10:45 pm December 23, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 26th, 20094:33 pm
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum………..back in the spring, I said everything that you said in your 4:20pm posting. I had a hard time myself trying to understand how the people think who feel that what happened last winter with A.J. Burnett, Jake Peavy, Rafael Furcal, and John Smoltz was Frank Wren’s fault.
December 26th, 20094:36 pm
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum……….I agree, I would rather not see the Braves trade for Uggla either.
December 26th, 20094:37 pm
By the way, what ever happened to the guy who was staying at the El Cortez Hotel in Las Vegas? Perhaps I need to check the crime beat……….I hear it can get pretty rough around Fremont Street.
December 26th, 20094:39 pm
Is it possible at all that Lowe still gets traded and Medlen gets used as the 5th starter?
December 26th, 20094:40 pm
Why are we still talking about trading for Uggla? Where would he play? Or where would Prado play?
December 26th, 20094:43 pm
They should’ve just let Hudson walk. How many people said that right when Wren signed him at $9m? Now that Wren and everybody else knows the market for Lowe didn’t turn out the way most envisioned we could still be looking at Vazquez starting opening day against the Cubs. Unfortunately they had to trade him.
Mountain Braves Fan
December 26th, 20094:49 pm
Piedmont Blues and PTBNL,
We can’t really talk about trading Vazquez for Cuddyer, because the Braves no longer have Vazquez. The question is, would you trade Melky Cabrera and prospects for Cuddyer?
Piedmont Blues, I think Cuddyer has had more than two good offensive seasons (okay, three). Since 2006 (not counting 2008 when he was injured and got less than 250 at bats), Cuddyer has averaged 94 runs, 95 RBIs, and 24 home runs per season. I will gladly take that from a Braves outfielder in 2010.
As for Melky Cabrera’s offensive production, the most runs he has ever scored in one season in his career is 75 (in 2006). The most RBIs he has ever had is 73 (in 2007), and the most home runs he has ever hit in a season is 13 in 2009 in the New Yankee Stadium. His previous home run high was 8 (in 2007 and 2008).
Melky Cabrera is a decent fourth outfielder. Michael Cuddyer is a solid corner outfielder who can also play first base, who hits lefties well, and who would be a legitimate cleanup hitter for the Braves.
To answer my original question, would I trade Melky Cabrera and prospects for Cuddyer? The answer is: it depends on which prospects. As I said before, the Twins have to tie up Mauer long term before any Cuddyer trade would even be possible.
Frank from KS (now living in CO)
Long time, no see.
Ya know who I wished the Braves would sign or trade for….and that’s Dye.
Yeah, his defense isn’t what it used to be….BUT he can still hit the damn ball out of the ballpark…….and I still think the Braves need one more big bopper in the lineup to get them over the hump and into the playoffs and hopefully WS.
December 26th, 20095:00 pm
MBF, it’s a joke, right? You really mean we can’t trade Vazquez again? Awww I thought it was best 2 out of 3.
December 26th, 20095:03 pm
If A = B and B = C, then A = C.
That is “essentially” what is being said.
December 26th, 20095:04 pm
I didn’t say I blamed Wren for all of those incidents, but it was a PR problem.
December 26th, 20095:05 pm
It is not a matter of what I would do. I know that I don’t have the full picture. It is a matter of what Wren will do. I doubt he will do that. He might just do it. But at the present, I doubt it will be done.
December 26th, 20095:06 pm
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum (December 26th, 2009 4:27 pm EST): If I was going to add another player it would be DeRosa.
Me too. Makes all the sense in the world. Best insurance policy money can buy.
December 26th, 20095:08 pm
Please stop pimping DYE. the guy’s OTH.
December 26th, 20095:09 pm
December 26th, 2009
Is it possible at all that Lowe still gets traded and Medlen gets used as the 5th starter?
No, not possible. In fact, WREN will be incarcerated if he does that.
December 26th, 20095:10 pm
richbrave, are you saying that Dye is Dead (baseball-wise)?
