Braves hope to have Glavine back in fold

The old band isn't getting back together now, but maybe in the Hall of Fame

The old band isn't getting back together now, but maybe in the Hall of Fame

With Greg Maddux having already signed on to begin his front-office career with the Chicago Cubs, the Braves surely wouldn’t want Tom Glavine to start his post-playing baseball career with any team other than Atlanta.

There might be no reason to worry. Glavine has talked with Braves prez John Schuerholz about a job with the Braves that could include a variety of duties ranging from front-office work to helping out with young players at spring training and in the minor leagues, and possibly even some broadcasting.

Glavine coached his son's Atlanta Fire hockey team in Ottawa, Canada two weeks ago.

Glavine coached his son's Atlanta Fire hockey team in Ottawa, Canada two weeks ago.

“We’re working on putting together what options might be available,” Schuerholz said. “Tommy and I have talked about this very preliminarily.”

The point is, they’ve talked. In other words, when the Braves called, Glavine didn’t just say, “Are you kidding me? After the way I was treated last summer?” and hang up the phone.

Seven months after he was unceremoniously released  — at the end of a minor-league rehab stint and before he would’ve received a $1 million bonus for being added to the Braves roster –- Glavine is apparently willing to turn the page, rather than turn his back on 17 mostly terrific seasons with the Braves.

And whatever you all might have felt about his last stint with the Braves — whether you thought they never should’ve signed him, or they should have cut him in spring training, or he should’ve gotten a chance to prove himself in the majors, or whatever you thought — most of us can probably agree that Glavine being on good terms with the Braves, whether instructing young players or working as a front-office employee, broadcaster or goodwill ambassador, is preferable to Glavine and the Braves severing ties. Can’t we?

(I asked Joe Simpson today about possibly working with Glavine for some games, and he said, “if that were to happen, I would love it.”)

Who knows, Glavine might help talk John Smoltz into coming back to the Braves family once Smoltz is done pitching in 2020 or so.  Since both Glavine and Smoltz live in the Atlanta ‘burbs, it’d be kind of silly for the team not to do everything possible to make sure both feel good about associating with t he team.

I mean, if Glavine and Smoltz are going to the Hall of Fame as Braves, you’d want them to speak (and think) as highly as possible about the organization when inducted, right? (There doesn’t seem much question anymore that Smoltz is going to be elected someday to the Hall of Fame. Obviously, Glavine will be elected.)

♣ Speaking of Glavine and Maddux: As soon as Glavine announces he’s retired from pitching, he and pal Maddux could be on a four-year countdown to a fitting coda to their careers: first-ballot election to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

The question could then become, will both be depicted wearing Braves caps on their Cooperstown plaques? Might Maddux instead wear a cap of the  Cubs, who last week hired “Mad Dog” as a special assistant to their GM?

Maddux, who had 355 wins –- eighth all-time — before retiring after the 2008 season, began his major league career with the Cubs and rejoined them in 2004 after the Braves let him go as a too-expensive-for-them free agent.

He was inducted into the Braves’ and Cubs’ Halls of Fame last season, and expresses great fondness for both organizations.

Rookie card, porn 'stache

Rookie card, porn 'stache

Some of you worry that his return to the Cubs in 2004, coupled with his new job with them, means Maddux will choose Cubs over Braves at Cooperstown.

Here are a couple of points that might lessen those concerns:

The Hall of Fame no longer leaves it up to players to decide which team they’ll represent. For players who’ve played for multiple teams, the Hall picks the cap it deems appropriate, though it does consult with the player.

“At the end of the day you want the logo to represent where this guy made his greatest impact,” Hall of Fame president Jeff Idelson said at a recent news conference after Andre Dawson was elected to the Hall of Fame.

dudeontherug

Dude on the Rug

• Maddux’s case, at least statistically speaking, seems a no-brainer. He accomplished far more with the Braves. (Of course, the Hall and Maddux might view “impact” to mean more than just statistics. But that’d really be a reach to suggest he had an impact with the Cubs as great as he had with the Braves.)

After winning the first of his four Cy Young Awards with a 20-win season with the Cubs in 1992, Maddux went to the Braves as a free agent and produced one of the dominant stretches of pitching in the modern era.

(I remember covering the Marlins in the mid-90s when hitters would ask us writers which Braves pitchers they were going to face in an upcoming series with Atlanta. If you said Maddux’s name, sometimes they would just cringe.)

(I should add, the only guy I personally saw have a season as dominant as the ones that Maddux produced for the Brave was Kevin Brown in 1996 with the Marlins, when the menacing Brown went 17-11 with a league-best 1.89 ERA, a league-high 16 batters hit by pitches, and a Maddux-ian 0.944 WHIP. God, Brown was nasty.)

Maddux pitched more seasons with the Braves (11) than the Cubs (10), and won 194 games for the Braves, compared to 133 with the Cubs. Three of his four Cy Young Awards came with the Braves, and his only World Series title.

He’s gotta go to the Hall with a Braves cap, doesn’t he?

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With Glavine, there’s no question which cap he will wear, despite that five-year late-career stint with the New York Mets. The great lefty recorded 244 of his 305 wins with the Braves.

