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2,249 comments Add your comment
Dan
July 14th, 2010
3:34 pm
Great. A guy with an on-base percentage under .300.
Piedmont Blues
July 14th, 2010
3:34 pm
I agree with the commenter who said Gonzalez might be a cross between Rafael Belliard and Jeff Blauser — makes the routine plays, has some pop. The low OBP worries me, but then again, if he’s hitting 7th or 8th it won’t kill you. Plus, the $2.5 million contract option for 2011 is reassuring because I’ll bet Yunel would get at least that much if not more in arb next year.
Over/under on HR? Turner Field will sap some of that power, so I’ll go with 7 HR; another 18-20 2B would be sweet, however.
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
3:35 pm
If you are going to miss him that bad, buy a Blue Jays hat and a cable package and watch him the rest of the year! Either that or shut up and pull for Gonzo to help the Braves win.
What makes you think the two things are exclusive? You think those of us who don’t like the trade are going to turn into Mets’ fans or something? Or is it that it’s OK to voice an opinion, as long as it agrees with yours?
You want to make a logical point as to the value of the trade (and Gone Viral has done some of that today, even if we disagree), good enough. You want to make the value of the trade dependent on bashing the player traded, sorry, that cuts no ice. That’s just the Bill Shanks coming out in folks, and doesn’t deserve respect.
TnBrian
July 14th, 2010
3:35 pm
Everybody has their thoughts on this trade as seen by the 9 pages already on a blog posted not that long ago. LOL!
Well, I really don’t give a crap Yunel is gone. For me, his little smirk like, “Aww well, whatever” kind of attitude after he flipped a bad throw to Glaus and almost had his hand decapitated was it for me. You know, when he walked back to his position after the trainers had checked on Glaus?
Gonzalez is a very good SS from whatever I’ve read on him. 17 HR didn’t do us a bit of good, but if he can bring some of that over to Atlanta and play good SS than it’s a huge win for the Braves.
ThePriceisWrongBitch
July 14th, 2010
3:35 pm
All those saying that we could have gotten more for Yunel are out of your minds…
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
3:36 pm
More than anything else, I want to thank the Braves for finding a way to make an off-day exciting.
Piedmont Blues
July 14th, 2010
3:36 pm
Of course, if the next move is for Corey Hart, then I am worried. Two awful OBP guys would be like, oh, lose a Frenchy, gain two?
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
3:36 pm
When’s the last time Yunel turned on a pitch? A few to center, but mostly everything in the air to RF. His swing is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW.
Braves Grrrl
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
Just read that article about Escobar and Pena for the first time. Definitely gave me a lump in my throat. Hate to see him go, but I hope he’ll flourish there. Going to take a while to get used to this one . . .
Billy Bob
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
Lighten up sportsmandh – Roy Hobbs has the same right as you to voice his opinion… which actually made good sense. So stop acting like a teabagger shouting down others who have the right to voice their opinions.
shmoe
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
Roy Hobbs,
Sure man, I don’t get it. Your evidence is irrefutable. Gonzalez surely closes his eyes when he swings. Need I remind you of Yunel’s AVG, OBP, SLG, AVG RISP? It’s cool though, think what you want. I’m convinced its an upgrade.
Lew
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
No one expects 35 HR from Gonzalez this second half (or for the year). But that 6 you posted as an over under would surpass Yunel’s first half total by six.
I just don’t see such immediate improvement from a player who is so obviously unhappy as Yunel is. Is he really a clubhouse cancer? I truly don’t know- wasn’t there in the clubhouse to see. However, from his reactions in public to situations and those of his teammates, I’d say it’s a pretty good probability that there were, indeed, issues at play there. Now they’re gone.
WE are in first place despite Yunel’s early numbers. Anything AG can provide BETTER than them (which honestly shouldn’t be a stretch – not as if they’re sky high goals there to match- will almost certainly help us maintain – at the very least.
Long term, with all the middle infield acquisitions in the draft and through other means, I’d say the writing was on the wall that Ynel was NOT viewed as a long term answer – no matter his talent or clubhouse cameraderie.
Doesn’t much matter whether you agree or disagree with this stance. SApparently it was their stance and that’s all that matters in thissituation.
Woill Yunel shine elsewhere? Who knows. Frenchy didn’t. Will AG shine as a Brave? Again, who knows. Apparently the Braves deemed it worth inding out and that’s the bottom line.
