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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,249 comments Add your comment
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
7:52 pm
I think DOB was speaking from the heart, and not from the brain, today with his Twitter post that this was one of Wren’s best trades ever.
Can’t be better than landing Infante and Ohman from the Cubs in 2007 for Ascaino, or Jair Jurrgens from Detroit for Renteria.
I mean, it could be if the team ends up with the trophy, but there’s a lot of underlying numbers about Gonzalez that are troublesome, especially the terrible numbers vs. lefties. Hopefully we’re gonna platoon him with Infante.
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
This is the same, last years team MVP, Yunel Escobar, right? The guy would was killing with RISP? Just checkin…
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
So, Steve, you don’t think that fact that every single player has talked about team chemistry and how well they get along being such an importance aspect of the team means anything? Come on, dude. You have played enough sports and are in a profession that relies on teammwork. Of course it is important. Important as say getting an Albert Pujols? No, of course not. But, Manny Ramirez was a GREAT player, and the Sox finally got to the point that the negatives outweighed the positives.
Like the Braves player said, you can overlook some of the other stuff when the player is batting .300. But 0 HRs and 19 RBIs out of your SS to go along with his attitude, adverse affect on the clubhouse, and apparent lack of effort? Obviously, the Braves got to the point where they thought the overall negatives outweighed the positives. Plain and simple. Can Escobar go on and be an all-star? Sure. Doesn’t mean he was going to do it an the ATL and that it was necessarily a bad trade.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
OH Steve: if you and 23 other people are busting your tails for a common goal and one guy wants to march to the subversive beat of his own conga drum for no earthly reason other than to piss his teammates and manager off, you’d be happy he’s gone too.
Ghost of Rowland Office
July 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
And so begins the removal of Bobby’s genital warts, first Escobar, Next! McLouse!
Jake W.
July 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
I could give two sh!ts about touchy-feely clubhouse chemistry bullcrap, Frankie. Sure, it’s nice. You want your guys to like each other. But show me a “professional” baseball player is one that can’t produce when he only likes 23 out of the other 24 guys on the team, then you’ve shown me a guy that’s got just as many head problems as Yunel.
Just win, baby.
Couldn’t agree more. The biggest cure to clubhouse chemistry is winning. We had a bunch of nice guys in 2008 but losing has a way of making the locker room a not so great place. The braves were doing fine and from the outlook of things on my tv they weren’t letting any real or percieved Escobar “attitude” get in their way. If that clubhouse is that fragile and they are going to let one man rain on their parade and turn their smiles upside down I seriously wonder about the toughness of this team.
Rob from SC
July 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
Steve from OH
You know we don’t always agree, but I have always been a big Escobar guy. If his teamates didn’t feel he was giving 100% (especially after watching Glaus, Heyward, Prado play injured) he needed to go. He wasn’t giving us anything. This was a matter of when not if
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
7:54 pm
And I obviously have not improved my overall typing and/or proof-reading skills either.
Frankie Wren
July 14th, 2010
7:54 pm
Steve,
Just win baby, I agree. Gonzalez has been there. Starting shortstop on a World Championship team around the same age as Yunel currently is.
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
7:55 pm
Not true, the Sox were winning when they traded Manny. Now, for the record, I am not comparing Escobar with the Manny that was pushing 65 year old ticket folk to the ground, but simply using it to make a point.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
7:55 pm
MiaBchBravesFan–
Your mental picture of me was pretty much spot on, BTW.
Wish there was a game tonight…can’t wait for tomorrow!!
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
7:56 pm
o, Steve, you don’t think that fact that every single player has talked about team chemistry and how well they get along being such an importance aspect of the team means anything?
I think the team chemistry was already pretty good even with Escobar. And, we have the best record in baseball since April 30, and we are one the top teams record-wise in the bigs since the All-Star break last year….even with Escobar.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
7:57 pm
Well, lord, I didn’t know the last 3 starters of the series against the Brewers were lefties!
