2:13 pm March 9, 2010, by David O'Brien
March 9th, 20104:24 pm
And, FJR, you are arguing about how this affects a financial structure that this guy alone might render obsolete?
If we are operating with today’s payroll, maybe it is prudent to save the extra cash. But by then, we will have more national TV appearances, perhaps a better local TV deal, and the added monies from the gate receipts. Merchandise, more beer sales, whatever goes into the pool for salaries.
I don’t want to hear more whining about Javier Vazquez and this year, the difference will be seen down the road when our constraints are different.
He will be well worth the price. I want him happy at all times. And yes, a franchise player with 8 years in an organization going for his next deal may very well take less to remain home, and to give the HT discount if it means more talent is coming to help him win rings. In this case, the HT discount maybe denying the Yanks their $30MM a year offer and taking $20MM here…could be substantial. Who knows at this point? We just know the guy is a different kind of special.
Proceed as such.
March 9th, 20104:25 pm
Ghost of PL…you aren’t serious about winning this year…if i have to send him down, he needs to be back by April 15…you give away too many games waiting until June like with Hanson.
March 9th, 20104:26 pm
Jurrjens threw well, no pain, pitches sinking and cutting. Will start Thursday vs. Yanks. Haven’t talked to him yet, waiting for him to finish his running and icing, etc.
Proctor impressed me, good velocity, though he bounced a couple of them (and punctuated one of those with a choice expletive, standard for him. Dude is fiery on the mound.)
The Ghost of P.L.
March 9th, 20104:27 pm
thinbreakness……….when the Braves send Tommy Hanson down to Triple A to open the 2009 season, was his trust shattered? Did he fall apart because he was disappointed that he didnt open the season with the Braves? After all, it was common knowledge that he was more than ready after Spring Training of 2009.
What he did was go down to Triple A and dominate for 2 months. He showed the Braves that he was in fact ready. When he was called up in early June, he proved it. The Braves still have 3 full seasons of Tommy Hanson before he is eligible for arbitration. It would be economic suicide for the Braves to not do the same thing with Heyward.
Belly, you seem a bit feisty today. Save it for later…
March 9th, 20104:30 pm
Mentioned to Bobby that this looked like it could be an opening day lineup, to which he replied: “Pretty close. I don’t know if Heyward will be hitting that low, if he keeps going like this.”
I don’t think the Braves would be starting Heyward this much in spring training if they didn’t want him to play on opening day. He’s been in the starting lineup so he can see some major league pitching, and he’s proved he can hang with the big boys.
PL, again, Hanson needed the innings anyway…so it was a win-win…plus we didn’t have a great shot to make the postseason last year…this year I say we do.
The only reason it’s economic suicide is because you louses won’t spring for tix at the park…get out to a game and support the team…plenty more will be, believe me…and then what’s going to be economic suicide? The new $110MM payroll?
Try to map out a future that isn’t based completely on the present, please.
Ghost of P.L. – ncscoots pointed out on the other blog that Hanson was not ready coming out of spring training last year…. DOB agreed.
March 9th, 20104:31 pm
gohst of PL For every Brian McCann who for whatever reason wants to sign the “hometown discount”……..there’s a Jair Jurrgens and Yunel Escobar who are more than content with going to salary arbitration.
unless i really missed something, jurrjens and escobar have yet to be offered a multi-year contract. it doesnt make sense to cite them in this discussion.
Did someone really say “economic suicide” to have Heyward on the opening day roster?
Hey, don’t hold back. Enough with the measured responses, dude.
Jinx (formerly known as woogidy)
March 9th, 20104:32 pm
Here’s a theory for you guys, If the Braves could sign Pujols to an 7 yr extension, disregarding the money, would you trade Heyward for Pujols? Why? or Why not?
March 9th, 20104:33 pm
Wonder what Bobby has in mind. I like Heyward hitting 7th behind McCann(5) and Yunel(6).. breaks up the line-up nicely.
Alright, DOB’s qoute from Cox about Heyward should pretty much end any talk of whether or not he starts the season in Atlanta. He will. You can’t NOT have him opening in RF for our team.
Your 4:30 quote of Bobby is pretty telling and puts quite the cherry on your topical blog. Its a unique event that Bobby is so candid about a prospect and opening day.