Keep in mind that there was just a much attendant griping, bitching, moaning and cacaphony bout the pick ups of Glaus, Hinske, Melky and everyone else we’ve gotten in recent years from JJ for Renteria and beyond. Most of these deals have played out quite in our favor. Give this a chance. You relly have no freaking choice now, do you?
1135203 THE FAN
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
From Baseball Prospectus’ Kevein Goldstein, July 14, 2010:
The trade market is heating up—the deadline just over two weeks away—and we’ve already looked at the prospects with the highest trade values. But three squads that are enjoying success in the majors—the Atlanta Braves, Chicago White Sox and St. Louis Cardinals—have very little on the farm to help swing a deal. This is obviously a problem for all three teams, as they’re locked in competitive races with the likes of the Philadelphia Phillies, New York Mets, Detroit Tigers, Minnesota Twins and Cincinnati Reds; if you look at that link above, almost all of those squads have the necessary prospects to help make a trade.
Let’s look at the situations in Atlanta, Chicago and St. Louis more closely to see why they lack the potential trade chips.
Atlanta Braves: Imbalanced, inflexible
The Braves don’t have a particularly bad system, but it’s headlined by top-of-the-line pitching prospects that aren’t going anywhere. Julio Teheran is in the conversation for the top right-hander in the minors and, before he got hurt, Arodys Vizcaino was close to joining the discussion as well. Along with Randall Delgado, the Braves see the trio as future rotation fixtures; with them off the table, Atlanta has few chips left. Its top position prospect, Triple-A first baseman Freddie Freeman, is lined up to assume the big-league job next year. The drop-off from there is quite deep. Toolsy shortstop Mychal Jones could generate some interest, but not the kind that is going to get anything big in return. Another long shot is once highly rated outfielder Jordan Schafer, who is doing nothing at Triple-A this year except producing ugly scouting reports; he could be an extra player in a deal with a team willing to take a chance.
As disastrous as the Mark Teixeira deal was for Atlanta—both in terms of how much they gave the Texas Rangers to get him and what little they gained in sending him away—one player received in the package from Anaheim is starting to create some buzz among scouts. Originally signed in 2005 by the Angels as a draft-and-follow, righty Stephen Marek has been rejuvenated as a reliever and boasts a miniscule 0.69 ERA in 37 appearances split between Double- and Triple-A. His fastball has been up to 96 mph this year and his breaking ball is a plus power pitch. He’s close to the big leagues and, if the Braves don’t want to bring him up, others teams might.
PS: (from the same article): “The White Sox had a bad [farm] system entering the year and it’s gotten worse due to some poor performances. Most notably, catcher Tyler Flowers is hitting just .198 since May 1 and, according to scouts, he’s making no progress in his well-below-average defense behind the plate; some talent evaluators have said he’s actually gotten worse.”
Bravesfan4life
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
How is this trade good when a player is having fluke season. Gonzalez career OBP: 0.294 compared to Escobar OBP 0.368. Braves should have made a trade for an outfielder than SS. I watch almost all braves baseball game know that Escobar is way better player than Alex w/out considering Esco mental issues. Escobar is the guy Braves should have kept because he doesn’t upset anyone when there are runners in scoring position. Just looks at his last 3 years stats in RISP: 0.337 BA 424 OBP 0.526 SLG. That is what you need in playoffs.
Rotagilla
July 14th, 2010
3:38 pm
Escobar is a “great” defensive player? He has 14 errors to 11 for Gonzalez vs. 330 chances to 387. So 3 more errors in 57 fewer chances. He has been involved in 41 double plays vs. 67 for Gonzalez. His fielding pct. is .958 vs. .972 for Gonzalez. Escobar is overrated defensively.
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:39 pm
This trade is an upgrade for the Braves. If youre a Yunel fan, youre not going to be happy, and no amount of facts will sway anyone’s opinion.
Gonzalez is just a stopgap until one of our young SS are ready. And friends I’ve seen Edward Salcedo play four times already in person, and Salcedo might outgrow the SS position and move to third base
Herbert Junior Junior
July 14th, 2010
3:40 pm
The deal is mediocre… a slight improvement. I would have used yunel and something more to go after a bat with more impact.
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:40 pm
Bravesfan4life,
The Braves arent done trading yet. The power OF bat will come before the trading deadline.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
July 14th, 2010
3:40 pm
Stop with the Alex is a slugger with a big bat.
He is a low contact SS with a sudden surge in power. He will hit 6 HR the rest of the year. I hope I’m wrong.