Glavine won both his Cy Young Awards with the Braves, and was 2-0 with a 1.29 in the 1995 World Series win against Cleveland, including a for-the-ages performance — one hit, eight scoreless innings — in the Game 6 clincher.

When does he get elected? Well, he’s not retired, but he didn’t pitch in the majors in 2009. So provided he doesn’t pitch again –- and he’s not preparing to — Glavine would be eligible for election the same year as Maddux. Nice, huh?

While he’s not the mortal lock that Maddux is for first-ballot selection, Glavine’s 305 wins portends a likely first-ballot election.

After Glavine was dropped by the Braves last June, he was furious at how the matter was handled. He said the Braves knew on a Tuesday afternoon that they were going to release him, but “still paraded me out in Rome to a sold-out crowd” for an A-ball start that night.

That game, as it turns out, was probably the last of his professional career. Though Glavine said after his release that he thought he could still pitch, he didn’t get signed by any other team.

A couple of days after Glavine was released by general manager Frank Wren and the Braves — plenty of fans expressed disappointment in those two days over how the franchise icon was treated — Schuerholz was the one who met with reporters in the Braves dugout and issued a public apology to Glavine.

“I want to offer an apology to Tommy,” Schuerholz said that hot afternoon in the dugout. “We made our decision, but the way — the environment and the tone and manner — the end of it didn’t feel comfortable to me.

“I tossed and turned pretty much all night long after we finished our meeting with Tommy, thinking about, here’s this guy who has meant so much to our franchise, to the game of baseball. Hall of Famer. Represented our city in grand fashion. And the meeting ended in a way that didn’t make me feel good….

“It just doesn’t feel right for a guy of his his stature, his quality, and that’s what I wanted to say.”

Seven months later, Schuerholz could be on the verge of hiring Glavine in a different capacity entirely.

“I’ve talked to Tommy several times since the season ended,” said Schuerholz, who said talks were still in the preliminary stage. “It’s always been in our mind that ultimately, eventually something like this might be a possibility.

“We’ve discussed it with Tommy. I’ve talked to [Glavine's agent] Gregg Clifton. We’re in the exploratory-discussion phase, but the interest has always been there…. The admiration and appreciation is understood.”

Damon available, Tigers uninterested: So I saw this note on the MLBTR site this afternoon: “2:07pm: Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski told Beck through a team spokesperson that the Tigers have not expressed interest in Damon.”

And I immediately thought:

Pulling out jives and jamboree handouts

Beck

Beck

Two turntables and a microphone

Bottles and cans and just clap your hands and just clap your hands

Where it’s at

I got two turntables and a microphone…

No, no. Just kidding. What I thought was, here’s a textbook example of a certain agent you might be familiar with coming up with a team supposedly interested in his client to light a fire under another team that has some interest but not nearly as much as said agent deems suitable for said client.

Or something like that.

Heads are hanging from the garbage man trees

Mouthwash jukebox gasoline

pistols are pointing

at a poor man’s pockets

Smiling eyes ripping out of his sockets

Got a devil’s haircut in my mind…

For the record, Scott Boras doesn’t have a devil’s haircut. An expensive haircut, perhaps, but not a devil’s haircut.

Boras

Boras

OK, let’s move on from Beck references, since we probably lost a portion of our audience by using two lyric tidbits from an eccentric hipster rocker/hip-hopper.  (The Beck referred to in the MLBTR note was mlb.com writer Jason Beck, but that particular note only had his last name.)

Anyway, where were we?

Oh, yes. Johnny Damon. It’s unclear what level of interest either the Braves or Yankees have in the veteran outfielder, but neither has done what Tigers GM Dombrowski did: Neither has come out and said they’re not interested.

And that’s enough for Boras to work with right there, isn’t it?

Since most are now figuring Damon’s price tag might be dropping to an affordable $5-7 mill for 2010, we should be hearing any day now that Damon has signed a two-year, $18 million deal with some team, right? At least that’s how these Boras negotiations usually go.

But in this case, I don’t think so. I believe the market just isn’t there for Boras to work his magic in this one. Damon will have a job, probably with the Yankees but perhaps with the Braves or another heretofore unknown suitor, but he’ll be lucky to make half of the $13 million he made in 2009 in the final year of a four-year, $52 million contract with the Yankees.

Can he help the Braves? Absolutely. They could put him in left field and trade Melky Cabrera or – I’d really hate to see this – Matt Diaz and only add a couple mill or so to the payroll. You go Nate McLouth in center, and in right field either Jason Heyward or, if he’s not ready, then Diaz or Cabrera to start the season.

Damon leads off, McLouth either second or drops down to boost the bottom half of the order, and you’ve got an improved lineup with another veteran who’s been a key part of winning teams and is known as a great teammate.

If not Damon, then the Braves, if you ask me, still need to add a proven hitter with some pop, either now or during spring training. Because as good as this lineup could be if Troy Glaus stays healthy and Chipper Jones rebounds and McLouth is closer to 2008 McLouth than 2009 McLouth, those sure seem like too many question marks going into Bobby Cox’s final season.

