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7,408 comments Add your comment
KC
January 4th, 2010
3:49 pm
P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z, 89 RBI from a run producer who is hitting behind Chipper, Glaus, mcCann, and Escobar? VERY doable.
As for Glaus, I clearly stated in that post that this assumes 150 games played (which I know can’t be assumed at all). But if Glaus plays in 150 games, those numbers are VERY much in line with everything he’s done in recent years.
The reason we got Glaus at that price isn’t because he can’t hit, but because he can’t play 3rd base every day anymore, and because he’s considered a bit of a health risk. IF he remains healthy, he’ll hit.
If you live in the ATL area, I’m up for a wager. We could settle up at a game. I’m not high stakes… a couple beers will suffice. In this economy, I wouldn’t want to break you!
sri
January 4th, 2010
3:50 pm
Am not sure if PWHjort already posted this..nice blog..
http://capitolavenueclub.com/ .
He has an image with Damon’s HR’s overlaid on Yankee stadium/Turner field.. And a short tutorial on how to do it yourself.. (you need a lot of patience/software)
Goldenglove002
January 4th, 2010
3:51 pm
Purdue Thomas, I like that lineup. McLouth infront of Escobar could definitely result in alot of runs scored. If Chipper reverts back to his old self and Glaus hits the HR’s we are hoping for, that will compete along with our pitching well.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
January 4th, 2010
3:52 pm
flange 1………dude, the shyster tried to add all kind of stipulations to the KJ bet.
I said all along that there was NO WAY that the Braves would tender Kelly a contract……..nor be able to trade him.
The shyster tried to slide a fast one on me by saying that “if the Braves cut KJ and then re-signed him for less than $3 mil, then I lose the bet”. That scenario had absolutely nothing to do with the statement I made about the original bet.
There was a lot of talk about Kelly accepting a 20% pay cut (the max under the CBA) and sign. I said NO FREAKING WAY. That isnt how it works. If offered salary arbitration, I said that Kelly would be in line to get awarded $3-$3.5 mil, despite his suck A$$ 2009.
Just to clarify, I stated that I would bet anyone on here $100 that if the Braves were to offer KJ salary arbitration….that Kelly makes over $3 mil. You have to remember that many people on here said that I was wrong, that no arbitrator would award KJ more than $3 mil.
Then they shyster tried to twist and add stipulations. After the next day, I called the bet off because he is a dishonest person. As it turns out, I had nothing to worry about. At worst, it was a push for me. However that wasnt the point. I dont do business with shysters.
DAP
January 4th, 2010
3:53 pm
doggsbrekky My understanding is that the FO offered Vazquez a “quiet” extension but way below what his agent wants and expected after 2009…. anyone else hear similar
DOB said no such thing happened.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
January 4th, 2010
3:56 pm
KC……….despite my doubts as to our ability to stay healthy (offensively) and score runs, I hope that we will in fact rebound and contend. We have to score runs. Also, Frank Wren has shown the ability to swing a key trade during the season.
If this team as constructed played the whole season, I would be tempted to take you up on your bet. However, I think that this team will look different during the season.
JoeC10
January 4th, 2010
3:56 pm
I’m all for Johnny Damon, as long as he brings back the 2004 look…..Jesus in LF for ATL
DAP
January 4th, 2010
3:56 pm
sri, i count at least 7 damon homers that wouldnt have been out at turner field. a couple more are right on the line so its hard to tell.
richbrave
January 4th, 2010
3:57 pm
ugaccountant:
Your take on SHEFF is great IMO. I don’t want to have even a sniff of DYE if SHEFFIELD is out there.
Burdell
January 4th, 2010
3:57 pm
Is that obvious edge in hitting going to be worth an additional $4million a year?
If the options for that money are Damon, Nady, or no one, Damon is the only one that will make the team better. The real question is what Damon’s price will ultimately be. His agent reportedly wanted 3/39 initially, then dropped to 2/20. The Braves would likely want that last number chopped (no pun intended) by more than half to something like 1/7. I doubt he’ll go that low.
dogsbrekky
January 4th, 2010
3:58 pm
DAP and whoever else – no !!!!!!!!
my firm understanding is that the FO spoke directly to whoever reps Vazquez and asked about the price for a 2-3 year deal…… I have not been told the details and do not know or frankly care if Dobi was told but I am categorically told we wanted Javier for another 2 years and asked about a price… not sure legally if that is an offer but is it close enough…… am told the price was >>>> post Ted coffers at the Bravos
Daslied
January 4th, 2010
3:58 pm
<strong..P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z (January 4th, 2010 3:40 pm)
KC……….your 3:25pm post is, let’s say, very optimistic. 27 homers, 28 doubles and 102 RBI’s from a guy that we’re paying $2 mil.