Here’s his career numbers for those who keep posting about what a big bat he has.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaal02.shtml#batting_standard
Anders
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
I expected to trade Escobar but I had Tulowitzky in mind…….Yunel is a great fielder bur I think that toss finished him,, Best wishes to him (edU)
Yeah, he makes that toss and the Rockies give the Braves Tulowitzky for Escobar in a heart beat. Damn toss!!
Chief KnockAHoma
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
Enough of this namby-pamby stuff …
THIS TRADE WAS AS SOLID A YOU COULD EXPECT when you have to give something up in order to get something you want. Escobar’s value was on potential alone .. potential that he wasn’t living up to. Now add “Attitudial Head Case” to the mix and I think we ended up on the good end of this deal by dealing him now rather than wait another year. In return we got a proven vet with a solid bat and a gritty work ethic and a solid prospect.
Now quit whining ya’ jerkwagons!
Josh from NY (not NYC)
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
I don’t see a downside to this trade. Not only is it playing for now, but all indications are that the minor leaguers we got are at worst a major league reliever and major league second baseman, I think we got the better side of this deal by far
TheProfessor69
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
… I loves me some new shortstop with a good attitude… I want those who said that Escobar did not have a bad attitude to see they are and have been proven very WRONG … I believe someone here told me I just ‘did not like Escobar’ … I liked him , I wanted him to do good … he was the one who put himself on a plane to Canada. I wanted the Braves to win every game and I think he was a player that maybe did not want to win every game … I do not know what his problem was … I will repeat what I said before. He said at the beginning of the season he was going to make a real effort to learn how to speak English so he could do interviews and he “had a brand new outlook” … well I guess that did not work out. Welcome Mr. Gonzalez , welcome indeed !
JJ
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
All of you think this is a bad move don’t watch the games, know nothing about their minor league prospects or are related to Escobar. This had to be done. Last year was a fluke. He would have played himself out of the starting lineup by next All-Star break anyway. Great, great move.
TennesseePaul
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
This is a sports blog, not a PhD convention. We’re just ordinary fans here – we’re not here to match wits.
Now hold on there just one minute. This isn’t a PhD convention?
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
3:42 pm
“As disastrous as the Mark Teixeira deal was for Atlanta—both in terms of how much they gave the Texas Rangers to get him and what little they gained in sending him away”
We still can’t call a bad deal on this board, though. Right?
Travis
July 14th, 2010
3:42 pm
Terry P…Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like this trade. It’s just frustrating that a guy with so much potential couldn’t be reached. If this trade happened because a couple of guys in their final year wanted it, that’s just sad. I loved this kids fire but he was a little sand lot. Ya gotta believe the every man for himself attitude came from the struggle to get survive in Cuba. Pretty rough life till now.
andy
July 14th, 2010
3:43 pm
why can we just let time tell…..or at least Gonzalez’s first at-bat
jeez
Rock
July 14th, 2010
3:43 pm
I would have traded McLough before trading Escobar.
Shaun
July 14th, 2010
3:43 pm
Would you please respond to the folks who think your “Gonzalez is better than Esco defensively” is ludicrous? I’d like to see your argument.
Bay Area Steve, check out FanGraphs dot com. Go to leaders, click on shortstops, click on fielders and look at Ultimate Zone Rating per 150 defensive games over the last 3 calendar years (setting the minimum at 1,500 innings).
Unless you think range and how often plays are made are unimportant to defensive evaluation, you’d have to say that indications are Gonzalez is at least no worse than Escobar defensively.
ncscoots
July 14th, 2010
3:43 pm
got a proven vet with a solid bat and a gritty work ethic
Well, there you go. I didn’t realize Gonzalez was gritty, too. Changes my whole outlook on the trade, LOL.
Paddy O
July 14th, 2010
3:43 pm
Pearl – someone needs to shove you back where the sun don’t shine. Chipper – HOF, great ballplayer. Dumb moves – signing Glaus; signing Hinski; promoting Heyward; signing Wagner. Some moves were bad, but overall, Wren gets between a B+ and a B- for this year’s Braves. Pearl, you get an F.
shmoe
July 14th, 2010
3:44 pm
We need another move besides this one.
Tale of Woe
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
The Braves sent Yunel Escobar north for a veteran who happens to lead MLB shortstops in home runs (Alex Gonzalez). It’s a win-now move for Atlanta, though they also acquire a pair of intriguing prospects in the process. Meanwhile, the Blue Jays acquire a cheap, young shortstop who can play great defense and has a career OBP of .368. So does that make today’s trade a win-win? Here’s what the baseball writers are saying:
* A veteran scout told Danny Knobler of CBS Sports that Escobar was “not an Atlanta Braves type of player.” Gonzalez is having a strong season and should fit in, so Knobler says he is an Atlanta Braves type of player, even if he’s not a long-term solution at short.