But if payroll’s really as tight as they say it is, and a few more million bucks is going to put them over the top of their self-imposed threshold, then, hey, it’s a team with a pitching staff that’s probably good enough to carry it as long as they stay reasonably healthy up and down the batting order.

And as long as a couple of key bullpen guys stay healthy.

It’s never simple anymore, is it?

630c06da99f6f6b3577c5bc9d38d2a63

“THIS IS THE SEA” by Mike Scott (The Waterboys)

These things you keep

You’d better throw them away

You wanna turn your back

On your soulless days

Once you were tethered

And now you are free

Once you were tethered

Well now you are free

That was the river

This is the sea!

Now if you’re feelin’ weary

If you’ve been alone too long

Maybe you’ve been suffering from

A few too many

Plans that have gone wrong

And you’re trying to remember

How fine your life used to be

Running around banging your drum

Like it’s 1973

Well that was the river

This is the sea

Wooo!

Now you say you’ve got trouble

You say you’ve got pain

You say you’ve got nothing left to believe in

Nothing to hold on to

Nothing to trust

Nothing but chains

You’re scouring your conscience

Raking through your memories

Scouring your conscience

Raking through your memories

But that was the river

This is the sea yeah!

Now I can see you wavering

As you try to decide

You’ve got a war in your head

And it’s tearing you up inside

You’re trying to make sense

Of something that you just can’t see

Trying to make sense now

And you know you once held the key

But that was the river

And this is the sea

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah!

Now I hear there’s a train

It’s coming on down the line

It’s yours if you hurry

You’ve got still enough time

And you don’t need no ticket

And you don’t pay no fee

No you don’t need no ticket

You don’t pay no fee

Because that was the river

And this is the sea!

Behold the sea

4,694 comments Add your comment

Jurrjens4NLCY

January 15th, 2010
7:06 pm

Tomahawkin

January 15th, 2010
7:08 pm

Is In The House!!! What’s Up to all!

Bravesguy101

January 15th, 2010
7:08 pm

Second. Like this Peanut Butter jar.

Towlie

January 15th, 2010
7:09 pm

Don’t forget to bring a towel!

Burdell

January 15th, 2010
7:11 pm

That should be enough to continue the DOB-Bowman SuperBrawl 2010.

As for Smoltz – they’ve got to get that guy in a broadcast booth. Hilarious.

TnBrian

January 15th, 2010
7:11 pm

Love the blog, DOB. I wrote a few minutes ago how I hope Glavine stays with us in some way, etc. To know how I feel you go back and read it on the last blog, if not, I don’t blame you.

I agree with you Dave, Braves could use another decent bat in that lineup and maybe Nady is still the best option. Who knows ….

David O'Brien

January 15th, 2010
7:11 pm

Just added a poll to the blog, about which pitchers get in Hall of Fame and which on first ballot.

Tomahawkin

January 15th, 2010
7:11 pm

I’d Love to Have Glavine Back! My Narrow carcus would get starstruck if I was a 20-something pitcher who watched Glavine for so many years growing up…I’d probably see his aura like “Rick James in the Chappelle’s show skit”

D.O.B. Those Throwback Pictures Rule!!! Brings back memories!

You must collect baseball cards, since you post them on your blogs, which is cool, since I collected from 1989-2002

Tomahawkin

January 15th, 2010
7:12 pm

From The Last Blog

Nolie

Ur Quote

Nolie

“Melky’s numbers did improve this year and he is only 24 with three years under his belt. Billy Walsh

his numbers improved because he moved into a better hitters park, how hard is that to understand?”

Perfectly Put

With our Ballpark dimensions Milky will be lucky to hit 10 homers this season

Wayne in Utah

January 15th, 2010
7:13 pm

A point or two about HR’s versus doubles. Everybody digs the long ball! No doubt. Sometimes a double actually extends an inning when a team is building up some momentum.

Two runners on, a HR gets you 3 runs. It also takes a bit of pressure off the pitcher, with no runners on base. But, a double probably gets you two runs, and gives your next hitter a chance to keep the rally going. Also puts additional pressure on the pitcher.

Now, uncle nolie is probably going to point out how I have it all wrong…..

:lol:

woogidy

January 15th, 2010
7:18 pm

haven’t posted in a while, but still read it. DOB, What are the chances Maddux gets in unanimous? To do what he did in the era he pitched in, he has to be close.

ncgary

January 15th, 2010
7:18 pm

the seas for me

Jurrjens4NLCY

January 15th, 2010
7:18 pm

Thanks for the new blog DOB,

I’ve never been first.

ncgary

January 15th, 2010
7:20 pm

if smoltz is on the poll, i guess it would all come down to if he gets caught in tigers lair.

Jake the Snake

January 15th, 2010
7:20 pm

The Official Skip Caray T-Shirt…online now.

http://www.skipshirt.com

jed

January 15th, 2010
7:22 pm

hey hey! waterboys! i’d have gone with ‘fisherman’s blues’ but good to see them anyway…

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:22 pm

I was a little torn on if Smoltz would get elected 1st ballot. Hard considering not knowing who he is up against. But he has gone down as argueably the greatest postseason pitcher ever, great closer, great starter, Cy Young winnner, 5 WS appearances, WS ring and only guy on the greatest decade and a half regular season dynasty. Hard to imagine him not getting in 1st time.