What does his salary have to do with anything? Yes, he’s really cheap, but the guy has been a monster hitter most of his career.
sidslidkid
January 4th, 2010
3:59 pm
We got 4 “shyster’s” at 3:52. Drink up!
Daslied
January 4th, 2010
3:59 pm
I love some stellar HTML work…
KC
January 4th, 2010
4:01 pm
L.E.N.T.Z.: Yeah, I have a lot of confidence in Wren. I think he’ll make one more move soon. Additionally though, the nice thing about what’s happened so far is that we haven’t spent any of our young talent. If fact, we’ve added to it. So there will certainly be plenty of trade chips, should the need arise to swing a deal at any point in the season.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2010
4:01 pm
We got 4 “shyster’s” at 3:52. Drink up!
I forgot about the drinking game, thanks for reminding me, LOL. Sun’s over the yardarm, somewhere, what the heck…
ryan c
January 4th, 2010
4:02 pm
In response to this question: “Is that obvious edge in hitting going to be worth an additional $4million a year?”
BEAR,
Answer to your question….ABSOLUTELY!! and, according to fangraphs, damon was an equivalent defender to cabrera last year (both barely above average in left field). also, according to fangraphs, damon was worth 13.6 million on the field while cabrera was only worth 7.2. so, to answer your question again…YES, johnny damon is worth much more than melky cabrera….about 6.4 million more. i still dont believe melky cabrera starts the year with the braves as i believe there are still teams out there that would consider him their starting centerfielder. cabrera for a top 5 prospect sounds good to me.
N8
January 4th, 2010
4:03 pm
“However, I expect Javier Vazquez to win more games than either Lowe or Hudson.” Lentz
WOW. Way to go out on a limb there Paul. LOL
Macon Braves (RIP)
January 4th, 2010
4:03 pm
If I’m not mistaken, Heyward played about half of his minor league innings in CF. Correct me if I’m wrong…
Sorry, but you’re wrong. According to Baseball-Reference.com, In 3 minor league seasons, Heyward has only 17 games in CF.
LongtimeBravesfan
January 4th, 2010
4:04 pm
A much better option for the bench would be Fernando Tatis – can play 1B, 3B, LF, RF and pinch-hit. He’s a pretty good hitter with some power. And would probably sign for about 1 M.
Jaglawyer
January 4th, 2010
4:06 pm
P.a.u.l.L.e.n.t.z.
I got a new nickname for you that I sure hope catches because I think it is spot-on: “S.M.I.T.W.”–Smartest Man In The World.”
I read your posts/predictions/post-prediction back slaps and marvel at your incredible ability to see the future and never make an incorrect statement. From Lowe’s contract being tough to move, Francouer’s inability to hit, Kelly Johnson’s non-tender . . .just think if you put that incredible focus on something productive, like running chicks on Craig’s List . . . ooops.
I used to get a kick out of some of your posts, but the constant need for attention is getting old bud. Maybe lose the periods and just return to your former self?
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:06 pm
Purdue Thomas, ESPN player cards have pitches per plate appearance, although you might have to be an Insider to see them. I’ve posted a few relevant ones for 2009 below:
Damon: 4.06 per plate apperance
Cameron : 3.96
Dye: 4.20 (this seemed to be an outlier based on previous years)
Bay: 3.99
Holliday : 3.60
McLouth: 3.84
Diaz: 3.45
sri
January 4th, 2010
4:07 pm
DAP, yes atleast 7 would’nt have made it.. Like you said earlier a more realistic line from Damon next year would be his away split (.284/.349/.446/.795). Cameron’s splits were (.250/.342/.452/.795). If Wren now signs Damon, that is a big blunder.
Random
January 4th, 2010
4:08 pm
DAP (January 4th, 2010 2:36 pm): “no, laroche was the same player everywhere. so-so in the first half, really good in the 2nd half.”
In his 3 full yrears in Atlanta (04-06), LaRoche OPS’d .842. In his 2 full years in Pittsburgh (07-08), he OPS’d .819. He “clearly thrived” in Atlanta.
“also, laroche was never approached with an offer, and may have accepted it if he had been, we dont know if he would have so you cant use him as an example of a guy who wouldnt have signed an extension with the braves.”
Neither you nor I really know what offers were made to whom — but that is not germane to my argument anyway.