Mountain Braves Fan, if the Braves can get Cuddyer, it sounds as though he would be the ‘missing link’ for the team. As we all know, in order to make a trade you have to have something that would interest the other team. I believe we have enough pitching depth in the minors to interest quite a few teams.
December 26th, 20095:11 pm
DeRo wants too much money and too long a contract for the BRAVES at this time. Maybe his terms go south come February, if he’s still on the market, and then he’s added.
December 26th, 20095:12 pm
December 26th, 20095:16 pm
DOB, as a long time reader of AJC including your blogs, I did mean to personal cut at you, I was just joking about you deleting posts. To say we came out good on this trade is to lack sufficient understanding of the value of most prospects including those that we recieved in this deal.
Having coached on the college level for several year including having had two players at the Major league level and many more in the minors, I may not be all knowing, nor highly suficicated as you indicated. But this much I do know, this was a lose deal for the Braves. We are not any better for 2010, and it is highly questionable 3 years down the road if we will be highly improved by this move. So try this for more a suficicated response, lets me quote Rob Neyer: “For Melky Cabrera and two prospects (one who is really highly regarded), this is a steal for the Yanks. Yet, it’s being said that the Braves got more from the Yanks in this deal than the Phillies got for Cliff Lee … which made me chuckle.”
It make me chuckle to think anyone would try to sell this as a positive deal for the Braves, lets call it what it was, and what Lowe was suppose to be: A SALARY DUMP.
That isn’t what was being said by me, because I never mentioned which prospects I would trade with Cabrera for Cuddyer. Therefore, the “B” of the Vazquez trade (Vazquez being “A”) does not equal the “B” of the Cuddyer trade (Cuddyer being “C”). Hence, “A” does not equal “C”.
December 26th, 20095:19 pm
If we are talking trades for an outfielder, what about Brad Hawpe? I think he is a possibility and I think Colorado would trade him for Cabrera and prospects.
December 26th, 20095:26 pm
You are correct, MBF. You addressed something to me in response to what I said to another. That person did in fact give a B. He did not like that someone said that his B was equal to A. I was just saying that in essence, his trade was the same as the other person said. You tried to make our replies irrelevant. It may have been irrelevant to your question, but not to the replies that preceded my post. I did not address my reply to you, but to ncgary. So… why does my post have to relevant to your post?
I am not going to go through the whole conversation. You can go back and read what has been said.
I did not address you. But you addressed me…. about a reply that was not made to you.
Nate from NCState
I still disagree with you guys who call this a “lose deal” concerning Javy to the Yanks. Shedding some money off of the payroll is obviously part of the deal, and with the Yankees willing to take on ALL of Javy’s salary that may have made them the best option. But none of us know how Melky is going to hit in the NL. Obviously the AL has tougher pitchers day in and day out, so who knows how he will react.
But the whole point of this deal was to get prospects. And the Braves got one of the best prospects the Yankees had, and a young pitcher no less. In 3 years lets see how this guy pitches, then we can say if this deal was good or not. But remember, people were saying the SAME THING when Edgar Renteria was traded for some prospects and now we have one of the best young pitchers in baseball. NO ONE predicted that, and most people said Wren was in over his head, which I was skeptical as well.
But NEWSFLASH, the Braves aren’t the Yankees, and Frank Wren is building a load of talent in the depleted farm system he inherited after that Tex trade. Let’s just give it some time. Melky is not the centerpiece of this deal, so let’s just stop the “13 homers for 15 wins” crap.
December 26th, 20095:27 pm
Arizona which I think is considered a pitcher’s park. bvillebaron
Arizona is an extreme hitter’s park, not pitchers park.. It was the second best hitters park in baseball last season behind Coors, that’s all of baseball not just the NL. Year after year it is always in the top 5. Not sure where you would have picked up the idea it was a pitcher’s park.
It’s true he did not have a great year there, but his ERA+ came out to 100 which is league average.
December 26th, 20095:30 pm
whats hawpes defense like? isnt he pretty weak defensively?
December 26th, 20095:33 pm
im no gm, but i think braves outfield is still a bat away from serious competiveness
December 26th, 20095:37 pm
Hawpe has a cannon, but his range is sub-standard.