Plus another thing all three have going for them is no link to ‘roids. Too bad our players didnt cheat a little, we may of won more WS titles. Worked for the Yankees. Just kidding…sorta…

nolie

January 15th, 2010
7:22 pm

Granted, I’ll admit I’d prefer him over Melky for 4th OF Redstick

he can’t be a 4th OFer, he can’t play CF at all and he stinks at the other 2 positions. anyway the guy is likely toast.his bat speed was so slow last year that one day a bird landed on it the middle of a swing

David O'Brien

January 15th, 2010
7:22 pm

Moylan and 127 others filed for arbitration today. Means nothing, really. Team will keep negotiating with him and likely settle before a hearing, like just about everyone does.

nolie

January 15th, 2010
7:24 pm

Wayne

lotsa folks feel the same way you do, certainly McFann does, but I’ll take the guaranteed extra run with the homer. afterall it is Bobby’s three run homer offense. ;)

Wayne in Utah

January 15th, 2010
7:24 pm

Maddux first ballot. Smoltz and Glavine, maybe.

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:24 pm

*meant only player on the entire greatest decade and half regular season dynasty

Alan

January 15th, 2010
7:25 pm

DOB, it’s good to see the Braves and Glavine are talking, but I find it interesting that it’s Schuerholz, and not Wren, doing the talking for the Braves. And, of course, it was Schuerholz who apologized last summer. I’m thinking things aren’t exactly hunky-dory between Glavine and Wren, and probably never will be. The Damon situation is intriguing, but I don’t see his price tag dropping enough to fit the Braves’ payroll. Plus, as much as I’d love to see him at the top of the order, his defense — particularly his arm — would be a liability. When all is said and done, I believe he’ll be back with the Yankees this season.

keylargo

January 15th, 2010
7:25 pm

Wren should’ve let Hudson go to begin with. If that had happened we;d have Dye or Damon right now instead of Milky Cabrera, and Hickey….

Let’s see – Hudson (Next years Ace @$9Mil) + Melky + Hickey or Jermaine Dye or Johnny Damon?

Dang that Wren is shrewd!

Redstick19

January 15th, 2010
7:26 pm

his bat speed was so slow last year that one day a bird landed on it the middle of a swing

Shucks, then forget about Dye because that’s one talented bird… sign him instead!

Tomahawkin

January 15th, 2010
7:27 pm

From The Last Blog

Bay Area Steve

“Tomahawkin”

“If there’s ever been better proof that you need to stick to R. Kelly, I can’t imagine it. You’re calling 6-7 million dollars for Dye below-market?”

Yeah I called Dye Signing for 6-7 mill below Mkt value for the fact that he has hit his whole career despite his slump in the 2nd half last year. Dye was looking at getting broke off at about 9-10 mill this offseason just like LaRoche…

Wayne in Utah

January 15th, 2010
7:27 pm

nolie

A bird in the hand….makes sense.

Burdell

January 15th, 2010
7:30 pm

I don’t think anyone will ever get in on a unanimous vote. I mean, 9 people voted against Babe Ruth.

David O'Brien

January 15th, 2010
7:30 pm

woogidy: Maddux should be unanimous, but some genius will refuse to vote for him simiply because no one else has been unanimous. You watch. It’ll happen. This is the time when I wish Hall of Fame ballots were made public, so the person or persons who doesn’t vote Maddux on first ballot would have to defend the action.

Chuck James was Solid Until the 6th!!!

January 15th, 2010
7:30 pm

Wayne

I agree with your post and for the people saying Melky might hit 10 HR’s IF he is on the roster OD, then that just mean he’ll be hitting more doubles too. And you can’t deny from last years performances that the man is clutch and also take in consideration he did it on the biggest stage on the planet. And oh yeh, he’s only 25 years old!!! AND his defense is A+! Give the guy a chance to come over and prove himself some guys don’t reach their potential until around 27-28 and I think he is on the verge of proving he can do bigger things then he already has. Just my opinion….

However, not just because of the rumors, just because of the lack of interest and Johnny’s more than willingness to play in ATL, I think too if they can move Melky to say the Padres a team that can control him for a few more years for a prospect then they could easily come up with the 5-6 million to sign Johnny. I think having Damon would really solidify this club as a whole. Everybody on the 25 man roster is consistent and reliable already but with Damon you add another proven winner and leader to go with Chipper.

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:31 pm

Wayne Glavine was one of the 3 best pitchers of his generation (Maddux, Clemons(cheater), Glavine), a top 5 lefty ever, 300 games winner, multi-Cy Young winner, 5 WS apperances, WS title, with no link to steroids and you dont think he is a sure thing for HOF. I think people also severally underestimate the point that no link to steroids, which is huge. Question, this is for anyone, Im curious, how many 300 game winners havent been elected 1st time and who are they?

As for Smoltz, its hard to say because nobody’s career is really like his. Closest is Eckersly, but I think Smoltz’s career is even better because he became a starter again after closing.