It is obvious that “the Braves concluded that they would not be able to sign LaRoche to a contract at the price ($/years) they were willing to pay.”
How can you argue with that? It’s dam near tautological.
(Btw, LaRoche was a free agent — an “extension” was not possible.)
“same with vazquez. he may have accepted an offer if offered one, so this is a bad example trying to make your point.”
doG, what have I become to you — your personal bête noire? Will you really dispute anything I have to say, regardless of how ridiculous it makes you look? (The sky is blue, you know.)
(Like you trying to argue that it is easier to trade a less valuable player than a more valuable player — yeah, right. You were a frigin genius there.)
I admitted it up front — it is only my hunch that the Braves concluded that they would not be able to extend Vazquez at a price they were willing to pay.
Make of it what you will.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
January 4th, 2010
4:10 pm
Macon Braves (RIP)
January 4th, 2010
4:03 pm
If I’m not mistaken, Heyward played about half of his minor league innings in CF. Correct me if I’m wrong…
Sorry, but you’re wrong. According to Baseball-Reference.com, In 3 minor league seasons, Heyward has only 17 games in CF.
—————-
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=heywar001jas
says 34 games in CF for Jason H.
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:10 pm
Purdue Thomas,
According to baseballreference.com, Heyward has only played 17 games of his minor league career in CF, although there are 10 games in which he played “OF” that could be CF. Here’s the link:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=heywar001jas
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:12 pm
THE BEAR just beat me to it
flange 1
January 4th, 2010
4:13 pm
to the blogger with no name,
Don’t re hash your argument with me, I read it all the first time and firmly believe that Random was correct.
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:14 pm
Btw, how sad is it for the Pirates that they are non-tendering guys who are then picked up at close to an arb salary by the Nationals?
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
January 4th, 2010
4:15 pm
Ryan C,
Melky Cabrera played 103 games in CF last year according to http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabreme01.shtml
Why would they play him there if Damon was his equal?
DAP
January 4th, 2010
4:17 pm
doggsbrekky
hey buddy, i love you like a blogger, but ive got to go with DOB on this one. im not soubting you heard things, but DOB talks to the players, their agents, the GM, ect, and usually has the most info, so…gotta go with what he says on the subject.
heres what DOB said today when someone said maybe javy was actually offered a contract:
Nope, didn’t happen. I texted with Javy several times in weeks leading up to trade, including once a few days before the deal. He had heard nothing from Braves, either about an extension or being traded. His agent would not begin negotiations with the Braves without telling Javy, who had hoped Braves would approach him about an extension (he told me that late in season and again early in offseason).
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:18 pm
I could buy Tatis as a Util player. Would still prefer Shef to him in the pinch hitting role, but if Shef isn’t an option than Tatis could make a some sense.
Macon Braves (RIP)
January 4th, 2010
4:19 pm
BEAR—Where do you see 34 at, it says 17 by CF down at the fielding stats? By the way, that’s the same page I was looking on. It does show 10 games as “OF”, so some of those could be CF, but even if all were, at most he played 27 games in CF so far.
Redstick19
January 4th, 2010
4:19 pm
Unless Braves plan to flip Melky real soon, I don’t see why Damon would be money well spent. He’s not the run-producer that the team needs, and instead is more like a table setter for the big run-producer that Braves are looking for. I don’t know that moving McClouth down in the lineup is what Braves had in mind for the big bat in middle/bottom of lineup. That’s not to say I’m totaly opposed to Damon- just as a complimentary piece to another move.
Macon Braves (RIP)
January 4th, 2010
4:20 pm
But anyway you see it, Purdue asked to be corrected if he was wrong…and he was.
Nova Scotia Steve - Roy Halladay wins 2010 NL Cy Young Award -
January 4th, 2010
4:21 pm
We’re not even really hearing anything on the rumor mill in Braves land…lately anyway.
The Uggla rumors have gone nowhere. Same with Nady.
Things seem eerly quiet in Braves land…yet we’ve pumped out 73 pages of bloggage since before x-mas.
WOW
Redstick19
January 4th, 2010
4:23 pm
Nova Scotia
Hopefully the silence means that the Braves are working on something large. That often happens just before a big move… it also unfortunately happens when there truly is nothing going on.
brian
January 4th, 2010
4:24 pm
Heyward hits minor league lefties just fine. He will be eased in to the majors though so I could easily see Cox getting Diaz at bats there. I do think it is important for Heyward to have some at bats against lefties early on – how else will he learn to make adjustments.
