12:25 pm May 31, 2010, by Carroll Rogers
May 31st, 20108:41 pm
“It’s probably his brothers, sisters, cousins, Leroy, all them guys back there in the south. You know how southern guys are. Jethro, all those guys. Some people take that and it gets them ears and they say maybe I should do it this way, see how it works that way because I didn’t get a hit my way, I don’t have the patience to stay with what I’ve been doing. So stuff enters in and I say, ‘OK, I’ll try it.’ Before you know it you’re lost.”
—Mets manager Jerry Manuel on Jeff Francoeur listening to too many voices on his hitting troubles.
Steve from OH
May 31st, 20108:42 pm
Gorky’s is OPSing .551 for Altoona this year. But he has 7 stolen bases!
Honestly, Locke was the one I was loath to give up. He’s doing well this year, 3.24 ERA with 8 K/9 in the Florida State League.
May 31st, 20108:43 pm
I gotta run, when I get back somebody better be outraged with me. Who the hell does he think he is? No, Jerry, its not because he’s from the south, its because hes dumber than a box of hair. But good luck with that.
May 31st, 20108:47 pm
Debut release from Tame Impala – Innerspeaker, is a great mix of psychedelic rock and more recent influences. Kevin Parker (lead singer) sounds a lot like John Lennon, and it works quite well for these guys.
Another band from Perth, Australia. Seems like there is a growing music scene developing there.
May 31st, 20108:48 pm
Steve from OH
When you were talking about hockey and the sports we played growing up, I could remember my experience with Ice Skating.
My YMCA was on an out of town BB tourney and we had an afternoon off. Our director reserved an hour for us despite that no one had ever been on skates. We were 10 I think and all of us got the skates on and hit the rink. We entered at one end and a few of us did the best we could and “flew, if you could call it that, to the other end. Not know how to turn much less stop, I slammed into the back wall and busted my lip big time. Then I got pulled off because I was bleeding on the ice, evidently a no no.
Well, that was it. About 20 seconds of Ice Skating until I was in my 20’s. LOL, no one should never wonder why there are no hockey players from GA.
May 31st, 20108:51 pm
Manuel really said that? That’s pretty idiotic.
May 31st, 20108:58 pm
They might as well give Ubaldo Jimenez the Cy Young award right now
keylargo–you just gotta get it stiched up and get back out there!
May 31st, 20108:59 pm
Jerald–yeah, I don’t get what was up with Eric today…Steve from OH
Nor I. I can get along with anyone. But it gets really annoying when some think you have nothing to add to a conversation, just because you don’t remember very little aspect, or don’t believe as they do. Hopefully, he was just having a bad day. If not, I hope he ignores me.
I remember my first time skating. I was 4, and it took me 2 hours to learn how to stand up out there. I got better. I think.
Bartholomeeeew (Bat) Masterson
May 31st, 20109:00 pm
Leroy, all them guys back there in the south. You know how southern guys are. Jethro, all those guys.
Leroy… Jethro….. What!!! Where the hell does he get that stuff… the Beverly Hillbilly’s …. Gone With The F’in Wind….. Stepin Fetchit…. Hey Jerry, we knew he was a head case when he was shipped off to you guys.
May 31st, 20109:03 pm
BamaDude @ CowCollege AL
May 31st, 20109:05 pm
“Story Of Us” …Histroy Channel …watch …
May 31st, 20109:06 pm
Didn’t they talk about Francoeur listening to too many people for advice when he was on the Braves too?
Who cares what manuel says? Look at the standings……’nuff said
May 31st, 20109:09 pm
Outstanding day at The Ted today, guys. Tommy struggled a little bit, but once he was in his groove, man, was he a joy to watch. Seeing Chipper not only jack one out but also make that beautiful snag (which I saw on the monitors while waiting a ridiculously long time for two hot dogs and a coke), was awesome. Hated to see the trouble Pete Moylan had, which worried me a little, But it was a win over the previously first place team by which we took first. If we keep this up, we just might be playing in October.