Randy Wolf? Blelgth…
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
July 14th, 2010
7:57 pm
But even if that happens, we still have Alex Gonzalez. Steve from OH
Hey man, give it up. Haven’t you heard,the guy has 17 homeruns. Just because the guy historically plays only about 60% percent of the second half games, …..would not take a walk if you pointed a gun at him,…. yada yada yada…. hell man, 17 homeruns
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
7:58 pm
Chipper generally speaking gives about the same amount of effort that Yunel does, And he’s having a downward trend in his career….why hasn’t he been unloaded? It’s all about perspective and different points of view. Not to mention he is being way overpaid for the production he has given the Braves in the 3-spot.
TennesseePaul
July 14th, 2010
7:58 pm
The blog will need a new whipping boy. Any guesses as to who that will likely be.
I will continue whipping Melky BR Cabrera. Fairly certain Lew will retain rights to McLouth. Scoots though might take the new man on the roster…
It’s all good though, Jo-Jo is gone and that relieves the pitching of a whipping boy… until Reslop comes back.
Jake W.
July 14th, 2010
7:58 pm
Not true, the Sox were winning when they traded Manny. Now, for the record, I am not comparing Escobar with the Manny that was pushing 65 year old ticket folk to the ground, but simply using it to make a point. -JasonInFL
The Sox are not stupid, notice they traded Manny after the two World Series rings and not before. They didn’t put their foot down till they absolutely had to and when they figured that Manny was probably on the downside of his career, not the upside. Big difference in that situation and this one.
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
7:58 pm
Yunel is living proof of what 51 years of totalitarianism and social mediocrity can do to a human soul.
Ever dropped down around Little Havana and spouted off that little tidbit?
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
7:58 pm
Oh, and the Braves have been winning plenty lately…and a lot of the players had tired of Yunel’s ‘tude. So, winning obviously doesn’t cure all ills. Again, I actually like Yunel and think he will rebound. But, to say that chemistry, atmosphere, camaraderie, etc don’t matter at all makes no sense to me…whatsoever.
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
7:59 pm
Its a good thing that RH Alex Gonzalez, can’t hit lefties like the rest of the Braves. What is it .217 against lefties vs Escobar’s .270?
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:00 pm
“How can (the Braves) want to get rid of a guy so bad and then end up getting a shortstop and two good prospects like that in return,” one American League scout questioned Wednesday afternoon.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:00 pm
So, Steve, you don’t think that fact that every single player has talked about team chemistry and how well they get along being such an importance aspect of the team means anything? Come on, dude. You have played enough sports and are in a profession that relies on teammwork.
Absolutely. Like I said, I think clubhouse chemistry is great. But I’d rather win than like everyone I’m playing with. I hated the guy who played wing on the line I centered in junior hockey. But he scored, man. And we won. And everyone was happy. Besides, haven’t the Braves been talking about how great the clubhouse chemistry has been? I don’t discount clubhouse chemistry, but I do think it’s overrated. I mean, how bad did Yunel really piss those guys off? We have the best record in the league. And he’s playing at his absolute worst.
I’d rather work with a nurse who I hated but was competent than a dummy who kills patients.
Just win (and don’t kill your patients), baby!
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
8:00 pm
The move has made the Braves even weaker against left-handed pitchers, if the Brewers really have 3 lefties going, this could be an ominous start to the 2nd half of the season.
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
8:01 pm
There’s just so many angles you could look at this deal…and they’re all correct.
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
8:02 pm
Scoots though might take the new man on the roster…
Nah. I like to give Melky a little “whap!” every once in a while, but, that’s more from boredom than anything else. Not really a whipping-boy kind of guy.
But I’ll keep a spot open on the 40-man, just in case.
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:02 pm
I disagree on the Sox. I think if Manny would have, in succession, faked an injury, refuse to play in a pivotal game against the Yanks, got in a fight with Youk, and attacked team personnel in between WS victories, they would have done the same thing. It just so happens that things got to the breaking point after they won 2 WS.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
8:02 pm
Bruce–
I hope my post to you didn’t sound snooty…not so sure I worded that very well…Sorry ’bout that!
