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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,313 comments Add your comment
RC
January 25th, 2010
1:52 pm
P. W. Hjort,
I agree this guy’s list is a bit suspect. He loses me when he refers to Stanton as a “five-tool player”. I’m pretty sure the ability to hit for average is one of the traditional five tools, and Stanton has not demonstrated that he’ll be able to do that at all. Heck of a power hitter though.
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
1:56 pm
Amen, Steve. I’m shedding no tears for him. I hope he DOES go to the Mets; they’ll be that much easier to beat. Hope he enjoys those world renowned golf courses in Flushing, as well. Flushing is what his ego has caused him to do to his career.
Mike S, I bleed red and black so I hated Peyton from the beginning when he was at Tennessee. But he’s gradually won me over. He’s just too good, and as you say is a decent guy as well.
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
1:58 pm
Steve from OH (January 25th, 2010 1:51 pm): PWH–I don’t see how you can rank Teheran 74 and then not rank Vizcaino. Oh, and no way Minor is ahead of Freeman…
A lot of his rankings don’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Carlos Santana 16th? Dustin Ackley 18th? These guys are sure-fire top-10’s for me.
As far as Braves go, Kimbrel, Spruill, and Minor ahead of Vizcaino and Bethancourt makes little sense.
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
1:59 pm
Carlos Santana should be ranked no. 1. “Black Magic Woman” was one of the first guitar solos I taught myself as a kid.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
2:02 pm
lew And no one said they wanted Furcal back. You might notice that what I said was the Furcal of THEN and the Nate of NOW.
sounds like wanting him back to me. you want the furcal of THEN back. thats what i was talking about.
grinch, c’mon man, without the numbers, there is no point in talking about it. its my eyes vs yours. shouldnt everything be taken into account when evaluating a player? i mean, if you refuse to talk stats on here, i dont think youll talk much baseball. besides, im not a sabermatrician.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
2:03 pm
What’s Smoltz’ favorite line …. “See, what people don’t understand” or, “We’ll cross that bridge when we get there”. You know Frenchy is campaigning for Smoltz, you just know it. “Yeah, we’ll get back at those Braves for doing us wrong” LOL
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
2:03 pm
He’s also got Dominic Brown 19th and Michael Taylor 38th. I could more easily see the inverse of that.
O.J.
January 25th, 2010
2:04 pm
But, now that I think about it, just because the A’s are interested doesnt mean that Damon is interested in them. So who knows.
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
2:08 pm
Last complaint about Piliere’s list, I promise. Tyler Matzek is his 94th best prospect. I’ve seen arguments for him being everywhere in the 11-35 range, but 94?
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
2:16 pm
I don’t refuse to talk stats at all. If I didn’t love stats I’d hardly be a baseball fan. I just don’t let them override what my eyes tell me. Furcal stole 34 bases his last year (which was hardly an abberation), and more importantly than the numbers had an effect on the psyche of the opposing pitcher. Plus he gunned down many a fast man with his arm. McClouth stole what, 12 bases last year? Did anyone look scared? And his defense is ok but hardly stellar. And .212 at home? I hope he’s better next year.
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
2:19 pm
Grinch, no problem. Yes, I’m a big Favre fan. But I also like Peyton about as much as you do. Love how he takes charge on the field, particularly. And his personality off it. Not to mention the sheer talent….
Oh, and very good points about arguing with sabermetricians. While most of the newer, more advanced stats are far better than the simple stuff used for a century, and sabermetrics have added a great deal to analysis and discussion of the game, some people give statheads a bad name by relying solely on stats to determine a player’s value or impact, rather than giving any credence to their own observations or those of others that might contradict something in the stats. You gotta watch the games and form opinions based on observations, in addition to relying heavily on stats. To just do one or the other is too simplistic.
And I loved your example about Jeff George and Steve Young.
Oh, and DAP: You really believe Nate McLouth’s a better ballplayer than Rafael Furcal? McLouth, who has played as many as 140 games one time in his entire career, scored more than 62 runs twice in his career, has a career-high of 23 stolen bases, and has a career .260 avg and .342 OBP?
He’s a better player than Furcal, who has played 150 or more games five times, scored more than 90 runs six times (including 100 or more runs four times), had six seasons with at least 25 stolen bases (including three with 37 or more), won the NL Rookie of the Year award, and has a .284 career average and .350 OBP?
And if you prefer to throw the stats aside and just think about what you’ve watched the past decade, you really think Nate McLouth is a better ballplayer than Rafael Furcal? Really?
If McLouth stayed healthy and played like he did in 2008 for a few seasons, I’d be inclined to agree with you. But that’s the only season he’s had that even came close to being a great season.