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:24 pm
Unless Braves plan to flip Melky real soon, I don’t see why Damon would be money well spent. He’s not the run-producer that the team needs, and instead is more like a table setter for the big run-producer that Braves are looking for. I don’t know that moving McClouth down in the lineup is what Braves had in mind for the big bat in middle/bottom of lineup. That’s not to say I’m totaly opposed to Damon- just as a complimentary piece to another move.
Here are the projected 3-6 spots in the current lineup:
3. Chipper
4. Glaus
5. McCann
6. Escobar
Where do you get the impression this team needs another run producer? A good table setter to combine with Prado in front of these guys would allow McLouth to move to the 7 hole, allowing the lineup to go 7 deep with “run producers”. What the Braves need is someone to lead off, not a #6 hitter (since McCann is a fine #5).
ryan c
January 4th, 2010
4:25 pm
BEAR,
Because damon cant throw and an arm matters much more in center field than it does in left. Just because cabrera played center field doesnt make him a hands-down better left fielder than johnny damon. melky cabrera is a better fielder (not that much of a better “left-fielder”), but damon is a far superior hitter.
Jessee James
January 4th, 2010
4:26 pm
If you had Damon at leadoff, McLouth would bat 2nd against righthanded pitchers.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
January 4th, 2010
4:27 pm
Macon Braves, I see where you got your number. Here is where I got 34. If you look down the line from year to year the CF adds up to 34. Did they screw up their addition of numbers or am I missing something? I don’t honestly know. Can you figure it out? Let me know if you can.
nolie
January 4th, 2010
4:28 pm
Friendly wager (no money – just braging rights0), with ANYBODY that wants to bet that Hudson has the better season of the 3 mentioned guys in 2010. N*
what kinda bet is that? If he can’t have a better year in Atlanta than Javi has in the NY bandbox, then he needs to hang it up.
Tomahawk Talk
January 4th, 2010
4:30 pm
he said hed have one up today and hasnt so that has to mean hes up to something maybe Braves are doing something!
unbelievable
January 4th, 2010
4:31 pm
“nova scotia steve -We’re not even really hearing anything on the rumor mill in Braves land…lately anyway.”
well rosenthal’s column today has us landing Damon, there is a little bit of news for you
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:31 pm
If you had Damon at leadoff, McLouth would bat 2nd against righthanded pitchers.
Based on what? Prado has proven that he can handle batting 2nd, and Bobby would likely leave him there unless he suddenly starts to struggle there. The truth is that neither of us know what Bobby would do in that situation, but I’m inclined to think he’d leave Prado at 2.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2010
4:33 pm
Here are the projected 3-6 spots in the current lineup:
3. Chipper
4. Glaus
5. McCann
6. Escobar
Where do you get the impression this team needs another run producer?
Any team for which Escobar is the best option for the middle of the order needs another run producer. You guys seem to think hitting with RISP is a repeatable skill, or something. Escobar is a terrific player, and I’ve been a fan since his low minors, but he is nowhere near the offensive player this team needs hitting in the middle. Getting another bat to back McCann would allow Escobar to hit 2, where he really could deliver plus offense for both his field position and lineup slot. Expecting him to deliver as a middle bat is an outsized expectation that can only lead to heartache, LOL.
DAP
January 4th, 2010
4:33 pm
random it is only my hunch that the Braves concluded that they would not be able to extend Vazquez at a price they were willing to pay.
ok, fine. if you admit that its just a hunch and there isnt any evidence of it, especially no the laroche situation, i dont know what we are arguing about. im glad we sorted that out.
Will you really dispute anything I have to say,
well, you specifically addressed me in a post for some reason asking a specific question and i answered. if you dont want to hear from me in the future, dont use my name and your chances of a response from me will go down.
Like you trying to argue that it is easier to trade a less valuable player than a more valuable player — yeah, right.
yeah i remember that. thats not what i said, actually. you were for some reason simplifying trades down to how good a players is and how many years he is signed for, when in reality being able to trade a player has many more variables than that. hopefully i helped you understand a little bit better.
Macon Braves (RIP)
January 4th, 2010
4:33 pm
THE BEAR—You’re right, I think maybe they just can’t add…LOL. But it’s safe to say that Heyward has played the vast majority of his games in RF with only a small amount in CF.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
January 4th, 2010
4:36 pm
Macon Braves, you are right. I found I was counting the splits in the years up above. He has 17 in CF after all.
N8
January 4th, 2010
4:36 pm
“what kinda bet is that? If he can’t have a better year in Atlanta than Javi has in the NY bandbox, then he needs to hang it up.” nolie
Oh, nolie. The Jedi Master appears to need to be taught a lesson from the apprentice, huh?