And, the sound on the BB concert was so bad, we left after the first song. Glad we didn’t pay $25 to stand down on the field.
May 31st, 20109:11 pm
Jerry Manuel was born in Hahira, Georgia.
May 31st, 20109:12 pm
Did u see my last post?
May 31st, 20109:13 pm
That is Where JD Screw is from…
T’Hawkin – I did. Got in trouble again?
Story Of Us” …Histroy Channel …watch … BamaDude
I’ve been watching but have have a backlog of 6 episodes on TIVO……………
Braves taking priority on everything else limits the time for other TV.
May 31st, 20109:15 pm
it is the final ep …be sure ya get it …
May 31st, 20109:16 pm
Damn Hahira…. Well I’ve been living in the south all my life and I don’t recall ever meeting a Jethro.
MikeinFL, my mom was born in Hahira. I’m going down there in August for a family reunion. Not the most impressive place in Georgia, for sure.
May 31st, 20109:19 pm
bravesgrl4life_ Glad to hear you had a good time. Did your husband bring a book?
May 31st, 20109:20 pm
T’Hawkin & bravesgrl4life – ahem, I hope you both let out loud Marteeeeen’s for me at the ballpark today.
May 31st, 20109:21 pm
Just saw this over on the draft blog on ESPN. We can argue pitch counts all day, but this is ridiculous:
“Pitch counts and the overall workload of young arms has been a prominent subject the past year or so, since Texas and Boston College used relief pitchers for well over 150 pitches each in the regionals last June. The uncovering of such abuse has reached smaller colleges and even high schools this spring, including a saga at Central Washington University that has players quitting and many others calling for the head coach to be replaced.
But this subject has touched the draft beyond the 156 pitches North Carolina right-hander Matt Harvey piled up April 23. Second-day talent Chad Pierce, a right-hander at Wisconsin-Milwaukee, has regularly hit the 120-pitch range this season, but his head coach, Scott Doffek, took that a step or two further over the past four days. Pierce threw 150 pitches Thursday and came back Sunday to throw 86 more — that’s 236 in 72 hours.
Doffek told the Journal-Sentinel, “It’s been eight years, battling and trying to overcome some things,” a phrase that strongly suggests the decisions were based solely on winning and getting into the NCAA tournament for the first time since 2002.
The questionable use of pitchers has already touched the class of 2011 as well, with top prospect Dylan Bundy throwing 181 pitches over two games — in the same day — over the weekend at Owasso High School in Tulsa.
That’s right — 181 pitches in one day for a 17-year-old kid. When will the insanity stop?”
May 31st, 20109:22 pm
Tomahawkin_ For a peace lovin’ guy, you sure seem to have a lot of trouble at the ball yard.
I know I’d be pissed as a parent if my kid was a draft prospect and then threw 181 pitches in 2(!) games on one day. That’s just insane.
May 31st, 20109:23 pm
Tomahawkin – were you bumpin to some Beach Boys this afternoon?
May 31st, 20109:30 pm
I was getting tuned up, tailgating and talking noise to the phillies fans…We were calling then the ‘Sillies’
I was at Turner field from 11AM TIL 6PM…
You know he was!
May 31st, 20109:32 pm
T’Hawkin – have fun with the “sorostitutes?”
Did I spell that right?
Bat, yes, he brought is book. Read a good bit of it, too, but at least he wasn’t complaining
Sopheee – I sure did, friend. Every time he came up I was yelling MARTEEEEEEEEN!!!!
I respect the Beach Boys, but thats not up my alley, when u are partying with 20 year old Sorostitutes……U need some music that makes them want to dance on tables…
Like some Ciara “My Goodies”
We were calling then the ‘Sillies’
Man. You guys are hardcore. You told them.
May 31st, 20109:34 pm
I don’t know what it is but I’m usually the only black dude that hangs out at the Chop House…And Police want to F with me for whatever reason….