Furcal had at least five seasons that could be considered outstanding, and a few others that were very good. He’s been plagued by injuries in recent years, and McLouth, if he stays healthy this season, could certainly surpass him in terms of being a better player right now, if Furcal continues his recent trend of being slowed by injuries.
But it’s not as if McLouth has been steady in terms of health. Again, McLouth has had only one season where he played more than 137 games. One season. He’s still got quite a ways to go before he’s had a career that can be compared to Furcal’s.
Daybed Wagmoe
January 25th, 2010
2:24 pm
We’ll like him a lot more hitting 6th or 7th. – TnBrian
Part of your argument for not batting McClouth in leadoff is because he strikes out so much. If that’s so, then batting him 6th or 7th will not improve things, but actually make things worse. You suggest batting him behind McCann and Escobar, two guys who get on base a pretty good amount. Generally, when you bat a guy 6th or 7th, you want him to be able to drive in the middle-order guys that are (ideally) on base when he comes up — in that case, you DON’T want a guy who strikes out a lot.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
2:26 pm
grinch If I didn’t love stats I’d hardly be a baseball fan.
ok, i figured.
McClouth stole what, 12 bases last year? Did anyone look scared?
do they keep stats for how many times someone looks scared? someone get shaun. i dont remember if anyone looked scared of nate. or furcal, for that matter.
Furcal stole 34 bases his last year (which was hardly an abberation),
furcal has never stolen 34 bases in a single season, so im not sure what your looking at. his last season in atlanta he stole 46, which certainly IS an aberration. it was the only time in 7 full seasons where he stole more than 40 bases. 4 of those 7 seasons his SB total was in the 20s, which is what you would expect from mclouth.
And .212 at home? I hope he’s better next year.
like lew said, hes GOT to be better. one reason for that is that he is obviously a better player than that. i think he will have another solid year in 2010.
Thrillhouse44
January 25th, 2010
2:32 pm
Black Magic Woman” was one of the first guitar solos I taught myself
BMW is my go-to Guitar Hero song. The crowd loves me when I rock that.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
2:35 pm
DOB, You really believe Nate McLouth’s a better ballplayer than Rafael Furcal?
yeah i do, especially based on what nate has been able to do since he was given a starting job in 2007.
If McLouth stayed healthy and played like he did in 2008 for a few seasons, I’d be inclined to agree with you. But that’s the only season he’s had that even came close to being a great season.
there are alot of other factors that go into how good of a ballplayer you are, and how valuable you are to your team, but since we have been talking mostly offense, take mclouths .788 OPS this past season, and compare it to furcals year to year OPS. throwing out ‘01 and ‘08, because they werent full seasons, furcal has out OPSed mclouths .788 only twice. he has out OPSed mclouths 2007 .810 only once (by 4 points) and has never approached mclouths .854 OPS in 2008.
so youre right. furcal has been not as good as mclouth for a long time.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
2:39 pm
DOB, ill add that mclouth needs to do it for a few more years, but as of 2007, mclouth is as good or better than furcal ever was.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
2:45 pm
Daybed, maybe you do have a valid point. On a positive note ragarding Nate is that his walks went up a tad from ‘08, his career year, so maybe that’s a sign of good things to come, we’ll see.
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
2:46 pm
furcal has never stolen 34 bases in a single season, so im not sure what your looking at. his last season in atlanta he stole 46, which certainly IS an aberration. it was the only time in 7 full seasons where he stole more than 40 bases. 4 of those 7 seasons his SB total was in the 20s, which is what you would expect from mclouth. — DAP
Expect it all you want, but the fact is, McLouth’s stolen-base totals for the past three seasons were 10 in 106 games in 2006, 22 in 137 games in 2007, 23 in 152 games in 2008, and 20 in 129 games in 2009.
Furcal had these stolen-base totals from 2000 through 2007: 40, 22, 27, 25, 29, 46, 37, 25. He only played 36 games (8 steals) in 2008, and had a career-low 12 steals in 18 attempts over 150 games last season.
By the way, McLouth’s 19 steals last season included 12 in 18 attempts as a Brave.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
2:49 pm
Is it safe to say Nate can put up these numbers this year … .260/22/80? If so, me and I’m sure a few others will second guess our thoughts on NateDawg.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
2:52 pm
DOB Expect it all you want, but the fact is, McLouth’s stolen-base totals for the past three seasons were 10 in 106 games in 2006, 22 in 137 games in 2007, 23 in 152 games in 2008, and 20 in 129 games in 2009.
um…ok i will expect it, since he did it twice and then came within 1 SB of it last year when only playing in 129 games and dealing with leg injuries. does nate reaching the 20s in SB seem unrealistic to you?
