hope he can get his OBP to .350 and avg to .270
Lew
July 14th, 2010
10:42 pm
Of course it’s about race. They traded an Hispanic player for an Hispanic player.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:42 pm
I’m just messin Brave4life. I’ve made my share of typos
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:42 pm
They traded an Hispanic player for an Hispanic player.
And two white guys
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
10:43 pm
And speaking of songs, in honor of yesterday’s big occasion, I bought this one off iTunes.
I know he didn’t knock one out, but when I sing it, I’ll try to incorporate “Double” in there some how.
Woody Woodward
July 14th, 2010
10:43 pm
The only race this trade is about is the pennant race.
Lew
July 14th, 2010
10:44 pm
escobar d -A multi racial deal. How melting pot of them.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:44 pm
Well…one and a half white guys.
Tommeee O'Hawkeee
July 14th, 2010
10:45 pm
Tom O’Hawke–never.
That’s great, Steve! I’ve never been able to call a doctor by his first name. (At least, I never tried.) You’ll be the first!
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:46 pm
Mcfann
Listen to this, Whiskey falls are Philly fans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XZlWUQ-IB8
MIBravesFan
July 14th, 2010
10:46 pm
Hey Dumfound – did you mean “Dumfounded” as in Ross’s memorable public comment? I still remember that one – for a while there I thought of him as “Dumbfounded” David when he was in a game and wondered if he was “dumbfounded” by this call or that call etc. Talk about throwing a teammate under the bus! What was that little quote other than throwing Esco under the bus? But everybody loves David Ross! I know, it’s time to let it go. But this reminds me of how often perception becomes reality, and maybe that played a part in this (Esco’s performance this season). Whatever. It doesn’t matter now. Go Braves!
MAC-Jinx-eeeeee-arrrrrrrr-uddy
July 14th, 2010
10:46 pm
That race article is a joke. Remember a year ago when they traded away the prized white guy prospect?
MZ
July 14th, 2010
10:46 pm
DOB —–
You ever get into Gogol Bordello?
Ryan
July 14th, 2010
10:46 pm
More trade analysis, Sorry if already posted but I didn’t see it yet
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/14/trade-analysis-savvy-deal-for-braves/
Every team makes their share of bad deals, but the Atlanta Braves are one of the clubs that consistently do a solid job of acquiring talent in trades. They did it again on Wednesday, not only filling a hole at shortstop by acquiring veteran Alex Gonzalez but also landing two quality prospects from Toronto.
Headed to Toronto for Gonzalez and the two prospects are Yunel Escobar, a worthwhile gamble for the Jays, and 25-year-old lefty Jo-Jo Reyes. And although Toronto has to be pleased with its haul, and this appears to be a fair deal for both sides involved, it is Atlanta that may come out on top long-term.
For a deal in which Atlanta was, in a sense, the buyer, landing two prospects like 20-year-old lefty Tim Collins and 20-year-old middle infielder Tyler Pastornicky is quite impressive. Collins, in particular, may have a very promising future working out of the bullpen. And, the Braves have a lot of faith in what Pastornicky could do at the next level at shortstop or second base.
Share Collins was a pitcher I scouted extensively in 2009, and despite his diminutive 5-foot-7 frame the southpaw shows outstanding plus stuff and works from a very deceptive delivery. Collins comes almost right over the top and gets great downhill plane despite his distinct lack of height. There’s a lot of effort in his delivery and arms and legs flying at the hitter, but his arm works well and comes through clean. Collins works at 91-93 mph, and I’ve had him as high as 94-95 mph when he wants to reach for it. He’s still just 20 and has a slight build, so there is some belief that he could add a tick more velocity.
His fastball consistently misses bats, which of course is a real rarity from the left side. That is partially due to his plus velocity and deception, but also because of the hitters’ respect for his outstanding plus curveball. Collins has a true hammer, 12-6 hook that he throws at 75-78 mph. He shows the ability to spot it in the strike zone and also bounce it when he needs to. Collins also occasionally mixes in a fringy changeup. If he can master that he’ll be an even more dangerous lefty setup option. But because of the nature of his downer curveball he has been pretty equally dominant against lefties and righties in his minor league career, consistently putting up staggering strikeout numbers out of the ‘pen.
For the season in Double-A, Collins has posted a 2.51 ERA in 35 appearances, striking out 73 in 43 innings of work. And, given his two-plus-pitch arsenal and improving command, those strikeouts figure to carry over at the next level. I’d safely project him as a power lefty arm that can work in a setup role for a contending club. If not for his size, he’d be more likely to get his due as a prospect.
Pastornicky, on the other hand, may not have as exciting a skill set as Collins, but has value as a very solid middle infield prospect. A fifth-round pick in 2008, Pastornicky has shown steady improvement offensively and has experienced a spike in power numbers here in 2010. He has six home runs in the Florida State League after hitting just two total in the previous two seasons. The righty-swinging infielder has the look of a versatile middle infielder at the next level, possessing a steady glove and excellent speed on the bases.
He already has 24 steals in 2010, and the way his bat has come along, he is beginning to remind some scouts of David Eckstein. And for once that comparison actually seems more like reality than cliche. Pastornicky is a bit more gifted in the physical department, including raw power, speed, and arm but the potential big league profile is very similar.
Frankie Piliere spent the last three seasons working as a scout, most recently in the professional scouting department for the Texas Rangers in 2009. He now serves as the National Baseball Analyst here at FanHouse.
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:46 pm
Marky mark
Woody Woodward
July 14th, 2010
10:47 pm
Is Esco Latin or Black? What about Felipe Alou?
Doc Holiday
July 14th, 2010
10:47 pm
Nate McLouth should be the next to be gone and I would be very happy. I think we can do very well with Diaz/Cabrera/JH/ Blanco/Hinske/Infante………….what the hell do we need a guy hitting .175 or whatever he is hitting, for???????? I would trade him for some prospect in no time and let blanco finish the season in atlanta.
Woody Woodward
July 14th, 2010
10:48 pm
A 5′7″ pitcher?!?! The trade was about height! We need more short guys!
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
10:49 pm
Thanks for that Ryan…that’s actually pretty encouraging about the 2 minor leaguers
Brave4life-1995 all over again??
July 14th, 2010
10:49 pm
Woody Woodward
Kris Medlen
Woody Woodward
July 14th, 2010
10:49 pm
Doc–don’t hold your breath. I think they are going to hang onto McLouth.
BravesFanChris25
July 14th, 2010
10:49 pm
I maybe part of the minority here, but I’d prefer NOT to trade Melky. I think Melky helps the team chemistry and he’s started to heat up offensively. I know he’s had some bad at bats and what not, but he’s a very versatile player who can play all OF in a pinch. A perfect 4th OF. I would not trade him unless the trade is worth it.