Burdell

January 15th, 2010
7:31 pm

Actually.. it was 11. I just looked it up. It looks like Ty Cobb got the closest in actual numbers (only 4 votes against). Seaver got the closest on percent (just under 99%).

jeffrey d

January 15th, 2010
7:32 pm

That picture looks like Smoltz is walking with his two sons

Chuck James was Solid Until the 6th!!!

January 15th, 2010
7:35 pm

DOB

If he isn’t first ballot that is a JOKE!!!! I agree with you, the idiot(s) who just want to be cool and do it for no sane reasoning should be called out and have to explain themselves…. It would be PATHETIC if he didn’t get in on the 1rst ballot. But like you said %98 chance he won’t because of those couple of fools who want to have their little stupid personal part in history to share with close friends like, “I was the guy who didn’t vote Maddux, so I’M the reason he didn’t become the 1rst unanimous in!!!!” Thinking it’s “cool” or something… Some people are just plain idiots, that will never change.

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:35 pm

Alan I would say your probably right about Glavine and Wren, but I really cant blame Wren. In Wren’s eyes he made the team better,which he did, with choosing Hanson over Glavine. He was not friends with Glav, he did not owe him anything. Wren is trying to make his own dynasty and Glavine would of never been a part of it as a player.

As for JS on the other hand, was probably pretty good friends with Glavine, felt he owed him better than that, and had Glavine as part of his dynasty. Glavine was one of his “guys.”

You are probably right and I really cant blame any of them.

La Jolla Dawg

January 15th, 2010
7:36 pm

Hey David! If you ever make it to La Jolla (remember you have to try fish tacos from Wahoos) I’ll have to tell you my Mike Scott story, it is a very good one. This is the Sea is an album I would have to have with me on the deserted island. Great choice.

I hope Glavine does work with the Braves would be nice to have him back in the fold.

Wayne in Utah

January 15th, 2010
7:37 pm

Eric

Yes, I think he is HOF material. No doubt. I just said I wasn’t sure he would be a first ballot inductee. A lot depends on who else is on the ballot. Some voters are strange about voting too many guys per ballot.

MitchC

January 15th, 2010
7:39 pm

Dave, it would be nice the see Glavine work out a post baseball position with the Braves. After spending 17 years here, he shouldn’t work for anyone else. I also find it interesting that the Braves accounced this, around the same time that it was announced that Greg Maddux has taken a front office job with the Cubs.

Glavine should be a lock to get in the Hall on the first ballot. 305 wins, 2 Cy’s, World Series MVP, What else do the writers need to see? I’ll admit I was furious when he left the Braves to go to the Mets, but, that’s all in the past now. One day it will be a thrill to look in Cooperstown, and think that three of their members, once pitched back to back to back in the same rotation for the Braves.

David O'Brien

January 15th, 2010
7:39 pm

Chuck James: You misread. There’s no doubt Maddux will get in on first ballot. The question was whether he’d be unanimous. There have been no unanimous selections. Ever. But he should be (and probably won’t, for the reason I stated).

ncgary

January 15th, 2010
7:41 pm

old coronado sailor, just like in the song …, them was the dayz

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:41 pm

DOB I think every fan in baseball,not just Braves’ fans, would agree with your 7:30 post. I think the votes should be public and if you vote against someone you should be able to explain why. If your reason has nothing to do with baseball or its because everybody else was voting for him then you should automatically lose your voting privilage.

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
7:44 pm

I think Smoltz will be a first ballot HOF, too. But I think Glavine will be on the 2nd.

Redstick19

January 15th, 2010
7:45 pm

If your reason has nothing to do with baseball or its because everybody else was voting for him then you should automatically lose your voting privilage.

Well, then there’d be very few – if any- voters. Everyone makes it personal once in a while. Human nature, my man. Example: Alomar not making because of spitting incident. You can’t tell me they turned him away becuase his numbers weren’t good enough.

Wayne in Utah

January 15th, 2010
7:45 pm

Unanimous or not, really doesn’t matter. He’s still in first ballot.

Gotta run. Time to go home!

nolie

January 15th, 2010
7:47 pm

I’m guessing there will be more than one who won’t vote for him. nobody has ever hit 99% though 10 or so have made 98%. If there are 300 voters 99% would mean 3 didn’t vote for him.
I gotta say that I think there have been guys more deserving that Greg who weren’t unanimous

Wayne in Utah

January 15th, 2010
7:49 pm

One final thought. It would have been cool if all 3 had hung ‘em up together. I think the voters would have put them all in together.

Way cool.

nolie

January 15th, 2010
7:50 pm

Wayne Glavine was one of the 3 best pitchers of his generation (Maddux, Clemons(cheater), Glavine), a top 5 lefty ever, Eric

I’p put Johnson over him without doubt. ma

Tomahawkin

January 15th, 2010
7:51 pm

From The Last Blog

TnBrian

If you are still on then much props in the philly.com post you did a few days ago

I see that I got someone on the Philliy.com. I use the same name as I here here on the Phillies forum getting 411 about the Phillies and how we stack up against them…

Time to bump some old Mobb Deep “Survival of the Fittest”

lexbrave

January 15th, 2010
7:53 pm

dave, surely you know that the players dont decide which cap they are imortalized in in cooperstown. the hall decides that. so it doesnt matter which team maddux prefers.

