12:25 pm May 31, 2010, by Carroll Rogers
May 31st, 20106:02 pm
I don’t want to trade Medlen at all guys, I just think that to get something you have to give something up…In a month, we’re going to be trying to figure out what to do with that sixth starter…We know we can’t trade Lowe…Hudson, Hanson and Juurjens are off limits…That leaves KK and Meddog…If KK would bring us a prospect, then so be it…But everyone on here is hammering Bobby for running Nate out there every night…Well Kung Fu Panda Jr. and our best utility player are not the answer in CF..Even if Schafer might be at some point in the future, he’s just another in the long list of lefties that we would have out there…I’m just trying to create conversation with some realistic pondering…
May 31st, 20106:03 pm
then pick a better player to trade for
Eric, somehow I’m not remembering Schafer overrunning balls in the outfield. What I saw was him getting to a lot of balls that McLouth is not getting to and stopping opposing runners from taking that extra base that they take with McLouth with impunity.
May 31st, 20106:04 pm
RHR said what now?
Maybe McLouth will figure out that the opposing pitchers have his # and he is going to have to make some adjustments, maybe Heyward can show him how to do it. Until he does, they are going to own him.
May 31st, 20106:05 pm
Career numbers for the Braves out-fielders … AVG/OBP/SLG
McLouth (1963 AB) … .254/.338/.441
Cabrera (2068 AB) … .267/.330/.379
Hinske (3178 AB) … .256/.338/.442
Blanco (474 AB) … .247/.358/.306
Schafer (167 AB) … .204/.313/.287
Diaz (1353 AB) … .303/.351/.448
Schafer’s and Blanco’s numbers are still into the “too soon to tell” and Schafer was injured for much of his 167 ABs.
McLouth, Hinske, and Diaz are the better career offensive players (although they are nearly identical). Cabrera and Blanco are very similar.
Schafer could be anything at this point.
None of these folks are spectacular offensively, nor is there a lot of difference in their numbers (except for Blanco who has no power).
Decisions on who plays LF and CF should be made based on defense and L/R splits. Even then, we shouldn’t expect too much offensively from those positions.
May 31st, 20106:06 pm
Jerald Holcombe I know how you feel wanting to put the best 9 on the field, but in the baseball business world they are not going to sit a player making millions for a playing making minimum. See Andrew Jones’ last season here. No matter how bad he was hitting and hurting the Braves chances of winning he was not going to sit.
Also see Frenchy’s last year here. Sent his butt down like they should have, but instead of keeping him down until he worked things out brought him back up just to suck some more. He was finally traded. That is why I say until Nate is traded or his defense starts really costing us, he will remain our starting center fielder.
I would not trade anyone right now for anyone else. The answer lies within: a McLouth/Cabrera platoon, with Hinske in LF until platoon-mate Matt Diaz is completely healed and raking. If everyone does what their career numbers should indicate (which they should’ve done from the start), this is a solid-hitting team. If they starting-pitch like they did last year (and the first half of this year), and the bullpen continues to show their improvement (and Scott Proctor acts like a mid-season bullpen acquisition, this Braves team in 2010 is a better TEAM than the Phillies of 2010.
Eric from MO
May 31st, 20106:07 pm
Jerald you just proved my point. Commentting on something you obviously dont know much about. Thanks
For those that are looking to trade a pitcher to get something nice in return, I don’t think that is gonna happen because the Braves are just not gonna give up on one of these young pitchers unless someone just gives them a deal that they cannot turn down, but I don’t see that happening. But, I will say that Kawakami has pitched really well lately and his trade value could be up higher than it was. Still, don’t see it happening.
Idot – McLouth has been in the Majors for almost 2,000 ABs…I don’t think that pitchers are just now getting his number. But it makes you wonder what’s up with him…he had a great 2008, a not so great 2009, and now a horrible 2010.
May 31st, 20106:10 pm
TexasBrave, bullsh**. I see it a lot and I’m sure others have too. Managers will sit a player in place of another guy making millions less. Look, Hinske is making, what, $2.5m less than Cabrera? Well he’s playing in place of Melky for the most part. Nate will be benched over a guy hitting better, like Melky is right now. I’s say Bobby is getting a little fed up with little Nate and his constant pull happy, upper cut swing. He’s GOT to be tured of seeing that, even if his team is playing so good right now.
May 31st, 20106:11 pm
They dang sure got his # so for in 2010.