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
8:03 pm
I’ll bet talks began on Esocbar right after we drafted Lipka and Simmons last month. Two potential shortstops and Gonzalez will serve as the bridge.
Drastic Measures
July 14th, 2010
8:03 pm
I’m not a Yunel fan and have been prepared for his departure, but I seriously did not expect him to be traded mid-season. I’m not sure if Gonzales is a good pickup or not, but this I’m pretty sure of after today.
Escobar was a potential, if not current, problem in the clubhouse. Had not that been the case, I don’t think the Braves would have been so eager to trade him for Gonzalez. I think Escobar could have brought a better package in the offseason. But since the Braves could make a deal for a shortstop, they pulled the trigger. It’s now become evident that Escobar’s effort and motivation were being questioned by teammates. That can create problems in any clubhouse when players are questioning another players efforts.
Seems like Escobar’s fate has been sealed for a few weeks now.
Supes
July 14th, 2010
8:03 pm
Steve from OH,
I get the sarcasm but you are acting like Alex Gonzalez will be here the next 8 years! He’s a 2 year STOP GAP type player for the Braves. Actually 1 full season (2011) and whatever is left of this year.
Braves are loaded now with SS in the minors if one pans out (out of all of them) nobody will care that Alex Gonzalez had to be a Brave for a year and half.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:03 pm
Just win baby, I agree. Gonzalez has been there. Starting shortstop on a World Championship team around the same age as Yunel currently is.
Yep, we just got what every WS-winning team needs–a .696 OPS SS!
And 33 is totally the new 27.
Sorry, I really don’t mean to be cantankerous right now. I’m actually a pretty nice person. I’m just a little upset we traded an extremely talented SS who is entering his prime for a SS with a rather bad offensive track record.
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
8:04 pm
MFin,
You think the BA is bad vs. lefties? Check the OBP (.234)
Ouch.
CajunStorm
July 14th, 2010
8:05 pm
Mike Minor, Resop, and pay half of Kawakami’s salary for Willingham and let’s kick the Yankees Azzes in the WS!! Couldn’t be a better ending for Bobby and Chipper.
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
8:05 pm
Braves vs lefties:
A Gon – .217ish
Glaus – .244
Chipper – .241
McCann – .233
Heyward – .217
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:05 pm
Steve, well, yeah…I concur. But, the point is, Yunel was apparently the only negative on the team chemistry and wasn’t producing. In this case (short term), he was like your incompetent nurse…
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:06 pm
Bobby’s Cox–yeah, I know that Esco probably did have to go if everyone hated him. I guess I’m just ticked because that’s how it had to be. I’m really sad it ended this way with Esco. I was really looking forward to seeing him play the next few years.
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
8:07 pm
All these Minor rumors….
As mediocre as we are against lefties it would be nice if we could actually trot one out every five days ourselves.
Keep him.
NO MORE BOBBY
July 14th, 2010
8:07 pm
Esco went from being a player with fire (which I supported him over past two seasons) to a guy that seemed as if his head was anywhere but in the game. Looked really distant from rest of team. If he was pulling a Manny then he got his wish.
Couch Tater
July 14th, 2010
8:07 pm
.238, arbitration & Wasserman Media Group.= Alex
Welcome, Alex!
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:07 pm
Braves are loaded now with SS in the minors if one pans out (out of all of them) nobody will care that Alex Gonzalez had to be a Brave for a year and half.
I mean, I might when Yunel becomes a perennial .820 OPS player with his usual stellar D while we’re waiting for Matt Lipka to get out of hi-A ball and Eduard Salcedo to learn 3B.
billy (TBFKB)
July 14th, 2010
8:08 pm
This is a deal that on the outside looking in you may say WTF. However, as many people have stated the hustle and chemistry are important. I was an Escobar fan but this trade has told me his ego and personality was bigger than his talent because I trust the front office. The Braves have always put chemistry ahead of almost anything. Just another classic example. As Lew noted, getting one your thumper and 1st half RBI guy hurt by careless and unfocused play was the final nail.