* Mychael Urban of CSN Bay Area believes the Giants could have used Escobar (Twitter link). I wonder how many Tigers fans are thinking the same thing about their team.
* The Blue Jays took a risk and acquired Escobar now, because top players are rarely available when they’re playing at their best, Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos explained to MLB.com’s Jordan Bastian (Twitter links).
* Earlier in the season, an Atlanta Brave told Andy Martino of the New York Daily News that Braves manager Bobby Cox hates Yunel Escobar because of perceived lack of hustle.
* Joe Pawlikowski of FanGraphs says the deal “doesn’t seem nearly as bad for the Braves as it did at first glance,” though the Blue Jays still won.
* R.J. Anderson of FanGraphs believes the trade “has to be looked upon as a pretty worthwhile risk for the Jays.”
* Bryan Smith of FanGraphs says Jo-Jo Reyes doesn’t mean much to the Braves, since they have so much pitching depth. Smith also suggests Tyler Pastornicky had considerable appeal for the Braves, since he runs and has raised his walk rate.
Herbert Junior Junior
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
Great Great Move? You’re smoking something JJ. Now if you were to tell me that we traded Yunel and a decent platooned player for a bat with more pop, I’d be right with ya saying “Great Great Move”!
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
JJ,
I cant agree with you more. I follow the Braves minor leagues very closely, and have seen several games by every Braves minor league team.
We will be just fine without Escobar.
http://gwinnettbravesbible.com/
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
You folks want to debate this all week fine…. but plain and simple this was a deal based on attitude. Cox and Cadahia don’t want to babysit anymore.
This has been building for a year now. The deal does give us more lineup depth to protect the 5-6 guys.
Lpad
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
here’s an interesting link about Gonzalez and his son. Don’t remember reading about this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/story?columnist=nelson_amy&id=4537575
Guess we should get use to hearing about this because if we make the playoffs Joe Buck will talk about this every chance he gets, lol.
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
“are that the minor leaguers we got are at worst a major league reliever and major league second baseman, I think we got the better side of this deal by far”
That’s the aspect of this that is less tangible at the moment. When we dealt Renteria for JJ, we also got Gorkys back in the deal. That set up later discussions for Peavy and eventually McLouth. The Braves always have one eye toward the future when we do acquisitions. This off-season when we seek to replace Chipper with another clubber, we have two more pieces to discuss. Every little bit helps.
Chris
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
Well I was excited at first but then reviewed Gonzalez’s stats when he played 10 years in the National League. His average-.245. I guess all we can do is hope that his career year continues with the Braves. If not…..yikesssss.!
Drew Keith Thomas
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
Uuuuuuu NAiL…………
See ya pal.
KT
dub366
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
i guess you have to kiss ass to get along with the ballplayers in Atlanta what ashamed. Yunel i hope this work out for you,cause you never had a chance here under Bobby & the media.maybe you’ll get paid now.
Bravesfan4life
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
Gonzalez stats for postseason even make this even look worse: 68 AB 0.162 BA 0.186 OBP 0.265 SLG. People this kind of stats is not going get it done in the postseason.
Lew
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
Rock-Yeah most of us would have. Funny why that didn’t happen. Not.
RJR6969
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
Yeah, I’m not sure Gonzalez keeps up this pace, but I’m willing to bet that his second half will be better than Yunel’s. Yunel has the tools to do some big things, but he’s a head case. His nonchalant play drives me crazy. We all remember when Andruw used to be nonchalant in the outfield, but he did it for the most part without making many mistakes. It seems like Yunel is always halfway doing something and costing them a run or two. Why do I like Brian Jordan so much? – because he hustled every second he was on the field. Running out weak ground balls to the right side, taking third on a base hit, etc. For the same reasons I like the Brian Jordan’s of the world, I’ve got no use for the guys who don’t give everything everytime. If you’re gonna have Yunel’s attitude, you better have the talent of Pujols, Cabrera, etc. Most people were willing to put up with Manny’s antics because he was giving you 30/100/100 every year. I don’t see Yunel getting to that level, so he needs to figure things out. Maybe this will open his eyes a bit.
TheAntiMe
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
I love it that the regular Braves Blog people are getting feisty on here. It’s so much nicer than it was back in April when all of these people I never saw on here before nor have I since would come on here and rip all of the Braves and the coaches and Bobby Cox.