December 26th, 20095:39 pm
i think either a 375 on base average 40 steal type or either a 100 rbi type is still needed. keep nate trade melky
December 26th, 20095:41 pm
who we giving up for Hawpe?
I’m not going to waste my time on the pipe dream (and that is what it is) that we could acquire Holiday, Bay, Cuddy, Crawford etc…. I think the next move is to sign Derosa. Go with a Heyward-Diaz platoon in RF… I think that Outfield could produce 60 homers this year which would be a nice upgrade over what we’ve been getting.
December 26th, 20095:42 pm
jeffrey d: See DOB’s comments earlier about DeRosa’s potential role on this team, were he signed. “DeRo would be brought in as a jack-of-all-trades type could would probably end up playing most days but splitting his time between several positions.”
Prado could serve that very same role. He can play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, or RF. He could get a good bit of time in Left, and spell/fill in for regulars at each of those 3 infield positions. Overall, he could get close to 500 AB’s in that role… while Uggla hits 30 HR’s every day at 2B.
It would work out just fine. It’d make the lineup that much better, and give the Braves all kinds of flexibility.
December 26th, 20095:44 pm
jeffrey d, oh… and, alternatively, Uggla could simply play LF. But if Uggla’s not too bat at 2B defensively, it would give the Braves a lot more flexibility to let Prado be a bit of a rover.
December 26th, 20095:47 pm
braves still have around 10 million flex in payroll, so ots not exactly pipe dreaming to speculate.
i agree holliday and bay are way overpriced. but a trade for a reasonable contract isnt out of the question
who we giving up for Hawpe? JosephG
Hawpe does not hit lefties well at 242/321/429. maybe we shouldn’t give up anybody?
December 26th, 20095:48 pm
line up: updated
1. Nate McLouth
2. Martin Prado
3. Chipper Jones
4. Troy Glaus
5. Brian McCann
6. Yunel Escobar
7. Melky Cabrera/ Jason Heyward
8. Matt Diaz/ Jason Heyward
If we can trade for Uggla that is where it gets difficult. I think with his low average id be ok with him down in the order
1. Nate McLouth
2. Martin Prado
3. Chipper Jones
4. Troy Glaus
5. Brian McCann
6. Yunel Escobar
7. Dan Uggla
8. Matt Diaz/ Jason Heyward
December 26th, 20095:49 pm
jeffrey d……….you asked this question in your 4:39pm posting, so I figured I’d give it a try.
Yes, it is possible that Derek Lowe still gets traded and Kris Medlen is given a shot to win the 5th starter spot. However, only if the Braves are willing to eat a significant part of Lowe’s contract.
Nothing has changed to give the Braves of finding a sucker out there willing to eat most if not all of Lowe’s contract.
December 26th, 20095:51 pm
melky might have a career season, if thats the best we get , thats what we are stuck hoping for. lol
December 26th, 20095:54 pm
U guys don’t like our outfield the way it looks right now but what if Hayward ends up winning the right field job out of spring training and hits for around .270 with 25 homers and 70-80 Rbis wouldn’t that be enough production from the outfield think about it Diaz Left Field McLouth Center and Hayward in Right and we have Melky to back up all 3 out field positions
December 26th, 20095:56 pm
Yes, it is possible that Derek Lowe still gets traded and Kris Medlen is given a shot to win the 5th starter spot. However, only if the Braves are willing to eat a significant part of Lowe’s contract. PL
no it isn’t possible.
December 26th, 20095:58 pm
yeah that might be a great outfield, alot of ifs in it though. one almost sure thing would be nice
ncgary………I’m not totally down on Melky Cabrera. I feel that if he is used properly that he could be an asset for the Braves in 2010 (assuming that he isnt packaged in a trade). He can play all 3 outfield positions, makes contact, has some speed, and has played on a World Series winner.
December 26th, 20096:01 pm
Rob in pain from (SC)… Your 1:04 p.m. post is an interesting insight. May well be the case.
December 26th, 20096:02 pm
i agree, hes got talent, hopefully he puts it altogether this year if he isnt traded. lol
December 26th, 20096:08 pm
Wren seems to like making trades. That and the fact that they could use an everyday OF and they have 4 right now if Heyward is in the plans for opening day. I’m with Lew… I see a trade for Uggla in the works with Cabrera being dealt to Fla.