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
2:54 pm
TnBrian (January 25th, 2010 2:49 pm EST): Is it safe to say Nate can put up these numbers this year … .260/22/80? If so, me and I’m sure a few others will second guess our thoughts on NateDawg.
That tells me very little useful information about how valuable he’ll actually believe. What about his on base average? How many doubles and triples? Playing time? Stolen bases? Defense? Non stolen base base running? Et cetera.
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
2:55 pm
believe = be.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
2:55 pm
Bobby’s not going to run him, period. By that I mean like he should. Joe S. and Boog would even comment on how they’d like to see Nate get the green light more, but that’s one of Bobby’s main achilles heels.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
2:56 pm
lets just get Nate out of that leadoff spot, please. I know Bobby isn’t one of those stat guys and goes with his gut and his gut tells him “The Natester has speed and he’ll leadoff.” TnB
with the current roster, no let’s not get him out of there. he is the best option by far
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
2:56 pm
“do they keep stats for how many times someone looks scared? someone get shaun. i dont remember if anyone looked scared of nate. or furcal, for that matter.” —DAP
That’s exactly why there’s no point in talking baseball with you, man. You don’t watch. You and Shaun…forget it. I’ll be nice. But I will no longer respond to anything about baseball from you. It’s pointless.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
2:59 pm
PWHjort, you’re such a nerd. LOL! I like you man, just messin witcha. Sorry, but a guy’s Avg/HR/RBI just tells me more than it tells you, obviously. One rate that I’d also go by is runs scored.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
3:04 pm
grinch That’s exactly why there’s no point in talking baseball with you, man. You don’t watch.
i watch, grinch. ill make sure to put a :- ) in there next time so you know im joking.
ill say it with no jokes, i dont remember anyone looking scared when nate was on base. and yeah, the battery seems to pay quite a bit of attention to fookie when hes on.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
3:05 pm
and grinch, i wont force you to talk to me, if you dont want to. i do like hearing from you, though.
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
3:06 pm
DOB, ill add that mclouth needs to do it for a few more years, but as of 2007, mclouth is as good or better than furcal ever was. — DAP
As good or better than Furcal ever was?
In a three-season stretch beginning with 2007, McLouth has hit .264 with a .352 OBP in 417 games, with 93 doubles, 8 triples, 58 homers, 197 RBI, 258 runs and 64 stolen bases. In that period he’s averaged 139 games, 31 doubles, 2.7 triples, 19.3 homers, 65.7 RBI, 86 runs and 21.3 steals.
In a four-season stretch from 2003 through 2006, Furcal hit .289 with a .354 OBP in 612 games, with 122 doubles, 35 triples, 56 homers, 242 RBI, 446 runs and 137 stolen bases. In that period he averaged 153 games, 30.5 doubles, 8.8 triples, 14 homers, 60.2 RBI, 111.5 runs runs and 34.3 stolen bases.
So McLouth averaged five more homers and seven more RBI in a three-year stretch than Furcal averaged in a four-year stretch, while Furcal averaged 14 more games, six more triples, 25 more runs and 13 more stolen bases, while hitting for a 25-point higher average.
And we won’t even bother going into the defense the two players turned in during that stretch, since it’s difficult to compare the two positions. Suffice to say, if you watched Furcal you know he had one of the best infield arms of a generation.
But we’ll just go on offensive stats. You think McLouth’s been as good in the past three years as Furcal was over that four-year stretch?
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
3:06 pm
nolie, Diaz. The reason I say Diaz still is because Prado is too dang good hitting 2nd, leave him alone, and Nate can drive in more guys with his HR/gap power hitting lower. Now, Daybed says Diaz and Nate K about as much, which is true, but at least NM can give you more power hitting 6th/7th unlike Diaz. Diaz also showed the little time he spent hitting leadoff last year didn’t affect him one bit.
MiaBchBravesFan
January 25th, 2010
3:15 pm
Truth is, in Bobby’s final season, a Damon signing would be the last piece to the puzzle. That said, I assure you that the Braves’ next manager will be a Marlins’-type manager who has patience and can work well with youngsters. Melky and McClouth may stay one more season, but a team with Freeman, Schafer, Heyward looks to be the more probable scenario for 2011. With salaries like Jones, McClouth, Lowe, and Cabrera gone after 2011, the Braves can focus on signing Jurrjens, Hanson, and Heyward early on before they become arbitration eligible.
I personally hope that Schafer and Heyward spend the lion’s share of 2010 at AAA and that the Braves at least take a stab at Damon. If Damon would sign for one year, that would be super; he looks like he’s looking for a two year deal, which foils my plan.