I don’t think Pujols will be as productive 7 years from now.
Well,DOB,I wonder who would call it economic suicide but our boy Paul?
March 9th, 20104:34 pm
Chuck, I think it’s far from a given that Heyward is going to entirely change the Braves payroll structure to a near yankees type level (which would be what it would take for $5mill not to matter). We don’t know that he’s a “different kind of special”. He hasn’t even played 1/5th a season at AAA. He may end up being some kind of superstar, but it’s not quite the guarantee you seem to think it is. Especially considering he’s already had some injury issues.
I’m excited to have him here and all, and I’ll be excited to see him in RF on opening day. But this is just crazy talk that he’s virtually guaranteed to totally transform the Braves from a midmarket team to one of the top 4 or so spenders.
Albert Pujols hasn’t transformed the Cardinals to a top spending team. They’re still midmarket. So basically you’re saying Heyward is basically guaranteed to be much better than Pujols?
Ghost of P.L.
Hanson was sent down to finish getting ready. His pitch counts were very high so he was sent down to fine tune his pitching. Not to mention we had 5 pitchers with Glavine who was suppose to be ready for his first start in mid April but wasn’t. That led to him being released and Hanson coming up. I’m not saying that saving money wasn’t part of the factor in sending him down but not all of it.
Heyward is a different story. He is someone who can contribute everyday. So far Heyward has proved to be ready and theres no reason to hold him back. The Braves are a considered a playoff contender and theres no reason to hold your best prospect now. If Heyward proves to be the player we’re all banking on then the Braves will try to lock him up.
I was about to say DOB, you did a hell of a write up for our lowly #7 hitter.
March 9th, 20104:35 pm
Jinx – any GM in baseball would trade any non-pitcher on their team for Pujols if you are not considering the cost of the contract… right? That’s how I see it.
Last year: .327 47 HR 137 RBI 115 BB 64K
March 9th, 20104:36 pm
If Heyward’s not hitting 7th, where would you put him? probably 5th or 6th? and move down Yuni?
March 9th, 20104:37 pm
1. Rollins SS
2. Victorino CF
3. Dobbs 3B
4. Howard 1B
5. Werth RF
6. Francisco LF
7. Schneider CF
8. Bocock 2B
9. Halladay RH
Anybody else read the article with Heyward that asked which number he’d choose in Atlanta and he said he’s worn 24 quite a bit through the minors, but said maybe #1.
March 9th, 20104:38 pm
I am going to take a huge leap here FJR and suggest you haven’t logged some time in the MB stands or other venues along the Single A route…if you had, you’d understand why I am so adamant about catering to this kid. He is so the real deal…i watched several games last season, and he only improved at AA…
I am going to take a 2nd huge leap and compare the injection he is going to give the fan base in ATL to the injection Barry Bonds gave to the SF Giants in 1993…if anything he’s worth 15MM a year in tix sales alone…i will stand by this…and come back in September to take my lumps if I am wrong.
Transcendent talent…rarely does a thing wrong…but looks like he does everything in slow motion. A model of efficiency and skill.
joe, I like him hitting 2nd in front of Chipper.
How long before Heyward can be a free agent cause I figure that’s about how long we’ll be able to watch him in a Braves uniform.
March 9th, 20104:39 pm
Ok, instead of using the “6 years down the line” argument, I’ll use 3 years and $12 mil.
In a post I made yesterday, I stated that if the Giants had waited 10 more days before they called up Tim Lincecum in 2007, then instead of paying him $8 mil and a $2 mil bonus for 2010……he would be making less than $1 mil in 2010. That is a difference of $9 mil dollars that the Giants wouldnt have to pay Lincecum this season. if they had paid better attention to his arbitration clock.
Not only that, but instead of paying Lincecum the $8 mil and $2 mil bonus he would have probably gotten in 2011 if 2011 was his first year eligible for arbitration…………he will instead be getting $13 mil.
So $9 mil extra the first year, $3 mil extra the second year equals $12 mil that the Giants could have used towards improving the team.
Meanwhile, Mark Reynolds, who will only make around $500K this season despite hitting 44 homers last season……because he missed qualifying as a Super 2 by ONE FREAKING DAY!