December 26th, 20096:11 pm
I have a question that I would like to ask the blog on a “slow weekend” of Braves news:
Do you think that Braves fans should come out in droves to see a mediocre product in order to convince Braves ownership to increase the payroll and get more power for our line-up?
Do you think that Braves fans should wait for Braves ownership to improve the product on the field by increasing payroll and getting some power for our line-up….before they are willing to come out to the park in droves and spend money?
The reason I’m asking is because in any other business than sports…..the onus is on the owners of a business to create a product that the consumer will feel compelled to spend money one.
Other than sports fans, what other consumer of a product is willing to spend money on a crappy product, with the hopes that ownership will use the money to improve the product?
December 26th, 20096:14 pm
i hope uggla isnt the player added, best case scenario i see would be zobritz from tampa bay, hes a dero with more power and upside and a 450 k salary. tampa would probably not part with him but prado and some excess minor league pitching might get their attention
December 26th, 20096:16 pm
Here’s an article from the Palm Beach Post
Now, it’s the Atlanta Braves stepping to the plate in the Dan Uggla sweepstakes. The Braves are kicking the tires on Uggla, with a thought of moving him to left field, according to Fox Sports.
I think the Marlins would have to be blown away in a deal that would send their best home-run slugger to a division rival. And don’t forget that Uggla has already expressed a desire to stay at second base. Even though the Marlins are prepared to open the season with Uggla if they cant find the right deal, they are still working hard to move him.
December 26th, 20096:17 pm
i cant speak for noone but me, and im not going this year either way, unless an unexpected windfall of money falls in my lap. trying to hang onto my house with a job that pays 15 an hour less than what i am used to
December 26th, 20096:21 pm
troy glaus at clean up are you out of your mind!!!!
December 26th, 20096:22 pm
Part of the reason I pondered the question I posted at 6:11pm is because part of the criticism of Braves fans is that attendance at Braves games could be a lot better. I’ve heard that if Braves fans would come out and support the team at the park, that the Braves would have more money to improve the team.
Well, I say “SCREW THAT”. We live in a sports world where offense packs stadiums. The days of fans filling up stadiums and watching a boring 3-1 game with stellar defense and pitching on a consistent basis are pretty much over. The Braves for the past couple of years have been a pretty boring, bland product.
Remember, fans come out in droves to watch the Home Run Derby at the All-Star game and watch it on t.v. No want wants to watch 3 hours of a Defensive Drill Derby.
Again, I’m not saying that I dont value pitching and defense. I’m say that the casual fan could care less about pitching and defense. If the casual fan is going to take his family to the park, he wants to have the expectation that they will be entertained by seeing some offense.
The Braves need to do more to improve the offense so the casual fan will feel compelled to come out and spend money by watching the Braves play. Like it or not, the casual fan is needed so the Braves can afford to spend money on payroll that will enable us to consistently compete for a championship every year.
December 26th, 20096:24 pm
bravofan………I agree with your 6:21pm posting.
I wonder how many clean-up hitters across the Majors are making $2 mil a year (not including any pre-arbitration eligible players)?
December 26th, 20096:27 pm
thank you thomahawk talk and the Braves need a reality check he is not the power surge the Braves lack
December 26th, 20096:32 pm
Im in about the same boat that ncgary is I wouldn’t be able to go to a game either way I live in a County in Ohio that has had the worst unemployment rating in the state about all year and dont even know how long my job will last iv been on 32 hours a week for most of the year and don’t know when of if it will get better
December 26th, 20096:37 pm
psg81 and ncgary yall stay positive yall will pull through
December 26th, 20096:38 pm
nolie,if you are still here, how do you feel about the Braves using Escobar as the leadoff hitter and putting McLouth down in the 5-6 hole? I know McLouth has more speed,but I think Yunel would be a better leadoff man because of his better OBP. Nate also has more power and might drive in more runs.
its sad here. 15% official unemployment everywhere around a 50 mile radius. real numbers are probably closer to 25%. most of the machining jobs have dried up
December 26th, 20096:41 pm
escobar has been great hitting with risp, im not nolie, but doesnt make sense to me with his track record.