I wouldn’t expect anything less than a park adjusted comparison at season’s end.
dogsbrekky
January 4th, 2010
4:37 pm
scoots – NOOOOOOOOOOOO
please let us believe that Yunie is the answer to our offensive woes… and that the RISP 2009 nos are nothing other than a stat aberration
please let Esky be even better in ‘10
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
January 4th, 2010
4:37 pm
This is really funny, both of us finding the other right. Actually 17 is the correct number. LOL
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
January 4th, 2010
4:39 pm
BTW MACON, I have a niece who is a surgical nurse in your town of Macon.
Goldenglove002
January 4th, 2010
4:39 pm
So apparently the Braves were willing to eat 9 million on Lowe, and still never found a suitor. I’m surprised.
Goldenglove002
January 4th, 2010
4:39 pm
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100104&content_id=7872294&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
JoeC10
January 4th, 2010
4:39 pm
ncscoots, check Escobar’s numbers last year. He hit much better when hitting 5th and 6th than he did 1st or 2nd. Escobar was clutch with runners on all year so how is he not suited for driving in runs?
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2010
4:40 pm
ncscoots: Escobar, to me, is a fine lower portion hitter or #2 hitter. Not middle of the order. I don’t know who’s line up that was, but to me a #6 hitter isn’t a “middle of the line up” hitter. It’s not quite Lower line up either. It’s the tweener. My perspective is one that has middle of the order being 3-4-5. lower order 6-7-8. Perhaps it is because I’m a NL based fan.
That said, I don’t see this team acquiring the bat you allude to. Escobar will either be the #2 hitter if Uggla type is acquired or a #6 hitter if a Damon type is acquired…. Actually, he’ll probably be a #6 type even if uggla is acquired as Prado will be at first and Glaus on the DL.
Brooklyn Braves Brawler
January 4th, 2010
4:41 pm
I am not opposed to having Johnny Damon in LF this year but that further implies that they would then move McClouth for a hitter of some kind or salary relief. That means Melky in CF and Diaz or Heyward in RF.
I am not opposed to it, I just don’t like being so lefty heavy. Makes me wanna have the DH in the NL.
dogsbrekky
January 4th, 2010
4:41 pm
DAP – let me repeat from someone I trust with my left kahuna (and I trust no-one with the right one) that JV’s agent was told directly we want Vazquez and how much… we are here, and the response was not amenable to our cheap ATL asses…… so either my cuzz is a liar or someone else is a liar…
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:42 pm
ncscoots,
I was about to post Escobar’s career splits to prove a point that he’s better hitting in the 5 or 6 hole than at the top of the order. However, I took at look at his career splits and they are REMARKABLY consistent:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=escobyu01&year=Career&t=b
He does seem to have a higher OBP and SLG batting 5th or 6th, but they are close enough to his leadoff and 2nd stats that it could be a result of smaller sample size. Either way I think that looking at these numbers shows that Escobar is the type of hitter who could THRIVE in the middle of an order. Considering how often the #2 hitter is asked to “move the runner” at the expense of his own at-bat (even though it’s not a great strategy, IMO), I’d much rather see Escobar batting 6th than 2nd. That’s a spot that requires him to sacrifice himself less often, allowing him to produce at a very high level.
Random
January 4th, 2010
4:42 pm
DAP (January 4th, 2010 3:11 pm): “N8
“the question was ‘what makes you think vazquez would have signed an extension?’ “
Dude, that was not the question. The question was:
“What makes y’all think that the Braves could have signed Vazquez to an extension?
“I feel sure they would have explored that avenue prior to trading him. I think the Braves became convinced that they would not be able to extend Vazquez at a price that they were willing to pay. (But of course I don’t know that — it’s just a hunch.)”
Regardlesss of whether Vazquez thrived here and liked it here and might have liked to stay here — just like LaRoche — that just wouldn’t matter if the Braves decided that they could not extend Vazquez (or sign LaRoche) at a price they were willing to pay. Regardless of whether offers were made or discussions were opened.
“random seems to think that i was a guy assuming vazquez would sign an extension, though ive never said that. but to me, it seems like he is trying to give reasons (bad ones) about why vazquez wouldnt have signed one. i mean, laroche didnt, right? so neither would vazquez have.”
No, dude, those weren’t my points at all. I’m sure both Vazquez and LaRoche would have both signed if the money was right.
I’m just saying that the Braves apparently concluded that they would not be able to extend/sign them at a price that they (the Braves) were willing to pay.