They then would proceed to play Super GM and comment how they don’t understand why Frank Wren doesn’t trade Nate McLouth to the Cardinals for Albert Puhols.
At least today’s trade wasn’t one made somewhere from Candyland like the proposed McLouth for Puhols deal. By the way, Mr. Wren, why didn’t you pull the trigger on that deal? Albert Puhols would have made for a nice back-up to Troy Glaus at 1B.
Rob from SC
July 14th, 2010
3:46 pm
I have been a huge Escobar fan and defended him on this blog for many years. I still think he CAN go on to be a really good player, but that WOULD NOT happen here in Atlanta. He doesn’t like it here and it shows. Let him go somewhere else. If he doesn’t change his attitude he will run into the same problems in Toronto.
ALinRIC
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Dan, Hobbs, and others – maybe you’re the ones with your eyes closed. Gonzalez’ OBP is higher than Escobar’s slugging pct. That’s right, Escobar’s slugging percentage is lower than .300. Gonzalez OPS is over 170 pts. higher. He’s won a World Series. He’s won a World Series game with an extra inning home run.
Lpad
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Does anyone have any scouting repors on these two prospects? Only seen one on Collins that says he throws between 90 – 92 occasionally touching 93 and has a good curve. Projected him to be a middle reliever, which to be honest isn’t a good projection for a prospect.
Bobbeeee's Cox
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Scoots,
Good over/under number on HR for Gonzo. I was thinking the same.
kirkinga
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Sorry Interesting Read, that tangent doesn’t answer the question but it does demonstrate that for some this was personal and not about what was the best for the team on the field.
I don’t have to defend Yunel anymore. I’m glad he’s gone because I believe he will be better off somewhere else, so no grumble or crying here. The burden now is on the Braves to show this was a good move. There is also a burden on the Yunel attackers that was not there so long as he he remained on the team.
Erik
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
There is no doubt this strengthens the team for THIS YEAR, much like adding JD Drew and Mark Teixeira strengthened the team in each of the years that those players played. However, given that Gonzalez is in the last year of his deal, and given that I had to watch Adam Wainwright and Elvis Andrus last night in the All-Star game, I can’t avoid the painful sense that we are getting another one-year rent-a-player. Even if that helps the offense this year, I cannot stand what that approach did to the Braves during this past decade and I really wish we had not done it. Even if Yunel frustrated me from time to time — and he did — there is a certain chemistry with this year’s team that I really hate to disrupt. Just getting a healthy Heyward back in the lineup and having a healthy Diaz for the second half would give us more than enough offense to go with our recently strengthened rotation (with JJ). Oh well, I hope it works out …
No Vote for Lew
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Lew, I gotta say that the way you talk down to everyone else on here, and post as though you are some great god of baseball knowledge really irks me.
KC
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Yunel was not a good fit for this team. And anyone who thinks we “gave up on him” too fast hasn’t been paying attention. He gave up on the team last season…and the Braves gave him a second chance. He quit in the middle of a game this season….and the Braves gave him a second chance.
He has hit 0 home runs. And the Braves kept him in the lineup. Infante is a better SS (all around) at this point…and they still gave the nod to Esco.
The Braves have done everything besides name the team after him to try and get him into the game and to be the player they believed he could be. Understand this…if he played in St. Louis or NY or Chicago he would never have still been in the starting lineup this deep into a season so mediocre.
Gonzalez has power. He will hit more dingers. Maybe not 17 more…but who cares. He’ll show up, play hard, and give us what he has to give. You can bet on that.
Esco….I wish you luck. Seeing you leave, however, makes me feel even more confident Wren knows what he is doing and understands how to construct the best possible roster within his budget limitations.
Go Braves.
Paddy O
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
Gonzalez is a good player; HR are a fluke – but he has good ab’s.
shmoe
July 14th, 2010
3:48 pm
Rob Neyer:
Another trade nobody saw coming, this one essentially a swap of two shortstops. One’s fairly young and one’s fairly old, and what’s odd is that the fairly young shortstop (Yunel Escobar) might actually be better than the fairly old shortstop (Alex Gonzalez). Are the Braves getting ripped off? Joe Pawlikowski isn’t so sure. Joe’s big finish:
After further examination, this trade doesn’t seem nearly as bad for the Braves as it did at first glance. Toronto still won their end, but that doesn’t preclude the Braves from claiming victory as well. They’ve gotten rid of a player whom they clearly do not like, and replaced him with a player who, if nothing else, will provide value on defense. The prospects also help out, and while neither projects as a future star both can be useful pieces in a year or two. Maybe it’s a win, though I wouldn’t go so far as to say that. But it doesn’t look like the clear loss I had imagined when digging into the topic.