December 26th, 20096:44 pm
Boy, Great Blog. If you say anything that the webmaster doesn’t like you get censored
December 26th, 20096:45 pm
i agree to an extent that nate should bat lower in the order. diaz if he is a starter might be best in leadoff role.
December 26th, 20096:48 pm
BillReef………..there are ways around the webmaster. Trust me, I know.
December 26th, 20096:49 pm
ncgary, as a general rule hitting with risp is not a repetitive skill,players might do well one year and not as well the next. I don’t disagree with your point about Diaz.
December 26th, 20096:50 pm
Ya same here its around 15%-17% unemployment I work in a machine shop and things are not looking good for the automotive industry.
December 26th, 20096:51 pm
just my opine, but i think escobar is gonna have a breakout year, power wize and average
December 26th, 20096:53 pm
Didn’t Escobar struggle in the leadoff role last year?
December 26th, 20096:54 pm
ncgary, I don’t think he will ever be a big home run hitter, his skill is more of a line drive,gap hitter. I think another good reason to use him as leadoff hitter.
December 26th, 20096:55 pm
Florida Gators coach Urban Meyer just resigned due to health reasons. Talk about a shocker!
December 26th, 20097:04 pm
i dont think hes gonna hit 25 homers either ,but 45 to 50 doubles is possible with up to 12 to 15 homers.325 average would be a breakout year to me
What’s up with Urban Meyer? DOB, anybody, got anything more on this?
December 26th, 20097:06 pm
I was thinking last night about a couple of years ago when we had a trade in place to get Brian Roberts and the owner of the Orioles nixed it at the eleventh hour. Sure would be nice if we had him.
December 26th, 20097:07 pm
“no immediate health concerns” but did it for “health and family” reasons he said.
December 26th, 20097:08 pm
I don’t like Escobar in the leadoff role. He hasnt been good at it. We should keep him around the 6 spot.
December 26th, 20097:09 pm
Chopdawg………..Meyer resigned due to health reasons. He said that after 24 years of neglecting his health, he is resigning to focus on his health, faith and family.
My first reaction is….BS. Dude is still a relatively young man. Do you really expect me to believe that he’s going to give all that up just to make sure he has enough time to do jumping jacks and fix little Johnny pancakes for breakfast?
Joe Paterno is 83 years old. He’ll probably die on the sidelines. Bobby Bowden had to be pushed to the side. Hell, Andy Reid (coach of the Philadelphia Eagles) only took a 6 week absence when both his sons ended up in the slammer for drugs.
December 26th, 20097:12 pm
they stated on the air that he has “no immediate health concerns.” I feel like something else is up too, but he also said that he intends to stay in Gainesville and be involved with UF.
December 26th, 20097:13 pm
mortality becomes a reality to almost everyone eventually paul,the man obviously isnt financially challenged, why not go out on your own terms
December 26th, 20097:14 pm
The Superhoo, he really hasn’t had a lot of at bats as a leadoff guy, but just my opinion he could be good at it if he was given a chance and is 100 percent for it himself.
December 26th, 20097:18 pm
Meyer might have realized there might be something more important to him than a football,wouldn’t be the first one to have that revelation.
Bring Me the Head of Francisco Cabrera
December 26th, 20097:26 pm
Nick Saban claims another victim!
December 26th, 20097:28 pm
Meyer is just scared of life without Teebow. Wussy!
Who do you guys think is are clean up hitter? Mac? Glaus at 5?
December 26th, 20097:33 pm
8. Church (o wait hes gone) Diaz
Don’t really like Prado at 1, but who else do you put there? I like McClouth better at something other than a 1.
December 26th, 20097:37 pm
Check out this video–cute stuff!
December 26th, 20097:38 pm
glaus is the cleanup hitter to start the season anway as long as he is healthy coming out of spring training.
i kinda like louth and prado leading off.though i can see what others are thinking.doesn’t matter all that much to me
December 26th, 20097:39 pm
I’m not a UF fan but I hope Coach Meyer is Ok with his health problem. I’m praying for him and family.