I’m not really going out on a limb here, you know. It’s a fairly vanilla assertion.
PS: “random seems to think that i was a guy assuming vazquez would sign an extension, though ive never said that.”
I’m really not trying to put words in your mouth — I just saw that you had explicitly agreed with one of Lew’s comments about Hudson/Vazquez, which comment was based on the explicit assumption that the Braves would extend Vazquez.
I probably read too much into your remarks — my bad.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2010
4:42 pm
please let Esky be even better in ‘10
In fact, I believe that he actually will be better next year. Folks forget that he doesn’t have all that much big league experience, despite his age. The kid is still learning the right way to play the game at the big-league level, and still learning the full extent of his skills, in my opinion. Escobar getting better, though, has zip to do with my original point, LOL.
18 Wheels of Love
January 4th, 2010
4:43 pm
Michael Stipe is 50!?!?!?!?!?!
Man, what happened to that young kid who grabbed up the Document tape in the mall at Record Bar all those years ago? Damn.
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:45 pm
ncscoots,
I should clarify my argument. While the Braves COULD use another run producer, I personally think the upgrade from McLouth to Damon at leadoff would be greater than the upgrade from Escobar to Player X in the 6-hole, considering the likely options for Player X at this point.
TnBrian
January 4th, 2010
4:45 pm
Say we do end up signing Damon for LF. Are Glaus and Damon what we pictured getting back in October? I’m not saying they’re terrible signings because they aren’t and I’m not surprised Wren might go this route. Wasn’t then either. I just don’t think most had these two in mind a few months back.
Goldenglove002
January 4th, 2010
4:45 pm
Yunel is only 27. What says that his numbers last year were an abberation? No reason to believe he can’t be even better next year.
dogsbrekky
January 4th, 2010
4:48 pm
18 Wheels – Iam 44 and have had a man crush on that old c..t Stipes for many a year, just love the guy…………. not as much as I love Maddog, Ian Moss, Hendrix or ZOLA… but close
Redstick19
January 4th, 2010
4:49 pm
RC
okay, those are good-to-great run producers. I guess my point would be… do you really feel comfortable penciling in Chipper and Glaus as reliable run producers. I’m not real comfortable with their injury history. That leaves McCann and Escobar as reiable run producers. My point of Braves needing a run producer is in tact, given that. At least in my opinion it is. Not saying your wrong or I’m wrong or any of that. Just bouncing around ideas.
ncscoots
January 4th, 2010
4:50 pm
Considering how often the #2 hitter is asked to “move the runner” at the expense of his own at-bat (even though it’s not a great strategy, IMO), I’d much rather see Escobar batting 6th than 2nd.
And I’d rather see him get the extra 100+ plate appearances, because he’ll be swinging the bat in most of them. What, do people think the guy wouldn’t have opportunities to drive in runs at 2, LOL? Mercy.
TennPaul doesn’t consider 6 the middle of the order, and, truthfully, I don’t, either, not really. But it’s close enough for government work, especially if 4 and 5 aren’t true mashers, and you’re looking for that spot to deliver enough to make up for it.
NotAgain
January 4th, 2010
4:52 pm
vazquez had some terrible years and terrible experiences in many different cities in his career.
Vazquez never had a terrible year sine he first came up. His worst year was in NY and he had a 92ERA+. that’s not good but it isn’t terrible. Every other season has been at least average to way above average. The ignorance on this board appalls me sometimes.
Macon Braves (RIP)
January 4th, 2010
4:52 pm
I am not opposed to it, I just don’t like being so lefty heavy. Makes me wanna have the DH in the NL.
How is the lineup “lefty heavy”? Even if McLouth and Damon were together in the outfield, you would have either Diaz or Melky (a switch hitter) in RF. Or if one of those two were traded, you might see another lefty in the outfield with Heyward.
But look at the infield. You’ve got Chipper(SH), Escobar(RH), Prado(RH), and Glaus(RH). McCann is the only lefty in the infield, so unless you have at least two lefties in the outfield you’ve got a “righty heavy” lineup.
DJ
January 4th, 2010
4:52 pm
Goldenglove: that’s $9 mil for the 3 years left, so it’s only $3 mil per year. The other team would still have to fork over $12 mil per season for Lowe.
Random
January 4th, 2010
4:53 pm
THE BEAR (January 4th, 2010 3:31 pm): “I know he has a one year contract but if he does make a strong comeback then I do believe Wren will find a way to sign him. After all Wren is giving him the chance to make his comeback and should have the edge in signing him for another year or two. That might also be done mid-season this year if he is showing no restraints from his injury.”