Sure, If Heyward plays 3 full seasons, then he wont qualify as a Super 2, he’ll qualify as a regular arbitration eligible player. However, if the Braves delay his clock by 2 months, then they will have him for 4 full months this year and 3 full seasons afterward.
It’s a no brainer. Heyward signing a Brian McCann type contract is a pipe dream. If he’s as good as advertised, he’s going to command a fortune.
someone should tell that dealer up in Cincinatti that 24 is McLouth’s #.
March 9th, 20104:40 pm
And keep in mind FJR, we have had a payroll in excess of 100MM as recently as 2 years ago, it’s just that it’s been poorly spent….we aren’t mid-market like St Louis. We are upper middle class, and we will remain content to run the best farm system in baseball and compensate with that.
A bump of 10MM to 15MM a year from him and Hanson and that’s another superstar…
March 9th, 20104:42 pm
More power to the J-Hey Kid….Go Braves !
Ghost of PL:
How will you feel if the Braves miss the playoffs by 1 win that they could have gotten from Heyward’s offense and defense during the two-week period that he plays in AAA? Two weeks is at least 10 games. Remember when Tampa did this with Longoria they had no hope of contending that year. With Heyward and Glaus, we may finally have an offense. Although we still lack a leadoff man. Maybe Melky can fill that role. If we don’t break camp with Heyward in Atlanta, then this team is more interested in money than winning. That’s a bad message to send to the fans.
March 9th, 20104:43 pm
FEAR- I am sure he meant clock…
Why not consider batting J-Hey at 2? He is already selective on which pitches he swings at and can work the count – if he draws a walk Chipper follows, if they give him something to hit he has every chance of hitting it. If he does really well and he is batting at 7 there would be a temptation to not give him anything to hit with number 8 and the pitcher coming up.
The Artist Formerly Known as Too Hot For Teacher
everybody complaining about the nickname J-Hey – he says that’s the nickname he’s had since he was a little kid – it ain’t goin’ anywhere.
Bay Area Steve
March 9th, 20104:44 pm
I love the fact The Know-It-All Himself doesn’t understand that just 10 days or so gets the Braves an extra year of control. Doesn’t take two months, genius.
March 9th, 20104:45 pm
chuck, in fact I had season tickets to a MiLB team from the time I was 8 to 18. I’ve had Braves season tickets for the last 3 years.
The numbers Heyward put up last year weren’t all that different from Andruw’s numbers his last year in MiLB, except Andruw actually played more games in AAA.
Again, not trying to rain on the heyward parade, but there have been plenty of prospects that put up similar numbers that didn’t pan out. I don’t think that will happen with Heyward.
My point was that Pujols hasn’t totally transformed the Cardinals payroll, why do you think that even given Heyward’s best case scenario, that he’s a multiple MVP player, he would transform the Braves from a mid market team to a team that rivals the red sox payroll? The only way that the Braves payroll changes is if an individual owner who doesn’t care how much money he loses buys them.
March 9th, 20104:46 pm
After throwing 2 scoreless innings in his ST debut., Strusburg said “I just wanted to throw strikes today. If they hit it, they hit it. Big deal.” Love that kind of swagger. I think the NL East is going to be a lot of fun to watch ovfer the next 5 years or so…
March 9th, 20104:47 pm
chuck, when we had a payroll over 100 mill, we were getting over 10 mill in insurance money from Hampton’s policy. The team actually hasn’t spent over 100 mill in quite a while, if ever.
Are they saying Strasburg will start in AAA?
March 9th, 20104:48 pm
Tommy Hanson was ready after Spring Training in 2009 to make the opening day roster. To say otherwise is to rewrite history.
If you dont believe me, then consider the following: After it became apparent that Tom Glavine wasnt going to be ready to make his April 18th start, the Braves first called up Jo Jo Reyes, who flopped to no surprise. Instead of calling up Hanson, the Braves called up Kris Medlen and allowed him to pitch a number of starts in May.
What, Medlen was more ready than Hanson? Or perhaps Hanson needed one more month in Triple A before he was ready? Come on, lol. Those of us who are realists and not blinded by dumb logic realize that Hanson was held down to delay his arbitration clock. It’s a fact and I totally understand why the Braves did it.