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:54 pm

Redstick if you started doing that then voters would straighten up. That is my whole point on taking it away. Being allowed to vote for that is a privilage and should be handled as such.

Topher24

January 15th, 2010
7:55 pm

So, DOB, what’s the deal with Bowman saying the Braves are unlikely to sign Damon whereas you continue to stoke the hot stove fires of hope in us poor wretch die hard fans??? Different sources say different things, I suppose? Or is it just hope for a better tomorrow?

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:55 pm

Nolie I agree. I thought of him right after I posted that. However, considering Clemons is a cheater, I would still put him in the top 3. However, agreed RJ was better.

James C R

January 15th, 2010
7:56 pm

From a seasoned executive( pompous egotistical fool)

TOM GLAVINE

Just accept whatever Glavine wants. Tell him you love him. Plan a wonderful future for Glavine and the Braves, get out of his way and cheer his results.

Atlanta loves Tom Glavine……
We all need hero’s
Cherish him, appreciate him, and encourage him.

On the side : When the Braves meet the Yankees in the 2010 World Series, wouldn’t it be nice to have Glavine available to win it for the HOME team.

Why not a storybook ending?

Glavine Our Hero,

Forever James

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
7:57 pm

Nolie there may have been a couple more deserving of unanimous, but do two wrongs make a right?

Summer of 91

January 15th, 2010
7:58 pm

Get Damon and dump Melke, we can’t roll w/ 2/3rds the Yankee OF, I’d take Matty baseball over Melky any day.

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
7:59 pm

You think Piazza will make it on the first ballot? He should. He’s one of the greatest offensive catchers of all time.

Summer of 91

January 15th, 2010
8:00 pm

hate to say it James C R , but Glavine would get ROCKED, everything else was nice though

the real Andy

January 15th, 2010
8:01 pm

so, if laroche was available for 4.5 mill (up to 6 with incentives), why did we go with an old guy with questionable defense, coming off an injury?

Chuck James was Solid Until the 6th!!!

January 15th, 2010
8:02 pm

DOB

Yeh if you read further in to my post, I said unanimous, just forgot to on the first mention… I meant, to clarify, if he doesn’t get in UNANIMOUS then the idiot/s did it just to be that “guy” behind the scene so he can brag behind closed doors that he was the reason. Or some of these guys hold long personal vendettas because they may have had a bad run in with Mad Dog back in like ‘89 and havn’t let it go …. That’s usually the case when guys like Ruth and Williams didn’t get in unaninmously as they %1000000 should have! Especially when you consider Ruth had 96 wins as a pitcher with an ERA in the 3’s!! That’s ABSURD!!!

Jeter

January 15th, 2010
8:03 pm

“On the side : When the Braves meet the Yankees in the 2010 World Series, wouldn’t it be nice to have Glavine available to win it for the HOME team”

I like it. Sounds good. It’s only right.

Jeter

January 15th, 2010
8:05 pm

Yeah, Glaus is “old.”

Billy Walsh

January 15th, 2010
8:05 pm

Add Jack Morris to list of pitchers who should be in the HOF

AustinBrave

January 15th, 2010
8:06 pm

CB- AustinBrave, just bought my tickets for Mar.3,4, and 5 games. What days are you going?

Sorry, went to dinner. I am flyimg in on the 10th, hope to see the Yankees on Thursday then will see the Pirates, and Tornoto. Really just can’t wait, meeting some old buddies there.

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
8:06 pm

What about Bert Blylevin? In or Out?

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:08 pm

Nolie there may have been a couple more deserving of unanimous, but do two wrongs make a right? Eric

I know that this is gonna be a totally unpopular outlook, but I understand why some voters feel that way and vote accordingly. If they think that Babe or Ty or Tom was a better player and didn’t get unanimous, why let someone you value less do it?
It’s not like it would usually mean that the guy wouldn’t still get in on the first ballot. Greg is gonna get in almost assuredly.
I’m not saying that I would vote that way, but I understand the appeal it has to some. and in the right circumstance I might.
I’m not trying to convince anybody that I’m right. ;)

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
8:09 pm

Joe I would say it depends on who he is up against. My gut says no. While he was one of the greatest offensive catchers, he was also one of the worst defensive catchers. Also I would never consider him one of the best players of his generation. Example being, McCann is one of the best offensive catchers right now, but do you consider him one of the best players right now, regardless what position they play?

I do believe Piazza is a HOF player. Dont want to make no mistake about that, just not 1st ballot. Sort of why I dont think Smoltz is 1st ballot. I believe he was one of the great pitchers of his generation, behind a few obviously, but not one of the best players of his generation. I think 1st ballot should be given to the players who went down as one of the best of their generations, regardless of what position they played. If you put Piazza’s numbers at another position you would never consider him 1st ballot, maybe not even the HOF. So hard for me to put him on 1st ballot. Just my opinion though.

