Wren making bold moves; we pick Best CDs of ‘09

Is it safe to assume, considering the Glaus thing gets finalized, that the Braves will lay low for a little while hoping to find a bargain? Any thoughts?

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Is it safe to assume, considering the Glaus thing gets finalized, that the Braves will lay low for a little while hoping to find a bargain? Any thoughts?

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To add my 2 cents worth, I’ll give FW a B+ for his time in Atlanta as the GM. He could have had an A- if not for signing Loaf last year!
All in all, FW has given the Braves the chance to compete (meaning a fairly good team that could beat ALMOST anyone) while keeping an eye on the payroll and the future. There aren’t many GMs in small and mid-market cities that can do that.

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If the Braves were to sign a Nady or Derosa, who is the odd man out in the outfield? I hope it isn’t Diaz. That guy has done nothing but bust his butt since arriving in Atlanta.

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You really want our opinions of Frank Wren, DOB? My opinion of him could not be listed on this site due to rules of decency. I’ll try these: idiot, petulant, cheap, unstable, vain, condescending, unimaginative. His reputation for bad trades and misguided personnel decisions is spreading faster than the universe.

“Now I am become Frank Wren, the destroyer of empires.”

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DOB, Hypothetical question….I hear a lot about Nady….but my question is bench related….if we sign Nady to play OF/1B, out lineup will look like it does below. Do we then try to find a veteran SS or 2B for the bench??? We would have a surplus of outfielders, but are the Braves ok with Infante to cover SS, 2B, and 3B as a backup????

1) McLouth (L) – CF $4.5 Mil
2) Prado (R) – 2B $425,000
3) Chipper (S) – 3B $13 Mil
4) T. Glaus (R) – 1B $2 Mil
5) B. McCann (L) – C $5.5 Mil
6) Escobar (R) – SS $450,000
7) J. Heyward (L) – RF $400,000
X. Nady (R) – LF $5 Mil

Bench) M. Jones (OF/1B/PH) $400,000 ???? Veteran Infielder????
Bench) M. Cabrera – (4th OF) $2.5 Mil – ARB Raise***
Bench) M. Diaz – (OF/1B?) $2.55 Mil
Bench) Infante (SS/2B/3B/OF) $2.225 Mil
Bench) Ross (C) $1.6 Mil

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Actually since Melky is a Brave now, I think Dye becomes a better fit, now that Melky could replace him defensively. Also with Dye open to playing first he could backup,but you would want a solid defender. What if the Braves had landing Ross Gload? Where would he be fitting on this team and would we be done shopping if we had him?

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http://www.myspace.com/nocountrytheband

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“Is it safe to assume, considering the Glaus thing gets finalized, that the Braves will lay low for a little while hoping to find a bargain? Any thoughts?” — P’cola Brave

You know, that’s a good question. I haven’t got a clue as to what the payroll is right now, but according to some that have posted here, Wren is still over 10 million below max. If they get a big bat, others will have to go. I don’t have their 25 man roster memorized, but it’s got to be pretty much filled. Wren told DOB that the Braves are only going to make a few small moves, at most. I’ve followed the Braves for a long time. They never disclose what they’re up to. Don’t be shocked if something big happens.

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DOB,
You need to check out the following 2009 albums by; Camera Obscura, Metric, and The Dead Weather (Jack White W/ Alisson Mosshart of The Kills). Get them, and deduct them as a business expense. It would fit w/ in the theme of the blog. They’re good, really good!

-Tom

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Oh and forgot this:

Anybody check out the Blakroc album?
I can’t completely decide what I think of it (some of it comes off as just a bunch of big hiphop names half-a$$ing it), but some of the songs are rad. And the videos on their site of the Keys and all these hiphop dudes hanging in the studio and making it happen are pretty damn cool.

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Not only does Glaus’ health concern me but lets take into consideration how many games were saved my Kotchman/Laroches glove. Lets face it, Escobar and Chipper dont exactly lob the baseball over to first

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Glaus signing for 1B = D Hoosier

wow that’s hard to understand. he has more potential upside than anybody else they were discussing and he is cheap. Great pick up IMO.