With all due respect, sir, that just doesn’t make any sense.
If Wren had had any thoughts at all of possibly having Glaus play for the Braves in 2011, he would have definitely negotiated an option clause into his one-year contract.
Well, wouldn’t he? Why not?
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:53 pm
Redstick19,
That’s a pretty fair point. And I don’t know that I am comfortable penciling in Chipper or Glaus for the entire season. But the reality of this season is that with a limited payroll the team has to take some calculated risks, and if Chipper or Glaus are out for an extended period then the season is likely a lost cause anyway. So in my opinion the Braves are best served spending money to aim for the highest upside, as opposed to spending money insuring against risk, since the team likely won’t be in contention anyway if those insurance policies are needed.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
January 4th, 2010
4:55 pm
RC, go look at Escobar’s lead off numbers and then ask yourself……why ain’t he doing it everyday.
RC
January 4th, 2010
4:55 pm
I second Random’s 4:53 post. DOB said one of the major factors in Glaus coming to ATL was the chance to play for Cox. Well, Cox will be gone in 2011, and if Glaus has the type of year after which the Braves would want to bring him back, he’ll probably have increased his market value to the point that he’ll get some attractive multi-year offers from other teams as well.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2010
4:57 pm
I just don’t think most had these two in mind a few months back.
Agreed there. Going into the off-season I thought a substantial trade would occur. Didn’t suspect it would be the Braves sending away a Cy Young candidate for a fourth outfielder and then signing an oft-injured past-his-prime former-third-basemen to play first base for pennies on the dollar, but here we are. It’s underwhelming to look out over the vast enterprise that is the Atlanta Braves and try to compute a winning batting line up. Every iteration possible falls far short of producing the luster and gleam of a potential World Champion caliber team. There aren’t even any young, home-grown power hitters on the team whom the Braves could hope will break out. It’s a lot of guys who might hit 20+ HR, maybe? And some health risks. And this after being only 1 season removed from 2008. The lone youngster is rumored to be a prime candidate for a platoon.
Perhaps this will result in a more memorable season should all the “if’s” fall into place. My fear is that this will only encourage the new GM to continue building off the scrap heap.
18 Wheels of Love
January 4th, 2010
4:57 pm
Stipe is a legend in these parts and not for their commercial success but more for their alternative uprising they created in the SE.
Doggsb, about that same time I picked up Diesel and Dust and had that same allure towards Peter Garrett. Hope they reunite so I can finally see them live. Not sure though with his political position. What’s the feeling on him being in elected office anyway?
dogsbrekky
January 4th, 2010
4:57 pm
God I never have hate for anyone, But i REALLY WANT to smash Colleeeeeeenn Cowherd’s face in
sorry if that is a threat,…. but…………… this guy is a female dingoe’s period
RC
January 4th, 2010
5:01 pm
Coach,
My personal reasons that Escobar wouldn’t be leading off are a 28/44 BB/K rate in about a half-season’s worth of batting first, vs. a 39/34 rate in roughly the same number of plate apperances batting 5th and 6th. He also has an OBP of almost .400 and a SLG% of almost .450 batting 5th and 6th, with lower numbers batting leadoff. And even though speed isn’t the most important factor for a leadoff hitter, it is important, and Escobar is simply not a very good basestealer, with barely over a 50% success rate for his career. I really think he profiles much better as a 5/6 hitter than a 1/2, based on his numbers at each spot in the lineup.
dogsbrekky
January 4th, 2010
5:01 pm
18 Wheels – we love the “OILS” downunder but Garret is an outright commie pig dog… oh well he was promoted to his competence level
that would be AUSSIE Minister for the Environment………… but saying that…he is a lovely bloke and as genuine as they come……… just bloody wrong when it comes to my politics and USA
VaBraveFan
January 4th, 2010
5:03 pm
Escobar will serve well anywhere in the order. I’d like to see him get more AB’s. Batting 2nd gives him that chance. He is a first pitch hitter as well, so late in games and Chipper is behind him that will work in his favor getting those fastballs down the middle.
Redstick19
January 4th, 2010
5:04 pm
RC:
it’s all good. I’m not all all opposed to Damon leading off and McLouth moving to 6th or 7th. I guess I’m just hoping for “the big splash.” However, I’m old enough and smart enough to realize that sometimes it’s the smaller moves that have the biggest impacts upon a team’s season. If we do get Damon, I hope Bobby lets him grow his hair back… Lord knows this teams needs some personality!
brian
January 4th, 2010
5:05 pm
RC – the run producer is why I would support a trade for Uggla unless we have to pay a king’s ransom in prospects.