The prime objective is to pare down salary for 2011 so the Braves can have a revenue carryover that will allow them to sign Jurrjens, Hanson, and Heyward well past mid-decade. If Medlen develops as a dependable future third starter, things are looking rosy indeed for the Bravos.
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
3:20 pm
If Medlen develops as a dependable future third starter, things are looking rosy indeed for the Bravos.
Medlen is unlikely to ever have a window of opportunity, unless the more-hyped pitching prospects all go belly-up. He’ll be blocked by contracts for a couple of years, and that may be all the time some of those young guns need to develop and block him with talent.
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
3:22 pm
My bad, DAP. That’s why I use emoticons myself. And I didn’t say I wouldn’t talk to you; just not about baseball.
DAP
January 25th, 2010
3:23 pm
point taken, DOB. but you did use 4 years for furcal so that you could include both of his better years in ‘03 and ‘06. to be fair, you ought to leave off his ‘06 season with LA, since we are talking about furcal as a braves leadoff hitter, and just use fookie’s 03-05 seasons.
that would give mclouth an .817 to .777 OPS advantage…most of that in slg%, their OBP is pretty close in those stretches.
and i would still categorize mclouth as “as good or better” since in the three year periods we are looking at, he bested furcal in pretty much every category except runs, SB and triples. nate didnt leadoff all those years which explains his lower runs scored, and ive said all along he is a tick below furcal in SB ability, though not way below.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
3:33 pm
two of his years in Atlanta Furcal had an OBP of 320ish, which is pretty crappy for a leadoff hitter dontcha think?
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
3:34 pm
Having said all that, I should add that I like McLouth as a player and person, and I believe he’ll be closer to his 2008 form if he can keep the hammies healthy this season. I think the contact lenses situation will also help him out, since he obviously couldn’t have been seeing the ball too well last season if he was having trouble reading road signs on his drive home to Michigan, which is when he says he noticed that maybe he needed to get the eyes checked.
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
3:34 pm
tnbrian
why is Prado too good to take out of the 2 spot…is there a stat or something you use to support that or just from watching (I’m curious as much as anything)
Fischerking04
January 25th, 2010
3:40 pm
I wonder if the Bobby and the coaches are bascially set on McLouth as our lead off guy or if they are going to be open to mixing it up. It seems like there are a lot of (blog) people that think he would do better lower in the order. I wonder if the Braves brass might agree?
If so who on the 40 man right now has the potential to be better leading off?
DAP
January 25th, 2010
3:40 pm
nolie two of his years in Atlanta Furcal had an OBP of 320ish, which is pretty crappy for a leadoff hitter dontcha think?
yeah, it is. and follow that up with OBPs of .352, .344, .348…i wouldnt say those are crappy, but its certainly not better than what mclouth gives you, which is my main point.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
3:40 pm
TnB I agree to leave Prado in the 2 hole. He has decent bat control and a good swing for hitting behind the runner and the doubles power to get in scoring position or drive the leadoff hitter in from first at times. First three should be the same as the end of last year McLouth, Prado,Jones. If it doesn’t work some changes can be tried.
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
3:43 pm
ncscoots (January 25th, 2010 3:20 pm EST): Medlen is unlikely to ever have a window of opportunity, unless the more-hyped pitching prospects all go belly-up. He’ll be blocked by contracts for a couple of years, and that may be all the time some of those young guns need to develop and block him with talent.
I don’t believe that’s true. All of the elite pitching prospects are probably two years away.
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
3:43 pm
That’s the best stats you’ve got to condemn Furcal, Nolie? His second and third seasons in the majors, when he was 23 and 24, and one of those he was hurt and played 79 games? He was an All-Star the following year with a .292 average, .352 OBP, 60 extra-base hits and 25 steals in 27 attempts. At age 25.
McLouth didn’t have 400 plate appearances in a season until he was 26.
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
3:45 pm
I don’t believe that’s true. All of the elite pitching prospects are probably two years away.
Isn’t that what I said, LOL?
Nova Scotia Steve
January 25th, 2010
3:46 pm
Oscar Villarreal will hold a throwing session for scouts Friday in Tempe, Ariz., according to his agent, Oscar Suarez.
Love this guy! Hope someone picks him up!
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
3:46 pm
I like Nate too and think he probably just had an off year; just don’t think he’s better than Braves-era Furcal by a long shot.
Scoots, you may be forgetting that in three years Lowe will be gone (age), JJ will be gone (Boras), and KK will likely be gone (age). Hudson possibly too. Medlen might figure in as the 5th starter regardless, assuming our prospects all pan out. Maybe higher up if one or two don’t (which is likely).