May 31st, 20109:35 pm
Ur Right, Sorostitutes Rule…!
My goodies, my goodies, my goodies, not my goodies.
May 31st, 20109:37 pm
Sopheee – I sure did, friend. Every time he came up I was yelling MARTEEEEEEEEN!!!!
May 31st, 20109:38 pm
bravesgrl4life _ Okay I gotta ask… what book…..I take a book with me damn near everywhere I go, but would not take one to a Braves game. lol
May 31st, 20109:40 pm
Bat, he took a book called The Steel Wave. It’s a fictional account of WWII by the guy who wrote Gods and Generals.
I usually take a book with me pretty much everywhere, even to the game. I don’t read during the game, though, just to have if I get there really early and am bored. Once the game starts, the book goes in the bag and there it stays.
I’m guessing it wasn’t The Science of Hitting
May 31st, 20109:41 pm
“T’Hawkin & bravesgrl4life – ahem, I hope you both let out loud Marteeeeen’s for me at the ballpark today.”
I was yelling MP the whole game, and I was saying “Bank on it” a lot as well. there were several people out there who started saying that…
I was at the area in the Chophouse where that “Thanks Bobby” sign is…
hey everybody join the Facebook page THIS IS BRAVES COUNTRY link below
May 31st, 20109:43 pm
Bobby, I am already on that FB page.
“My goodies, my goodies, my goodies, not my goodies.”
Now U got that beat in my head, especially that whistle, that song was so good they had 2 do a rwmix of it with T.I.
My sister lives in Hahira…I grew up down the road a piece. Doesn’t give the SOB permission to start stereotyping everyone down here as the beverly hillbillies.
HEY BRAVES FANS join the Facebook page THIS IS BRAVES COUNTRY link below
May 31st, 20109:44 pm
You got it in my head first! It took a few hours for me to get Waterfalls out of my head yesterday.
May 31st, 20109:45 pm
Danga, I agree with you. There are some mighty fine people in Hahira, and I am kin to a bunch of them.
May 31st, 20109:46 pm
bravesgrl4life _ Ah Jeffrey Shaara, I have read those Civil War books, his father Michael wrote the first one or ones, can’t remember.
Can we go back to the days our love was strong?
Can you tell me how a perfect love goes wrong?
Can somebody tell me how to get things back to the way they used to be?
May 31st, 20109:48 pm
I lost my voice after the fifth inning….BTW, when They threw me out of the ChopHouse…
Yep, Bat, that’s who he was reading. He read the first one a couple of years ago, and upon being advised that he was going to have to go to a baseball game, promptly requested the sequel. Can you tell he isn’t a baseball fan? Not sure he was a good match for me after all
May 31st, 20109:50 pm
Too bad RG’s not here. I’m sure she has some Celine lyrics she could contribute as well.
May 31st, 20109:51 pm
with Frenchy the story begins and ends with poor pitch recognition. If he could only fix that, he’s got all the tools to be one of the greats.
Of course, that’s a humongo “if”.
May 31st, 20109:52 pm
bravesgrl4life_ haha , hey you both like to read, that goes a long way in my book. I can, and have lived with non baseball fans, but have never lasted long with a woman that did not love to read.
May 31st, 20109:54 pm
Well, Bat, he’s not a huge reader, unless it’s his racing magazines. He’s a part-time drag racer. I learned to like drag racing, but he has never learned to even appreciate baseball. No, seriously, we’ve been together 21 years, so I think we’ll make it. I was just 17 when I met him.
May 31st, 201010:00 pm
So, with a smile on my face and the Braves in first, I am off to zzz land. Good night to you all. and GO BRAVES!!!!!
bravesgrl4life_ Sounds like you will, 21 years is along time, lotta history. My experience with women that don’t read is, they feel shut out, my attitude is ” hey you could learn a lot”. It’s cool you came to appreciate the racing thing.