May 31st, 20106:12 pm
Meant so far
or so fer
Nate has a fairly large sample size of decent hitting. Unless there is something physically wrong with him there is no reason to believe that he will not eventually regress toward his mean just like all the other guys who were struggling did. A long as they are winning regularly there is no reason not to give him that chance. It would be a different thing if they were regularly struggling to score runs now.He is useless sitting on the bench and will never get back doing that. At least playing he is the best CFer that we have, not that I am saying he is a great CFer.I wonder if they have checked his eyes again recently?
May 31st, 20106:14 pm
Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but this is McLouth’s last contract year. I think he does have an option but it includes a team buyout. I believe I remember DOB or Bowman mentioning that Wren had worked in the money needed to possibly buyout out Nate’s option into this year’s budget. Again this is based on memory and no facts so I could be totally off base.
May 31st, 20106:15 pm
Cox is letting McLouth play because he is the best CF and to see if he can come out of this funk like some of the other hitters have.
TexasBraves: Andruw made $14mil his last year here and hit 26 homers and drive in 94 runs while batting a lowly .222. McLouth is making $5mil this year and isn’t even gonna reach Andruw’s last year numbers in Atlanta. Sitting someone who is making $5mil is not that big a deal.
How about a McLouth for Bossman Junior swap? Or Carlos Quentin? That’s probably wishful thinking, but a guy can dream…
Teheran – 8 IP, 6 hits, 0 ER, 0 BB’s, 14 K’s….
May 31st, 20106:16 pm
Teheran struck out the side in the 8th (!). He’s got 14 strikeouts with no walks and 6 hits allowed. His ERA is 0.43. He’s given up exactly one run in 21 innings since his promotion to Myrtle Beach. His overall ERA this season is 0.90. We are talking about a legitimate minor league pitcher of the year performance thus far.
McFann ;Ô; ;Ô;
May 31st, 20106:17 pm
Sure is alot of complaining for moving into first place this late in the season for the first time since 05(last time we made the playoffs).
McLouth has not yet reached free agency status yet. To my knowledge, he is being resigned each year to a one-year contract.
May 31st, 20106:18 pm
Who’s complaining Eric. I think a better term would be tweeking the lineup.
TXBrave: McLouth is not Chipper Jones, with tons of years and a $10 million-plus contract. If McLouth has to sit, he has to sit. If McLouth has to change his swing, dammit, he has to change TODAY. He is not even an average CF, and he is killing us at the plate.
If Nate McLouth has to sit, he has to sit.
Supes outside shot still to make the game is McCann (McFann, don’t lose hope )
I haven’t yet! Though I must say, at the end of April and even at one point during May, I had my head-scratcher on full blast…
Here are the pertinent details of Nate McLouth’s contract for those of you interested:
Back from the game. Good crowd, with a lot of youngsters. The Beach Boys were awful — I believe we were listening to pre-recorded lead vocal. The setting up of their equipment was more interesting.
One last blurb from the Willie Mays bio, since you all seem so fascinated: when Mays took Warren Spann deep in the 16th inning of a scoreless game, winning it for Juan Marichal, who also went the distance, he set a lifetime record of having hit a home run in every inning 1-16. Can you imagine even getting a HIT in every inning 1-16? Say Hey!
May 31st, 20106:19 pm
McLouth for some scantily-clad charter attendants.
Nate is under contract through 2011 with an option for 2012 and a 1.75 mil buyout.
May 31st, 20106:20 pm
McLouth is signed through next year, and then there is a team option in 2012 with a 1.25 million buyout.
May 31st, 20106:21 pm
The Pelicans have taken pity on Frederick by taking Teheran out of the game.
Jerald: the Pirates signed him to a contract that has him until 2011, with an option for 2012.
TnBrian – I don’t know exactly what Nate is making but I am willing to bet that it is considerably more than 2.5 million and probably even greater difference than the 1.5 million difference between Melky and Hinske.
I really don’t see the urgency to sit Nate like we did Frenchy. The team is doing well without him hitting unlike last year with Jeff. So until there is a need for more run production, Nate will stay until traded. And with him in his last year of a contract there is not a good likelihood that is going to happen.
aha! there is Teheran’s fatal flaw. Though he is unscored on at the MB park. he has an ERA of 1.29 away. Obviously the home park advantage is huge in making his stats seem acceptable
May 31st, 20106:22 pm
OK, Nate for a new paint job on the plane.