I always thought Escobar would rise to be the cream of NL short-stops. Which brings me to another point about talent. Braves scouts are arguably the best in the game. If they thought Yunel was going to be a premiere short stop in this league he’d still be on the team.
My last thought is of the term….loaded… absolutely loaded with pitching. How many teams can say that. If the Braves wanted to they could land any player…..and I mean any player in baseball it wanted with the talent they have in the minors. thats saying something….at least in my humble and really unknowable opinion.
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:08 pm
Now, with my rambling about making a point that camaraderie does matter, I think the Braves would have gotten a heck of a lot more value at the end of last year as well as waiting until the offseason. If anything, I expected the Braves to get a quality OF if they were going to trade Esco. But, they aren’t comfortable with Infante as an everyday SS, so…
I would still like to see us get an OF…no idea who that would be, but I would like one. If BJ is available, take a chance? Dude still has 30/30 type talent.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:09 pm
I guess part of my beef is that I think we really sold low on him. I think the return could’ve been a LOT bigger in the offseason.
Ok, I’m done. Sorry to waste your time with my vent.
Rob from SC
July 14th, 2010
8:09 pm
Steve from OH
Attitude will keep Escobar from reaching his potential.
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
8:09 pm
I find it hard to believe we’re gonna trade Minor. He’s a lefty (no lefty starters on our team) and our closest prospect to being ML ready. Especially trading him for Willingham, and not a bigger bat. Close to ML-ready, left-handed pitchers are the type of guys that teams want for big name stars.
And, trading him in a package with KK where we would have NO DEPTH in our starting pitching department? Bogus trade proposal.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
I’m just a little upset we traded an extremely talented SS who is entering his prime for a SS with a rather bad offensive track record
I’ve tried all day to express my feelings towards this trade, but I think you summed it up perfectly with that little statement, Steve.
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
Braves are loaded now with SS in the minors if one pans out (out of all of them) nobody will care that Alex Gonzalez had to be a Brave for a year and half.
Yeah, Supes, but goshamighty, the chances of any SS in the system being ready in 18 months is awfully optimistic. Salcedo appears have the most upside (even if he doesn’t grow out of the position), and he’d have to go through three levels. The other kids, the ones I’ve seen anyway, haven’t struck me much.
Jake W.
July 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
I disagree on the Sox. I think if Manny would have, in succession, faked an injury, refuse to play in a pivotal game against the Yanks, got in a fight with Youk, and attacked team personnel in between WS victories, they would have done the same thing. It just so happens that things got to the breaking point after they won 2 WS.
Like I said, you are comparing two completely different situations. Escobar has done nowhere near none of that stuff. If Escobar had done any of that stuff I would have said trade him, but just having a pouty face and an “attitude” doesn’t seem like enough to give up on a guy with such high upside. Manny and Escobar are not comparable at this point.
Frankie Wren
July 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
Yeah man it is sad and nobody should be doing cartwheels whatever your stance on this trade is. Anytime you see a guy who has talent and ability not maximized, you feel cheated. Escobar could be a guy who will be a allstar the next 5 years or out of the league man. 6-5 pickem.
bruce
July 14th, 2010
8:11 pm
McFann — did not notice anything negative in your comments to me. You were nice and generous as always. I often post and then run which is not good nor friendly, but it happens. Glad you are going to get a t-shirt…. maybe a patch too? you could add “MVP” under the number on the back. best wishes.
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:12 pm
Steve, that’s part of what this blog is for…to vent! I certainly agree on the return…I wish the Braves would have had the foresight that Yunel wasn’t going to turn his ‘tude around and sold high on him at the end of last year.
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
8:12 pm
Attitude didn’t keep Escobar from a career year last year, and he ended up being the Braves offensive MVP last year. People like to forget how good he was last year.
He’s slumping this year. That is all. He has been pretty darn good every other year. I was looking forward to his torried 2nd half. Instead we get to look forward to a ice cold 2nd half for A Gon.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:13 pm
Attitude will keep Escobar from reaching his potential.