However, if Hanson was called up in early May, he would be in line to qualify as a Super 2. I understand why the Braves have to put the kind of PR out that they’ve been putting out concerning Heyward having a “legit” shot of making the Opening Day roster. However, unless they cave into emotion and lose the economic sense of reality……there is no way that they dont send him to Triple A to start the season. Tim Linecum and Mark Reynolds are two stark examples of how service time accumulated affects one’s salary in a given year.
March 9th, 20104:50 pm
Joerochester – they have said he will start in the minors… some suggested he might start lower than AAA so that he can start in a warmer climate and be sure to get regular work… their AAA is in Syracuse.
ha ha the ghost said “delay his cock”
March 9th, 20104:51 pm
The only way that the Braves payroll changes is if an individual owner who doesn’t care how much money he loses buys them.
Probably, but 3MM in attendance would go a long way toward loosening the pursestrings of any owner, individual or corporate.
You ever read “Lies my Teacher Told Me”? It’s a book all about how our history textbooks lie to us all the time. We accept it anyway because that’s what we’re told.
March 9th, 20104:52 pm
There are two different issues here. One is the issue of whether or not the Brave’s hold down Heyward long enough to avoid him being a “Super 2″ player before the 2013 season. To that, I’m betting there is no way that happens.
Issue #2 is more complicated. If the Braves keep Heyward down for 10 days at the start of the season, he will become a free agent after the 2016 season. If the Braves start the season with him on the opening day roster, he will be a free agent after the 2015 season. Basically, by holding Heyward back 10 days right now, the Braves have the opportunity to delay his free agency by an ENTIRE YEAR. Considering that the odds are that Heyward would be 1 win better than Melky at most over the course of 10 games, the Braves have a very real interest in keeping him down for a week and a half to delay his free agency. I don’t know what the final outcome will be, but from a pure #’s standpoint it seems like an easy choice for the FO.
March 9th, 20104:54 pm
Speaking of revisionist history, Medlen was called up because he was the BEST pitcher in the minors at the time.
Yes, he was pitching better than Hanson.
Hanson was still working on his control…
J-Hey’s AB song should be “Forever” by Drake. No doubt.
March 9th, 20104:55 pm
RC, you’re not taking into account that Bobby Cox has a lot of pull in his last year and he wants Heyward here, and he doesn’t really care about 2016.
Really? I was thinking “Be with You” by Mr. Big.
March 9th, 20104:56 pm
March 9th, 20104:58 pm
J-Hey’s AB song should be…………
Angel of Death by Slayer
That Lane Kiffin shirt is classic.
March 9th, 20104:59 pm
flange1, that’s not totally correct either. Their ERAs were virtually identical, Hanson actually had a better K/BB ratio. Medlen had a lower ERA, which made the justification easier, but it was 100% a financial move, not because the Braves thought Medlen was more ready. Anybody who saw both pitch at the time (and I rode down to Gwinnett to see a few games) can tell you that Hanson was more ready at that time.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
March 9th, 20105:00 pm
I agree that Heyward will break camp and head north with the team. That said, Cox is doing this line up right. Six is giving his regulars the opportunity to see Roy Halliday up close and personal long before the regular season starts, and it’s the right strategy on the part of Bobby Cox.
Drake’s “Forever” is lyrically matched to J-Hey’s story though. “I don’t plan on stoppin at all, I want this $*%t forever man.”
Let's Go Bravos!
March 9th, 20105:02 pm
I like this lineup that they have today, but i would consider a slight alteration. I would put Heyward in the 2 spot, Diaz in the 7 spot, and Prado hitting 8th. That way we’ll have power in the 2-6 spots, speed in the 1 and 2 spots, and good on base %’s in the 7 and 8 spot. Diaz and Prado are good at getting basehits, so then the pitcher will be able to bunt them over to get back to the top of the lineup for McClouth and Heyward to get some Rbi’s. What do y’all think?