May 31st, 201010:10 pm
How special would it be if Cox could win a WS in his last season as manager ? I’d put it up there with Elway going out with 2 straight SBs.
May 31st, 201010:17 pm
How special would it be if Cox could win a WS in his last season as manager ?
That’d be awesome. We are playing good baseball right now. Lets hope we keep doing so. We are going to get a good idea on how we match up later this month with some of those AL teams when we go head to head with the Twins and Rays.
May 31st, 201010:20 pm
Thanks for that article Steve from Ohio. It’s insane for a coach to abuse these kid’s as some do. I’d pull my kid out the game myself if it were ever obvious that was what was happening.
By the way the Pelicans are coming to town for a four game set Thurs-Sunday. I know Teheran is scheduled, not sure about Delgado, but hopefully both. I’ve got seats right behind the scouts so I’ll let you know what their guns are reading.
May 31st, 201010:23 pm
make some scout friends, Fast
May 31st, 201010:32 pm
This is interesting and defies baseball logic.
May 31st, 201010:34 pm
Going against the grain a little here…I was extremely excited when Frank made the McLouth deal and am very disappointed in his performance. In fact, I thought there was a good chance he would develop a little more and maybe be a 30-30 guy.
Obviously, that hasn’t happened. But I can’t believe the guy forgot how to hit. He’s in a deep slump, one of the deepest I’ve ever seen, and I’m frustrated that he can’t shoot a few balls to left and that his strike zone judgement has been so bad (Fangraphs has an article, pretty compelling, that his entire problem can be traced to called third strikes). But I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he’s gonna figure it out.
A month ago this team looked wretched. They just pummeled the Phils to take over first. A month ago the majority of the blog was for firing Troy Glaus. Now he’s player of the month. Chipper looked done. Suddenly there are signs of life. Melky was useless. A little hitting streak and a couple of bullet throws to save runs and Melky’s earning his keep. Who’s to say McLouth can’t figure it out?
He wasn’t just a serviceable player in Pittsburgh, he was an all star. I don’t agree with those who think he isn’t all that defensively. He is. He plays shallow and cuts off hits. He goes to the gaps and kills doubles. His arm is average, it’s true, but that doesn’t matter much. He is a way above average centerfielder.
And he’s our fastest guy, a terrific baserunner.
He’s doing everything but hitting, and yes, that’s a big deal. But he’s hit before and I believe he will hit again.
And when he does, this looks like a World Series contending team.
May 31st, 201010:40 pm
Danga, but what if Holliday comes up with Bravesitis and makes an out 90% of the time with the bases loaded? TIC
May 31st, 201010:43 pm
The reports we’re getting on Vizcaino, Teheran, Delgado and Minor are exciting. Big Pitching continues to be the Braves’ calling card, and I love our team for that.
Medlen and Venters have been terrific so far, too. What a find Venters is. And by the way, all my impatient blogger friends, Venters went through about three arm surgeries and a lot of bad road before he became the 95 mph sinker guy who’s looking so great right now.
Stay patient, my friends.
Greg in TN
It was a sunny day on Planet Braves rather than Philadelphia as the Braves become king of the NL East mountain with today’s win. Hanson had some early adventures, but settled down and pitched well the rest of the way for the victory. Chipper’s first inning round-tripper was a delight to see, Esco had a couple hits and I liked the day turned in by Jonny Venters as well. Moylan didn’t have it today, looked like he had some issues with his release point IMO and just couldn’t stay low enough in the zone to be effective. It happens. I do see some were wanting to see Hanson stay in, however with 109 on the pitching odometer, I’d just as soon save those pitches for later in the season when we’ll need them.
I’ve never seen Frank Wren wear a hat, however if he does these days there ought to be a feather in it with Troy Glaus written on its side.