I really don’t see how it will. But even if it does, he still hit .299 and OPSed .812 last year (JUST last year!) with that attitude.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:13 pm
I think we oughta take a roll of all the people saying attitude will keep Esco from reaching his potential and then show it to ‘em when they’re calling this Tex Trade® v. 2.0 when Esco is turning into an all-star caliber SS in Toronto.
Where’s Random when you need him?
(Not directed at you Rob; I know you’ll remember you said it. Others won’t. And I’ve seen a lot of people say it.)
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:13 pm
Jake W, agreed. But, I was “refuting” your point that the Sox put up with Manny until they won 2 WS. I was stating that the really bad stuff that broke the camel’s back happened after that. And, I am on record as saying that Esco’s situation is dissimilar from Manny’s. I was making a point that there can be a point where the negatives outweigh the positives.
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:14 pm
And I normally admit that I was wrong…like the whole Troy Glaus is done thing…
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
July 14th, 2010
8:14 pm
If Escobar had done any of that stuff I would have said trade him, but just having a pouty face and an “attitude” doesn’t seem like enough to give up on a guy with such high upside.
Should’a found him a good plastic surgeon.
westgadave
July 14th, 2010
8:15 pm
I know DOB was traveling today–but did the damn plane get lost or what….would sure like his insight on the trade.
Tomas
July 14th, 2010
8:16 pm
Braves remaining trade candidates…….
- RHP Chris Resop
- OF Melky Cabrera
- OF Nate Mclouth
- RHP Stephen Marek
- RHP James Parr
- RHP Todd Redmond
By any chance would this guys bring us Corey Hart and Marlon Byrd?
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
8:16 pm
Bruce I often post and then run which is not good nor friendly, but it happens.
Oh, yeah, you were fine! I do it all the time, too. You’re not being unfriendly, because you always come back and respond to the other Blogger with whom you were talking.
I don’t know…I just thought I sounded…bleh, not sure what word I’m looking for, but thanks for being so nice!
you could add “MVP” under the number on the back.
That’d be sweet!
best wishes.
Thank you! Same to you!
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:17 pm
You’re forgetting the time difference westgadave
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:17 pm
Since it’s tough to pick up sarcasm on here, I should note I’m joking
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:17 pm
Braves remaining trade candidates…….
That’s just a list of soso players or wash ups
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
8:18 pm
I still say Melky/McLouth, Marek and Randall Delgado could bring you Marlon Byrd… especially if Chipper’s money gets freed up.
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
8:19 pm
True Steve, me too. Feel exactly the same way. And, I think he could’ve gotten us a bigger bat, too. I would rather have traded him even for a Marlon Byrd. Our offense has flowed this year because of guys getting on base. Image all the doubles with Byrd & Prado, etc… Hopefully now our offense isn’t more like the wait for the 3-run dinger like it’s been in the past. Our chemistry was good regardless.
It’s definitely a wait and see type of trade, and Gonzalez is still pretty solid and has the experience. Oy, I could type forever….
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:20 pm
The Braves’ real trade candidates are:
Randall Delgado
Christian Bethancourt
Robinson Lopez
Steve Marek
Nate McLouth (doubtful)
Melky Cabrera (please, Frank, do it for the statheads!)
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
8:20 pm
Pameeeeee I know she always want doubles and darned if that is not what he hit.LOL
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
8:20 pm
Enter your comments here
Jake W.
July 14th, 2010
8:21 pm
JasonInFL
I get what you are trying to say but my point was that Manny never was a perfect citizen and there were always questions about how he played the game, hence all the Manny being Manny stuff. The Red Sox put up with all that stuff because Manny was producing and helping them win. They didn’t trade him until they absolutely had to, when he did all the stuff you listed. But the lack of focus, hustle, and many other concerns regarding Manny were there before any of that other stuff happened but they tolerated it because he was helping them win. They only traded him because after all that stuff happened in 08 I believe they really had no choice. I’m saying I feel that this was not the case about Escobar. I do not believe that they absolutely had to trade him.
westgadave
July 14th, 2010
8:21 pm
No–Im taking time diff into acct–its about 520 west coast time and is only a 5 hour flight or so back from Lala land
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
8:22 pm
Should’a found him a good plastic surgeon.