March 9th, 20105:04 pm
I wasn’t making an assumption one way or the other. I was just trying to lay out the different scenarios for those that were arguing this. I disagree that Bobby “doesn’t care about the future” of the org, but do think that it’s probably more likely than not that Heyward starts the year in ATL. From a numbers standpoint it doesn’t make sense, but from a psychological standpoint for the chemistry and mood of the players on the team, it’s probably the right move. Either way, as Braves fans we’ll hopefully get to see at least 6 years of a potentially great player, maybe more.
March 9th, 20105:05 pm
Oh, goodie. Paul’s back. Let’s talk more about the maturation of Tony Romo!
March 9th, 20105:06 pm
DOB – Put me down for a yeah on #71 starting opening day in RF. But what’s up with our other prospect Freeman – two base running gaffes in like six games – stuff that you usually learn at age 10.
Go Braves – we west coasters get them over here at Dunedin Sunday!
J-Hey Intro music?
“I’m Going In” – Drake, Feat. Lil Wayne — Of course we’d need a radio edit.
March 9th, 20105:07 pm
No No No!!!
J-Hey’s AB-Intro song hold be “Creepin On Ah Come Up!” by old Bone Thugs N Harmony…
or “Here I Go!” by Mystikal…Good shyt…!
March 9th, 20105:09 pm
All this hype about Heyward brings Kevin Maas of the Yankees to mind. Fastest major leaguer to 7 home runs…. Hope Heyward can hit all the pitches consistently.
It would be great if Heyward’s intro music was this:
Steve from OH
March 9th, 20105:11 pm
Coach–good point about Cox giving the squad a chance to see Halladay.
March 9th, 20105:12 pm
FEAR…………I would love to see Mark Cuban buy the Braves. I know, it wont happen. However his track record with the Dallas Mavericks speaks for itself. He isnt afraid of spending money, going after the players who will help Dallas make a run in the playoffs year after year.
Mark Cuban has surrounded himself with a lot of savvy basketball personnel who offer him advice he is willing to listen to.
Peter Angelos is a joke. He turned a once proud franchise into a perennial loser. Mark Cuban turned a joke of a Dallas franchise into a title contender year after year.
March 9th, 20105:13 pm
March 9th, 2010
Two weeks is at least 10 games. Remember when Tampa did this with Longoria they had no hope of contending that year. ”
My history’s a little hazy, but I seem to recall Tampa Bay playing in the World Series that year.
Are you kidding…?
Lil Wayn is complete Garbage…I on’t know who is worse…Him or Soulja Girl…?
Do you think Bobby will manage this team (mainly the offense) any better this year with the addition of J-Hey?
March 9th, 20105:14 pm
ugh, I’m gonna do it. I HATE, HATE, HATE when people post lineups. So, now I’m a hypocrite. I get it. If all you have in response is words of hate, I can understand that.
However, if anyone wants to walk down this road with me, I would love your input. This lineup assumes a few things:
- Chipper bounces back in his BA, but not so much his power. (Fair guess,I bet)
- Cabrerra could play lead off (who the heck knows if that works?)
- Prado’s ego would allow him to bat 8th, even though he is a bad@$$ .300 hitter who is a fan fav. (I think he would be ok)
- Heyward plays like the rockstar many think can be, even now.
Any feedback? (ya know, other than how lame it is that I posted a lineup?)
March 9th, 20105:15 pm
DC, remember Phil Plantier of the Red Sox? The hype on that kid was crazy. I remember paying 20 bucks for his rookie card. Its now worth like 15 cents.
No, but good players always make the manager seem smarter.
Not a knock on Bobby, by the way – HOF manager.
I for one would like to see Bobby use a lot more hit-n-runs this year instead of waiting for the 3-run homer…
Nothing wrong with an agressive offense…
D.O.B. or anyone else for that matter
March 9th, 20105:16 pm
The Ghost of P.L. – Oh yeah I hate Angelos with a passion
March 9th, 20105:17 pm
Dave – If all goes according to plan, when can we expect Proctor to be ready to go in ATL?
I would love for an individual to buy the Braves. It’d be nice to have an owner willing to go the extra mile for the sake of the team. Corporate owners don’t work that way.
LOL, UGAaccountant. I remembered reading that, but I couldn’t find it to quote it. “tampa had no shot to compete that year” making it easier to send Longoria to the minors.