Steve from OH: There’s been some grumbling in Tennessee at the high school level about young pitchers literally throwing their arms away. The TSSAA, which is the high school athletic association enacted a rule a few years ago which states that kids cannot pitch more than 10 innings on consecutive days, but that still leaves room for some insane pitch counts by coaches who should know better, but are caught up in the here and now and not concerned with the long-term development of their players. It’s a shame it has to come down to having to enact rules to govern something like that.
If the Black Hawks hang on, there’ll be some rather grumpy folks in western Pennsylvania tomorrow. Couldn’t happen to a better bunch if you ask me.
May 31st, 201010:44 pm
Noleeee, how ya doin’, my friend? Feeling better, I hope?
May 31st, 201010:46 pm
Greg–agree on all counts, man.
May 31st, 201010:49 pm
If the Black Hawks hang on, there’ll be some rather grumpy folks in western Pennsylvania tomorrow.
I’m sure there will be some grumpy folks in Pittsburgh, but not because of Philly’s shortcomings. Make that Eastern PA.
May 31st, 201010:50 pm
Gov, I’m gonna agree with the numbers and say that Nate is not all that as a CFER
Badly in need of an outfielder who could hit, the Braves acquired Nate McLouth from the Pirates yesterday for three prospects. Rather than rolling the dice with an unknown, the Braves acquired one of the easiest guys in baseball to project.
In 2007, McLouth posted a .364 wOBA. Last year, he posted a .369 wOBA. This year, he’s got a .367 wOBA. Despite a hot start to the season last year, you know what you’re getting with McLouth – a quality left-handed bat who draws some walks and has some power. Given an expected ~.360 to .370 wOBA over about 450 plate appearances for the rest of the season, we can expect McLouth to be worth something like 10 runs above an average hitter from here on out. It’s a nice bat.
Despite winning a gold glove last season, the glove isn’t as valuable. McLouth has consistently ranked as a below average defensive center fielder, compiling a -10.6 UZR/150 over his career. He’s a corner outfielder playing out of position in center, but he’s not an atrocity out there. He’ll let some balls fall in that you wished he could have got to, but he’ll make up for with the bat.
Remember, even with his -14.5 UZR last year, McLouth was a +3.6 win player for the Pirates, and he’s on basically the same pace this year. Over the last three years, he’s compiled 1,262 plate appearances and been worth +6.4 wins. Going forward, we should expect McLouth to be a +3 to +4 win player. That’s a borderline all-star, and definitely the kind of player the Braves needed to acquire.
Toss in the fact that McLouth signed away his arbitration years over the winter, and is now under contract for $15 million through 2011 with a club option for 2012, and the Braves have acquired a player who is significantly underpaid. Even with the economic uncertainty of the free agent market, 27-year-olds with +3 to +4 win talent should command upwards of $12 million per season. McLouth will make less than half of that
Ah, I was hoping you meant Pittsburgh, Greg. I’ll pretend you didn’t re-post that. F’ing Penguins.
Niemi is playing one heck of a game, btw.
May 31st, 201010:53 pm
nol and a bunch of e’s…It is oversimplified, but it is interesting to think about. Just goes to show how difficult managing is. If a manager pitches to Pujols in that situation and Pujols gets a hit there is no amount of stats that would keep him from getting tarred and feathered.
lol…Kruk just took up for the Bravos on baseball tonight.
May 31st, 201010:55 pm
Hey, did anybody notice that if you take that one start out of Tommy Hanson’s stats, his ERA is 2.67?
May 31st, 201010:56 pm
you know what you’re getting with McLouth
Sigh. If only…
I see his point Danga, it probably does sway heavily to Holliday with the bases loaded. not everybody hits like a Brave in that situation
May 31st, 201010:59 pm
you know what you’re getting with McLouth Danga
yeah, big mystery. reminds a bit of when Reggie Sanders came here and had the worst year of his career but got better after he left. Let’s see, was Terry the hitting coach that year? Nope guess not
May 31st, 201011:01 pm
Noleee, yeah, I know the numbers say that, but you also need to take a look at his UZR/150 this year, which is far better. Not saying he’s Andruw at 26, but the numbers say he’s a decent CF this year and my eyes tell me he’s better than that.