Alan

January 15th, 2010
8:10 pm

DOB, you’re right. Maddux should be a sure-fire first-ballot unanimous pick for the Hall of Fame, but he won’t be. No one has been — ever. He’ll get in for sure, and he’ll probably get 90+ percent of the vote. In my opinion, Glavine (with 300 lifetime wins) deserves to get in on the first ballot, but I don’t think he will, and I don’t think Smoltz will get in on the first ballot, either. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes several years before Smoltz gets elected. Just like you, I don’t have a whole lot of faith in the electorate.

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:11 pm

Add Jack Morris to list of pitchers who should be in the HOF Billy Walsh

borderline IMO. won’t matter to me either way. I’d vote Bly in first, myself. again not trying to sell my position

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
8:12 pm

Nolie what if every voter thought that way and no one voted for him. Then he would never be on the ballot again. I realize this would never happen, but that is how stupid it is not to vote for a guy because everybody else is. It is plain ludicrous. You are voting on that guy. Not guys who played 50 years ago.

the real Andy

January 15th, 2010
8:13 pm

i do think that maddux has a legitimate chance to be a unanimous first ballot choice.

two large reasons, other than his obviously deserving career

1) he is the poster boy of non-enhanced performance who did his best work in the heart of the steroid era. Hall voters obviously let this influence them on McGwire (and certainly Palmeiro, Clemens, Sosa, etc will suffer their wrath as well). i think it will factor into their decision.

2) maddux has a pretty unanimous good-guy image. i met him as a green horn sports writer, and he treated me with absolutely nothing but graciousness, despite the fact that i pestered him a little about the strike five weeks before it happened. i have to wonder if there is a single sportswriter that has it in for him.

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:14 pm

You are voting on that guy. Not guys who played 50 years ago. Eric

I said that nobody would agree with it, but that is my thought on the matter after much cogitatin”.

HOF Voting

January 15th, 2010
8:15 pm

A quirky solution would be to make the voting public for ten years, and then close it up again. That way one or two could get voted in unanimous, and it would be common knowledge that making the vote public was the catalyst for the sudden change.

That way the non-unanimous votings of Babe and the like would have a secure place, as the first unanimous player(s) would have an unspoken asterisk.

Then close it back up, because the angle of guarding against the unanimous vote to guard the legacies would be over with.

Just an idea.

Billy Walsh

January 15th, 2010
8:16 pm

Piazza is a first ballot HOF. That is a no brainer. He is the greatest offensive catcher of all time. Look at his numbers when he was with the Dodgers (96-01). Put those numbers up at any position and you are a first ballot HOF. 36 hr 113 rbi and 308 batting average in his 16 year career is a first ballot resume.

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
8:16 pm

Eric,

I see what you mean. Piazza, however, has the most HRs hit by a catcher; was named to the all star team 12 times; has 10 silver slugger awards; and He’s Italian.

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:16 pm

I agree that Mad Dog has a fair chance of collecting all the votes not just because of his career accomplishments.

ncgary

January 15th, 2010
8:17 pm

i agree with bert that curveball alone was hof

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:18 pm

I would vote the Pizza man in first ballot… unless I thought there was a chance he might be unanimous J/K. :)

Billy Walsh

January 15th, 2010
8:19 pm

Tim Raines deserves to be in too

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
8:21 pm

Joe I agree that he is defiently HOF material and withing his first 3 years. My only thought, is if all position players were stuck together would you still think he was one of the best of his generation? My thought no. The only reason I can see putting him down 1st ballot is that to my knowledge he has no link to steroids and if voters refuse to put in steroid users, which I disagree with but thats another day, then they have to put in someone.

Venice Jim

January 15th, 2010
8:21 pm

Since my two all-time favorite players are Greg Maddux and Tom Seaver, I would love to see the two of them at the top of the list for best percentage of the Hall of Fame vote, regardless of the order…

Heath

January 15th, 2010
8:22 pm

I voted on the poll that smoltz will be eventually, but not on the first ballot. I just get the impression that the people casting the votes will punish him for that time as a closer. I think he could very easily be a first-ballot guy, but as DOB said…some voters are just odd with their reasoning.

Eric from MO

January 15th, 2010
8:23 pm

the real Andy I at one time thought the same thing you did too on your number one. If you refuse to vote for steroid users then you have to vote for somebody. However, there will be at least one or two people who wont.

ncscoots

January 15th, 2010
8:23 pm

Of the players in the HOF, who here remembers on which ballot they got in? Anybody? Bueller? Didn’t think so.

There aren’t any shootout points awarded for making it on the first, second, or tenth ballot, nor for percentage of votes upon the entry. I can’t imagine one player in the HOF berating one of his brethren over how many ballots it took to get in: “Sorry, Mr. Rice, REAL Hall of Famers get in on the first ballot. Please don’t sit at our table.”

In other words, who gives a happy bleep, LOL? You’re in…the…Hall…of Fame. Binary solution, no gray area. Like that.