Coulda Botox-ed a grin on his face, and some of the dumb sumbees here would have LOVED that dude, LOL.
What I really am going to hate, much worse than the trade itself, is the incessant references to it that will surface every time Gonzalez doesn’t make an out or actually gets a throw to 1B in time. They’re coming, and you know it. Thousands of them, maybe. Plenty here will always want to rake old Yuni, and Toronto (and a whole different league) isn’t far enough away to forestall it.
Just be warned.
MFin04
July 14th, 2010
8:22 pm
Homers: Glaus 14, Heyward 11, McCann/Prado 10.
If A-Gon can put up 12-14 homers with the Braves in the 2nd half, I can see this trade paying dividends in the short run, but that’s a pretty big IF….
Drastic Measures
July 14th, 2010
8:22 pm
“I could give two sh!ts about touchy-feely clubhouse chemistry bullcrap, Frankie. Sure, it’s nice. You want your guys to like each other. But show me a “professional” baseball player is one that can’t produce when he only likes 23 out of the other 24 guys on the team, then you’ve shown me a guy that’s got just as many head problems as Yunel.
Just win, baby.”
Lets see….. seems like many in the Braves clubhouse don’t subscribe to your philosophy, Steve. 24 guys hustling and giving it all they got and 1 guy whose effort is being questioned. I know that one guy (Escobar) is right and the other 24 are wrong!
The “this guys talent is so good we are going to give him a pass. He doesn’t have to hustle. We will lick his boots and honor his talent”…..attitude is for fans, owners and management who are driven by success at all cost. But they miss the boat on this. The only problem is that the other 24 players DO care and DON’T want to give him a pass. Because of that, you AREN’T going to have success because it takes more than this guy to make it work.
The bottom line is that it seems the clubhouse is going to support this move even if the Esco fans aren’t. But hey, it’s only the players. The real experts on this matter are the people on this blog.
westgadave
July 14th, 2010
8:24 pm
The guy from the AJC who posted fro him this afternoon said he was in the air at about 1-130 our time this afternoon—I think his plane was hijacked and we are going to see DOB posing with Fidel on the 11 pm news
.591
July 14th, 2010
8:24 pm
Tender moment alert:
Watching the AAA All Star game on MLB TV. They showed Erik Kratz, catcher for the Indy Indians (Pittsburgh farm club,) getting the call-up word from the Mgr. He was asked, ‘…you wanna play another inning or go to the big leagues kid?’
He’s gone to call his wife with the good news.
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
8:24 pm
If there was a poll on this site asking if we liked or disliked the trade…I wouldn’t vote. I’m leaning towards no, but I still don’t know. It’s driving me crazy.
bp
July 14th, 2010
8:25 pm
Great Move.
MiaBchBravesFan
July 14th, 2010
8:25 pm
ncscoots: just so happens that 99.9% of Little Havana denizens agree with the damage the Castro regime has caused, so yeah, I have shared that little tidbit with my countryfolk.
Stick to whatcha know, big guy.
richbrave
July 14th, 2010
8:25 pm
AAA All-Star game on for anyone interested.
Boatdoc
July 14th, 2010
8:27 pm
I wrote this over on the “Bobby Remembers George” blog, but since I see even more back-seat amature general-managing over here it pertains here as well:
I feel truly sorry for people for whom “winning it all” can be the only measure of “success”. Many times back in the ’70s I sat in the stands at old Atlanta-Fulton County with less than 1,000 fans watching the Braves sometimes win, but more often lose, on the way to losing 100 games in a season.
Sure winning the World Series is the ultimate thrill in Major League Baseball – but I remember Sid Bream beating Barry Bonds’ anemic throw and winning the ‘92 NLCS as much as Marquis Grissom catching that final fly ball in ‘95. I remember the thrill of starting the ‘82 season (Managed by Joe Torre – remember, Greybeards?) with a 13 game winning streak and going on to win the Western Division (remember back when there were only 2 divisions and the Braves were inexplicably in the same division as the Dodgers, Giants, etc – while St. Louis and Chicago were in the East?) I remember watching young versions of Glavine and Gant and Justice getting hot and winning enough games in ‘91 so that by summer you were thinking “hey…. we might win the division!” Then we did – and won the National League as well – then played one of the most superb World Series in history, going into the 10th inning of the 7th game tied 0-0.