Thrillhouse, I love you Guitar Hero guys. I have a friend who plays that 4-5 hours a day and wishes he could play a real one like me. Dude, if you spent that 4 hours practicing on a REAL GUITAR you could. It slays me.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
3:47 pm
tiger297, I just like the way Prado moves runners, he’s good situational hitter like Renteria was when he was a Brave. I don’t think he’s gonna surprise anybody with many HR’s, but he’ll hit his .300 plus avg.
Nova Scotia Steve
January 25th, 2010
3:47 pm
RE:Furcal Discussion…..DOB….”His second and third seasons in the majors, when he was 23 and 24″
I think the only stat you may be incorrect in…is trying to determine Furcal’s age.
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
3:48 pm
why is Prado too good to take out of the 2 spot…is there a stat or something you use to support that or just from watching (I’m curious as much as anything)
it’s not that there’s a stat… it’s just that many here are absolutely in love with Marteeen. Look, I like the dude and think he’s a good ballplayer. But I don’t think he can sustain .300 average and high on-base percentage for an extended period at MLB level. I think people just developed a man crush on him because Bobby actually replaced Kelly Johnson in the lineup. More of like a we’re so glad KJ isn’t there anymore, we’ll love anyone else who’s there.
All that said- again, think Prado’s a good player and I hope he continues what he started last season. Time will tell.
The Grinch
January 25th, 2010
3:49 pm
Oops, just noticed the time. Check y’all later.
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
3:52 pm
it’s not that there’s a stat… it’s just that many here are absolutely in love with Marteeen
I think you’re supposed to have more e’s in his name, LOL, to properly invoke the man-crush.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
3:54 pm
Redstick19, Prado has always hit for a high average throughout the minors and majors. Why don’t you think he can sustain that? Braves fans are going to love him because we know the mainstream media will probably never give him too much credit because he isn’t fast, doesn’t hit a lot of HR’s and his defense isn’t GG caliber. Oh, and he doesn’t play for the Yankees or Red Sox. But we know what he does for our team.
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
3:55 pm
media will probably never give [Prado] too much credit because he isn’t fast, doesn’t hit a lot of HR’s and his defense isn’t GG caliber
What?!? You mean, he’s really David Eckstine in disguise?!? Geez louise!
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
3:58 pm
I’m not knocking Martin at all. I’m just curious (aside from plate discipline) why we wouldn’t want Escobar batting 2nd and Martin batting 6th.
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
3:59 pm
TNBrian- I don’t overly disagree with anything you said there. Prado’s a good ballplayer, but I don’t think he’s anything special. But just because a guy hit’s .300 in minors doesn’t mean he’s going to do that in majors consistently. Lots of Crash Davis’ tear up minors only to become very average-to-forgettable in MLB. Just a feeling, but I think Marteeen is more like a .275 – .280 hitter. Nothing wrong with that. I’ll take it as long as he keeps hitting his doubles and moving runners over.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:00 pm
All of the elite pitching prospects are probably two years away. PWH
but isn’t everybody in the current rotation around for the next 2 years at least? No way to tell what will happen, but I think Scoots makes a point
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:01 pm
tiger927 – I wouldn’t mind trying Escobar in 2-hole. But I also realize how well he does in 6 or 7 spot in lineup, so it’s a donlt mess with what ain’t broken thing, you know? I think Escobar’s better a driving in runners than Prado would be. But then again, we haven’t seen enough of Prdo just yet to know that for sure, eh? Good problem to have…
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
4:04 pm
Does Medlen’s height not create a concern for increased injury risk if he were to try to throw the number of innings expected of a starting pitcher? I know this opens up the pitching mechanics debate but I’m just curious if it wouldn’t be better served to think of Medlen as a closer prospect as opposed to a starting pitcher.
ugaaccountant
January 25th, 2010
4:04 pm
P. W. Hjort
January 25th, 2010
1:48 pm
Frankie Piliere (MLB Fanhouse) Top-100 Prospects
Bad list, IMO. At any rate, the 6 Braves he ranked:
4. Jason Heyward
43. Mike Minor
49. Freddie Freeman
74. Julio Teheran
81. Craig Kimbrel
83. Zeke Spruill
Positives – 6 Braves in the top 100 is actually quite nice. Since we’re a “middle of the pack” farm system now, you’d expect us to have about 3 on this list.
Negatives – He’s not a very good evaluator. If I could only keep one of Vizcaino, Minor, or Spruill, I’d keep the one he didn’t rank at all. Plus, I haven’t seen very many rankings where Heyward wasn’t 1st or second.
Still, nice to see our players recognized.