May 31st, 20106:23 pm
Just crunched a few numbers….here’s Delgado’s, Vizcaino’s, and Teheran’s combined stats (not including Teheran’s start today):
177 IP, 2.19 ERA, 187 Ks
May 31st, 20106:24 pm
Jerald you are for one. Why tweek with a team’s chemistry by removing a good defenseive OF who has proven himself a solid hitter over his career for an OF who is worse defensively, worse hitter over his career, and only hitting slightly hitting better this season. I do believe I recall you wanting to “cut Glaus” earlier in the season.
May 31st, 20106:25 pm
Almost makes you drool
May 31st, 20106:27 pm
The Troy Glaus haters sure have disappeared- the man is on pace for 24hrs,115 rbis. I think he was a good deal- duh.
Steve from OH
jeffrey–Frank’s gotta be drooling over those three, that’s for sure.
Eric–gonna have to go with Jerald on this one.
May 31st, 20106:28 pm
The bad thing is that I look at the lineups for Myrtle and Mississippi and think to myself, “who the heck are these guys?”
May 31st, 20106:29 pm
I have never seen a major leaguer that tries to hit every pitch off the right field foul pole.Mcout’s approach will not work.
May 31st, 20106:30 pm
Thanks Gone Viral, that stinks! Unless he starts hitting he will be difficult to trade with just giving him away. Which wouldn’t be to bad.
Ok so he is not making as much as I thought. I still don’t see Bobby sitting him until he starts costing us games.
May 31st, 20106:31 pm
Steve thats fine, but why complain on Memorial Day when we have just taken first place. I still would disagree. Why pull a solid career hitter when we are winning. He isnt going to overcome this sitting on the bench. If we were losing I would agree with you all, but we are not.
Ain’t it the truth? One day when I feel like it, I’m going to go back to the April blogs and pick out those names.
Eric from MO
May 31st, 2010
And you do? You are laughable at best. Every time someone TRIES to debate something on this blog, you and others like you, deem it necessary to attack that person as not knowing what they are talking about. Here is a fact for you Eric, I’m willing to bet that I’ve seen more baseball than you in my lifespan and I’ve played more baseball than you, and that I’ve coached more baseball than you on a more successful level. My suggestion to you, is that if you can’t agree to disagree, how about keeping outta my way. Jesus, you little pieces of crap just keep on digging when someone doesn’t share your opinion.
Erid / MO: In case you haven’t noticed, the whole team has been tweaked at one time or another this season. Starters have sat on the bench at one time or another until they found their stroke. The only player immune from pine-time has been McLouth.
McLouth has not improved while the rest of the team has. McLouth has to sit.
May 31st, 20106:32 pm
Steve from OH,maybe we can trade pitching for hitting at the minor league level. We sure seem to have an excess of good pitching potential,trade one of these young stars for a 3B,left field power hitter.
May 31st, 20106:33 pm
Nah, I ain’t complaining Eric, and I’m in nolie’s camp that Nate’s gotta play in order to break out of his funk.
This is the first time I can remember us being in first place since the Mother’s Day Massacre in Pittsburgh in 2007.
May 31st, 20106:34 pm
Eric, you are right. I wanted to get rid of Glaus earlier and I was proven wrong. But at what point with McLouth do you say “enough is enough”? Glaus slumped for a month and McLouth has been slumping badly for 2 months, not counting last year.
May 31st, 20106:35 pm
is Jerald = coach?
Sopheeee One day when I feel like it, I’m going to go back to the April blogs and pick out those names.
Just for the record, I was never an actual hater…I may have yelled at him quite often, but I yell at McCann in virtually the same way many times…
May 31st, 20106:36 pm
Don’t worry, I paraphrased so it sounded mean. She was joking and I pasted it below -
soph – what do you think? ha. and even worse is he so smugly picked jeff and kelly and was all like ‘oh 2b isn’t very deep” and then they hit like .800 out of the gate for him. whatever. he’s still only like 2 spots ahead of me lol.
May 31st, 20106:37 pm
The line up was tweaked when we were not scoring runs. We are now thus why fix something that is not broke. If the Braves keep averaging 6 runs a game for the rest of the season we will easily win ninety games and be in the playoffs.
May 31st, 20106:38 pm
Nah, McFann – I’m talking about the people who were ready to throw him overboard in the first few weeks and the ones that deemed Wren an idiot blah, blah.