For me, the obvious takeaway is the Braves have become really, really, really disenchanted with Escobar, who for three seasons was considered one of the game’s best young shortstops. Has he suddenly forgotten how to hit? He hasn’t forgotten how to field. Or at least his numbers are solid, which mildly suggests he’s not playing (badly) hurt.
We’ve got a mystery on our hands. The Braves think they’ve already got it figured out. The Blue Jays must think so, too. They can’t really both be right. While it’s a five-player deal and we’re all optimistic about Tim Collins, essentially this is a classic “challenge trade”: our shortstop for your shortstop and next year we’ll figure who was right.
My money’s on the Jays. But as Pawlikowski points out elsewhere, the Braves have done this sort of thing before and they’ve usually been right.
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
3:48 pm
“Now if you were to tell me that we traded Yunel and a decent platooned player for a bat with more pop, I’d be right with ya saying “Great Great Move”!”
Like, say for example, trading a player with no homers for one with 17?
jz23
July 14th, 2010
3:49 pm
Very exciting news: according to whatever algorithm baseballreference.com uses to compare players at certain ages, Gonzalez is almost exactly like…Jeff Blauser!
Anybody who wasn’t psyched already, GET PSYCHED!
Melky Way
July 14th, 2010
3:49 pm
I will miss Yunel for sure, his range and power arm is second to none,but the deal it self is a good one for the Braves.I think that There had to be something with the attitude,I noticed the last win the Braves had on Saturday,Prado Omar Blanco all did the body bump at the end of the game,but not Yunel,If there is a cancer in the club house,then you must deal with it now.There is no room for Prima Donnas when you are in WS hunt.
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:49 pm
Folks, sometimes you add when you subtract something or someone. Even if Gonzalez doesnt play well, not having to deal with Yunel and the headaches he caused on occassions makes this a good deal.
Believe it or not, it’s not always just about talent with a player.
JK
July 14th, 2010
3:49 pm
Something tells me that we are not done trading. Step one, get rid of clubhouse cancer. Step two, improve offense with one more trade. Gonzalez may not have the second half Yunel would have had. If this is really supposed to be our only mid season trade we did not improve the team statistically.
StanleyPalmer
July 14th, 2010
3:49 pm
I still love Chipper!!!
KC
July 14th, 2010
3:50 pm
Now if you were to tell me that we traded Yunel and a decent platooned player for a bat with more pop, I’d be right with ya saying “Great Great Move”!”
Like, say for example, trading a player with no homers for one with 17?
Ha ha. Exactly!
The A Bomb
July 14th, 2010
3:50 pm
Ricciardi was the Jays’ GM when the prospects were drafted and if he says the Braves got the better of this deal…..that’s good enough for me. He loves Collins.
Remember — 2 of our first 3 picks this year were shortstops.
Bay Area Steve
July 14th, 2010
3:50 pm
Shaun,
I’m aware of UZR and UZR/150. Braveheart mentioned Dewan’s, also at FanGraphs. He, and scoots, seem to think Esco’s better, and that it ain’t all that close. I respect the hell out of all three of you, and wanted to hear your argument. (And, I still do.)
Roman Gal
July 14th, 2010
3:50 pm
Besides the Braves have plenty of shortstop talent in the minors.
Whaaa? You question his passion for the game, and you think the Braves have plenty of shortstop talent in the minors. If anything, Yunel was too passionate about the game. And the Braves have one good shortstop prospect who just moved to single A. Maybe you can consider Mycal Jones a good SS prospect, but there’s not much after that at or above A-ball…
RHR
July 14th, 2010
3:51 pm
Escobar didnt play the”Braves Way” and that’s why he’s in Toronto now. A very talented SS who just doesnt fit the way the Braves do things.
You mean Andruw and the Gold Club scandal were “the braves way”? Chipper and the Hooters scandal were “the braves way”?
Huh.
Really. Stop with the speculation about “I think the players asked for him to be traded” and “He must have been really a lot worse than we thought” and “he was traded because he’s lazy” (theres no current brave not named Omar or Martin who hasn’t dogged it down the line plenty of times – and you know it). He is a damn good SS and our MVP for last season. To keep trotting out every slight you ever even THINK he made during his time as a brave is tacky and classless. Best wishes to Yunel. Wren was offered something that he either thought would help the team this season or something he thought he could turn around and flip to help the team this season and he took the offer. Nothing more or less. DOB hasn’t been exactly objective here because it’s hard to be objective when you don’t like a person – I know, I was that way with Frenchy. But to act like this is the greatest trade of all time and to continue to throw Yunel under the bus, to insinuate that he was “a cancer” based on freakin facial expressions or hair color or because he didn’t like the media (newsflash: a lot of players dont) or a few instances over the course of 446 games is just……nasty. What are we, Philly fans?