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Dirty Yuni, good posting. However, I was surprised to see you forgot something.

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This is what I love about this blog…Forget the Glaus/$2 milllion/bargain talk. That’s not the point.

Here’s the point….

IF GLAUS hit .220 last year with 12 HR and 62 RBI, he SUCKS, don’t touch him.

IF GLAUS spends last year on an operating table not playing baseball, GO GET HIM! OH YEAH! WHAT A BARGAIN!!!

No matter who the player is, that’s what ALWAYS happens. Take out Glaus’ name and insert anyone else who fits. Funny stuff!

Love Glaus! Love Nady! Love Hudson! Love St. Elsewhere! Love ER! Love Dr. Kildaire! Love Marcus Welby! Love Trapper John!

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Now that I’ve simmered down a bit, I think the Braves could be just fine on offense as long as they add one more middle-to-great power hitter (like a Nady)- mainly as insurance if (when) Glaus gets hurt. Glaus alone is far too risky, but Wren knows this better than any of us bloggers, so I’m sure he’s looking. I like Nady a lot, but the issue there is we’d have an injury-prone guy backing up an injury prone guy. Hopefully Melky is traded for something else or is limited to 4th OF- just not a big fan. He’s young, though- still time to grow into better player.

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Alright that’s it! Its gone on long enough! I need to know……

How do you do bold, italics, etc Cs

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_formatting.asp
use above link

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Hey DOB, I agree’d with Dirty Uni, don’t I get a prop or two?

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That’s it for me….Mr. Negativity. I guess that’s what happens when you hit 50.

DOB – I’m pretty new here but thank you for allowing me a place to vent about my lifelong passion — the Braves. I was at the first game ever in Atlanta in 1966 and I really want to see one more title (at least) before I leave this place. A chance to discuss the Braves fits right in with my kids leaving for college so it’s helped with “empty nest syndrome.”

Happy Holidays.

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O’Brien’s analysis of the job done by Frank Wren is fair to a point but the gloves were left on. Let’s be honest, Vazquez was traded due to the bloated contract afforded to Derek Lowe. Simply put, Wren tripped and fell on his own sword while attempting to do battle with the baseball Gods. Derek Lowe should have never been signed in the first place. However, name one GM who hasn’t screwed up and I’ll promise not to throw stones at people who live in glass houses.

That said, I’ll give Frank Wren a C- for the job done so far. Why you ask? NOBODY gets an A or B from me unless they make the playoffs, them’s the breaks. Tough love is better than no love.

When it comes to the loss of Vazquez and the possible adverse affects of his loss on the rotation, I must digress. One full season of Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe and Kawakami will do just fine if backed up by some good D and HR slamming offense.

Speaking of the rotation, maybe it’s just me but it seems there is a distinct lack of respect for Tim Hudson. Why, I have no idea because the dude is money. His career .655 winning percentage is better than that of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and the vast majority of pitchers already in Cooperstown. Tim Hudson is on a Hall of Fame track and nobody seems to be aware of his status as one of the most consistent pitchers in the game today. So give the man some respect already.

When it comes to the offense, I have no problem with adding Troy Glaus because less is more. In other words, spread the money around to low risk/high reward veteran players and something good is likely to total up in the long run.

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Great piece DOB. I concur that Wren has done an admirable job with the hand he has been dealt as far as payroll is concerned. I just don’t like the corporate mentality that you’ve got to weaken one area to strengthen another all because of payroll limitations. Now I will depart from further discussion of our beloved Braves by wishing all bloggers here and everywhere a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday season. As you take time to be with those closest to you, please take time to be thankful for being blessed to have those people you love the most in your life. Let them know that, too. Last year at this time I did not know that this would be my dad’s last Christmas as he was diagnosed with and ultimately lost his battle with leukemia just months later. Folks, my dad was a preacher and if it comes across as that so be it. I’m just saying cherish the special times like these even though you maybe frustrated with those in the line ahead of you at grocery store, and take time to enjoy the time you have with them on Earth. For time marches on and we only have a short time to share in their lives. And remember even on their best day or their worst day or your best day or your worst day, count it a blessing that you still have them there. Say a little prayer for them and thank the good Lord above that you’ve been blessed to have them for another year and may you find peace, joy, and love this holiday season.