I’m just not sure about UZR/150 for outfielders especially. I’d love a good defensive metric. I knew Jason Bay wasn’t great in LF but had a hard time believing he was as bad as UZR showed him to be in Boston – looked like his bat was worth six wins and he gave five back in the field – and now in NY he’s suddenly average. Just not sure about the stat.
May 31st, 201011:02 pm
Gov–it ain’t the greatest, but it’s all we’ve really got right now. Well, that or +/-, which I don’t think is as accessible to the fans.
Hey, you think if Nate hits .380 in June, people will talk about how his defense has really picked up, too?
Kinda like the more money I make, the better looking I am.
May 31st, 201011:04 pm
Steve – yeah, I know. I think it’s closer on infielders.
May 31st, 201011:05 pm
Danga, what did Kruk have to say?
Let’s see, was Terry the hitting coach that year? Nope guess not
LOL. Good one.
May 31st, 201011:06 pm
Gov–yeah, I don’t really know what to make of it. I haven’t kept up with the stat this year, as I’m sure ther’ve been changes since I last looked at it. But this I do know–Nate’s the best defensive CF on the club right now, and I think he needs to be out there on a regular basis for some run prevention.
May 31st, 201011:08 pm
Kruk was ranking the top 5 teams in the Majors and he put the Braves at 5 on account of being so hot lately. Then he started yelling for the dot come people to get it right because they ranked the hottest team in the Majors 11th.
Greg: I coached itty-bittys in a tournament this weekend. One of the moms – whom I’m friendly with – was on me about her son’s pitch count when it got to 30. He’d gotten one out in the inning.
The other side of the coin.
May 31st, 201011:09 pm
Noleee, yeah, I know the numbers say that, but you also need to take a look at his UZR/150 this year, which is far better. Not saying he’s Andruw at 26, but the numbers say he’s a decent CF this year and my eyes tell me he’s better than that. Skink
yeah I have questions about all defensive metrics especially UZR, which is really nor designed to be used one year at a time. I think the creator says at least three years. I like The +/- on Bill Jame’s site a bit better.
I don’t think McNate is really bad, just not any better than average to a bit below maybe.
He does have a weak arm, but the scouting ideals say that tool is the least important in CF, though a gun is great if a player has one.
I am really stumped by his atrocious hitting if he is totally healthy though. You have to think it will eventually start regressing
May 31st, 201011:10 pm
Danga–how’s the boards studying going?
May 31st, 201011:11 pm
Steve, as long as the rest of the club’s hitting, and it is, we can afford to wait on McLouth…and he sure doesn’t hurt us in CF. One of those times I’m glad Bobby’s in our dugout, because I’m not sure I’d be as patient. Mighta sent his as$ to Gwinnett to work it out.
May 31st, 201011:12 pm
I found this. Apparently the defensive metrics don’t like McNate. That has him at -40 in the +/- in the year he won the gold glove. He don’t look awful out there.
May 31st, 201011:13 pm
I wouldn’t mind seeing him sit against a few LHers just to take some pressure off
From the games I’ve seen this year, Bobby’s done a nice job managing. His patience with Troy definitely payed off. I’m liking how he’s handling Venters as well.
Crunch time Steve. All day every day right now. I pop on here to keep myself entertained enough that I don’t hurt someone. Exam on Friday.
May 31st, 201011:15 pm
Friday? Hoo boy. That’s gotta be nervewracking. Good luck dude, I’m pullin’ for ya.
Any idea what you want to go in to?
there was a lot of flack when he won that, kinda like when Jeter wins one
Yeah…It has really seemed that Bobby has managed to push the right buttons so far this year.
Noleee – yeah, now that Melky’s hitting a bit, I think it makes sense to sit Nate against LHs. When Diaz gets back, he can take the light end of the platoon with Hinske in left.
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