Paddy O
July 14th, 2010
3:51 pm
up
Brian from SC
July 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
The quotes from the players will be interesting. There will be the token “we hate to see someone go” comments, but everything you hear the players say about Gonzalez will immediately be compared to Escobar.
“Gonzalez is a gamer, solid fundamental player”
“I think he’ll be a great fit in our clubhouse”
“He knows what it’s like to be on a championship-caliber club”
etc, etc…
GTSteve
July 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
“Grumble, rumble, cry, moan, scream “I told you so” from the top of the CNN Center but the bottom line is that Yunel is gone! If you are going to miss him that bad, buy a Blue Jays hat and a cable package and watch him the rest of the year! Either that or shut up and pull for Gonzo to help the Braves win.”
CLASSIC
Lew
July 14th, 2010
3:53 pm
No Vote-I’m so sorry. How can I ever make it up to you?
Herbert Junior Junior
July 14th, 2010
3:53 pm
Like, say for example, trading a player with no homers for one with 17?
… Like trading one with no homers – along with another player – to get something more than 17! Like I said – this deal helps our cause but is by no means something I will wax poetic over!
Frankie Wren
July 14th, 2010
3:53 pm
Esco had good numbers last year and also had serious concerns about his overall approach and attitude towards the game and his teammates. This is so much about his demeanor. I have trouble understanding how his supporters so easily overlook these character flaws.
Willy Wally
July 14th, 2010
3:53 pm
Shaun, why are you continuing to use UZR when fangraphs has a better defensive metric with Dewan’s DRS right next to UZR? Why? And why do you continue to ignore that this has been pointed out to you several times today?
Escobar is +21 this season according to Dewan’s +/- DRS metric. That is best in the majors. Gonzalez is +13.
Escobar is +34 the last two seasons according to Dewan. Again, best in the majors over the past 2 seasons. Gonzalez is only +8 during that time.
Escobar is +46 the last three seasons combined. That is good for second in the majors over the last three seasons behind Jack Wilson. And there is no one even close to the two of them.
Again, Escobar is +46 the last three seasons combined. Gonzalez is +23 the past 8 seasons combined.
In other words, Escobar has just about saved as many runs in the first half of this season as Gonzalez has in the past 8 seasons combined.
If you’re gonna be a slave to the defensive metrics, at least use the right one, which is Dewan’s +/- DRS, and not UZR
phoenix falcon
July 14th, 2010
3:54 pm
bout time
Prime Time
July 14th, 2010
3:55 pm
What has Escobar done in the minors or majors to warrant this much praise? All I’ve seen is mental mistakes and headaches. He had a decent last year but was he untradeable? I think it was a fair trade and hopefully one or both of the prospects pan out.
Paddy O
July 14th, 2010
3:55 pm
Yunel ran under the bus, time & time again – after having his ears boxed by Grandpa Cox every time. You will not mix Escobar this year. I predict next year, he will be out of baseball. Unless he starts listening to his manager.
coach smith
July 14th, 2010
3:55 pm
guys even if you cut his numbers in half, he STILL has more HRs and RBI than Escobar
KC
July 14th, 2010
3:55 pm
That last bit was supposed to be in quotes. Sorry Gone Viral for not giving you credit.
armchair
July 14th, 2010
3:56 pm
Escobar is young a career .290 hitter, while Gonzalez is older and career .250 hitter. Career numbers are more accurate than current numbers. So long-term there isn’t a lot to like here. Gonzalez could help the offense this year, of course, IF he hits in the second half as he did in the first half. Unfortunately, as we saw with McClouth and often happens, guys often don’t perform the same after a trade–new city, new league, new lineup, facing different pitchers.
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:56 pm
RHR,
If you red my earlier post, the braves way means playing hard every day on the field, not taking plays and games off.
Every baseball scout I’ve spoken to, ( and I’ve spoken to several) have all said that something wasnt right with Escobar’s attitude.
If he’s so valuable to the Braves, then why trade him, if not for the headaches he caused the team??
Listen, as I’ve said, if you are a Yunel supporter, then there’s no facts that anyone can point out that’s going to make you change your mind that this was a bad trade.