TnBrian
January 25th, 2010
4:05 pm
Who throws poop at each other next? Something is breewin’, but I hope I’m wrong. Like it when we just talk cool and nice to each other.
WNC Bravo
January 25th, 2010
4:05 pm
DOB, saw where you and some of the denizens were commenting on Kevin Bacon. I recently saw “Taking Chance”, and was wondering if you had seen that one? As former military, I found the film quite moving. I served in the Infantry, in the 10th Mountain Division, in the late 80’s into the early 90’s, and was recalled for Desert Storm. Thank God I didn’t have to go over to the conflict, but I’ve often wondered about the process of bringing the fallen home. If you saw the movie, I’d love to hear your thoughts?
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:08 pm
tiger- I don’t get the height leading to injury thing. I would think mechanics, prior health issues, poor conditioning, torque and sometimes plain bad luck would all catch up with a pitcher before his height would.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:08 pm
, Nolie? His second and third seasons in the majors, when he was 23 and 24, DOB
and his first season he had an OBP of 390 so I doubt his age had anything to do with it at all, and two years @ 320as leadoff is pretty damn damnable IMO
He was not the great leadoff hitter that nostalgia seems to make most here remember him as. He had more speed than McLouth and that made him a bit more exciting ,but that was about the only marked advantage that he had,
But I’m not saying McLouth is necessarily better, just stirring the pot. a bit.And look I already got a hit.
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
4:08 pm
Speaking of Society for American Baseball Research (SABR), they’re having some sort of national SABR day on Jan. 30. For those interested, here’s the release I just received:
Baseball Talk During Football Season? SABR Day Is January 30
On Saturday, January 30, 2010, members of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR) will come together to celebrate SABR and all things baseball. SABR members and other baseball fans across North America will gather for everything from Hot Stove discussions to research presentations to guest talks by former players to a Dice Base Ball Tournament (scheduled to be played outside in Vermont).
SABR has 55 chapters in the US, Canada, Puerto Rico, the United Kingdom, and Japan. Approximately 10% of the membership attends SABR’s national convention each year, making local chapters a key part of the nationwide (and worldwide) community of baseball fans who are at the heart of SABR. SABR Day is an alternative to gathering members in one place by having as many members as possible come together on the same day—regardless of where they live. Every SABR Day gathering is open to all baseball fans; SABR membership is not required.
Currently, there are more than 30 gatherings scheduled across North America, including meetings in Arlington, TX; Arlington, VA; Atlanta, GA; Boston, MA; Buena Park, CA (Los Angeles area); Burlington, VT; Charlotte, NC; Cleveland, OH; Cooperstown, NY; Denver, CO; Des Moines, IA; Dublin, CA (Bay area); Hamden, CT; Houston, TX; Indianapolis, IN; Kansas City, MO; Lansing, MI; Lebanon, NH, Louisville, KY; Milwaukee, WI; Montreal, QB; Philadelphia, PA; St. Louis, MO; St. Paul, MN; San Diego, CA; San Juan, PR; Seattle, WA; Tallahassee, FL; Tempe, AZ; Toledo, OH; and Toronto, ON. The full list of chapter and member events is available at: http://www.sabr.org. All times are local times on January 30, 2010.
The Society for American Baseball Research is an international, member-driven nonprofit organization whose mission is to foster the research, preservation, and dissemination of the history and record of baseball. More information is available on SABR’s website at: http://www.sabr.org.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:10 pm
Escobar batting 2nd and Martin batting 6th.
because Esco has more pop and likely to drive in more runs? I see nothing about Marteeen that makes me think 6 hole, but I do see a lot that makes me think 2 hole
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:11 pm
can I just say SABR is an awesome acronym. Sounds very noble and militaristic at same time.
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:12 pm
TNBrian- I think DOB and DAP already have a minor scuffle going… perhaps it’s just the undercard to the main event.
RC
January 25th, 2010
4:13 pm
Just saw this stat: “Jair Jurrjens & Tommy Hanson were the first pair of teammates in age-23 season or younger to post ERA’s under 3.00 since 1985 (min. 125 IP).”
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
4:13 pm
WNC Bravo: I haven’t seen Taking Chance. I waned to see The Messenger but it’s not on nearby anymore, so I’ll have to wait to see it on DVD. You see that one, with Woody Harrelson? Somewhat similar subject matter.
ugaaccountant
January 25th, 2010
4:17 pm
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
4:04 pm
Does Medlen’s height not create a concern for increased injury risk if he were to try to throw the number of innings expected of a starting pitcher? I know this opens up the pitching mechanics debate but I’m just curious if it wouldn’t be better served to think of Medlen as a closer prospect as opposed to a starting pitcher.