I’ll sign that one. I was on glaus’s case alot. He sure proved all of us wrong! I’m glad he did.
The only player immune from pine-time has been McLouth.
That has to tell you that Bobby sees something there. I am inclined to trust the old man. All the screams for McLouth to be benched tells me that he must be pretty close to breaking out of it. That seems to be the route everyone else has taken this year.
we seem to have a lot of “baseball coaches” – I thought they were managers- on the board with an awful simplistic view of the game.
I wanted Glaus gone. For now (and hopefully the rest of the season), I was wrong.
May 31st, 20106:39 pm
SOP for BC. 50 games into the season and the lightbulb goes off. Hey McLouth’s not hitting his weight, maybe I should watch BP and see what he is doing. Can’t wait until next year unless the new manager is TP.
Solid career hitter? huh?
Jerald, the reasoning is this:
Schafer isn’t 100%, and until he is, he isn’t even an option at this point. And beyond that, he needs to play and get some reps. He really hasn’t played a lot at all since 2008.
McLouth isn’t gonna get any better on the bench. He’s a superior defender to Melky, that much is true. Melky is a hitter of proven suckitude, and really hasn’t done much but suck all this year. Nate, however, has hit in the past and, like Melky, has sucked this year. What else can you do? At the very least, get the best defender out there you can, because with Hinske in left and Melky in center, that doesn’t scream gold-glove defense to me.
May 31st, 20106:40 pm
And Eric, what I said initially when I started this McLouth talk was that McLouth is fine right now as long as the team is hitting like they are. I also said that at some point, we are gonna need to get offensive production outta him because everyone is not going to keep going like they are. I am fine with McLouth right now, but do feel that Schafer is an upgrade, both defensively and hopefully offensively. Kinda hard to be worse than a .179.
So. we gonna win tomorrow?
May 31st, 20106:41 pm
I wasn’t a Glaus “hater” but I had serious doubts about Wren gambling away the Braves “right handed power bat and 1B position” on Troy, esp. when he was striking out so much with RISP, and getting owned on middle of the plate fastballs. I guess it took about a solid month playing time for him to get going…the series against the Padres stands out, I think he had his first homer and had some solid line drives.
Glaus has been getting much better on his timing…he’s able to time and DRIVE major league pitching now.
I don’t think anyone doubted his power…just the ability to catch up to major league pitching after the surgery and time missed the previous year.
I’m glad I was wrong about Glaus, and glad he’s turned it around. I’ll “Gladly” take 100 plus RBI and 20 plus HR from our 1B when the year is done
My only wish is that Chipper would re-discover the lost art of the HR…today was an encouraging sign.
I just saw the Oswalt ejection. Bill Hohn is absolutely ridiculous.
May 31st, 20106:42 pm
I think we rough up Hamels pretty early. This team is reeling and he is a bit of a head case.
May 31st, 20106:43 pm
“Steve from OH,maybe we can trade pitching for hitting at the minor league level.”
The organizational philosophy is that pitching is the economic backbone of player development. We can get anything we want for the arms we have, but if we do make deals, it will be for MLB-ready players or established veterans. What is getting forgotten here is that 11 out of our top 13 picks in 2008 were pitchers. Out of those, only Kimbrel has been mentioned a lot thus far. Guys like DeVall, Oberholtzer and Spruill are also assets on our ledger sheet. Our pitching depth is probably the best it’s been since 1990.
nolie,I noticed you changed your name as soon as as Soph showed up.
OK, good. Yeah, I wasn’t ready to dump him…as a matter of fact, I wanted him to move up in the order…
May 31st, 20106:45 pm
Danga: yeah, but even Chipper sat due to his injuries. Ross has gotten more play time. Infante has gotten more play time. Hinske has gotten more play time. The truth about Diaz’s thumb was revealed. Conrad has gotten play time. Bobby sees what we all see, a stinking McLouth.
If Bobby is so scared about Cabrera playing CF, let’s put the faster Blanco out there. He’ll hit just as well, if not better than McLouth is doing right now.