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DOB, The wife and I took a trip over there in August for our anniversary and fell in love with the place. We stayed in Lihue, rented a car and went all over the island. We took a helicopter tour up to the Na Pali Coast. Unbelieveable…

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But Coach, if FW hadn’t picked up Wren last year, then we would all have castigated him for not improving the rotation well enough. So to say that was a mistake is not really accurate.

In fact, we all wanted him signing/dealing for 2-3 starters last winter. He did just what he was supposed to do. Now, the fact that he needed to rid himself of a starter to free up some cash for improving the offense, is not really his fault. Just the facts of life in a world where money is not flowing freely.

Dontchathink?

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Flip, Flip, Flipadelphia!

Flip, Flip, Flipadelphia!

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Hey DOB, thank you right back … for everything.

” We’re not leaving till early Friday morning”
Does that mean we may still see you pop on here, from time to time?

“Though I don’t plan to procrastinate like I do for all my work trips, when I end up packing at midnight with a 7 a.m. flight, like an idiot”
You too? I’m the world’s worst when it comes to procrastination. One of these days I’m gonna write a book about it.

Hey, if we don’t see you before you leave, have a GREAT time, David.

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DOB- No sweat. Just wanted, as many already have, to weigh in on how great this little slice of the interwebs is that you helm.

O’Hawke-what’d I forgot? The thing about not being long-winded?

Oh, and I’d submit this as some of the best music put out this year: http://www.surprisememrdavis.com/

Gotta love the old but timeless vagrant Nathan Moore, and the Slip is a long-time fave of mine.

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George

Hey, lots of folks were doing their fair share of complaining about Chip earlier.

I miss Skip and Ernie, but I get most of my games on XM, so I listen half the time to the weenies from the other team.

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I thought Boog was great too… sad to see him go.

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If Frank Wren would add Uggla to the line up I’d rate him B+. That would add 30 + homers and alot of excitement for the fans. Fun to dream.

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Also, you shouldn’t start a sentence with a conjunction…

See what I did there??

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You asked about Wren here is my take:
As for the JJ trade all he did was sign the paper, it was already in place prior to his taking over the GM position.
Other than that the only trade that worked out was Vasquez, yet when you look back at it it cost us 3 players from our minor leagues, plus Vasquez and Boone Logan, for a borderline 4th outfielder who it seems only the braves see anything in, a minor league pitcher who has trouble throwing stikes and a A level guy that might someday (at least 3 years from now) make it to the ML. Oh you did get one year from Vasquez. So in the end it cost us 5 players one of which was a durable 200 inning starter to end up with basically not much. Notice every article tries to sell this as this Viscaino kid was really the big part of the trade needs to look at the success rate of A level pitchers making it to the major. The odds are probably 1 in 10 against, maybe higher.
Last year we had lots of money to fix this team, yet we were stuck with a 1b that didn’t produce 1b like numbers due to a questionable trade of an all-star 1b. Wren struck out on Prior, then on Burnett, then the Furcal fiasco followed by the Griffey deal, Smoltz thing and the Glavine signing. What needed to happen last year was a front line starter, followed by a LF bat, then a 2nd starting pitcher, and maybe address a better solution for 1b. Then look at what you have left to see what you could get. Nope we went out and blew the whole thing on pitching, 4 of them. Doing this knowing full well Tommy Hanson was ready but they were not going to bring him up until June 1 at any cost because they didn’t want him to become a super 2. That might have cost us enough games to keep us out of the playoffs last year.
And here we go again with the search for lightning in a bottle with older, off injury, questionmarks as the solution to the hitting problem. Didn’t they learn anything with the Biran Jordan redux, the Raul Mondesi nightmare, among others?
Her eis a scary thought, what if they hold Heyward out for the same reasons as Hanson? Can you imaigne a starting outfield of Cabrera, McClouth and Diaz? It could happen! That might be even a worse outfield than last year. Heck they might not hit any more home runs combined than Werth does by himself.
If I am grading our GM I have to give him a solid D. I see no plan for now or for the future in development. Not to mention we have a minor league system devoid of position players other than Heyward and Freeman. It might be time to rebuild the Braves, from the top down.