I’m not the pitching mechanics expert, and there are several on the blog, but ultimately you send out whoever is best and if injuries occur you deal with them. Tim Lincecum wass supposed to break down at any moment, and all he’s done is win 2 cy youngs in his first 2 full seasons.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:19 pm
I disagree with you Redstick, I see no reason that Marteeeeen can’t hit 290/300 on a regular basis though probably not every year. The OBP and S% are a little more questionable, but he has never had a problem with his BA. I think he will become a 775 OPS hitter who works well in the 2 hole. Certainly not a star, but a valuable player, especially as a middle infielder.
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
4:22 pm
nolie
where do I see pop translated? In 2009 Prado had higher slugging than Escobar (464 vs 436) He had an extra base hit every 9 AB’s as opposed to Escobar’s every 12. Are homeruns that much more important to a 6 hole hitter so Chip/Glaus/Mac don’t have to try and score on all of Prado’s doubles?
sri
January 25th, 2010
4:22 pm
Interesting discussion to read at BaseballProspectus.. (a theoretical discussion, but fun to read, interesting to see the different assumptions made/opinions offered for a simple question, much like this blog..)
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9981#commentMessage
WNC Bravo
January 25th, 2010
4:22 pm
No, but am planning to. I would strongly recommend “Taking Chance”. If you see The Messenger before I get to please let us know your thoughts.
David O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
4:25 pm
Speaking of movies, saw a good one the other night that I’d never heard of before I read the reviews on the box. Called “Timecrimes,” and it’s a trippy, time-travel story and an edge-of-your-seat thriller (don’t let that time-travel aspect turn you off; I’m not a big sci-fi guy at all and I really liked the story). Never seen anything quite like it, but it’s not a big special-effects thing at all. Which is what’s so surprising, that this low-key, arthouse sort of movie has that as its central concept.
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:25 pm
hope you’re right- or even that Prado’s numbers are even better than that. Again, don’t want to give anyone the impression I don’t like Prado. Just don’t see him through the rose-colored glasses through which some see him. IMO, he’s an average player, thus I expect average numbers from him and won’t be disappointed when he hits around .275 with 10 homers and about 40-50 RBIs. If everyone else in lineup does what they are supposed to/expected to, then Prado’s a great fit. I just get the sense that many are expecting a lot more from him, like he’s going to carry our offense or something. Like they expected from KJ and then turned on him quickly when he became very average. Biggest difference between KJ and Prado: Marteeen is not nearly as streaky as KJ.
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:26 pm
and nolie- didn’t mean for any prior stuff to sound pointed or anything. I like people disagreeing with one another. It leads to great debates and sometimes we’ll open our eyes and minds to something we hadn’t before thought. It’s cool.
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
4:29 pm
because Esco has more pop and likely to drive in more runs? I see nothing about Marteeen that makes me think 6 hole, but I do see a lot that makes me think 2 hole
Ahhh, neither one of them should be hitting 6, but, don’t get me started, LOL.
Ina my perfect world, there is another big bat to put at 6, Escobar can hit 2, and Prado 7. Nothing against Prado, I’d just rather see Escobar get the extra PAs during the season.
Unfortunately, the Braves don’t have that bat, so Escobar is probably the best option available to hit there. At least, until and if Heyward shows enough to get some consideration.
rammerjammer
January 25th, 2010
4:29 pm
Anyone else see this nugget from Bowman’s story today?
“Based solely on the raw strength shown during batting practice, Prado has as much power as anybody on the club right now.”
OK, so a guy – fine hitter, I might add – who had a career-high 11 dingers last year “has as much power as anybody on the club.”
Holy Guacamole.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:33 pm
Prado WILL start the season hitting second if he’s healthy. Quibble all you want, but it worked well last year and there is no reason it shouldn’t this year, and they are similar enough in production that there is no reason to change what worked.
In fact they are too similar to even be talking much about, so..Esco is bigger and stronger and likely to hit more homers regularly than Prado. Prado’s doubles work very well in the 2 slot. that’s all from me.
RHR
January 25th, 2010
4:35 pm
You tell ‘em, nolie.
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
4:36 pm
You tell ‘em, nolie.
Say, now there’s a girl who knows how many e’s go in “Prado”, LOL.