I agonized when Bobby put in Charlie Leibrandt in relief in game 6 – just before Kirby Puckett hit his most famous home run. I agonized again in game 7 when Chuck Knoblauch faked out Lonnie Smith at second base when Terry Pendleton hit a screaming double off the Metrodome wall – preventing Skates from scoring what would have been the winning run, because Smoltz and Stanton and Pena had been as untouchable as Black Jack Morris… through nine.
But through each of those 14 years of divisional dominance the part of me was THRILLED that remembered how godawful BAD the Braves had been back when Phil Niekro was pouring his heart and soul into the team and Chief Nokahoma’s pregame prayers to the Big Chief in the Sky were so often unanswered.
The JOURNEY is at least as importance as the destination, and if you’re a Braves fan and you’re not enjoying the trip they’re taking you RIGHT NOW… I truly pity you.
DJ from H-Co
July 14th, 2010
8:27 pm
People were all trying to encourage him and lift him up to no avail. Negative breeds negative and he tuned out all of the positive affirmation. I hope he succeeds in Toronto.
RHR
July 14th, 2010
8:27 pm
I hope Votto gets traded to the cubs.
.591
July 14th, 2010
8:28 pm
westgadave – I can tell ya, DOB is most likely overjoyed at the trade. He won’t say it (staying “professional” and all,) but I don’t think he was a fan of Esco in the least bit. Joe Simpson is prolly the happiest.
brian
July 14th, 2010
8:28 pm
for those that are wondering what the price tag is for Corey Hart – think big. They asked for Madison Bumgardner (top young lefty SP for the Giants) or Jonathan Sanchez. They would be looking for Medlen and Delgado or something like that. Marlon Byrd would be a better fit.
THe ESPN rumor mill article.
We mentioned last week that Milwaukee Brewers outfielder Corey Hart has had a strong season and is drawing trade interest from more than one club. It might actually be an ideal time to deal the slugger, from Milwaukee’s standpoint, because it’s certainly a sell-high scenario.
Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle reportd via Twitter that the Giants have asked for Jonathan Sanchez or Madison Bumgarner in exchange for Hart, but GM Brian Sabean is not eager to trade either pitcher.
Hart is not a free agent until after 2011, so the price may be steep.
Hart knows he is on the block but told USA Today that he has no desire to move. “It’s tough,” Hart says. “I’ve been in Milwaukee, the organization, for 10 years, so I want to stay. I told them that. But I know the rumors are out there. I’m hearing two or three a day. I just try not to think about it.”
Brewers GM Doug Melvin said Tuesday that he was not close to any deal.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:28 pm
Bobby’s – There’s a poll on Bradley’s blog. Single and homerun have about 40% each, whiff has about 20%
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2010/07/14/addition-by-subtraction-the-braves-trade-yunel-escoba/?cxntfid=blogs_mark_bradley_blog
richbrave
July 14th, 2010
8:29 pm
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
Braves are loaded now with SS in the minors if one pans out (out of all of them) nobody will care that Alex Gonzalez had to be a Brave for a year and half.
Yeah, Supes, but goshamighty, the chances of any SS in the system being ready in 18 months is awfully optimistic. Salcedo appears have the most upside (even if he doesn’t grow out of the position), and he’d have to go through three levels. The other kids, the ones I’ve seen anyway, haven’t struck me much.
SALCEDO’s at .222 in ROME. Not much upside yet. He has progressed from the DSL however.
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:30 pm
Hey, it had to be a good trade…Buster Olney says so!