But don’t get mad because other fans who share a different opinion turned out to be right.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
July 14th, 2010
3:56 pm
Lpad, Here’s why he is compaired to wagner not only because of size and he’s LH.
SO/BB and SO/IP are good for a 20 year old.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker&id=collin004tim#standard_pitching
Ol Paul
July 14th, 2010
3:56 pm
I really, really like the fact that Joe Girardi has braces like I do.
RHR
July 14th, 2010
3:56 pm
One Mets perspective –
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bitterbill/2010/07/braves-make-first-move-give-up.html
Jo-Jo Reyes
July 14th, 2010
3:57 pm
Well, I just bought my plane ticket for Toronto. Heading to the office to check in and see what minors affiliate i’ll transfer to.
By the way, thanks for all those uplifting comments about my value. Remind me to comment likewise on your work performance.
TRADE
July 14th, 2010
3:57 pm
A little birdie says that The Cubs might be about to get a nice group of prospects for the Byrd Man.
RJR6969
July 14th, 2010
3:57 pm
@StanleyPalmer, I still love Chipper, too!!!
Not as much as BJordan, but the love’s still there!!! LOL!!!
Efrim
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
Braves don’t have a ton of SS prospects. Salcedo ain’t a SS, from everything you read. A lot of mixed reviews on Mycal Jones.
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
Armchair,
Gonzales is just a stopgap until a few of the young SS in the minors are ready in 2-3 years
Paddy O
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
How does dewans factor in the # of games lost because the SS is a moron on the base paths?
vermont 39
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
Well all-righty then…maybe I mean YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Anything is an improvement over the dud we traded. Gonzalez should be stoked. he knows the BRAVES and brings lots of professionalism with his talent.
GO BRAVES
Mikey
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
Great trade. Escobar had NO run production. He was our weak link! 0-HRS 19 rbi’s and inconsistant in the field and running the bases. What a line-up once we get Heyward back!!!
M
Gone Viral
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
“Like trading one with no homers – along with another player – to get something more than 17!”
There are exactly 18 players in the majors with more homers than him and in reviewing the list, only 3 appear to be even marginally available in trade. We went from 0 homers at the position to 19th overall in baseball in homers in one trade. I think you’re setting the bar rather high if you can’t get excited about that.
Chop Chop
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
Best trade I’ve ever seen.
This just confirms that “The Braves Way” is the only way to win, folks.
In Wren and Cox We Trust. They couldn’t possibly let us down. Ever. Never ever.
RHR
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
If you red my earlier post, the braves way means playing hard every day on the field, not taking plays and games off.
So…you weren’t a fan during the Andruw years? I love Chipper but he hustles every day and always has?
Right.
But don’t get mad because other fans who share a different opinion turned out to be right.
I’m not mad at all. We’ll see if “those people” turn out to be right.
sportsmandh
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
I apologize if that’s how it sounded. I just don’t get the references to Franceour. This is a different situation.
Gwinnett Braves Bible.com
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
Efrim,
The braves drafted several SS and third basemen in this years draft. I’ve seen Salcedo, and I agree with you, I think he might outgrow the SS position.
I wrote an article recently about Salcedo.
http://gwinnettbravesbible.com/
hmmm...
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
Escobar was my fav player, so im bummed!~ But truthfully he wasnt the best of all players, i like shortstop’s though, he didnt make a homeru n this season:/ He was an awesome shortstop and played well, but overall, i think it was a pretty good trade.
Reality Check
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
Let’s all make a deal (this includes you, ncscoots) – Let’s reserve official judgment on this trade until October. By then, we’ll either be crying tears of joy or crying ourselves to sleep yet again. Let’s just wait and see how Esco does north of the border and how Gonzalez does in Hotlanta. I predict that if we win the World Series in 2010, not even my new friend scoots can put a bad spin on it! If we end up on the short end yet again – and our track record is less than stellar – then we can point to this trade as the moment we lost the WS and forfeited out future! Let’s all plan to meet back here after the World Series for a more educated assessment of things, shall we? But you know what? By then I’ll have a new son or daughter (we’re waiting to be surprised on the sex) to remind me that baseball is just a game and that, in the grand scheme of things, it rates about as high as pork rinds on the “life-altering meter.” Still though, a WS win in the same year as a new baby would be pretty awesome. Yunel or no Yunel.
ACE
July 14th, 2010
3:59 pm
Can you believe this response??!!! This is better than Damon’s!! And no red panties involved, I don’t think!!