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Chop, what you have said has some merit.

But it seems to me that people who don’t do a job have short memories about things that affect that job sometimes. (Not that this directed at your comments, but comments as a whole.) For example, if you have a business and you buy a piece of equipment that is one of many pieces of equipment, but is integral to the other machines and what they do, and this machine is the most expensive machine in your business, costing 1/10th of your total budgeting for production and the machine goes down. You still have to pay 1/10th of your budgeting for the machine (minus a small portion that insurance pays) but you still must get a product out. Say that machine is down for 3 years and you have to pay 1/10th of your budget each year even though that machine has given absolutely no help. For 3 years you have to do things differently than you had originally set your business to run. Then after 3 years, the machine is paid for. Does that mean that now you can immediately go into the production you could have had 3 years earlier? Most likely it will take some time for you to be able to get to that point. Places where you had to make changes have to be changed back, after you buy another machine. And now, the machine that is available is not exactly like the one you originally bought so you have to upgrade other parts of your business to complement the machine you just bought.

Anyway, the point of that rambling is that people seem to think that immediately after Hampton was gone, the Braves could just pick it up from there. But the affects of that contract still linger. Decisions that were made back then do not really fit where they want to go now. It seems to me that Hampton’s contract and its effect on the Braves is not totally gone yet. It would not affect, as much, a team with seemingly unlimited funds. But the Braves are not there anymore. So its effect lingers longer.

But, your point is well taken. With regard to your post directly, I guess what the above means is that it might be fair to Wren to give him enough time to get over something as heavy as Hampton’s contract was. Then… hit him with a rotten pie if he doesn’t get the Braves to the WS! lol

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Jurrjens, Jair — RHP — $450,000.00 BFRSD

I doubt that JJ gets only 450,000 after two years like that. I’m guessing that is 20-25%

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Wayne, it’s not so much Derek Lowe being a mistake as it’s the money spent or over spent. Frank Wren paid “ACE” money for a mid rotation starter. There were more affordable options available in the free agent market who delivered better bang for the buck spent.

Such as:

Randy Wolf, one year at 5 million 11-7 3.23 ERA

Braden Looper, one year at 4.75 million 14-7 5.22 ERA

Tom Glavine, we will never know will we?

Carl Pavano, one year at 1.5 million 14-12 5.10 ERA

Jon Garland, one year at 7.5 million 11-13 4.01 ERA

Compared to the 15 million shelled out for a 15-10 4.67 ERA season.

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As for the JJ trade all he did was sign the paper, it was already in place prior to his taking over the GM position DeWayne

why do people keep posting that stupid garbage. Frank & Dave have been buddies forever. Frank put the deal together, get it right if your gonna make a point of the deal.

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Hey, nolie. How are you?

I asked Moby how you were doing, but he must have just stuck his head in and decided he would leave. Or…. did you post under is name again? lol

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DOB
I love the William Elliott Whitmore pick. Dude is a great performer and a great dude. I met him at the Gothic Theatre in Denver a few years ago when he opened for Clutch. Been a fan ever since.

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Enjoy your time up here, DOB! =)

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Or…. did you post under is name again? lol

nah he and the fam are all safely tucked away now I guess.
I’m doing ok I guess for an old f@rt. some days are diamonds, some days are coal.nerve problem slowly getting worse as my typing often shows.Oh well it beats the alternative as they say. at least so far.
I too think Glaus was a good pick up. Not a Melky fan, but he can be helpful I guess if used correctly.
I think the Dunn kid is being way overrated here, but I hope not. Like the Vizcaino(sp) upside, but young pitching prospects are a crap shoot more or less.
Would like to see them pick up Nady yet, but I will believe that when I see it.
Man it sucks to be a cynical disillusioned old coot.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.

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I’ll give Wren a solid B for the off-season so far. It would be higher but I personally didn’t like the way he jumped the gun on signing Wagner and Saito before knowing if Soriano and Gonzalez would accept arbitration or not.

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Perfect Example of our Owners going Cheap! Vazquez to the Bankees and we get Milky Cabrera and Troy Glaus…? My Question to F. Wren is…

R U Crazy! R U Crzzzzyyyy!!!!