Dumbfound
July 14th, 2010
8:30 pm
I’ve been reading all day long the comments about why this was a bad trade. Oh really !?! He who says this was not a good trade don’t know jack about baseball ! I’m a woman and I know more than some of you men ! 0 h!omeruns ! 0 ! Alex Gonzalez 17 homeruns ! What makes you think Yunel was going to do anything ! Huh !?! And for those of you that said Gonzalez is not going to help us in the playoffs, Go do your homework and look up Boston playoff run in 2004 and see who was in their lineup helping them to that Championship year ! When you get that, Come back here and tell me the name that Boston said that help them to win it all ! Also look up the Florida Marlins 2003 Championship and tell me again who name that you see in the mix helping them to win it all ! And last but not least the names i have taken down, Braves4life, Lew, Greg, Tomawakin, and many more. When Alex starts raking and helping the Braves to the division title, to the playoffs, Don’t come on here talking about how great Alex and Wren are !! We and they don’t need your turncoat support ! Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frankie Wren
July 14th, 2010
8:30 pm
Fair or not, thinking Yunel’s bonehead play on that toss to Glaus was the last straw for top brass. That same scenario could have played out next month or the month after. They probably don’t have to worry about Gonzalez’s approach to the game and something similar happening.
Steve from OH
July 14th, 2010
8:30 pm
As much as I hate responding to a moniker that just showed up right after I make a statement that doesn’t mesh with the old-timer’s view of baseball, I’ll bite.
It’s not The “this guys talent is so good we are going to give him a pass. He doesn’t have to hustle. We will lick his boots and honor his talent” at all. Far from it. It’s putting your best team on the field. And that team includes Yunel Escobar, not Alex Gonzalez.
Have the Braves’ actions before the trade suggested any form of “boot-licking” toward Yunel to you? At all? Gimme a break. Treat ‘em just like every other player, and if he goes out and does his job (which he did), then if he’s got problems with someone else in the clubhouse, that’s their problem.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
July 14th, 2010
8:30 pm
If it wasn’t for this new guy’s freakishly low OBP, I’d ask if he could bat cleanup…
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:31 pm
RHR, lol. Another great post.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:31 pm
My numbers were way off….according to Bradley’s poll, here’s what AJC readers think of the trade:
Single – 48%
Homerun – 43%
Whiff – 9%
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
8:32 pm
“I could give two sh!ts about touchy-feely clubhouse chemistry bullcrap”
Obviously, we’re diametrically opposed on this, but I am curious. Did you see the Buster Olney anecdote mentioned a couple of boards ago? Chemistry impacts on-field play in myriad ways.
jeffrescobar d :|
July 14th, 2010
8:32 pm
Yeah, I’m sure Gonzalez smiles a lot more.
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
8:32 pm
But hey, it’s only the players. The real experts on this matter are the people on this blog.
Well, let’s see, we’ve had at least one former scout, at least a couple of former minor leaguers, a number of former Division I college players, and at least one former major leaguer (that I know for a fact) post here. They all idiots, too?
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
July 14th, 2010
8:32 pm
If there was a poll on this site asking if we liked or disliked the trade…I wouldn’t vote. I’m leaning towards no, but I still don’t know. It’s driving me crazy.
There is on one of these blogs. Last I saw, over 300 votes, 82% : good deal ……………..
JasonInFL
July 14th, 2010
8:33 pm
“Treat ‘em just like every other player, and if he goes out and does his job (which he did)…”
Steve, I guess that’s where we differ the most. I don’t think he did go out and do his job on a daily basis and he certainly wasn’t producing.
scoots looks like a dummy
July 14th, 2010
8:33 pm
“MiaBchBravesFan
July 14th, 2010
8:25 pm
ncscoots: just so happens that 99.9% of Little Havana denizens agree with the damage the Castro regime has caused, so yeah, I have shared that little tidbit with my countryfolk.
Stick to whatcha know, big guy.”
ncscoots….. you seem like a smart guy. Be smart enough to admit you look like a freakin idiot on this one! Unless you’re Cuban or Cuban-American, you don’t have a leg to stand on.
Bartholomew (Bat) Masterson
July 14th, 2010
8:33 pm
That should be , over 3000 votes