March 9th, 20105:18 pm
ok another Heyward song choice?
Weasels ripped my flesh by Frank Zappa
I think DOB said hes way ahead of schedule and could be ready mid April.
March 9th, 20105:19 pm
I sure as heck like the looks of our lineup with heyward in the 2nd spot than i like the one above. The one tonight just reminds me of the weak A$$ lineup from last year, and the look of heyward in the 2nd spot gives me hope
March 9th, 20105:20 pm
WOW I had a crapload of his Upper Deck 1991 Rookie cards and you are right they were hot on the streets back then as well as Brien Taylor and David Nied…
March 9th, 20105:21 pm
well we are minus KJ, JF, and Krotchman, so that’s gotta be an improvemnt
March 9th, 20105:22 pm
How long is Melky signed through?
Not sure how that looks like the weak ass lineup from last year. It looks more like the 2nd half lineup that score a Sh!t load of runs. Just saying.
Tomahawkin – damn Brien Taylor……what a bust. His gold rookie card from Topps was going for like 300 bucks in those old Beckett mags. I think my little league card might be worth more now
March 9th, 20105:24 pm
Melky is on the arbitration clock and I think he has one more year of that.
Tomahawkin, as was just said….
Heyward is gonna make Bobby look smart
Stat of the day and I’m not sure of anybody has mentioned this before? McCann was the only position player to crack twenty HR’s last year. The last time that happened……..1988.
So to say that Glaus and Heyward are critical to ramping up the power numbers and helping the Braves offense is a no brainer.
Most braves fans I talk to down here in the “A” really don’t care for Milky Cabrera for now and probably hoes he is dealt for prospects during midseason. Since and only since we have a log-jam of outfielders as it stands right now….
March 9th, 20105:25 pm
chuck……..oh, I want to see the Braves win this year. However, I’m a realist. The Phillies will be tough. Not having Jason Heyward for the first month and a half of this season wont kill us. After all, last year, we had 2 months of Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francoeur and Jordan Schafer SUCKING A$$ and dragging down our lineup. Despite that, the Braves were able to make a surge and compete for a Wild Card.
It’s a long season. I’m sure that the Braves can get enough outfield production from Matt Diaz, Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera and Omar Infante until it’s time to bring up Jason Heyward.
Also, allowing McLouth and Cabrera to start the year as starters will allow the Braves to showcase them in potential trades when they decide to bring up Jason Heyward. If McLouth or Cabrera start off the season raking at the plate, their return in any prospective trade would only help the Braves.
I’m sure he may be considered expendable depending on his performance this season.
P’cola oh I didnt relalize we signed Adam Larchoe again
March 9th, 20105:26 pm
I don’t see Milk man going anywhere this year. Now he may not be tendered next year but I doubt he goes anywhere during the ‘10 season.
His name is Troy Glaus
What’s the Phillies lineup again? Oh and will Proctor give up 6 or 7 runs in his debut this spring lol?!?!
March 9th, 20105:27 pm
Man! That was a Damn Good Stat you just mentioned! even my Athlon Sports Baseball Magazine didn’t mention that…
That stat is scientific proof that the HGH/Steroid era is over….
An uggh that magazine stated that Jurrigens gave up 2 runs or fewer in 24 of his 36 starts but yet didn’t win more than 15 games. Thanks TP and the offense!
What do you expect from Troy Glass this year…?
March 9th, 20105:28 pm
Who is Jason Heyward? Did he come up in the Brave’s organization?
Train Wreck Bystander
I am so looking forward to this season!
If they think they will nontender him next year, then why not trade him away and get something for him this season? You have Schafer waiting in the distance.
March 9th, 20105:30 pm
Glen W……….Ok, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on Tommy Hanson not being ready after Spring Training 2009. I feel he showed in both the Arizona Fall League and in Spring Training that he was ready.
However, why did the Braves bring up Kris Medlen in early May instead of Tommy Hanson? What, do you really think that Medlen was more ready than Hanson? Do you really think that Hanson needed 3 more weeks and that Medlen was more polished at that point?
The evidence emphatically shows that the Braves called up Hanson once it became apparent that he wouldnt qualify as a Super 2. Why is that so hard to see?
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