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:25 pm

Since my two all-time favorite players are Greg Maddux and Tom Seaver, I would love to see the two of them at the top of the list for best percentage of the Hall of Fame vote, regardless of the order… VJ

I think there is a good chance you will get your wish. Tom Terrific was almost a Brave too remember. I love drop & drive guys and Tom was a great example

BravesFanChris25

January 15th, 2010
8:26 pm

I’m finally able to see The Hurt Locker. I ordered it on demand PPV order. I’m enjoying it so far :)

nolie

January 15th, 2010
8:26 pm

Scoots, how ’bout iffen you gots to wait for the OldTimers committee to get ya in?

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
8:30 pm

Eric,

Did you vote for Kevin Appier?

Chuck James was Solid Until the 6th!!!

January 15th, 2010
8:30 pm

Joeroch

Bert should %100 be in by now. Especially because of his consistency and durability and what was he 9 wins shy or whatever of 300?? And yes Piazza is a 1rst ballot NO DOUBT. The thing that baffled me about this years HOF candidates was McGriff. The man was as consistent a 1rst baseman in the history of the game for nearly 2 decades, helped lead the Braves to a WS title and had 493 HR’s and got what %20?!?!??!?! That is absurd too!!! He better get in one day or the system is flawed. Because if he hit those extra 7 measley HR’s, he would have been a shoe-in, no? He was never linked to steroids, was a class-act and had one hellofa commercial and the hat he wore in that commercial should get him in alone!

All joking aside, I was expecting McGriff to get atleast %60 votes if not elected….. Something is wrong…

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
8:31 pm

scoots,

I guarantee you the player knows what ballot they got in on.

ncscoots

January 15th, 2010
8:34 pm

nolie, I gots no problem with the Veterans’ Committee, either, LOL. With no offense to DOB, those guys are as likely to be on target with selections as the BBWAA.

Now, if folks want to get hot and bothered about a player who should or should not be in the Hall (in their opinion), that’s something I can get. The number of ballots and vote percentages? Seems superfluous.

FJR

January 15th, 2010
8:36 pm

DOB,

You seen Crazy Heart yet? Soundtrack looks unreal amazing.

Supes

January 15th, 2010
8:36 pm

DOB,

Excellent blog, you’ve been turning out great stuff in the off-season. I haven’t posted much but I always make sure I read it.

On the HOF, no doubt in my mind and I’m being biased as a Braves fan that Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine should all go on the 1st ballot all as Braves. It would be awesome to see that, of course they won’t go the same year but it’ll still be a tremendous honor and something that us Braves fans can celebrate.

I would be very happy to see the Braves offering Glavine and eventually Smoltz a job with the Organization in some capacity.

Oh, and I still think it’s a travesty that Robbie Alomar didn’t get into the HOF on his 1st ballot, I hated him as a blue jay (as they beat the Braves in those WS), but he was a heck of a 2nd baseman for a decade.

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
8:37 pm

Frank Thomas… First ballot?

Alex

January 15th, 2010
8:37 pm

DOB-

What are your thoughts on the Braves making a run at the recently DFA’ed Eric Byrnes rather than go for Damon? I know the injury history is a bit of a concern, but the defense and the potential power bat seems to cancel that out for me.

Also, the Big Star box set is amazing…thanks for bringing it up in here, I forgot about it and just picked it up. Best box set I’ve listened to since the Faces “Five Guys Walk into a Bar…”

Chuck James was Solid Until the 6th!!!

January 15th, 2010
8:37 pm

Eric from MO

In regards to Piazza and McCann, they are what they are Catchers!! So when they are going to be viewed on the ballot, the voters have to look at how they match up to Catchers in the hall. If McCann keeps what he is doing up he will go down as one of the top 5 Catchers of All-Time. So I think Piazza gets in 1rst ballot because he was the best offensively at his position throughout his entire career which spanned a solid 2 decades of consistent power!

Summer of 91

January 15th, 2010
8:40 pm

a player knows when he was drafted too but does it matter in the end? I gotta agree w/ scoots…If you make it in that is all that matters at the end of the day.- Or just make another hall of fame and call it “The Real Hall of Fame” and put all the first ballot guys in there.

keylargo

January 15th, 2010
8:46 pm

Do you wonder what the enemy is thinking about the Braves? Here is the Phillies take on the offseason moves the Braves have made and what they expect out of them next year.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/81300842.html

Don

January 15th, 2010
8:52 pm

Is the current player payroll budget going to be the same in 2020, 2030, and beyond. This is about the same budget that it was 5, 6 years ago? Is there never any leniency to get a player who can help the club, without having to trade or cut another? This budget stuff has gotten very old!

This is not a compelling team right now, and although Damon would not be a total cure, it would at least raise more interest. As stands now, I see a team with 80 +/- wins in 2010, a ho-hummer for Cox’s last year.

joerochester

January 15th, 2010
8:55 pm

They don’t believe in the signing of Wagner at all.

Tomahawkin

January 15th, 2010
8:56 pm

I’d Take Frank Thomas

As an Baseball player that was a Football Player at Auburn, Hell Yeah!

Thomas and Griffey were the most Dominiant hitters from 1993-1999…

Too Bad That Griffey didn’t come to the “A” in 2000

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