But it’s not his fault L. Media is going cheap on us AGAIN! What’s next M. DeRosa or X. Nady?

Come on that lineup scares No One! Phillies fans are laughing at us

And on another note when I found out (via phone) that Wren got Violated by WhineBrenner and the Yankees I about threw my phone across the dept store that I was in, and I’m still P’d about that!

I grade Wren’s tenure at a C right now unless we Go Hard after J. Bay

Liberty Media on the other hand gets a big fat F!

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Coach, that’s a really good point about Lowe. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I’m not talking about the hindsight of knowing what now happened in 2009. I’m talking about recalling what Wren DIDN’T know up to the point when he signed Lowe.

He had just traded for Vazquez, and while I do grasp that Wren, Bobby and the scouts figured he’d fare well in the NL, I don’t think anybody saw THAT coming.

Then he snagged KK. Maybe KK gave them exactly what they expected. But to be completely honest (if they’re being honest), it was a crap shoot. Nobody really knew what KK was going to give us.

JJJ? I think everybody expected good things out of him, yet there is always that “sophomore slump” thing people try to pretend exsists.

Like JJJ, I assume that Wren figured Hanson would help at some point, after his AFL showing. But what if he got lit up in AAA?

Which brings us to Lowe. He was coming off of a stellar season, and had a track record of not only being durable, but very good. I think Wren assumed that A) The market would keep going up, so eventually Lowe would seem like a bargain at the end of the contract, or B) he’d have another strong year, and he could be moved if guys like Morton, Jo-Jo and Hanson stepped it up (Jo-Jo and Morton were still semi-options last December).

So yeah. He overpaid for him. But I still stand by the fact that it had to be done. For a while I griped about the KK signing. But his 6.whatever million dollar salary this year seems like a steal at this point.

Ultimately, I don’t care what individual salaries the starters in the rotation are making. Just so long as those 5 guys don’t take up more than about 40 percent of the payroll (40 million of our 100 or so million).

As of right now, our rotation will cost us around 32 million dollars in 2010 for 5 guys that combined are pretty damn good. By the time Hanson and JJJ start getting big raises, KK will be gone and Hudson and Lowe will be close to moving on. With Minor and now Vizcaino around the corner, the rotation should cost us about what it should to keep the rest of the roster in proportion to the payroll we need to be at. Chipper will be off the books by then too. So, there just might be room to sign both Hanson and JJJ to big extensions and eat their arbitration years (if Boras allows it with JJJ), with those salaries coming off the books. About that time McCann’s salary will be jumping too.

So, WS bound or not in 2010, with a 100 million or so budget in mind, Wren has done a nice job of not having too much money tied up long-term to kill us down the road.

Now, one could argue that if Lowe and Chipper don’t rebound, the 28 million those two will make in 2010 might hinder us competing NOW.

Let’s hope they rebound.

Are you getting snow up there?

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Bob Dylan’s “Together Through Life” was pretty good.

“Life Is Hard” is about as depressing a song as you’ll hear.

(hears Townes Van Zandt’s “Marie” in the background)

Okay. That one’s more depressing.

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nolie, and yes… I happen to believe that when Liberty representatives, along with Terry McGuirk, John Schuerholz, and Frank Wren have all said repeatedly the there’s no hard salary cap here and no payroll constraints mandated by ownership…they’re telling the truth.

I believe it because it makes too much damned sense… And because Liberty – per numerous statements – believe there is a correlation between payroll and winning, and that there’s a correlation between winning and franchise value… And I believe it because the Braves have increase payroll by nearly 20 mill over the past few years.

Many fans seem to think that if there’s any kind of limitation on what a team can spend, that must be an indication of a salary cap mandated from on high. WHY??? What if… and I know this is crazy… but what IF the Braves were a business, operated by smart people in the Braves front office, trying not to lose money? Hmmm… there’s a far-out idea, huh? =)

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Braves_Fan_RSD

Nice job on the breakdown. Clearly Wren has some wiggle room, huh? I still think if there is another move pending, it’s going to be a trade and not free agency. But who knows? Obviously RF and one more bench spot needs to be filled. Could be Heyward. Could be Adam Dun with Melky and Diaz platooning in RF.