May 31st, 20106:46 pm
Yup. That was terrible. I think, 13-2? Anthony Lerew? 3 years of frustration since then.
nah CB, I had a browser problem and when I got back up the old version defaulted to and I didn’t notice it for a coupla posts. looks suspicious I know, but I am firmly in her wake about Marteeeen
May 31st, 20106:47 pm
Not disagreeing with you Steve from OH, at least not much. But, Melky just had a 9-game hitting streak broken today when he was used as a pinch-hitter, so he has sucked all year, just a good portion of it. And I know that Schafer is working his way back from an injury, but that doesn’t hurt his defense. He is playing every day in Gwinnett while he is getting his stroke back. He could just as well do that here and Im sure that he would hit better than .179. And the only person I want t take McLouth’s place is Schafer. No way would I want Melky or Blanco in center.
May 31st, 20106:48 pm
And I know that Schafer is working his way back from an injury, but that doesn’t hurt his defense. He is playing every day in Gwinnett while he is getting his stroke back. He could just as well do that here and Im sure that he would hit better than .179 Jerald
not necessarily true at all and they want no more setbacks of any kind including feeling overmatched.
CB – ha! nolie’s the one that even got RHR to change her name.
BamaDude @ CowCollege AL
May 31st, 20106:49 pm
U Jimenez way in front for NL Cy Young and starter for All Star Game ! ..awesome CG SO today !
May 31st, 20106:50 pm
I don’t see us trading any of those guys for a minor league hitter. I see ‘em packaged for a big-league piece if the need arises. For the moment, we don’t have that need that we can’t fill yet.
May 31st, 20106:51 pm
Well,I guess I have to go vote for Marteeen now,lol.
May 31st, 20106:52 pm
how ’bout some CBeeee?
CBeeee, you know you want to change your name too.
Jerald: here is where we disagree. I think Cabrera is a serviceable CF in the same way Hinske is serviceable in LF. Yet, if Bobby knows something about Melky in CF that we do not know, then Gregor Blanco right now, this minute, is no worse than McLouth in CF. Gregor is healthy and faster than McLouth. In this conversation of low expectations in CF, Gregor’s health and speed matters more right now than McLouth’s present stench.
May 31st, 20106:53 pm
May 31st, 2010
Thanks for the info.
I don’t think anyone wants Schafer coming up until he’s 100% healthy and has some innings under his belt, Jerald. I think bringing him up now would be putting him in a situation like the one he was in last season, and I don’t think that’ll be very good for him at all.
well ok, we’ll accept some Marteeen votes instead CB
“not necessarily true at all and they want no more setbacks of any kind including feeling over matched”
Thank you noleeeee, finally a voice of reason in a mad, mad world.
May 31st, 20106:54 pm
I’m so giddy after today’s win, I don’t care if we go 1-9 in the next 10.
The Braves are playing great baseball, just took over 1st place, and people are complaining and talking about trades?? Dear God, some of you will never be happy.
Well, about three weeks ago I suggested that Nate should go to Gwinnett to work on his stroke, and that Blanco would be an adequate temporary replacement. Since then he’s proceed to hit .185 for another 3 weeks.
Something is seriously WRONG with him. Remember the oh-for-30 (or whatever) streak in Spring Training? This is a good three months where he is completely lost at the plate.
I don’t dislike him; but we’ve got an investment in him and it may be necessary to send him down to relearn to hit. No big rush, I guess, since we’re winning, but it’s not always gonna be this easy.
May 31st, 20106:55 pm
In this conversation of low expectations in CF, Gregor’s health and speed matters more right now than McLouth’s present stench. MBBF
no it does not. we don’t need a change at this time and Nate’s potential upside which he will never reach on the bench, is way more than Gregor’s. makes no sense at all.
just posted some comments from the clubhouse….
May 31st, 20106:56 pm
Yeah, Efrim, that was the one. I remember being at a Mother’s Day party that year at my grandmother’s and all of the men in the family in the living room watching the game hiding out from all the crazy women in the family, and everyone being so disgusted by the game
And I would tend to agree with you in regards to Blanco if I thought he was even an equal to McLouth in center defensively, or knocking the cover off the ball. Currently, he hasn’t been given that chance and probably won’t.
May 31st, 20106:57 pm
Well, we’re in the headlines section of ESPN.com. 3rd from the bottom…but we’re there.
May 31st, 20106:59 pm
May 31st, 2010
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you wouldn’t be very pleased if we lost 9 of the next 10.
Heyward went a quiet 0-for-5 today, didn’t he?
May 31st, 20107:00 pm
Hope you guys enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend. ….Should be an interesting two more days around here. I”ll holler at you manana
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