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:36 pm
rammerjammer- that is PRECISELY what I’m talking about… people are expecting the Moon from Prado. What’s wrong with being a “good” player? Whay does he have to be the best thing to ever play 2b? Man, we are setting him up for epic failure and disappointment.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:39 pm
consider the source rammer. he’s a lot stronger than he was in the minors no doubt, but that is a gross exaggeration unless he went crazy with the workouts this winter
Anders
January 25th, 2010
4:43 pm
I think the contact lenses situation will also help him out, since he obviously couldn’t have been seeing the ball too well last season if he was having trouble reading road signs on his drive home to Michigan, which is when he says he noticed that maybe he needed to get the eyes checked. (DOB)
I’m guessing if they had road signs in and around Atlanta McLouth would have noticed this earlier and just maybe he would have played well enough to put the Braves over the top. The damn DOT cost the Braves the division!!
Rob, still sore, from (SC)
January 25th, 2010
4:44 pm
Does anyone know the number to get caravan info
Cold Stove
January 25th, 2010
4:44 pm
I think the key is based solely on batting practice, but I am sure Mitch Jones has great batting practice power too
smitty
January 25th, 2010
4:44 pm
Yeah Timecrimes was a good one, lots of good plot twists
RHR
January 25th, 2010
4:44 pm
Hi scoots….got your dbacks jersey yet?
ncscoots
January 25th, 2010
4:45 pm
Hi scoots….got your dbacks jersey yet?
Nope.
Got my shoes, though, LOL.
Hillbilly
January 25th, 2010
4:48 pm
“consider the source rammer. he’s a lot stronger than he was in the minors no doubt, but that is a gross exaggeration unless he went crazy with the workouts this winter”
Martin “The Situation” Prado…(Oy!…Worst show on televison.)
Anders
January 25th, 2010
4:50 pm
If only McLouth worked in an environment that had signage in it. Perhaps he might have noticed this sight deteriation while, oh I don’t know, standing around for 90% of his job looking around at his surroundings?
Thank god he didn’t fly home. He’d be running into the outfield wall before anyone noticed he was blind. {:
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:50 pm
he’s a lot stronger than he was in the minors no doubt, but that is a gross exaggeration unless he went crazy with the workouts this winter
He didn’t work out with McGwire in offseason, did he? Oh, that’s right- steroids and PEDs don’t help you hit the ball anyway according to sir Mark. They’re just for health purposes, and in no way do they help your performance on the field. Nevermind.
ugaaccountant
January 25th, 2010
4:51 pm
Prado does seem to be a strong guy. I just think he’s a rather average hitter, not that there’s anything wrong with that. An average hitter at 2nd isn’t bad at all.
Like McGwire and Bonds preach, it’s not all about the strength, you also have to have the hitting skill. But when Prado does connect 100%, I’m often surprised at how hard he hits them. I just don’t think Prado connects 100% nearly as often as say Yunel does.
Also, I’m on the Mitch Jones bandwagon. Hope to see him hit about 10 hr’s in spring training and force his way onto the opening day roster.
nolie
January 25th, 2010
4:52 pm
Ruiz to Phils for 3/8.85
ugaaccountant
January 25th, 2010
4:53 pm
I’m going to laugh when McLouth hits .300 this year with an .875 OPS and we find out it really was about the contacts.
AustinBrave
January 25th, 2010
4:56 pm
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
4:04 pm
Does Medlen’s height not create a concern for increased injury risk if he were to try to throw the number of innings expected of a starting pitcher? I know this opens up the pitching mechanics debate but I’m just curious if it wouldn’t be better served to think of Medlen as a closer prospect as opposed to a starting pitcher.
How tall was Maddux looks like Medlen and Maddux are about the same size and the same type of pitcher?
Redstick19
January 25th, 2010
4:57 pm
uga- thank you. I was beginning to feel all alone here in thinking that Prado is just average and that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Count me in on the Mitch Jones bandwagon- in fact, I was slightly disappointed to see us go get Hinske because I feel that Jones could have filled that role as backup 1B/OF. Hinske can also b-u 3rd, though. So I can understand why they’d go that route.
Daybed Wagmoe
January 25th, 2010
4:58 pm
I saw “The Messenger” a couple weeks back. I liked it, it’s a strong film, but I wouldn’t put it up there with “The Hurt Locker” or “Crazy Heart” as one of my favorite movies of the year. Woody Harrelson is great in the supporting role as a hard-ass. Ben Foster turns in a very strong performance, even though I didn’t like his character very much, personally. Overall I’d give it a B+/A-.
tiger297
January 25th, 2010
4:58 pm
rob
Just checked with my ticket rep and no new information on new dates or who will be at each location. Said if dates are added and as soon as players are determined they will be posting it to the website same day.
Maybe what you and DOB were discussing is different from what I’m hearing but he did indicate there was speculation as to other dates being added but nothing official yet. I promise if I see something I will post it for you immediately (I’m looking all the time for me so I should see it)
RC
January 25th, 2010
4:58 pm
Chuck James signed a minor-league contract with the Nationals