I hope the Braves keep Milkey Cabrera. Believe he will be a better player with the Braves than he was with Yankees.
CB……..there is nothing more important than sports to a sports fan. Given the divorce rate what it is….and with children in such a hurry to grow up and get out from under the average parent’s wing……..a sports fan favorite teams will be with them all their lives.
A couple of years ago, an ex girlfriend of mine asked me “what is more important, me or watching football”. I said “listen baby, I’ve been a football fan for 25 years (I started watching football when I was 10 years old). If you think that I’m going to go the next 40 years of my life (at the time, I had a weak moment and was contemplating settling down with this broad) without watching football when I want……..then you are out of your freaking mind”.
Needlesstosay, I wisely decided to end the relationship when it became apparent that she was going to be “one of those broads”.
Some of us are realistic enough to not get caught up in the “family and faith is more important” crap.
December 26th, 20097:41 pm
Yes Frank Wren has done a great job. If that is, his goal was to gut the team. Which by the way, it may indeed have been. Don’t forget that he answers to the corporation that owns the team. Corporations, unlike real owners, don’t care about fielding winning teams. They only, ONLY, care about the bottom line- the money and don’t you forget it.
So I encourage you to all do what I have done. Stop supporting this sham of a team.
Braves Fan No More
December 26th, 20097:42 pm
I stopped supporting this team many stupid moves ago.
December 26th, 20097:43 pm
Watching the moves (and non-moves) of the front office became like torture to me. It was like watching a train, full of your family and friends, wreck in slow motion/
December 26th, 20097:47 pm
Paul, thanks for sharing, have a good night.
December 26th, 20097:48 pm
McFann ur right cute video lol. Watched the whole thing. Now if people would just be that nice to each other we would have this world figured out
R.I.P., Vic Chesnutt. Very sad news. He was one of the good ones.
December 26th, 20097:50 pm
Braves Fan No More………..Given what he has to work with, I feel that Frank Wren has done a commendable job. After the 2010 season (when Bobby Cox will hopefully retire for real), then Frank Wren will be able to fully put together a team without worrying about them being one of “Bobby’s boys”.
While this year’s Braves wont have the crap that last year’s Braves had littering the roster (for instance: Jeff Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, Greg Norton, Jeff Bennent….all whom were Bobby’s boys)………I’m curious as to how Frank Wren shapes the 2011 Braves, when he will pretty much decide who the next manager will be.
December 26th, 20097:51 pm
CB….you have a good night too.
December 26th, 20097:57 pm
I’m out of here. I need to get to the USC-Boston College game. This will be my first football game at AT&T Park (seen plenty of baseball games there). I live about 5 minutes from the stadium.
December 26th, 20097:58 pm
McFann – love the video. That little guy was determined to jump onto that wall.
If you have time, watch this one – http://video.yahoo.com/network/100000089?v=4832100&l=100022574
We have gotten a lot of junk off of our team. Addition by subtractions all over the team.
December 26th, 20097:59 pm
I don’t know if anybody read the post last night, but at least one of Baseball America’s writers took Heywards #1 prospect designation away and moved him to second.
December 26th, 20098:00 pm
Realistic enough? Family and faith crap! Paul you couldn’t pay me what CC is making with NNY to believe the way you do. The broad probably told you where to go…I usually never reply, just read the blogs but you got a problem! The Team don’t give a damn about you but your family does, I hope.
December 26th, 20098:02 pm
Sorry DOB, didn’t is the word. I didn’t mean to cut at you, sorry, left the n’t off, just wanted to make that clear.
Sorry, not that way.
December 26th, 20098:03 pm
I believe it was Jim Duquette on MLB This Morning that said the only way the Braves could trade Lowe was to eat half the contract, and that portion by league rules would have tobe paid within 18 months. No wonder he’s still here.
As to Javvy, he wouldn’t go west of the Mississippi, which left one team willing to put up over a $10 million in salary. That’s why the deal with the Yanks.
December 26th, 20098:04 pm
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