Wouldn’t mind seing a guy like Derosa, if Heyward is to be the guy. Due to his versatility. But don’t want him locked down for 2 years (or 3). But Wren COULD turn around and move both Diaz and Melky for prospects (or keep one as the 4th OF), and go with Dero in LF and Heyward in RF. Then if Freeman isn’t ready next year (2011), Derosa could play 1B (or be available to play 1B when/if Glaus goes down).

I also wouldn’t have that big of a problem with Uggla in LF. Can’t be any worse than Loaf out there, and certainly would provide more pop. Probably would come at less cost than Derosa too. Hard to say how much Derosa’s value will drop.

But I don’t think Wren is done. I’ve been preaching for Wren to leave himself wiggle room at the deadline, salary wise. But that could easily be solved by including Melky, Diaz or even McLouth in any deadline deal to clear some salary to take on another higher priced guy at that time.

But I can’t see Wren going into this season 9 million under last year’s payroll. Or am I way off in that assessment DOB?

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N8, the Braves do have certain internal accounting mechanisms that we can’t completely account for, or that aren’t immediately apparent.

One thing to consider… how much of last year’s payroll was Tim Hudson insurance money??

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Is that why you post at night? Not able to sleep because of the nerves? I had lymes disease years ago. That is certainly not to compare with what you have and it was no picnic by any means. I am sorry that it is such a problem for you.

Yeah, I am not a Melky fan either. I choose to look at it with a hopeful attitude thinking that things are different in Atl from NY. Some people (seemingly Javy may be one of them) who just don’t do well there but do much better in a place like Atl. I am hoping that maybe some of that will be the case with Melky.

Of course you are right about young prospects. To me, it increases the odds of at least one of our great young arms actually fulfilling their projected potential. Thus, the value is not totally accurate to see it as individual value, but as a group. So his value is lessened, but the groups’ value increases because of him. I know… strange way to look at it. But I truly do not expect all of them to reach their projections.

I would like to see a Nady signing too. Not that I expect as much as some people seem to expect, but I think he would strengthen the team. I am not sure what they will do though. I don’t know what else they could have done, but as I have expressed earlier, with the type of pitchers that we have, it would be good to have the best defense we possibly could have, especially on the infield. I know we aren’t going to be getting rid of Chipper and I don’t know that there is anything we could do about Prado’s seeming lack of range, but those two positions are kind of weak to me. And certainly there is a big question at 1st with the lack of experience. Hopefully, the defense won’t hurt the Braves too much.

And may your holidays be blessed as well.

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McGuirk said it was stipulated in writing that new ownership could not go below the team’s current player payroll of $87.3 million, but was certainly encouraged to invest in the franchise.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070516&content_id=1968024&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

Here you go.

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DOB

what do i think about our GM? not sure yet. i think he has made several tough calls. i think over the last 12 months plus he has made us a better team from the major league roster to the minors…if guys forget we were basically a 75 win team a couple of years ago to a player for a playoff spot until the last couple of weeks of last year.

i am not in love today with the deal of javy but at the same time he has seriously, at least i think, reloaded a minor league system with upper level projected players, especially arms, that makes a huge factor in the future and maybe even the next year or so, based on talent to deal. we have not given up under his watch what he thinks is major league soon to produce talent. i think that the jury is out because the braves, hell, us fans want to win NOW. taking a look though at the overall work of art, there is very few reason to complain.

its obvious there are some limits to what he can do. it sucks in a way to think we may not win division title this year much less a wold championship, but at the same time with our pitching, possible offense and along with players we have coming, it’s hard not to get excited for the 2011 2012 and beyond….and guys/gals who knows….a tweak of a uggla at 2nd and prado in left. or nady in left, who is to say with the staff we have now and the next couple of years, that run to a world championship wont happen.

i think the jury is out but i have no complaints and honestly am encouraged. i think we have a gm that will make the hard decisions and from what i have seen, has a eye on both making us the best team we can be today as well as seriously stockpiling future talent…

DOB grade today B

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