1- McLouth
2- Prado
3- Chipper
4- Uggla
5- McCann
6- Glaus
7- Escobar
8- Heyward/Diaz
Goldenglove002
January 4th, 2010
5:07 pm
DJ- I know. I’m still surprised
JoeC10
January 4th, 2010
5:07 pm
Redstick, I agree about the personality. Plus having “Jesus” on our side can’t hurt either right?
JoeC10
January 4th, 2010
5:08 pm
Brian, Uggla didn’t even hit 4th for the Marlins…..why would he hit 4th for us?
Random
January 4th, 2010
5:09 pm
DAP (January 4th, 2010 4:33 pm): “yeah i remember that. thats not what i said, actually. you were for some reason simplifying trades down to how good a players is and how many years he is signed for, when in reality being able to trade a player has many more variables than that. hopefully i helped you understand a little bit better.”
You have recently exhibited a pattern of having significant difficulty with your reading comprehension. Perhaps you see red whenever you spy my handle.
But for the record, in the hypothetical discussion on trade values, all variables had been accounted for except the length of Vazquez’s club-friendly contract. That was the only variable under discussion. And you admitted that two years of Vazquez at $11.5M each would be more valuable than one year of Vazquez at $11.5M.
And then you ridiculously maintained the position that Vazquez with one year of that club-friendly contract would be easier to trade than Vazquez with two years under the club-friendly contract.
We weren’t discussing which would be easier to get a fair or adequate return for — just which would be easier to trade. FOR THE SAME RETURN.
“ok, fine. if you admit that its just a hunch and there isnt any evidence of it, especially no the laroche situation, i dont know what we are arguing about. im glad we sorted that out.”
I “admitted” that my Vazquez speculation was a hunch UP-FRONT when I first made it, Mr Reading Comprehension (Not). But LaRoche is no hunch — it is a fact that the Braves concluded that they would not be able to sign LaRoche at a price ($/years) they were willing to pay. Or do you think they signed Glaus because they thought he was the better player? If they could have signed LaRoche to the same contract they signed Glaus to, who do you think they would have signed? Think, man, think.
“well, you specifically addressed me in a post for some reason asking a specific question and i answered. if you dont want to hear from me in the future, dont use my name and your chances of a response from me will go down.”
Well, we’ve had reasonable discussions in the past, and you used to strike me as quite sensible.
My mistake, I guess.
Lew
January 4th, 2010
5:10 pm
Random-Just telling you why I thought we might could sign him to an extension. Hardly matters now though, Dude’s a Yankee. Question now is who can we get for Melky Cabrera in a trade?
P-Town Brave
January 4th, 2010
5:11 pm
So, who’s ready for Round 1 of the Monday Night Wars?
RC
January 4th, 2010
5:14 pm
brian,
I could be wrong about this, but I would really expect that even if the Braves do acquire Uggla Bobby would likely bat him 6th and keep Glaus 4th. Glaus has the “proven veteran” label that Bobby loves, as well as having managed him on an All-Star team that went to Japan a few years back. I don’t know their numbers well enough off the top of my head to say who I’D prefer in the 4-spot, but I have followed the Braves long enough to know who Bobby Cox would prefer (at least initially).
unbelievable
January 4th, 2010
5:14 pm
if Vasquez loves it enough here, we can always see next offseason if he really wants to come back to Atl. We would need to move Lowe or KK at that point
NotAgain
January 4th, 2010
5:14 pm
After struggling with some new math I have tentatively determined that the Braves ended their 2009 season on October 4th, 92 days ago. They open the 2010 season on April 5th, 91 days from today. The long off-season is now officially more than half over
RC
January 4th, 2010
5:15 pm
Redstick, sounds good to me, just as long as he has the powers to turn at-bats into runs
.
AustinBrave
January 4th, 2010
5:15 pm
Have we heard anything on Glaus physical today? Been gone all day.
RC
January 4th, 2010
5:16 pm
Have we heard anything on Glaus physical today? Been gone all day.
Nothing yet, but not sure if today was even when it was scheduled to occur.
Redstick19
January 4th, 2010
5:17 pm
JoeC10
Jesus is just alright with me. (Please tell me most on here are old enough to get that.)
David O'Brien
January 4th, 2010
5:17 pm
at long last, NEW BLOGGAGE!
Redstick19
January 4th, 2010
5:19 pm
wow, what an honor it is to have had made the last comment prior to new bloggage. (he says removing tongue from cheek.)